highaltitude.log.20151229

[00:08] Action: Laurenceb_ was looking at silly rocker ideas
[00:09] <Laurenceb_> as Falcon 9 is now using subcooling, jet pumps are possible
[00:09] <Laurenceb_> falcon 9 second stage with jet pumps to run two ablative fixed boost engines
[00:09] <Laurenceb_> *rocket
[00:11] <Laurenceb_> then it can do ground takeoff and SSTO ....
[00:19] <adamgreig> maybe you should tweet your idea at elon musk
[00:20] Lemml (~andreas@p5080F1CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[00:24] Crashjuh_ (~Crashjuh@217.23.14.205) joined #highaltitude.
[00:26] Crashjuh (~Crashjuh@217.23.14.205) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[00:26] Nick change: Crashjuh_ -> Crashjuh
[00:33] mikestir (~quassel@cpc76842-brmb9-2-0-cust742.1-3.cable.virginm.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[00:33] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[00:38] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage) joined #highaltitude.
[00:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5QI_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5QI_chase
[00:48] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p54888A7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[00:49] RocketBoy (steverand@0546a52a.skybroadband.com) left #highaltitude.
[00:50] Nick change: michal_f -> michalf_home
[01:33] JerJer (~Adium@asterisk/original-h323-guy/JerJer) joined #highaltitude.
[01:36] DL7AD (~sven@p4FD42E53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[01:37] DL7AD1 (~sven@p4FD42CCD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[01:45] Crashbone (~Crashbone@pb1unx.xs4all.nl) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[01:46] Crashbone|Away (~Crashbone@pb1unx.xs4all.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[01:46] Nick change: Crashbone|Away -> Crashbone
[02:07] pschulz01 (~paul@ubuntu/member/pschulz01) left irc: Quit: Ex-Chat
[02:34] <Laurenceb_> https://medium.com/looking-up/q-a-dr-john-hunter-b3b2af5bbf71#.v73jn25sb
[02:40] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-179-250-250.range86-179.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[03:39] Ian_ (4d66af83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.102.175.131) left #highaltitude.
[03:39] Ian_ (4d66af83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.102.175.131) joined #highaltitude.
[04:06] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[04:08] Flutterb1t (~flutterba@unaffiliated/day) joined #highaltitude.
[04:11] Flutterbat (~flutterba@unaffiliated/day) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
[04:11] Nick change: Flutterb1t -> Flutterbat
[04:58] JerJer (~Adium@asterisk/original-h323-guy/JerJer) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[05:56] stheory (~nic@122.178.198.239) joined #highaltitude.
[06:01] Lemml (andreas@p5080FBE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[06:25] stheory (~nic@122.178.198.239) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[06:48] YO9GJX (~YO9GJX@109.102.153.76) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[07:17] fl_0 (foo@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[07:23] fl_0 (foo@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) joined #highaltitude.
[07:45] es5nhc (~tarmo@108-40-71-217.sta.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[07:58] Flutterb1t (~flutterba@unaffiliated/day) joined #highaltitude.
[08:02] Flutterbat (~flutterba@unaffiliated/day) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[08:02] Nick change: Flutterb1t -> Flutterbat
[08:20] Strykar_ (~wakkawakk@182.70.53.79) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[08:46] fl_0 (foo@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[08:50] michalf_home (~michal_f@91.146.241.130) left irc: Quit: Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-
[08:52] fl_0 (foo@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) joined #highaltitude.
[08:53] <Maxell> Are there pre-build binaries for dl-fldigi - debian?
[08:53] <Maxell> Still having libjpeg62-dev issues.
[08:54] <Maxell> Or should the makefile be pointed towards a new libjpeg version?
[09:01] fl_0 (foo@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[09:09] RocketBoy (~steverand@0546a52a.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:19] fl_0 (foo@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) joined #highaltitude.
[09:23] fl_0 (foo@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[09:40] <Vaizki> Laurenceb, thanks for the link.. good read
[09:46] RocketBoy (~steverand@0546a52a.skybroadband.com) left irc: Quit: RocketBoy
[09:50] RocketBoy (~steverand@0546a52a.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude.
[09:51] RocketBoy (~steverand@0546a52a.skybroadband.com) left irc: Client Quit
[09:54] RocketBoy (~steverand@0546a52a.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:03] <eroomde> Laurenceb: interesting, though he does have a slight air of crank
[10:09] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) joined #highaltitude.
[10:18] darkstar-2001 (~matt@dsl-217-155-229-6.zen.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[10:18] darkstar-20011 (~matt@dsl-217-155-229-6.zen.co.uk) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[10:31] hemkel (59d9fa9c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.217.250.156) joined #highaltitude.
[10:37] DL7AD (~sven@p4FD42E53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Quit: Leaving.
[10:39] DL7AD (~sven@p4FD42E53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[10:45] <hemkel> dear habitat team. we plan to start a small solar balloon tomorrow 10:30 in zurich. this is a test of a lightweight lora tracker (many thanks to dave akerman). the ballon is an all black sphere with 184 cm diameter.
[10:47] <hemkel> we would like to ask for flight permission for hkSol1...
[10:48] <eroomde> hemkel: the best place to ask is on #habhub - that is where all the administrators live and where they can approve documents
[10:49] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[10:49] <hemkel> thank you eroomde. we'll switch to habhub
[10:56] sumie-dh (sumie-dh@nat.brmlab.cz) joined #highaltitude.
[11:29] ipdove (~ipdove@interclub.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[11:32] ipdove (~ipdove@interclub.plus.com) left irc: Client Quit
[11:56] RocketBoy (steverand@0546a52a.skybroadband.com) left #highaltitude.
[12:05] qyx (~qyx@krtkoorg.ynet.sk) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
[12:06] Lemml (andreas@p5080FBE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[12:07] sumie-dh (sumie-dh@nat.brmlab.cz) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[12:07] sumie-dh (sumie-dh@nat.brmlab.cz) joined #highaltitude.
[12:10] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[12:10] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[12:13] qyx (~qyx@krtkoorg.ynet.sk) joined #highaltitude.
[12:15] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[12:17] <bertrik> I've been doing some measurements of the lora spectrum yesterday, my results are very similar to the image posted from leo bodnar's site posted yesterday. Very slowly it's starting to make sense.
[12:39] Lemml (andreas@p5080FBE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[12:46] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[12:48] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[13:03] Strykar (~wakkawakk@182.70.53.79) joined #highaltitude.
[13:08] _crow (5b7db6a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.125.182.168) joined #highaltitude.
[13:11] leszekka (5559b2a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.89.178.168) joined #highaltitude.
[13:11] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[13:17] fl_0 (unknown@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) joined #highaltitude.
[13:20] UpuWork (~UpuWork@smtp.nevis.co.uk) left irc:
[13:37] stilldavid (~stilldavi@stilldavid.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[13:38] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[13:45] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds
[13:54] <_crow> Hello all. Over the past few weeks I've been [slowly] getting to grips with the PITS board, sdr sharp, fldigi. Theres a long way to go before I'd consider a launch of my own, is there a way for be to get involved with other peoples launches? [I live in Oxfordshire]
[13:56] <eroomde> where in oxfordshire?
[13:56] <_crow> Wallingford
[13:57] <eroomde> smart :)
[13:57] <eroomde> osney island here
[13:58] stilldavid (~stilldavi@stilldavid.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:58] <_crow> ah, not too far away ;)
[13:59] <eroomde> no indeed
[13:59] <eroomde> i lived in brightwell salome for a bit so know wallingford reasonably well
[13:59] <_crow> my much frequented branch of maplins is only up the road from you
[14:00] <_crow> I only moved here two years ago.... originally from Northern Ireland
[14:01] <eroomde> that maplins annoys me
[14:01] <eroomde> well, maplins in general
[14:01] <eroomde> they never have anything in stock
[14:02] <_crow> I tend to go in there for a browse if the wife has dragged me out shopping
[14:03] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-179-250-250.range86-179.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:04] <eroomde> the wine shop is the best bit of that retail park, for me
[14:04] <fsphil> _crow: smart move :)
[14:05] UpuWork (~UpuWork@smtp.nevis.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[14:06] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:06] stilldavid (~stilldavi@stilldavid.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[14:07] <eroomde> can anyone recommend a decent vacuum sucking pen? for lifting components
[14:08] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) left irc: Excess Flood
[14:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03sp9uob - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=sp9uob
[14:09] leszekka (5559b2a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.89.178.168) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: you're stuck on a pen, not something with an external pump?
[14:10] <eroomde> for home use a manual pen will be alright
[14:10] <eroomde> i have a footpedal thing at work but it's more than a need (especially for the sapce) at home
[14:10] <SpeedEvil> ah.
[14:11] stilldavid (~stilldavi@stilldavid.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:11] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:11] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) left irc: Excess Flood
[14:12] <SpeedEvil> http://www.jodcast.net/ - neat - I hadn't realised the microwave oven emissions picked up by radio telescopes were not on 2.45GHz.
[14:13] darkstar-2001 (~matt@dsl-217-155-229-6.zen.co.uk) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds
[14:13] darkstar-2001 (~matt@dsl-217-155-229-6.zen.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> They sweep down in frequency after the oven is opened when the voltage on the cap decays
[14:13] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:13] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) left irc: Excess Flood
[14:15] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:15] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) left irc: Excess Flood
[14:16] Amadiro (jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no) left irc: Excess Flood
[14:17] _crow_ (5b7db6a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.125.182.168) joined #highaltitude.
[14:18] <_crow_> So what is the best way to gain practical experience in launching, tracking, chasing etc? Do I just keep an eye on upcoming launches and then offer my inept services?
[14:19] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:19] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) left irc: Excess Flood
[14:20] <craag> Helping out by tracking other people's flights is very useful
[14:20] _crow (5b7db6a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.125.182.168) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[14:20] <SpeedEvil> _crow_: Even just following on IRC can give useful info
[14:21] <SpeedEvil> oh
[14:21] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:21] <craag> If any are coming up you could also ask nicely to go and watch the launch, although you might be dragged into helping out too!
[14:21] <daveake> watching/helping at a launch will help answer many of the qurstions you'd have before your own launch
[14:21] <craag> Unfortunately not many launches this time of year
[14:21] <daveake> fewer chases
[14:22] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) left irc: Excess Flood
[14:23] Amadiro (jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no) joined #highaltitude.
[14:24] <_crow_> I guess I'll keep my eyes peeled for upcoming launches... season permitting. As for tracking: I'm assuming I need something more than a dongle with a tiny aeriel?
[14:24] Amadiro (jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no) left irc: Excess Flood
[14:26] <fsphil> you have one of the little rtlsdr/dvb-t dongles?
[14:28] <_crow_> Yeah
[14:29] <fsphil> those can be used to track flights, though the antenna that comes with them is a bit pants. good for short range testing, but you'll need something better for tracking something in flight
[14:30] <_crow_> Any good resources for understanding the type of antenna I'd need [how to build/where to buy]?
[14:30] <fsphil> there's a few pointers on https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[14:31] <fsphil> ideally a yagi, but those are large and need to be aimed
[14:32] <fsphil> for chasing a magnetically mounted whip for the car is good. they're quite cheap too so useful for starting with
[14:32] <AndyEsser> I'm hoping to head along to a launch in the next few months before I do my first launch in ~June
[14:33] <fsphil> I'm quite fond of these: http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/21033-watson-wsm-270-mini-mag-antenna.html
[14:33] <fsphil> very good magnet
[14:33] <fsphil> you'll probably need an adaptor for plugging it into your sdr
[14:34] UpuWork (~UpuWork@smtp.nevis.co.uk) left irc:
[14:35] Amadiro (jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no) joined #highaltitude.
[14:36] <_crow_> Ah... thanks for the pointer :)
[14:37] <Ian_> SpeedEvil, the people at Park telescope in Australia thought that they had something strange a couple of years ago. \
[14:37] UpuWork (~UpuWork@smtp.nevis.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[14:39] <Ian_> Then after lots of head scratching they realised that the strange signal only appeared when they were very busy and there were a lot of people at the site and some used a microwave to heat up snacks . . . signal decay from the microwave when the door was opened!
[14:39] <Ian_> I hadn't realised until that story broke.
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> yes, - that was what I was referring to :)
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> I hadn't realised it was swept down to 1G
[14:41] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:45] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> _crow_: you can track wx sondes, thats a fun hobby in this time of year when theres not that many hab launches, it gives you an idea of what type of gear you need
[14:46] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> if tracking from home: yagi and rotator, rtl stick is fine
[14:46] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> maby a lna if you got a long coax run
[14:47] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[14:47] <michalfAFK> speaking of rotators, is there anything reasonable to buy?
[14:48] <michalfAFK> or home buillds mostly
[14:48] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> I?m using a small one fron conrads , dont know if it avalible anymore
[14:48] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> lots out on ebay
[14:58] <Ian_> I didn't realise how far down the frequency went, until you just mentioned it. Discussion is good! :)
[14:59] <Ian_> Windscreen wiper motors for rotators with a bit of extra gearing - it might rotate your house . . .
[14:59] <michalfAFK> :)
[15:00] <michalfAFK> SA6BSS-Mike|2: your rotator is 2 axis ?
[15:06] LazyL_M0LEP (~irc-clien@41.215.89.157) joined #highaltitude.
[15:11] lz1dev (~rgp@unaffiliated/lz1dev) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[15:28] ipdove (~ipdove@interclub.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:30] _crow_ (5b7db6a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.125.182.168) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[15:33] <Ian_> See VK5ZAI's monster which was pre Arduino etc. http://www.electric-web.org/tracking_antenna.htm
[15:34] lz1dev (~rgp@unaffiliated/lz1dev) joined #highaltitude.
[15:43] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[15:45] <eroomde> pre arduino
[15:45] <eroomde> oh what an age
[15:46] <Ian_> Your shorts would have been shorter and your kneed nobblier ten years ago!
[15:46] <eroomde> a bit large for my small house in the centre of oxford
[15:46] <eroomde> heh he says it's been operation since 1993
[15:46] <eroomde> i was 10
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> 'wait - you mean in the past, microcontrollers diddn't run windows 14'
[15:46] <eroomde> sorry 5!
[15:48] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[15:48] ipdove (~ipdove@interclub.plus.com) left irc: Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de
[15:50] <michalfAFK> that's huge
[15:52] <Ian_> I have been thinking of a smaller one for some time. I have two winscreen wiper motors and an 80:1 cement mixer gearbox, which should do the trick.
[15:53] <eroomde> that'd be fun
[15:53] <Ian_> Alas, not a welder. but with limit of 5 elements and a 5m turning circle it has scope . . .
[16:00] <fsphil> I'm not great at building things. my limit at the moment is lego
[16:02] <Ian_> Scare the living Schwepes out of the neighbours . . . :)
[16:07] <fsphil> needs a few of those spinning emergency lights too, for added effect
[16:08] <Ian_> Nah, 12' and mysteriously grows 9" a year for three years . . .
[16:34] <mattbrejza> might be useful for some people here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351588937562
[16:34] <mattbrejza> review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO712DvGAKA
[16:39] GargantuaSauce (~sauce@blk-224-177-97.eastlink.ca) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[16:42] <daveake> "...accommodates users with 100MHz bandwidth"
[16:42] GargantuaSauce (~sauce@blk-224-177-97.eastlink.ca) joined #highaltitude.
[16:42] <daveake> That's way more than my b/w
[16:45] <eroomde> note that's a review of the high end on
[16:45] <eroomde> >> £50
[16:46] <mattbrejza> yea probably should have said that
[16:49] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[16:54] <eroomde> the one he's reviewing is 1054 price
[16:55] <eroomde> so unless you really hate standalone boxes with buttons and dials and useful ui features...
[16:57] <mattbrejza> i think the low end one is probably useful for people who may occasionally want a scope but dont have a lot of money spare
[16:59] <eroomde> yeah
[16:59] <eroomde> though i'd just get an old school hameg for that money
[17:07] hemkel (59d9fa9c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.217.250.156) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[17:09] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: I've been getting confused by the Reaction Engines SABRE engine
[17:09] <Laurenceb_> how is it better than a simple ramjet?
[17:11] <kc2pit> Try jamming a rocket engine injector head into the front of a ramjet mid-flight so you can use it outside the atmosphere.
[17:11] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:11] <kc2pit> Discover that that's impossible.
[17:12] <Laurenceb_> SABRE already includes a ramjet element
[17:13] <kc2pit> Flip the idea around, and make a rocket-engine-style combustion system eat atmosphere for the low altitude part, then switch to feeding liquid oxygen from a tank once there's not enough atmosphere.
[17:13] <Laurenceb_> anyway, I was talking from a thermodynamics POV
[17:14] <kc2pit> Oh. When there's ambient oxygen to burn, it's not.
[17:18] Jartza (jartza@heinola.org) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[17:22] <eroomde> i'm glad there's someone here to explain the sabre engine
[17:22] Jartza (jartza@heinola.org) joined #highaltitude.
[17:24] <kc2pit> Heh.
[17:24] <kc2pit> Hope I at least got the idea right.
[17:25] <eroomde> yes! that wasn't sarcasm
[17:25] <AndyEsser> it's difficult to tell sometimes eroomde
[17:25] <AndyEsser> :P
[17:26] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: can you go from standstill to mach6 with a ramjet?
[17:29] <Laurenceb_> so the advantages are practical rather than thermodynamic?
[17:30] kim27 (~kim27@unaffiliated/kim27) left irc: Quit: Coyote finally caught me
[17:30] <eroomde> mmm
[17:30] <eroomde> this is an engineering project Laurenceb_, rather than an irc thought experiment
[17:31] <Laurenceb_> heh
[17:31] <Laurenceb_> I only do thought irc thought experiments
[17:31] <eroomde> i know!
[17:31] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:31] <eroomde> though the rockoon will give you free pass to thought experiment for the rest of your life
[17:35] <Laurenceb_> heh
[17:35] <Laurenceb_> I should get back to working on that
[17:35] <kc2pit> If thermodynamics alone got things into orbit, rockets would run on lithium hydride and chlorine pentafluoride or some damn thing. Practicalities have kept Soyuz flying since the 60s.
[17:35] <Laurenceb_> got involved in writing proper aerodynamic heating sim
[17:35] <Laurenceb_> then tried running it on reentry optimisation
[17:36] <Laurenceb_> and ended up with hot air ballute recovery
[17:36] <eroomde> kc2pit: nicely put
[17:36] <Laurenceb_> then discovered it was all done back in the 60s :P
[17:36] <Laurenceb_> and is heavily patented
[17:36] <Laurenceb_> tho they have mostly expired
[17:36] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[17:37] <Laurenceb_> eroomde you might like this http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a454615.pdf
[17:37] <Laurenceb_> but something about it just doesn't make sense to me
[17:38] <Laurenceb_> theres surely some magic sauce missing
[17:38] <eroomde> heh
[17:38] <eroomde> look this is now getting all a bit close to my actual day job
[17:38] <eroomde> so i'm going to have to pass, if you don't mind
[17:39] <Laurenceb_> :D
[17:42] <AndyEsser> cop out
[17:42] <SpeedEvil> I have wondered multiple times why nobodies tried conventional jet engines for rocket 0th stages.
[17:42] <Laurenceb_> AndyEsser: if it is as simple as "the thrust chamber is the boundary layer"
[17:43] <Laurenceb_> then you could never achieve the mass flow rates they do
[17:43] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: horrible thrust to weight
[17:43] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: yes. You would be insane to take them along with you
[17:44] <SpeedEvil> i suppose it's just - as with launching on the top of a kenyan mountain - operational complexity
[17:46] <eroomde> i think the people who propose seaparate jet and rocket engines have not adequately simulated the performance of their airframe, aerodynamically
[17:46] <Laurenceb_> jet engines dont go very fast
[17:46] <eroomde> because the base drag of engines not being used is silly
[17:46] <Laurenceb_> it altogther seems very silly
[17:47] <SpeedEvil> I am assuming the engines are hideously inefficient, and only work up to ~5km before popping off. Even 5km may be too much
[17:47] <Laurenceb_> with Merlin 1D having crazy thrust to mass and highish ISP you could replicate original ATLAS and do SSTO without dropping
[17:47] <SpeedEvil> Probably 200m/s or so and 4km is mostly worthless
[17:47] <Laurenceb_> yup
[17:49] <Laurenceb_> in fact a Falcon 9 stage 2 with two extra Merlin 1D engines on the bottom would be a good SSTO
[17:51] <eroomde> good = lots of payload?
[17:54] <Laurenceb_> well 30% payload
[17:54] <Laurenceb_> 30% of dry mass
[17:55] <Laurenceb_> but with reusable stage 1 itd be stupidly expensive unless it could be reused itself
[17:56] <Laurenceb_> interesting - http://hackaday.com/2015/12/29/flying-planes-with-squirrel-cages
[17:57] <SpeedEvil> There is a 'fan in wing' one too
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FanWing
[17:58] <SpeedEvil> unrelated though
[18:01] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:05] jcoxon (~jcoxon@247.141.112.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:13] ljenkins| (~ljenkins@137.190.80.249) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[18:14] ljenkins| (~ljenkins@2001:1948:212:1030:dc83:5e9b:c036:57d0) joined #highaltitude.
[18:16] JerJer (~Adium@asterisk/original-h323-guy/JerJer) joined #highaltitude.
[18:17] es5nhc (~tarmo@108-40-71-217.sta.estpak.ee) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[18:23] <Laurenceb_> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/xindex.php,qaction=dlattach,3Btopic=39138.0,3Battach=1090138,3Bimage.pagespeed.ic.D6bb_SEDyt.jpg
[18:23] <Laurenceb_> someones christmas present
[18:24] <russss> shrinkwrapped
[18:26] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> michalfAFK: one axis
[18:26] <SpeedEvil> I assume that's Jason?
[18:30] <eroomde> now comes with a returns policy
[18:31] fl_0 (unknown@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[18:32] fl__0 (unknown@unaffiliated/fl-0/x-7355575) joined #highaltitude.
[18:33] gonzo_p (~gonzo_p@host86-181-107-102.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[18:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-57 after 0311 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-57
[18:34] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> nice :)
[18:35] <AndyEsser> eroomde: :)
[18:36] <Laurenceb_> I'm confused by PS-57
[18:36] <Laurenceb_> surely it can't be a party balloon
[18:37] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> first time it called in on tj9 firs and not wspr
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> annoying that HF only works well at night
[18:39] <Laurenceb_> maybe a slight frequency increase to 20 or 10m might help
[18:39] <Laurenceb_> as a pure solar pico using HF is likely to be a non starter
[18:40] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> on the south hemisphere anyway, its another thing on the north side, just bad range ower water
[18:40] <Laurenceb_> you think?
[18:41] <Laurenceb_> PS-x balloons seem to be getting the best propogation over water
[18:41] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> mutch more trackers/land on north side
[18:41] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> dont think the water making any difference
[18:42] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> on 30m the datime skip is about 100-150km
[18:42] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> sorry 1000-1500km
[18:43] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> on picospace it clearly says it a party balloon
[18:44] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> looking at todays skip on wspr I get most hits in range 700-2000km
[18:56] comzeradd (~sid286@2620:101:8016:74::4:11e) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[18:57] LazyL_M0LEP (~irc-clien@41.215.89.157) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[18:58] comzeradd (~sid286@2620:101:8016:74::4:11e) joined #highaltitude.
[19:01] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) left irc: Quit: quit
[19:11] habby_ (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:12] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[19:20] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p54888635.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[19:29] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[19:29] guido_ (~guido@s5596f950.adsl.online.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[19:36] mclane_ (~quassel@p5498CC1D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[19:37] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.
[19:37] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[19:41] trn (jhj@trnsz.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:01] michal_f (~michal_f@91.146.241.130) joined #highaltitude.
[20:15] habby_ (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds
[20:15] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:18] ljenkins| (~ljenkins@2001:1948:212:1030:dc83:5e9b:c036:57d0) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[20:22] ljenkins (~ljenkins@137.190.80.249) joined #highaltitude.
[20:34] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[20:34] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[20:47] jcoxon (~jcoxon@247.141.112.87.dyn.plus.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[20:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03On3pcb_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=On3pcb_chase
[21:01] pc1pcl (~luteijn@5ED1420C.cm-7-2b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[21:02] Nick change: pc1pcl -> luteijn
[21:10] Nick change: fl__0 -> fl_0
[21:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PS-58 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-58
[21:16] habby_ (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) joined #highaltitude.
[21:17] habby (~habby@host-2-101-92-206.as13285.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[21:18] <fsphil> OT, kinda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Longshot
[21:18] <fsphil> I'd not heard of this one
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> interesting
[21:21] <chris_99> have you seen Project Orion too
[21:24] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[21:43] guido_ (~guido@s5596f950.adsl.online.nl) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[21:57] mclane_ (~quassel@p5498CC1D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[22:13] <jarod> Anyone got a site with the latest BaseStation.sqb ? New virtual radar server 2.3 out... but now new db :/
[22:14] Rob_vk1kw (7cabc73d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.171.199.61) joined #highaltitude.
[22:14] <Rob_vk1kw> balloon PS-58 in the air - any info please?
[22:16] <Rob_vk1kw> saw PS-58 cw yesterday approx 8minutes apart but not today so far
[22:16] <Rob_vk1kw> sry PS-56
[22:21] kism3t (~quassel@52.14.75.194.dyn.plus.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:28] <AndyEsser> Upu / UpuWork - You around still?
[22:28] <Upu> aye
[22:28] <AndyEsser> \o/
[22:29] <AndyEsser> Mind if I bug you with a couple questions?
[22:29] <fsphil> He has always been here </kosh>
[22:30] <eroomde> a couple *of* questions
[22:30] <eroomde> you're not american
[22:30] <AndyEsser> fsphil: I imagine a burst of smoke and waving hands when you said that
[22:30] <eroomde> unless you want relationship advice
[22:30] <AndyEsser> eroomde: and sentences start with capitals, and end in punctuation marks - yet in IRC, grammar and syntax rules are loosened
[22:31] <AndyEsser> :)
[22:31] <eroomde> you don't get to generalise about irc
[22:31] <eroomde> and you certainly don't in this channel
[22:31] <AndyEsser> sorry :(
[22:33] <Ian_> Relationship advice: don't do it, you will hate yourself in the morning.
[22:38] <AndyEsser> woo! GPS and RF modules ordered :)
[22:40] <chris_99> i just found out about https://ukhas.net/ from HaD, seems really cool :)
[22:40] <Ian_> Exciting New Year ahead, no need for relationship advice with that to keep you busy :)
[22:45] <eroomde> chris_99: recent article?
[22:45] <chris_99> in the comments from http://hackaday.com/2015/12/28/weightless-iot-hardware-virtually-unavailable/
[22:46] <mfa298> chris_99: you can find the ukhas.net lot hanging out in #ukhasnet although its pretty much a subset of here
[22:47] <eroomde> o
[22:48] <chris_99> cool, mfa298 :)
[22:50] <adamgreig> mfa298: we chat about different things though ;)
[22:51] <adamgreig> like how cold my house is.. seems to have reached 11C now and holding
[22:51] <adamgreig> could work out the thermal coefficient of my house from this data
[22:51] <fsphil> hah
[22:52] <fsphil> could try one in each room, might be able to tell where you're loosing most of the heat
[22:54] gonzo__ (~gonzo_@host-92-6-244-28.as43234.net) joined #highaltitude.
[22:55] <mfa298> track where heat is being generated in the house (where people / annimals / laptops etc are)
[22:55] <mfa298> although I suspect most sensors are't accurate enough for that unless people turn fan heaters on/off as they enter/leave a room
[22:58] <fsphil> yeah possibly
[22:59] <adamgreig> good excuse to put lots of nodes in the house
[22:59] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: was at a talk about IoT the other month - one of the points they hammered home lots was that the data itself is meaningless without context (which seems obvious from first glance)
[23:00] <AndyEsser> but for example, just putting a temp. sensor in each room doesn't give you the greatest insight - ideally you would measure the volume of each room as well, have multiple sensors (high and low level) and take all this into account etc
[23:00] <eroomde> i think adam probably knows this
[23:01] <AndyEsser> k
[23:01] <adamgreig> temp sensor in each room does tell you quite a lot though i think
[23:01] <adamgreig> i reckon you could estimate the room volume from that alone, by looking at how quickly it changes compared to other rooms
[23:01] <adamgreig> but yea obviously multiple sensors, knowledge of windows and volume and exterior wall area and bla bla
[23:02] <adamgreig> but you don't know those numbers and you don't wna find out
[23:02] <adamgreig> sounds like someone was trying to make excuses for their bad model
[23:02] <AndyEsser> heh - he was a Microsoft Azure/Windows guy :P
[23:02] <adamgreig> bet you could throw a general linear model at it and infer everything you wanted to know from the sensor readings alone
[23:03] <adamgreig> big talk of course
[23:03] <adamgreig> i'm happy to just see when my central heating turns on
[23:03] <adamgreig> and how slowly my house cools down when it doesn't
[23:04] <adamgreig> eroomde: i'm just back from shopping for india trip
[23:04] <adamgreig> winter trekking is a bit more expensive than summer trekking, gods
[23:04] <eroomde> lol
[23:04] <adamgreig> i'm going to be a warm bundle of joy in the ice though
[23:04] <eroomde> yes
[23:04] <eroomde> summer is quite easy isn't it. so long as you don't chafe, you're good
[23:04] <adamgreig> was sorely tempted by an arc'teryx fleece. and waterproof. and etc
[23:05] <eroomde> i'm going to get my arcteryx outer shell next month
[23:05] <eroomde> whilst there are sales
[23:05] <adamgreig> nice
[23:05] <adamgreig> there are sales rn
[23:05] <adamgreig> a really really nice arcteryx outer shell in cotswolds
[23:06] <adamgreig> loads of nice soft shells too
[23:06] <eroomde> i have their hoodie, it's amazing
[23:06] <eroomde> the jacket i wanted isn't on sale at cotswold
[23:07] <eroomde> damn and poo
[23:07] <adamgreig> my main trekking backpack is from them like 8 years ago and it's joyous. but £170 for a fleece and £300 for a waterproof jacket was a bit painful
[23:07] Strykar (~wakkawakk@182.70.53.79) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[23:08] <adamgreig> very fashionable too though. gotta look sharp for the leopards
[23:08] <eroomde> hence sales!
[23:08] <adamgreig> ended up with some essentially identical weight/fabric/warmth montane and mountain equipment and mammut stuff
[23:08] <adamgreig> the fleece wasn't discounted ;(
[23:09] <adamgreig> everything else i got was pretty steeply down though
[23:12] <adamgreig> eroomde: have you been to an ellis brigham before?
[23:12] <eroomde> nope
[23:13] <adamgreig> i saw one today in covent garden and it looked like a discount/cheap outdoorsy place, going on the window and logo
[23:13] <adamgreig> then i went inside and christ
[23:13] <adamgreig> biggest selection of arcteryx stuff i've seen in one place including their own shop
[23:13] <adamgreig> but that wasn't even the most expensive or fancy stuff they had ?_?
[23:13] <eroomde> where is it?
[23:14] <eroomde> oh you said
[23:14] <eroomde> there is a whole arcteryx shop in picadilly
[23:14] <adamgreig> they have 34 around the uk apparently
[23:14] <eroomde> that is an expensive and dangerous place
[23:14] <adamgreig> yea it really is. i've been there before but decided probably shouldn't go today
[23:15] <eroomde> good for trying on sizes tho
[23:15] <eroomde> i asked if they did jan sales. they don't.
[23:15] <Vaizki> arcteryx is real good yes but the high end is eye watering indeed
[23:16] <adamgreig> anyway yea if you happen across an ellis brigham shop i recommend going in
[23:16] <eroomde> cool
[23:16] <eroomde> willdo
[23:17] <adamgreig> then go to the cotswolds next door to actually buy anything in the sale, lol
[23:17] <eroomde> there's a nice big cotswolds opposite bicester village
[23:17] <eroomde> i dive past it every day on the way t work
[23:17] <eroomde> helpful
[23:17] <adamgreig> was in harrods after, looking at binoculars for trip
[23:17] <eroomde> ha
[23:17] <adamgreig> you can really spend a lot on binoculars
[23:17] <adamgreig> it turns out
[23:17] <eroomde> picking your shops well
[23:18] <adamgreig> harrods actually has a tiny snow and rock
[23:18] <adamgreig> they have a £2600 warm jacket
[23:18] <eroomde> wat
[23:18] <eroomde> link?
[23:18] <adamgreig> i doubt it's online
[23:18] <Vaizki> hmm maybe my Lemmy tribute is in the bag and I should stop with the Jack D and Killed by Death marathon
[23:18] <adamgreig> let's see
[23:18] <eroomde> made of aerogel and golden fleece
[23:19] <adamgreig> hmmm i found htis one on the snow and rock site
[23:19] <adamgreig> http://www.snowandrock.com/kjus-mens-cuche-special-edition-jacket//ski-snowboard-outdoor-sports/fcp-product/69194?listing=true
[23:19] <adamgreig> this was a bit fancier sitll i guess http://www.snowandrock.com/store-harrods/content/fcp-content
[23:19] <eroomde> christ alive
[23:19] <adamgreig> yea
[23:19] <adamgreig> harrods huh
[23:20] <eroomde> so i noticed this on reddit
[23:20] <adamgreig> good sushi downstairs tho
[23:20] <Vaizki> ok that's a bit steep :)
[23:20] <adamgreig> and £3000 swarovski binocs
[23:20] <eroomde> 'ian_murdock_debian_founder_is_threatening_suicide' is the thread title
[23:20] <adamgreig> leica stand was also sorely tempting
[23:20] <eroomde> looks all very weird
[23:20] <Vaizki> well optics at thousands of pounds I can still relate to
[23:21] <michal_f> are there any free alternatives to COAA sonde monitor ?
[23:21] <adamgreig> guess it's a fashion thing Vaizki. that jacket's probably cheap compared to the womenswear section downstairs
[23:21] <adamgreig> and a lot warmer!
[23:21] <Vaizki> http://www.backcountry.com/mountain-hardwear-absolute-zero-down-parka-mens
[23:21] <Vaizki> this is my most expensive jacket and I got it 70% off at a US outlet north of Seattle :O
[23:21] <adamgreig> i don't think absolute zero means what they think it means
[23:21] <Vaizki> no it doesn't :)
[23:21] <adamgreig> nice :P
[23:22] <Vaizki> it is REALLY warm
[23:22] <Vaizki> good for stargazing in February, doing anything active in it will have me soaked wet with sweat pretty quickly
[23:22] <adamgreig> apparently this is the hottest thing in warm jackets, http://arcteryx.com/product.aspx?language=EN&gender=Mens&category=Insulated_Jackets&model=Fission-SL-Jacket
[23:22] <adamgreig> no actual down
[23:23] <adamgreig> but everyone says it's much warmer anyway
[23:23] <eroomde> so that's like a insulating layer + hard shall in one
[23:24] <Vaizki> I'm sure it's nice but I'm keeping my cocoon
[23:24] <adamgreig> i enjoy that arc'teryx have an "essentials" range that runs to a £600 down jacket http://arcteryx.com/product.aspx?language=EN&gender=Mens&category=Insulated_Jackets&model=Ceres-Jacket
[23:26] michal_f (~michal_f@91.146.241.130) left irc: Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!
[23:26] <eroomde> maybe it's a way of deducting against tax
[23:26] <adamgreig> hah
[23:26] <Vaizki> it's serious outerwear, I've never seen a crappy product from them.. a lot of other brands that make good stuff also churn out supermarket rack crap for the U.S. which gets sold in Europe as a premium product
[23:27] <adamgreig> yea, they earnt their reputation
[23:27] <Vaizki> .. and now they cash in
[23:27] <adamgreig> i would have been kitted out in nothing but their clothes if i found a duffel bag full of money on my way in to london
[23:28] <Vaizki> that's why they have big holding companies that own a bunch of brands, each in a different tier + lifecycle phase..
[23:28] <adamgreig> oh no some brie got in my thinkpad keyboard. brb
[23:28] <eroomde> first word hacker problems
[23:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03default_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=default_chase
[23:29] <Vaizki> I hope you don't have your brie with jam
[23:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03louise nicboll belfast _chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=louise%20nicboll%20belfast%20_chase
[23:30] <Vaizki> and I got my handheld super duper discounted fully isolated scope today.. haven't had a proper play with it but seems like a decent all-in-one
[23:30] <Vaizki> never seen a scope that has 200V/div vertical scale before
[23:31] <Vaizki> and by all-in-one I mean it seems to work ok as a 8000 count DMM as well
[23:31] Rob_vk1kw (7cabc73d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.171.199.61) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[23:33] <adamgreig> nice
[23:35] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) joined #highaltitude.
[23:36] <mattbrejza> persumably 200V/div is with x100 probes?
[23:40] Amadiro (jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no) left irc: Excess Flood
[23:42] <Vaizki> nope, 1x
[23:43] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[23:44] <Vaizki> or hmm well tbh I didn't check what the probes are
[23:45] <Vaizki> now I have to check...
[23:46] Amadiro (jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no) joined #highaltitude.
[23:48] <Vaizki> yes it's 200V/div on x1 and 200kV/div on x1000 :)
[23:49] <Vaizki> so now I have to climb a powerline pylon to test it..
[23:49] <adamgreig> wow
[23:49] <adamgreig> haha
[23:49] <adamgreig> just throw a wire over
[23:52] <Vaizki> came with a probe that says 10:1 and 600V CAT IV .. no 200kV probe ;)
[23:52] <mattbrejza> or does this scope just have one division? :P
[23:53] <Vaizki> anyway, I'm not going to measure anything in the kV range.. just surprised at the 200V.. it's got 8 div :)
[23:54] <Vaizki> so I guess -600 to 600V @ 200V/div = 6 divs total with 1 at top & bottom left "over"
[23:54] <mattbrejza> you could get close if you started using GM tubes or PMTs
[23:56] <Vaizki> anyway it's one of these.. http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1714019.pdf
[23:56] <Vaizki> 40MHz version
[00:00] --- Wed Dec 30 2015