highaltitude.log.20160107

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[00:21] <SpeedEvil> I'm much more annoyed that I'm stuck at .5 than 3.5, in general.
[00:21] <SpeedEvil> (down vs up)
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[01:23] <Laurenceb_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop_Transportation_Technologies
[01:23] <Laurenceb_> these guys got trolled
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[01:41] <tweetBot> @OurTestMonk: OurTestMonk: OurTestMonk: OurTestMonk: OurTestMonk: smithmarie55: Whooo by B H https://t.co/GSphjSCZ85 via Etsy #YoGeekySoHot #kprs #UKHas&
[01:58] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Or VCs
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[08:12] <Vaizki> a crispy morning to ye all
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[08:17] <eroomde> http://www.techspot.com/news/63381-weird-part-ces-includes-human-transporting-drone-ehang.html
[08:17] <eroomde> blimey
[08:18] <Vaizki> blimey indeed, -27.5
[08:18] <eroomde> that could possibly be, so far, the least power-efficient way of transporting a human in history
[08:18] <Vaizki> oh well there's tea
[08:19] <Vaizki> also I wouldn't like to be in that thing when it loses a prop
[08:19] <Vaizki> it better make the landing on it's own because I'd be dead from flying bits of prop
[08:20] <eroomde> exactly
[08:21] <Vaizki> in terms of power efficiency I think the ArcaBoard may still take the cake
[08:22] <realborg> still better than the space shuttle
[08:23] <realborg> what's the weight of this thing?
[08:24] <eroomde> i guess a few hundred kg
[08:24] <Vaizki> mostly batteries
[08:27] <realborg> it it is lighter than 254 pounds they wouldn't need an faa permission
[08:27] <eroomde> i can't see how it could be
[08:28] <eroomde> i'd have thought more like double that, if they'd tried hard on mass
[08:28] <eroomde> and 3-4x that if they're throwing a prototype together from bits lying around
[08:28] <eroomde> though those props will be so inefficient it's probably getting marginal there
[08:29] <realborg> are these counter-rotational props?
[08:30] <eroomde> you can see they are by looking at the photo
[08:31] <realborg> i'd love to see performance figures of that thing
[08:31] <realborg> there is already an official website http://www.ehang.com/ehang184
[08:32] <eroomde> it's the eco-est
[08:32] <eroomde> lol
[08:32] <eroomde> what bollocks
[08:34] <realborg> it's electrical energy - you can use solar, water,...
[08:34] <eroomde> yes but lots of tiny props is stupidly inefficient compared to one big one
[08:34] <eroomde> like a normal helicopter
[08:34] <eroomde> regardless of where you get the power from
[08:35] <realborg> 100/200kg weight
[08:35] <realborg> big props have disadvantages
[08:36] <realborg> 14.4kwh battery it seems
[08:36] <eroomde> are you going to share the disadvantages?
[08:38] <Vaizki> well they are.. big..
[08:38] <realborg> gyroscopic effect, bad l/d on the inner part of the blades, transonic problems at high speeds,...
[08:38] <eroomde> no helicopter of that size is going to run into transonic problems
[08:39] <eroomde> and the efficiency is still higher than multiple smaller props regardless
[08:39] <eroomde> each of the smaller props has the same issues
[08:39] <realborg> i thought helicopters are limited by the speed of their forward-moving blade-tips
[08:41] <eroomde> so will this be
[08:41] <eroomde> but i doubt going to 300mph, or whatever the max heli speed is now, is a design driver for this pod
[08:42] <eroomde> Vaizki: i dpn't buy that at all
[08:42] <eroomde> that thing has about a 5m tip-to-tip dimension
[08:42] <eroomde> the mosquito (to pick a popular small helicopter) is 6m
[08:42] <eroomde> it's v similar
[08:43] <realborg> i already tried to click on "buy now"
[08:46] <Vaizki> eroomde, buy what at all?
[08:47] <Vaizki> oh that big props are big
[08:47] <Vaizki> it was a joke :D
[08:47] <Vaizki> or attempted.. my brain seized up at -27.5
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[09:04] <AndyEsser> morning
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[09:06] <UpuWork> morning
[09:06] <AndyEsser> UpuWork: your Order Update emails - are they hand written, or a template?
[09:07] <UpuWork> oh hand written valued customer #2876
[09:07] <AndyEsser> hehe
[09:07] <UpuWork> the text is template I just manually change the name and add any other info as required
[09:08] <AndyEsser> gotcha :)
[09:08] <AndyEsser> was just curious :)
[09:08] <UpuWork> so if it doesn't make sense or spelling mistakes thats me
[09:11] <AndyEsser> hehe, no no - it made perfect sense
[09:11] <AndyEsser> it just 'felt' slightly less like a template, that's all :)
[09:12] <AndyEsser> I mean... obivously I wasn't expecting "Yo! Dude from IRC! Your package is en route!"
[09:12] <AndyEsser> although that would've been amusing :)
[09:12] <R6mco> in the last 24 hrs I had 9 decodes here in Europe from PS-57 !
[09:13] <R6mco> its now in MH77
[09:13] <R6mco> eh...
[09:13] <R6mco> *MF77
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[09:36] <Vaizki> AndyEsser, well that would have been a completely nonspecific text for Upu.. :)
[09:37] <AndyEsser> hehe
[09:37] <Vaizki> although "dude" is a bit gender specific, let's not forget the women of HAB
[09:37] Action: Vaizki eyes around
[09:38] <AndyEsser> it's a shame I don't know more women in STEM, or have any idea how to try to change the lack gender balanced
[09:39] <Vaizki> I had to google STEM
[09:39] <AndyEsser> sorry :P
[09:39] <Vaizki> don't worry I learned a NFLA
[09:39] <AndyEsser> it's a term being thrown around a lot in the UK atm as there is a big push to try and get more women/girls into scientific/technical subjects and careers
[09:40] <Vaizki> NFLA = New Four Letter Acronym, it's a NFLA that I just made up
[09:40] Action: Vaizki is now caught in an infinite loop
[09:41] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: I figured that one out - I was familiar with TLA, so tried to guess :)
[09:41] <mfa298> Vaizki: also see ETLA - Extended Three Letter Acronym
[09:41] <cm13g09> mfa298: lol
[09:41] <AndyEsser> mfa298: xTLA
[09:42] <cm13g09> AndyEsser: damnit....
[09:42] <cm13g09> you beat me to it
[09:42] <AndyEsser> muahahaha
[09:43] <cm13g09> Definition of an xTLA: an extinct TLA, usually superseded by a ETLA.....
[09:43] <cm13g09> right AndyEsser ?
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[09:50] <Jartza> recursion: n. see recursion.
[09:51] <Vaizki> jartza, how cold at your place this morning? it seemed like an area that might get really chilly...
[09:52] <Vaizki> and do you already have a roof? :)
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[10:49] <nick_> AndyEsser: killing all the over 30s would help.
[10:49] <nick_> Or at least firing them all.
[10:50] <nick_> I think that's the only way to really get a gender balance quickly.
[10:51] <AndyEsser> ping o thank god... I don't quite fall into that bracket yet ;)
[10:51] <AndyEsser> o god...
[10:51] <AndyEsser> I'm 30 next year :(
[10:52] <nick_> Me too, which is why I set that limit.
[10:52] <AndyEsser> hehe
[10:52] <nick_> Actually I have a number of ideas that could help.
[10:52] <nick_> Mostly centred around making the academic career path less terrible.
[10:52] <eroomde> are you AndyEsser?
[10:52] <eroomde> oh shit i am too
[10:53] <eroomde> it's 2016 isn't it
[10:53] <nick_> I'm actually 30 this year.
[10:53] <nick_> But only for two days...
[10:53] <AndyEsser> eroomde: haha
[10:53] <gonzo_> I suspect that the 30 age is where women leave the workforce to have kids
[10:54] <nick_> gonzo_: that's definitely a factor.
[10:54] <gonzo_> so a cull would just result in a shortage of engineers in 20yrs. (shortage of anyone at all!)
[10:54] <nick_> Which is a real problem in a career path that doesn't have much of a chance of a permanent position before mid-30s.
[10:55] <gonzo_> permenant as in employed, rather than cointractor? Or as in a job for life?
[10:55] <fsphil> ban children?
[10:55] <gonzo_> I'd agree woith that
[10:55] <fsphil> would certainly solve many long term problems :)
[10:56] <nick_> The standard academic career involves a numer of short (<5 year) contracts.
[10:56] <AndyEsser> fsphil: might create a few new ones :P
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[10:56] <gonzo_> yep, there would not be a long term
[10:56] <AndyEsser> details :P
[10:56] <nick_> Usually 3 year, but 1/2 are not uncommon.
[10:56] <AndyEsser> that's future generations problem.... o
[10:56] <AndyEsser> :P
[10:57] <gonzo_> ok, our gen would have no-one to wipe our bums in the care home, but hey....
[10:57] <nick_> So taking 6 months out during a 3 year contract (which usually doesn't get extended by the 6 months) can really hurt your chances of getting another position.
[10:58] <gonzo_> even in permenant employment, things are not that long term
[10:58] <gonzo_> unless it's civil service/gov
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[10:58] <nick_> In permanent employment your chance of losing your employment is pretty low.
[10:58] <AndyEsser> I couldn't imagine being in one place for >5 years
[10:58] <gonzo_> not really
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[10:59] <gonzo_> I've been made redundant three times (twice from one co !)
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[11:00] <nick_> Being made redudant sucks, but in a healthy company it's very dificult to fire anyone unless they do something unethical.
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[11:01] <nick_> And I think that as soon as the terms of employment are not fixed it helps in terms of taking parental leave, even if the job is not super secure.
[11:01] <gonzo_> nope, if your face doesn't fit, or the work in that area runs out, your position can just dissapear
[11:01] <gonzo_> a good co will try and find a new post, but small/meduim co's may not be able to do that
[11:03] <nick_> But with fixed term contracts parental leave is very challenging.
[11:03] <gonzo_> even if they do, the new posn may not be as good as the job you were first taken on for
[11:03] <nick_> Noone will hire you if they know you'll miss 0.5-1 years of a 3 year job, so you can't go in pregnant.
[11:04] <nick_> You're chances of getting another job are close to zero if you take parental leave in the final year, when you're seeking a new position.
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[11:04] <nick_> So you only real chance is to do it in the middle year, which is where people usually get the productive work done that is the basis of their next job.
[11:10] <nick_> So the situation for academic STEM careers is pretty tough on women who would like to have children before they are in their 40s.
[11:11] <nick_> Which sucks, but at least will hopefully mean the solutions to the gender imbalance will also mean improving conditions for men, which I think is a much easier sell.
[11:12] <nick_> For example, a simple change would extend contracts by the amount of parental leave taken.
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[11:44] <Laurenceb_> sigh
[11:44] <Laurenceb_> I just discovered who is responsible for sentintospace.com
[11:45] <Laurenceb_> my dentist
[11:45] <russss> ...
[11:47] <Laurenceb_> sorry everyone
[11:47] <russss> what is it with the medical professions and high altitude balloons?
[11:47] <eroomde> did you have a go at him about poor practices whilst he had a drill in your mouth?
[11:48] <Laurenceb_> lol no I think I'll avoid smalltalk in future
[11:50] <Laurenceb_> http://sentintospace.com/products-page/electronics/duracell-plus-power-aa-batteries/#ad-image-0
[11:50] <Laurenceb_> nice duracells
[11:50] <eroomde> well it now makes sense that sentintospace is the more expensive, less competant way to do hab
[11:51] <eroomde> like the relationship between dentists and doctors
[11:51] <kokey> friend of ours works for a company that designs and makes display cases for stuff in retail shops
[11:52] <kokey> so the companies send them lots of products so they can fit it into the display stands, like the stuff that goes into retail shops, e.g. for lipstick or for perfume etc.
[11:52] <kokey> they get to keep a lot of that stuff
[11:52] <kokey> I got a huge bag of duracel AA and AAA batteries off him the other day
[11:53] <russss> the bulk packs of those duracell AAs are actually pretty reasonably priced
[11:53] <Laurenceb_> yeah but a real bad idea for HAB
[11:53] <russss> yeah
[11:53] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-57 after 037 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-57
[11:53] <Laurenceb_> same with SMS as anything other than a back up
[11:54] <kokey> anyone tried anything other the ublox for GPS?
[11:55] <kokey> I'm wondering if there's something cheaper
[11:55] <kokey> for a pico
[11:55] <eroomde> for a pico you have loads op options
[11:55] <Laurenceb_> sure, I'd suggest sirf
[11:55] <eroomde> because they don't get to high altitudes
[11:55] <Laurenceb_> it is lower power too
[11:55] <eroomde> take a look at the telit jupiter se880
[11:56] <Laurenceb_> iirc latest sirf has a 250µA low power mode
[11:56] <Laurenceb_> thatd be perfect for pico
[11:57] <kokey> oh goodie
[11:58] <kokey> so like the sirf chip based VK16E?
[11:58] <Laurenceb_> I'd check digikey
[11:59] <Laurenceb_> see whats new
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[12:00] <kokey> ok cool, thanks
[12:03] <Laurenceb_> http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/M10478-A1/627-1052-1-ND/3993158
[12:03] <Laurenceb_> that one is 500µA
[12:03] <Laurenceb_> but I'm not familiar with sirf binary protocol
[12:04] <Laurenceb_> not sure how open it is - it'd be needed to switch to micropower
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[12:07] <kokey> I'm going to test out one of these http://www.ebay.ie/itm//331640771498
[12:10] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> looks heavy.
[12:14] <kokey> 14 grams, they say
[12:15] <adamgreig> that's quite heavy as it goes :P
[12:15] <Chimpusmaximus> Has any one noticed any increased postage prices on Hab Supplies? UPU - have they changed?
[12:16] <adamgreig> the gps module i'm using is about 0.045g each...
[12:17] <adamgreig> 311 times lighter :P https://www.dropbox.com/sc/taxcnp9rm4nlwe6/AADa8x85cK2aS9x4TeSYADNXa
[12:18] <adamgreig> (admittedly that's without antenna and a couple passives :P)
[12:18] <kokey> nice, I suppose you don't need to use many party balloons
[12:18] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> yepp, the ublox is ligh, if u ad passive compon and antenna, max 0,5grams
[12:18] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> many?? one is all you need :)
[12:23] <kokey> hmmm, ublox neo-6m modules seem to go for cheap
[12:24] <kokey> looks heavy but I don't know if that's with the ceramic antenna they supply
[12:25] <kokey> yeah around 12g
[12:26] <R6mco> [13:07] <kokey> I'm going to test out one of these http://www.ebay.ie/itm//331640771498 <- does it have accurate (< 50 ns or so) PPS ?
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[12:29] <kokey> dunno, it's for a pico so I don't expect it to be found
[12:29] <kokey> well, except over radio
[12:29] <kokey> hence why I am looking into cheap and nasty
[12:33] <kokey> but yeah if I want to fly with a single balloon, I'll have to find some holy grail of cheap, nasty and light
[12:34] <kokey> and possible to solder by a drunk blind guy
[12:34] <kokey> I may not succeed
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[12:56] <UpuWork> hey Chimpusmaximus
[12:56] <UpuWork> not for a while
[12:56] <UpuWork> http://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/Royal-Mail-UK-and-international-parcel-and-letter-prices-30-March-2015.pdf
[12:57] <UpuWork> Small Parcel 1st Class Record = £4.40 + 20p for the packing
[12:57] <UpuWork> updated in March
[12:57] <UpuWork> 2015
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[13:17] <Chimpusmaximus> Cheers
[13:21] <Chimpusmaximus> i suspect i never really noticed before when spending a bit more. To much free postage from China don't help either.
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[13:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03car_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=car_chase
[13:45] <Jartza> Vaizki: it was -29°C today. I do have "roof". no insulation though
[13:50] <Vaizki> ack :)
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[14:04] <Flutterbat> Jartza: i had to remove ice from my car this morning, in evil 0°C
[14:06] <Laurenceb_> sigh
[14:06] <Laurenceb_> https://fsmedia.imgix.net/8b/6e/54/94/be55/4826/857c/a2e1d114f854/hyperloopgif.gif?dpr=1&auto=format&q=75
[14:12] <Laurenceb_> finally http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/06/gimp_2_9_2_review/
[14:12] <Laurenceb_> :D
[14:13] <AndyEsser> never really got on with GIMP
[14:13] <AndyEsser> might have to re-visit it
[14:15] <eroomde> i pay my monthly ransom to adobe
[14:15] <adamgreig> you have CS?
[14:16] <eroomde> just the photographers bundle for creating cloud
[14:16] <eroomde> lightroom and photoshop
[14:16] <eroomde> creative*
[14:16] <adamgreig> how much is that pm?
[14:17] <eroomde> of which i use lightroom all the time and photoshop never
[14:17] <eroomde> like £8
[14:17] <adamgreig> lightroom looks nice but darktable seems to do most of what i want
[14:17] <adamgreig> £8 is not terrible
[14:17] <russss> yeah I have the photography bundle too, photoshop occasionally comes in handy.
[14:17] <eroomde> it is really powerful.... i just don't really know how to use it
[14:18] <russss> lightroom is great
[14:18] <eroomde> yes i love it
[14:18] <eroomde> wouldn't be without
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[14:57] <Laurenceb_> <gordonjcp> Laurenceb_: no, building a RAID with floppy drives is a really good idea
[15:00] <Laurenceb_> a definition of good idea that I wasn't aware of
[15:01] <toresbe> Gordon has very particular ideas of what consitutes a good idea :)
[15:05] <R6mco> does anyone has email of the PS-57 owner ?
[15:05] <R6mco> can't find it
[15:07] <fsphil> I've gone off the idea of raids in general. too many failures
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[15:09] <mactunes> hi all, just wanted to give a quick update. some of you might remember that i was asking whether anyone has experience with the new EU regulations on unmanned balloons
[15:11] <mactunes> more specifically the regulation i am talking about is EU wide and is called: regulation (eu) no 923/2012
[15:13] <mactunes> due to this regulation i was denied the launch of two 500 gram balloons (total weight) in the German state of Northrhine westphalia. This is the sentence that caused the authorities to not allow the launch:
[15:13] <mactunes> "An unmanned free balloon shall not be operated in such a manner that impact of the balloon, or any part thereof, including its payload, with the surface of the earth, creates a hazard to persons or property."
[15:15] <mactunes> so the reasoning of the authority was that since no-one can prove that neither persons nor property will be hurt or damaged when a balloon lands.
[15:15] <gonzo_> did you have a chute on the application?
[15:15] <mactunes> yes, I did
[15:15] <mactunes> furthermore I reasoned that the payload was inside a light styrofoam box with the payload not weighing more than 150 grams
[15:16] <gonzo_> possibly having equiv chute and payload construction to met sondes, they could not refuse.
[15:17] <gonzo_> worth asking about how they treat met. As I assume they launch lots across the eu
[15:17] <mactunes> sorry for me asking, but what's an equiv chute? english is not my first language
[15:17] <eroomde> equivalent parachute to meterological sondes
[15:17] <eroomde> in other words, 'if the weather services can launch them, surely i can too?'
[15:17] <gonzo_> equiv = equivilant. ie. same size, descent speed etc
[15:18] <mactunes> well this specific authority (dusseldorf) don't know how to treat this "new" regulation yet. so right now they won't allow launches of any balloons as i understand
[15:18] <eroomde> that's tiresome
[15:18] <gonzo_> ask waht authority the met services have, and how it differs
[15:19] <gonzo_> at least it makes them ask the quiestion within their organisation
[15:19] <mactunes> the exact translated wording of the response was "... there is no alternative to reject the launch of the balloons"
[15:20] <gonzo_> then they should stop all launches, including govenrment organisations
[15:20] <mactunes> and that they are urgently waiting for something like a "Wetterballongenehmigungspraxis" which roughly translates to weatherballoon approval guide
[15:20] <mactunes> to be honest, I think they are
[15:20] <AndyEsser> german is a beautiful language :)
[15:20] <mactunes> hehe :D
[15:20] <toresbe> I don't get why people think otherwise. It truly is.
[15:21] <gonzo_> just tag as many words to gether as you like
[15:21] <AndyEsser> :)
[15:21] <AndyEsser> it's logical :)
[15:21] <mactunes> to be fair, he also wrote it in quotes
[15:21] <gonzo_> btw, what's the longest accepted german word?
[15:22] <gonzo_> (I could goopgle it, but that kills conversation)
[15:22] <mactunes> i had to google that myself: Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän
[15:22] <mactunes> i just did, but this might no longer be valid
[15:23] <adamgreig> pft, we have longer words in english :P
[15:23] <adamgreig> admittedly only when you follow the same "stick stuff together" rules
[15:23] <mactunes> :)
[15:26] <kokey> like in Welsh?
[15:26] <kokey> Afrikaans also does the same stick together stuff
[15:27] <kokey> my father worked for a city council, and the name of a committee they had to run a meeting for was Trichardsfonteindamonstspanningsoordbeheerskomiteevergardering
[15:28] <russss> I don't think it's easy to work out the longest possible word
[15:29] <russss> there was a law with a really long name
[15:30] <russss> Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz
[15:34] <AndyEsser> awww, couple of weeks for my scope to arrive :(
[15:36] <adamgreig> where'd you order from?
[15:36] <eroomde> you won't regret it
[15:36] <AndyEsser> Telonic
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[15:38] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-59 after 0310 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-59
[15:38] Nick change: M0JSN -> jonsowman
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[15:43] <BARC> The EU regulation sounds frustrating mactunes. Is that the first such EU problem someone has encountered?
[15:45] <mactunes> not sure, but there is also hope. i am talking to a different German state now and they might give me approval
[15:45] <AndyEsser> \o/
[15:45] <russss> hah
[15:46] <eroomde> just head west
[15:47] <mactunes> seems like different states interpret this regulation (which can be found here in German http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:281:0001:0066:DE:PDF and here in english http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:281:0001:0066:EN:PDF)
[15:47] <mactunes> ... in different ways
[15:48] <mactunes> search for "SERA.3140" to get started. it's only one sentence which points you to appendix 2 ;)
[15:51] <BARC> Is your next move to try a different state?
[15:52] <mactunes> yep, i talked to one and it sounded promising. will go for the approval next week. if it goes well i'll update here
[15:52] <BARC> Thanks. Very useful to know how it works out for you.
[15:55] <mactunes> that was the intention :) still quite disappointed though since we (a group of kids) got sponsored by a telecom company and were actually hoping to track the event on a projector in the local fire bregade. we wrote some software which takes the values from dl-fldigi and displays it nicely with the sponsors logo
[15:57] <mactunes> since we have to go into another state we have to cancel our "mission control" idea
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[15:59] <eroomde> so, adamgreig, it has come to this https://www.dropbox.com/s/8qmcyl50a5l30d8/Screenshot%202016-01-07%2015.58.46.png?dl=0
[16:01] <gonzo_> would it not be possible to tail the habhub raw telem file?
[16:05] <adamgreig> eroomde: wow that's a chunky download
[16:05] <adamgreig> what prompted you?
[16:05] <adamgreig> gonzo_: for what?
[16:06] <adamgreig> oh
[16:06] <eroomde> adamgreig: new year's resolution
[16:06] <adamgreig> nice
[16:06] <eroomde> i want to do some 4 layer stuff at home
[16:06] <eroomde> not sure i should use something registered to work
[16:06] <AndyEsser> recommend KiCad over Eagle?
[16:06] <adamgreig> i do, like a broken record
[16:07] <eroomde> i'll tell you in a month
[16:07] <gonzo_> adamgreig, for mactunes to get the same data that they were going to use for their mission ctrl, if they don't have a local fldigi feed
[16:07] <adamgreig> a lot of people in the hobbyist community use eagle
[16:07] <adamgreig> and i wish they didn't personally
[16:07] <AndyEsser> I downloaded both at home
[16:07] <AndyEsser> lost my temper with both
[16:07] <adamgreig> lol
[16:07] <adamgreig> CAD in a nutshell
[16:07] <AndyEsser> and now either Eagle has broken, or I've done something
[16:07] <AndyEsser> and I can't do any layouts now
[16:07] <AndyEsser> so might have to give KiCad another go
[16:08] <adamgreig> i really think it's both genuinely better than eagle technically and from a UI point of view, and also prefer it philosophically
[16:08] <eroomde> if starting from a position of zero, i'd go with kicad
[16:08] <adamgreig> i hate that people make open hardware in closed design software
[16:09] <eroomde> the debate for me has more been if it's worth relearn how to layout pcbs, a bit like relearning ho to walk, just for a small improvement in philophical niceness
[16:09] <eroomde> but push-n-shove is a big enough actual win for me to have a go
[16:09] <mactunes> gonzo_: this will work. my problem is more of a logistics thing. because now we have to drive >1 hour to our launch destination the kids would have to wait more than 2 hours in "mission control". some of them are 10 years old so they don't have patience for that :D
[16:09] <adamgreig> my view is the technical niceness makes it worthwhile regardless
[16:09] <adamgreig> especially now i'm doing things like writing scripts to automate package and symbol creation
[16:10] <adamgreig> anyway I'm excited you're trying it again eroomde :P
[16:10] <adamgreig> my offer of explaining weird things you find stands
[16:11] <eroomde> well i downloaded it about 1.5yrs ago to try but it had graphics bug with my ubuntu and after about 15 minutes i got fed up of them
[16:11] <eroomde> and then about 6 months ago the osx build script was broken
[16:11] <eroomde> and now they have official osx builds
[16:11] <eroomde> so here we are
[16:11] <adamgreig> this 4.0 is great
[16:13] <adamgreig> though i think i've found a bug where the router will sometimes allow you to cause drc violations while routing in walk-around mode
[16:13] <fsphil> ah I see fedora 23 has 4.0.1 packaged
[16:13] <adamgreig> i mean, running drc still catches them, so you're no worse off than eagle
[16:13] <adamgreig> but irritating when i'm used to just not being allowed to place any tracks that'd cause drc issues
[16:14] <adamgreig> still mostly doesn't, but there's some weirdness around putting corners in tracks near vias i think
[16:40] <eroomde> right, i shall begin in earnest
[16:40] <eroomde> but, later
[16:40] <eroomde> time to head back to oxford
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[17:29] <arjunnaha> How many people would buy Balloon Gas, if I setup an account with BOC, so wholesale prices at £80 for a 5.19^3 metres capacity
[17:29] <arjunnaha> Like a UKHAS BOC Store
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> What purity is that?
[17:32] <arjunnaha> One sec, let me check
[17:33] <adamgreig> how would you do delivery, canister hire, collection/returns, would you have insurance, etc?
[17:35] <arjunnaha> I think it is grade N2.0 at 99%
[17:36] <arjunnaha> adamgreig, BOC would handle that, I would just order at wholesale prices and x person would pick it up from a BOC outlet
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[17:39] <SpeedEvil> 99% would be just fine.
[17:39] <SpeedEvil> Are there any order volume/year requirements?
[17:40] <arjunnaha> Not that they made me aware of!
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[17:47] <Laurenceb_> I've always been confused by this
[17:47] <SpeedEvil> More and more people seem interested in picos.
[17:47] <Laurenceb_> people have claimed that balloon gas is very impure
[17:47] <SpeedEvil> which use ratehr a lot less gas
[17:48] <Laurenceb_> yet nobody has had issues with lift
[17:48] <Laurenceb_> leading me to suspect its >98% or so
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> 1% pure is not an issue
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> impurity
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> unless they put krypton in, which seems unlikely
[17:48] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> Also, natural gas is 50% the lift, but is 50p/m^3
[17:50] <Laurenceb_> yeah its a pity there are no wide balloon films
[17:50] <Laurenceb_> as then a high floating pico with methane would be possible
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> If you could get a mid-range mesh transmitter to a tenner, then fun indeed.
[17:52] <Laurenceb_> although it might be a bit unstable due to the ratio of specific heats being 1.32
[17:52] <Laurenceb_> hydrogen is maybe more sensible
[17:53] <Laurenceb_> lol its running naze
[17:54] <Laurenceb_> ignore me lol
[17:55] <SpeedEvil> True
[17:56] <SpeedEvil> the real saving grace of methane is that it comes out of a tap in the kitchen. (or can)
[17:57] <russss> methane in a can?
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[18:38] <SpeedEvil> natural gas
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[22:25] <Lunar_Lander> predictor can't access GMaps
[22:26] <Randomskk> hmm
[22:26] <Randomskk> working fine for me
[22:26] <Randomskk> can _you_ access google maps?
[22:27] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> now it does something
[22:29] <Vaizki> predictormjust references tiles via url
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> next days are crappy imo
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> very long range for 30000 m altitude
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> good we are not flying there
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[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> how do you deal with long range predictions?
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[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> TUUUUUUUUT :D
[23:26] <PsionicOz> Lunar_Lander: hiya
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> hi :)
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> we are a bit heavy this time with 900 g pyld and hwoyee 1000
[23:28] <PsionicOz> ah that will slow your accent unless you put in a bit more gas.
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[23:28] <PsionicOz> the next launch for us will be somehwere north of 1700g with a 1500g howyee
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> cool :)
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> first time was KCI-1500 with 450g payload
[23:29] <PsionicOz> yeah we're all pretty excited again to be launching balloons
[23:29] <PsionicOz> Hmmm... Horus-7 was my first balloon launch... way back when
[23:30] <PsionicOz> http://projecthorus.org/index.php/launch-history/horus-7/
[23:30] <PsionicOz> we watched that one land ~200kms from launch site
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> cool :)
[23:31] <PsionicOz> Eeek that was 5 years ago
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> my first Horus launch was one that was stuck in float
[23:31] <PsionicOz> ah... horus 16
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:31] <PsionicOz> we drove 700kms after that balloon before we turned back
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> just looking at the page
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> recalling that how it landed meters off the coast
[23:32] <PsionicOz> about 5000m :)
[23:33] <PsionicOz> that came down through the sydney airport approach...
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> ohhhhh
[23:33] <PsionicOz> some good memories in those pages
[23:33] <PsionicOz> I'm the one wearing the blue cap + beard in may of those photos
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[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> very nice :)
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> ballooning rocks
[23:41] <Lunar_Lander> PsionicOz, https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1lke6hPHKJDVWdXMGRaeFByUXM/view?pref=2&pli=1
[23:42] <PsionicOz> there's a few hackvana boards there
[23:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> idea is that you can stack them with "arduino type" headers into a compact stack
[23:43] <PsionicOz> k.. I've worked with darkside on his "Nut" series at times..
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[23:44] <PsionicOz> I've not worked on payloads for a long while
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> for me it is the most fun of it
[23:44] <Lunar_Lander> the experiments
[23:47] <Lunar_Lander> problem is that I read loads of papers and it's too much to make :D
[00:00] --- Fri Jan 8 2016