highaltitude.log.20160113

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[00:11] <AndyEsser> daveake: your message about read the bytes from i2c and if it's not a 0xff there's no data
[00:11] <AndyEsser> do I just need to initialise i2c on the avr then, and read the buffer and act on it if it's not 0xff?
[00:11] <adamgreig> yea
[00:11] <adamgreig> you just keep reading it
[00:12] <adamgreig> and accumulate/process any bytes that are not 0xff
[00:17] <AndyEsser> do I need to address the ublox and send a start command first, I'm guessing?
[00:17] <adamgreig> yes
[00:17] <adamgreig> the 'start' is just a bus fault you generate, it's a single bit duration
[00:18] <adamgreig> well-
[00:18] <adamgreig> you just keep repeated read
[00:18] <adamgreig> without resending the address
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[00:33] <AndyEsser> hmm
[00:33] <AndyEsser> write the byte 0x42 (address) results in it just waiting for acknowledgement
[00:34] <AndyEsser> I am clearly doing something stupid :)
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[00:36] <adamgreig> waiting for ack suggests any number of thigns are wrong
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[00:36] <adamgreig> starting with your i2c wiring, your i2c pullups, the GPS itself, whether it has power
[00:37] <adamgreig> your i2c peripheral being enabled, your pins in the right state
[00:37] <AndyEsser> hehe
[00:37] <AndyEsser> yea...
[00:37] <adamgreig> ideally this is where you would stick a scope or logic analyser on the i2c lines
[00:37] <AndyEsser> well I know the GPS is on, and responding - I can see data if I connect the UART pins
[00:37] <adamgreig> good start
[00:37] <adamgreig> it's a ublox so the pullups are internal
[00:37] <adamgreig> so that's OK too
[00:38] <adamgreig> probably in your code then, assuming you wired the pins right
[00:38] <AndyEsser> pullups on the SDA/SCL lines?
[00:38] <adamgreig> yea
[00:38] <AndyEsser> so I don't need them then?
[00:38] <adamgreig> in general i2c requires them because of how it works
[00:38] <adamgreig> but the ublox contains pullups internally so you shouldn't need them
[00:38] <adamgreig> though.. well.. is your avr on 3v3 or 5v?
[00:38] <AndyEsser> 3v3
[00:38] <adamgreig> cool
[00:38] <adamgreig> good good
[00:39] <AndyEsser> my suspicion is towards the setup of I2C and the clock speeds
[00:39] <AndyEsser> personally
[00:41] <adamgreig> sure
[00:41] <adamgreig> quite likely
[00:41] <adamgreig> do you have a multimeter at least?
[00:41] <AndyEsser> yes
[00:41] <adamgreig> you can check that the lines both idle at 3v3 and maybe appear to do something when you talk over it
[00:43] <AndyEsser> hmm
[00:43] <AndyEsser> after init and start of twi
[00:43] <AndyEsser> it's at 18mV (which I guess is basically 0
[00:43] <AndyEsser> I thought the lines normally sit high :(
[00:43] <adamgreig> they should generally sit high unless either you or the ublox is pulling them down yes
[00:43] <adamgreig> are _both_ at 18mV or just one or the other?
[00:44] <AndyEsser> SDA is at 19mV and SCL is at 20mV
[00:45] <adamgreig> that's no good
[00:46] <AndyEsser> Yea, let me go back to the drawing board
[00:46] <adamgreig> check your code carefully i suppose :P
[00:48] <AndyEsser> hmm
[00:49] <AndyEsser> quick calculation suggests the bus speed is coming out at 388.042kHz
[00:49] <adamgreig> sounds a bit too fast
[00:50] <adamgreig> i would target 10-100kHz
[00:50] <adamgreig> for now
[00:50] <AndyEsser> I can up the prescaler and get it to 93.326
[00:50] <adamgreig> normal i2c is up to 100kHz, "fast-mode" is 400kHz
[00:50] <AndyEsser> are the 100kHz/400kHz rough figures? or need to be exact?
[00:50] <adamgreig> they are exact limits
[00:50] <adamgreig> you can run at most lower speeds
[00:51] <adamgreig> since it's synchronous
[00:51] <adamgreig> but in general 10, 100, 400 are common speeds
[00:51] <AndyEsser> so 93kHz should be ok?
[00:53] <adamgreig> yea
[00:55] <AndyEsser> ok progress
[00:55] <AndyEsser> had a type in my write code
[00:55] <AndyEsser> so I already have a loop that every 2 seconds sends the payload message over the RF link
[00:56] <AndyEsser> at the end of that, I've got a link that checks the TWI read for a byte that isn't 0xff (and loops if it isn't)
[00:56] <AndyEsser> ALL OF THE B's being printed on screen
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[01:17] <Ian_> AndyEsser if you stay up all night and miss the postman in the morning, you might have to wait another day to be able to collect your USB cable from the postal depot :)
[01:17] <Ian_> Recharge the batteries for a fresh early start!
[01:19] <Ian_> Congrats on your progress thus far - all Fine Business
[01:21] <AndyEsser> Ian_: the cable is being delivered to work - won't miss the postman ;)
[01:21] <AndyEsser> but thanks for your concern
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[02:23] <Ian_> That's good
[02:28] <AndyEsser> however, this has now thoroughly annoyed me - so I'm heading to bed
[02:28] <AndyEsser> night
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[03:02] <Ian_> night
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[03:08] <Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHCb-ty3EBU
[03:08] <Laurenceb_> this is very impressive but also very scary
[03:09] <Laurenceb_> don't why the heck they allowed someone in the same room as that beast
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[03:34] <SpeedEvil> Oh - those silly things.
[03:35] <SpeedEvil> (a LASER thruster that works over a few meters, limited by 1.22*y/d reflections between small mirrors
[03:36] <SpeedEvil> May somewhat outperform a good steel spring
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[08:55] <AndyEsser> morning folks
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[09:07] <fsphil> morn
[09:07] <AndyEsser> o/
[09:07] <Vaizki> well morning.. although I have been up for 4.5 hours already x_x
[09:08] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:08] <AndyEsser> I may have erm... slept through all my alarms
[09:08] <Vaizki> if the i2c is annoying you, just wait for your scope and do something else :)
[09:08] <AndyEsser> still got to work early enough to nip to B&Q and get a proper coffee
[09:08] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: yea, I gave up at like 2.30 last night, I'll get back to it tonight and spot a really obvious error or something
[09:09] <AndyEsser> In fact, for all I know, the Ublox isn't even sending i2c out :)
[09:12] <Vaizki> I poll over i2c
[09:12] <Vaizki> but then again it's UBX, not NMEA.. I don't think you can ask for NMEA updates
[09:12] <AndyEsser> I know it's supported - just not sure if it's enabled out of the box
[09:13] <daveake> it is
[09:13] <AndyEsser> for simplicity I could just use the UART - but I'm trying desperately not to use that
[09:13] <AndyEsser> daveake: cool - cheers for confirming that
[09:15] <daveake> Remember that i2c addresses are 7 bit and that when you select a device you need to shift that left by 1 bit then use the lowest "address" bit to select R/W
[09:15] <AndyEsser> R = 1
[09:15] <daveake> (random guess as to why it's not working)
[09:15] <AndyEsser> W = 0
[09:15] <Vaizki> so which address is the u-blox sending the periodic nmea string over i2c?
[09:15] <AndyEsser> if I remember correctly?
[09:15] <AndyEsser> daveake: however... I don't think I've done the shift
[09:15] <AndyEsser> which might explain it
[09:15] <daveake> aha
[09:16] <daveake> got a scope or logic analyser on the bus yet?
[09:16] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:16] <AndyEsser> nope
[09:16] <Vaizki> I told him to wait for his 1054Z.. :)
[09:16] <AndyEsser> hasn't arrived yet
[09:16] <Vaizki> you got it from batronix?
[09:16] <fsphil> you've got time to add that text mode adventure game to the console
[09:16] <AndyEsser> Telonix
[09:16] <daveake> well, don't spend too much time on this till it does
[09:16] <AndyEsser> fsphil: o god don't
[09:17] <AndyEsser> daveake: but... wild stabbing around in the dark is fun!
[09:17] <AndyEsser> :)
[09:17] <daveake> I added a serial menu to my first payload
[09:17] <daveake> ofc that soon got removed and I've not done it since :)
[09:17] <AndyEsser> I have a serial CLI :)
[09:17] <Vaizki> ...
[09:17] <Vaizki> whyyy :)
[09:17] <AndyEsser> setting payload ID, receiving debug info
[09:18] <AndyEsser> and setting options in the config
[09:18] <daveake> reading / clearing log
[09:18] <AndyEsser> :)
[09:19] <Vaizki> you will throw it out when you suddenly decide to add a SD card for logs and discover how much memory the file system stuff hogs up :)
[09:19] <AndyEsser> heh
[09:19] <AndyEsser> Well, I've found it useful so far - will keep it until I don't need it
[09:19] <Vaizki> of course you can just raw write log blocks to a SD and ignore file systems..
[09:19] <AndyEsser> also, it's only enabled if a specific pin is held high at boot up
[09:19] <daveake> Yes I did
[09:21] <Vaizki> I should actually try that SD card stuff
[09:21] <AndyEsser> SD card is on my list for once I've finished my basic stuff (GPS, RTTY etc)
[09:22] <AndyEsser> want to have an sd card and acceleromter on my basic board
[09:22] <Vaizki> should be pretty simple without a filesystem, just need a reliable way to detect where writing left off in case of a restart
[09:30] <AndyEsser> damnit daveake
[09:30] <AndyEsser> knew I should've left my breadboard on this morning so I could remote in and work on the code
[09:30] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:30] <daveake> :)
[09:31] <AndyEsser> I just don't trust my PSU to leave it alone at home, for that long
[09:31] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:31] <AndyEsser> might pop home at lunch to work on it
[09:31] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:32] <Flutterbat> AndyEsser: which gps receiver do you use?
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[09:43] <AndyEsser> Ublox MAX M8C
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[09:55] <Flutterbat> AndyEsser: ah the 8. neat. are you using the uart connection? i tinkered around with an ublox7, from what i can tell via uart you cant put it into the sleep mode, and sadly the spi pins arent routed out on my china board :(
[09:56] <BARC> Morning all, many thanks upu and others for the ears on the ground yesterday. Despite the conditions we had a nice flight for the shool we'd launched for.
[09:56] <BARC> *school
[09:57] <BARC> http://imgur.com/Le7IyRk
[09:58] <Ian_> The kids would have liked that pic
[09:59] <fsphil> would create quite a buzz
[09:59] <fsphil> poor buzz. people keep attaching him to balloons
[09:59] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03hkLo1 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hkLo1
[09:59] <fsphil> should be the plot of the next film :)
[09:59] <BARC> They all seemed pretty excited so thanks for helping us track
[10:00] <BARC> really strong winds high up at the moment so we were a long way behind it
[10:01] <BARC> Seems like above about 25km each extra km up means another 15 - 20km East
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[10:05] <AndyEsser> Flutterbat: nope i2c instead of UART
[10:05] <AndyEsser> BARC: awesome pic :)
[10:08] <BARC> Thanks AndyEsser
[10:08] <AndyEsser> those sorts of pics are basically the #1 reason for me wanting to do this stuff
[10:08] <AndyEsser> people who take fancy photos at weddings, or of landscapes aint got nuffin on those ;)
[10:10] <eroomde> believe it or not, they wear out slightly after the first 1000
[10:10] <AndyEsser> eroomde: you are such a great person at providing motivation ;)
[10:10] <eroomde> then you start thinking about rockoons and gliders
[10:10] <eroomde> hah yeah
[10:10] <AndyEsser> I'm already thinking about those
[10:10] <AndyEsser> however, trying not to get carried away ;)
[10:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 032E0EBR-10 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=2E0EBR-10
[10:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 032E0EBR-4 after 0321 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=2E0EBR-4
[10:22] <Flutterbat> AndyEsser: not a fan of i2c, because hardware support isnt so wide spreaded in the chip atmel uC realm. at least not in the atmega8/88/328 range, which i usually use
[10:23] <zyp> sure it is, but atmel calls it TWI
[10:23] <Flutterbat> i see, good to know
[10:30] <AndyEsser> Flutterbat: AVR328 is what I'm using
[10:30] <AndyEsser> and yes - it's called TWI because of patent reasons
[10:33] <eroomde> Flutterbat: i can't remember the last time i came across a microcontroller that didn;t support i2c comms
[10:41] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I think even the PICs we used back at school had i2c
[10:45] <AndyEsser> Hmm... should I stick my tracker in my car on the way down to Oxford on Saturday and see if anyone can pick it up :)
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[10:51] <Flutterbat> eroomde: didnt know that twi = i2c. therefore i never looked hard for i2c parts. Its usually trivial to find similar components that use uart or spi
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[11:41] <AndyEsser> UpuWork: Are you ok for me to link to your Store from my blog?
[11:45] <AndyEsser> woo USB TTL cable has arrived
[11:45] <eroomde> links are free
[11:45] <eroomde> never ask permission
[11:45] <eroomde> internet breaks when that happens
[11:45] <eroomde> as you were
[11:46] <AndyEsser> lol
[11:57] <fsphil> never use javascript for links either
[11:57] <fsphil> or I will hunt you down
[11:57] <AndyEsser> lol
[12:03] <kokey> is it possible for me to ask a question?
[12:03] <AndyEsser> You just did ;)
[12:03] <daveake> Everyone is allowed one per day
[12:03] <daveake> too bad
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[12:08] <AndyEsser> kokey: what's your question?
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[12:12] <kokey> AndyEsser: I don't have one, I was joking
[12:12] <AndyEsser> lol ok
[12:15] <fsphil> ot, but I'm quite excited: http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2016/robot-wars-returns
[12:16] <AndyEsser> *pants heavily*
[12:16] <fsphil> just talking over potential robots with people in the office :)
[12:16] <eroomde> wow
[12:16] <AndyEsser> the MD here is trying to find ways to get his son into electronics and stuff more - (I gave him my raspberry Pi + leds and switches and stuff before xmas)
[12:16] <AndyEsser> that might be an awesome way to do it :)
[12:17] <fsphil> I always said I would make one, then the series ended
[12:17] <AndyEsser> Yea, I wanted to make one - but at the time it was on - I was so young I had no idea what was involved
[12:17] <AndyEsser> haha
[12:17] <daveake> Need to see the rules first
[12:17] <fsphil> I'm terrible at mechanical stuff, but it would be fun to see it being totally decimated in the ring
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[12:18] <AndyEsser> hehe
[12:18] <AndyEsser> fsphil: "My baby!!!"
[12:18] <daveake> Get it to raise a white flag
[12:18] <fsphil> put a little white flag on a spring that pops up when the cover gets removed
[12:18] <fsphil> hah
[12:18] <daveake> hah
[12:18] <eroomde> it could be tempting
[12:18] <daveake> surrenderotron
[12:19] <fsphil> robot ears, stand by
[12:19] <fsphil> yeah no details on the rules yet
[12:19] <fsphil> I have a copy of the old show rules somewhere
[12:19] <daveake> they'd be worth 2 or 3 reads
[12:20] <chris_99> where you allowed to jam the opponents signal i wonder
[12:20] <fsphil> no
[12:20] <AndyEsser> no
[12:21] <daveake> pretty sure not
[12:21] <AndyEsser> some form of EM Warfare would be awesome though :)
[12:21] <fsphil> they stopped a match when they found an audience member with a controller
[12:21] <daveake> hah
[12:21] <chris_99> haha
[12:21] <AndyEsser> damn my imagination
[12:22] Action: AndyEsser needs to get passed his first launch
[12:22] <daveake> They should disallow manual control and have the robots sort out their own decisions
[12:22] <AndyEsser> daveake: that'd be cool
[12:22] <AndyEsser> :)
[12:22] <fsphil> that could result in quite dull fights :)
[12:22] <AndyEsser> be interesting how you'd handle teams
[12:22] <AndyEsser> some sort of IFF?
[12:22] <daveake> at which point I'd design a robot that hides behind a white sheet :)
[12:23] <AndyEsser> hmm...
[12:23] <AndyEsser> duelling HABs
[12:23] <AndyEsser> :)
[12:23] <AndyEsser> eroomde: you did a mini robot wars thing once didn't you?
[12:23] <AndyEsser> or was that ian?
[12:23] <daveake> we've had some sumltaneous launches with 1 hab photographing the other
[12:24] <AndyEsser> daveake: what separation at launch?
[12:24] <daveake> afaik nobody has had one aim its camera at the other, or anything like that
[12:24] <daveake> metres
[12:24] <AndyEsser> is that all?
[12:24] <fsphil> ah yes, the uk vs. aus launch
[12:24] <daveake> a couple of times there have been tangles
[12:24] <AndyEsser> something I want to try is launching a constellation of balloons that are communicating
[12:24] <AndyEsser> but not sure what purpose it'd have
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[12:25] Action: AndyEsser needs to invent a suitable scientific experiment to justify the cost
[12:25] <craag> dave did the balloons repeating each other
[12:25] <craag> to get positions of landed balloons
[12:25] <daveake> I did this one with darkside http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=715
[12:25] <daveake> there have been some others too
[12:25] <craag> which would also work for getting positions from floating balloons otherwise over the horizon - but that's quite difficult to do
[12:26] <daveake> yeah I thought of doing that this winter
[12:26] <daveake> weather and other factors haven't allowed it yet
[12:27] <fsphil> simultaneous launch of a few balloons, each about 200km apart
[12:27] <AndyEsser> daveake: that ball enclosure is pretty awesome
[12:27] <fsphil> could be tricky to organise
[12:27] <daveake> HobbyCraft or ebay for the balls
[12:28] <fsphil> the boxes are probably a bit handier
[12:28] <daveake> Yes
[12:28] <fsphil> not as fancy though
[12:29] <AndyEsser> daveake: that looks like a fun day
[12:29] <AndyEsser> I'd love to be involved in something like that
[12:29] <daveake> It was. Lovely weather too.
[12:30] <daveake> Took our time. After launch we could see the balloons by eye for ages.
[12:30] <AndyEsser> when do the majority of launches start happening in the year?
[12:30] <fsphil> mid-summer
[12:31] <fsphil> the high altitude winds flip around, head slowly east
[12:31] <fsphil> so flights tend to zig-zag around but stay nearish the launch site
[12:32] <daveake> It's so much nicer then ... warm, dry, easy to launch (little wind), and much easier to chase
[12:32] <fsphil> I've never launched in those conditions, now that I think about it
[12:33] <fsphil> well, maybe the very first one. was quite nice weather that day
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[12:38] <BARC> Can confirm.. summer winds better! flights at the moment for us are going about 15km-20km further East for every extra km we go above around 25km
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[12:39] <daveake> yeah, summer flights don't suffer from that problem
[12:41] <fsphil> the high east winds also make a UK > US/CA launch possible
[12:41] <fsphil> but needs a good altitude float for a week or more
[12:42] <AndyEsser> That'd be fun to attempt :)
[12:43] <fsphil> tricky though
[12:43] <fsphil> a latex balloon won't last long enough
[12:43] <AndyEsser> thats what makes it fun :)
[12:52] <Laurenceb> it might just last long enough with hydrogen
[12:53] <Laurenceb> but it seems a bit of an annoying challenge
[12:53] <Laurenceb> just random chance whether it would work
[12:53] <AndyEsser> launch a balloon, with a rocket payload - that launches at max altitude... then when the rocket starts to drop... deploy another balloon from within it
[12:53] <AndyEsser> :)
[12:53] <R6mco> if I were to look at the most accurate and recent scheduled balloon launches, where do I have to look?
[12:54] <daveake> You know its winter when you open your hourly predictor, think it's broken, then have to zoom out to see any of the landing spots
[12:54] <AndyEsser> lol
[12:54] <AndyEsser> o0o MD has a big garden... which is relatively flat
[12:54] <AndyEsser> I wonder if he'd mind me using that as a launch location...
[12:55] <daveake> 100 metres in any direction?
[12:55] <AndyEsser> quite possibly - need to check
[12:55] <fsphil> being able to fill indoors is a huge plus, if you know somewhere with a big door
[12:55] <AndyEsser> if not - I'm sure there are fields near him
[12:55] <AndyEsser> and he'd likely know the farmer
[12:56] <AndyEsser> *sigh*
[12:56] <AndyEsser> want to be home programming and tinkering
[12:56] <AndyEsser> I need to make this stuff into a job
[12:56] <AndyEsser> ha
[13:01] <eroomde> i did that
[13:01] <eroomde> only gets harder
[13:01] <eroomde> the thing is, the second you do the same thing twice, it gets boring and there's no point
[13:02] <eroomde> but that's also a way of getting steady money with low risk, which is good for business
[13:02] <eroomde> so the two are in opposition with each other, if you are in the game for doing interesting and creative things anyway
[13:02] <eroomde> so turning hobby into job can be a double-edged sword
[13:03] <eroomde> unless you are willing to keep doing esearch in your job. Which can be a hard life.
[13:03] <eroomde> Unless you are in a research environment where your salary gets paid whether or not it works
[13:07] <RealBorg> if it doen't work, you don't deserve a salary ;)
[13:08] <eroomde> f-off
[13:08] <eroomde> no idea what you're talking about
[13:10] <Vaizki> [06:15] <RealBorg> ulfr, I am planning to build a space glider
[13:10] <Vaizki> so does it work? :)
[13:10] <fsphil> space glider... what does that even mean
[13:12] <daveake> Well space is where there's not enough air to glider, and .... oh
[13:12] <RealBorg> i'm still working on it
[13:12] <daveake> -r
[13:13] <eroomde> RealBorg: do you want to try an experiment where i ban you from talking in this channel until you show me some hardware
[13:13] <eroomde> so you have a chance to actually do something instead of just talking about it
[13:13] <RealBorg> the idea is to build a lighter-than-air vehicle and add aerodynamic lift at peak altitude
[13:13] <AndyEsser> well if I could get enough in from the regular routine stuff to keep funding my research stuff - that'd be good
[13:14] <AndyEsser> also, potential launch site located 25 mins away!
[13:14] <eroomde> good!
[13:14] <eroomde> yes doing stuff on the side is grand
[13:14] <Vaizki> sorry for feeding the borg guys, I couldn't help it :(
[13:14] <fsphil> I'm lucky that I can launch from work
[13:14] <eroomde> it's can be fun if you don;t have to pay the bills with it
[13:14] <daveake> When I was 9 I had an idea about picking up a phone, calling a computer, asking any question, and having the answer read back to me. Damn you Siri.
[13:14] <eroomde> can pick-and-choose the interesting stuff
[13:14] <AndyEsser> eroomde: yea
[13:15] <AndyEsser> I'm actually planning on going freelance this year - which will likely be dangerous as I'll spend 3 months working on HAB stuff before I Realise I need to look for freelance clients
[13:15] <AndyEsser> but would give me time :)
[13:15] <AndyEsser> eroomde: what was the majority of the 'commercial' stuff you did? schools wanting to launch teddies etc?
[13:15] <eroomde> jesus no
[13:15] <eroomde> wtf
[13:15] <AndyEsser> hehe
[13:15] <fsphil> uh-oh, you said the T word
[13:15] <eroomde> my job now
[13:16] <daveake> lol
[13:16] <eroomde> it was born out of cusf stuff
[13:16] <AndyEsser> fsphil: I saw the video of a talk ed gave where he showed his dislike of teddies ;)
[13:16] <eroomde> not launching stupid bollocks on habs
[13:16] <eroomde> christ
[13:16] <AndyEsser> haha
[13:16] <AndyEsser> sorry - won't push the button again
[13:16] <AndyEsser> :)
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[13:16] <daveake> Push it again when it's quiet here :)
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[13:19] <RealBorg> eroomde, would you be happy with a ion drive on wheels?
[13:19] <eroomde> that'd be cool
[13:20] <AndyEsser> https://goo.gl/HCzRGJ
[13:20] <AndyEsser> that field is what I'm going to look at using :)
[13:22] <fsphil> check you can get mobile internet there
[13:22] <AndyEsser> I'll go and scout it out sometime
[13:22] <eroomde> anywhere with a welsh name is suspect
[13:22] <AndyEsser> lol
[13:23] <AndyEsser> not all of wales is a deadzone
[13:23] <RealBorg> it's mostly a question of the right carrier
[13:32] <AndyEsser> daveake: have updated my code to include the 1-bit shift for the address
[13:32] <AndyEsser> knew I should've left the AVR powered up
[13:33] <daveake> :)
[13:34] <AndyEsser> should there be a stop instruction after sending the address? I presume yes
[13:43] <Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GZpWIAVPdGo
[13:43] <Laurenceb> lol n00bs
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[14:08] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb: That's a meatier
[14:12] <Laurenceb> ball o ice innit
[14:17] <AndyEsser> colleague just comes in "What do you do when you're not working on the website?"
[14:17] <AndyEsser> Me: "Watch youtube videos of rockets"
[14:17] <AndyEsser> :)
[14:23] <eroomde> it's like you work here
[14:26] <AndyEsser> haha
[14:26] <AndyEsser> not sure my boss would be happy with me watching rocket videos
[14:26] <AndyEsser> sadly
[14:26] <AndyEsser> also don't think I can think of an angle to get work to sponsor a launch :(
[14:27] <AndyEsser> other than roping in the MD's kids school and doing it as a "community charity" type thing
[14:27] <AndyEsser> ha
[14:49] <craag> kickstarter it
[14:49] <craag> talk a lot about going to real space
[14:49] <craag> then use the tagline "1 balloon, a trillion lives"
[14:49] <craag> sorted.
[14:50] <Laurenceb> anyone know any good command line pdf manipulators?
[14:50] <Laurenceb> I need to crop merge rescale etc
[14:50] <adamgreig> pdftk
[14:50] <Laurenceb> yeah I cant seem to make it rescale
[14:52] <cm13g09> Laurenceb: I think imagemagick can
[14:52] <Laurenceb> can it keep vectors as vectors and embedded bitmaps unchanged?
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[14:57] <Laurenceb> creating proper pdf files with vector and bitmap in the right places seems to be an inordinate pain
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[15:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> AndyEsser, There is a tree in your field .... this is what happens http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/KAREN_20150712/index.php?ind=4
[15:03] <AndyEsser> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: I was kind of hoping I'd check the average wind direction ahead of time and set up accordingly
[15:03] <AndyEsser> :)
[15:04] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> So did they I think!
[15:04] <AndyEsser> hehe
[15:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> I seem to recall it as the Manchester Space group, they visit the Pub before Launch as well as after ;-)
[15:05] <daveake> Handy Hint: celebrate in pub after recovery, not before launch
[15:05] <AndyEsser> haha
[15:05] <AndyEsser> daveake: yep
[15:05] <AndyEsser> I had toyed with pub after launch before recovery
[15:05] <AndyEsser> to waste time
[15:05] <AndyEsser> but imagine a "Meh, it's probably in the North Sea, lets not bother. Another round?"
[15:05] <AndyEsser> :)
[15:06] <mfa298> In that case you chase to East Anglia and find a good pub looking out onto the North Sea and enjoy a good pint of Adnams
[15:07] <daveake> Pros eat fish & chips whilst waiting for the payload to return to shore :p
[15:08] <daveake> or in my case, Shoreham :)
[15:09] <eroomde> they're less cool about things falling out of the sky in shoreham now
[15:09] <daveake> ah yes
[15:10] <AndyEsser> lol... what did you do?
[15:10] <AndyEsser> :P
[15:11] <daveake> Me? Nothing. Ed's referring to a plane crash last year.
[15:12] <AndyEsser> O yes, had forgotten about that
[15:12] <AndyEsser> friend of mine had only passed the point it crashed about 10 minutes before
[15:12] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Day of the UKHAS meeting in London ...
[15:16] <R6mco> Suggested agenda item: JT9 on 30m with 1700 Hz above standard WSPR dial (10.138700 MHz)
[15:17] <fsphil> I left my HF radio at home :p
[15:22] <AndyEsser> fsphil: aimed in a Southeast direction? :P
[15:22] <AndyEsser> haha
[15:23] <fsphil> I don't have space for an HF antenna that can be aimed :)
[15:25] <AndyEsser> right, blog/website up and running
[15:25] <AndyEsser> time to remember to actually write some blog posts about this stuff
[15:28] <AndyEsser> shall we take bets on whether the i2c stuff just works when I get home now that I've actually done the address stuff properly...
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[15:33] <eroomde> i2c is a pain in one's bottom
[15:34] <eroomde> new desk arrived just now
[15:34] <eroomde> home lab incoming
[15:34] <AndyEsser> How exciting :)
[15:34] <eroomde> it is rather
[15:34] <AndyEsser> (I didn't mean for that to sound as sarcastic as it perhaps came across)
[15:35] <eroomde> it is exciting tho
[15:35] <eroomde> somewhere more solid at home is overdue
[15:35] <eroomde> for working on stuff
[15:35] <eroomde> somewhere that's comfy and ergonomic
[15:35] <AndyEsser> having been using it for 1.5 weeks now - I'm unhappy with my new desks
[15:36] <gonzo__> and has a vice
[15:36] <fsphil> my work desk is so untidy already
[15:36] <AndyEsser> I might cave, and move it all to the spare bedroom instead and build a really nice solid desk
[15:36] <AndyEsser> In-car converter to 240mains, provides 150W continous... that's like 0.6A right?
[15:37] <gonzo__> less efficiency
[15:37] <eroomde> yep
[15:37] <gonzo__> or plus inefficiency
[15:37] <AndyEsser> so basically... not much
[15:37] <AndyEsser> ha
[15:38] Action: AndyEsser makes sure not to run all the things off the car battery when in a field
[15:38] <AndyEsser> might see how much generator rental is
[15:38] <AndyEsser> :)
[15:38] <eroomde> run 150W worth of stuff
[15:38] <AndyEsser> lol
[15:38] <eroomde> i don't think you need more than that in the field
[15:38] <eroomde> usually
[15:38] <eroomde> laptop and radio that's just receiving?
[15:38] <fsphil> the one I had wouldn't run of a battery on its own, needed the car running or the low battery thing would kick in
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[15:38] <AndyEsser> fsphil: would always run with the car on anyway
[15:38] <eroomde> i have witnessed a few hab-chase dead batts
[15:38] <AndyEsser> wouldn't want to risk killing battery
[15:38] <fsphil> I had a battery just for it
[15:39] <gonzo__> split charge
[15:39] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I was more suddenly thinking PSU + Soldering Iron etc for in-field repairs or something
[15:39] <AndyEsser> plus... Kettle
[15:39] <AndyEsser> :)
[15:39] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I have followed Chris's path, I have a flight case with Coffee, Sugar, Teabags and a kettle in :)
[15:39] <eroomde> oh i see
[15:39] <eroomde> the iron might take a lot
[15:40] <eroomde> PSU probably not
[15:40] <gonzo__> we've had people on the radio club events try anmd bring an electric kjettle.
[15:40] <eroomde> if it's just for working on the hab
[15:40] <AndyEsser> Personally, with the house only being 30 mins away
[15:40] <AndyEsser> if I had to do something drastic to repair, I'd just take it home
[15:40] <eroomde> my iron is magnificent and fabulous and makes you fall to your knees in awe
[15:40] <fsphil> lol
[15:40] <eroomde> but at the cost of having very high dynamic power requirements
[15:40] <AndyEsser> besides, will have multiple boards with me so if one fails, I can just set the config on another and pop it into the enclosure
[15:41] <eroomde> like a pro
[15:41] <eroomde> i would take tools to the field tho
[15:41] <eroomde> soldering iron should be ok
[15:41] <gonzo__> gas iron. And small gas stove for tea
[15:41] <eroomde> yeah the weller pyropen or whatever its called is good
[15:41] <eroomde> i've used that for field repairs quite a lot
[15:41] <AndyEsser> might look at one of those
[15:41] <fsphil> that portable iron that can run from 12v would be good
[15:41] <AndyEsser> and a camping stove for coffee :)
[15:41] <eroomde> for bacon sandwiches
[15:42] <AndyEsser> sausage
[15:42] <gonzo__> (bacon rolls in tin foil in a cool box)
[15:42] <eroomde> there is a tradition to uphold in hab launches
[15:42] <AndyEsser> "Hello Dominoes Pizza? Will you deliver to a field?"
[15:42] <eroomde> the bacon sandwich
[15:42] <AndyEsser> fsphil: is there a ferry between NI and nearish me?
[15:42] <eroomde> it's like champagne at a ship launch
[15:42] <AndyEsser> do I have to spill ketchup/brown sauce on the HAB ?
[15:42] <AndyEsser> to christen it?
[15:42] <eroomde> no, that might weaken the latex
[15:42] <AndyEsser> sorry, meant the payload
[15:43] <AndyEsser> not the balloon
[15:43] <fsphil> there's a ferry to liverpool from belfast
[15:43] <eroomde> but srs, a bacon buttie before a launch, and a thermos of black coffee, is a wonderful thing
[15:43] <AndyEsser> yea
[15:43] <AndyEsser> so looking forward to my first launch :)
[15:44] <fsphil> can only be brown sauce though
[15:44] <fsphil> HP to be exact
[15:44] <AndyEsser> Will get my brother to come along, and the MD with the works drone and get some awesome HD footage along with it :)
[15:44] <AndyEsser> fsphil: +1
[15:46] <eroomde> i got some really nice streaky bacon recently
[15:46] <eroomde> did it on the griddle pan
[15:46] <AndyEsser> eww
[15:46] <eroomde> it looked and tasted great
[15:46] <AndyEsser> do you burn your bacon to a crisp as well?
[15:46] <eroomde> yes
[15:46] <AndyEsser> why even bother having bacon
[15:46] <eroomde> well, i get it just right
[15:47] <AndyEsser> still a bit pink and soft and juicy
[15:47] <eroomde> which is with lots of cripy bits
[15:47] <AndyEsser> but... Sausage > Bacon
[15:47] <AndyEsser> :)
[15:47] <eroomde> no
[15:47] <AndyEsser> FYI - there's nothing on the UKHAS wiki about bacon butties!
[15:47] <AndyEsser> :P
[15:47] <eroomde> you have wrong opinions about absolutely everything AndyEsser
[15:47] <eroomde> windows vs linux
[15:47] <eroomde> python
[15:47] <eroomde> sausages vs bacon
[15:47] <AndyEsser> eroomde: hold on
[15:47] <AndyEsser> I have never said Windows > Linux
[15:47] <AndyEsser> I work in Linux daily
[15:47] <fsphil> bacon needs to be crispy
[15:47] <AndyEsser> I'm speaking to you via a linux box atm
[15:48] <eroomde> vim vs Visual Enterprise Studio XP Plus millenium edition
[15:48] <AndyEsser> nano > vim
[15:48] <AndyEsser> ;)
[15:48] <eroomde> jesus
[15:48] <AndyEsser> actually, if you're in a graphical environment
[15:48] <AndyEsser> then Sublime Text
[15:48] <eroomde> nano:vim :: chisel:CNC_mill
[15:48] <AndyEsser> but command line - nano
[15:48] <AndyEsser> ha
[15:49] <AndyEsser> eroomde: at the end of the day - if we both get to where we need to be - does it matter how we got there?
[15:49] <eroomde> vim is better than all of those and available in graphical or command line just the same
[15:49] <adamgreig> sometimes the journey is what matters ;)
[15:49] <eroomde> yes! the journey
[15:50] <AndyEsser> I'm not going to argue this because I know that I'm outnumbered - and vim works for you guys - I'm not going to try and convert you
[15:50] <AndyEsser> but I don't like using it
[15:50] <eroomde> look at the muggle thinking he might be able to convert the wizards
[15:50] <eroomde> how sweet
[15:50] <AndyEsser> eroomde: did you read what I said decide to interpret the exact opposites?
[15:51] <AndyEsser> +and
[15:51] <AndyEsser> -s
[15:51] <AndyEsser> ffs
[15:51] <AndyEsser> cold hands
[15:51] <eroomde> the notion that there was room to try and you merely decided not to was what amused me
[15:51] <RealBorg> eroomde, I proudly use vim since 1995
[15:51] <AndyEsser> I wasn't attempting to try
[15:51] <eroomde> no indeed
[15:51] <AndyEsser> eroomde: aww look - you and RealBorg share something in common
[15:51] <AndyEsser> :)
[15:52] Action: fsphil abandons vim
[15:52] <AndyEsser> fsphil: Good... Good... Come to the dark side!
[15:52] <fsphil> I have to use vim, it's in my callsign
[15:52] <eroomde> the dark side is emacs
[15:52] <eroomde> it's definitely not sublime or whatever
[15:53] <fsphil> the kylo ren of editors
[15:53] <RealBorg> nano is just pico on steroids
[15:53] <eroomde> vim vs emacs is luke skywalker vs darth vader. adding sublime or visual studio to the mix is like giving a kid a plastic dagger and putting them into a 3-way with luke and darth
[15:53] <AndyEsser> You're going all out on your film references this afternoon
[15:53] <RealBorg> nice metapher
[15:54] <fsphil> visual studio is jar jar binks
[15:54] <eroomde> editor flamewars is the nearest i come to live action roleplay
[15:54] <eroomde> i don't actually give a shit
[15:54] <AndyEsser> shall we discuss linux distros now?
[15:55] <RealBorg> or databases
[15:55] <AndyEsser> Postgres > everything else
[15:55] <AndyEsser> (unless you happen to have the money for Oracle)
[15:55] <fsphil> yes postgres. there are other ones?
[15:55] <eroomde> i mean, obviously you're wrong if you think not vim, but i don't spend time worrying about the fact that you're wrong. You're free to just carry on on your personal jounrey (being wrong) and eventually getting where you want to be (more slowly and more wrongly that you would have with vim)
[15:55] <RealBorg> AndyEsser, now I share something in common with you
[15:55] <AndyEsser> I installed mysql earlier today
[15:55] <AndyEsser> felt dirty
[15:56] <AndyEsser> I had to deal with a MySQL database as part of my interview with Sony...
[15:56] <AndyEsser> that almost made me leave
[15:56] <AndyEsser> that and Ruby
[15:56] <AndyEsser> eroomde: how diplomatic
[15:56] <eroomde> it is quite
[15:56] <eroomde> for me
[15:57] <RealBorg> I have to use mysql at work, i consider it a parody of a relational database
[15:57] <AndyEsser> You make me seem happy and cheerful
[16:00] <fsphil> mars express making a close fly-by of phobos tomorrow. I'd forgotten mars express existed
[16:00] <eroomde> i did try emacs once
[16:00] <eroomde> basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5jNeE7aT0M
[16:01] <AndyEsser> ha\ha\
[16:01] <AndyEsser> I need to keep this favourited
[16:01] <BrainDamage> http://www.informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html
[16:02] <Flutterbat> modal interface feel archaic
[16:02] <Flutterbat> feels
[16:03] <Flutterbat> but i wasnt able to figure out how to create tabs in emacs in 5mins, so i opted for vim
[16:04] <eroomde> i'm not sure how model is archaic
[16:05] <eroomde> unless you mean that mice were invented after vi and so using a mouse to navigate is a modern idea, relatively spleaking
[16:06] <Flutterbat> it feels annoying. emacs works just as well without introducing this extra piece of complexity
[16:07] <eroomde> it's less complex than emacs though. There's less to remember, and its easier to compose your own commands
[16:07] <eroomde> and none of its power users get injuries from using it
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[16:08] <eroomde> i think you're confusing simpleness/complexity with familiarity
[16:08] <Flutterbat> eroomde: im not
[16:08] <eroomde> you are
[16:08] <eroomde> (see how this goes?)
[16:08] <Flutterbat> you always end up spamming ESC to make sure you really are where you think you are
[16:09] <Flutterbat> eroomde: difference is, i know, you dont
[16:09] <eroomde> you might
[16:09] <eroomde> i don't
[16:09] <Flutterbat> correct
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[16:16] <fsphil> I now imagine people storming off and doors slamming
[16:17] <fsphil> uh-oh, things you don't want to see after running git rebase, "git-am: line 881: 27674 Killed"
[16:17] <eroomde> he'll come round when he learns how to use his tools better
[16:17] <eroomde> (or she, ofc)
[16:17] <AndyEsser> *shudders* at rebase
[16:25] <fsphil> nothing lost thankfully
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[16:27] <Evya98> Hello everyone. Where can I buy a high altitude balloon?
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[16:29] <Evya98> what is the smallest size of parachute??
[16:29] <fsphil> you can buy balloons and chutes from http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
[16:29] <JK_> Depends on the weight
[16:29] <Evya98> 2 kg
[16:30] <JK_> ok, i will calculate it with a sinkrate of 4 m/s
[16:30] <AndyEsser> Evya98: that page has a calculator at the bottom to help you work out what size balloon and parachute you need etc
[16:31] <JK_> i see, so you don't need a calculation anymore
[16:32] <JK_> :)
[16:32] <Evya98> thank you!!!
[16:34] <BARC> balloons and chutes and a bunch of other stuff also available from sentintospace.com (forgive the name!)
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[16:37] <Evya98> BTW.. the size of the parachutes are inches. is this a diameter?
[16:38] <fsphil> usually yeah
[16:38] <JK_> Yes
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[16:38] <JK_> Is anyone here familiar with antennas for 869.5Mhz?
[16:39] <daveake> For spherachutes it's 1/2 the circumference
[16:39] <daveake> http://spherachutes.com/images/parachutemeasure.jpg
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[16:41] <AndyEsser> on the habhub tracker, for basestations - is it the callsign that's displayed at the top?
[16:41] <AndyEsser> ie G3WDI?
[16:42] <daveake> It's whatever you put into dl-fldigi as your callsign
[16:42] <AndyEsser> yep sorry - that's indirectly what I was asking ;)
[16:43] <daveake> Just something unique so we know it's you :)
[16:43] <AndyEsser> FBIListeningVan
[16:43] <BARC> There's only one size of chute on http://sentintospace.com but 50" diameter and they're only 80g
[16:46] <Evya98> daveake, if i understand correctly, the size that is written, is half the circumference?
[16:46] <daveake> That is what I said !
[16:48] <JK_> Has anyone experiences with suitable antennas for groundstations? I want to receive a Morse-Code transmission at 869.5Mhz, using a DVB-T Stick and SDR# as well as fldigi. I tried to build a Bi-Quad antenna, made of copper wire, but receiving does not work as well as i expected. Are there better antennas that i could build on my own?
[16:49] <Evya98> Pi*r = size ? [sorry JK]
[16:50] <daveake> yes
[16:52] <Evya98> daveake, thank you.
[16:59] <Evya98> about the balloon. Is it comes with a rope? if yes, what kind?
[17:01] <BARC> generally not
[17:01] <BARC> you'd just get the balloon in a box/packet
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[17:14] <craag> JK_: I've previously just used a home-made 1/4 wave for 868MHz
[17:14] <craag> That worked well
[17:16] <AndyEsser> right... lets get this i2c fixed
[17:20] <Evya98> where can I get a relay 5v to 9-12v for the arduino-hot wire mechanism?
[17:22] <AndyEsser> 12v relay you can get from any component supplier - couple it with a NPN transitor like a 2N2222 to trigger out - voial
[17:22] <AndyEsser> voila*
[17:22] <AndyEsser> daveake: o look... i2c works
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[17:23] <habby> Hi Dave! Is it worth me messing with tracker.c to include SenseHat data in the RTTY sentence? Or (hopefully!) are you close to releasing that with an update?
[17:24] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:24] <mfa298> Evya98: or potentially replace the relay and transistor with a suitable mosfet
[17:25] <AndyEsser> mfa298: bah, fancy pants mosfets
[17:25] <AndyEsser> :P
[17:26] <daveake> AndyEsser cool, what a good guess that was :p
[17:26] <AndyEsser> daveake: indeed
[17:26] <AndyEsser> I knew aobut the Read = 1 bit... but think I was setting the MSB
[17:26] <AndyEsser> rather than shift + LSB
[17:26] <daveake> ah
[17:27] Action: AndyEsser is a muppet
[17:27] <AndyEsser> :)
[17:27] <daveake> Evya98 most people use a mosfet for that
[17:27] <AndyEsser> now to read this stuff into a buffer and process it, then should able to get the actual GPS co-ords sent over RF :)
[17:28] <Vaizki> well there's a lot of new stuff coming your way when doing a tracker :)
[17:28] <daveake> You can get them with something like 60A rating (which is plenty!) and very low on resistance, switchable from a 3.3V logic signal
[17:28] <Lunar_Lander> mosfets a nice
[17:28] <daveake> habby Yeah not far off. Just need a test flight.
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[17:28] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: the reading into a buffer and processing is just the same as doing anything over a network and stuff :)
[17:28] <AndyEsser> so that shouldn't be too much issue
[17:28] <Vaizki> Andy, do not use floats. Do not parse the numbers actually, just copy the strings
[17:29] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: that's all I was going to do :)
[17:29] <Vaizki> no I mean in general
[17:29] <Lunar_Lander> floats on AVR are crappy
[17:29] <AndyEsser> Lunar_Lander: yep - already discovered that
[17:29] <Vaizki> Yes and you will expose yourself to zero meridian and scaling bugs :)
[17:29] <Vaizki> Leading zeros etc
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[17:30] <Lunar_Lander> I did a dirty trick
[17:30] <Lunar_Lander> I multiply all my temperature and such by 100 to get a whole number
[17:31] <Vaizki> I did a dirty trick too, sending ubx message ints directly and scaling on habhub side
[17:31] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[17:32] <Vaizki> Even div by 10 is crappy on avr
[17:32] <DoYouKnow> hi. I see we are discussing ublox
[17:32] <Vaizki> Div by 2^N is easy
[17:32] <DoYouKnow> does anyone here know how to tune the ublox?
[17:33] <DoYouKnow> I wanted to tune and generate an fft for NOAA weather satellites
[17:33] <DoYouKnow> oon 1698
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> Or don't use AVR
[17:33] <DoYouKnow> I already figured out how to generate an fft
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> 32 bit makes things lots less painful.
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> (but AVR is quite adequate used properly)
[17:34] <AndyEsser> *sigh*
[17:34] <DoYouKnow> man, the ublox are great chipsets
[17:34] <DoYouKnow> for satellite stuff
[17:34] <DoYouKnow> good LNA gain
[17:34] <DoYouKnow> low noise
[17:35] <AndyEsser> http://imgur.com/9eEtROd
[17:35] <AndyEsser> DAMN YOU CHARACTER! TELL ME WHAT YOU ARE!
[17:35] <DoYouKnow> I am actually making a portable box for receiving satellites
[17:35] <DoYouKnow> it will use LOTS of gain
[17:35] <DoYouKnow> 64dB
[17:35] <DoYouKnow> low noise cabling
[17:36] <DoYouKnow> 2 filters
[17:36] <DoYouKnow> minimum detectable signal will be -152 dBm
[17:36] <DoYouKnow> with the receiver
[17:38] <DoYouKnow> L-band
[17:38] <DoYouKnow> well, -152 dB around 1675 MHz
[17:38] <DoYouKnow> it's mainly for GOES/NOAA obs
[17:40] <habby> thanks daveake, will keep my ears open
[17:40] <habby> away
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[17:54] <AndyEsser> is $GNGGA a good message for me to use from Ublox for data?
[17:54] <AndyEsser> is would people recommend the $GNRMC?
[17:55] <AndyEsser> s/is/or
[17:57] <daveake> RMC doesn't have altitude
[17:57] <SpeedEvil> http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm#nmea
[17:57] <SpeedEvil> but that
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> RMC doesn't have speed over ground in knots though
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> does
[18:01] <daveake> yeah that's why I use both
[18:01] <daveake> few people though bother with speed/bearing
[18:01] <AndyEsser> Ah ok - well I can easily enough adapt my code to listen for both :)
[18:01] <AndyEsser> however, currently have it trapping the GNGGA message and sending that out to UART when it's received
[18:02] <AndyEsser> Step 1 done
[18:02] <AndyEsser> time to break it apart for the relevant data
[18:02] <AndyEsser> and then send it over RTTY :)
[18:02] Nick change: Steffann -> Steffanx
[18:02] <AndyEsser> gah... although... as soon as I sit down the GPS loses its lock :(
[18:02] <AndyEsser> I need some longer cables
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[18:25] <Evya98> where can i buy helium?
[18:26] <AndyEsser> What country are you in?
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[18:28] <RealBorg> linde.com
[18:29] <fsphil> heh
[18:30] <fsphil> israel apparently
[18:30] <daveake> that's a tricky place for hab
[18:31] <daveake> not much distance east-west
[18:31] <daveake> also, chance of landing at -ve altitude :)
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[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> I think a zeppelin at the dead sea still holds the FAI world record for lowest altitude
[18:37] <daveake> It'd be a cool place to launch from
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> btw dave, we look to launch at feb 9 :)
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[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> hope the people at the air bureau got the request
[18:37] <daveake> cool
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[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> wow
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> BBC2 brings back robot wars
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> never would have dreamt of that
[18:46] <Vaizki> \o/
[18:46] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2016/robot-wars-returns
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> maybe because battlebots returned last year in the US
[18:48] <Vaizki> I always rooted for hypnodisc
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[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> the one team that had an awesome bot that never won IIRC
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> (I mean they never were champs)
[18:51] <fsphil> had a look for an application form but don't see one. they might not be accepting teams like they used to, maybe selecting them themselves
[18:51] <Vaizki> yea they never won any series etc
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[18:52] <fsphil> they always removed hypnodisc's sound. dunno why
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> it says the series was announced only today
[18:52] <fsphil> you could hear it sometimes when they where doing the interviews in the pits
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> was it really loud=
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[18:53] <fsphil> lemme see if I can find a clip
[18:53] <fsphil> it has this amazing charging up sound
[18:53] <fsphil> as the disc got faster
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> nice :)
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[18:57] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzraVXP-5KQ
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> that was awesome
[18:57] <fsphil> wheeeeeee BANG
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> S3 and S4 were the only ones shown in DE btw
[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> and then later the first series of german competitors
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> (IIRC that was parallel to S6)
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> where HD was beaten by a german bot consisting of a shopping cart body IIRC
[18:59] <fsphil> yeah it was only good against robots with thin shells :)
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> the bot after that in the video also was awesome
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> stealth I think
[18:59] <Lunar_Lander> was smashed just like that
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> btw what did you think about the S1 and S2 concept?
[19:00] <fsphil> S1, with clarkson. I just about remember that
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> where he asked a teenager (I think) "did you pull that from a bin?"
[19:00] <fsphil> diplomatic as usual
[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> and the things with having more like "robotic sports" where the bots had to do other contests before fighting
[19:03] <AndyEsser> hmm... I received two GGA messages which had co-ords in... but didn't come through via RTTY
[19:03] Action: AndyEsser delves into code
[19:04] <fsphil> I quite liked that Lunar_Lander. not as TV friendly though
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:05] <Lunar_Lander> I saw the episodes (youtube) and it is quite interestign
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> still amazing
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[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> the man behind 101 who later made a walking bot that as far as I know fared quite well
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[19:11] <Vaizki> https://www.dropbox.com/s/g3nco097oeskuqr/Photo%2013.1.2016%2021.07.12.jpg?dl=0
[19:11] <Vaizki> Calibration ok
[19:12] <Vaizki> fiddly thing with a trim pot in the back
[19:15] <fsphil> all the zeros
[19:16] <fsphil> what else is in the stack?
[19:17] <AndyEsser> $$EAD-PLS-00,1,00:00:00,5311.69154,00254.22086,10.8
[19:17] <AndyEsser> :)
[19:17] <fsphil> woo
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[19:26] <Vaizki> fsphil, it's just connected to a eBay cheap I gpsdo
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> btw X-files returns as well
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> from february on, six episodes
[19:28] <fsphil> I enjoyed the first two series of that
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:33] <fsphil> would be neat to see them to this for other shows
[19:33] <fsphil> wouldn't mind seeing a bit more farscape
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[19:38] <Vaizki> fsphil: the problem with having more than one 10MHz oscillator is you never know which one is correct :)
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> btw do you know ashens?
[19:38] <Vaizki> so I arbitrarily decided that the GPSDO is mostest probabliest correct
[19:39] <fsphil> hah
[19:41] <Vaizki> it is a diy hack job from ebay, built from trimble and symmetricom parts it seems
[19:41] <Vaizki> but it agrees to within 0.004Hz of my siggen ocxo which tells me it's most probably not horribly wrong
[19:42] <Vaizki> and actually does some gps d on the o.. :)
[19:44] <Vaizki> any guesses how I measured a 0.004Hz frequency difference at 10MHz?
[19:45] <fsphil> phase difference after a while?
[19:45] <Vaizki> yea, I put both of them on a scope and measured how long it takes to get a one cycle difference
[19:45] <Vaizki> 4min8sec for the sine wave to crawl one waveform forward rel to the triggered one
[19:47] <Vaizki> not often that I measure rf-level stuff with the iphone stopwatch...
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[20:15] <gonzo_nb> we are happy to leave pc psu's running, and they are also cheap and from .cn
[20:16] <gonzo_nb> ffs, this client insists on coming up on a chat from the start of it's buffer
[20:16] <gonzo_nb> so that was a reply to something days ago
[20:20] <Vaizki> naah it was from this morning
[20:20] Action: Vaizki realizes he follows the channel way too mych
[20:21] <Vaizki> and now to distract you, I will share some crazy norwegians.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l285JDSiOOo
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[20:37] <AndyEsser> *sigh* still no lock...
[20:37] <AndyEsser> time to go butcher a network cable for some length
[20:38] <Vaizki> no gps lock?
[20:38] <AndyEsser> yea - because of where the module is - it can't really see the sky too wel
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> AndyEsser: Or just do some googling and find a NMEA dump
[20:40] <AndyEsser> SpeedEvil: that doesn't provide an end-to-end test
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[20:40] <SpeedEvil> true
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[20:52] <AndyEsser> right, there we go - an extra 2 metres wiggle room with the GPS receiver now
[20:52] <AndyEsser> hopefully stick it right against the window helps
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[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> yay :)
[20:53] <AndyEsser> and then to deal with the joy of converting the GPS coords
[20:54] <Vaizki> no.. no :)
[20:54] <fsphil> you could just be lazy and copy them :p
[20:54] <Vaizki> just copy!
[20:54] <AndyEsser> but...
[20:54] <Vaizki> lazy & smart :)
[20:54] <fsphil> lol
[20:54] <AndyEsser> they come out in DMS format
[20:55] <AndyEsser> and I didn't think hahhub was happy with that?
[20:55] <fsphil> it is
[20:55] <fsphil> it's an ugly horrible format
[20:55] <Vaizki> sure it is
[20:55] <fsphil> but it will work
[20:55] <AndyEsser> so I just send like 5411.245N
[20:55] <AndyEsser> or whatever
[20:55] <AndyEsser> it'll work?
[20:55] <Vaizki> yes
[20:55] <fsphil> well, dunno about the N/S
[20:55] <Vaizki> hmm true
[20:55] <fsphil> it might need +/- prefix
[20:55] <AndyEsser> fsphil: well I'd have to include the N/S and E/W component surely...
[20:55] <fsphil> S is negative
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[20:55] <fsphil> same with W
[20:55] <AndyEsser> or literally just do N = +, W = -?
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[20:56] <AndyEsser> sigh... not even getting a time coming into the GPS now
[20:56] <AndyEsser> :(
[20:56] <Vaizki> gps time is a wonderful thing
[20:56] <fsphil> or go ubx. they're simple int32_t's
[20:57] <fsphil> fixed decimal values
[20:57] <AndyEsser> fsphil: recieving the data isn't the issue
[20:57] <fsphil> very handy
[20:57] <AndyEsser> ah right, you mean for the co-ords?
[20:57] <fsphil> yeah
[20:57] <AndyEsser> it's found time!
[20:57] <Vaizki> you should not rebuke the ublox but instead praise it when it finally figures out utc time
[20:57] <AndyEsser> does that mean... soon I'll have a lock, amybe
[20:57] <Vaizki> because it will be very very very accurate
[20:57] <AndyEsser> heh
[20:57] <Vaizki> yes usually
[20:57] <fsphil> it can take a few minutes
[20:58] <Vaizki> you see every time you unplug it, you cold start it
[20:58] <fsphil> needs to download all the satellite position data
[20:58] <Vaizki> it looses ephemeris etc data
[20:58] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: yeaI know
[20:58] <fsphil> which comes down at 50 bits/s :)
[20:58] <fsphil> yay 50 baud
[20:58] <AndyEsser> the datasheet says 27 seconds from cold start to lock
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[20:58] <AndyEsser> 50 baud != 50 bps
[20:58] <AndyEsser> :P
[20:58] <fsphil> it does in this case
[20:58] <Vaizki> it can be
[20:58] <AndyEsser> no start or stop bits?
[20:58] <fsphil> if it's 1 bit/symbol
[20:58] <Vaizki> 8-15min is what I see in cold start usually
[20:58] <fsphil> rtty is still 50 bit/s
[20:59] <fsphil> it's just not all bits are data
[20:59] <Vaizki> baud means symbols per sec
[20:59] <Vaizki> and symbol can be 1..N bits
[20:59] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: yes, but typically when talking about bits per second or whatever - it's the data you're referring to
[20:59] <AndyEsser> not the packet headers
[20:59] <Vaizki> no it includes framing and ecc
[20:59] <AndyEsser> anyway - not really an important discussion ;)
[21:00] <Vaizki> in this case
[21:00] <fsphil> esp. for the slower modes. makes them sound better
[21:00] <Vaizki> phone modems were 1bit per symbol up to 1200 baud I think
[21:00] <Vaizki> so 1200baud=1200bps
[21:01] <Vaizki> then they moved to multiple bits per transitions so the bps and baud rates diverged
[21:01] <Vaizki> but people still talk about 9600 and 28800 baud modems :)
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[21:03] <Vaizki> not sure what is the "most bits per symbol" modulation in widespread use today..
[21:04] <Vaizki> probably QAM-4096 ..
[21:04] <Vaizki> or ADSL-whatver
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[21:39] <AndyEsser> nearly an hour with no lock...
[21:39] <AndyEsser> beginning to think extending the cable to the ubx means the voltage drop is affecting it
[21:43] <eroomde> photo
[21:43] <eroomde> show us one
[21:43] <AndyEsser> of what?
[21:43] <eroomde> the ublox and its cable
[21:43] <eroomde> and its position relative to the pcb and antenna
[21:43] <AndyEsser> I'll struggle to fit that in a photo ;)
[21:43] <AndyEsser> two secs
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[21:51] <AndyEsser> http://imgur.com/DJS6st5
[21:52] <AndyEsser> eroomde: Green box is the location of the breadboard with my AVR, NTX2B etc
[21:52] <eroomde> yeah ok just show me a cloup of the gps
[21:52] <AndyEsser> red box is the Ublox breakout board (hanging off the helping hands) with the antenna pointed out of the window
[21:52] <eroomde> closeup*
[21:53] <AndyEsser> how close?
[21:53] <eroomde> are the serial messages coming through alright, but just contain the info that there's no lock> or are the serial messages themselves corrcupted?
[21:53] <eroomde> so i can see the pcb
[21:53] <AndyEsser> o yea
[21:53] <AndyEsser> I'm getting the i2c messages coming through fine
[21:53] <AndyEsser> $GNGGA,215322.00,,,,,0,03,99.99,,,,,,*7E
[21:53] <eroomde> basically my first thought is that something down a long combined signal and power cable definitely wants good decoupling at the gps end
[21:54] <eroomde> because the power lines will be running next to the data lines and picking up all sorts
[21:54] <eroomde> and the voltage drop, as you say
[21:54] <eroomde> in such a situation i would have a good small decouling cap and a large bult capacitance
[21:54] <eroomde> 10u or something
[21:54] <eroomde> possible a ferrite then the 10u, but that might be guilding the lilly
[21:55] <AndyEsser> I might just revert to the setup I had but see how I can run the serial + programmer cables over to it
[21:55] <AndyEsser> seems simpler ;)
[21:55] <AndyEsser> I can't really get a photo of the PCB
[21:55] <AndyEsser> good photo*
[21:56] <eroomde> well, if you have a big old electrolytic capacitor lying around, just put it across +V and Gnd at the gps connecot end
[21:56] <eroomde> that's the easy fix
[21:56] <AndyEsser> I don't though :)
[21:56] <eroomde> o
[21:56] <eroomde> don;t then
[21:56] <AndyEsser> I might just assume my code is ok for the moment - detach the serial debug and the programmer cables and move the whole thing :)
[21:56] <AndyEsser> I have an RF link to get data :)
[22:00] <Vaizki> the picture must be fake, there's a house plant in it
[22:01] <Vaizki> have fun with your debugging, would be so much easier with that scope..
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[22:02] <Vaizki> anyway, off to sleep with me&
[22:02] <AndyEsser> heh - I have 2 plants in my office
[22:02] <AndyEsser> both are likely dead
[22:02] <AndyEsser> night
[22:02] <eroomde> yes i was gonna say
[22:02] <eroomde> a scope would just answer the q
[22:02] <AndyEsser> It's on it's way!
[22:02] <eroomde> 'how much noise on VCC?' 'This much'
[22:02] <eroomde> FIN
[22:03] <eroomde> you will love it when you have it
[22:03] <AndyEsser> I'm sure I will
[22:03] <AndyEsser> Did really appreciate how invaluable they are when I was at school
[22:03] <AndyEsser> Didn't*
[22:03] <eroomde> it's the one tool you want
[22:03] <eroomde> blind without it
[22:03] <AndyEsser> but then, at school I was much more a "Lets just keep trying until it works"
[22:04] <AndyEsser> instead of my more recent "Give me as much data as possible"
[22:04] <eroomde> tho it's absurd to judge someone by how they were as a teenager, given that's the last time i saw you, it's v good how this time you've just decided you want to build a hab and got on with it
[22:05] <AndyEsser> I was an annoying little sh*t when I was a teenager ;)
[22:05] <eroomde> you said it
[22:05] <AndyEsser> now I'm just a miserable, cynical guy
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[22:08] <AndyEsser> eroomde: building a hab and launching it basically combines all my current interests and is also just freaking cool
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[22:09] <zyp> I'm inclined to disagree with «the one tool you want»
[22:09] <zyp> there's a bunch of tools I might trade my scope for if I have to pick
[22:10] <eroomde> if you could only have one tool?
[22:10] <eroomde> really?
[22:10] <eroomde> i mean one bit of measurement equipment
[22:10] <eroomde> not like side cutters
[22:12] <zyp> it's arguably the most well rounded measurement equipment
[22:12] <AndyEsser> hmm, now wondering if I'm mishandled the ublox and buggered it up...
[22:12] <eroomde> don't touch the antena
[22:12] <zyp> but looking at the number of times I've used my scope the past few years vs the number of times I've used my LA, the LA leads by far
[22:13] <zyp> of course, that all goes out the window if you get a scope with LA
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[22:14] <AndyEsser> eroomde: don't think I have
[22:14] <AndyEsser> but haven't exactly been precious with it
[22:15] <eroomde> thankfully there is more than one gps
[22:15] <AndyEsser> well not concerned about finding a new GPS - just need a replacement
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[22:15] <AndyEsser> although I do have another ublox chip here anyway
[22:16] <AndyEsser> it's just f*cking tiny and I don't have the patience to solder it ;)
[22:20] <AndyEsser> co-ordinates!!!
[22:21] <AndyEsser> only took 100 messages before it came through...
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[22:36] <AndyEsser> btw - who do I speak to about submitting a payload document?
[22:37] <adamgreig> you just do it
[22:37] <adamgreig> payload docs don't need approving or anything
[22:37] <AndyEsser> hmm
[22:37] <AndyEsser> wiki says this: Fill out the form here :Payload Document Generator the come and see us on IRC to get it added.
[22:37] <adamgreig> the flight documents need approving (on #habhub)
[22:38] <AndyEsser> right ok
[22:38] <AndyEsser> so if I've created the payload document
[22:38] <AndyEsser> and hook fl-digi up, it should 'just work'?
[22:39] <adamgreig> yep
[22:39] <AndyEsser> sahweeyt
[22:39] <AndyEsser> :)
[22:39] <AndyEsser> tis my plan to get that going before I head off tonight
[22:39] <fl_0> AndyEsser: be sure to look under "all payloads / testing"
[22:39] <fl_0> to find it
[22:40] <AndyEsser> just to need to figure out why my longitude isn't having a - prepended to it
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[22:52] <Evidlo> Is hydrogen really that dangerous to use in HABs?
[22:52] <Evidlo> for amateurs
[22:53] <adamgreig> no
[22:54] <AndyEsser> should fldigi be populating the Time/Latitude/Longitude textboxes at the time if it's decoding properly?
[22:54] <AndyEsser> at the top*
[22:54] <Evidlo> Why do people seem so afraid to use it?
[22:54] <Evidlo> Also what happens if a large balloon ignites somehow?
[22:56] <adamgreig> yes AndyEsser
[22:56] <adamgreig> it would burn Evidlo
[22:56] <adamgreig> mostly people aren't that afraid to use it
[22:57] <adamgreig> lot of people do use it
[22:57] <adamgreig> it's obviously not as inert as helium and sometimes you want to pay the money to not take the risk
[22:57] <Evidlo> adamgreig: and if you were standing under it?
[22:59] <adamgreig> probably the fire would go upwards, it tends to
[22:59] <adamgreig> don't think it's very easy to ignite in general
[23:00] <adamgreig> pure hydrogen is apparently a pain (since fire needs oxygen) and once it's well enough mixed it's probably also well dispersed
[23:00] <adamgreig> shrug, I'm no expert on hydrogen balloons, but a lot of people here use them very safely and mostly it's common sense
[23:02] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: hmm, it seems to poplate the callsign field - and says the checksum is good, but doesn't fill in the others
[23:02] <AndyEsser> time to review my payload doc
[23:02] <adamgreig> check logtail
[23:02] <adamgreig> http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail
[23:02] <AndyEsser> ah validation errors
[23:03] <AndyEsser> doesn't like my GPS co-ords
[23:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EAD-PLS-00 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EAD-PLS-00
[23:07] <AndyEsser> \o/
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[23:09] <AndyEsser> That's so cool :)
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[23:11] <AndyEsser> fsphil / adamgreig / eroomde / Vaizki - thanks for all your help over the last couple days with this stuff
[23:11] <AndyEsser> really happy I've got an end-to-end test working :)
[23:11] <AndyEsser> can start looking at designing and laying out a PCB to get manufactured now :)
[23:11] <adamgreig> nice :)
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:13] <AndyEsser> still not appearing in the text fields in fldigi - but it appears on the tracker - that's the important thing :)
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[23:23] <AndyEsser> right - soak test set up
[23:23] <mfa298> AndyEsser: you might need to select your payload doc in fldigi for the lat/long/time fields to be displayed
[23:23] <AndyEsser> time for me to head off to bed
[23:23] <AndyEsser> mfa298: ah ok
[23:24] <mfa298> but well done on appearing on the map (and hopefully in the right place)
[23:24] <AndyEsser> mfa298: yep - it's 'hovering' right over my house
[23:24] <AndyEsser> ah there we go the fields populate now
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