highaltitude.log.20151215

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[03:03] <EdwArduino> good night
[03:27] <EdwArduino> Does anybody know where one can find logs with location/altitude of amateur zero pressure flights?
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[08:18] <UpuWork> there is a launch today from Elsworth on 434.45 ~ 10.30
[08:18] <UpuWork> PITS
[08:20] <fab4space> hello, nice :)
[08:22] <Chimpusmaximus> cool
[08:23] <Chimpusmaximus> is that the one from the mailing list?
[08:23] <mfa298> you wait ages for a flight and then two come along at once, (I think we've got Chris' one as well today)
[08:24] <UpuWork> Chris is tommorrow isn't he ?
[08:24] <mfa298> email says 15th
[08:24] <UpuWork> oh crap yeah
[08:24] <mfa298> 434.25
[08:24] <UpuWork> fine not conflicting
[08:25] <Chimpusmaximus> any LoRa?
[08:25] <UpuWork> unlikely
[08:25] <Chimpusmaximus> have to dust of radio then
[08:26] <Chimpusmaximus> quick prediction for Elsworth looks very wet?
[08:26] <UpuWork> think they may be cutting down
[08:27] <Chimpusmaximus> would make sense with the prediction. Looking out my window is don't look very nice
[08:28] <eroomde> another launch this morning too
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[08:41] <Chimpusmaximus> eroomde: is that the mailing list one?
[08:41] <Chimpusmaximus> Having just been out with the dog, I don't envy launching in the wet
[08:54] <eroomde> no
[08:54] <Chimpusmaximus> Excellent
[08:55] <eroomde> it's from kazakhstan
[08:55] <Chimpusmaximus> i hope they got better weather
[08:56] <Chimpusmaximus> i'll catch up eventually
[08:58] <eroomde> you can track here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06sgb95
[08:58] <fsphil> poor helen sharman, everyone seems to have forgotten about her
[09:00] <eroomde> she was british
[09:00] <eroomde> not British
[09:00] <eroomde> also back then space stations did actual research
[09:01] <fsphil> pre-social media
[09:01] <eroomde> now they do fuck-all, so we have to go mad with media and outreach to try and go some way towards recouping the billions sunk into keeping it in orbit
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[09:14] <realborg> has any apollo astronaut ever said something about the espresso machine they have on the iss today?
[09:16] <fsphil> "Why back in my day..."
[09:16] <gonzo_> the apollo crews are probably too busy looking for their teeth
[09:17] <gonzo_> I know ed thinks the iss is a waste of money. But it's only a drop in the ocean. (Shame if it is taking funds off other missions though.)
[09:17] <fsphil> One day we will have an espresso machine on the moon. -- the less popular JFK speech
[09:18] <gonzo_> I did see an interesting stat about the huge apollo missions costs. During the same period as the missions, american women spent the the same amount on cosmetics
[09:21] <AndyEsser> morning all
[09:21] <Chimpusmaximus> Morning
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[09:24] <gonzo_> we will make coffee, and do the other things. Not because it is easy, but because we have been pain huge amounts by the espresso machine company
[09:24] <fsphil> playing golf from the ISS. that was totally science n' stuff
[09:27] <eroomde> gonzo_: it very much *is* taking money from other missions
[09:28] <eroomde> I'd v much like to live in happy-happy land where we put integer percents of our gdp into space research
[09:28] <AndyEsser> My feelings towards the ISS is that it should be being used as a docking point/fuel station for missions going further (back to the moon, Mars, Asteroid Belt, etc)
[09:28] <AndyEsser> eroomde: +1
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[09:29] <eroomde> i don't see really what the iss would contribute to that
[09:29] <AndyEsser> eroomde: Scientific Research in general - not more inventive ways to kill each other
[09:29] <AndyEsser> eroomde: it's already there - as opposed to launching something entirely new
[09:29] <fsphil> cheaper to launch a fuel pod ahead of time
[09:29] <eroomde> yeah
[09:30] <eroomde> that it's there doesn't reallyu help
[09:30] <eroomde> it doesn't offer you much
[09:30] <AndyEsser> fair enough
[09:30] <eroomde> like saying a brain surgeon should use a fork because there's already one left from someone's lunch in the operating theatre
[09:30] <AndyEsser> I'll admit I don't know anything about the economics of the situation - so my thoughts are purely "what I feel"
[09:30] <AndyEsser> someone had lunch in the operating theatre?!
[09:31] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I'm loving your "that's like saying x is y" statements :)
[09:31] <eroomde> i am full on-board with the idea of assembling stuff in LEO before flying on to the solar system
[09:31] <eroomde> but the iss is probably not the thing
[09:32] <Darkside_> eroomde: read Seveneves yet?
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[09:33] <eroomde> no?
[09:33] <Darkside_> mmk
[09:33] <Darkside_> well worth it
[09:33] <Darkside_> new neal stephenson
[09:33] <Darkside_> lots of space stuff
[09:33] <gonzo_> does the phisics say that launching parts/fuel and assembling in leo, is more economical in launch mass, then sending a mission up from earth in one hit?
[09:33] <Darkside_> and rockets
[09:33] <Darkside_> and assembling stuff in orbit
[09:34] <eroomde> cool
[09:34] <eroomde> iss is a bit fragile
[09:34] <gonzo_> (I'm ignoring the financial and extra complexity of assembling in orbit
[09:34] <eroomde> and delicate
[09:34] <eroomde> and low
[09:34] <eroomde> gonzo_: yes
[09:34] <eroomde> in as much as if you have something like a skylon, it's way cheaper to use it to shuttle stuff up in chunks
[09:34] <eroomde> than to build just one absurdly massive rocket
[09:34] <eroomde> imagine the size of the rocket needed to launch the iss in one hit
[09:35] <eroomde> i think an LEO layby would be a bit more soliud and robust and have lots of mounting points to attach stuff while it's assembled
[09:35] <eroomde> the sci-fi vision of all the parts floating in orbit together whilst jet-pack astronauts push them togther is sadly unscientific
[09:35] <AndyEsser> and imagine if that one rocket failed....
[09:35] <eroomde> as they all have different orbital velocities
[09:36] <eroomde> not that i'm biased but i think it'd look more like this: http://www.bisbos.com/images_rel/obs_2_800.jpg
[09:36] <gonzo_> I'm aware that there is a point where the curves cross for launch mass and payload mass, and it is a ver long way along the X axis. But never seen comparisons between single and multiple launches
[09:37] <AndyEsser> eroomde: is that upper bit pressurised?
[09:37] <eroomde> no
[09:37] <eroomde> alan did actually do a mars manned concept study with skylon building it in leo
[09:37] <eroomde> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0i66-P9UOo
[09:37] <gonzo_> manned assembly is probably upping the complexity by an order of magnitude, over automated/remote
[09:38] <eroomde> i agree
[09:38] <eroomde> rremote robot arms should be good enough for well-defined interfaces
[09:38] <AndyEsser> eroomde: Intense soundtrack ;)
[09:39] <eroomde> i am in a waitrose cafe waiting for the wine shop to open so i can't hear it
[09:39] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:40] <gonzo_> there were some plans to launch multiple cube sats that could dock to eachother. Think it was just as a proof of concept, as I would think that to add propulsion to such small cubes, would negate any gain in building a bigger unit
[09:41] <eroomde> at the cubesat level yes definitely
[09:41] <eroomde> it'd be entirely propulsion
[09:41] <gonzo_> and I assume with the fuel avail on a cubesat, they would be limited to being close to start with, therefor on the same launch
[09:41] <eroomde> that just sounds like someone angling for some funding rather than really solving a problem
[09:41] <AndyEsser> heh
[09:41] <eroomde> that said it'd be interesting
[09:41] <eroomde> i'd enjoy working on such a thing
[09:42] <eroomde> i think the atv is the only spacecraft to have demo'd full automated docking, so far
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[09:42] <gonzo_> yep, or for non technical and unreasonable metrics like money? As I assume it's far more expensive per kg to send a main payload, than the additional cubesats. Which are pretty much just ballast replacement and free
[09:42] <AndyEsser> it would definitely be interesting working on the software for something like that
[09:42] <eroomde> no, bollocks
[09:42] <eroomde> the russians did it in the 80s
[09:42] <eroomde> sorry
[09:43] <gonzo_> (£20k / kg to launch cubes I last saw
[09:43] <eroomde> really?
[09:43] <eroomde> as cheap as that?
[09:43] <eroomde> are you sure?
[09:43] <gonzo_> hehe, why do I get the image of ed with a shocked expression, his hand over his mouth, saying 'did I say that out loud??!!'
[09:43] <eroomde> my understanding is that it's either basically free/v subsisdised or very very expensive
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[09:44] <eroomde> if you pay the list price
[09:44] <gonzo_> I expoect there are other huge paperwork costs. But that was the figgure I heard at one of the amsat do's
[09:44] <eroomde> the £20k/kg figure usually is calculated by seeing that a ten tonne satellite costs £200,000,000 to launch
[09:45] <eroomde> and dividing through
[09:45] <eroomde> however that very much doesn't mean it costs you £20k to launch 1kg
[09:45] <eroomde> there is probably 30k in paperwork costs before you even get hardware, regardless of whether you're launching a spanner or a turd or a telecoms satellite or a tooth pic or a tub of hummus
[09:45] <gonzo_> that may well be where the calc came from
[09:45] <eroomde> about £100k of fixed costs independant of the mass of anything
[09:46] <gonzo_> if you have a space qual unit to start with, that may save lots
[09:46] <eroomde> it'd be a year's work for one-two people
[09:46] <AndyEsser> eroomde: got a spare year?
[09:46] <AndyEsser> :)
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[09:48] <eroomde> no
[09:48] <eroomde> but that's what the esa and nasa schemes usually take care of
[09:48] <gonzo_> the start of the amsat-uni collaburations, delft I think?? The uni were doing a talk at the some gathering and got chatting in the bar. They could do all the payload stuff in a phd cycle, but the vradio side was a whole extra big frightening aspect for them.
[09:48] <eroomde> people like NanoRacks
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[09:48] <gonzo_> They were a bit gob smacked when amsat offered them all the rf hardware that was already space qualified
[09:48] <eroomde> they do the interfacing to the rocket launch and deployment, and try and make it as easy for payload builders as possible
[09:48] <gonzo_> saved them shit loads
[09:48] <eroomde> to fit into a 2 year university project or whatever
[09:49] <eroomde> gonzo_: ISIS was born out of delft uni wasn't it?
[09:49] <eroomde> the space company rather than the jihadists
[09:50] <gonzo_> a few of the original delft launch students went on to set up a small sat building consultacny. They built the funcume sat
[09:50] <gonzo_> snap. Yes that is them ed
[09:50] <gonzo_> though an unfortunate name choice. But at least the .gov are trying to renale the terrorist lot
[09:51] <gonzo_> have we just rung bells in NSA HQ again?
[09:54] <eroomde> probably :)
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[09:55] <eroomde> though i've built plenty of hardware in the last 3 years, still none of it has gone into space
[09:55] <eroomde> that's a bit upsetting
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[09:58] <eroomde> another thing in the avr/arm debate (where arm = stm32 parts i've used so far) - the atmel's io protection is actually really pretty good
[09:58] <eroomde> you can use the input protection diodes as clamps
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[10:05] <gonzo_> I went for a job doing electronid warefare kit once. One of the things they were concerned about at the interviewm was my attitude towards finishing projects. As they found that many engineers would get disheartened when projects were just dumped mid term. As just leaking it out that an ecm project was being worked on, may be enough to gtet an enemy to retire a piece of munitions.
[10:06] <gonzo_> though I suspect that in reality, lots of the low level stuff that was developed would be resued anyway
[10:06] <gonzo_> and as that would have been me, I didn't see that it would be so bad
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[10:13] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I have no doubt something with you've built will end up in space :)
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[10:24] <AndyEsser> Wait... SDCards have all the read/write circuitry built in? You just need to send it commands/read data?
[10:25] <UpuWork> I just got some RTTY on 434.450 but it awol'd
[10:25] <UpuWork> oh its back
[10:25] <AndyEsser> \o/
[10:26] <UpuWork> suspect BARC is up
[10:26] <UpuWork> yeah its up
[10:26] <UpuWork> 434.450
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[10:26] <UpuWork> $$BARC,1159,10:26:34,53.16795,-2.39518,02236,22,322,12,15.2,4.1,175*DD9B
[10:26] <Chimpusmaximus> thats the elsworth one?
[10:27] <gonzo_> if anyone is interested, the SAQ VLF mechanical transmitter will be running xmas eve. 17.2kHz (+- a bloke with a spanner on the governor!)
[10:27] <UpuWork> yeah
[10:27] <Chimpusmaximus> cheers
[10:27] <gonzo_> starting aboyt 7.30pm
[10:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BARC - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BARC
[10:28] <gonzo_> they have a crc this time!
[10:28] <UpuWork> using pits... :)
[10:29] <UpuWork> thats not Elsworth
[10:29] <AndyEsser> o0o0, that's really not far from me
[10:29] <AndyEsser> shame I don't have a way to listen in :(
[10:30] <AndyEsser> There's a CheshireSDR?
[10:30] <AndyEsser> Interesting
[10:30] <AndyEsser> Ah it's at the University
[10:30] Action: AndyEsser sneaks in
[10:30] <UpuWork> .flights
[10:30] <SpacenearUS> 03UpuWork: Current flights: 03BARC 10(d24d)
[10:31] <mfa298> does that mean there's three flights today then
[10:32] <mfa298> AndyEsser: there's also a websdr at farnham http://websdr.suws.org.uk/ (mostly run by craag)
[10:32] <gb73d> http://www.universetoday.com/109009/watch-todays-progress-launch-and-docking-live/
[10:32] <AndyEsser> mfa298: that is oddly therapeutic to listen to :P
[10:33] <UpuWork> is it on Youtube anywhere gb73d ?
[10:33] <AndyEsser> gb73d: that's so not the current link?
[10:34] <gb73d> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdRlu-PYNJA
[10:40] <UpuWork> ta
[10:40] <pb0ahx> !flights
[10:40] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03BARC 10(d24d)
[10:41] <pb0ahx> !dial d24d
[10:41] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 03BARC 10(d24d): 03434.5 MHz
[10:41] <Martin_G4FUI> BARC caught me by surprise, I was looking for a Welshpool launch ... (BIG signal here in Penrith)
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[10:43] <eroomde> AndyEsser: yes
[10:44] <AndyEsser> eroomde: yes?
[10:45] <UpuWork> 70mph
[10:45] <UpuWork> far moving
[10:45] <UpuWork> fair
[10:46] <eroomde> what?
[10:48] <Martin_G4FUI> Uppards as well! :)
[10:55] <eroomde> best stream for launch?
[10:56] <AndyEsser> http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/watch-tim-peake-launch-stream-10600616
[10:56] <AndyEsser> that's what I'm watching
[10:57] <UpuWork> dat ascent rate
[10:59] <SM0ULC-Reb> right, it's a british guy :)
[11:03] <adamgreig> might have you beat for ascent rate there
[11:04] <AndyEsser> haha
[11:06] <Martin_G4FUI> Godspeed, Tim!
[11:06] <daveake> Pretty view of boosters separating
[11:06] <AndyEsser> indeed
[11:07] <SM0ULC-Reb> adamgreig: just might
[11:08] <SM0ULC-Reb> really nice views compared to the old days with some cuseeme-link
[11:09] <SM0ULC-Reb> wow, what a cool view from ISS!
[11:10] <fsphil> love it
[11:10] <gb73d> exchellant launch
[11:10] <Martin_G4FUI> ISS is up there with all the pinnacles of all human achievements IMHO
[11:11] <eroomde> controversial view here
[11:11] <Chimpusmaximus> Spot update on location for the other flight
[11:11] <SA6BSS-Mike> is it traces of a signal @ 434.452 ?
[11:12] <SA6BSS-Mike> from suws
[11:12] <SM0ULC-Reb> eroomde: controversial?
[11:12] <eroomde> that ISS is a pinnacle of human achievement
[11:13] <SM0ULC-Reb> ah
[11:13] <Martin_G4FUI> Just my opinion, I am just a layman!
[11:13] <fsphil> and they're in orbit
[11:14] <SM0ULC-Reb> great, tense every time...
[11:14] <eroomde> i think it's sort-of cool but the ISS itself seems to be a bit of a white elephant whose purpose was political rather than scientific
[11:14] <eroomde> a bit like the space shuttle
[11:15] <fsphil> that's such a small craft to be in for so long
[11:15] <Martin_G4FUI> Unfortunately, politics is always going to be a big factor in most things ...
[11:16] <eroomde> it's somewhat circular when you do things that expensive
[11:16] <eroomde> they attract more politics, and so become more expensive
[11:16] <eroomde> and suck all the limited oxygen out of the room for the all the other space exploration projects
[11:16] <eroomde> not that the iss is particularly explorative
[11:16] <Martin_G4FUI> Galileo, etc ... (politics/religion delete as applicable)
[11:17] <eroomde> ?
[11:18] <gonzo_> most people understand politics, as it's just an extension of human nature. ABut science and engineering is more complicated, so gets glossed over
[11:19] <Martin_G4FUI> Still, the Chris Hadfield effect has no doubt ispired some of the younger generation, and that can't be overestimated IMHO
[11:19] <gonzo_> and as science/eng gets more complicated ansd specialised, the public and politicians will understand it less, so decisions are based on things other than the actual issues
[11:20] <Martin_G4FUI> The law of diminishing returns ...
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[11:21] <eroomde> it can be overestimated in as much as people decide budgets
[11:22] <eroomde> they've got to quantify returns somehow
[11:22] <gonzo_> poss more that the public are more disengaged from the things that they rely on. It all starts turning back into witchcraft and magic
[11:22] <eroomde> i don't know how much this is costing (tim peake) but you should compare it to the budget for science teaching in other ways
[11:22] <eroomde> given outreach and symbolism is like 100% of the reason he's there
[11:23] <gonzo_> but at least, it's now one less ICBM
[11:23] <Martin_G4FUI> Clearly, I'm such a simple soul ...
[11:23] <eroomde> it's not like the building and running the ISS is fostering loads of invention, like the apollo program did
[11:23] <Martin_G4FUI> ... and an optimist!
[11:25] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
[11:25] <Martin_G4FUI> However, as this is in your field of expertise not mine, Ed, I'll defer ...
[11:25] <eroomde> Martin_G4FUI: to put it in perspective, the ISS cost is the same as doing 14 new horizons pluto probes each year, every year for ten years
[11:25] <eroomde> we could probably have rovers on every solid planet and moon in the solar system
[11:26] <eroomde> and we'd probably be close to a lunar base or a manned mars mission
[11:26] <eroomde> closer*
[11:26] <eroomde> the ISS was conceived as a reason to keep the space shuttle going when it ran out of actual reasons to keep it going
[11:27] <eroomde> and to keep some soviet space scientists from doing more vil things
[11:27] <eroomde> evil*
[11:27] <eroomde> and then the ISS became a reason to keep the shuttle going
[11:27] <eroomde> and they sustained each other in a symbiotic relationship of money-burning dependence
[11:28] <Martin_G4FUI> Never thought of it like that, I have to admit
[11:28] <eroomde> and if you ask someone waves their hands and says something about gorwing protein crystals in zero G, but when you look you see that nothing actually seems to have come from that
[11:28] <eroomde> and then all you have left is inspiring kids
[11:28] <eroomde> which is fine
[11:29] <eroomde> but it's a very expensive way of doing it that retards an industry full of grown-ups that could be doing so much more
[11:29] <Vaizki> industry full of retards .. can I quote you on that? :D
[11:29] <gonzo_> poss learning more about egn in space for long term human habitation. though not the most efficient way of doing that
[11:29] <eroomde> no because that's not what i said
[11:29] <Vaizki> doh
[11:29] <Martin_G4FUI> Back to your circular argument, Ed!
[11:29] <eroomde> gonzo_: very much not
[11:29] <Vaizki> I was going to spin it like a good politician
[11:30] <eroomde> there is only so much time you need to spend in zero g to know that you need to do impacting and resistive exercise
[11:30] <eroomde> oh, and radiation is bad for you
[11:30] <AndyEsser> ^ Quote of the Day :)
[11:30] <gonzo_> was thinking more of the meg eng
[11:30] <gonzo_> mech
[11:31] <gonzo_> actually I'm thinking more about my lunch, but that's anm aside
[11:31] <Martin_G4FUI> Meanwhile BARC is coming down somewhere in North Notts!
[11:32] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HORUSLORA after 039 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HORUSLORA
[11:32] <eroomde> i'd much rather we lobbed demonstrators all over the solar system
[11:33] <gonzo_> centre parcs!
[11:33] <AndyEsser> centre BARCs....
[11:33] <Martin_G4FUI> Just spotted that!
[11:33] <Martin_G4FUI> lol!
[11:33] <gonzo_> hehe
[11:33] <AndyEsser> I'm sorry, had to be done
[11:33] <Martin_G4FUI> Still loud here ...
[11:34] <eroomde> i'm having a nice bottle of sherry at work
[11:34] <eroomde> this is rather good
[11:34] <AndyEsser> eroomde: drunk rocket scientists... what could possibly go wrong :P
[11:34] <Martin_G4FUI> Must be Chrimbo ...
[11:34] <eroomde> we don't drive rocket engines under the influence
[11:34] <BrainDamage> don't drink and derive
[11:35] <Martin_G4FUI> Mince pies, Ed?
[11:35] <AndyEsser> I tend to try to achieve the Ballmer Peak when writing software :P
[11:35] <eroomde> almonds
[11:36] <AndyEsser> if it lands where it's currently predicted, couldn't really ask for better :)
[11:36] <Martin_G4FUI> Dropping out with me, rapidly ...
[11:37] <Martin_G4FUI> You cannae change the laws of physics ...
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[11:38] <UpuWork> BARC likely to land on Center Parcs :)
[11:38] <Martin_G4FUI> Lots of trees there ...
[11:38] <eroomde> let's hope no dented range rovers
[11:39] <gonzo_> fun for them, as long as it doesn't upset things for all of us
[11:39] <Martin_G4FUI> And some mad bloke with a longbow
[11:39] <UpuWork> apparently Alex from BARC is a climber and he takes his stuff with him so they've never lost one to a tree yet
[11:39] <AndyEsser> laugh it landed on the golf course and fell into one of the holes :)
[11:39] <Martin_G4FUI> Perfect!
[11:40] <eroomde> that would be an epic hole in one
[11:40] <AndyEsser> eroomde: was my thinking :)
[11:40] <Martin_G4FUI> Preferred lie, one hopes ...
[11:40] <eroomde> 47587 yards tee, par 1
[11:41] <AndyEsser> on the tracker, I presume the icon changes to the parachute from the balloon when the vertical rate goes negative?
[11:42] <UpuWork> over -1 I think
[11:42] <daveake> a certain degree of negative, yes
[11:42] <UpuWork> maybe -2
[11:42] <gonzo_> one of dave's landed on a golf course and someopne picked it up. Think there was a track of it going from hole to hole?
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[11:42] <daveake> yup
[11:42] <AndyEsser> haha
[11:43] <gonzo_> (or am I confusing it with one one being driven around by a farm hand?)
[11:43] <AndyEsser> if it lands before Rainworth water it's open field
[11:43] <daveake> Steve had that yes
[11:43] <AndyEsser> although.... power lines
[11:43] <daveake> Mine we did get some track on the golf course yes
[11:43] <gonzo_> I get them mixed up
[11:43] <daveake> There was also mine that floated in on the tide
[11:44] <gonzo_> and your floating one, that was the best eve's tracking ever
[11:45] <gonzo_> snap
[11:45] <UpuWork> whats the other launch other than Hillcocks ?
[11:45] <UpuWork> eroomde ?
[11:45] <gonzo_> looks like they have been BARCing up the wrong tree
[11:45] <gonzo_> (sorry)
[11:45] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: badum tsch
[11:45] <AndyEsser> :P
[11:46] <AndyEsser> least there's an access road nearby
[11:46] <gonzo_> suppose we won't know, unless they post something on their site
[11:47] <eroomde> UpuWork: what are you referring to?
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[11:48] <UpuWork> you said there were three launches today
[11:50] <eroomde> i said there was one at 11
[11:50] <eroomde> and there was
[11:50] <eroomde> to the ISS
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[11:50] <UpuWork> ah sorry derpy me
[11:50] <gonzo_> suppose ours are technically releases
[11:51] <gonzo_> unless you forget to tie the balloon neck and it farts off
[11:51] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03M6LZY after 0314 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M6LZY
[11:51] <mfa298> UpuWork: you said there was one from Elsworth, plus Chris' and then we had BARC (or is Elsworth == BARC)
[11:51] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: guarantee I'll do that on my first launch
[11:51] <AndyEsser> which is why I'll be packing a spare balloon
[11:52] <gonzo_> I had that happen woith a few 'party' balloon tests
[11:52] <UpuWork> Yeah it wasn't Elsworth
[11:52] <UpuWork> and thats down now
[11:52] <gonzo_> (wanted to find the free lift of condoms, and they are a bit slippy!)
[11:52] <AndyEsser> haha
[11:53] <eroomde> i have lost two balloons prematurely
[11:53] <gonzo_> 10g inflated to max, btw
[11:53] <eroomde> one was when a group came to launch with us (with us doing the balloon) and they brough a howyee which was the first time i'd seen one
[11:53] <eroomde> with a much bigger neck than our fill rig was desgined for
[11:53] <eroomde> and my bit of gaffa tape was insufficient to hold it to the tube
[11:54] <eroomde> the other time was filling a 3kg balloon to 20kg of necklift
[11:54] <eroomde> it broke the fill rig and took the fill tube up with it
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[11:54] <Flutterbat> that sounds dangerous :x
[11:54] <gonzo_> did you get either back ed?
[11:54] <eroomde> nope
[11:54] <eroomde> Flutterbat: i don't think it was especially dangerous
[11:55] <eroomde> just, tiresome
[11:55] <Flutterbat> idk a metal tube droping from the sky doesnt sound very save
[11:55] <gonzo_> would a latex ballon run zero pressure, have enough vol/lift to make it float?
[11:56] <eroomde> Flutterbat: maube you can copy and paste the bit where i said metal
[11:56] <eroomde> i seem to have mislaid it
[11:57] <Flutterbat> eroomde: well you wrote it was a titanium rod
[11:57] <eroomde> er
[11:57] <Flutterbat> sry for the misleading quote :>
[11:57] <eroomde> 11:56:41 eroomde Flutterbat: maube you can copy and paste the bit where i said meta
[11:58] <eroomde> or even titanium
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[11:58] <eroomde> i literally have not mentioned titanium here
[11:58] <Flutterbat> idk. my bad i assumed it was metall >.>
[11:59] <eroomde> nope
[11:59] <Flutterbat> yeah i figured
[11:59] <eroomde> depiste appearances i'm usually fairly careful about my choice of words
[11:59] <eroomde> not so much about my typing
[12:00] <Chimpusmaximus> Chris's balloon might be up going by spot
[12:03] <fsphil> slightly more useful than dowsing then
[12:03] <eroomde> meow
[12:05] <mattbrejza> nope its on ssdv.habhub ,it seems
[12:07] <fsphil> ah nice
[12:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DK6GB_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK6GB_chase
[12:22] <eroomde> https://twitter.com/iamdevloper/status/676695839524282368
[12:23] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I saw that earlier and nearly linked it to you :P
[12:25] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: latex are always several millibars up tilll burst, when it rises modestly before bursting
[12:26] <gonzo_> I did a compressed air test on a 100g latex, to see the pressure. With a view to making a pressure release valve to get float
[12:27] <gonzo_> but I did see that pressure was only a few mb
[12:27] <Darkside_> big valve
[12:27] <gonzo_> decided that an avtive valve, driven from gps alt would be abbetter bet
[12:28] <Darkside_> i think you need a large aperture
[12:28] <fsphil> or a pump
[12:28] <gonzo_> yep, I was thinking a small spring loaded bung would work, tillI did the measurement
[12:28] <SpeedEvil> pump needs to deal with massive volumes
[12:29] <gonzo_> it's obnly the increase in vol, above a certain heing to dump
[12:29] <gonzo_> height
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> yes, but it needs to deal with massive flow
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> comparatively
[12:32] <AndyEsser> eroomde: o0o Reaction Engines need a Senior IT Analyst
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[12:44] <eroomde> AndyEsser: it appears so
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[12:51] <AndyEsser> eroomde: don't worry - not about to apply :P
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[12:59] <fsphil> suprising number of packets for a mostly empty image
[13:00] <fsphil> must be all the noise
[13:00] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-12 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-12
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[13:10] <fab4space> burst for M6LZY
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[14:13] <EdwArduino> Does anybody know where one can find logs with location/altitude of amateur zero pressure flights?
[14:16] <Laurenceb> EdwArdunio: check LeoBodnars site
[14:16] <eroomde> they weren't zero pressure
[14:18] <mattbrejza> dan had a long list at one conference?
[14:20] <Laurenceb> wtf
[14:20] <Laurenceb> I can't read
[14:20] <Laurenceb> ignore me
[14:21] <AndyEsser> Speaking of conferences, did anyone buy EMF tickets last night?
[14:21] <mattbrejza> a few of us did
[14:22] <craag> more of us attempted :/
[14:22] <AndyEsser> just checked the twitters
[14:22] <AndyEsser> website crashed
[14:22] <AndyEsser> ha
[14:23] <AndyEsser> I'll have to try and make sure I'm ready for the next batch
[14:24] <AndyEsser> I can't currently connect back home... this makes me anxious
[14:25] <craag> 253 tickets sold in 18 minutes
[14:25] <UpuWork> BARC recovered gravity was on their side : http://imgur.com/F3GDtWi
[14:25] <mattbrejza> when the main sale goes live they wont sell out that fast i can only assume
[14:25] <UpuWork> http://imgur.com/SpPWA62
[14:25] <AndyEsser> that photo looks like it's the beginning of a horror flick
[14:26] <AndyEsser> UpuWork: nice :)
[14:26] <AndyEsser> although... photo of computer monitor...
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[14:32] <Vaizki> umm that photo looks like 90% of Finland so thanks! :D
[14:34] Nick change: ghoti_ -> ghoti
[14:35] <Vaizki> .. and I splurged on a decent bench PSU finally today.. this electronics thing is a decent hobby, i.e. takes up all your money and fills up your house
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[14:38] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: my entire dining room table, sideboard, and both of my lounge side tables are currently covered in all my electronics stuff until I build my workbench over xmas
[14:38] <Vaizki> although nothing like this Finnish guy who salvaged an old IBM 1800 with a load of options from a closed mining operation.. been unplugged from the process since the mid 80's and left there untouched
[14:40] <AndyEsser> http://www.engadget.com/2015/06/14/amiga-controls-school-district-hvac/
[14:40] <Vaizki> it uses ferrite ring memory so it should still contain the program that was running back then and he intends to dump the memory when he gets it back up and running again :)
[14:40] <AndyEsser> nice
[14:41] <Vaizki> http://ennenmikrotietokoneita.blogspot.fi/2015/08/1800-kesakuvia.html
[14:41] <Vaizki> this 1800 is a bit different size of computer..
[14:41] <Vaizki> the pics are from his home apparently
[14:41] <AndyEsser> that's a fairly sizable computer :P
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[14:43] <Vaizki> yea so show that to the wife/gf when she complains about your stuff
[14:44] <AndyEsser> hehe
[14:44] <AndyEsser> thankfully I don't have that problem at the moment :P
[14:44] <AndyEsser> little victories... :P
[14:46] <Vaizki> congr.. sorry'bout that!
[14:46] <AndyEsser> heh
[14:46] <AndyEsser> it means I have more money to spend on buying cool stuff instead :)
[14:46] <gonzo_> I always used the 'because I want to/when I
[14:47] <gonzo_> 'm ready'. (So that prob explians why I am free of that prob too!
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[15:06] <Vaizki> yea, anyway got me an Agilent 6632B 20V/5A supply (used of course), mainly because it's accurate to uA range for current measuring and also acts as a DC sink if needed
[15:07] <AndyEsser> \o/
[15:08] <Vaizki> also lots cheaper than a chinese manual knob psu .. :O
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[15:08] <Vaizki> cost about £100 shipped and seems like there's a bunch of them on ebay as well (the A model is not as accurate or programmable, no serial port for logging etc)
[15:10] <eroomde> those are the bomb
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[15:11] <eroomde> best psu for the money by a factor of ten compared to the next best
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[15:11] <AndyEsser> bit out of my price range for the moment sadly
[15:12] <eroomde> don't spend less than that on a psu when you do come to buy one
[15:13] <AndyEsser> hmm
[15:13] <AndyEsser> at least it's rack mountable :)
[15:13] <eroomde> you won't get anything you'd want to use for less than that
[15:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KK6MFT-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6MFT-11
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[15:28] <fab4space> hello daveake Upu UpuWork , have you already tried to put a rf shield on top of the LoRa HopeRF module like it is done for other highend LoRa module and compare the results in terms of sensitivity for low LoRa signals
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[15:52] <AndyEsser> o look the original AVR programmer I ordered finally arrived
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[16:00] <fsphil> spoilt for choice
[16:00] <eroomde> arko has tweeted some frost on his car
[16:01] <fsphil> whoa
[16:02] <fsphil> oh he said the same
[16:04] <eroomde> you know him
[16:08] <eroomde> https://twitter.com/British_First/status/676743561065443329
[16:08] <fsphil> means it's warmer here than LA
[16:08] <fsphil> doesn't happen often
[16:10] <AndyEsser> eroomde: o god
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[16:26] <eroomde> that was a good visit
[16:26] <eroomde> let's see if his friend lanlud turns up
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[16:39] <mattbrejza> 'According to the European Space Agency (Esa), both the Soyuz capsule and the ISS should be visible in the sky shortly before the docking procedure this evening.'
[16:39] <mattbrejza> shame its raining
[16:39] <craag> 5:15 iirc
[16:40] <fsphil> rain here too
[16:40] <craag> https://principia.ariss.org/dashboard/
[16:40] <UpuWork> hi IUBAM
[16:40] <fsphil> could be a while before Tim sees the UK from his new home :)
[16:40] <mattbrejza> i havnt managed to find a page showing the iss and the soyuz
[16:40] <UpuWork> Anyone know gqrx where is the bandwidth setting ?
[16:41] <fsphil> you can adjust the rx bandwidth my just dragging the grey bit in the spectrum
[16:41] <UpuWork> IUBAM /\ set it to 3000
[16:41] <eroomde> 'the grey bit' sounds like the title of some nerd horror story
[16:41] <fsphil> there's also a Filter drop-down box in the Receiver Options
[16:42] <fsphil> the normal one is about 3000hz iirc
[16:42] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, cloud is almost at ground level and the dampness is pervasive. Chances of seeing ISS and Soyuz? Zilch minus....
[16:43] <fsphil> nerd horror, chapter 1: "I clicked the link in the email, now my computer isn't working"
[16:43] <LazyLeopard> Heh!
[16:43] <IUBAM> Ok, I switched it to Normal filter
[16:44] <UpuWork> and zoom in
[16:44] <fsphil> impressive how far SDRs have come. and how far the software still has to go
[16:48] <IUBAM> ok, now getting much lower tones + static coming in.
[16:48] <fsphil> amateur radio rigs will probably end up as something in-between. sdr's with a built-in frontend
[16:49] <fsphil> frontend == UI, controls, etc
[16:50] <eroomde> maybe sample the IF directly
[16:50] <UpuWork> can we see a screen shot again please (upload to imgur.com)
[16:52] <IUBAM> http://imgur.com/GzfHI71
[16:52] <UpuWork> can you zoom in on the signal please ?
[16:52] <UpuWork> you should see "batmans head"
[16:53] <fsphil> looks ok on the audio output
[16:54] <fsphil> spectrum
[16:54] <fsphil> tuned a little low perhaps
[16:54] <UpuWork> yeah
[16:54] <IUBAM> http://imgur.com/VlMBufU
[16:54] <fsphil> hehe
[16:54] <UpuWork> yeah move it left and make batmans head in the middle
[16:54] <UpuWork> then go back to dl-fldigi
[16:55] <fsphil> cats ears
[16:55] <UpuWork> batmans head :)
[16:56] <IUBAM> ok
[16:56] <UpuWork> damn I need to go, I'll back back in an hour or so
[16:56] <IUBAM> ok
[17:10] <SM0ULC-Reb> ig spaceday for Britain! :)
[17:10] <SM0ULC-Reb> /ig/Big
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[17:11] <AndyEsser> o yea, docking time
[17:11] Action: AndyEsser boots up NASA TV
[17:12] <mattbrejza> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/
[17:12] <mattbrejza> docking time
[17:16] <fsphil> going to be dark for the docking
[17:16] <fsphil> is it retreating?
[17:17] <AndyEsser> appears to be resetting for a manual docking
[17:17] <fsphil> yeah. got worried there for a moment
[17:17] <Hix> apparently the automated failed. Going to manual
[17:17] <Hix> No reverse beeper. Them crazy Russians
[17:18] <fsphil> it backed up pretty quick
[17:18] <mattbrejza> can barely see across the solent let alone the iss :(
[17:20] <fsphil> off to the side a bit
[17:20] <AndyEsser> that seems way off angle
[17:21] <SpeedEvil> Something odd.
[17:21] <fsphil> backing up again
[17:21] <SpeedEvil> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html - I wonder if that flashing is slow-scan interlaced, or some ntsc/... conversiona rtifact
[17:22] <fsphil> russian, might be secam
[17:23] <fsphil> drat, I have to go
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> Oh wow - it's in colour
[17:25] <SpeedEvil> this is actually a commercial tie-in.
[17:25] <SpeedEvil> He is shortly going to disengage the autopilot, close his eyes, and use the force.
[17:25] <AndyEsser> o dear
[17:25] <AndyEsser> :P
[17:28] <SpeedEvil> Any bets it'll somehow be the fault of Ukraine?
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[17:36] <AndyEsser> right, now that's done - time for me to head home
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[18:09] <AndyEsser> *sigh* thank you WinAVR for buggering up my PATH
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[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[18:11] <AndyEsser> O/
[18:30] <fsphil> ahoy
[18:35] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N4XWC-1 after 033 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> hm new balloon computer is a fail
[18:36] <daveake> wossup ?
[18:38] <fsphil> computer said no?
[18:38] <daveake> nein
[18:40] <fsphil> http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/
[18:41] <fsphil> no german subtitles, sadly
[18:41] <daveake> yesssssssssss
[18:43] <AndyEsser> Lunar_Lander: turn it off and on again?
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> no, not that sort of problem
[18:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9PON-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9PON-11
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[18:58] <AndyEsser> Lunar_Lander: o you mean it's a <whispers> down below problem? </whispers>
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[19:01] <eroomde> stargaving live again
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[19:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Who are the giving them to then ?
[19:01] <eroomde> gasing*
[19:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> z
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[19:02] <fsphil> iplayer audio screwed up for me
[19:02] <fsphil> might have to turn on the tv. sheesh
[19:05] <eroomde> chris hadfield is definitely canadian isn't he
[19:06] <eroomde> he has the canadianess i can't quite describe with words
[19:07] <eroomde> it's a sort of calm extreme competance slightly hidden under an air of slightly gormlessness
[19:08] <eroomde> like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wZ1v4PIsYI
[19:09] <eroomde> extremely talented but with a sort of apologetic air
[19:09] <eroomde> or an extra from fargo
[19:09] <eroomde> anyway
[19:09] <Vaizki> Like Q?
[19:10] <eroomde> Q was more of a Puckish character i think
[19:10] <realborg> star trek q?
[19:10] <eroomde> i assumed so
[19:11] <realborg> my canadian stereotype is Rodney McKay
[19:11] <fsphil> hah
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[19:12] <eroomde> is that the one of stargate?
[19:12] <eroomde> see that doesn't work for me as a canadian
[19:12] <eroomde> he's too fast-talking
[19:12] <eroomde> too self-aware
[19:12] <fsphil> zed pee em
[19:12] <eroomde> a sort of canadian as imagined by aaron sorkin
[19:12] <eroomde> it's very good having chris hadfield there
[19:12] <fsphil> he's a great public speaker
[19:13] <eroomde> he can see exactly which telemetry segement to point out saliently, almost instinctively from all the training
[19:13] <eroomde> while i'm unsure that all this media stuff justifies continuing with the ISS, they are doing it pretty well
[19:13] <fsphil> yeah he knew exactly why it was backing out after the failed auto dock
[19:14] <eroomde> i can see the PM and gary linecker doing a thumbs-up appearing on the inernal UKSA presentations about 'Impact'
[19:14] <eroomde> internal*
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[19:15] <realborg> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poZCINzxzrQ <- I found that pretty cool
[19:15] <realborg> first person to bring art into space?
[19:16] <eroomde> well that's why he's famous right
[19:16] <eroomde> it wasn't for doing science
[19:16] <eroomde> or doing exploration
[19:16] <eroomde> or test-piloting
[19:16] <eroomde> or whatever
[19:16] <eroomde> it was basically everyone deciding to ride the elephant in the room, which is that the ISS is all about symbolism and public engagement
[19:17] <eroomde> and not really pretending it's a lab or whatever
[19:17] <eroomde> and he was very good at it
[19:17] <fsphil> under attack ... FROM SPACE
[19:17] <realborg> considering some other experiments they are doing on iss - trying playing and singing in space was as well "science"
[19:18] <eroomde> ?
[19:18] <fsphil> I'm sure there was lots of singing and playing long before chris
[19:18] <fsphil> there was certainly on Mir
[19:18] <eroomde> yeah
[19:18] <eroomde> they just went for it this time. the twitter age etc
[19:18] <eroomde> i'm sure they were singing along with johnny cash in the apollo programme
[19:19] <eroomde> i'm really pleased that this bbc thing is on now though, making the most of it given we've got to keep this thing up there. They're doing a good job - I'd have enjoyed this as a schoolkid
[19:20] <fsphil> wonder if they had a music tape player on apollo
[19:20] <realborg> maybe copyright killed the recordings of any music previously done in space ;)
[19:20] <fsphil> been around since 1962 apparently
[19:20] <AndyEsser> eroomde: you really don't like the ISS :P
[19:21] <eroomde> like with most things, there's the idea and the execution and the two shouldn't be too conflated
[19:21] <realborg> AndyEsser, wernher von braun imagined better space stations in ~1950
[19:22] <eroomde> observe that the USA will go about a decade without a way of putting people in space
[19:22] <eroomde> because the shuttle was a similar white elephant that sucked up all the monies
[19:22] <AndyEsser> realborg: and?
[19:22] <eroomde> and there was nothing left when it retired because it threw all other chicks out of the nest
[19:22] <eroomde> the ISS is likewise, I think
[19:22] <fsphil> could've had a moon base by now!
[19:23] <realborg> AndyEsser, would you want to drive a ford prototype after you've seen a racing car?
[19:23] <AndyEsser> realborg: yes
[19:23] <AndyEsser> I can't afford a racing car
[19:23] <AndyEsser> it's not practical for going shopping in
[19:25] <realborg> it was a sad day when mir was destroyed because it was so much ahead of its time
[19:25] <eroomde> it was falling apart though
[19:25] <eroomde> but yes, the russians rerally did really great space station work
[19:26] <fsphil> it would've destroyed itself and its crew if it has been left
[19:26] <Laurenceb> I don't see why there is so much fanfare
[19:26] <Laurenceb> like this is the first uk astronaut or something
[19:26] <fsphil> the ISS will look impressive on re-entry
[19:26] <realborg> they could have just sent a pack of duct tape ;)
[19:26] <eroomde> Laurenceb: there doesn't *need* to be, this is routine, but what else do you do when we've spent so much to have him there?
[19:26] <eroomde> fsphil: i can't wait to see that
[19:26] <Laurenceb> how much did it actually cost?
[19:26] <eroomde> it'll be spectacular
[19:27] <fsphil> yeah
[19:27] <Laurenceb> probably less expensive than some of my random work projects :-/
[19:27] <Laurenceb> guess its cheap media attention which is kind of good
[19:28] <michal_f> !flights
[19:28] <SpacenearUS> 03michal_f: Current flights: 03BARC 10(d24d)
[19:28] <eroomde> Laurenceb: what we're buying is public engagement, with this one
[19:28] <Laurenceb> yeah
[19:29] <eroomde> not beating communisism of scientific research or technology development
[19:29] <eroomde> s/of/or*
[19:29] <mbales_> i miss when beating communism was a reason to spend a whole lotta money on something
[19:30] <eroomde> no i don't know the exact price, it's actually quite hard to find out as the iss is smeared so thoroughly, funding-wise
[19:31] Action: Laurenceb sends some rods from god to mbales
[19:32] <Laurenceb> well its probably a tiny fraction of the money UK has spent on the ISS
[19:32] <russss> I think the UK paid £10m/year
[19:32] <russss> to get an astronaut
[19:32] <Laurenceb> lol
[19:32] <mbales_> haha
[19:32] <mbales_> do not want!
[19:32] <Laurenceb> we blew that much in a few weeks on injection molding tools
[19:32] <eroomde> that might be the accounting item but i'm willing to bet it costs vastly more than that
[19:32] <Laurenceb> (UK gov grants)
[19:33] <russss> well I assume ESA has to pay for their part regardless
[19:33] <Laurenceb> UK has surely paid way more towards ISS
[19:33] <eroomde> ESA couldn't buy a tin opener for £10M
[19:33] <AndyEsser> ha
[19:33] <Laurenceb> *Dr Evil voice* like ten BILLION
[19:33] <russss> and I think there was some canny negotiating by David Willets
[19:34] <eroomde> it'll be just this and that and other stuff and deals all over the place
[19:34] <russss> iirc we were contributing a fair amount to ESA but it was specifically earmarked away from human spaceflight
[19:34] <Laurenceb> 1 seat on a soyuz in peanuts compared to all the other stuff thats going on
[19:34] <Laurenceb> yet its hyped like its the most amazing thing ever
[19:34] <eroomde> i witness this daily and can't go much into detail but the official amount given to ESA subscription has little to do with the amount of money that goes to, or from, esa
[19:35] <eroomde> the government very often will 'hire' esa to project manage this or that (because gov/uksa civil servants claim not to have the exterptise to manage technical projects)
[19:35] <russss> yeah I think it was politics. probably pretty good politics.
[19:35] <eroomde> and that's extra money
[19:35] <eroomde> and a v large amount of money goes through that way
[19:36] <eroomde> so it's uk money but it's actually going to esa, and esa will take their 20% overheard and insist on stuff being done their way
[19:36] <eroomde> which is to say quite slowly and expensively and very linearly
[19:36] <eroomde> you completely design it first on paper and thus it is perfect
[19:36] <eroomde> you then completely build it all at once and it will be perfect
[19:36] <eroomde> you then assemble it and it will work
[19:36] <eroomde> the end
[19:36] <russss> presumably if we leave the EU we'll lose the chance of getting anyone else to the ISS
[19:36] <eroomde> no
[19:36] <eroomde> not at all
[19:36] <eroomde> ESA is separate from the EU
[19:36] <eroomde> no relationship
[19:37] <eroomde> and quite orhtogonal
[19:37] <russss> ah didn't know that
[19:37] <eroomde> the EU wants to change this naturally, but that is how things are atm
[19:37] <russss> sounds a lot like an EU organisation to me :p
[19:37] <fsphil> Canada is a member of ESA
[19:37] <eroomde> the EU is actually a member state of ESA, like france of italy or US
[19:37] <eroomde> bizarelly
[19:37] <eroomde> they chip in
[19:38] <eroomde> and more stuff gets laundered through that way, needless to say
[19:38] <mbales_> thats bizarre
[19:38] <eroomde> yep
[19:38] <eroomde> that's politics
[19:39] <mbales_> i wish it were more like kerbal space program
[19:39] <eroomde> amenable to lots of death?
[19:40] <mbales_> well that too, all for the greater good. But more an entire planets resources aimed at one goal
[19:40] <mbales_> plus the physics is waaaay easier
[19:41] <eroomde> in KSP?
[19:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB8ELK-5 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-5
[19:42] <mbales_> yeah, its only 1 body physics
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[19:44] <eroomde> i did show someone an iridium flare the other week
[19:44] <eroomde> they seemed to be mind-blown
[19:44] <fsphil> those can be great
[19:45] <fsphil> I didn't know what it was the first time
[19:45] <eroomde> they can be stunning
[19:45] <eroomde> they leave the ISS for dust
[19:45] <mbales_> never heard of such a thing
[19:46] <eroomde> they're extremely polished surfaces on the sides of the iridium satellites
[19:46] <eroomde> and very planar
[19:47] <eroomde> that means the blast a spot on earth with reflected sunlight a bit like a watchface does across large distances
[19:47] <eroomde> and if you're right underneath one it can be about magnitude -8
[19:47] <mbales_> yeah, i was just reading the wikipedia article on it
[19:47] <fsphil> https://www.heavens-above.com/IridiumFlares.aspx
[19:47] <eroomde> which is enough to throw your night vision completely
[19:47] <mbales_> thats pretty cool
[19:47] <eroomde> but they're only visible for a second or two
[19:47] <fsphil> this site can predict them for your location
[19:47] <AndyEsser> eroomde: sounds like ESA need an Agile workshop :P
[19:47] <eroomde> agile and other retarded management buzzword fads are the very last thing ESA needs
[19:47] <AndyEsser> hehe
[19:48] <AndyEsser> I'm a fan of quicker, iterative development
[19:48] <AndyEsser> but appreciate when lives and large sums of money are on the line - it might not be the best
[19:48] <eroomde> i do think they should allow prototypes
[19:49] <eroomde> and smaller projects less encumbered but The ESA Way that can quickly try stuff
[19:52] <AndyEsser> my totally mission critical and highly performant CLI is implemented :)
[19:55] <Vaizki> Iridium flares are stunning
[19:55] <Vaizki> Unlike iridium commercial success
[19:57] <eroomde> he is good tho, chris hadfield
[19:57] <fsphil> I'd always wondered if they heard things hitting the hull
[19:57] <eroomde> all good for more funding of space research
[19:57] <fsphil> must be a worrying sound
[19:58] <eroomde> i would imagine so
[19:58] <eroomde> i understand it's quite noisy on the iss
[19:59] <eroomde> ha with 2 mins to go till next programme
[19:59] <fsphil> the two tims
[20:03] <eroomde> i know him
[20:03] <eroomde> george
[20:03] <eroomde> george abby
[20:03] <eroomde> he's the father of the ISS
[20:04] <eroomde> he was caled darth vader by other nasa administrators
[20:04] <fsphil> this is a weird thing they're doing now
[20:05] <eroomde> sat and had a whiskey one conference. was quite odd
[20:06] <eroomde> ha live TV to the rescue
[20:08] <eroomde> i know him too
[20:08] <eroomde> he's just left uksa to join ESA
[20:08] <eroomde> yay lag
[20:09] <fsphil> sounds like it's off multiple satellites
[20:10] <eroomde> tbh that's like every convo i have with my mum on the phone
[20:13] <eroomde> so george abbey is quite an interesting guy whom you don't hear about as much as other nasa people, though perhaps you should
[20:13] <eroomde> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Abbey
[20:14] <eroomde> he was the one who proposed collaborating with the russians on mir, before basically starting the ISS
[20:14] <eroomde> and he ran the astronaut programme though the 70s i think
[20:15] <fsphil> hah, designed with lego
[20:15] <fsphil> "with yellow pads and Legos, the group came up with a new modular space station"
[20:17] <AndyEsser> modular FTW :)
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[20:21] <AndyEsser> *sigh*
[20:21] <AndyEsser> I hate memory manip. in C :(
[20:23] <fsphil> you have 2K. you can't be doing that much manipulation
[20:23] <eroomde> yeah was gonna say
[20:23] <eroomde> it's like working in a tiny kitchen
[20:23] <eroomde> gotta organize and keep everything clean
[20:26] <bertrik> I like that metaphor :)
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[20:33] <AndyEsser> All I'm doing is in 1 loop malloc'ing something, and in another, free'ing it
[20:33] <AndyEsser> and the free'ing insta-resets the uC
[20:33] <fsphil> ah, malloc
[20:33] <fsphil> probably best to avoid that
[20:34] <Hiena> AndyEsser: check for double free corruption.
[20:35] <AndyEsser> Hiena: I check whether it's a valid pointer before free'ing, and once free'd set the pointer to 0 - so not sure how I'd be managing that
[20:41] <eroomde> AndyEsser: is this on the avr?
[20:41] <Hiena> Is it 0 or NULL? The free() only set the allocated memory as reusable, but the pointer will be "still alive", if you use it. The safe way is for example free(pointer); pointer=NULL;
[20:42] <Hiena> That will set the pointer to NULL, which means at the most cases an uninitalised pointer.
[20:43] <AndyEsser> Hiena: which is what I do
[20:43] <AndyEsser> NULL = 0
[20:43] <AndyEsser> eroomde: yarp
[20:43] <eroomde> yeah
[20:43] <eroomde> i'd just not go near dynamic memoery management at all
[20:44] <eroomde> conventional wisdom says no
[20:44] <eroomde> it's explicitly banned in many embedded coding standards
[20:44] <eroomde> like JPL's
[20:44] <AndyEsser> eroomde: basically what I've done now - reorged it to use non dynamic
[20:45] <Hiena> AndyEsser: sometimes 0 != NULL .
[20:46] <AndyEsser> Hiena: I checked
[20:46] <AndyEsser> #define NULL 0
[20:46] <AndyEsser> :)
[20:46] <fsphil> I've never seen NULL not equal 0 so far
[20:46] <Hiena> It's a avr-gcc?
[20:46] <AndyEsser> Hiena: yes - however I did change the code to NULL
[20:46] <fsphil> *in C at least
[20:47] <AndyEsser> because ptr = NULL reads better anyway
[20:47] <AndyEsser> but anyway - I've re-orged code to not require dynamic memory
[20:48] <AndyEsser> but concerned about stack size when doing more memory intensive stuff
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[20:55] <fsphil> C blinky is so much nicer than assembly blinky
[20:55] <eroomde> assembly macros can go some way
[20:55] <fsphil> yeah, a lot of the assembly version was repeated
[20:55] <fsphil> read a register, toggle a bit, write it back
[20:56] <AndyEsser> fsphil: I've done more than enough Assembly this year
[20:56] <AndyEsser> I just went straight to C :P
[20:56] <AndyEsser> eroomde: you'll appreciate this
[20:56] <AndyEsser> started working on my own OS this year :)
[20:56] <AndyEsser> this'll be the... 5th attempt
[20:56] <AndyEsser> :P
[20:58] <fsphil> gcc did a pretty good job, compared to what I did
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[21:03] <eroomde> AndyEsser: actually it's a really fun thing to try for an avr
[21:03] <eroomde> a really simple preemptive scheduler
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[21:08] <Hiena> I rather like the daisy chained ones. Even if tasks does nothing i could depend on the timing.
[21:10] <AndyEsser> eroomde: that erm... wasn't on my list of things to do ;)
[21:10] <fsphil> muhaha
[21:10] <AndyEsser> maybe..
[21:16] <fsphil> vga video output isn't too hard on an avr either...
[21:16] <AndyEsser> http://imgur.com/a/2jz6Y
[21:16] <AndyEsser> fsphil: o don't
[21:17] <AndyEsser> I'll end up trying to write a version of OpenGL ES for it
[21:17] <fsphil> ooh I should try video on this stm
[21:17] <bertrik> maybe you can do an oscilloscope with it
[21:18] <eroomde> scopes need a pretty wide pipe :)
[21:18] <AndyEsser> *sniggers*
[21:18] <realborg> opengl based i/q stream visualization - that would be nice
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[21:19] <eroomde> for looking at constellations?
[21:19] <fsphil> http://sdr.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/fosphor
[21:19] <eroomde> it might be quite fun on a ham radio
[21:19] <fsphil> ok not IQ but still lovely
[21:20] <fsphil> I've never got fosphr running on my PCs. silly ati linux driver
[21:22] Nick change: uwe__ -> uwe_
[21:23] <AndyEsser> gah, being able to attach a debugger right now would be awesome
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[21:31] <eroomde> got an avr dragon?
[21:34] <AndyEsser> nope
[21:35] <eroomde> it's quite good
[21:36] <AndyEsser> just looking at debugWIRE on-chip debugging now
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[21:41] <eroomde> who needs visualstudio when you have ddd
[21:41] <eroomde> i have never actually investigated graphical debugging inside vim
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[21:50] <AndyEsser> Anyone - bed time for me
[21:50] <AndyEsser> speak to y'all tomorrow
[21:50] <fsphil> nite
[21:54] <AndyEsser> Yea, losing my temper with this code
[21:54] Action: AndyEsser glares
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[23:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 0311 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
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[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[23:39] <Laurenceb> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/29/before-we-set-up-colonies-on-mars-we-need-to-discuss-renaming-its-moons
[23:39] <Laurenceb> a wild Poe appears
[23:51] <lz1dev> rather suiting names given the hostile enviroment
[23:54] <realborg> hostile is relative
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> Quite.
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> Surface of Io for example.
[23:59] <mbales_> anyone ever used one of these: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13745
[00:00] --- Wed Dec 16 2015