highaltitude.log.20160115

[00:03] <mikestir> although you'll probably find you stand a better chance of accessing a ham repeater from the middle of nowhere than you do getting a phone signal, in the event that you have a break down or something
[00:03] <mbales_> worked for me over thanksgiving
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[00:12] <critcalmass> Yeah, it looks like we're stuck to 10mw transmission over here.
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[00:15] <mfa298> I found the 817/ts2000/fcd would pick up signals the rtlsdr couldn't, although it looks like the r820T2 is more sensitive so it's hopefully a closer match.
[00:17] <mfa298> as for accessing a repeater over getting a phone signal Im not sure how true that is now in some places. A lot of the local repeaters here have gone offline unfortunately. It's still a potentially useful communication source and I tend to carry my radio if I'm out walking as it's a 2nd communications medium.
[00:18] <mfa298> repeaters are only one of the options for talking to people on the radio
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[07:55] <SA6BSS-Mike> mfa298: I will (if I get the time) to point the yagi to a distabt beacon on 70cm and just do an eyeball comparison between a rtl and ts2000, have a sdrplay so maby that as well.
[07:57] <Vaizki> how are you finding the sdrplay? I am a bit annoyed with mine
[07:57] <Vaizki> maybe because I have no ham background
[08:00] <SA6BSS-Mike> using it mainly on hf, 80 40 30 and there its doing verry well
[08:00] <SA6BSS-Mike> have not played with it that much on uhf/vhf
[08:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> what sdr program are u using
[08:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> ?
[08:01] <Vaizki> sdrsharp and sdr console
[08:02] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok, for weak signal (beacon) monitoring hd sdr is to prefer, lot of signals vissible on that program that I never see on sdr# or sdr console
[08:02] <Vaizki> I mean it works fine with stronger signals but with weaker ones when I try to fiddle with the gain settings, IF selection et.. I feel like I can't accomplish anything
[08:03] <Vaizki> hmm
[08:05] <SA6BSS-Mike> Use zero IF , 1.536 MHz BW is a good start
[08:06] <Vaizki> I don't know if they have a good tutorial somewhere for example how to choose the best IF, how the LNA GR works etc
[08:06] <Vaizki> I have not seen one
[08:06] <SA6BSS-Mike> the creator recomend to use zero if
[08:06] <SA6BSS-Mike> hafe to jump shower
[08:06] <Vaizki> so why do they put in these other ones :D
[08:09] <Vaizki> and then they have setting like ADC sample rate. docs say "sets sampling frequency of the ADC"
[08:10] <Vaizki> so.. why would I use 2.00 if I can use 8.00.. there must be a downside and it's just not clear to me what that is
[08:13] <Vaizki> also broadcast somehow FM swamps airband on sdrplay, with airspy it's really really clean
[08:13] <Vaizki> ummm I pressed something to exchange 2 words.. :O
[08:20] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: my comp can't runt the 8 MS so 2 MS is good for me. :)
[08:21] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: and yes, a bit of lack of info how to use in the best way... i found this http://www.sdrplay.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=438
[08:21] <SM0ULC-Reb> maybe something..
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[08:24] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: did a comparison with wspr and shared antenna with an old R71E and can't say i saw much difference. but then I need more fiddling with the settings in sdrplay
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[08:25] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes I see the 8Mhz as one setting if u want a wide spectrum but it just hogs the computer and wont run well on older computers, always runnig the play with as litte bw as possible as I running alot of other programs as well,
[08:26] <Vaizki> well I did a comparison of our local airport tower on sdrplay and airspy.. which will demonstrate why I'm frustrated :)
[08:26] <Vaizki> http://i.imgur.com/6SsJfb4.png
[08:26] <Vaizki> http://i.imgur.com/R6OpFj1.png
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[08:27] <SA6BSS-Mike> utweaked the gain setting? up/down - probably down , and as well the change LO block
[08:27] <Vaizki> that's EFHK tower on sdrplay and airsp
[08:27] <SA6BSS-Mike> in sdr console u have lo block under "HOME" button
[08:28] <Vaizki> no this is sdrplay
[08:28] <SA6BSS-Mike> but u use sdr-console program
[08:28] <Vaizki> also.. was just easier to demo the difference in sdrsharp
[08:28] <Vaizki> this is using sdrplay defaults basically
[08:29] <Vaizki> and airspy defaults
[08:29] <SA6BSS-Mike> the u push extio and sellect LO in the extio
[08:30] <Vaizki> sorry still completely lost?
[08:30] <Vaizki> ok will open up sdr console
[08:30] <SM0ULC-Reb> SA6BSS-Mike: you mean LO instead of zerio-if ?
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[08:32] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: -21C here today. kinda chilly :)
[08:33] <SA6BSS-Mike> no, u can tweak the LO blocj conversion
[08:33] <Vaizki> you mean this LO Mode (Auto) setting?
[08:34] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes
[08:34] <Vaizki> has settings for Auto, 120MHz, 144MHz, 168MHz ..
[08:34] <SA6BSS-Mike> tune to airband channel and listen, change btween tose 4 setting and see if it gets better
[08:35] <Vaizki> well I still have FM broacast all over the airband
[08:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> u can do the same in sdr sharp
[08:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> the tweak gain reduction
[08:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> have to leave for work. l8er
[08:37] <Vaizki> ok well it looks better when I increase gain reduction (by moving the slider down, naturally!)
[08:38] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes, usuly about -40 orso
[08:38] <Vaizki> no no I'm at 72
[08:38] <Vaizki> when it starts to look better..
[08:38] <SA6BSS-Mike> if u have agood antenna u may have to go so low
[08:38] <Vaizki> the image I pasted is at -50dB
[08:39] <Vaizki> well it's a discone :)
[08:39] <Vaizki> so not a premium airband antenna by any means
[08:39] <SA6BSS-Mike> its good qute good, gl , have to run
[08:39] <Vaizki> ok thanks
[08:39] <Vaizki> helpful as always!
[08:40] <Vaizki> and SM0ULC-Reb, just -10 here.. like summer!
[08:40] <SM0ULC-Reb> mm, only have hf-antenna where my borrowed sdrplay is so can't test myself
[08:41] <Vaizki> actually it was warmer on christmas day (+11) than in midsummer (+10) last year
[08:41] <Vaizki> I remember because I cold smoked fish midsummer night and was monitoring the outside temp so that my smoker doesn't get too warm
[08:44] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: weird temps :)
[08:46] <Vaizki> indeed
[08:54] <AndyEsser> morning chaps and chapesses
[09:04] <gonzo__> I built a smoker recently. So recently that I've not managed to use it in anger
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[09:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03hkLo1 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hkLo1
[09:47] <critcalmass> Morning all :-)
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[09:54] <critcalmass> Just been looking at PCB printing. Am I missing something or are dirtypcbs.com offering 10 5x5 boards for 14USD?
[09:54] <eroomde> not missing anything
[09:54] <eroomde> the world has changed!
[09:54] <eroomde> quality is decent but might not be the absolute best
[09:55] <SpacenearUS> New position from 032E0EBR-4 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=2E0EBR-4
[09:55] <eroomde> there are quite a few chinese online fabrication services now, in which the price differences are onyl within a few dollars of each other
[09:55] <critcalmass> That'll do me! Plenty of backups in case I cock up the soldering :-)
[09:56] <eroomde> things to look for are minimum widths and spaces, drill hole sizes, the plating (enig is much nicer than hasl), whether or not you can get a stencil if you want a stencvil etc
[09:56] <eroomde> biut basically what a time to be alive
[09:56] <eroomde> (alive and cooped up in a dark electronics lab)
[09:57] <critcalmass> hehe
[09:57] <critcalmass> I'm alive and on sick leave with a bad back. Hence why my HAB project has had a lot of attention over the last week, and my microwave is now fixed.
[09:57] <fsphil> my lab (spare room) has a big window facing south. I keep the blinds closed.
[09:58] <eroomde> i have one facing east over the thames canal
[09:58] <eroomde> lovely sunrises
[09:58] <eroomde> (also spare room)
[09:58] <critcalmass> Nice
[09:58] <fsphil> very untidy at the moment
[09:58] <AndyEsser> critcalmass: I likely wouldn't use dirty pcb if it was mission critical - or safety of life :)
[09:58] <eroomde> i did much much less to it last night than the night before
[09:58] <AndyEsser> but for sending up on a HAB - should be fine
[09:58] <eroomde> i cable-tied the monitor cables to the loop provided by the monitor arm thing
[09:58] <Vaizki> critcalmass: regarding backups.. some pcb makers just send you a bunch of extras if they have space in the run...
[09:59] <Vaizki> so you order 5 and get 12 or something :)
[09:59] <eroomde> so now it looks like my monitor is pleasantly floating in free space infront of me
[09:59] <eroomde> as if by magic
[09:59] <critcalmass> AH, ok.
[09:59] <fsphil> hah
[09:59] <AndyEsser> eroomde: magic
[09:59] <critcalmass> Magic monitors :-)
[09:59] <Vaizki> eroomde: I have a G4 imac here with a magic monitor ;)
[09:59] <AndyEsser> still want to mount a decent size TV on my wall in my lab/office - but need to check with the landlord
[10:00] <Vaizki> I should actually sell it or use it for something
[10:00] <eroomde> yes
[10:00] <eroomde> put openbsd on it
[10:01] <critcalmass> I was thinking about putting miRC up on my 47" tv in the living room so I could carry on using the laptop for research etc.
[10:01] <eroomde> priorities
[10:01] <critcalmass> But I thought I'd miss the TV on on the background too much.
[10:01] <AndyEsser> lol
[10:01] <eroomde> ha
[10:01] <critcalmass> And then couldn't be arsed.
[10:01] <eroomde> i'm enjoying one bigger screen than two smaller atm
[10:02] <eroomde> i've had a pair of 24" monitors for ages but i'm getting on better with a single 2560x1440 one
[10:02] <AndyEsser> I've got 2x 24" here at work
[10:02] <AndyEsser> previous job had 4x 24"
[10:02] <AndyEsser> at home have a 24" + 27"
[10:02] <critcalmass> Yeah, I don't know if I prefer one big or two small. I have two reasonable sized ones in my home office. Could always go bigger though :-D
[10:03] <Vaizki> eroomde: but but but.. it has internet explorer now!
[10:03] <Vaizki> I have 2x27" here on my mac but one of them is shared with a win 8.1 pc.. uaaargh
[10:03] <critcalmass> I don't have a workshop. I have an unheated garage that I could pull my trailer out of and clear a workbench off a bit, but it's a bit damp and not ideal for delicate work.
[10:03] <eroomde> http://www.amazon.com/Dell-UltraSharp-34-Inch-LED-Lit-Monitor/dp/B00PXYRMPE
[10:04] <eroomde> i don't gots any windows at home but i might have to soon
[10:04] <eroomde> mechanical cad at home
[10:04] <Vaizki> I has it only for SDR...
[10:04] <AndyEsser> I'm not sure I could go to 1 monitor, even if that large
[10:04] <critcalmass> I have an annex, but we turned that into a bar/games/party room so the wife gets a bit miffed when I turn it into a workshop.
[10:04] <AndyEsser> I've turned my 3rd bedroom into lab/office
[10:04] <AndyEsser> it's a bit small though
[10:05] <AndyEsser> wondering if I move it into my 2nd bedroom, and somehow fit a double bed into the 3rd room
[10:05] <critcalmass> I'm a cyclist and it very quickly gets filled up with tools and old inner tubes :-D
[10:05] <Vaizki> my wife just thinks I'm weird when my man cave doesn't even have a fridge, just a bunch of servers and lab stuff :)
[10:05] <AndyEsser> critcalmass: I loved that at my last job - free cycle repairs/parts - just have someone else deal with it :)
[10:05] <Vaizki> well it's more of a workshop than a mancave/study
[10:05] <critcalmass> That's what I need, a man cave.
[10:05] <Vaizki> eroomde: what's the resolution on that 34"?
[10:06] <critcalmass> Maybe it's time to build a shed :-)
[10:06] <eroomde> yes i want my electronics and delicate test equipment to be somewhere dry and warm
[10:06] <eroomde> 3440 x 1440
[10:06] <Vaizki> and that runs over dp?
[10:06] <Vaizki> apparently because it's plug and play for Mac :)
[10:07] <eroomde> yes
[10:07] <eroomde> single dp
[10:07] <mfa298> you should also be able to run that resolution over HDMI.
[10:07] <AndyEsser> o god... the All Products pack from JetBrains looks so tempting...
[10:08] <mfa298> although I can't run my 28" 4k screen at full res at work as everything becomes unreadable.
[10:08] <gonzo__> under the new rules for permitted development, building lots of huge sheds/workshops is easy and planning permission free!
[10:08] <AndyEsser> There's a bunch of old workshop buildings just at the end of my road on the canal
[10:08] <AndyEsser> I keep meaning to go and check them out to find out about rent and stuff
[10:08] <eroomde> AndyEsser: don't they just do Java IDEs or something?
[10:08] <Vaizki> mfa298: umm my PC doesn't even manage to run 2560x1440 over HDMI?
[10:08] <AndyEsser> They have loads now
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[10:09] <eroomde> sounds like describing a particular brand of root canal treatment as tempting
[10:09] <gonzo__> you can cover up to 50% of the plot with outbuildings, and that 50% does not incluse the original house footprint
[10:09] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I use IntelliJ for my Java - but I've just downloaded their C/C++ IDE (I've yet to find one I like on linux) and it's quite nice
[10:09] <Vaizki> so maybe the cable is worthy of 3440x1440 but I'm not sure how many sources are?
[10:09] <AndyEsser> plus a bunch of Visual Studio and .NET plugins
[10:09] <eroomde> and ide for C
[10:09] <AndyEsser> and PyCharm, and a PHP tool
[10:09] <eroomde> blimey
[10:09] <eroomde> you will see the light one day
[10:09] <gonzo__> and below 30m^2 you are not even subject to building regs
[10:10] <mfa298> Vaizki: you might need a more recent version of HDMI, I can't remember what the various specs are now
[10:10] <AndyEsser> What's your issue with me wanting an environment rather than running everything through a text editor?
[10:10] <Vaizki> damn.. here we are allowed one shed of 5m2 or so.. rest requires permits which would not be given due to suqare footage being already used up
[10:10] <eroomde> all these different expensive tools for each language
[10:10] <Vaizki> square meters ..
[10:10] <eroomde> seems mad
[10:10] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I use ST on linux and build scripts for C/C++ and it works nice enough
[10:11] <AndyEsser> but if there's a decent IDE that doesn't cost much money - then I'm all for it
[10:11] <Vaizki> mfa298: well this pc is about 8 months old so :(
[10:11] <AndyEsser> and since the other bits in the package are useful to me as well
[10:11] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: Eclipse?
[10:11] <AndyEsser> didn't you yourself say PyCharm was nice?
[10:11] <AndyEsser> SM0ULC-Reb: don't swear at me
[10:11] <gonzo__> with the mud at the end of my bgarden, mine would be "suqare footage"
[10:11] <eroomde> fair enough. Just a shame when you know it's not necessary and could be flung at a PSU or something
[10:11] <eroomde> (the money)
[10:12] <eroomde> i have never said pycharm is nice, no
[10:12] <AndyEsser> eroomde: o no - I was going to convince work to buy it :)
[10:12] <eroomde> oic
[10:12] <AndyEsser> or if I do go freelance this year, I'll buy it myself - since it has a bunch of tools to help me with a variety of languages that I'd be using freelance
[10:14] <mfa298> Vaizki: wiki suggests you need hdmi 2.0 for decent 4k support (i.e. at a reasonable refresh rate) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4
[10:14] <gonzo__> toys againt tax
[10:14] <gonzo__> (sounds like a protesy cry!)
[10:14] <eroomde> of all the brilliant coders i've known (have known a few) none of them have used IDEs and gui tools that just make a makefile anyway and so on. That's why i 'know' they're not necessary, because the best stuff I've ever seen done with computers has been done without any of that
[10:14] <eroomde> *but*
[10:14] <AndyEsser> I know I don't _need_ an IDE
[10:14] <AndyEsser> but if it helps me be more productive, I don't see the issue
[10:14] <eroomde> these people were not working on 100,000,000 legacy codebases for tesco stock management or something where you need all the help with intelligent autocompletition that you can get
[10:14] <AndyEsser> heh
[10:14] <gonzo__> I only recently realised that when everyone here was talking IDE, thye were not refering to the HDD interface
[10:14] <AndyEsser> eroomde: it also stems from the fact that I've never spent the time to properly grok GDB
[10:15] <AndyEsser> which means my debugging options on Linux have been... printf()'s
[10:15] <AndyEsser> :)
[10:15] <AndyEsser> Scope arrives in the next hour :)
[10:15] <eroomde> it might make you more productive in the sense that an average american would say an automatic makes them more 'productive' that stick-shift. It lets you get to the shops and back without understanding as much, but that's about it.
[10:15] <eroomde> than*
[10:15] <eroomde> that's the issue i have
[10:15] <eroomde> a bit like arduino help here
[10:16] <eroomde> you can do the first 80% quicker, but when problems come up it just makes it harder to solve. This is in my experience. I have nop experience working on large java codebases tho.
[10:16] <AndyEsser> so... typically as a rule - I want to actually understand something that I use, I despise just grabbing a library, hooking into it, and voila
[10:16] <AndyEsser> however, this goes against the fact I have never bothered to learn GDB and Make
[10:16] <AndyEsser> which I need to do
[10:17] <eroomde> yes
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[10:17] <eroomde> embedded stuff might push you that way anyway
[10:17] <AndyEsser> indeed
[10:17] <AndyEsser> when I was doing low-level Pi stuff, and Android stuff
[10:17] <AndyEsser> it would've been quicker and invaluable to learn
[10:17] <eroomde> it's much easier to fit the entire mental model of the processor and the toolchain into your head
[10:17] <AndyEsser> rather than printf debugging
[10:18] <eroomde> i definitely don't mean the Pi
[10:18] <eroomde> i mean AVRs
[10:18] <AndyEsser> I know
[10:18] <gonzo__> the getenal attitude here seems to be 'it just works, don't worry/waste time asking why/how'
[10:18] <gonzo__> which seems to be a generic PC world attituide
[10:18] <AndyEsser> gonzo__: there's a guy in another channel that I sit in
[10:19] <AndyEsser> he annoys the hell out of me (but for mostly different reasons)
[10:19] <AndyEsser> but all he talks about is a new API he's found, or a new library
[10:19] <AndyEsser> and how he's integrating it
[10:19] <AndyEsser> but has _no_ idea what it's actually doing under the hood
[10:19] <gonzo__> I know that
[10:19] <eroomde> and the attitude i see here (in rocket research and what i saw at cambridge) was that genuinely good new things were made by starting from first principles and working from there, so that there were no mysterious black boxes. And i think that's worth applying basically to everything, be it a theorem or a rocket engine or a safety-critical bit of code for a machine or whatever
[10:20] <gonzo__> +1 ed
[10:20] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I got a fair bit of a reputation amongst parts of the Game Dev industry because of my love of "reinventing the wheel"
[10:20] <Vaizki> gonzo__: I think the attitude also stems from the fact that people come here saying they want to launch in 2 weeks, where can I buy an arduino Uno and does my balloon come with a rope and box attached..
[10:20] <gonzo__> but that attituide is getting me the reputation of being awkward and unreasonable
[10:20] <Vaizki> so they need to get a huge bunch of stuff done
[10:21] <gonzo__> yep, and at work that seems to be the same approach
[10:21] <Kryczek> AndyEsser: investigating under the hood is how John Carmack etc revolutionised Game Dev :)
[10:21] <Vaizki> gonzo__: oh you were talking about work :D
[10:21] <eroomde> i've said this before and then done nothing about it, but i think a guide to hab (as the motivating project) that starts with programming an avr is assembly, and then just learning about the linker, and debugging, and then builds from there, introducing makefiles, *then* c (pointers are simple if you know assembly!) and the compiler and so on, would be a useful thing
[10:22] <eroomde> then there are no mysteries
[10:22] <gonzo__> but if you use things you don't understand, rely on forums for all tech suppoirt (which in mu opinion are just the blind leading the blind). We would get a works where sw systems are flakey and frighteningly insecure
[10:22] <AndyEsser> building my game engine from scratch using pure C++ and OpenGL meant that when new platforms arrived (the Pi, the Ouya, etc) it took me typically less than 24 hours to get it running well on each
[10:22] <gonzo__> And who would tollerate a world like that
[10:22] <AndyEsser> meanwhile others are waiting for Unity to issue an update
[10:22] <AndyEsser> eroomde: :)
[10:22] <Vaizki> opengl pffft
[10:23] <AndyEsser> ¬¬
[10:23] <Vaizki> I have done fixed point matrix math and software 3d rendering in assembly.. :P
[10:23] <Vaizki> yes it was painful
[10:23] <AndyEsser> nice :)
[10:23] <eroomde> i will have a go at that
[10:23] <eroomde> yeah doing stuff in fixed point would be an interesting thing to cover
[10:23] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: how performant was it?
[10:23] <Vaizki> and then came the 3dfx voodoo and made it allll redundant :D
[10:23] <AndyEsser> ha
[10:23] <AndyEsser> we're going back 20 years then?
[10:23] <Vaizki> AndyEsser: well this was when hardware 3d was SGIs
[10:23] <gonzo__> the words are now coming facter than I can google them. I'm still battling to understand why C++ is a good idea
[10:23] <eroomde> converting from happy clappy scipy double precision stable IIRs to fixed-point-but-still-stable IIRs is a useful and interesting thing to know
[10:23] <Vaizki> yea 1994..
[10:24] <Vaizki> so 20 years
[10:24] <AndyEsser> gonzo__: in general? or for HAB?
[10:24] <gonzo__> general
[10:24] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: 3dfx. wow. long time ago :)
[10:24] <Vaizki> I still have a prototype 3dfx card...
[10:25] <Vaizki> was part of the developer program.. and we instantly knew this was the future
[10:25] <Kryczek> "modern OpenGL" seems to have returned to the spirit of ASM, with most of the stuff being processed by extremely-carefully written shaders rather than just glRotate etc
[10:26] <AndyEsser> Kryczek: that's been the case for a while
[10:26] <AndyEsser> it took OpenGL a long time to catch up to that
[10:26] <AndyEsser> but the entire pipeline is programmable via shaders now
[10:26] <eroomde> i can see why C++. In academia i saw some people do amazing things with c++, really really amazing. I think the objection to it is more that when a large group of people write something together with it, they all use it in their own way and with their own idioms, because it has no inherent style
[10:26] <AndyEsser> Fixed Function stuff is completely out
[10:26] <Kryczek> Vaizki: nice! do you have a photo?
[10:26] <eroomde> there's that saying about how C++ is an octopus made by nailing extra legs onto a dog
[10:26] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: I worked to the nation land survey at that time. Pretty hard to fins graphiccards that could do ok big big images. Can't remember the Finnish company that we bought stuff from..
[10:27] <eroomde> and i can see that
[10:28] <eroomde> but for example, in c++ vs c, there's obviously classes, but templates seem like a really nice and obvious way of, for example, making a linear algebra library where you don't know in advance what the dimensions of all the matrices are
[10:28] <Kryczek> AndyEsser: haha I know sorry... I was doing OpenGL stuff more than 10 years ago when nehe.gamedev.net was popular, then I had to choose between 3D and Information Security; chose the latter but I am more and more interested by the evolution of 3D :)
[10:28] <eroomde> and things like Eigen and TooN use exactly that property to make very succinct but fast code
[10:28] <SM0ULC-Reb> Vaizki: every workstation was about 100k euro.. now 5k euro.. :)
[10:29] <AndyEsser> Kryczek: I originally learnt on NeHe!
[10:29] <Kryczek> \o/
[10:29] <Vaizki> SM0ULC-Reb: bought what from finland? graphics cards? :O
[10:29] <Vaizki> Kryczek: I can see if I can find it..
[10:29] <Kryczek> Vaizki: thanks
[10:29] <AndyEsser> eroomde: Templates are nice, as long as they aren't abused
[10:30] <AndyEsser> They're good for the examples you suggeste
[10:30] <AndyEsser> and thinks like wrapping memory pointers etc
[10:30] <eroomde> they're lovely for the examples i suggested
[10:31] <eroomde> other c++ linear algebra libraries also do things which i think are horrifying, like having a go at doing dimensionally incompatible operations anyway
[10:31] <eroomde> instead of saying 'no, this isn't maths'
[10:31] <AndyEsser> heh
[10:31] <eroomde> they'll just keep multiplying until they run off the end of one of the two matrices and then give you the result
[10:31] <AndyEsser> I use GLM which is a matrix library geared around OpenGL and 3d graphics
[10:31] <eroomde> the idea of that!
[10:31] <AndyEsser> it's lovely
[10:32] <AndyEsser> eroomde: ewww
[10:34] <gonzo__> my objection to C++ is mainly that the people I see using is, don't understand it. When they create a new object, I ask what that is actually doing, and where/what is in memory and how is that managed, and how do you know it is safe. And I get a gormless look, 'you just do it, why do you care?'
[10:35] <gonzo__> it too an embedded eng who also does PC stuff to bridge the gap between the two camps
[10:35] <eroomde> it's dangerous in a language where you can blow your face off like c++, yep
[10:36] <eroomde> i sort of want to fully pretend there is no real computer underneath my happy perfect maths land (python, haskell) or fully doing trench warfare with C
[10:36] <eroomde> but c++ is great for numerics
[10:36] <Vaizki> Kryczek: can't seem to find the first proto which was a red board.. but I found one 3dfx card :)
[10:37] <gonzo__> there seems to be no value or even concept of integrity in the PC based stuff I see
[10:37] <Vaizki> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/367935/Photo%2015.1.2016%2012.31.19.jpg
[10:37] <Vaizki> not sure if this is a production model
[10:37] <gonzo__> and when fixes like, daily reboot to clean up mem leaks, is acceptable.....
[10:38] <Vaizki> well probably not production model, assembled in USA and it says USA on the chips too
[10:38] <gonzo__> https://xkcd.com/1495/
[10:38] <Vaizki> and some daughterboard connectors that probably are for debuggin
[10:40] <Kryczek> Vaizki: thanks :) dual screen though? I guess it was a later generation :)
[10:40] <gonzo__> (now I will go and sit in a darkened room and clam down)
[10:40] <Vaizki> note the AT&T dac.. :)
[10:40] <gonzo__> calm
[10:40] <Vaizki> no it was passthrough
[10:40] <Vaizki> don't you remember :)
[10:40] <Vaizki> voodoo boards didn't do 2D
[10:40] <Vaizki> so you passed the VGA signal from your normal VGA to voodoo and then to monitor
[10:40] <Kryczek> oh right! sorry I got confused by the two chips
[10:40] <Vaizki> so it would overlay directly
[10:41] <Kryczek> memories...
[10:41] <Flutterbat> there is a nice breakdown of the '90s gpu battle
[10:41] <Flutterbat> very interesting to read
[10:42] <Kryczek> Vaizki: now that you mention it, I remember in my school all the PCs had 3Dfx with the little VGA cable going from one card to the other, and... they all had the 3Dfx disabled because they didn't want us to play games :(
[10:43] <Kryczek> I asked if they could enable it so that I could try to write a 3D engine, they said something like "just write a 2D one and become famous like the Half Life guys!"
[10:43] <Vaizki> :D
[10:43] <Vaizki> nice
[10:44] <Vaizki> so ok that is a pre-production voodoo 1 board based on the chips
[10:45] <Kryczek> did you play Pod with the 3Dfx? :)
[10:47] <Kryczek> from what I remember it was one of the earliest games for it, it had 4 different executables for all combinations of with/without MMX and with/without 3Dfx :)
[10:48] <Vaizki> I'll post a pic of the red board also if I find it.. it had some bodge wires on it and was at least half hand-soldered
[10:50] <Kryczek> haha nice
[10:50] <Kryczek> Flutterbat: URL? :)
[10:51] <AndyEsser> SCOPE IS HERE!
[10:51] <AndyEsser> well... there's a parcel for me
[10:51] <AndyEsser> I'll be disappointed if it's my farnell order
[10:51] <AndyEsser> ha
[10:52] <eroomde> good luck
[10:52] <Vaizki> yea we played pod but it was a crap game.. :P
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[10:54] <Vaizki> it was pretty (at the time) but just another "learn the track by heart to win" game
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[10:56] <Kryczek> yes just for the pretty aspect :)
[10:56] <Vaizki> Kryczek: http://tdfx.de/pic/obsidian50_4220_07.JPG
[10:57] <Vaizki> my board is actually a Obsidian proto then
[10:57] <Vaizki> without the amethyst daughter board
[10:57] <Kryczek> what was the daughter board for?
[10:58] <Vaizki> an addional TMU to double the fillrate
[10:58] <Kryczek> oh sort of like they did later with the "monster 3D" setups?
[10:58] <Vaizki> texture memory + TMU -> filled textured triangles into framebuffer
[10:59] <Vaizki> I got out of the 3D stuff when these came out
[10:59] <Vaizki> went into telecoms :)
[10:59] <Vaizki> just have a (bad) habit of storing old crap
[11:00] <Kryczek> if you ever want to part with it I think that "crap" belongs in a museum :)
[11:03] <gonzo__> it's sad when you realise that half the stuff inj your shed comes into that catagory
[11:06] <Vaizki> I also have a Nokia 770 Internet Tablet prototype :D
[11:06] <Vaizki> and yes that's crap. it was crap when it was new and it's not getting better.
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[11:18] <redmi> Hello everybody. First thing, I want to thank you all for all the documentation around UKHAS. It is amazing.
[11:19] <redmi> I'm planning to send an engagement ring to the stratosphere (not so original though)
[11:20] <redmi> I was trying to figure out the best chasing radio for the lowest price as usual
[11:20] <RealBorg> sending it to the stratosphere is the easiest part
[11:20] <Vaizki> rtl-sdr is lowest price
[11:20] <RealBorg> filming and recovery are difficult
[11:20] <daveake> I suspect he knows that, which is why he's here
[11:20] <Vaizki> and certainly most bang for buck
[11:21] <redmi> I see, I think that I will go above the RTL-SDR
[11:22] <Vaizki> put upu's habamp (which is a filter and LNA) in front of a RTL-SDR then
[11:22] <redmi> Do you think that it is not worth then to go for the Fun dongle or a Yupiteru receiver?
[11:23] <AndyEsser> it was my scope :)
[11:23] <Vaizki> I'm not an expert but yes those are probably better.. you said lowest price :)
[11:24] <Vaizki> I would imagine that getting a LNA + filter would make a much bigger difference than going from RTL-SDR to FCD
[11:24] <redmi> Yes, of course. It is just that UKHAS tracking guide says that it is not intended for chasing
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[11:26] <daveake> SDRs in general are a bit clumsy to use when chasing
[11:26] <redmi> Ok, since I lack the knowledge about radio receiving I will explore the LNA + filter (I'm physicist, but definitely this is not something you learn during the grade)
[11:26] <Vaizki> well tbh RTL-SDRs are so cheap you should have one for bckup anyway.. but yes fiddly they are in a car
[11:27] <daveake> And yes they are so cheep get a couple
[11:27] <redmi> Yes, I'm planning to buy one just for fun :)
[11:27] <Vaizki> I have a FT-817ND (my son is a HAM) and of course it's nice with all the dials and audio out and whatnot..
[11:28] <daveake> and they are (I'm told - never used a cheap SDR in anger) about as good as a "real" radio if you add the HABAmp
[11:28] <daveake> I use an Airspy + HABAmp at base, and a scanner in the car
[11:28] <daveake> Also have an 817 in the car for when things get tricky, but that is a lot of cash
[11:28] <Vaizki> it's weird how few handheld radios have USB
[11:29] <Vaizki> for redmi, USB as in Upper Side Band, not the computer port
[11:29] <Darkside> well basically no transceivers (handheld) have it
[11:29] <Darkside> scanners, some do
[11:29] <redmi> Thank you Vaizki
[11:30] <redmi> Since I'm not planning to do radio transmitting, I think that I can stick with receivers
[11:30] <redmi> I have seen a Yupiteru MVT-7300 that ships to spain
[11:31] <redmi> The problem with MVT-7100 is that in ebay they only ship to UK
[11:32] <RealBorg> daveake, what do you mean by "tricky"?
[11:32] <redmi> But any other suggestion about chasing it will be very helpful, since the whole point is to recover the ring :P
[11:32] <Vaizki> whereabouts are you in spain btw?
[11:32] <AndyEsser> redmi: send a replica - not the real thing :P
[11:33] <AndyEsser> just in case
[11:33] <daveake> I mean, when the signal is too weak for the scanner
[11:33] <redmi> I'm in Granada (Andalucía)
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[11:33] <daveake> e.g. no roads close to payload; aerial flattened under the payload; payload in a ditch.
[11:34] <Vaizki> ah.. well that'll be tricky launching from there
[11:34] <redmi> But I plan to move to the center of Spain to avoid the payload flying over the sea
[11:34] <Vaizki> unless you have a boat.. :)
[11:34] <Vaizki> right
[11:34] <daveake> Lots of reasons the signal might be too weak to decode without a more sensitive radio and/or yagi
[11:34] <daveake> Rare though
[11:35] <redmi> I plan to mount a Yagi in top of the car
[11:35] <daveake> no need for that
[11:35] <daveake> Put a uni-directional aerial on the car
[11:35] <daveake> Take a yagi in case you need it, but just hand-hold
[11:35] <Vaizki> you also need an old ambulance and an Ecto-Containment unit?
[11:36] <AndyEsser> hehe
[11:37] <daveake> Yeah a couple of times I've looked at small trucks that have been fitted out for events ... power, sink, microwave, shelving, worktops, that sort of thing :)
[11:37] <redmi> Vaizki, only if I can put also loud speakers with the song xD
[11:37] <daveake> Probably going to end up with an RV for the USA eclipse next year :)
[11:37] <RealBorg> redmi, you could also plan to land in the sea
[11:37] <AndyEsser> daveake: I was eyeing those up - Ifor Williams type trailer used for Expos/Display Shows etc
[11:37] <AndyEsser> Mission Control trailer
[11:38] <daveake> yeah, £10k take your pick
[11:38] <AndyEsser> is that _all_?
[11:38] <AndyEsser> (appreciate that's a lot of money) but expected them to be like £50-60k
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[11:38] <daveake> I launch from home 90% of the time anyway, so I'll stick with my old 4x4
[11:38] <redmi> RealBorg, it is a possibility, but I would like to avoid it
[11:38] <daveake> yes £10k lots of choice
[11:38] <AndyEsser> daveake: I don't own a car - just hire when needed or get a company car if there's one available
[11:38] <daveake> not huge things
[11:38] <AndyEsser> Insignias aren't that great for fields ;)
[11:39] <daveake> Get a proper old 4x4
[11:39] <AndyEsser> Yea, would love one
[11:39] <daveake> I have a 97 Shogun LWB. £1,200 ~4 years ago
[11:39] <AndyEsser> nice
[11:40] <RealBorg> redmi, it has some advantages - little risk of hitting anything and nothing to shield the rf signal or prevent recovery
[11:40] <AndyEsser> lots of Land Rover Defenders in the area here...
[11:40] <daveake> Nice to have some old piece of rust that you don't mind messing around with
[11:40] <AndyEsser> £400 Shogun....
[11:40] <AndyEsser> 97
[11:40] <daveake> I checked autotrader last week and it doesn't seem to have fallen in value
[11:40] <daveake> working one ?
[11:41] <AndyEsser> just about to check
[11:41] <AndyEsser> it's LPG though
[11:41] <daveake> that's fine if done properly
[11:41] <gonzo__> lpg is ok, if you have somewhere to fill
[11:41] <daveake> Mine is V6 petrol. They seem to have fewer faults than the TDs
[11:41] <redmi> RealBorg, we have a 4x4 but not a boat, so although it would be much safer, it is out of reach I think
[11:41] <AndyEsser> daveake: doesn't say it's not working or for parts
[11:41] <gonzo__> I ran gas for about 10yrs
[11:41] <AndyEsser> daveake: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201502251226968?model=shogun&radius=25&page=1&postcode=CH1%204JX&sort=default&make=mitsubishi&search-target=usedcars&onesearchad=used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew&logcode=p
[11:42] <AndyEsser> or a 98 for £950
[11:42] <daveake> "Next MOT due 14/08/2015"
[11:42] <AndyEsser> hmm, might have to think serously about this
[11:42] <Vaizki> :D
[11:42] <AndyEsser> daveake: might be an old ad ;)
[11:42] <gonzo__> though after running lpg, you wince at having to put petrol in.
[11:42] <daveake> Suspect that's been sat there for a while :/
[11:42] <Vaizki> andy's equipment list grows :D
[11:42] <daveake> Been resprayed
[11:42] <daveake> No spare tyre
[11:43] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: tbh it's about time I brought a car again
[11:43] <daveake> Cheap tho
[11:43] <redmi> well, anyone is interested in selling or knows where to buy Yupiteru MVT-7100 or similar?
[11:43] <AndyEsser> although parking that on my street would be.... interesting
[11:43] <daveake> Not selling; it's a good radio. They do come up on ebay a lot.
[11:43] <Vaizki> redmi: there must be a ham club in Malaga? why not ask them?
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[11:43] <AndyEsser> daveake: https://goo.gl/epj5Nm
[11:43] <AndyEsser> challenge accepted :)
[11:43] <RealBorg> redmi, you could charter a boat
[11:44] <Vaizki> oh ffs..
[11:44] <Vaizki> have you sailed the med?
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[11:45] <eroomde> RealBorg: please stop making stupid suggestions to new people in this channel
[11:45] <eroomde> one warning only
[11:46] <redmi> RealBorg, with the Fun Dongle and all the pricey stuff (Fun cube dongle, Habduino, Totex + parachute, Yagi and Helium) it is over 600 euros (456 pounds), I'm trying to lowering the budget, not rising it xD
[11:46] <gonzo__> but half of that is the groundsataion, which you jget to keep
[11:47] <kokey> I'm keen on cheap pico projects
[11:47] <kokey> because I'm less likely to keep anything there
[11:48] <redmi> Vaizki, this is another thing I want to do. But I'm afraid that HAM clubs are not so interested in SSB (USB) at 434 MHz. But I denfinitely have to chek it out
[11:49] <redmi> kokey, can you explain on that?
[11:50] <redmi> gonzo__, then what do you suggest?
[11:51] <gonzo__> RTL+habamp, or FCDp+, or scanner (that will do SSB)
[11:51] <gonzo__> or see if you can get the local AR club interested,. And get them todo the receiving side
[11:52] <gonzo__> but if you buy your own groundstation kit, you can always sell it if this is a one-off launch.
[11:54] <eroomde> other hams are definitely useful and will almost certainly be interested in a balloon flight (it's quite a fun novel thing to listen to!) but i'd always plan for, and assume, that you're the only listener and tracker, and that way you won't be let down
[11:54] <eroomde> and any outside interested and help tracking is merely a nice bonus
[11:56] <redmi> eroomde, definitely, I would consider the help in tracking a nice bonus
[11:59] <kokey> redmi: where are you exactly?
[11:59] <gonzo__> and it helps to have someone who knows their RX kit and can concentrate on that whilst you are doing all the fill/launch stuff
[11:59] <kokey> I left my Yupiteru in cape town, hopefully it's at a good home
[11:59] <redmi> kokey, in Granada, Andalucía
[11:59] <kokey> redmi: ah, right, I've been there a few times
[11:59] <kokey> I can probably track down a whole bunch of radio geeks in Gibraltar for sure
[12:00] <redmi> kokey, radio geeks are always welcome xD
[12:00] <kokey> friend of mine consulted to the broadcast regulator there for a while and worked as an RF engineer
[12:00] <kokey> might know some people up the coast towards Malaga too
[12:01] <kokey> but winds will probably blow you away from there, not towards there
[12:02] <Vaizki> redmi: I just mean ask them if they know where to get a yupiteru or if the members have one around.. they are probably grumpy old farts who will tell you to f* off but hey nothing ventured nothing gained :)
[12:02] <kokey> there's a lot of scanners out there that aren't being used, you just have to prod people to make them remember they have one that they could probably part with
[12:02] <redmi> Vaizki, I share your spirit :) I will try
[12:03] <kokey> AOR scanners will also do
[12:03] <redmi> Yes, but second hand were really pricey. This is why I focused on Yupitery
[12:04] <kokey> personally what I would do is start out with an rtl-sdr stick until you have your flight computer and gps and everything working and then worry about a better receiver
[12:05] <redmi> kokey, this is definitely a good advice. But for me the radio thing is the difficult one
[12:06] <redmi> I'm familiar with arduino and since I'm working at the University I will be able to address everything else. However, the radio chasing seems to me very specific regarding the necessities of the balloon chasing
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[12:11] <Hix> Hello and HNY folks. Just watched this video https://www.facebook.com/ScienceChannel/videos/10153516613077917/
[12:11] <RealBorg> redmi, have you checked the legal status in spain?
[12:12] <Hix> made me think of doing a launch. I'm into field recording and thought that it would be quite cool to record a HAB flight. Anyone ever recorded audio (other than GoPro)?
[12:12] <redmi> RealBorg, well, not really. Since 434 MHz is allowed in all Europe I was counting on that
[12:13] <eroomde> re: powering Pi's, whoever it was that i asked here, I found the low-down on the rpi hat design guide
[12:13] <eroomde> https://github.com/raspberrypi/hats/blob/master/designguide.md
[12:13] <eroomde> 1.3A min, 2A recommended
[12:13] <AndyEsser> eroomde: was then when you were asking the other week about a PSU for it?
[12:13] <RealBorg> redmi, of launching a stratosphere balloon
[12:14] <redmi> RealBorg, Oh, yes, there were some preceding launchs from institutes
[12:14] <eroomde> AndyEsser: i think so
[12:14] <redmi> they explain how to ask for permission
[12:15] <RealBorg> redmi, great, i hope you wont mind telling us whats required in spain when you know
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[12:16] <Vaizki> Put it in the wiki
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[12:17] <redmi> Vaizki, definitely I will put it in the wiki, but maybe it is better to wait until I ask, in case that they have changed something
[12:19] <redmi> As far as I learned, you ask permission to AENA (the public agency about plane traffic) and they ask you day and predicted path, after they allow you the launch, you need to contact them the day just in case they need to change something and Notice to Airmen
[12:20] <redmi> It is supposed to be solved in one month
[12:20] <RealBorg> redmi, sounds great
[12:20] <RealBorg> no HABing in my country due to legal issues :-(
[12:21] <redmi> RealBorg, that's a pity. Which country, by the way?
[12:21] <RealBorg> austria
[12:22] <RealBorg> i used to live in spain for some time years
[12:23] <redmi> Wow, but if you look at the http://tracker.habhub.org/ there are lots of balloons passing through Austria
[12:23] <redmi> maybe not lots, but not zero xD
[12:24] <redmi> one right now, in fact
[12:24] <RealBorg> redmi, not much they can do about baloons floating over the border
[12:25] <nick_> They could pop them with a very long stick.
[12:25] <RealBorg> neighboring switzerland is very liberal (dangerously liberal in my opinion) and does not even require a premission / notification
[12:26] <redmi> Ok then, I will focus on contacting with HAM clubs and I will ask also if anyone in my University have something. My fallback plan is the FCDp+
[12:26] <RealBorg> I think it is too cold for the eurofighters to be launched
[12:26] <RealBorg> and i don't know how many of the old saab draken are still operational
[12:27] <murb> well swiss air defence doesn't operate outside standard office hours ;)
[12:27] <murb> they have night and weekend cover from franch.
[12:28] <redmi> xD
[12:28] <nick_> The Swiss have a great attitude towards the military.
[12:28] <AndyEsser> nick_: Monday-Friday 9-5 :)
[12:28] <redmi> How much envy of so much balloons over UK
[12:28] <nick_> They have a huge militia, but very little standing forces.
[12:29] <AndyEsser> nick_: and the militia is well trained and organised
[12:29] <daveake> Problem with the UK is it's small and surrounded by water
[12:29] <nick_> If all you really care about is defence then it has an amazing ratio of effectiveness / cost.
[12:29] <AndyEsser> daveake: that's a problem?
[12:29] <daveake> It is if you want your payload back, yes
[12:30] <RealBorg> eroomde, would you please either mind your manners or explain why it is so bad to land in water (if you plan for it)
[12:30] <redmi> yes, Spain is easier in that sense. Probably will land in somewhere where they speak the same language as you
[12:30] <AndyEsser> daveake: redefines *floater*
[12:30] <daveake> yeah more than 1 way to float :-). I prefer the drier version
[12:31] <AndyEsser> Right - lunch time - then to find something to hook my Scope up to :)
[12:31] <gonzo__> the swiss don't need an army, when everyone has a rifle and they have everyones money
[12:31] <nick_> I've got an I2C bus in another town I'd like a scope attached to if possible.
[12:32] <nick_> The chip I'm trying to talk to isn't acknowledging me. Then again, it's possible that the FPGA isn't controlling the bus as it should.
[12:33] <nick_> gonzo__: it's important in that statement that everyone (really most males, no everyone) has a rifle because they are in the militia.
[12:34] <gonzo__> I understand that women and older men are encouraged to join
[12:36] <nick_> From what I could tell when I was there people don't really chose to join.
[12:36] <gonzo__> and as said, well trained
[12:36] <nick_> Those that can get out of the national service.
[12:37] <nick_> It's following the general trend of reducing time and numbers.
[12:37] <nick_> Which I think is bad, but I couldn't vote there.
[12:39] <redmi> nick_, anyway they keep the rifles in shelters. Because there were too much wife murders. Not joke.
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[12:39] <gonzo__> I've only ever visited
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[12:40] <nick_> While I was living there they were campaigning hard about the rifles being kept at home. The main claim being it was a problem for people committing suicide.
[12:40] <nick_> I was under the impression that very few used their service rifle for crimes.
[12:40] <redmi> Yes, not for crimes of robbing stuff
[12:40] <murb> nick_: there have been a few mass shootings where they have.
[12:40] <nick_> Of course, "very few" can also be "too much"
[12:41] <redmi> But they told me about suicides and wife murdering
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[12:41] <murb> so yeah .ch has relatively high rates of gun crime
[12:41] <murb> compared to say the uk, where firearms are much less readily avalible.
[12:42] <nick_> murb: I was aware of that, though I thought it was usually personally owned weapons (which are quite easily available) rather than service ones.
[12:42] <gonzo__> a quick look at the stats, the swiss have 4x the number of murders (shootings) than the UK. Which is still not bad given the number of guns that have
[12:42] <nick_> I almost bought a rifle while I was there.
[12:42] <nick_> But I was too lazy :(
[12:43] <gb73d> [12:42] <gb73d> https://t.co/QkstWgXpFK
[12:43] <gb73d> [12:42] <gb73d> watching tim peake spacewalk nasa tv now
[12:43] <gonzo__> recent stast for the UK,. there are 1.8M legally held guns at the mo. That is one for every 20 adults.
[12:43] <murb> gonzo__: uk includes northern ireland, which doesn't have a handgun ban etc.
[12:43] <nick_> I tried (but failed) to find out at some point recently how the gun ownership rate compares between CH and US.
[12:44] <nick_> It's hard though, the stats are all pretty much number of guns and number of people, not taking into account how many guns each person may own.
[12:44] <murb> gb73d: which channel?
[12:45] <daveake> Best is the youtube live nasa channel
[12:45] <murb> daveake: can't i'm in germany.
[12:45] <daveake> The ustream one is usually ubroke
[12:45] <daveake> Just search on yt for "live nasa stream"
[12:46] <gonzo__> I doubt the handgun in NI has much effect on the figures
[12:46] <gonzo__> hehe, US has 50x the gun murder rate of UK
[12:46] <daveake> yeah, they should have more guns
[12:47] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RPF-A1 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-A1
[12:47] <gonzo__> but as nick_ says, the figures are guns/people
[12:48] <gonzo__> if yiou increased the guns in the US would it start to go exponention ?
[12:48] <gonzo__> exponential
[12:52] <redmi> SpacenearUS, congratulations.
[12:53] <lz1dev> redmi: thats a bot
[12:54] <redmi> lz1dev, I was suspecting it, but anyway congratulations xD
[12:56] <redmi> Anyone knows about the hkLo1???
[12:59] <Vaizki> AndyEsser: here's something for you to catch http://amsat-uk.org/2016/01/11/iss-sstv-activity-january/
[12:59] <Vaizki> good practise :)
[13:00] <murb> seems the sky news stream works, but sadly got mostly sky audio :(
[13:00] <gb73d> what mode is the sstv from the iss?
[13:00] <Vaizki> sstv mode.. on fm
[13:01] <gb73d> yeah but martin or what ?
[13:02] <Vaizki> oh hmm they just say PD120..
[13:03] <Vaizki> there's a sample recording on http://amsat-uk.org/beginners/iss-sstv/ to get set up in advance
[13:03] <gb73d> tyvm
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[13:05] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: cheers - sorry was grabbing lunch
[13:05] <Vaizki> how dare you :O
[13:05] <AndyEsser> I know... :(
[13:05] <AndyEsser> :P
[13:06] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: so just tune SDR# to 145.800MHZ FM with a bandwiddth of 5kHz and pump the output into... something?
[13:07] <AndyEsser> o wait...
[13:07] <AndyEsser> I'll be in Oxford tomorrow at that time
[13:10] <Vaizki> yes that's about it
[13:12] <Vaizki> http://hamsoft.ca/pages/mmsstv.php
[13:12] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: already have the page open :) thanks
[13:15] <AndyEsser> heh, brother just phoned me "Is there a live feed of the station? I want to watch an EVA that's going on"
[13:15] <Vaizki> so each image is 126 seconds.. but the ISS moves at over 7km/s in orbit.. 90 minutes to go 'round the world
[13:15] <AndyEsser> :)
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[13:16] <Vaizki> so you can catch a few images when it passes
[13:16] <AndyEsser> 3 minute gap between each one though isn't there?
[13:18] <Vaizki> can't remember..
[13:18] <daveake> live tv from one of the astronauts; nice
[13:18] <AndyEsser> "with a 3-minute off time between each image"
[13:18] <AndyEsser> daveake: yea :)
[13:18] <daveake> wasn't expecting that
[13:19] <daveake> do you know which tim it's from ?
[13:19] <AndyEsser> current is Tim Cupra
[13:19] <daveake> ok
[13:19] <AndyEsser> Tim Peake's isn't powered up yet apparently
[13:19] <AndyEsser> 17 is Cupra
[13:19] <AndyEsser> 20 is Peake
[13:19] <Vaizki> looks like an aliens movie
[13:19] <daveake> yeah they just said
[13:19] <AndyEsser> if you can see the numbers
[13:19] <AndyEsser> daveake: :)
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[13:19] <AndyEsser> Yea, I don't know this stuff off by heart - I'd just heard it
[13:19] <AndyEsser> hehe
[13:20] <daveake> ok I think my stream is a few seconds later than yours
[13:20] <AndyEsser> OMG HE LET GO
[13:20] <daveake> hah
[13:20] <AndyEsser> :P
[13:21] <AndyEsser> haha
[13:21] <AndyEsser> all this fancy tech
[13:21] <AndyEsser> and having to use a mirror to look for an led
[13:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03gti_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=gti_chase
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[13:26] Nick change: luteijn_ -> luteijn
[13:26] <eroomde> linky to feed?
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[13:27] <Vaizki> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/#public
[13:28] <Vaizki> http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/harmonic_ds_nasa_tv_uhd.pdf
[13:28] <Vaizki> whoa
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[13:29] <Vaizki> damn.. north american footprint only
[13:33] Action: AndyEsser digs out scope instruction manual
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[13:34] <AndyEsser> ooo, free DMM
[13:35] <Vaizki> !
[13:35] <Vaizki> I'm not sure if my rigol even came with a manual
[13:36] <AndyEsser> 2nd hand?
[13:37] <Vaizki> no.. it's new.. probably it did.. I may have thrown it into the Great Manual Pit of Moolok
[13:38] <Vaizki> didn't read it that's for sure :)
[13:38] <AndyEsser> heh
[13:38] <AndyEsser> I just wanted to check there wasn't something special I had to do before first time powering it, for calibration or anything
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[13:40] Action: AndyEsser looks around for headphone cable to butcher
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[13:45] Action: Kryczek hides his headphones
[13:45] <AndyEsser> heh
[13:45] <Kryczek> ^^
[13:45] <AndyEsser> End of my lunch anyway :(
[13:46] <Kryczek> headphone cables are not good for your diet
[13:46] <AndyEsser> lol
[13:47] <eroomde> scopes generally aren't calibrated
[13:47] <eroomde> i.e. they're not precise
[13:47] <eroomde> the time base should be goodish
[13:47] <eroomde> but if you want good-good you probably want to feed it with an external ref
[13:47] <eroomde> the 1054 probably has a 10MHz external ref input BNC on the back?
[13:48] <AndyEsser> two secs
[13:48] <AndyEsser> it does have something I spotted
[13:48] <Vaizki> I don't think so
[13:48] <AndyEsser> Trigger Out/Pass/Fail
[13:48] <eroomde> they're alright as basic voltage level measures but again better to have a dmm
[13:48] <eroomde> oooh pass-fail
[13:48] <eroomde> nice
[13:48] <Vaizki> yea it does masks
[13:48] <AndyEsser> the whole unit is so pwetty
[13:49] Action: AndyEsser is slightly aroused
[13:49] <eroomde> it's a wonderful scope
[13:49] <eroomde> you will not regret your purchase
[13:50] <AndyEsser> :)
[13:50] <AndyEsser> I want a PSU that looks like this
[13:50] <AndyEsser> ha
[13:51] <eroomde> rigol do do PSUs
[13:51] <AndyEsser> hehe... dodo
[13:51] <eroomde> but honestly, a 2nd hand hp is the best money you'll spend
[13:51] <AndyEsser> :)
[13:52] <eroomde> it's quite easy to spend more on the psu than the scope btw
[13:52] <eroomde> just forewarning
[13:52] <AndyEsser> heh
[13:52] <AndyEsser> I might have to hold off big purchases for a bit ;)
[13:53] <eroomde> aye
[13:53] <AndyEsser> http://www.rigolna.com/products/dc-power-supplies/dp800/dp831/
[13:53] <eroomde> trick with home labs is to play the long game and keep an eye out for deals
[13:53] <eroomde> ebay is your friend
[13:54] <AndyEsser> yea
[13:54] <Vaizki> hp/agilent and thurlby/tti at least are very good psus that I have run across
[13:54] <eroomde> yeah, thurlby stuff is great
[13:54] <Vaizki> siglent.. not so much
[13:54] <eroomde> i think the old farnell tops one were tti rebadges
[13:55] <eroomde> no avoid siglent and tenma if poss
[13:56] <eroomde> actually i love my hameg psu
[13:56] <eroomde> my favourite
[13:56] <AndyEsser> hameg and chips
[13:56] <eroomde> but they're not really floating around the 2nd hand market
[13:56] <Miek> got a tti here, hp in the hackerspace - both great
[13:57] <Vaizki> I have a hameg "mainframe" with bench dmm and 10MHz siggen.. it's pretty mediocre :P
[13:57] <eroomde> i have a new psu of theirs
[13:57] <eroomde> 0-32V 2A x 2, 0-5V
[13:57] <eroomde> and the really nice 50kHz bw amplifier feature
[13:58] <Vaizki> ah. I have one of those but on a hameg badged, some cheapo..
[13:58] <eroomde> serial interface is really simple but powerful too
[13:58] <eroomde> and it can load
[13:58] <Vaizki> it's one of the most common designs now I guess. dual adjustable outputs 0-32/2A or 0-20/5A and then fixed 5V output
[13:58] <eroomde> yep
[13:58] <Vaizki> weighs a ton of course
[13:59] <eroomde> bipolar for the analog section and a supply for the digital section
[13:59] <eroomde> take note that's what you want AndyEsser
[13:59] <eroomde> you want 2x 0-20+ V sections
[13:59] <eroomde> that lets you do, say, + and - 15V rails for op-amps and so on
[13:59] <eroomde> and then a low voltage output for the digital stuff
[14:00] <eroomde> http://www.hameg.com/h008_hm8143.0.html?&no_cache=1&L=o%252522%252520onfocus%25253D%252522blurLink%28this%29%3B
[14:00] <eroomde> external modulation input - the bees knees for measuring transfer functions of motors and stuff
[14:00] <Vaizki> but that's not cheap
[14:00] <eroomde> generate a little sinewave with a siggen and have the psu interface that to haul a dc motor around
[14:01] <eroomde> no, and i def didn't pay list prices for it :)
[14:01] <eroomde> and it can act as a load which is nice for testing things
[14:01] <gb73dx> tims npt doing badly for a newbie to space and eva
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[14:03] <Vaizki> well that is a nice psu yes.. damn
[14:03] <gonzo__> it sounds really odd hearing a british accent on the comm
[14:04] <AndyEsser> ha yea
[14:04] <AndyEsser> I want an astronaut from like... East London
[14:04] <AndyEsser> that'd be amusing to hear
[14:04] <gonzo__> naffink
[14:04] <murb> now a scouser would be for the best.
[14:05] <AndyEsser> heh
[14:05] <gonzo__> find the iss up on bricks
[14:05] <AndyEsser> hahahaha
[14:05] <eroomde> i was about to make a hub-cap joke
[14:05] <nick_> When the LHC started up the first time there was a lot of talk from Lyn Evans, who has a good Welsh accent.
[14:05] <eroomde> too slow
[14:05] <gonzo__> broard yorkshire
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[14:05] <eroomde> nick_: i presume you've seen 'Particle Fever'?
[14:05] <nick_> No, what is that?
[14:06] <eroomde> it's a documentary about LHC that i enjoyed
[14:06] <Vaizki> eroomde: any experience with this "Array" brand stuff?
[14:06] <eroomde> more about the story of it as an experiment rather than the physics
[14:06] <gonzo__> (the us distributers wanted nick parks to re-dub the wallice and gromit stuff, as the US market would hav etrouble with the accent)
[14:06] <eroomde> from comissioning through to higgs announcement
[14:06] <eroomde> very nicely made
[14:06] <eroomde> Vaizki: nope
[14:07] <eroomde> nick_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_Fever
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[14:08] <nick_> I go out of my way to avoid most media about particle physics.
[14:08] <eroomde> they're quite good about allowing physicists to do the talking and making zero reference to 'the god particle'
[14:08] <AndyEsser> someone did the screw up too tight
[14:11] <gonzo__> it's such a slow process. I'd hate to have to do a clutch job on the ISS !
[14:11] <AndyEsser> my god that crew bag looks frustrating
[14:12] <nick_> eroomde: with these sorts of things it could be quite different depending on which of the physicists you let do the talking...
[14:12] <gonzo__> they did say 36ftlb earlier. Must have been misinderstood as he only tries 20 initially
[14:15] <eroomde> nick_: a lot of it was some youngish iranian-canadian professor at princeton
[14:15] <eroomde> with long hair but balding
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[14:15] <eroomde> he had lots to say
[14:19] <AndyEsser> hmm, regulators haven't arrived yet :(
[14:29] <daveake> Ask Tim Peake to send one down to you
[14:29] <daveake> It might though be the wrong type, a bit heavy, and not working
[14:30] <AndyEsser> hehe
[14:31] <gonzo__> cheap shipping, he just has to push it away from the iss at the right time
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[14:37] <Hix> I think it would arrive in worse condition than if MyHermes delivered it though
[14:39] <daveake> difficult
[14:39] <daveake> but yeah, probably worse condition and less accurately
[14:39] <daveake> hard as that is to believe
[14:39] <adamgreig> be a heck of a push
[14:39] <adamgreig> reckon you can throw a regulator at 8km/s?
[14:40] <daveake> now you're using science
[14:41] <gonzo__> surely any impulse that starts it spiralling down will get it into a low enough orblit that it will eventually get drag?
[14:41] <gonzo__> or would it go into an eliptic orbot?
[14:42] <adamgreig> it would be in the same orbit as the ISS, plus/minus whatever delta-v he could impart by throwing
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[14:43] <adamgreig> even the ISS suffers from drag, so over time it would burn up and re-enter, sure
[14:43] <adamgreig> but if you wanted to actually throw it down to 'earth' below you would need to chuck it behind you at about 8km/s :p
[14:44] <gonzo__> if you gace something in a circular orbit an impulse towards the earth, i assume it woudl go into an eliptic orbit around the earth
[14:44] <adamgreig> yea
[14:44] <adamgreig> a typical throw towards earth isn't going to shift your orbit much though ;)
[14:44] <gonzo__> pushing it back would slow it anmd cause it's orbit to drop into a lower alt?
[14:44] <adamgreig> yea
[14:45] <adamgreig> throwing it towards earth gives it a lower perigee but since it's still going orbital velocity around the earth, it ends up with a higher apogee and thus eliptical orbit
[14:45] <adamgreig> if you throw it behind you, it remains circular but with a lower altitude
[14:45] <gonzo__> so really it needs continial force/drag to get it to deprbit
[14:45] <adamgreig> if you throw it behind you at 8km/s it loses all velocity in the orbit direction and just falls towards earth in a straight line
[14:46] <adamgreig> an impulse will do it, if it's big enough
[14:46] <adamgreig> elliptical orbits eventually have a perigee equal to the earth's radius
[14:46] <adamgreig> at which point you 'land' ;)
[14:46] <adamgreig> and realistically if the perigee is within the upper atmosphere you'll quickly have so much drag that you also deorbit
[14:47] <gonzo__> but playing netwon's third ovature in Dminor, would cause the iss some issues!
[14:48] <adamgreig> I imagine so :P
[14:48] <gonzo__> is that all eliptical, or is that just ones that experience drag?
[14:49] <adamgreig> circular orbits are just a very rare elliptical orbit where apogee and perigee are equal
[14:49] <adamgreig> you don't need drag for elliptical orbits
[14:49] <redmi> RealBorg, luckily I have a friend in UK and I bid for a Yupiteru MVT-7100 on ebay that only sends to UK :S, figers crossed :)
[14:49] <redmi> fingers
[14:50] <gonzo__> I meant that your saying that all eliptical orbits will evenulally land, or just ones where they are decaking die to drag?
[14:50] <AndyEsser> would it count as international shipping? :)
[14:50] <gonzo__> decaying due to drag
[14:50] <adamgreig> oh
[14:51] <adamgreig> only orbits where the perigee (closest point) is within the atmosphere (or inside the earth itself)
[14:51] <adamgreig> if the perigee is less than earth radius, then you'll impact earth (at high velocity!) before you complete another orbit
[14:51] <gonzo__> they chatge VAT on shipping too. Could get exopensive if thet count the outwards bound trip!
[14:51] <adamgreig> if the perigee is just skimming the top of the atmosphere, you'll suffer drag around that point, which will lower your apogee, and lead to eventual deorbit
[14:51] <gonzo__> ok, adamgreig, I misread
[14:52] <adamgreig> if your perigee is well within the atmosphere, you'll probably have enough drag that you land this time around too, but slower
[14:52] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: I'm unsure if it's a good or bad thing that the reason I understand what you're saying is because of Kerbal Space Program...
[14:52] <adamgreig> haha
[14:52] <gonzo__> is he still on that same bolt!
[14:52] <adamgreig> KSP is great
[14:52] <AndyEsser> It is :)
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[14:53] <AndyEsser> Helped me understand Apoapsis/Periapsis and understand why you'd want to throw the item behind you, not just straight down to earth etc
[14:54] <AndyEsser> Love the Misson Control desk has a toy Yoda on the top :)
[14:56] <RealBorg> is that a coincidence or did disney pay to have it strategically placed
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[14:59] <Laurenceb_> if you threw something towards earth it wouldnt spiral
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[15:00] <Laurenceb_> you would just make the orbit slightly elliptical
[15:00] <adamgreig> yes
[15:00] <adamgreig> well, from the ISS it would still slowly drag
[15:01] <Laurenceb_> but it might be possible to make the max separation from the ISS some tens of km
[15:01] <Laurenceb_> if you threw at very high speed - cricket style
[15:05] <AndyEsser> Tim is British - he should be good at Cricket... yes? :)
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[15:06] <Laurenceb_> I don't get the big deal about Tim
[15:07] <Laurenceb_> it's certainly good PR value for money, but its not like he is the first UK astronaut
[15:07] <AndyEsser> depends how you define astronaut
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[15:07] <AndyEsser> the woman that went 'first' was a space tourist
[15:07] <AndyEsser> didn't do a 6 month tour
[15:08] <adamgreig> space tourist is a bit unfair
[15:08] <adamgreig> she wasn't paid for by the UK government
[15:08] <adamgreig> but she didn't pay for herself and did do the same kinds of science as tim's doing
[15:08] <adamgreig> and we've had a few british citizens in space since her too
[15:08] <adamgreig> tim peake's the first UK astronaut on the ISS
[15:09] <adamgreig> embarrassing
[15:09] <adamgreig> but it does feel a bit + embarrassing
[15:09] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: from what I'm seeing those british citizens were dual-nationality - flying under the US flag
[15:09] <adamgreig> tweets from the PM claiming he'll be making history by doing a spacewalk
[15:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Sharman
[15:10] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[15:10] <adamgreig> yes so, helen sharman was the first british citizen in space, then michael foale was the first british citizen to do a spacewalk (and second in space), dual UK/US citizenship
[15:10] <Laurenceb_> this is PR by UK space agency
[15:10] <adamgreig> flew under american flag becuase our government did not believe in this sort of thing then
[15:10] <AndyEsser> silliness
[15:10] <Laurenceb_> with other gov PR machines hanging onto the coat tails
[15:11] <adamgreig> but it's weirdly extreme
[15:11] <adamgreig> it's like the government has decided those previous UK citizens spacewalks didn't count because the government didn't pay for them
[15:12] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Well the Russians paid for Helen S. because they didn't raise the money!
[15:12] <murb> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: Soviets.
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[15:23] <AndyEsser> The cameras on this EVA have really helped show actually quite how large the space station is
[15:25] <RealBorg> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_p7LiyOUx0 <- generate your own artificial gravity running around the inside of skylab
[15:37] <eroomde> must be fun having so much space
[15:37] <eroomde> not feelike like you're crawling through a sausage skin the whole time as seems to be the case on iss
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[15:48] <AndyEsser> oo, nearly 4pm :)
[15:48] <AndyEsser> this afternoon has gone quickly
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[15:51] <cm13g09> AndyEsser: yes, much to my delight.... weekend nearly here.....
[15:51] <cm13g09> oh... wait... I have to work tomorrow
[15:51] <AndyEsser> :(
[16:00] <AndyEsser> My office smells like fish and chips...
[16:00] <AndyEsser> whoops
[16:02] <AndyEsser> Madasgaaaar
[16:10] <gonzo__> one of the guys here does that on friday
[16:10] <gonzo__> result: nloss of half his chips
[16:11] <gonzo__> (suspect het gets a large portion for that reason)
[16:12] <AndyEsser> heh
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[16:18] <AndyEsser> woo!
[16:18] <AndyEsser> Regulators have arrived
[16:18] <AndyEsser> and in a package that means I won't mistake them for transistors :)
[16:20] <adamgreig> hah
[16:25] <AndyEsser> Least it means I can tinker again tonight :)
[16:26] <eroomde> brew commit
[16:26] <eroomde> Error: Unknown command: commit
[16:26] <eroomde> i think it's time to call it a day at work
[16:26] <adamgreig> hah yep
[16:26] <AndyEsser> make brew
[16:26] <eroomde> brain had nuff no, time glass of wine time
[16:26] <eroomde> ha yes
[16:27] <AndyEsser> off to pub after work, - then back home to rearrange the lab a bit and then work on timing code :)
[16:28] <eroomde> then down to me!
[16:28] <eroomde> for pub and rockets
[16:28] <AndyEsser> aww yea :)
[16:28] <AndyEsser> I am thinking that I might end up pulling an all nighter and just leave at like... 6am
[16:28] <AndyEsser> ha
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[16:29] Action: AndyEsser sits patiently outside eroomde's house waiting for signs of life
[16:29] Action: AndyEsser is not a stalker
[16:29] <eroomde> knocking is more reliable
[16:30] <AndyEsser> ha - I wouldn't wake you up if I'd driven down that early
[16:30] <eroomde> 6am + 3hrs?
[16:30] <eroomde> i'll be up
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[16:31] <AndyEsser> well - we'll see
[16:31] <AndyEsser> depends how into the code I get this evening
[16:32] <eroomde> sleep
[16:32] <eroomde> allnighters help no one
[16:32] <eroomde> brains are improved by steady concentration and good sleep
[16:32] <eroomde> save the allnighters for when there's 40hrs of stuff to do and a deadline in 10hrs
[16:33] <AndyEsser> heh
[16:33] <eroomde> which was about once a week during university and now thankfully less often
[16:33] <adamgreig> hah
[16:33] <adamgreig> that sounds nice
[16:33] <eroomde> it's great! you should try it once you viva
[16:33] <adamgreig> I have a paper submission deadline in a week, for which the research isn't yet working let alone any sort of writeup
[16:33] <AndyEsser> oops
[16:33] <adamgreig> so instead I'm founding an electronics club ;)
[16:34] <eroomde> in sigproc or in cued or in something else?
[16:34] <adamgreig> in cued
[16:34] <adamgreig> like this https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B31izBX9zJLk7BA9jZ6QK6FfTgpKUA8MlPJPT024GDA/edit?usp=sharing
[16:35] <adamgreig> plus applying for a grant for some parts and stuff bla bla
[16:35] <adamgreig> emailing all the people I know in cued who are interested in electronics + having them forward it to the soc team people doing electronics
[16:35] <adamgreig> good use for the 30x of that SMD test board I made
[16:36] <eroomde> nice
[16:36] <eroomde> good idea
[16:36] <adamgreig> mm
[16:36] <adamgreig> already got a fair number of keen people
[16:36] <adamgreig> though it turns out 13:30-14:30 on wednesday is weirdly busy
[16:36] <adamgreig> they have a 1A maths lecture then now?!
[16:36] <adamgreig> and some others have labs
[16:37] <adamgreig> was hoping that lunch time on weds would be quite available but apparently not
[16:37] <eroomde> no accounting for 1A timetables
[16:37] <adamgreig> they just get weirder and weirder. i'm sure in my day it was an easy 9-1 thing
[16:38] <eroomde> yep
[16:38] <eroomde> snap
[16:39] <adamgreig> anyway yea. should be fun I think. it's in the new dyson centre bit, so
[16:39] <adamgreig> the reflow oven's nice, we have some hand tools and normal irons, waiting on the metcals and bits
[16:40] <adamgreig> that said, the PCBs have not yet shipped from dirty, which is quite disappointing
[16:40] <adamgreig> been at the board house two weeks now
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[16:43] <eroomde> i like it when nice restaurants know you from your phone number
[16:43] <eroomde> you can just book a table for a date and they say 'that's for ed yeah?' and there's a confirmation email in your inbox before you've even put the phone down
[16:43] <adamgreig> I now get two stamps on my loyalty card for every meal at the local curry place, with a knowing wink
[16:43] <adamgreig> wow, emails
[16:44] <eroomde> aye, they're the future
[16:44] <eroomde> they basically have me on-file
[16:44] <eroomde> i had to book now for a months' time as it's basically totally booked already
[16:44] <eroomde> sat feb 13th - guessing they're getting the valentines crowd who don't want to go out on a sunday night
[16:46] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I got that with Taxis when I was in Cambridge
[16:46] <AndyEsser> "Morning Andy, to the office?"
[16:46] <AndyEsser> or "Hey Andy, back home this afternoon after work"
[16:46] <AndyEsser> or on the weekends
[16:46] <AndyEsser> "Into town for dinner Andy?"
[16:47] <AndyEsser> I literally just say yes, and bam
[16:51] <cm13g09> AndyEsser: lucky you!
[16:52] <adamgreig> cool, my CAA exemption/permission now includes an exemption from the EU standardised rules of the air
[16:52] <AndyEsser> exemption?/
[16:52] <adamgreig> it exempts me from the usual laws
[16:52] <cm13g09> Admittedly (and craag will attest to this) the pub that myself, craag, and co in Southampton frequent, the staff know me, so if I say "
[16:52] <AndyEsser> regarding?
[16:52] <adamgreig> releasing balloons
[16:52] <AndyEsser> ah
[16:52] <adamgreig> would typically be illegal
[16:52] <cm13g09> (who put the enter button there)
[16:52] <adamgreig> this is why people apply for permission to launch
[16:53] <cm13g09> "Can I have a table for 8 for 7PM?" "Sure, what's the name" "Chris" "Ah, OK Chris, I'll sort it."
[16:54] <cm13g09> I've also had, before, "I'm afraid we're fully booked.... hang on, that's Chris isn't it... How many are you today?"
[16:54] <AndyEsser> haha
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[16:57] <AndyEsser> Right, off to the pub
[16:57] <AndyEsser> chat later all
[17:01] <eroomde> adamgreig: i love malcolm
[17:02] <eroomde> he's so amateur rocketry
[17:02] <eroomde> got a load of controlled substances couriered to us in a taped-up shoebox
[17:02] <adamgreig> I thought that until he had no black powder and only crappy smokeless
[17:02] <adamgreig> and we had to abandon two launches and david broke his l2
[17:03] <eroomde> well yes, his various sagas in that respect are legend. I've witnessed far worse, like at big range
[17:03] <adamgreig> lol indeed
[17:03] <adamgreig> i think he have a secured a new supplier of bp, though
[17:03] <adamgreig> "bang" as the actor said the, well, you know
[17:03] <eroomde> when the dutch rocket boys bought an altitude record attempt over at very high expensive (vans, 5 guys, etc)
[17:03] <eroomde> and malcolm failed to get the relaods he'd promised up there
[17:03] <adamgreig> mm i remember
[17:03] <adamgreig> rubbish
[17:03] <eroomde> that caused problems
[17:04] <adamgreig> think david had a chat with a nice policeman from the firearms division
[17:05] <eroomde> storage license?
[17:05] <adamgreig> acquire-only, college property not being amenable to storage
[17:05] <eroomde> college is a good place to store if you don't tell them
[17:05] <adamgreig> not great if the police have to come check your secure store though
[17:05] <eroomde> i had 2 L reloads in my churchill bedroom for 2 years
[17:05] <adamgreig> acquire is sufficient to appease someone else's due diligence though
[17:05] <adamgreig> lol
[17:06] <adamgreig> to say nothing of your car
[17:06] <eroomde> i wouldn't keep something so dangerous in my car
[17:06] <eroomde> i need me car
[17:07] <adamgreig> hmm :p
[17:07] <adamgreig> oh that was "we" have secured a new supplier of BP above
[17:07] <adamgreig> not malcolm
[17:08] <adamgreig> hence the licence
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[17:09] <eroomde> from whom?
[17:10] <adamgreig> that was my subtle reference above
[17:18] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03hkLo1 after 037 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hkLo1
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[17:32] <Vaizki> We have zero pub culture here :(
[17:33] <Vaizki> I mean there's pubs but you can't take kids there
[17:33] <Vaizki> I want a living room extension with good beer
[17:34] <Vaizki> Not a tamed down nightclub full of drunks
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:34] <Lunar_Lander> guitar antenna :) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1lke6hPHKJDc2xkb3FuQWtVVkE/view
[17:34] <Vaizki> </rant>
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[18:00] <gb73d> LUn lAN GUITAR antenna ? whats tha
[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> antenna made from electric guitar string
[18:01] <gb73d> lol yeah i realise now ty
[18:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AGGIE-2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AGGIE-2
[18:02] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome :)
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[18:54] <AndyEsser> evening all
[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> hi AndyEsser
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[19:04] <critcalmass> Hi everyone.
[19:04] <AndyEsser> hey critcalmass
[19:05] <critcalmass> Ordered my SDR last night :-)
[19:05] <critcalmass> Got sim card for my GPS tracker today.
[19:05] <critcalmass> Will be ordering my PCBs this weekend.
[19:05] <critcalmass> Baby steps :-D
[19:06] <SA6BSS-Mike> Vaizki: there?
[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> AndyEsser, https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1lke6hPHKJDQ0Y1WW8yWE5HaVE/view
[19:27] <AndyEsser> had to do a bit of bodging?
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> three fails on that board
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> it is a shame
[19:34] <AndyEsser> :(
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> the quartz, the ftdi and today I also found a silkscreen fail
[19:35] <Lunar_Lander> (which is minor but still)
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[20:02] <critcalmass> Anyone used one of these before? http://sentintospace.com/products-page/electronics/locator/
[20:04] <critcalmass> Ive fitted the sim, am able to call it but can't get a gps lock.
[20:04] <critcalmass> It's been outside for 2 hours now
[20:04] <critcalmass> I appreciate first use and the need to download an almanac etc, but that should have happened by now, right?
[20:13] <AndyEsser> *sigh* time to do some maths
[20:29] <mfa298> critcalmass: most people here generally just rely on radio. from no real scientific research the general consensus is that sms trackers only work around 50% of the time
[20:30] <mfa298> you're generally trying to land in areas where mobile coverage is not so optimal (i.e. the countryside) and phone networks are usually designed assuming the phone will be 1-2m above the ground (i.e. near someones ear) rather than lying on the ground
[20:42] <daveake> I have that same GPS/GSM tracker, albeit without the sentintospace label and without the price tag either
[20:42] <daveake> £14.95 on ebay
[20:43] <daveake> I don't remember how long it took to get a lock, but it was minutes not hours
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[20:52] <critcalmass> Yeah, I think this one is U/S on fit.
[20:53] <critcalmass> I hear what you're saying about just using radio, but as a complete novice, I'd really like a backup, even if it is a 50/50 longshot.
[20:53] <critcalmass> Just a bit annoyed that this one doesn't work.
[20:53] <daveake> £15 is cheap insurance; worth doing for a first flight or valuable payload
[20:54] <AndyEsser> finally... got the payload up and running again
[20:54] <AndyEsser> *sigh*
[20:54] <AndyEsser> note to self... make notes about resistor values
[20:54] <AndyEsser> on the plus side - got my bandwidth down to 425 Hz rather than 600 :)
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[20:58] <SM0ULC-Reb> AndyEsser: rtty?
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[20:58] <AndyEsser> yarp
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[21:04] <AndyEsser> my office/lab is really not set up in a good way to receive GPS signals... sigh
[21:05] <Upu> get one of the cheapy GPS repeaters
[21:06] <Upu> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30DB-Car-GPS-Signal-Amplifier-Receiver-Repeater-Active-Antenna-For-Navman-NAV-/391210499679?hash=item5b15f67e5f:g:E3IAAOSw3ydVyaVp
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[21:18] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03EAD-PLS-00 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EAD-PLS-00
[21:21] <Upu> on the map AndyEsser ?
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[21:24] <Vaizki> boingggg
[21:24] <Vaizki> someone called
[21:27] <Vaizki> Upu, those need a notice to ofcom though
[21:27] <Vaizki> I don't think you need to seek permission but you need to let them know you are using one?
[21:29] <AndyEsser> Upu: I hope so :)
[21:29] <AndyEsser> Yep... there she is!
[21:29] <Upu> lol like they are approved Vaizki :)
[21:29] <AndyEsser> http://tracker.habhub.org/#!mt=roadmap&mz=18&qm=1_day&mc=53.19445,-2.90251&f=EAD-PLS-00&q=EAD-PLS-00
[21:30] <Vaizki> upu, so you are saying just ignore ofcom? :)
[21:31] <AndyEsser> definitely thinking the resistor coming from the AVR into the TXD bias/divider needs to be a variable resistor
[21:31] <AndyEsser> at least then I can easily adjust the bandwidth usage
[21:32] <Vaizki> why
[21:32] <Vaizki> just decide on something between 300-800
[21:33] <AndyEsser> but that seems... inflexible
[21:33] <Vaizki> and failsafe
[21:33] <AndyEsser> true
[21:33] <Vaizki> and cheap :)
[21:33] <AndyEsser> I did wonder if variable resistors are more likely to drift from bangs and shunts etc
[21:34] <AndyEsser> might just use a variable resistor for the breadboard prototype and then work out a good value and use that in the design
[21:36] <Upu> I'm saying you can only get a license for stuff thats approved
[21:36] <Upu> and that pos isn't :)
[21:38] <Vaizki> ah. so better to ask for forgiveness ;)
[21:39] <SA6BSS-Mike> Vaizki: Thaugt about morning discussion, what version of sdr# do u use? and have you downloaded the latest extio.dll, they do relese them in fast pase
[21:41] <Vaizki> probably not the latest then
[21:41] <SA6BSS-Mike> latest fully supported sdr# is 1361
[21:42] <Vaizki> If I find something painful I dont constantly grapple with it..
[21:42] <SA6BSS-Mike> ,later versin does nor work well with the play
[21:42] <Vaizki> why not?
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[21:42] <SA6BSS-Mike> they (airspy) dont like competition?
[21:43] <Vaizki> eh
[21:43] <prog> wtf?
[21:43] <Vaizki> haha you woke uhim up
[21:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> ofc they dont want competitor sdr reciver to gaint full access to they work
[21:44] <Vaizki> I will go get some popcorn and whiskey
[21:44] <prog> are we a charity?
[21:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> no, just logical
[21:44] <prog> do we develop dsp for free?
[21:44] <prog> we optimize our software to get the most from our hardware
[21:45] <prog> do you really believe I will abandon some optimization that will make airspy better just to make someone else happy, competitor or not?
[21:45] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes and you shoukld , its ok not to support other sdr:s
[21:45] <prog> it's not OK to sabotage other SDR's
[21:45] <prog> but it's OK to focus on your own business and leave the other do their job
[21:46] <prog> others*
[21:46] <prog> most of the optimizations in the latest sdr# version won't make anything else work better.
[21:47] <prog> people should be happy we still support other radios and make sure they don't break
[21:47] <prog> not ask for more nonsense
[21:47] <SA6BSS-Mike> Vaizki: I can pm you a version that work ok with the play, and check sdrplay site for latest extIO
[21:49] Action: prog facepalms
[21:49] <prog> did you ever read the license of the software you use for free?
[21:50] <prog> redistribution is not allowed.
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[21:51] <prog> man internet is still mostly uncivilized world.
[21:55] <AndyEsser> prog: are you the developer of SDR#?
[21:56] <prog> and a few other things
[21:56] <chris_99> is the SpyVerter made by you too out of curiousity?
[21:57] <prog> yes
[21:57] <AndyEsser> Do you happen to know when it might be in stock again in the UK?
[21:57] <chris_99> cool, been thinking of getting that
[21:58] <prog> no idea. It's up to the distributors to maintain their stocks.
[21:59] <AndyEsser> No worries - thanks :)
[21:59] <prog> itead will be happy to sell them though
[22:01] <AndyEsser> oo, quite a nice saving from itead - thanks for the headsup
[22:01] <AndyEsser> shall stick an order into them at the end of the month
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[22:12] <AndyEsser> hmm... alternating between 50 and 600 Baud makes a bit of a mess of dl-fldigi
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/YxMLN7s - on the topic of personal flying.
[22:26] <chris_99> wow
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> Carbon fibre is awesome
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> hah - they now make a teeeny pusher prop electric system for it
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ruppert-composite.ch/en/aktuell/256-elektroflugsaison-die-bilder.html takeoff+ 11 min flight to 1300m
[22:32] <Vaizki> andy, fldigi will follow the signal frequemcy drift etc... if you change the baudrate or switch off the radio you will confuse it
[22:33] <Vaizki> better to keep same rate and always send stop bit if you have no data
[22:33] <eroomde> AndyEsser: approx eta?
[22:33] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: that's a wonderful thing!
[22:37] <chris_99> i'm curious how heavy that is, to hold it like that, even if it is carbon fibre
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't say.
[22:38] <SpeedEvil> https://16-lvl3-pdl.vimeocdn.com/01/2865/1/39325401/90779227.mp4?token=0ca9e6f79f0f6c79e2527&expires=1452900640&filename=Archaeopteryx%20Demo-Clip-SD.mp4&download=1
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> the assembly video makes the bits look very light
[22:39] <SA6BSS-Mike> Empty weight (Standard) 54 kg (119 lbs)
[22:39] <SA6BSS-Mike> Cockpit fairing (Race) 6.7 kg (15 lbs)
[22:39] <SA6BSS-Mike> Rescue system 5.5 kg (12 lbs)
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> ah
[22:39] <chris_99> heh it's lighter than me
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> I guess in many cases, the issue will be not getting blown off your feet before takeoff
[22:40] <SpeedEvil> Really needs two other people holding the ends
[22:40] <AndyEsser> eroomde: aiming for 10.30-11.00 - can do earlier or later if you'd prefer
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[22:52] <eroomde> AndyEsser: perfeck no worries
[22:53] <AndyEsser> cool
[22:53] <SA6BSS-Mike> AndyEsser: did you order any pcb:s yet?
[22:53] <AndyEsser> no
[22:53] <AndyEsser> Will be starting to design them this coming week - now that I've got an end-to-end prototype working
[22:54] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok, if you do I saw you where thinking of picos/floaters
[22:54] <SA6BSS-Mike> in time to come
[22:54] <AndyEsser> The pico was just an entire to take my breadboard and stick a party balloon to it
[22:54] <AndyEsser> but a floater would be cool
[22:54] <chris_99> SpeedEvil, i wonder if you could combine a glider like that with a high altitude balloon ;)
[22:54] <SA6BSS-Mike> I have orded a few times from dirtpcb and there is an option for pcb thicknes
[22:55] <SA6BSS-Mike> if you go with tinnest or next thinnest you save alot of grams
[22:55] <SA6BSS-Mike> just a heads up
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> chris_99: with a very, very big one, yes
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> SA6BSS-Mike: Well, just reducing area helps a lot too
[22:55] <AndyEsser> SA6BSS-Mike: cheers :)
[22:55] <AndyEsser> Planning on fitting everything onto a 50x50 board
[22:56] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes, I did to, got 12 or 14 pcbs for 14dollars I think
[22:56] <eroomde> pico can go a lot smaller than that, but you're doing sd cards and lots of sensors and stuf iirc
[22:56] <AndyEsser> eroomde: Yea
[22:56] <eroomde> so that's much less mass sensitive if you're in latex territory
[22:57] <AndyEsser> again, the pico was just an idea to put the breadboard into 'real world' and see how it fairs
[22:57] <eroomde> so i'd just optimise the desk for making it easy to assemble and test (test points are great!)
[22:57] <eroomde> design*
[22:57] <AndyEsser> eroomde: plenty of TPs planned :)
[22:57] <eroomde> grand
[22:58] <SA6BSS-Mike> gl with your tracker, glad to se your balloon on the map yeasterday :)
[22:58] <AndyEsser> thanks
[22:58] <AndyEsser> got back on this evening after I put it back together
[22:58] <AndyEsser> and got the bandwidth down
[22:59] <critcalmass> Hey chaps. Sorry, quick question. What's a good acent rate for a balloon? 1kg latex, 1kg load. Are there any limitations?
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> critcalmass: 5m/s
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> critcalmass: Much more needs more gas, and much less risks it not bursting in a predictable time
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> http://habhub.org/calc/ - see
[23:04] <AndyEsser> critcalmass: I've been going for 5m/s Up and 5m/s down :)
[23:05] <AndyEsser> so I joined this channel on the 7th December - which means it's taken me about 6 weeks to go from no knowledge to a working prototype appearing on the map
[23:05] <AndyEsser> quite happy with that :)
[23:05] <eroomde> tweak it to 3.5/4 if you want to avoid somewhere on landing, but don't go too far below unless you know what you're doing
[23:05] <eroomde> 5 is the sort of nominal figure like everyone says
[23:06] <eroomde> yeah good stuff AndyEsser
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[23:09] <fsphil> you all scoped up AndyEsser?
[23:09] <AndyEsser> fsphil: I have my scope - need to spend some time getting to know how it works and things
[23:09] <AndyEsser> had a quick peak at the i2c bus from the UBX but need to figure out the LA
[23:10] <fsphil> ah yes the new one has an LA now
[23:10] <fsphil> that will be super handy
[23:10] <AndyEsser> So next week will be a case of getting my hardware timer code working properly and then putting back in the other code I stripped out for this GPS stuff
[23:10] <AndyEsser> and getting my battery V monitor in
[23:11] <AndyEsser> also... the scope scares me
[23:11] <SA6BSS-Mike> LA?
[23:11] <fsphil> logic analyser
[23:11] <AndyEsser> shows how ridiculously noisy my power rails are
[23:11] <SA6BSS-Mike> ah
[23:11] <eroomde> can it measure rms noise?
[23:12] <AndyEsser> not sure
[23:12] <AndyEsser> need to sit and read the manual
[23:12] <fsphil> it might not be as bad as it first looks
[23:13] <fsphil> unless it's really all over the place
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[23:13] <AndyEsser> fsphil: I may have zoomed in a fair bit :)
[23:19] <AndyEsser> Any ideas how I can get my dl-fldigi station showing on the map?
[23:20] <fsphil> just need to put in the coordinates in dl client > configure > location
[23:20] <fsphil> and a callsign of some description
[23:20] <fsphil> which is under the operator tab
[23:21] <fsphil> oh you need an altitude too iirc
[23:21] <AndyEsser> o herp derp
[23:21] <AndyEsser> I'd put my location in the wrong field
[23:22] <AndyEsser> where do I put the altitude?
[23:22] <fsphil> dl client > location
[23:22] <AndyEsser> Ah ok
[23:23] <AndyEsser> sorry was in the Operator tab for all of it
[23:23] <fsphil> it only uses the callsign field from that
[23:23] <fsphil> though I think it uploads the radio/antenna text too
[23:23] <fsphil> used to anyway
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[23:29] <AndyEsser> Ah, there we go :)
[23:30] <AndyEsser> Need to get this all set up on my Linux server and run the antenna out to a better position then just leave it running :)
[23:31] <AndyEsser> Anyway - off to bed
[23:31] <AndyEsser> eroomde: shall see you tomorrow - will text if my ETA changes due to traffic
[00:00] --- Sat Jan 16 2016