highaltitude.log.20151220

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[00:14] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-57 after 039 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-57
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[00:36] <SpeedEvil> Is anyone awaer of a cheapish system with SD-client? That is - it pretends to be a SD card
[00:36] <SpeedEvil> Idly wondering, as people may hav eresearched this for HAB
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[00:55] <Laurenceb_> SD client??
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[01:12] <SpeedEvil> something that pretends to be a SD card.
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[08:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS12 after 0312 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS12
[08:56] <SA6BSS-Mike> looks like UBSEDS12 it is going up
[08:56] <Vaizki> Good start then
[08:57] <SA6BSS-Mike> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=c039f746c340c952bcbb6b986080e3ae09bf2805
[08:57] <SA6BSS-Mike> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/15796_trj001.gif
[09:03] <Vaizki> A bit north for me
[09:04] <SA6BSS-Mike> ubseds usuly goes to high alt with wide fotprint
[09:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/UBSEDS12_20151220/index.php?ind=1
[09:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL4MDW-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL4MDW-11
[09:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Humm needs height!
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[09:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah climbing again
[09:52] <SA6BSS-Mike> looks like its verry turbulent air
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[09:54] <PE2BZ> Goodmorning all!
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[10:25] <PE2BZ> !flights
[10:25] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03UBSEDS12 434.600 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(ca64)
[10:26] <realborg> contestia!
[10:27] <PE2BZ> !whois
[10:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> https://ukhas.org.uk/spacenearus_irc_bot
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[11:21] <AndyEsser> morning
[11:36] <richardeoin> hopefully UBSEDS12 can gain enough altitude before cloud cover hits from the west
[11:37] <richardeoin> this is a useful cloud map http://meteoradar.co.uk/clouds-sun-UK-Ireland#
[11:38] <fsphil> heh, I automatically try to drag the map
[11:38] <fsphil> haven't seen a non-draggable one in ages
[11:42] <AndyEsser> Quick question to people that's used AVR's... when a timer triggers, does it disable itself?
[11:43] <AndyEsser> nvm
[11:44] <fsphil> no
[11:44] <AndyEsser> :)
[11:44] <AndyEsser> my god was bad
[11:44] <AndyEsser> err
[11:44] <AndyEsser> code*
[11:44] <Upu> \\!dial UBSEDS12
[11:44] <Upu> !dial UBSEDS12
[11:44] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Latest dials for 03UBSEDS12 10(ca64): 03434.598998 MHz
[11:44] <fsphil> thou shalt read the holy datasheet
[11:45] <AndyEsser> that's where I was dragging my understanding from - i didn't think it would disable itself, as that is crazy
[11:45] <AndyEsser> but yea.. .didn't see the bug in my code :P
[11:45] <AndyEsser> whoops ;)
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[12:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
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[12:07] <M0XIN> Morning all
[12:07] <M0XIN> I've got a problem with this new install of dl-fldigi 3
[12:07] <M0XIN> For some reason auto-configure is greyed out
[12:08] <M0XIN> I am online and running in HAB mode
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[12:09] <M0XIN> The flight and payload are also listed
[12:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> I seem to recall mine did the same, I think it might be to do with the Contestia setting which isn't one that can be set automatically ?
[12:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> I'm on the older 2.1 version
[12:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> no it is 3.21 version
[12:11] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Yes if you choose a RTTY mode from another flight Autoconfigure re-appears OK
[12:11] <M0XIN> I can't seem to select a different mode
[12:11] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> ? Go to Op Mode and select it ?
[12:12] <M0XIN> Ahhh there we go
[12:13] <M0XIN> Thanks :)
[12:14] <M0XIN> Can't hear UBSEDS12 though
[12:14] <M0XIN> Still too low I guess
[12:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> ITs only once a minute with pips inbetween but at such a low height ther range is poor
[12:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Like me your well out of range
[12:18] <M0XIN> Yes definitely out of range, especially with my setup
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[12:38] <AndyEsser> *sigh* I need to buy a scope
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[12:54] <richardeoin> Yay Upu got a packet
[12:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> :)
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[13:11] <Jartza> https://youtu.be/Y2gl3R3jzjs
[13:12] <Jartza> not related, but I think there are some people who might appreciate
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[13:19] <AndyEsser> Jartza: that's very cool
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[13:22] <Upu> not bad considering I just left it going<3 for RSID
[13:22] <Upu> oh the rotator program crashes out craag
[13:22] <Upu> doesn't track it
[13:22] <craag> argh
[13:22] <craag> what's the error?
[13:22] <Upu> now I'm actually pointing at it getting decodes
[13:22] <Upu> 1 sec
[13:22] <craag> can't remember if I worked around the lack of sentence id in the end
[13:23] <Upu> Querying position..
[13:23] <Upu> Traceback (most recent call last):
[13:23] <Upu> File "habrotate-cli.py", line 200, in <module>
[13:23] <Upu> File "habrotate-cli.py", line 99, in grab_position
[13:23] <Upu> KeyError: 'sentence_id'
[13:23] <craag> :( guess not
[13:24] <Upu> how do I tell what version I'm running ?
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[13:25] <craag> Looking at code now - I hadn't fixed it, just left some notes
[13:26] <Upu> ok
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[13:27] <craag> Ah I fixed the sorting, but it still tries to populate it :/
[13:27] <Upu> richardeoin you trying to invent a new part of the hobby "low altitude ballooning" ?
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[13:27] <Upu> oh no sentence ID
[13:27] <Upu> I see
[13:27] <Upu> nice signal
[13:29] <craag> I haven't got a python build environment handy unfortunately, will note to get it built before richard's next flight..
[13:29] <AndyEsser> *shudder* python
[13:29] <Upu> its ok
[13:29] <Upu> I've pointed the antenna at the North sea
[13:29] <craag> :)
[13:30] <Upu> its so low doubt I'll be able to track it for long
[13:30] <Upu> but you never know
[13:30] <Upu> ok afk
[13:30] <richardeoin> Upu: well not intentionally, but it is going suprisingly well for something so low
[13:30] <Upu> shows you how windy it is :)
[13:30] <Upu> really afk now!
[13:31] <richardeoin> it's a new envelope so wasn't quite sure of the free lift
[13:31] <AndyEsser> 566m?
[13:31] <richardeoin> seemingly needs more
[13:31] <AndyEsser> nice!
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[13:31] <AndyEsser> also... -4 satellites?
[13:31] <AndyEsser> ignore me
[13:33] <richardeoin> craag: next flight will be Feb I imagine
[13:33] <richardeoin> alternatively I could add a sentence ID?
[13:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Peugeot _chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Peugeot%20_chase
[13:49] <craag> richardeoin: Nah don't worry about it, looks like I fixed the fundamental issue before but didn't clean up properly. Mine's the only bit of software having issues with it, I'll fix it.
[13:49] <craag> I also have a working tracker on the desk to test it with now.
[13:51] <AndyEsser> \o/
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[15:47] <Upu> wow
[15:47] <Upu> how the hell did I get that at 200m
[15:48] <Upu> it may have gone back up btw
[15:48] <SM0ULC-Reb> :)
[15:48] <Upu> $$UBSEDS12,14:20:21,53.64579,0.08166,320,10,1.50,17.0,-8*7353
[15:48] <SM0ULC-Reb> the art of low-skimming
[15:48] <bertrik> "ducting"? :D
[15:49] <Upu> 7$UBSEDS12,14:21:21,#DY65T17,0.K9025,178,10,1.50A1
[15:49] <adamgreig> sporadic e :P
[15:49] <Upu> woo woo
[15:50] <Upu> Also I'd like to claim it was my tracking skill but truth of the matter was I just pointed the antenna generally towards the North Sea and went to see relatives :)
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[15:58] <AndyEsser> richardeoin: going to recover?
[16:00] <Upu> haha
[16:01] <AndyEsser> Did I do a funny?
[16:01] <Upu> the sea..
[16:01] <Upu> I doubt thats on land
[16:02] <Upu> though you never know
[16:02] <fsphil> so nearly reached land
[16:02] <fsphil> the google satellite photo shows that as sand
[16:02] <fsphil> is the tide out?
[16:03] <AndyEsser> YEa, I was thinking that it's only 100-200m from the beach and will likely wash up
[16:09] <AndyEsser> *sigh* so bored :(
[16:09] <richardeoin> AndyEsser: a little to far away I think
[16:10] <richardeoin> I feel the tinyest bit bad about the littering though
[16:10] <adamgreig> go pick up some litter in the park to balance it out
[16:10] <adamgreig> won't take long to balance it :P
[16:10] <richardeoin> I should go help with some enviromental thing in Bristol
[16:11] <richardeoin> Haha beat me to it adamgreig
[16:15] <AndyEsser> haha
[16:15] <AndyEsser> TBH. if it was earlier in the day, I'd have driven over to see if I could find it
[16:31] <Laurenceb_> I was randomly thinking
[16:31] <Laurenceb_> with panasonic lithium ion now approaching 1MJ/Kg, hobby level 24 hour solar flight should be feasible
[16:31] <Laurenceb_> especially using a high altitude balloon launched flying wing
[16:31] <Laurenceb_> could be a fun project
[16:32] <chris_99> cool, is that in 18650 cells
[16:32] <adamgreig> if you enjoy CAA paperwork anyway
[16:32] <Laurenceb_> yes 18650
[16:32] <Laurenceb_> I looked at this a few years ago and it looked too hard
[16:33] <Laurenceb_> but I think it may have just crossed the threshold to feasibility
[16:35] <Laurenceb_> a balloon would help a lot as you could launch something with a cruise altitude of 30km or so
[16:35] <Laurenceb_> so lots of sunlight and significantly improved cell performance due to the low temperature
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[17:00] <Laurenceb_> it'd take some complex analysis, but with the right aerofoil and a flying wing it may work
[17:00] <Laurenceb_> http://airfoiltools.com/airfoil/details?airfoil=dae21-il
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[17:13] <fsphil> http://aurorawatch.lancs.ac.uk/
[17:13] <fsphil> never seen it that strog before :)
[17:13] <fsphil> strong
[17:13] <fsphil> stupid n key
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[17:40] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Well...
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: In principle, ~100W or so IR lasers are tractable.
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> (NVIR)
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[17:59] <Laurenceb_> if you could really make a flying wing with 140:1 lift to drag there would be no need for batteries
[17:59] <Laurenceb_> just glide overnight
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[18:12] <Kam> Hi guys
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[18:13] <eroomde> good evening Kam
[18:13] <SpeedEvil> 'Good news - I have designed an aerofoil to enable me to fly around the world with a 140:1 glide ratio. Bad news - to overcome tip vortex issues, the wing needs to be 40000km long.
[18:13] <Kam> Hi
[18:14] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: aerofoil theory is fun right
[18:15] <Kam> Got my Arduino kit today :) hope to do some testing after Xmas, also Pi in the Sky is on the way...
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> Alas I know enough to know I know nothing.
[18:15] <eroomde> my forays into it are very limited but it's a sort of interesting-messy problem
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> It's way more tractable at >>>mach 1.
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.com/itm/200W-808nm-QCW-High-Power-Laser-Diode-Bar-Array-DPSS-750-1060nm-NEW-/391335001943 - fun
[18:16] Action: SpeedEvil manages to utterly fail to get datasheets.
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> I suspect it's pulsed
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> ^am sure
[18:17] <Kam> I'm still researching how to get live video footage from my balloon any ideas?
[18:17] <eroomde> where are you geographKam?
[18:17] <eroomde> geopgraphically*
[18:17] <eroomde> aaaagh
[18:17] <eroomde> geographically
[18:17] <eroomde> Kam, where are you?
[18:17] <Kam> UK now but will do in Poland too
[18:17] <eroomde> ok, you won't get live footage
[18:17] <Kam> now Northampton
[18:18] <eroomde> well, i'm not sure about poland 100%
[18:18] <eroomde> but you won't in the uk
[18:18] <Kam> damn :?
[18:18] <Kam> :/
[18:18] <eroomde> it's, for almost all non-pathological cases, just not physically possible within the power and bandwidth constraints allowed to us for unlicensed airborne transmissions
[18:19] <eroomde> it might be possible if you can get an experimental permit
[18:19] <eroomde> but you usually have to pay for that, and display a level of competance (they might come and visit your site and talk to you to check that you know what you're doing)
[18:20] <Kam> just came a cross of this video... so nice :)
[18:20] <Kam> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGeYNaCl6Go
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[18:23] <Kam> are there any interesting HAB projects happening in the next few weeks in the UK?
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[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:24] <eroomde> Kam: ubseds was up today
[18:24] <eroomde> no contact for a few hours though
[18:24] <eroomde> started in bristol, last contact off the coast by hull
[18:28] <Kam> looks like will be lost in the sea
[18:28] <eroomde> that's a really tiny tracker, http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/pico-tracker/
[18:30] <Kam> I'm looking to participate in some kind of project in the next few weeks. Any ideas?
[18:31] <eroomde> to track?
[18:31] <Kam> any ;)
[18:31] <Kam> we have also at least 5 balloons ready to go
[18:32] <eroomde> well there should be things to track over the next few weeks
[18:32] <Lunar_Lander> cool tracker
[18:32] <eroomde> are you subscribed to the ukhas mailing list?
[18:32] <Kam> not yet will do now
[18:32] <eroomde> that's where flights are announced, usually
[18:32] <eroomde> so you'll get some heads-up
[18:32] <Kam> thanks
[18:32] <eroomde> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas
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[18:36] <AndyEsser> evening all
[18:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03default_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=default_chase
[18:37] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[18:37] <Kam> Hi
[18:37] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I believe you linked me to a decent scope the other week, but I failed to favourite it - don't suppose you could let me have it again?
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[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> ds1054z
[18:38] <eroomde> ^
[18:38] <AndyEsser> o0o £250.00
[18:38] <AndyEsser> right in the price range I was looking for
[18:38] <eroomde> that's far-and-away the best budget scope
[18:39] <AndyEsser> looks pretty as well :P
[18:40] <eroomde> you'll enjoy it
[18:40] <russss> I can never get on with Rigol's user interface. I don't have that problem with other DSOs for some reason.
[18:40] <AndyEsser> might have to order that after xmas, I need a way to accurately figure out my timing code since I think it's slightly off
[18:40] <russss> they are great for the price though
[18:40] <eroomde> yeah, it becomes a necessaity for anything non-trivial
[18:40] <eroomde> just to see what's actually going on
[18:40] <AndyEsser> yea
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[18:43] <AndyEsser> o0o has built in bus decoding
[18:44] <eroomde> they're not all created equal
[18:44] <eroomde> so don't get too excited
[18:44] <eroomde> but yes, useful
[18:44] Action: AndyEsser jumps up and down
[18:44] <AndyEsser> :)
[18:45] <AndyEsser> Ah well, workbench construction first - then new toys
[18:45] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/jRt6RWV.jpg
[18:45] <eroomde> this is the usual thing with comparing specs and wondering why one scope costs 4x more than the other for apparently similar specs
[18:45] <eroomde> it's a question you ask until you use test equipment in combat situations
[18:45] <eroomde> then you see
[18:45] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb_: I've not had any problems with Windows 10
[18:46] <Laurenceb_> me neither, I run linux
[18:46] <AndyEsser> eroomde: do you often use test equipment in combat situations?
[18:46] <AndyEsser> :P
[18:46] <eroomde> yes
[18:46] <eroomde> i am fighting all the time
[18:46] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb_: I spend most of my days in linux VM's - not yet ready to give up Windows as a Host due to Visual Studio, and most of my software targeting Windows
[18:46] <Laurenceb_> eroomde is in the SAS
[18:47] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb_: no no, it's HAS not SAS
[18:47] <AndyEsser> :P
[18:47] <eroomde> The Battle for Better Effective Bits, 2014
[18:47] <eroomde> The Battle of Bloody Common Mode Rejection, 2013
[18:47] <eroomde> it's all violent
[18:47] <AndyEsser> Did you take a year off in 2015?
[18:48] <eroomde> gotta fight the good FET
[18:48] <AndyEsser> :(
[18:48] <AndyEsser> o god
[18:48] <AndyEsser> you did not just do that
[18:48] <eroomde> i didn't do much electronics this year, it all worked quite nicely on the rocket
[18:48] <eroomde> this year was mostly a rocket science problem than an electrical engineering problem
[18:48] <AndyEsser> I have a book on my Amazon wishlist "Missile Guidance and Control Systems", my brother refuses to get it for me as he's convinced it'll put him on some FBI list
[18:49] <eroomde> i think i have a copy
[18:49] <eroomde> it's not that thrilling
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> I have "Tactical Missile Design" pdf from dtic.mil
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> its kind of basic but has some useful equations and models in there
[18:49] <eroomde> the usual hodge podge of 19 guest editors trying to turn 49 individually-guest-authored chapters into something coherent
[18:50] <adamgreig> more likely to get on a watchlist buying a set of accurate scales
[18:50] <AndyEsser> or building a clock
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> you mean "hacking" an ancient alarm clock
[18:50] <Laurenceb_> then trolling your teachers pretending its a bomb
[18:52] <toresbe> Oh give it a freaking rest.
[18:52] Action: eroomde prepares to gently move the conversation away from this
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[18:53] <adamgreig> so i'm doing a PCB to sorta teach smt reflow soldering and sorta test/calibrate an oven
[18:53] <adamgreig> want a circuit with just digital logic and no microcontroller that'l do something fun when it powers up
[18:53] <adamgreig> the more passives that require placing the better really
[18:53] <eroomde> have it play snake
[18:53] <eroomde> against itself
[18:54] <eroomde> on a 16x16 led matrix
[18:54] <adamgreig> snake is not really a competitive game?
[18:54] <adamgreig> it could play snake but i'm not sure how it would play it against itself :P
[18:54] <eroomde> have it simulate snake with the optimum strategy then
[18:54] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: something with a 555 timer and a matrix display or something?
[18:54] <adamgreig> well my current idea is indeed a 555 and 4017, recalling GCSE lessons of days gone by
[18:54] <AndyEsser> ah good times
[18:55] <adamgreig> you can do whole scanning LEDs thing and with a bunch of diodes you can have some nice effects
[18:55] <adamgreig> but it's not very inspired
[18:55] <AndyEsser> maybe an old school calculator using actual gates?
[18:55] <eroomde> you could hand-place a seven seg display made of LEDs
[18:55] <adamgreig> you can buy ADCs that self-clock and output 8bit parallel, into which you could do a binary-to-bcd and then bcd-to-7seg, combined with a cheap analogue 10mV/C temperature sensor you could do a nice temperature display
[18:55] <eroomde> and have it count down or something
[18:56] <adamgreig> but it gets a bit expensive
[18:56] <adamgreig> there's the classic "electronic dice"
[18:56] <eroomde> blast through while finger is held on the push button?
[18:56] <adamgreig> where you have your mod6 counter, some logic to drive a 7-dot die face, clock very fast while holding button
[18:56] <adamgreig> yea
[18:57] <AndyEsser> if I remember correctly... eroomde made an electronic dice which was hand-wavey operated for his GCSE project?
[18:57] <adamgreig> there might be some "fun" simple games you could do, like a simon-says or a number-guessing or a reaction speed thing
[18:57] <eroomde> i had actually forgotten about that
[18:57] <eroomde> but yes i did
[18:57] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: was going to suggest a simon says type game, but wasn't sure how best to store the sequence (flip-flops?)
[18:57] <adamgreig> shift register could work
[18:57] <AndyEsser> eroomde: always remember back to that when I think about how car proximity sensors work :)
[18:57] <eroomde> you just waved your hand over the top in a sort of spirit-summoning way (just ultrasonics) and it rolled the dice for you
[18:58] <AndyEsser> yea, it was a pyramid wasn't it?
[18:58] <eroomde> yes
[18:58] <adamgreig> hah, gcse projects
[18:58] <AndyEsser> good ol' vac-formed project cases :)
[18:58] <eroomde> they really were shit
[18:58] <adamgreig> i did a multifunction IR gate with a timer/counter/alarm
[18:58] <eroomde> i was so much happier at a-level when i could make what i wanted
[18:58] <adamgreig> vac formed project cases!
[18:58] <AndyEsser> eroomde: hey! I was quite happy with my GCSE project (other than the case bit of it)
[18:58] <AndyEsser> at least compared to what the rest of my class did
[18:58] <eroomde> rather than some tat in a vacuum-formed case
[18:58] <adamgreig> huge tub of vaseline in the teacher's desk
[18:58] <AndyEsser> eroomde: my 6th form school had no electronics :(
[18:59] <eroomde> did you not stay for 6th form?
[18:59] <AndyEsser> nope
[18:59] <AndyEsser> I had to leave after GCSE
[18:59] <eroomde> i have somehow forgotten that
[18:59] <eroomde> i guess you were there during my ASs
[18:59] <eroomde> and i just forgot about a2
[18:59] <AndyEsser> yea, and then was back reasonably often anyway :P
[18:59] <AndyEsser> to do theatre stuff etc
[18:59] <eroomde> i didn't do much theatre stuff in a2
[19:00] <AndyEsser> I miss it - but not sure I could cope doing AmDram stuff
[19:00] <eroomde> got a little samey
[19:00] <AndyEsser> Cranleigh kind of spoilt me with fancy stuff
[19:00] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I stopped doing the plays and just did the concerts as it got samey
[19:00] <eroomde> yeah it was not a bad place to get a start in theatrical stuff
[19:00] <eroomde> we just take it for granted that you have 256 dimmer channels and hundreds of circuits on a patch panel
[19:01] <AndyEsser> hehe yea
[19:01] <eroomde> well not actually for granted, i remember making the damn patch panels
[19:01] <eroomde> and wiring many thousands of plugs onto the ends of cables
[19:01] <AndyEsser> it was emotional saying goodbye to the lighting desk
[19:01] <eroomde> in the dimmer room
[19:01] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I was gated for the weekend that Chris was rewiring the dimmer room
[19:01] <eroomde> for like 18 hours straight
[19:01] <eroomde> in hindsight that was slave labour
[19:01] <AndyEsser> so I just spent the whole weekend in there
[19:01] <AndyEsser> eroomde: it really was
[19:01] <AndyEsser> slave child labour
[19:01] <eroomde> yes
[19:02] <eroomde> i literally spent about 12 hours a day in there before and during shows, after the school day
[19:02] <AndyEsser> yep
[19:02] <eroomde> like lunch-midnight
[19:02] <AndyEsser> but I learnt so much from it
[19:02] <AndyEsser> I look back on it fondly, rather than thinking we were slaves
[19:02] <eroomde> stockholm syndrome
[19:02] <AndyEsser> hahaha
[19:02] <AndyEsser> maybe
[19:02] <AndyEsser> :P
[19:03] <AndyEsser> I wouldn't be sitting in here if it weren't for Chris - so can't really complain ;)
[19:03] <eroomde> but yes it serves well
[19:04] <eroomde> there is quite a lot of overlap between theatre tech and rocket people, i've noticed
[19:04] <AndyEsser> ha
[19:04] <eroomde> 3 of the 5 of us at work have worked in theatres
[19:04] <AndyEsser> nice
[19:04] <AndyEsser> must be something about the psychology of people that attracts them to both
[19:05] <eroomde> maybe it's being at one with the risk spontaneous fire
[19:05] <AndyEsser> hah
[19:05] <AndyEsser> I remember having to spend an entire show in the dimmer room with a fire extinguisher once because it had started smoking the night before
[19:05] <AndyEsser> eroomde: were you there when I had to hide in the loft space to pour rose petals down on the actors at the end of the show? and my phone slipped out of my pocket?
[19:05] <eroomde> like scotty
[19:06] <eroomde> was i there?
[19:06] <eroomde> i was fucking DSM
[19:06] <eroomde> and that gave me a heart attack
[19:06] <AndyEsser> hehe
[19:06] <AndyEsser> the chatter on the cans was amusing
[19:06] <eroomde> at the end of the poignant ww1 memorial bit, having a nokia fall from the roof
[19:06] <AndyEsser> "What was that?! Did a bulb blow?!"
[19:06] <AndyEsser> Me: "err... sorry... phone slipped out of my pocket"
[19:06] <craag> bet the stage was more dented than the nokia ;)
[19:06] <AndyEsser> thank god it hit the grid
[19:06] <eroomde> no it hit the grid craag
[19:06] <eroomde> we had like chicken wire beneath the roof rig
[19:06] <craag> ah, lucky that!
[19:06] <AndyEsser> craag: it hit a metal grid about 2 foot below me, which stopped it doing the 40ft drop
[19:07] <eroomde> and it sat there teatering and i didn't take my eye off it for the rest of the show
[19:07] <AndyEsser> hehe
[19:07] <eroomde> like stealing the noc list in Mission Impossible
[19:07] <AndyEsser> paranoid someone was going to phone me and the vibrations would make it slip
[19:07] <eroomde> but it also made a noise like a phone being dropped onto a tennis-court-sized area of chicken wire
[19:07] <craag> we had a grid like that in the studio theatre, but far too large to hold a phone
[19:07] <craag> (personal experience, luckily not during a performance)
[19:08] <craag> hehe
[19:08] <AndyEsser> craag: this was just small enough to stop my 3310 :)
[19:08] <eroomde> also you on the moving spots
[19:08] <eroomde> telling you jokes
[19:08] <AndyEsser> "EATER! STOP JIGGLING!"
[19:08] <eroomde> and the spot light used to start vibrating a lot because you were laughing
[19:08] <AndyEsser> yea, I wasn't too good at the follow spots
[19:08] <AndyEsser> hehe
[19:09] <AndyEsser> o god, what were they called?
[19:09] <craag> worst I had was when a flat came down during final rehearsal night, and the drama director decided during the following day to put a couple of extra stage weights on *from one of the counterweight stacks*
[19:09] <AndyEsser> bloody drama directors
[19:10] <eroomde> craag: you can see up into the roof there http://www.cranleigh.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/SMO_4453.jpg
[19:10] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I actually thought I saw Miss Mac the other week when I was walking to work
[19:10] <craag> the jumping off the bridge scene at the end of Le Mis
[19:10] <eroomde> the roof space was full-width of the hall, with the chicken wire bit visible in the centre
[19:10] <craag> bridge was supposed to fly in gently in the dark behind
[19:10] <AndyEsser> craag: come in with a bit more speed than planned?
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[19:11] <eroomde> i almost set fire to the roof once when i pulled one of those downlighters out to drop a steel cable in for a fly
[19:11] <craag> yeah... broke the bridge prop..
[19:11] <craag> 2 feet behind the actor
[19:11] <AndyEsser> eroomde: left it on the panelling?
[19:11] <eroomde> i left the downlighter face down on the plaster roof
[19:11] <eroomde> yes
[19:11] <AndyEsser> hehe
[19:12] <craag> haha
[19:12] <eroomde> and then they turned them on for some parents evening or something
[19:12] <AndyEsser> I remember when we built a stage for a concert, that was on hydraulics and slid out into the audience during the final act
[19:12] <eroomde> and had to evacuate after the whole hall filled with smoke
[19:12] <AndyEsser> eroomde: ha!
[19:12] <eroomde> chris took the blame for that one
[19:12] <eroomde> though i felt bad
[19:12] <AndyEsser> Do you remember Adam Norrington?
[19:12] <eroomde> but then i didn't appreciate that teachers really do have to have oversight and responsibility for all that stuff
[19:13] <fsphil> aurora visible from cookstown, should be visible from northern england and scotland too
[19:13] <eroomde> Nozza
[19:13] <eroomde> yes
[19:13] <AndyEsser> eroomde: remember when he put his hand through a plate glass window?
[19:13] <eroomde> yes
[19:13] <AndyEsser> hehe
[19:13] <AndyEsser> I felt a little bad about that
[19:13] <eroomde> brb
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[19:17] <eroomde> bk
[19:17] <eroomde> there are a lot of strange memories thinking abouyt it
[19:17] <AndyEsser> heh indeed
[19:17] <AndyEsser> right, I have been summoned elsewhere, so shall be back on later
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[19:18] <eroomde> whenever i hear born in the USA now i get anxious
[19:18] <eroomde> that was among the more stressful plays (catch-22) that i did
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[19:21] <Laurenceb_> what the heck http://www.atlantiksolar.ethz.ch/
[19:21] <Laurenceb_> I dont get it
[19:23] <Laurenceb_> seems way too easy
[19:24] <eroomde> you think they are underestimating how hard it is?
[19:25] <Laurenceb_> no, cuz it appears to work.. unless they faked it :P
[19:25] <Laurenceb_> so I must be overestimating how hard it is
[19:26] <Laurenceb_> http://www.atlantiksolar.ethz.ch/wp-content/downloads/publications/AtlantikSolar_ICRA_2015_vFinal.pdf
[19:26] <Laurenceb_> looks very hobbyist friendly.. but I still can't make sense of the power budget
[19:28] <Laurenceb_> table 1 is very conservative
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[19:28] <Laurenceb_> doable with good lipo in fact
[19:28] <eroomde> ttfn
[19:30] <Laurenceb_> oh I spot where they cheated
[19:30] <Laurenceb_> stall speed 8m/s
[19:30] <Laurenceb_> so its stupidly slow and useless in the real world :P
[19:31] <Laurenceb_> 17mph lol
[19:31] <Hiena> https://i.imgur.com/sgzHu1v.jpg <= Ouch...ouch...ouch...
[19:34] <Laurenceb_> no wonder they haven't launched it across the ocean yet, it wouldn't last long
[19:37] <Laurenceb_> we need practical lithium sulphur
[19:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RIA-20 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RIA-20
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[20:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ria-20a_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ria-20a_chase
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[20:52] <russss> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/678679083782377472
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[20:53] <arko> lol monte carlo
[20:53] <adamgreig> i wonder how many of their simulation runs end in it crashing
[20:54] <arko> i feel like people rely wayyy to much on simulation
[20:54] <arko> too much*
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[20:58] <arko> dont get me wrong, theyre a useful tool
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[21:38] <Vaizki> evening peeps
[21:41] <Vaizki> hmm so no sign of UBSEDS after it cleared the uk british coast?
[21:42] <Upu> it was coming down
[21:42] <Upu> may have actually landed
[21:42] <Upu> on land
[21:43] <Vaizki> ah
[21:44] <Upu> last position was 200meters and saw 175 before it disappeared
[21:44] <Vaizki> so contestia 16/1000.. that means 16 tones spread out over 1kHz?
[21:44] <Vaizki> oh
[21:44] <Upu> it was a new type of ballooning , low altitude ballooning
[21:44] <Upu> never went above 1000m
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> hi Upu
[21:45] <Upu> hey Lunar
[21:45] <Upu> but managed to go 300km :)
[21:46] <Vaizki> yea sorry I somehow mixed up tracker on my phone there
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:47] <SA6BSS-Mike> I have listened for it but nothing
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[21:48] <SA6BSS-Mike> mailed brian oz1sky and he have listend for it as well but heard nothing
[21:49] <Vaizki> I was wondering what is going on at the UBSEDS frequency, then realized it's a DMR repeater
[21:50] <SA6BSS-Mike> ps-57 comming in a good possition for eu soon
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[22:00] <SpeedEvil> Elon Musk @elonmusk 1h1 hour ago
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> Just reviewed mission params w SpaceX team. Monte Carlo runs show tmrw night has a 10% higher chance of a good landing. Punting 24 hrs.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> - for those planning on watching tonight
[22:08] <AndyEsser> will more than likely just have to watch it back on YouTube or wherever
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[22:17] <mattbrejza> when is 8pm local time in uk time?
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[22:18] <AndyEsser> I'm guessing it's Canaveral launch?
[22:18] <AndyEsser> So it'll be Eastern Time
[22:18] Action: AndyEsser checks
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[22:18] <AndyEsser> -5 hours difference
[22:18] <AndyEsser> so 8pm is 1am here
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> 1am
[22:19] <Laurenceb_> oops
[22:19] <mattbrejza> ah thanks
[22:19] <mattbrejza> will the landing be streamed though?
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> It will be 1AM tuesday
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[22:21] <SpeedEvil> (it would have been 1AM monday the launch gMT)
[22:21] <mattbrejza> oh thats tomorrow (local)
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> yes
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> I would love to knwo the parameters of the model they're using
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> probably wind and gusts
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> He also tweeted yesterday that F9 stage 1 could get to orbit alone.
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> gust at landing could be bad
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> wow, presumably with densification?
[22:23] <AndyEsser> is it literally a full launch, orbit and land mission?
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> stage 2 is single use
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> they did look at stage 2 reuse, there is a photo of a stage 2 with heat shield
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: he diddn't say, but presumably.
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> not sure if they developed it any further
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> Many first stages could in principle do SSTO
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> as it'd have to land somehow...
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> (F9-1 could not get back if it did SSTO, as it has no adequate thermal protection)
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> S2 is _much_ more challenging and nasty
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> A kilo of legs/... on S2 is a kilo off the payload.
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> A kilo on S1 is 50g (?) off the payload.
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[22:25] <SpeedEvil> And they want to keep all focus on F9H and followon
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> probably more a case of testing their TPS kit
[22:27] <dbrooke> spacex site says "liftoff at approximately 8:34pm PT" and PT is UTC-8 so more like 4:34AM ?
[22:29] <Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSF81yjVbJE
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> dbrooke: ET
[22:30] <SpeedEvil> http://www.spacex.com/news/2015/12/11/orbcomm-2-mission-update
[22:31] <AndyEsser> how on earth does that second stage control pitch/roll etc when in the atmosphere on descent?
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> First stage
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> Two ways.
[22:31] <SpeedEvil> Three ways.
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> It's base-heavy, so it comes down base-first naturally.
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> It has grid-fins at the top of the first stage which allow the stage to be pivioted, and get 'lift' due to descending at an angle.
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> It has vectorable engine at the bottom for the last 20-30s
[22:33] <AndyEsser> Yea, I just thought vectoring at the bottom like that with something so long would just cause it to spin
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> the fins kill the spin
[22:33] <AndyEsser> also, first stage? hmm, it shows it detaching from stage 1 and then doing a retro burn - unless I misinterpreted the video?
[22:33] <AndyEsser> gotcha - I hadn't seen the fins
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> There is a very old video that shows both stages reusable.
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> This is not reality.
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> http://www.spacex.com/falcon9 - the grid fins are shown just under the interstage
[22:34] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[22:37] <dbrooke> SpeedEvil: that page changed! I did a cut and paste from it, still have it open - "The launch webcast is targeted to begin atapproximately 5:10pm PT with liftoff at approximately 8:34pm PT."
[22:37] <dbrooke> anyway ET is better
[22:37] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:37] <AndyEsser> no SRBs for Falcon?
[22:37] Action: AndyEsser is waaayy behind on SpaceX news
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> No SRBs.
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> Falcon heavy uses three nearly identical first stages strapped together
[22:39] <SpeedEvil> (or will use...
[22:39] <AndyEsser> Yep, just watched their anims
[22:40] <AndyEsser> thrust-assist landing of a rocket.... that's something I want to watch :)
[22:40] <Vaizki> how does it differ from the previous landings?
[22:40] <Vaizki> or attempted landings...
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> Vaizki: Land versus barge
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> And hopefully less explosions
[22:42] <AndyEsser> barge?
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> It has previously been attempting to land on a 50000 ton barge
[22:42] <AndyEsser> ah
[22:44] <Hiena> Ugh..Oh...Random firing neurons gave me an idea. The thrust proportional with the exhaust pressure and the exhaust diameter. So if i make an toroidal aerospike engine with a very large diameter, i'll need only a small chamber pessure to achive high thrust at low speed. If the engine ring big enough it will house nicely the first stage fuel and oxidiser tank. Due the structure of the aerospike engine, the center section will act as heat
[22:44] <Hiena> shield at reentry. Almost too good, not to build one. If my significant other hears that, she will cut not only my budget, but my manly parts. That means, i'll have to cut my lunch money for 90 days again...
[22:45] <AndyEsser> heh
[22:47] <AndyEsser> night all
[22:47] <Vaizki> nites
[22:48] <Vaizki> SpeedEvil: yea I was referring to the landing method.. I know land is a less dynamic platform to stabilize on :)
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> Basically it doesn't.
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> Other than bugfixes in the software.
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> And hardware.
[22:49] <Vaizki> right, it was close last time
[22:50] <Hiena> Hopes, they learned not to use open hydraulics system, or change it to pneumatic one...
[22:50] <Vaizki> I still don't understand why they don't make a landing cushion or something for it and topple it on purpose into it
[22:51] <Vaizki> seems like a silly sci-fi movie copycat thing to land it on it's tail :)
[22:51] <Hiena> You can't simply cushion a friggin 30 meter rocket with a tank on it.
[22:52] <Vaizki> ok well the current method didn't work either:D
[22:52] <SpeedEvil> It worked for 99.999% of the distance and 99.99% of the speed
[22:52] <Vaizki> yes yes.. and I hope they make it on land
[22:55] <Vaizki> sheesh.. +11 degrees warm.. warmest december day in recorded history here in Finland
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Fife/hour_by_hour.html
[22:55] <Hiena> Look. It's just member waving. Nothing more than a techdemo for they controls.
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> Quite warm here
[22:57] <Hiena> For a reuseable system need a fault tolerant method with several backup solution.
[22:58] <Vaizki> why? if they can recover half the rockets this way, it's still a major saving
[22:59] <Hiena> Sure, but how much is the weather tolerance of the vertical rocket landing?
[22:59] <Vaizki> no idea, just saying that a) this is better than nothing b) making it perfect might cost more than just making more not-so-perfect rockets
[22:59] <Hiena> Don't forget not enough to land it, hafta keep it upward after landing.
[23:01] <Vaizki> yes they should land it into a cushioned silo filled with marshmellows
[23:01] <Vaizki> think of the lovely smell
[23:03] <Hiena> I likes the idea, and if they switch to alcohol/LOX it will be edible after the landing. Been there, tried that.
[23:04] <Hiena> Hindsight: If you ever builds a rocket engine, you WILL feel the urge to cook something on it.
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[23:09] <SpeedEvil> If they have it properly debugged for landing, they can have the barge off 400km or so at sea, as well as the pad near the landing site
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> this helps somewhat with weather issues
[23:41] <Laurenceb_> well landing out to sea needs lots less delta v
[23:58] <RocketBoy> mmmm bacon, rockets, what can go wrong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4wTFuaV8VQ
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[00:00] --- Mon Dec 21 2015