highaltitude.log.20151227

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[02:55] <Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0oZ7gWtlC_o
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[03:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HORUSLORA after 033 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HORUSLORA
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[11:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-6 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-6
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[11:23] <lakin> hi
[11:24] <lakin> Is it possible to make a lorawan gateway with your hardware?
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[11:58] <chris_99> http://streaming.media.ccc.de/32c3/hall6/
[11:58] <chris_99> ^ "REXUS/BEXUS - Rocket and Balloon Experiments for University Students"
[12:00] Nick change: Guest19068 -> richardeoin
[12:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VE2WMG-11 after 033 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE2WMG-11
[12:04] <craag> lakin: If you're talking about the Lora Pi Board, it's literally just a board that hooks the control interface and power supplies of the HopeRF LoRa module up to the Pi
[12:05] <Darkside_> so after that point its all software
[12:05] <craag> So the answer to your question totally depends on whether or not you can get software for the Pi to perform a LoraWAN gateway on linux, talking to a HopeRF LoRa module over SPI.
[12:05] <craag> Which I don't know.
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[12:17] <lakin> craag, thanks for the answer. I found this software: https://github.com/Lora-net/packet_forwarder/tree/master/beacon_pkt_fwd however very little documentation is available unfortunately.
[12:19] <daveake> Well the schematic on that page shows a LoRa concentrator and a GPS; the Pi LoRa board has neither
[12:20] <daveake> As craag said, it's just a HopeRF LoRa module on a board, connected to power/SPI/GPIO pins on the Pi
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[12:20] <daveake> Ah well
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[12:22] <daveake> lakin:
[12:22] <daveake> <daveake> Well the schematic on that page shows a LoRa concentrator and a GPS; the Pi LoRa board has neither
[12:22] <daveake> <daveake> As craag said, it's just a HopeRF LoRa module on a board, connected to power/SPI/GPIO pins on the Pi
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[12:41] <fsphil> http://hackaday.com/2015/12/27/eagle-to-kicad-made-easy/
[12:48] <lakin> Thanks daveake and craag, will do more research on Lora!
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[13:40] <Vaizki> I believe lorawan gateway radios can receive on a wider band to catch multiple frequencies and also handle overlapping chirps better
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[15:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[16:32] <KT5TK> Using the holidays for asembling a new prototype: https://kt5tk.wordpress.com/
[16:35] <Lunar_Lander> yay!
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[16:45] <KT5TK> Soldering an UFBGA is much easier than LQFP. You are not supposed to make a mistake at alignment, but if it's accurately aligned, then there are no problems.
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[16:51] <adamgreig> yea, i've found lqfp a lot more of a pain than qfn for the same reason
[16:51] <adamgreig> your new prototype looks very nice!
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[16:59] <KT5TK> Thanks to DL7AD (Sven) for doing the design
[17:00] <adamgreig> do you align your ufbga by hand? normal stencil for putting paste down on those pads?
[17:00] <adamgreig> any particular process tips? i'm thinking of trying one of the stm32 ufbgas soonish too
[17:01] <KT5TK> Yes, we use a stencil. Chip is aligned by hand using forceps
[17:01] <KT5TK> we use low melting point solder paste and solder on a crep maker
[17:01] <KT5TK> crepes
[17:02] <adamgreig> oh interesting
[17:02] <KT5TK> The printed outline on the top layer is essential for manual alignment
[17:02] <adamgreig> rather than a reflow oven
[17:02] <adamgreig> yea I bet
[17:03] <KT5TK> Yes, we only heat from the bottom
[17:03] <adamgreig> gotta hope your board house has good silk alignment i guess
[17:03] <KT5TK> true
[17:03] <adamgreig> do you only heat from the bottom specifically for the BGA or is that what you usually do?
[17:03] <KT5TK> We always do it that way.
[17:03] <adamgreig> do you x-ray the bga afterwards or anything else to check it's ok?
[17:03] <KT5TK> But it may be an advantage for the BGA
[17:04] <KT5TK> no X ray. Just Ohm-meter
[17:05] <KT5TK> 1 mm thick PCB. We often use 0.8mm or even 0.6mm
[17:05] <KT5TK> The PCB is two laye only
[17:06] <KT5TK> layer
[17:07] <adamgreig> cool
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[17:28] <DL7AD> ping Upu UpuWork
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[18:07] <eroomde> and the prize for the best product photo goes to http://uk.farnell.com/analog-devices/amp01fx/instrument-amplifier-570khz-125db/dp/2236310
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> hah
[18:08] <SpeedEvil> With pricing down to for decimal places.
[18:10] <eroomde> milspec.
[18:11] <eroomde> also look at page 13 of the datasheet
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> Quality
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> Also the lasst page is dody
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> or it's xpdf
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[18:15] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/XsohoxD - how to let four people ride with a one person helicopter.
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[18:33] <number10> nice bent pin
[18:34] <KT5TK> The pin is bent to match the impedance of course
[18:35] <number10> :)
[18:36] <number10> if only that were the o/p
[18:39] <number10> my typing is getting more yoda like by the day
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[18:58] <eroomde> adamgreig: 'walking the himilayas' on ch4 at 8
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[19:25] <adamgreig> ta eroomde
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[20:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-57 after 0311 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-57
[20:04] <Laurenceb_> what the heck
[20:04] <Laurenceb_> how is it still up
[20:10] <nick_> It was just taking a boxing day nap?
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[20:16] <mattbrejza> next challenge is to cross the latitude at which the sun is currently above
[20:20] <bertrik> has anyone here made some progress to decode lora modulation?
[20:21] <eroomde> i've not seen it discussed much
[20:21] <eroomde> i think there is more enthsuiasm (but as little progress) on making a non-closed alternative
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[20:22] <eroomde> perhaps something that can be decoded by ham radio receivers
[20:22] <mattbrejza> doesnt help that its patented
[20:22] <bertrik> well, being patented means it's actually documented to some degree, I thought
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[20:22] <mattbrejza> i wonder if thers a cheaky way around that (eg providing soruce but no binaries with a disclaimer)
[20:23] <bertrik> I have looked a bit at the spectrum of course, it looks like multi-fsk on very low bit rates, reminded me of dominoex
[20:24] <mattbrejza> its not multifsk, if you play with the waterfall settings youll see it sweeps
[20:24] <eroomde> people have certainly studied the protocol, it's fine enough
[20:24] <mattbrejza> if your fft length is too long it looks like mfsk
[20:24] <eroomde> just a shame they patented it - it's not that special
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[20:25] <mattbrejza> i dont understand the patent system well enough to work out specifically what they patented, seeing as the basic modulation scheme is pretty old i thought?
[20:25] <realborg> good old times when some inventors actually refused to patent something
[20:25] <eroomde> i say this every now and then, to no particular end, but for a balloon with a 10mW 1/4 wave, and a ham radio receiver with a dipole, and 100km between them, and say 2.4kHz useable bandwidth, you can achieve reliable data rates of >10kbps theoretically
[20:26] <eroomde> it's just that we've never really bothered
[20:26] <eroomde> but there's so much (much, much) more we can do with the existing ham setups without selling out to lora
[20:27] <mattbrejza> lora can do 6kbps or so, but that extra bandwidth hasnt really been made good use of
[20:28] <eroomde> exactly - if you can do 10kbps with 2.4khz, 6kbps with the bandwidth lora uses (like 10x that?) is very conservative still
[20:30] <bertrik> I was just wondering about the possibility to do lora decoding using sdr, not really looking for more data throughput
[20:30] <mattbrejza> a lora sdr program certianly would be useful
[20:31] <bertrik> and increasing my knowledge about how the lora stuff works exactly
[20:31] <mattbrejza> did you see leo's attempt?
[20:31] <bertrik> mattbrejza: I don't think I've seen it yet
[20:31] <mattbrejza> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/LoRa/LoRa-2.gif
[20:32] <mattbrejza> https://github.com/hexameron/rtl-sdrangelove/tree/master/plugins/channel/lora (another attempt)
[20:32] <bertrik> ah nice
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[20:40] <bertrik> mattbrejza: do you know how the modulation works? does lora modulation actually become clear from the patent texts?
[20:44] <bertrik> from the lora-2.gif it looks like a constant sweep-modulo-bandwidth, but with phase jumps for each symbol, do I understand that correctly?
[20:45] <realborg> i want to calculate gravity and centripedal force on flying objects, what is the correct gravitational value to start with? 9.83m/s2 at polar radius 6356km?
[20:46] <eroomde> sounds fair enough
[20:47] <eroomde> if you're doing stuff in the low atmosphere
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> hi folks, late happy Christmas all :D
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: you might be intrigued by this http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19660027976.pdf
[20:49] <SM0ULC-Reb> LoRa for SDR would be nice for edu
[20:50] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: wow
[20:50] <eroomde> that looks... ambitious
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> yeah, but then actually not so hard
[20:52] <Laurenceb_> I tried grabbing all the stuff from the appendix and applying to Falcon 9 with 3M Nextel, TeijinConex and polyimide film
[20:53] <Laurenceb_> case out as first stage recovery with 20minutes hover weighed 1.4tonnes, and stage 2 recovery from orbit was 800kg onto stage 2
[20:53] <Laurenceb_> so 6 tonnes to GTO with full recovery
[20:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PYSY - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PYSY
[20:54] <Laurenceb_> as opposed to 4.85 atm with 1st stage barge landing
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[21:03] <Hiena> Hmmm...i'm thinking setting up a listening station. Just found three, old, 70cm yagi (5, 7, 14 element) in the attic. The question is, i could modify and hook them as omnidirectional and add each one a 20dB gain block, but what to connect to them as a receiver? I'm thinking something cheap solution, which could be hooked to the server at the attic, and it scans the whole band.
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[21:04] <eroomde> i'd keep the small one for chasing, and launch a hab if you haven't yet - it's really fun
[21:05] <eroomde> as for scanning the whole band, airspy seems to be recommended as the best bang-per-buck sdr
[21:06] <fab4space> bertrik, have you read this doc about lora modulation : http://www.semtech.com/images/datasheet/an1200.22.pdf ?
[21:06] <fab4space> you can see that it is Chirp Spread Spectrum
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[21:07] <bertrik> fab4space: no, I haven't. Looks like exactly what I wanted to know.
[21:08] <bertrik> thanks
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> I guess their existing solution is really quite attractive from that point of view
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> weird as it literally uses 80 tonnes of propellant, but everything is nonlinear :D
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[21:15] <mclane_> good evening everybody
[21:16] <mclane_> is upu available?
[21:18] <bertrik> fab4space: ok, after a quick reading of that doc I realize it's quite light on the details on how lora is implemented exactly, I shall read up on chirp spread spectrum
[21:20] <mclane_> ping Upu
[21:28] <Hiena> eroomde: it should be cheap (30 USD), and maintenance free solution. I have no time to sit next to them and tune it nor budget to pay it. 30 USD six rather good lunch for me.
[21:31] <eroomde> well good luck. let us know what you end up with and if it meets your expectations
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[21:57] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: I haven't actually read the paper as I should - at what pressure does it begin to inflate?
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: (wondering idly about mars)
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> I think it has to be pre deployed using Helium
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> or methane? :)
[21:57] <Laurenceb_> but max dynamic pressure is in the region of 1kPa
[21:59] <Laurenceb_> but hot air balloon on mars would be... hard
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> yes, I was assuming no hot air bit
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> Even a massive ballute helps
[22:01] <Laurenceb_> thats fairly standard stuff, there are lots of papers on ram air ballute for mars entry
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> yes, in fact using polyimide film seems to be optimal, even tho its lower temperature than ceramic fabric
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> as its available in very thin grades without high porosity
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[22:04] <Laurenceb_> I saw 3% mass fraction for a 7.5µm polyimide ballute for mars landing
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[22:06] <Vaizki> I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain.
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[22:54] <SpeedEvil> I've just seen rain.
[22:54] <SpeedEvil> I live in scotland.
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[23:11] <Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZSyniboP64
[23:16] <arko> thats legit
[23:16] <arko> cant wait to build my pc so i can plan this on hardware that isnt a potato
[23:16] <arko> play*
[23:17] <arko> that sequence would lag my laptop to hell
[23:17] <realborg> tinfoil hats meet fashion: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shieldapparel/shield-the-world-s-first-signal-proof-headwear
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> nice clip
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[00:00] --- Mon Dec 28 2015