highaltitude.log.20151217

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[01:54] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-57 after 036 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-57
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[07:53] <IN3AQK> At 0600z there was a Ballon named K2734129, 30 miles north of my position Bolzano northern Italy visible on www.aprs.fi, frequency indicated 402.500, someone know who is?
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[07:54] <lz1dev> weather sonder probably?
[07:54] <IN3AQK> I do not know, now not visibile
[07:54] <lz1dev> .aprs info K2734129
[07:54] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: No matches found
[07:55] <lz1dev> .whereis K2734129
[07:55] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: I haven't got a clue
[07:55] <lz1dev> strange
[07:55] <IN3AQK> heading south, but on my zone there are to low aprs digipeater!!
[07:56] <lz1dev> oh... object format, thats why it doesnt show up
[07:56] <IN3AQK> is visible on aprs.fi if you set "show last 3 hours or more"
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[07:56] <lz1dev> yep
[07:57] <IN3AQK> unfortunately I'm not able to track it, I'm at work in from of a computer programming in python PHP
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[07:57] <lz1dev> don't program in both at the same time :>
[07:58] <IN3AQK> hhhhaahhha
[07:59] <IN3AQK> sometimes I program in both language at the same time.... IPTV systems, two IDE open in the same moment
[07:59] <Vaizki> umm it's not on an aprs digipeater if it's 402.500?
[08:02] <IN3AQK> I don't know probably it have a dual tx
[08:02] <IN3AQK> raw packet is
[08:02] <IN3AQK> OE5DXL-11>APLWS2,qAU,OE3MUC-15:;K2813175 *070541h4813.99N/01341.21EO167/064/A=034492!w8X!Clb=-4.6m/s p=248.6hPa t=-58.2C h=18% 402.70MHz
[08:03] <IN3AQK> APLWS2
[08:03] <Vaizki> hmmh could be yes. but 402MHz is weather service use, right?
[08:04] <Vaizki> at least here I think 400-403MHz is meteorological band
[08:04] <Vaizki> here = Finland, sorry :)
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[08:05] <IN3AQK> or probably the weather station receives it and resend the info on APRS
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[08:07] <Vaizki> something like that probably yes..
[08:08] <Vaizki> and talking of programming.. https://v1.std3.ru/71/b7/1450110575-71b77b2bd06f431f2bd0b4abb983738f.gif
[08:09] <IN3AQK> hahahah
[08:10] <IN3AQK> I must share it to my fellows
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[08:18] <fsphil> C in that should be assembly :)
[08:19] <IN3AQK> By by all and 73 now I've to develop
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[09:07] <AndyEsser> Ah yes I saw that image the other day
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[09:19] <mactunes> hi all, i have a question regarding the PITS board and hope i am in the right place for this... i just received mine 2 weeks ago and was able to try it yesterday for the first time, but neither the Warn nor the Ok LEDs come on.
[09:20] <mactunes> could it be that this is due to me powering the board via USB and not using the battery connector?
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[09:29] <Chimpusmaximus> Upa or daveake might be around at some point and be able to help. I have a PITS but can't remember status
[09:31] <Chimpusmaximus> Can't think why USB would not be enough
[09:32] <mactunes> that's what I thouhgt, also the power adaptor has enough amps so this shouldn't be related to low power. thanks though!
[09:33] <Chimpusmaximus> it has come up before i'm sure
[09:33] <Chimpusmaximus> just trying to look over old Irc logs
[09:35] <Chimpusmaximus> Nothing of help. Assume you build image as per http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/index.php?id=sd-card-image-from-scratch
[09:35] <fsphil> the older models worked fine that way, but the newer ones have a fancier power supply. might not like being powered over usb
[09:35] <fsphil> but I haven't tried
[09:36] <AndyEsser> mactunes: do you have something like a 1000mA or 1500mA mobile phone charger you could use to test it's not a lack of power from the PC?
[09:36] <fsphil> before doing anything else though, check you've got it plugged in the right way around
[09:36] <AndyEsser> ^
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[09:39] <mactunes> fsphil: i'm running this via a 2.1a usb adaptor not via the pc
[09:40] <fsphil> the pits board I mean. make sure you've it plugged into the Pi correctly
[09:40] <fsphil> UpuWork will know if it can be powered via usb
[09:41] <mactunes> it should be plugged in correctly, i did it as in the http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/index.php?id=physical-assembly guide
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[09:42] <fsphil> ah, good. some have previously got it wrong
[09:43] <mactunes> i found something in the logs (http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs_highlighted/highaltitude.log.20150618.html), i'll check, thanks a lot though!
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[10:38] <realborg> eroomde, could a edf fan benefit from a nozzle?
[10:42] <eroomde> i don't think so
[10:42] <eroomde> nozzles are really about efficiently turning high pressure into high velocity
[10:43] <eroomde> whereas the prop in the edf does the acclerating itself
[10:47] <eroomde> i'm sorry i said 'nozzles are about' like some radio interviewee describing their pet campaign
[10:47] <eroomde> not v scientific
[10:47] <eroomde> but i'm hung over, but you get what i mean i hope
[10:48] <AndyEsser> eroomde: we won't judge you
[10:50] <realborg> eroomde, appeciated :)
[10:51] <realborg> i was just wondering if a edf fan would generate enough pressure difference to benefit from a nozzle
[10:53] <nick_> The run up to christmas is tough work...
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[10:54] <eroomde> it is
[10:55] <eroomde> i feel like a wreck
[10:55] <eroomde> and i have to host this evening
[10:55] <eroomde> i am quite looking fwd to it all being over
[10:55] <AndyEsser> I'm looking forward to Boxing Day
[10:55] <AndyEsser> finally, all the boring family commitments will be over
[10:55] <AndyEsser> and I'll have a week of doing nothing
[10:55] <gonzo_> you sounded like yoiu were in high spirits (literally) whe you posted this morn
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[10:58] <gonzo_> my xmas day is pretty much just a long lie in. the actual celebrations are the next day with the family
[10:58] <gonzo_> I was getting funny looks in tesco yesterday when I was talking to my daughter about getting a prepacked xmas dinner for one, and went on to suggest getting a family box of paracetamol and a bottle of scotch
[10:58] <gonzo_> good product grouping
[10:58] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: couple years ago, I had xmas day on my own
[10:58] <AndyEsser> it was glorious
[10:59] <gonzo_> it's a non event for us
[10:59] <fsphil> chocolate and doctor who
[10:59] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: I'd love for it to be a non-event
[10:59] <fsphil> that's christmas day for me :)
[10:59] <AndyEsser> but my brother and his wife are big into it and family and yada yada
[10:59] <gonzo_> but mum does the whole thing well, so that's our xmas
[10:59] <AndyEsser> and therefore if I don't go along or whatever, I'm shunned like some black sheep
[11:00] <AndyEsser> ah pup... meeting I didn't know about
[11:00] <AndyEsser> back later
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[11:01] <gonzo_> and new year is only marked by me wonderiung what all the noise is when the fireworks go up
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[11:02] <gonzo_> we should have a new year's eve HAB instead
[11:02] <fsphil> yikes, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35119550
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[11:05] <fsphil> not as many people about to track on new years eve
[11:08] <gonzo_> yep, I did think about that. This hobby is a bit younger than most
[11:08] <fsphil> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=6eb4e82f81c865b287182bc66411ce1cb9008a27
[11:08] <fsphil> I may do a christmas pico
[11:09] <gonzo_> I wonder if I can contact ee and say, I didn't get a free power bar. Would like one. But to save the shipping, could they just give me the £20 bounty anyway
[11:09] <bradfirj> hey fsphil do you have access to a reflow oven?
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[11:09] <fsphil> bradfirj: yeah. I've a reflow controller and argos toaster oven
[11:10] <gonzo_> I had one planned last year, but it flew in the summer. And I forgot to btake the merry xmas message out of the telem
[11:10] <bradfirj> Built or bought controller?
[11:10] <bradfirj> I have the disassembled oven in the garage :p
[11:10] <fsphil> bought
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[11:10] <bradfirj> I have the relay and all the kit to make mine
[11:10] <bradfirj> Just need inspiration..
[11:11] <fsphil> it's this one: http://www.beta-estore.com/rkuk/order_product_details.html?wg=1&p=242
[11:11] <bradfirj> Oh crumbs that's quite cheap
[11:11] <bradfirj> Why you do this to me
[11:11] <fsphil> lol
[11:11] <fsphil> yours would be more worth while
[11:12] <bradfirj> Eh it was going to be a bog standard Uno
[11:12] <bradfirj> and some terminal blocks
[11:12] <bradfirj> not that worthwhile
[11:12] <fsphil> I've not opened this, there's a fair chance there's just an avr in there
[11:12] <bradfirj> EEVBlog did a review, not sure if he opened it
[11:13] <bradfirj> Who do you use for boards+stencils then?
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[11:14] <fsphil> I've not used a stencil yet, just hand blobbed it. only boards I've cooked so far came from dirtypcbs.com
[11:15] <fsphil> a stencil is probably worth it though
[11:15] <bradfirj> Right
[11:15] <fsphil> I always use the wrong pressure and put too much paste on
[11:15] <bradfirj> Who was the other guy people in here use, there's OSH, then the guy whose order form is basically a Google Doc + "email me"
[11:15] <fsphil> oh, that'll be hackvana
[11:15] <bradfirj> that's the one
[11:15] <bradfirj> Thanks for the googlewords
[11:17] <bradfirj> hackvana will do you stainless steel stencils for $30 on top of your order
[11:17] <bradfirj> which is fantastic for a steel stencil
[11:19] <fsphil> definitly worth it if there's more than just a few parts
[11:20] <bradfirj> I wanted to try out the Si4060s, pretty much the whole reason I'm considering reflow
[11:20] <eroomde> total stencil love here
[11:21] <bradfirj> I can and do drag solder the 0.5mm QFPs no problem (loads'a'flux fixes everything) but QFNs are hell
[11:21] <adamgreig> bradfirj: dirtypcb steel stencil even better and very good
[11:21] <bradfirj> Ty for the reccomend
[11:21] <adamgreig> Even cheaper *
[11:22] <adamgreig> I recommend dirty, can't really beat the price for small qty and options all really nice
[11:22] <adamgreig> Check out their new site (on dangerous prototypes),even better prices and you can do things like any rgb solder mask colour you want
[11:23] <adamgreig> +1 for using stencils. I laser cut my own from mylar for most things and it works very well. Not so easy to clean and reuse as steel but very cheap for small qty
[11:25] <fsphil> do you use something to help line up the board and stencil, or just do it by eye and stick it down?
[11:25] <bradfirj> The evil people on ##stm32 put me onto Xilinx's free tools the other day
[11:25] <fsphil> I think UpuWork had a thing for aligning then with posts
[11:25] <bradfirj> Christmas bonus may be buying dev boards D:
[11:25] <adamgreig> The thing with posts is very nice but I just do it by eye atm
[11:25] <eroomde> bradfirj: i'm not sure they were doing you a favour :p
[11:25] <fsphil> lol
[11:25] <adamgreig> I did make a jig at one point which worked well
[11:26] <eroomde> i used to make jigs with scrap fr4
[11:26] <fsphil> I tried to buy a xilinx dev board a fair few years ago, and they wouldn't sell me one due to export restrictions :/
[11:26] <adamgreig> But have found I can do the pitch I use and line it up by eye
[11:26] <eroomde> now i have a little magnetic jig thing that beta layout sell
[11:26] <adamgreig> Yea that magnetic one looks very nice
[11:26] <fsphil> ooh
[11:26] <bradfirj> fsphil: You know Xilinx bought one of their FPGA lines from Nortel Belfast right?
[11:26] <fsphil> didn't!
[11:26] <bradfirj> yarp
[11:26] <bradfirj> Not sure what it's branded as now
[11:27] <bradfirj> Explains why they suck then heh
[11:27] <bradfirj> >.>
[11:27] <fsphil> hah
[11:28] <bradfirj> I think it was network processors
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[11:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
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[12:26] <Vaizki> a bit OT noobness.. how/why would an oscilloscope have 2GS/s but only 40MHz bandwidth? what is limiting the bw in this case? :)
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[12:27] <Vaizki> is the 40MHz a limitation of the front-end analog part even though there's a beefy digital chain behind it?
[12:27] <mattbrejza> that seems a bit exteme
[12:27] <mattbrejza> the difference between BW and sample rate
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[12:27] <Vaizki> yes, which is why I ask.. normally I've seen like 200MHz scope has 1GS/s
[12:27] <mattbrejza> they just limit the analgoue front end (perhaps in software) then sell it cheaper
[12:28] <Vaizki> well that's the widest bw scope in the series..
[12:28] <mattbrejza> huh odd, 40MHz isnt much
[12:28] <Vaizki> yea it's a small handheld IP54
[12:28] <mattbrejza> hmm ,is that real time sampling or 'equivlent sampling'
[12:28] <mattbrejza> or whatever its called
[12:29] <eroomde> if it was the latter then why the higher sample rate than the bandwidth
[12:29] <eroomde> i agree it's a high ratio
[12:29] <eroomde> is it multiplexed across multiple channels?
[12:29] <Vaizki> it's one of these... http://www.chauvin-arnoux.com/en/produit/ox-5042-handscope.html
[12:30] <gonzo_> two chans and two samples per chan is going to be a mas of 250MHz
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[12:30] <Vaizki> maybe they need it for the 31-order harmonics analysis?
[12:30] <mattbrejza> not sure, but my 500MSPS scope has a 25GSPS equivilent sampling mode, which i havnt ever used or see the point in
[12:31] <mattbrejza> but its in the spec sheet
[12:31] <eroomde> yeah so the isolation is probably what's limiting the bw
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[12:31] <Vaizki> ah ok.. that makes sense
[12:32] <eroomde> that's a reasonably hard thing to do well at high bw
[12:32] <eroomde> the rest is probably the same back end as a conventional handhelp scope
[12:32] <mattbrejza> ah look at the spec sheet
[12:32] <mattbrejza> 50MSPS in real time
[12:32] <mattbrejza> 2GSPS in ETS
[12:33] <Vaizki> what is ETS?
[12:33] <mattbrejza> equivilent time sampling i guess
[12:33] <Vaizki> ok.. but 50MSPS is not good enough for real 40MHz..
[12:34] <mattbrejza> indeed
[12:34] <mattbrejza> there are two models, 20MHz and 40MHz
[12:34] <mattbrejza> perhaps 50MSPS is for the 20MHz one, and the datasheet typoed them both having the same sample rate
[12:36] <mattbrejza> also in ETS mode having a 40MHz signal into that ADC might be 'ok'
[12:38] <Vaizki> it is french kit of course so there might be irreconcilable differences in what a 'spec' means .. :)
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[12:38] <eroomde> Vaizki: that does look a bit specilised towards high power systems analysis
[12:39] <eroomde> i probably would look elsewhere if i just wanted a handhelp scope
[12:40] <Vaizki> yea thing is I could get this very very cheap..
[12:40] <Vaizki> the list price is ludicrous :)
[12:41] <Vaizki> £1200 without the USB option
[12:42] <eroomde> that's not actually too bad for a handheld scope :)
[12:42] <mattbrejza> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/DSO-Quad-Aluminium-Alloy-Silver-p-1033.html?cPath=63_65
[12:42] <mattbrejza> dunno what you wanted it for
[12:42] <Vaizki> I would pay ~ £100 with USB for that frenchie ;)
[12:43] <Vaizki> I'm sure it'll bea those repurposed MP3 players like the DSO Quad.. :)
[12:43] <Vaizki> beat
[12:44] <mattbrejza> hmm it doesnt actually tell you the analgoue BW for that thing
[12:44] <Vaizki> wth.. is that DSO Quad with a metal case?
[12:44] <Vaizki> Note: Due to the metal conductive shell of DSO Quad, its operating voltage should be controlled under 60V during working in case of any damage to the Quad itself or human.
[12:45] <Vaizki> indeed...
[12:45] <mattbrejza> i wouldnt suggest you do that with the plastic case one wiether
[12:45] <mattbrejza> *either
[12:45] <Vaizki> I've never owned one of those cheapies
[12:46] <Vaizki> people who I trust tell me they're crap
[12:46] <Vaizki> unless all you do is want to look at sine waves from your hifi
[12:47] <mattbrejza> depends what you want ti for...
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[12:58] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: fsphil
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fuji-HS30EXR-Fujifilm-Finepix-Bridge-Digital-Camera-16MP-30x-Optical-Zoom-/181958368216?hash=item2a5d905bd8:g:iGYAAOSw8-tWaqtv
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> 320fps 30* zoom camera, 80 quid
[12:59] <SpeedEvil> even with warranty
[13:00] <SpeedEvil> ~680g though, so a bit heavy for a balloon.
[13:01] <fsphil> could still be fun for non-balloon stuff
[13:02] <SpeedEvil> yeah
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[13:03] <SpeedEvil> I got it as my best camera is a ~4MP one with a broken display, and ...
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[13:15] <AndyEsser> Any recommendations for PCB fab suppliers (preferably with soldering/mounting included)?
[13:15] <AndyEsser> in the UK
[13:16] <craag> I've used http://www.printsys.co.uk/
[13:16] <UpuWork> me too
[13:16] <craag> They can also subcontract the pcb fab
[13:17] <eroomde> be aware that fab is very, very, very much not the norm for hobby pcb stuff
[13:17] <AndyEsser> Cheers - good price?
[13:17] <AndyEsser> eroomde: better to send veroboard/breadboard? :P
[13:17] <craag> Oh yeah - hobby stuff use dirtypcbs
[13:18] <craag> (for fab)
[13:18] <eroomde> you're suddendly talking integer mu;tiples of cost increase
[13:18] <eroomde> and time
[13:18] <eroomde> AndyEsser: what? no
[13:18] <Vaizki> what.. no.. just order pcbs from china and solder yourself :O
[13:18] <AndyEsser> :)
[13:18] <eroomde> you get the pcb made
[13:18] <eroomde> you solder it yourself
[13:18] <eroomde> that's the norm
[13:18] <AndyEsser> I really don't fancy SMT soldering myself
[13:18] <eroomde> grow a pair
[13:18] <eroomde> and shut up
[13:18] <UpuWork> haha
[13:18] <AndyEsser> o0o0o
[13:18] <eroomde> just solder it
[13:18] <UpuWork> I was just typing that
[13:18] <Vaizki> well you get 10 boards for the price of one :D
[13:18] <AndyEsser> hungover eroomde is mean
[13:18] <UpuWork> its easier than through hole
[13:18] <Vaizki> no he's just to the point :)
[13:18] <craag> unless you're after 50+, getting them assembled is going to be annoyingly costly
[13:18] <AndyEsser> UpuWork: really?
[13:19] <AndyEsser> I'm blind as a bat, and don't have the best hand-eye coordination
[13:20] <craag> Best bet might be to buy someone a few beers to do it then
[13:20] <AndyEsser> heh
[13:20] <craag> it'll be a lot cheaper than getting it done professionally for low q
[13:20] <AndyEsser> hmm, well I'll have to give it a go obviously
[13:20] <eroomde> no let's just nip this in the bud
[13:20] <eroomde> it's fine
[13:20] <eroomde> everyone does it
[13:20] <eroomde> you are not a special snowflake
[13:20] <Vaizki> :D
[13:20] <AndyEsser> eroomde: "everyone does it" is a terrible justification for basically everything
[13:21] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I _AM_ special snowflake :(
[13:21] <AndyEsser> my mum told me
[13:21] <Vaizki> I prefer to shit diamonds and pay people with them for soldering
[13:21] <eroomde> everyone does it = you are capable of it too
[13:21] <Vaizki> cue: Eye of the Tiger
[13:21] <AndyEsser> hehe
[13:21] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: with a dodgy montage video as well ;)
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[13:21] <craag> anyway - http://dirtypcbs.com/ for pcbs
[13:23] <AndyEsser> craag: ta
[13:23] <craag> you'll get back a pack like https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CPoBVF6WsAAtI3U.jpg:large
[13:23] <Vaizki> $14 for 10x 5x5cm boards including shipping :O
[13:23] <craag> (20x 5x5cm)
[13:24] <Vaizki> those really are cheap
[13:24] <AndyEsser> nice
[13:24] <craag> it's chinese shipping
[13:24] <eroomde> i'll show you how to solder smd if you want AndyEsser
[13:24] <craag> so the whole thing can take several weeks
[13:24] <Vaizki> craag, ukhasnet nodes?
[13:24] <AndyEsser> craag: yea I was looking at the shipping options
[13:24] <craag> (2-3 nominally)
[13:24] <AndyEsser> eroomde: heh
[13:25] <AndyEsser> you don't have the patience for that
[13:25] <craag> Vaizki: aye
[13:25] <eroomde> if you don't mind spending a bit more, i use pcb-pool for everything
[13:25] <eroomde> much quicker
[13:25] <AndyEsser> I don't mind spending more if it's worth it (ie reduced shipping) or something
[13:25] <AndyEsser> as long as it's not extortionate
[13:25] <Vaizki> ok wtf pcb-pool front page :O
[13:25] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: indeed
[13:25] <eroomde> yeah i did mention that to them
[13:26] <eroomde> http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppuk/index.html
[13:26] <AndyEsser> why do all these companies have terrible websites
[13:26] <eroomde> better
[13:26] <Vaizki> did you use the phrase "looks like a cheap scifi novel from the 90's"
[13:26] <eroomde> https://www.pcb-pool.com/ppuk/order_productconfiguration_js.html
[13:26] <eroomde> that's the bit you want
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[13:27] <AndyEsser> yea, that's what I'm on atm
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[13:29] <Vaizki> eroomde, I got a quote of 109.16 euros for 5 boards of 5x5cm... so definitely a step up in price from chinese shops
[13:30] <eroomde> yes
[13:30] <eroomde> but a step up in quality, service, time etc
[13:30] <AndyEsser> that's a rather hefty increase
[13:30] <eroomde> and free stainless lasercut stencil
[13:31] <eroomde> which is use a lot
[13:31] <Vaizki> well if you have SMT on the board I assume it makes life so much easier to stencil solderpaste and cook it?
[13:32] <eroomde> yes
[13:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HK1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HK1
[13:35] <eroomde> that said the advantages i listed are more advantageous to work
[13:36] <eroomde> which values turnaround time and customer service and so on more than i would as a hobbyist
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[13:39] <Vaizki> those dirtypcbs are cheaper than paper business cards made in Finland...
[13:39] <Vaizki> maybe I should order PCB businesscards on 1mm fr4
[13:40] <Vaizki> hmm DHL from dirty is +20 USD.. not bad
[13:41] <Vaizki> but also means it will get stuck in customs
[13:44] <Vostok> better than oshpark?
[13:45] <EdwArduino> Say I had a 28 foot parachute and a 30 ft diameter latex balloon inflated to 16-17 feet in diameter inside my parachute. Do you think the latex balloon would be ok rubbing on the cotton canopy?
[13:45] <EdwArduino> I feel like I'll just have to try this one.
[13:46] <eroomde> i doubt it
[13:46] <eroomde> it'd certainly ascend for a bit
[13:46] <russss> I just did a dirtypcbs order with DHL and it didn't get caught by customs
[13:47] <eroomde> but i suspect it would cause a balloon failure at a substantially lower diameter than the balloon's nominal burst diameter
[13:47] <russss> I have a suspicion they list the customs value at $11 regardless of the cost of the order.
[13:49] <EdwArduino> hmmmm
[13:49] <EdwArduino> also hmmm, might have to try dirty pcbs.
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[15:07] <AndyEsser> hmm, might butcher an old PC PSU tonight as a bench PSU
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[15:36] <Vaizki> AndyEsser, not a bad idea but remember they might not be stable with the kind of current draw your projects need
[15:36] <Vaizki> so you might need a sink (=resistor) to draw a bit at all times
[15:38] <AndyEsser> ah that's a fair point, suspect they're used to a larger load
[15:39] <fsphil> this is where a proper bench psu comes in handy
[15:40] <AndyEsser> fsphil: yes, but I'm just making do for the interim
[15:40] <AndyEsser> :P
[15:40] <Vaizki> I think the performance on a very low load is very psu-dependent
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[15:40] <Vaizki> so just test it
[15:41] <adamgreig> or just plug it into a big resistor on a heatsink and use it to help heat the house at the same time
[15:41] <adamgreig> perhaps just tap off the 12V and 5V lines on your computer..
[15:41] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: hmm... my PC is on 24/7... :P
[15:41] Action: AndyEsser runs a molex connector into the back of the case
[15:41] <fsphil> perfect :)
[15:42] <mattbrejza> just dont short it, the hdd might not be happy
[15:42] <AndyEsser> indeed
[15:42] <AndyEsser> :P
[15:42] <fsphil> is this just for 5v?
[15:42] <Vaizki> I bought an Agilent 6332B.. another too cheap to resist thing :(
[15:42] <AndyEsser> fsphil: 3.3, 5 and 12 would be good :)
[15:42] <fsphil> ah
[15:42] <fsphil> was going to suggest USB for 5v
[15:42] <adamgreig> i want an agilent 6332b :(
[15:42] <eroomde> i have 2
[15:42] Action: eroomde looks smug
[15:42] <mattbrejza> you only get 3.3V to the motherboard though?
[15:42] <Vaizki> mainly because 6332B can also sink current
[15:42] <adamgreig> haven't spotted any for <£300 so far
[15:42] <fsphil> lol
[15:42] <eroomde> yeah there was a golden age of cheapo
[15:43] <eroomde> and i think everyone has realised they're worth way more now
[15:43] <AndyEsser> the thought of a 19" rackmountable PSU tickles me :)
[15:43] <eroomde> not all of them come with the rack mount ears
[15:43] <fsphil> I managed to get one of those
[15:43] <Vaizki> adamgreig, hmm I paid 150 euros..
[15:43] <fsphil> very loud :) but works really well
[15:43] <eroomde> i paid £200 for two
[15:43] <AndyEsser> eroomde: wings... not ears
[15:43] <adamgreig> git :P
[15:43] <AndyEsser> eroomde: wow
[15:43] <AndyEsser> !ping
[15:43] <SpacenearUS> 03AndyEsser: No contact from 03
[15:43] <AndyEsser> err...
[15:43] <AndyEsser> wrong channelbot
[15:43] <AndyEsser> heh
[15:43] <Vaizki> I would have bought 2 if they were available
[15:43] <eroomde> almo my hameg psu is really nice
[15:43] <eroomde> also*
[15:44] <eroomde> i'd just like a ~300V adjustable one now
[15:44] <fsphil> current sink feature is nice. also has a serial port but I've not used that yet
[15:44] <eroomde> for valves and the like
[15:44] <AndyEsser> finally heard back from my client today... I _might_ be able order a decent bench PSU over xmas if he pulls his finger out :)
[15:44] <Vaizki> 6332A are still cheap I guess
[15:45] <Vaizki> but the accuracy is not comparable to B and there is no serial port
[15:45] <AndyEsser> but the fact my workshop will have a 19" case built in... a rack mountable one really would help save space :)
[15:45] <fsphil> 6632B, sorry. not 6332
[15:45] <Ian_> I have a friend, fixes engines. He has clients and they often will put their own Christmas before paying up on time . . .
[15:46] <Vaizki> 6632 are single output high precision power supplies
[15:46] <AndyEsser> Ian_: yep... I'm aware of this
[15:46] <AndyEsser> 6632B looks like something out of the 80's :P
[15:46] <Ian_> Fun being in business eh!
[15:46] <Vaizki> if you need multiple voltages and higher amps but are not really worried about ultimate accuracy etc, there are probably better options
[15:47] <eroomde> a lot of the good test equipment is from the 80s
[15:47] <fsphil> the display is quite neat
[15:47] Action: AndyEsser is from the 80's
[15:47] <AndyEsser> :P
[15:47] <eroomde> definitely don't be too distracted by modern chinese stuff with lots of flashing LEDs
[15:47] <eroomde> a lot of it is junk
[15:47] <Vaizki> built to a price, not to a spec
[15:47] <eroomde> just get whatever generation of X you can afford from HP or other good names
[15:48] <eroomde> HP became agilent - but same company
[15:48] <adamgreig> and then keysight >_>
[15:48] <eroomde> they are now keysight - but i doubt you'll be buying new so no need to know that
[15:48] <AndyEsser> yea, noticed it's keysight when being doing googling
[15:48] <Ian_> Vaizki, just how many scopes and whizzo boxes do you have? I imagine this big room full of test equipment stacked in a large cube.
[15:49] <Vaizki> too many but even more space!
[15:49] <Vaizki> well actually I've let go of a couple of scopes already
[15:49] <AndyEsser> :O
[15:49] <Vaizki> I only have 2 scopes now.. Rigol 1054Z and a 200MHz GW Instek
[15:50] <eroomde> i have 3 scopes
[15:50] <eroomde> tek 465 (love)
[15:50] <eroomde> and newer tek
[15:50] <eroomde> also love
[15:50] <eroomde> and a hameg
[15:51] <eroomde> old-school 20mhz school type one
[15:51] <eroomde> as a sort of nerd lair, this is pretty good https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7A_NqNyvaBM/maxresdefault.jpg
[15:51] <Vaizki> the gw instek stuff seems ok for a cheapie asian job
[15:51] <AndyEsser> that's Vaizki place :P
[15:51] <Vaizki> hehe
[15:52] <Vaizki> nope..
[15:52] <AndyEsser> why is everything turned on!!
[15:52] <Vaizki> because the owner is also
[15:52] <fsphil> you turn things off?
[15:52] <AndyEsser> hehe
[15:52] <Vaizki> ah nixie tubes..
[15:52] <eroomde> keep it on
[15:53] <eroomde> otherwise you have to wait 30+mins for everything to get to calibrated temp
[15:53] <Vaizki> I guess in the UK you should be able to find cheap 2nd hand TTI PSUs alsio
[15:54] <eroomde> there are a few about
[15:54] <eroomde> i think some were sold under the farnel brand name for a while
[15:54] <eroomde> a few decades ago
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[15:56] <nick_> I noticed something weird today in the voltage rating of some ribbon cables.
[15:57] <nick_> Apparently they are rated to 300 V in the US, 150 V in Canada, <50 V in the EU.
[15:57] <nick_> Is there some logic behind this that I'm missing, or are we just more cautious in the EU?
[15:58] <adamgreig> 50 european volts is about the same as 300 american volts so that sounds about right
[15:58] <eroomde> it might be (i'm speculating) to comply with the low voltage directive
[15:58] <Vaizki> they want to be treated under low voltage directives
[15:58] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: :)
[15:58] <fsphil> metric or imperial volts?
[15:58] <Vaizki> metrical and imperic, it's 'murica!
[15:58] <nick_> I want to use them at ~65 V...
[15:59] <eroomde> they'll be fine
[15:59] <AndyEsser> Try It And See (TM)
[15:59] <AndyEsser> What's The Worst That Could Happen (TM)
[15:59] <eroomde> if you were self-certifying a product you'd have an issue
[15:59] <eroomde> but for an experiment, who t-f cares
[15:59] <nick_> Maybe EU people just have a higher probability of chewing on brightly coloured cables?
[16:00] <eroomde> that must explain the 3phase cable colour harmonisation
[16:00] <Vaizki> no, it's just so they don't have to jump through hoops
[16:00] <Vaizki> spec it as low voltage and it's pretty relaxed
[16:00] <eroomde> went from red yellow blue t brown black grey
[16:00] <eroomde> to*
[16:01] <eroomde> and blue became neautral
[16:01] <eroomde> which catches people
[16:01] <fsphil> huh, spark gap in helium is much longer than air for same voltage.
[16:01] <fsphil> </random>
[16:02] <mattbrejza> and pressure?
[16:02] <nick_> Is it because 2 is a magic number in chemsitry?
[16:02] <fsphil> this page specifies "standard pressure (760 mmHg) and room temperature (72 °F, 22.2 °C)"
[16:03] <fsphil> http://www.cirris.com/learning-center/calculators/50-high-voltage-arc-gap-calculator
[16:03] <fsphil> 0.03mm for 400V DC in air, 0.51mm in helium
[16:04] <nick_> The ionisation energy of helium is about twice that of Oxygen.
[16:04] <fsphil> 5cm needs about 3000V
[16:04] <fsphil> now, how does one generate 3000v ... :)
[16:04] <nick_> Since the electrons are all happily sitting coupled up in a full orbital, why would they want to leave?
[16:04] <mattbrejza> at what current?
[16:05] <fsphil> well, no current until it arcs I imagine?
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[16:09] <nick_> An x ray source has >3V PD I think.
[16:10] <nick_> >3kV even
[16:11] <AndyEsser> http://imgur.com/Hn4Pb6e <- Quick Question: anyone know the correct term (or googleable phrase) for that thermal tape (the yellow stuff)?
[16:12] <adamgreig> kapton tape?
[16:12] <fsphil> kapton
[16:12] <AndyEsser> that's it!
[16:12] <AndyEsser> I thought he said captain tape :P
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[16:13] <mattbrejza> fsphil: easiest way is probably a ladder of diodes and caps attached to the mains
[16:13] <mattbrejza> easily get 3kV
[16:14] <fsphil> would need about 12 stages wouldn't it?
[16:14] <fsphil> that's not too bad
[16:14] <mattbrejza> yea
[16:15] <mattbrejza> or a microwave oven transformer
[16:15] <fsphil> I'm too chicken to play about with the mains
[16:15] <adamgreig> mains is fun :D
[16:15] <mattbrejza> or buy a neon sign transformer
[16:15] <adamgreig> once you electrocute yourself the first couple of times you get less worked up about it
[16:15] <mattbrejza> at least thats (potentially?) current limited
[16:15] <adamgreig> i hear if you get an rcd and an isolation transformer too you're pretty well set
[16:15] <Hiena> Ugh... Guys, don't get me wrong, but mains to HV not a good idea. If you ever fried half house electronics and few relatives you will get it.
[16:16] <fsphil> I've had a mains shock once, yeah it's no fun
[16:18] <Ian_> Once? Hmmm, a very careful type!
[16:19] <fsphil> hah. well I've been extra careful ever since
[16:19] <Hiena> Back my teens, the strobes was a thing. Operating a 600V 400W flash bulb from the mains seems a good idea for the first time. Few expensive flash bulbs and dosen of surge protector not really.
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[19:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hkLo1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hkLo1
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[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> hllo
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> dumpster find https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1lke6hPHKJDOWdMblE3SzZoMm8/view?pref=2&pli=1
[19:20] <Vaizki> EISA adc card?
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> looks like it, yea
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> from the socket on the MB as well
[19:21] <Vaizki> Probaly not worth the trouble...
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> but a nice souvenir :)
[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> also, what's wrong with this picture? https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1lke6hPHKJDVWoyY1J6X1c4SFk/view
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[19:29] <fsphil> it's a perfectly valid JPEG file ;)
[19:29] <fsphil> you use the wrong footprint?
[19:30] <mattbrejza> oh whoops
[19:30] <Vaizki> It's ft232rl for Long version
[19:31] <fsphil> just stretch the IC out a bit, it'll be alright
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> :D
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[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> man, one run failed :(
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[19:53] <mattbrejza> guess youll have to do it the old fashioned way
[20:00] <Lunar_Lander> FTDI from the outside?
[20:01] <mattbrejza> ya
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> that was rev 1.0 btw
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> in the place of the USB connector was a simple six pin row
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> oh well http://gerblook.org/pcb/pYMzuCTySdtquKrCzujaRL#front
[20:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hkLo1_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hkLo1_chase
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> possible to rectify error?
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> but I highly doubt you can get bonding wires onto the pins
[20:18] <mattbrejza> sure that part doesnt come in soic?
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> yes :(
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[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> "The FT232R is available in Pb-free (RoHS compliant) compact 28-Lead SSOP and QFN-32 packages."
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[20:22] <mclane_> there are small soic --> dip pcbs available - maybe use one of those and some "Kupferlackdraht"
[20:23] <mclane_> http://www.watterott.com/de/SOIC-DIP-Adapter-28-Pin
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> like on elmchan
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> http://elm-chan.org/works/heco/rc/p1.jpeg
[20:25] <mclane_> uh - that is not for me ;-)
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> me neither
[20:25] <mclane_> eye probs
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:27] <mclane_> what about your launch plans?
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> almost everything is complete, still we decided to do it in early january to avoid the christmas holidays for the official part
[20:29] <fsphil> do you need that part to launch?
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[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> no
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> that on the photo
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> that is the future
[20:31] <fsphil> a brave new world
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> tim peak orbital mode HYPE
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> peake
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[20:35] <fsphil> he has reached peake altitude
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> and autodock malfunction
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> as I heard
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[20:53] <Ian_> They fell back to manual docking.
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:54] <Ian_> Which went without a hitch . . . err they got the hitch OK!
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[21:02] <AndyEsser> Lunar_Lander: are you near Osnabruck?
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> you mean due to the uni link? :)
[21:04] <AndyEsser> Yea, that's what lead me to ask :P
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:04] <AndyEsser> may or may not have lived there :)
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
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[21:24] <AndyEsser> Lunar_Lander: sadly don't remember any of it - was about 2 at the time :P
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> how long ago was that?
[21:30] <fsphil> ageof(AndyEsser) - 2
[21:30] <AndyEsser> ;)
[21:30] <AndyEsser> Lunar_Lander: would've been like 89/90
[21:31] <AndyEsser> ok, Eagle question
[21:31] <AndyEsser> it's saying "You can't do that, free version of EAGLE doesn't allow placement outside the board"
[21:31] <AndyEsser> but.. there is no board
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> by that time I was about 0.5
[21:31] <AndyEsser> Lunar_Lander: such a youngster
[21:31] <AndyEsser> ;)
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:32] <AndyEsser> so erm, yea, with Eagle, how do I set up board dimensions?
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> strange
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> isn't there like the 80x100mm area shown by a white line when you start?
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> IIRC
[21:35] <AndyEsser> nope, I just have emptiness and the 'center mark'
[21:35] <AndyEsser> :(
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[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> strange
[21:39] <AndyEsser> I broked it :(
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[21:59] <fsphil> cool, Martian cubesats: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/cubesat/missions/marco.php
[22:00] <fsphil> flyby only, not going into orbit
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[22:02] <fsphil> wonder what they plan to do with them afterwards
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[22:06] <SpeedEvil> ebay?
[22:07] <fsphil> collection only
[22:07] <fsphil> guessing they'll go into solar orbit. but they do have small thrusters
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> i do wonder why no laser
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> LASER
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[22:18] <fsphil> lasers make everything better
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> quite. But a ~laser-pointer class LASER, plus a modest scope on the bottom is quite good
[22:19] Action: SpeedEvil computes.
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[22:22] <SpeedEvil> i make a magnitude 19 star, with a 1W laser, and a very modest lens at mars distance
[22:23] <SpeedEvil> pointing is an issue
[22:24] <SpeedEvil> That is not - quite - naked eye visible with a 1m scope, but it's within shouting distance
[22:25] <fsphil> would certainly show up on a short exposure photo
[22:25] <fsphil> not much use for data though
[22:26] <SpeedEvil> the above was '10 times better divergance than my laser pointer'
[22:27] <fsphil> are there modules as good as that?
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> yes
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> a simple lens, and a standard laser diode will do it
[22:28] <SpeedEvil> standardish
[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[00:00] --- Fri Dec 18 2015