highaltitude.log.20151231

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[00:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03louise nicboll belfast _chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=louise%20nicboll%20belfast%20_chase
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[10:39] <cm13g09> Hi guys, I know that it's not exactly high altitude, but I know you guys are good with radio comms. I've already got craag on the case, but I'd like to hear other people's opinions as well. Need to engineer a point-to-multipoint serial link. The solution has to be relatively cheap, support 9600 8N1 on TTL232 as an input/output, and be capable of a round-trip time of 100ms or less.
[10:40] <cm13g09> The other requirement is: It needs to work in woodland/through walls/etc up to a distance of 50+m
[10:41] <cm13g09> I started playing with the HC-11 radio modules (CC1101 based), but they're just not quite up to the challenge.
[10:45] <eroomde> they won't do 50m?
[10:45] <cm13g09> eroomde: not reliably no
[10:45] <eroomde> that's surprising
[10:45] <cm13g09> I was a bit surprised as well
[10:46] <cm13g09> but I don't think it's the CC1101
[10:46] <cm13g09> I think it's the crappy firmware on the MCU on the front of them being
[10:46] <cm13g09> well... crap
[10:47] <cm13g09> the claim
[10:47] <cm13g09> "2: long distance, range 1 to 40m.(less than 1 m, module can't work normally)."
[10:48] <cm13g09> Unfortunately, the so-called FU4 mode doesn't work
[10:49] <eroomde> do you want guaranteed delivery etc or would something simple do?
[10:49] <eroomde> e.g. using the ntx2/nrx2 as they were intended
[10:49] <eroomde> fm serial links
[10:50] <russss> or the RFM69
[10:50] <eroomde> the wet woodland is probably your most constraining scenario, power-wise, unless the walls you mentioned are thick concrete with rebar
[10:51] <cm13g09> eroomde: the walls are not exactly thin.....
[10:51] <eroomde> as a rough but good approximation (i was surprised by this too), free space path loss grows with r^2, in woodland r^4, and in wet, folliated woodland r^6
[10:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HORUS - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HORUS
[10:51] <cm13g09> eroomde: I do need bi-directional
[10:51] <cm13g09> so the ntx2/nrx2 combo would be a bit awkward
[10:52] <cm13g09> it would also be nice to have it all on a single IC
[10:56] <cm13g09> eroomde: I like the form factor of the HC-11s
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[10:56] <cm13g09> I just wish they'd work properly :P
[10:56] <cm13g09> guaranteed delivery isn't essential
[10:57] <cm13g09> it's nice, but when this project uses ethernet it uses UDP multicast
[10:57] <cm13g09> which ain't guaranteed either
[10:57] <craag> without guaranteed delivery you can just broadcast a packet when you get it, and then optimise the rf side to maximise the reliability
[10:57] <craag> without worrying about any protocol over the top
[10:57] <cm13g09> mm
[10:58] <cm13g09> I was thinking that
[10:58] <cm13g09> as a *rough* idea, anything that's a broadcast message usually gets sent 10 times....
[10:58] <craag> lol
[10:58] <cm13g09> yes
[10:58] <cm13g09> there's not millisecond critical accuracy
[10:59] <cm13g09> because the whole thing can resync its clock anyway
[10:59] <cm13g09> (that is, the internal timers on the software)
[11:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PICOHORUSBINARY - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PICOHORUSBINARY
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[11:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALLOONOLO-7 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALLOONOLO-7
[11:58] <Sirius-BE> what about the HC-12? they claim 1000m...
[12:07] Nick change: gonzo__ -> gonzo_
[12:08] <cm13g09> Sirius-BE: let me have a look
[12:09] <cm13g09> hmm
[12:09] <cm13g09> yeah
[12:10] <cm13g09> seems to be discontinued
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[12:10] <cm13g09> they're also quite expensive....
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[13:30] <cm13g09> well.... bollocks.... turns out some of the 0805 resistors I thought I ordered... are actually 0402s....
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[13:49] <SpeedEvil> cm13g09: Put two in series/parallel
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> ^four
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[15:29] <Laurenceb_> https://www.iter.org/album/construction
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[15:29] <Laurenceb_> that looks very very very expensive
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> Almost as if someone wanted to ensure that the design would never work
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> Of course, if you have a couple of dozen of one thing to make for it, the cheapest way must be to give the work to 12 companies in 12 countries to make it.
[15:33] <SpeedEvil> i am interested also in the gyrotron research being done for it, and the potential for use in electric beamed propulsion
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> https://www.iter.org/img/crop-2000-90/all/content/com/gallery/construction/cryostatworkshop/cryostat_segments_unwrapping_2_small.jpg - I love the juxtaposition
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> Joinery and ultra-high-tech
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[17:16] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1NM6rlSwqA - cutdown alternatives.
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> '11kV lightning arrestor and exploding disconnecter.
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[17:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-57 after 0310 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-57
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[18:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[00:00] --- Fri Jan 1 2016