highaltitude.log.20151214

[00:00] <AndyEsser> Anyway, time for me to enter Standby Mode - I shall speak to you all tomorrow
[00:00] <AndyEsser> night
[00:00] <craag> night!
[00:03] <fsphil> return(0);
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[02:16] <Kam> Hi
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[06:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 0319 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
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[08:58] <AndyEsser> morning
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[08:59] <fsphil> g'morn
[08:59] <AndyEsser> fsphil: you sleep less than I do!
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[09:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03F5APQ_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=F5APQ_chase
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[09:10] <fsphil> student party go on late AndyEsser?
[09:11] <AndyEsser> heh, it was done when I went to bed
[09:11] <AndyEsser> but I ended up not being able to sleep anyway
[09:11] <AndyEsser> so pulled an all-nighter
[09:11] <AndyEsser> worked on improving my data recorder code
[09:11] <AndyEsser> UART stuff is now interrupt driven instead of constant polling
[09:12] <AndyEsser> and rather than just a single C file of prototype code, actually split it into a C++ framework I can apply to any of the AVR uCs
[09:16] <fsphil> like arduino? :)
[09:17] <AndyEsser> I dunno
[09:17] <AndyEsser> never used arduino
[09:17] <AndyEsser> However, I am allergic to 3rd party libraries ;) Will always try and do something myself before falling back to a library
[09:19] <mfa298> probably end up being a better version of arduino.
[09:19] <eroomde> how's the ssl-secured website going AndyEsser
[09:19] <AndyEsser> eroomde: are you trying to be funny about how trying to implement SSL myself would be a terrible idea?
[09:20] <eroomde> yes
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[09:20] <AndyEsser> eroomde: I don't write my own webserver, so I don't need to do that
[09:21] <AndyEsser> however, I have implemented SSL on sockets via the OpenSSL library because I realise that's something I don't want to f*ck up and it's not something I have any knowledge in, or have time to learn about
[09:21] <AndyEsser> My above statement about 3rd party libraries has the implied backing that I'm not a complete moron ;)
[09:21] <AndyEsser> just... a bit mental sometimes
[09:21] <AndyEsser> :P
[09:22] <craag> "because I realise that's something I don't want to f*ck up
[09:22] <craag> "
[09:22] <craag> should have used libressl then :P
[09:22] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:24] <mfa298> and as it's OpenBSD based it'll run on a 486, although probably fall over if you push a real workload at it.
[09:25] <AndyEsser> eurgh, End of Year accounts to do this week... how fun for me :(
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[10:11] <eroomde> i'm still upset by this independance day trailer
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[10:17] <realborg> there are surprisingly few publication on ionizing radiation at high altitude
[10:18] <eroomde> where are you looking? I'd have thought it would be reasonably well studied
[10:19] <realborg> me too
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[10:21] Nick change: bradfirj_ -> bradfirj
[10:21] <realborg> there is a calculator but no raw data http://jag.cami.jccbi.gov/cariprofile.asp
[10:28] <realborg> at least I now know that radiation on mars surface is about 28µSv/h while passengers in the concorde were exposed to about 13µSv/h
[10:32] <AndyEsser> eroomde: what's wrong with it? looks like it'll be a good film
[10:32] <eroomde> the first noise on the trailer is a han-zimmerman-esque horn
[10:32] Action: fsphil is more upset by the new turtles film
[10:32] <fsphil> trailer*
[10:32] <eroomde> suggesting the rest of it will be similarly imagination, creativity and thought free
[10:33] <eroomde> just a michael bay sploom blah whoosh lasers thing
[10:36] <AndyEsser> what's wrong with that? I'm not looking for a film like Independence Day to change my world view - I just want 1.5-2 hours of entertainment :P
[10:37] <eroomde> false dichotomies do not go down well here so be careful if you want to continue in this way
[10:37] <eroomde> there is space between changing world views and michael bay
[10:37] <AndyEsser> nonsense!
[10:37] <AndyEsser> :P
[10:39] <AndyEsser> Having said that, I do agree that there are perhaps too many movies that go for the cheap thrills of explosions and SFX where the subject matter could provide significant intellectual stimulation (even alongside "SPLOSSSION!!")
[10:41] <eroomde> it's a waste otherwise
[10:41] <eroomde> like Prometheus
[10:41] <eroomde> which must be about the most distressingly dissapointing missed opportunity in film making this decade
[10:42] <eroomde> given the money and the cast and the production team you'd have to real actively try hard to mess it up
[10:42] <eroomde> and yet they managed
[10:42] <realborg> I've seen better movies made from 1/100th of their budget
[10:43] <fsphil> prometheus :(
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[10:45] <fsphil> the running away scene was a nice metaphor for the entire film making process behind it
[10:45] <mfa298> I'm sure in some cases a limited budget helps as they can't just go for sfx followed by more sfx to make a film and someone actually has to think about how to make a good film
[10:46] <AndyEsser> mfa298: similar to older games console platform - the restricted resources forced creativity
[10:46] <AndyEsser> nowadays it's all about the GRAFIX!!
[10:46] <AndyEsser> fsphil: seriously... why didn't they run sideways?
[10:46] <fsphil> the hobbit films had more money and +10 years of effects development and managed to have worse special effects than the lotr films
[10:46] <AndyEsser> I fell asleep during the first Hobbit film and never bothered to go back to finish it and then watch the others
[10:47] <fsphil> smaug was great. the rest was meh
[10:47] <eroomde> lisp programmers are better because they can only use ( and )
[10:47] <eroomde> you see, the pattern is everywhere
[10:47] <AndyEsser> fsphil: maybe if he appeared earlier I wouldn't have fallen asleep :P
[10:47] <fsphil> yeah agreed
[10:48] <fsphil> should've stayed as two films. first one smaug, second one the big battle
[10:49] <fsphil> and none of the naff cgi orcs
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[10:53] <AndyEsser> http://www.nivnac.co.uk/files/HAPSD_NOVA8/HAPS-D_pan1_half.jpg <-- I've linked to this photo approximately 50 times in the last 2 weeks... really should put it in my favourites
[10:54] <Kam_> Hi Andy looks fantastic!
[10:54] <lz1dev> nice
[10:54] <Kam_> As
[10:54] <AndyEsser> FYI - not my pic
[10:54] <Kam_> :D
[10:54] <AndyEsser> It's eroomde's
[10:54] <AndyEsser> that's my 'goal'
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[10:55] <eroomde> it's CUSF's
[10:55] <Kam_> anyone from Northampton UK area?
[10:55] <eroomde> and doug ellison's
[10:55] <eroomde> Kam_: oxford here
[10:55] <eroomde> probably as close as you'll get on a monday morning
[10:55] <Kam_> I need some help on new international project
[10:55] <Kam_> Hi
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[10:55] <Kam_> Poland - UK
[10:56] <Kam_> We are just starting into HUB
[10:57] <eroomde> poland->UK or UK->Poland?
[10:58] <eroomde> or is the collaboration virtual rather than specifying balloon destinations
[10:58] <Kam_> We are based in Northampton... but we wish to make team in Poland and in the UK
[10:58] <Kam_> meetings, virtual etc
[10:58] <eroomde> I see
[10:59] <eroomde> well there are a lot of poles in hab
[10:59] <Kam_> nice
[10:59] <eroomde> it's the next bes hab country in europe after the uk
[10:59] <Kam_> of course ;)
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[11:00] <eroomde> so what do you want to do Kam_ in particular?
[11:01] <Kam_> <eroomde> at this moment we need to purchase transmiter and gps tracker
[11:02] <Kam_> maybe pi sky ... and set up the rest asap
[11:02] <Kam_> is there any chance to contact by phone <eroomde>?
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[11:03] <Kam_> we need to build the Pi In the Sky Kit with camera and transmit it back to us
[11:04] <eroomde> Kam_: i'd prefer IRC
[11:04] <eroomde> i'm not a huge fan of buying everything off the shelf and not making your own flight computer anyway
[11:04] <eroomde> so i'm not the person to ask if that's what you want to do
[11:04] <AndyEsser> DIY flight computer FTW
[11:05] <Kam_> of course not... that's is the fun about it
[11:06] <Kam_> but I'm not an engineer to build it and program in a 2 weeks
[11:06] <eroomde> most people who come here are not that
[11:06] <eroomde> it takes them a few months
[11:06] <eroomde> but they learn a lot
[11:08] <Kam_> we just need an experienced people to join the project... to show to a huge audience how it can be done...
[11:08] <Kam_> can say much on here...
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[11:09] <eroomde> can or can't?
[11:10] <Kam_> <eroomde> :) can
[11:11] <Kam_> we have the very basic gps system to track the ballon but I was thinking on Pi
[11:11] <mfa298> Getting a launch in 2 weeks might be a bit ambitions if that's what you need to do. In the UK at least the CAA aproval can take longer (at least 28 days on the application form I believe)
[11:13] <Kam_> the launch will be in Poland, thanks <mfa298>
[11:14] <mfa298> Poland may well have similar rules, so if you really have to launch in that time frame that's the first thing to look at.
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[11:16] <Kam_> <eroomde> is here around any hab shop we can go to?
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[11:17] <Kam_> <mfa298> 5 days before the launch ;)
[11:17] <eroomde> randomsolutions.co.uk
[11:17] <eroomde> for the balloon and parachute
[11:17] <eroomde> habsupplies.com for gps modules and radio modules
[11:17] <Kam_> thanks
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[11:20] <Kam_> let me call them
[11:21] <eroomde> they are not really manned
[11:21] <eroomde> i mean, try
[11:21] <eroomde> but it's a bloke called steve and a bloke called anthony and the stores are hobbies for them
[11:21] <eroomde> let me tell you this now just because you seem to be in a rush
[11:22] <eroomde> almost everyone who comes on here and says 'i need a shopping list RIGH NOW because i'm launching in two weeks' loses their payloads
[11:22] <eroomde> and deserve to, too, because they rush and cut corners and don't understand what they're doing
[11:23] <eroomde> Upu: might be worth saying on your front page thing that people should find Upu specifically in this channel
[11:23] <eroomde> otherwise it implies that this channel is support for habsupplies
[11:23] <eroomde> which of course it isn't
[11:24] <russss> the primary purpose of this channel is eroomde's monologues
[11:24] <eroomde> i think i have the highest monologue coefficient now, probably
[11:24] <eroomde> it used to be laurenceb
[11:25] <AndyEsser> The "Moore Factor"
[11:26] <AndyEsser> would be interesting to program one of the bots to work out a monologue factor, average number of 'unbroken' lines from a user per 24 hours averaged out or something :P
[11:26] <eroomde> i think someone did once
[11:26] <eroomde> it was laurence
[11:26] <AndyEsser> haha
[11:26] <eroomde> but that was almost a decade ago
[11:26] <mfa298> looks like it's still Laurenceb
[11:27] <mfa298> LaurenceB talks to him/herself a lot. He/She wrote over 5 lines in a row 1868 times!
[11:27] <mfa298> Another lonely one was eroomde, who managed to hit 1456 times.
[11:27] <fsphil> http://habhub.org/zeusbot/pisg.html
[11:27] <eroomde> i'm still ontop despite not making a single uterance in here for about 6 weeks a while ago
[11:28] <eroomde> darkside's random quote is excellent
[11:28] <eroomde> reads like an epitaph
[11:28] <eroomde> 'died of misadventure'
[11:28] <Darkside_> lol
[11:28] <Darkside_> bahaha
[11:29] <eroomde> 1156611 words
[11:29] <eroomde> how many novels or textbooks is that
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[11:31] <mfa298> could be interesting to see a year by year version of the pisg report
[11:31] <realborg> fun fact: radiation on mars surface / hellas planitia would be as bad as flying concorde
[11:32] <eroomde> really?
[11:32] <eroomde> that sounds improbable
[11:32] <fsphil> neither is possible at the moment
[11:32] <AndyEsser> fsphil: ooo
[11:32] <AndyEsser> too soon
[11:32] <Darkside_> haha
[11:32] <realborg> eroomde, all that talk got me wondering and I just did the math
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[11:34] <Kam_> <eroomde> thanks for the advice. Not to worry... we not are going to lose our load ;)
[11:34] <fsphil> confidence eh
[11:35] <Kam_> (I mean in our silly way) that's why we are taking extra steps...
[11:35] <UpuWork> noted eroomde
[11:36] <mfa298> I thought there was only one gaurenteed way to not lose your payload - don't launch it!
[11:36] <fsphil> or set it down on my desk
[11:36] <fsphil> I've lost things for weeks there
[11:37] <AndyEsser> I dropped a capacitor on the carpet last night
[11:37] <AndyEsser> spent 10 mins looking for it
[11:37] <AndyEsser> the hoover will find it eventually
[11:37] <AndyEsser> at least the carpet will be decoupled :)
[11:37] <Darkside_> once a SMD component goes 'ping', all hope is lost
[11:37] <fsphil> I should run a magnet over my carpet sometime
[11:38] <Kam_> thanks for now... speak soon!
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[11:40] <eroomde> realborg: heh, looks like you're about right
[11:40] <realborg> eroomde, 15km altitude = 13µSv/h, mars rover measured 28µSv/hour, pressure in hellas planitia is about twice meaning twice the atmospheric cover
[11:41] <eroomde> for concorde flying over the north pole anyway
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[11:44] <fsphil> that crater is 7.1km deep. impressive
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[11:45] <realborg> eroomde, radiation at 18km should be even more than 13µSv - not even flying over the pole
[11:45] <gonzo_> once you have misplaced an smd cap, even on the desk, you may as well write it off. As there is no visual way of IDing that you have found th eright one
[11:45] <gonzo_> right
[11:46] <realborg> gonzo_, measuring is not an option?
[11:46] <gonzo_> I've almost had that. One pinged and I found it, then found another and another.....
[11:47] <gonzo_> yep it can be. RF stuff is more difficult though as it's only a few pf
[11:47] <gonzo_> and measuring that accuratly is a pain
[11:47] <gonzo_> at least R's you can read with an eye glass
[11:50] <SA6BSS-Mike> : lost in woods after chasing a wx balloon http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/dec/13/former-marine-hiker-lost-rockhouse-canyon/
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[11:56] <gonzo_> that's a slightly more unusual one for dave's HAB fail list. 'Not having survival training' !
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[11:57] <Flutterbat> lured away by a nasty swamp balloon ghost
[11:58] <gonzo_> I have actually dome a course, for fun. And so dissapointed that they didn't cover HAB recovery as a senario!
[11:58] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: put it on the feedback form :P
[11:59] <gonzo_> actually, if he'd found the balloon he would have been in better shape. Batteries to make a fire and a bright orange chute as a rescue sign
[12:00] <gonzo_> and if hungry enough he could have eated the sonde
[12:00] <adamgreig> that's why I always pack some sandwiches and whisky in my habs
[12:01] <eroomde> i pack those in my bag
[12:01] <gonzo_> the airborne equiv of a brandy barrel and a st.bernard dig
[12:01] <gonzo_> dog
[12:01] <eroomde> insurance against not finding the hab
[12:01] <adamgreig> i keep some in the bag too
[12:01] <adamgreig> you should see how much whisky i took to the desert for martlet 2
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[12:01] <adamgreig> put the tattered remains of that into a display cabinet in the new dyson centre this morning, hah
[12:02] <gonzo_> you should be so gorged on bacon butties that you could go without food for months
[12:02] <gonzo_> tattered remains of martlet, or the wiskey?
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[12:03] <gonzo_> whisky even
[12:03] <adamgreig> there weren't any remains of the whisky
[12:03] <gonzo_> there were some tattered remains though afterwards
[12:03] <adamgreig> for sure
[12:03] <eroomde> i would love to go and have a trek around that bit of scotland again
[12:03] <eroomde> looking for martlet 1 upper stage
[12:04] <adamgreig> that would be great. no pressure to find it anyway so you can just have a nice walk and if you stumble on some carbon fibre...
[12:04] <eroomde> yeah
[12:04] <adamgreig> otherwise, oh well, hunting lodge and whisky and food
[12:04] <eroomde> maybe do another big range with a highly prepped rocket that you can launch on day 1
[12:04] <eroomde> then spend the next 4 days trekking about the place
[12:04] <fsphil> it could be quite well covered by now
[12:04] <eroomde> by what?
[12:04] <adamgreig> if they ever organise another big range..
[12:05] <eroomde> yeah indeed
[12:05] <fsphil> plant life?
[12:05] <eroomde> stuff doesn't grown that much or that fast up there, i don't think
[12:05] <fsphil> yeah depends how high up it landed
[12:05] <eroomde> http://scottishrockets.com/
[12:05] <eroomde> not promising
[12:05] <fsphil> lol
[12:06] <AndyEsser> interesting header image
[12:08] <AndyEsser> Most Used Words: #2 about 45800 AndyEsser
[12:08] <AndyEsser> err... that's fairly impressive for having only been here in 2 weeks or so
[12:09] <adamgreig> that's saying "about" has been used 45k times, most recently by you
[12:09] <adamgreig> not that you've said "about" 45k times, that would be quite something
[12:09] <AndyEsser> o derp
[12:09] <adamgreig> I'm pleased that "launch" is on the list
[12:09] <AndyEsser> hahaha
[12:09] <eroomde> you'd be about to get kicked for spam
[12:09] <adamgreig> and enjoy that we have "woulda coulda shoulda" in order
[12:09] <eroomde> yes the most used words list is almost a hab poem
[12:09] <eroomde> would should could launch, but, still
[12:09] <eroomde> or whatever it is
[12:09] <adamgreig> haha yep
[12:10] <AndyEsser> It's a brilliant insight into thought patterns about HAB launches :)
[12:10] <AndyEsser> Think... would.... could... should... really?... LAUNCH!... Right... Still?!
[12:10] <AndyEsser> also works for debugging code :)
[12:11] <fsphil> read by William Shatner
[12:11] <AndyEsser> "dongs also makes sailors blush, 1.9% of the time."
[12:11] <AndyEsser> fsphil: HA!
[12:12] <AndyEsser> Hmm, toyed with the idea of leaving my breadboard plugged into my home PC and remotely writing code and testing it
[12:12] <AndyEsser> but then imagined it all starting a fire
[12:13] <adamgreig> hard to imagine accidentally starting a fire with it
[12:13] <adamgreig> unless you use nichrome wire for all your interconnects and leave it on a pile of hay or something
[12:14] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: I managed to set light to a building whilst it was raining, with a cigarette end...
[12:15] <adamgreig> setting fire to something by starting with something that is on fire is perhaps easier
[12:15] <adamgreig> maybe stick to helium for your first launch or two though eh ;)
[12:19] <gonzo_> raining with cigarette ends? Sounds like a modern day biblical occurance
[12:42] <AndyEsser> http://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2015/12/north-carolina-citizenry-defeat-pernicious-big-solar-plan-to-suck-up-the-sun/ *facedesk*
[12:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-12 after 0318 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-12
[12:58] <AndyEsser> Quick question to the people that have used AVR's here
[12:58] <AndyEsser> lets say I have an AVR that just does one thing, reads the GPS and sends it out via the NTX
[12:59] <AndyEsser> I could key the reading of the GPS NMEA string to an interrupt driven by the 1s timepulse pin on a GPS module (if it has it)
[12:59] <AndyEsser> so basically, it only ever does anything when that interrupt fires
[12:59] <AndyEsser> what would my int main() look like?
[12:59] <AndyEsser> just a while(1) {}; loop?
[13:00] <AndyEsser> (I appreciate in reality as little processing should be in interrupts as possible, and would likely just set a "Ready to receive GPS flag"
[13:00] <AndyEsser> )
[13:02] <craag> So there's an interrupt that can fire when you've got data waiting in the uart input buffer
[13:02] <AndyEsser> Yea, already have that one working
[13:02] <craag> k
[13:02] <AndyEsser> suggesting I just read the char when it comes in
[13:02] <AndyEsser> stick it in a buffer
[13:02] <craag> so yes you can while(1)
[13:02] <AndyEsser> then once every n process that buffer and TX?
[13:03] <craag> your rtty tx will be what takes the most time
[13:03] <AndyEsser> ok, so process that in the 'main loop' and just use the UART interrupt to get the data from the GPS?
[13:03] <craag> so what most of us do, is once the rtty tx has finished, update the rtty string with the latest data from the nmea, and start the rtty again
[13:04] <craag> you can do it all in interrupts if you use timer interrupts to send the rtty
[13:04] <AndyEsser> Yea, had thought of doing something like that
[13:04] <AndyEsser> just the while(1) {} busy-waiting loop seemed nasty ;)
[13:04] <craag> yeah so really you want to power down the core
[13:04] <craag> put it in a low power mode where it'll wake up for the interrupts
[13:04] <AndyEsser> So there is a power mdoe that wakes up on int?
[13:05] <AndyEsser> ah cool
[13:05] <craag> there are several levels
[13:05] Action: AndyEsser goes and browses datasheet again
[13:05] <craag> :)
[13:05] <craag> you can also power down individual peripherals that you don't need
[13:06] <adamgreig> nothing in particular wrong with that while(1); loop though really
[13:06] <adamgreig> it is _better_ to use the low power mode but it's not the end of the world
[13:06] <adamgreig> putting all your code in interrupts has its own problems
[13:07] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: yea, which is why I also thought about just using the interrupts to toggle 'flags' and read data if required
[13:07] <zyp> any modern architecture got a "wait for interrupt" mechanism that halts the cpu until the next interrupt arrives
[13:07] <AndyEsser> (ie you have to read the UART buffer in the UART RX interrupt otherwise it doesn't resume)
[13:08] <zyp> so you can do while() { if(something_to_do) { do_it(); } else { wait_for_interrupt(); }}
[13:08] <AndyEsser> o0o, sort of a hybrid
[13:09] <AndyEsser> only really do any processing after an interrupt wakes it up
[13:09] <adamgreig> well
[13:09] <zyp> yes, this is how most larger systems work
[13:09] <adamgreig> depends what wait_for_interrupt() does
[13:09] <adamgreig> hopefully it's tatramount to sleeping until an interrupt
[13:09] <adamgreig> but you could implement it as just a while loop...
[13:09] <fsphil> avr doesn't have a wait-for-interrupt instruction
[13:09] <adamgreig> and then it's the same busy delay
[13:09] <zyp> when your x86 computer is not 100% busy, it's because it's waiting for an interrupt
[13:10] <zyp> adamgreig, I'm referring to something like a wfi-instruction
[13:10] <zyp> on ARM it's called wfi at least
[13:10] <fsphil> actually, SLEEP
[13:10] <zyp> I think it might be the same on AVR
[13:10] <zyp> and sleep on x86 if memory serves me right
[13:11] <fsphil> so yeah, it can be configured then loop with SLEEP
[13:11] <AndyEsser> fsphil: yea, was thinking sticking a SLEEP() in where that wait_for_interrupt() bit was :)
[13:11] <fsphil> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__avr__sleep.html
[13:12] <fsphil> possibly won't save you that much
[13:12] <fsphil> esp. compared with the gps and radio modules
[13:12] <AndyEsser> every little helps ;)
[13:13] <adamgreig> eh
[13:13] <AndyEsser> Tesco HAB
[13:13] <fsphil> not if it creates a whole new area for your program to fail :)
[13:13] <adamgreig> if your GPS is using 50mA to stay running and your radio is using 100mA to transmit
[13:13] <adamgreig> and your AVR is using 5mA or something...
[13:13] <zyp> fsphil, failing is also learning, and isn't that what this hobby is about?
[13:13] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: well yea, true ;)
[13:13] <adamgreig> still as zyp says it's worth learning about
[13:13] <AndyEsser> fsphil: software failure I can handle - been doing that for ~20 years
[13:13] <adamgreig> and feels better, right ;)
[13:14] <fsphil> hah
[13:14] <AndyEsser> hardware failure is still my biggest concern ;)
[13:14] <fsphil> just make sure you setup a timer interrupt, incase your gps stops sending data
[13:14] <AndyEsser> ah good plan
[13:14] <fsphil> so you can at least transmit "no gps"
[13:14] <AndyEsser> Yea, makes sense
[13:19] <eroomde> when testing against all inputs, remember that no input is an input
[13:24] <AndyEsser> come again?
[13:27] <craag> *remember that 'no input' is a possible input
[13:28] <AndyEsser> In terms of it being a tri-state HIGH/LOW/NONE?
[13:28] <craag> thinking on a higher level
[13:28] <craag> ie. in terms of what data the gps gives
[13:28] <craag> you
[13:28] <craag> 'no data' is possible
[13:28] <AndyEsser> ah
[13:29] <craag> ie absolutely nothing (wire has broken off)
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[13:29] <AndyEsser> Yep, got it now - thanks
[13:30] <eroomde> oxhack mailing list has got its first huge thread on gender and transgender issues
[13:30] <eroomde> oh wrong window
[13:30] <eroomde> this is the wrong channel for that discussion
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[13:43] <gonzo_> choice of microcontroler will people more worked up on here
[13:43] <eroomde> yeah
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[13:57] <AndyEsser> AVR328p 4 Lyf
[13:57] Action: AndyEsser must point out that he has not used an other microcontroller in recent memory and therefore can not claim that the AVR 328p is the best, indeed he suspects there are many better microcontrollers available
[13:58] <eroomde> it's merely fine
[13:58] <eroomde> nice enough
[13:58] <eroomde> flown many a hab to great success
[13:58] <AndyEsser> if it gets the job done for my 1st or 2nd launch I'll be happy :)
[13:58] <fsphil> you can fit it all in your head in one go
[13:58] <fsphil> can't say the same for arm chips :)
[13:58] <zyp> AVR is a pretty dated architecture by now
[13:58] <AndyEsser> I would like to "move up" to an ARM or PIC32
[13:58] <adamgreig> yea but it costs six times as much as an arm chip that has about 100 times the resources and capability
[13:58] <AndyEsser> but the AVR will do for now :)
[13:58] <eroomde> yep, but it still works, which is nice
[13:59] <zyp> adamgreig, that too
[13:59] <adamgreig> horses for courses
[13:59] <AndyEsser> how much are the arm chips in question?!
[13:59] <adamgreig> like 40p on up
[13:59] <fsphil> the avr is a great starting point
[13:59] <fsphil> though arduino can get in the way for a lot of people
[13:59] <eroomde> at our scale it literally doesn't matter in the least
[14:00] <adamgreig> hmm idk
[14:00] <adamgreig> for one off HABs with cameras, yes
[14:00] <eroomde> £3 vs £2 is a thing in mass production, for hobby habbing it matters not a sausage
[14:00] <adamgreig> if you wanted to do a bunch of pico balloons that you never see again
[14:00] <adamgreig> even 10-off it makes a difference
[14:00] <eroomde> then i still submit £3 vs £2 doesn't matter in the least
[14:00] <eroomde> it makes £10 difference
[14:00] <adamgreig> 50p vs £3 though..
[14:00] <adamgreig> admittedly you get much bigger differences from choice of GPS and radio
[14:00] <eroomde> which arm are you flying on a hab that costs 50p?
[14:01] <realborg> one day you will be able to order a ready-to-fly hab-kit from a hobby store
[14:01] <eroomde> realborg: 1) please just go away
[14:01] <eroomde> 2) you already can
[14:01] <eroomde> 3) please just go away
[14:02] <adamgreig> hmm ok 89p for qty-1 retail price :p
[14:02] <adamgreig> but most of the stm32f0 series
[14:02] <eroomde> i thought they were prcier
[14:02] <eroomde> i've seen the lpc810 for like 69p
[14:02] <adamgreig> yea
[14:02] <eroomde> in singe units iirc
[14:02] <eroomde> but the pincount is a bit wee really
[14:02] <adamgreig> you can get the stm32f030 and f070 for <£1 single units
[14:02] <adamgreig> in 32lqfp
[14:04] <adamgreig> regardless you're still right, the price isn't really the reason to pick an ARM over an AVR for hobby levels
[14:04] <adamgreig> and it's definitely a nice microcontroller to get started on
[14:04] <adamgreig> trying to pick up an stm32 from scratch is probably not much fun
[14:05] <eroomde> indeed
[14:05] <realborg> eroomde, ad 1) + 3) I would accept a ticket to mars ;)
[14:05] <eroomde> although a microcontrollers-from-scratch course might aswell start anywhere
[14:05] <zyp> I disagree
[14:05] <adamgreig> so it depends on background
[14:05] <zyp> IMO cortex-m is a way better platform to start on
[14:05] <adamgreig> the stm32 means writing C is easier imo
[14:05] <zyp> since you get full debugging on anything
[14:06] <eroomde> realborg: sorry if that was harsh. It's just all you seem to do is come out with really vague futurology-esque stuff about nothing in particular
[14:06] <adamgreig> loads of ram and flash and stack space and the address space is simple and things are quite nice
[14:06] <zyp> instead of coding in the blind
[14:06] <adamgreig> debugging is nice but you can debug AVRs :P
[14:06] <eroomde> the debugging is a reason to start with cortex m0 over avr, i agree
[14:06] <eroomde> and the memory mapping
[14:06] <adamgreig> you can get away with a lot more
[14:06] <adamgreig> you don't need to cycle count or worry about how big your ints are and stuff
[14:06] <fsphil> I need to learn to love gdb
[14:07] <zyp> adamgreig, there's an avrice hooked up right next to me, so I'm fully aware
[14:07] <eroomde> i think just learning to use it is as much as can be expected
[14:07] <adamgreig> but a lot of those things are classic fun embedded problems, so maybe worth having to learn...
[14:07] <zyp> but the tools for that feels outright shitty after being used to cortex-m tools
[14:07] <adamgreig> yea that's fair
[14:08] <adamgreig> cortex-m debug is lovely
[14:08] <eroomde> there isn't however, as far as a i know, a free cortex simulator
[14:08] <eroomde> because of some copyright/licensing term held by arm
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[14:08] <zyp> qemu have some cortex-m support
[14:08] <fsphil> that's a bit rude
[14:09] Nick change: gary -> Guest2712
[14:09] <zyp> mostly based on some TI devboards, last I checked
[14:09] <zyp> I think there were a fork that supported some stm32 periphs as well
[14:09] <eroomde> tbh implementing a vm from the instruction set wouldn't be a massive job
[14:10] <eroomde> i feel like i've had this idea before
[14:10] <eroomde> for a micrcontroller course at university
[14:10] <fsphil> it's implementing all the peripherals where things get interesting
[14:10] <adamgreig> yea
[14:10] <adamgreig> peripherals on something like an avr or 8051 are not so bad
[14:10] <eroomde> merging microcontroller labs and software labs by writing an interpeter for a microcontroller than parses assembly files
[14:10] <adamgreig> the standard STM32 or LPC peripherals are intense
[14:10] <eroomde> yes they'd be a pig
[14:11] <adamgreig> downside to 32 bit memory bus is you get 32 bit peripheral control registers
[14:11] <zyp> adamgreig, assuming you need it to be feature complete
[14:11] <eroomde> you'd almost be better dropping into verilog
[14:11] <adamgreig> AVR fits all the options they need into one or two 8bit regs
[14:11] <adamgreig> STM32 uses as many registers but each one is 4 times bigger :P
[14:11] <eroomde> zyp: the peripherlas on the stms seem to have so many corner cases, i've found, that i'd worry about incomplete implementations just lying to me
[14:11] <zyp> haha, true
[14:12] <zyp> I did I2C master on AVR last week, shit just works
[14:12] <eroomde> most of my debugging with stms is to do with peripheral config, missing some silly bit in a register that seems non-obvious to me
[14:12] <zyp> which is good, because avr-gcc doesn't, so I'm glad I don't have to debug it
[14:12] <eroomde> like a single grub screw in the wrong place inside a huge clock mechanism
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[14:13] <adamgreig> zyp: yea but half of that is i2cv1 in the stm32f1/4 being total shit
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/h1SsH very unapproved balloon launch
[14:13] <zyp> adamgreig, yep
[14:13] <zyp> I haven't needed to do I2C on a v2 chip yet
[14:13] <zyp> so I've only got v1 experiences
[14:14] <adamgreig> it's soooo much better
[14:14] <adamgreig> wellllll
[14:14] <adamgreig> you have to generate the most inane timing settings
[14:14] <adamgreig> and they only have some awful excel spreadsheet that wouldn't run in libreoffice
[14:14] <adamgreig> the rest is much better
[14:14] <zyp> heh
[14:14] <eroomde> i've sort of given up with i2c
[14:14] <adamgreig> (maybe they have improved that since but i had to do it on a plane and it was truly awful)
[14:14] <eroomde> unless it can't be avoided
[14:14] <adamgreig> i2c is the worst bus
[14:14] <zyp> sometimes you don't have a choice
[14:15] <adamgreig> alas
[14:15] <eroomde> http://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/stm32f070f6p6/mcu-32bit-cortex-m0-48mhz-tssop/dp/2488284
[14:15] <eroomde> that's not bad
[14:15] <eroomde> usb too
[14:15] <adamgreig> good huh
[14:15] <zyp> on f070?
[14:15] <adamgreig> a lot (maybe that one) of the stm32s have crystal-less USB
[14:15] <zyp> is that a reduced f072?
[14:15] <eroomde> 'sometimes... you don't have a choice' [HANS ZIMMER HORN BLAST]
[14:15] <zyp> yeah, f072 does
[14:15] <adamgreig> where they have a PLL lock to the 1ms USB packets to generate the 48MHz clock
[14:15] <eroomde> i2c The Fallen
[14:15] <adamgreig> so you don't even need a crystal at all
[14:15] <russss> neat
[14:16] <adamgreig> whereas normally you need quite a good crystal for USB, can't rely on internal oscillators
[14:16] <zyp> adamgreig, I've done that with a stm32l052
[14:16] <adamgreig> yea
[14:16] <adamgreig> so this means your USB device can be amazingly cheap which is cool
[14:16] <zyp> hang on
[14:16] <adamgreig> i bet the ftdi chip does something similar since it doesn't have an external crystal either (but maybe it just has a good factory-trimmed onboard oscillator)
[14:17] <zyp> also amazingly small
[14:17] <zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/f/NjEyT.JPG
[14:17] <adamgreig> yea
[14:17] <fsphil> cute
[14:17] <adamgreig> unless you use the world's largest ESD diode thing?
[14:17] <adamgreig> what is that on the right :P
[14:17] <zyp> rs485
[14:17] <adamgreig> aah ok
[14:17] <eroomde> i thought you'd made a keylogger or something :)
[14:17] <adamgreig> not a USB thing on the right then?
[14:18] <fsphil> programmer on the bottom?
[14:18] <eroomde> looks it
[14:18] <adamgreig> yea it's the tagconnect
[14:18] <adamgreig> with swo wired up?
[14:18] <zyp> it's JVS, which is a bus based on RS485 with usb connectors specified as the standard connection interface
[14:18] <adamgreig> oh god why would you do that
[14:18] <zyp> no swo on M0+
[14:19] <adamgreig> mm
[14:19] <adamgreig> which is why I was curious :P but I guess actually I forgot which pin is vcc
[14:19] <zyp> SWO is the bottom left pin, I guess
[14:19] <adamgreig> yea
[14:19] <zyp> right*
[14:19] <zyp> and yeah, tag connect is nice
[14:20] <zyp> kinda expensive, but easy to justify as soon as you're doing any kind of volumes
[14:20] <adamgreig> yea
[14:20] <adamgreig> or need the space saving
[14:20] <zyp> and I've done 600 or so of another project by now
[14:20] <adamgreig> i have it on something else but it's annoying for doing actual development
[14:21] <adamgreig> well
[14:21] <zyp> get the clip
[14:21] <adamgreig> I have the no legs version and a bunch of projects where the underside isn't available
[14:21] <eroomde> there's a locking one for debug right?
[14:21] <zyp> it works until you lose it
[14:21] <adamgreig> so I have five of the clips (left)
[14:21] <adamgreig> haha yea
[14:21] <adamgreig> eroomde: yes, but it's bigger (has legs, needs holes in pcb)
[14:21] <eroomde> right
[14:21] <adamgreig> instead you can use these clips that go on the underside of the pcb
[14:21] <adamgreig> and clamp onto the through-pins in the no-leg cable
[14:21] <adamgreig> which works quite well too
[14:21] <zyp> I bought one, lost it, bought another three, misplaced the bag of those before I even started using them
[14:22] <adamgreig> but you need to be able to access the underside of the PCB in that case, which is a problem if you have a battery connector or something on the bottom
[14:22] <zyp> the ones with legs are silly, the holes waste a lot of space
[14:22] <adamgreig> yea exactly
[14:22] <zyp> makes routing around it a hassle
[14:22] <adamgreig> if you have the board space i'd just go with a normal header for development
[14:22] <adamgreig> tc is super duper nice for mass programming a bunch or in-the-field stuff
[14:22] <adamgreig> http://www.tag-connect.com/TC2030-CTX fsphil
[14:23] <zyp> I found that a small piece of perfboard works in place of a clip when you can't find it :)
[14:23] <adamgreig> hehe
[14:23] <adamgreig> http://www.tag-connect.com/TC2030-CTX-NL is no-legs
[14:23] <adamgreig> zyp: I just keep the clips with the cable in a little baggie, so far so good
[14:23] <adamgreig> back on topic though, I'm still upset someone uses USB plugs and sockets as a standard for RS485
[14:23] <adamgreig> that's gross!
[14:23] <zyp> I think I found all four again when I cleaned up the place I just moved out of
[14:24] <zyp> so now it all depends on me being able to remember which moving box I put them into ;)
[14:24] <adamgreig> hehe
[14:25] <fsphil> hah, "plug of nails"
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[14:31] <fsphil> zyp: have you had problems with those traces very near the edge?
[14:32] <fsphil> doesn't look to me much margin for error
[14:33] <zyp> not much, but enough
[14:34] <zyp> traces or just ground poor doesn't matter, the ground poor is not supposed to be exposed at the edge either
[14:34] <zyp> pour*
[14:35] <zyp> so if your fab doesn't handle that properly, I suggest you find a better one :)
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[14:44] <fsphil> mm
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[15:07] <AndyEsser> anyone every attempted to cushion a landing with inflatable balloons (similar to Mars rovers descents)?
[15:08] <eroomde> no
[15:08] <eroomde> why?
[15:08] <eroomde> you shouldn't be coming in at a velocity that would require airbags
[15:08] <AndyEsser> just coming up with ideas of cool stuff to maybe try :)
[15:09] <eroomde> fly something 1st
[15:09] <eroomde> ideas can be for 2nd system
[15:09] <AndyEsser> Fine!
[15:09] Action: AndyEsser stomps feet
[15:09] <AndyEsser> :P
[15:09] <eroomde> 2nd system syndrome is allowable and fun in this hobby
[15:09] <AndyEsser> but....
[15:09] <eroomde> but you're good enough at engineering to not be one of the perennial reckonners
[15:10] <eroomde> 'i reckon what you should do is...' and never actually making anything
[15:10] <eroomde> we get a fair few of them here
[15:10] <AndyEsser> You're basing this on data that's 10 years old :P
[15:10] <eroomde> you made stuff then
[15:11] <eroomde> i'm assuming you still do now!
[15:11] <AndyEsser> never finished anything :(
[15:11] <eroomde> you went from idea to finished PCB in a day
[15:11] <AndyEsser> I did?
[15:11] <eroomde> those were the glorious days of dt
[15:11] <eroomde> when afternoons felt like a long time
[15:11] <AndyEsser> good times
[15:11] <AndyEsser> :)
[15:11] <eroomde> well i did
[15:11] <eroomde> so i'm assuming you did too
[15:11] <AndyEsser> I typically went from
[15:11] <AndyEsser> idea to 4-5 PCB's
[15:11] <AndyEsser> and blowing power supplies ;)
[15:11] <AndyEsser> prototyping was for boring people :P
[15:12] <eroomde> the pcbs were prororypes
[15:12] <eroomde> prototypes*
[15:12] <AndyEsser> I still can't believe I used an old PC PSU running from mains to get -12v instead of just.. y'know... arranging some batteries
[15:14] <eroomde> nowadfays i'm a fan of those little metal-tinned integrated, isolated dc-dc converters
[15:14] <eroomde> for bipolar supplies
[15:14] <eroomde> typically you can get +/- 15V
[15:14] <AndyEsser> that seems much more sensible :)
[15:14] <eroomde> which i then clean and filter and drop to +/- 10V with a linear regulator stage
[15:14] <eroomde> and you have quite a nice isolated analog front end for instrumentation
[15:19] <AndyEsser> http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Murata/NMJ0515SC/?qs=73XVGzxLSDXn9oV5nylBMQ%3d%3d
[15:19] <AndyEsser> something like this?
[15:19] <eroomde> yeah
[15:19] <eroomde> though i ususally need more power
[15:20] <eroomde> i'll find what i used on the most recent thing
[15:20] <AndyEsser> well for the moment at least, I don't need -v so should be able to just get away with a standard regulator
[15:21] <eroomde> http://uk.farnell.com/tracopower/ten-8-2423wi/dc-dc-wide-ip-8w--15v-0-26a/dp/1772192?ost=1772192&selectedCategoryId=&categoryName=All+Categories&categoryNameResp=All+Categories
[15:21] <eroomde> yeah def
[15:21] <eroomde> this isn't for hab
[15:22] <eroomde> well it could be of course, but not for a basic gps+radio flight
[15:22] <eroomde> i think the price has gone up a bit since i last used them
[15:24] <AndyEsser> speaking of basic flights
[15:24] <AndyEsser> having a camera/CCD sensor attached
[15:24] <AndyEsser> how are these normally queried? is it pixel at a time?
[15:24] <eroomde> most people just fly cameras
[15:24] <eroomde> as separate things
[15:24] <eroomde> googgle the chdk scripting system for canon cameras
[15:25] <eroomde> if you want to interface a camera to a microcontroller, that's a separate kettle of fish. some do jpeg encoding onboard and blast the binary result over serial
[15:25] <eroomde> some you'll have to read raw (usually one line of pixels at a time)
[15:26] <AndyEsser> hmm, using a fully built camera seems a bit... overkill
[15:26] <eroomde> to you
[15:26] <eroomde> but you haven't built anything yet
[15:26] <eroomde> sorry if i keep hammering this home
[15:27] <eroomde> if you know what you're doing enough you'll just grab a random camera module and optionally some external ram for your micro and do it anyway (see fsphil's ssdv work). if you don't, you don't want to be attempting this for a first flight.
[15:27] <AndyEsser> no no - I get what you're saying :)
[15:28] <eroomde> phil sent pictures down with an 8-bit avr
[15:29] <eroomde> the same stuff has gone into the ssdv feature of the Pi in the Sky board
[15:29] <eroomde> obviously the pi has way more resources to play with jpegs onboard
[15:29] <AndyEsser> yea
[15:29] <AndyEsser> tbh I would likely just save the images as RAW or BMP format onto an SDCARD, and not worry about JPEG processing
[15:29] <AndyEsser> storage is cheap
[15:29] <AndyEsser> processing isn't
[15:29] <AndyEsser> But yea... not for launch 1
[15:30] <fsphil> if you have storage, jpeg is easy
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[15:30] <fsphil> lack of ram is the killer
[15:30] <AndyEsser> my goal is to get something to launch... and if it does, be interesting to see how high I can reach, and recover :)
[15:30] <eroomde> if you're just saving pixel values to memory and not doing anything with them, why is a separate camera overkill?
[15:30] <eroomde> it's doing exactly what you want
[15:30] <eroomde> in a way that doesn't involve a large amount of additional engineering for you
[15:31] <AndyEsser> but would typically involve a big chunk of weight and power
[15:31] <AndyEsser> also... lack of DIY feeling :)
[15:31] <eroomde> whether or not you put the pixel values through a microcontroller or not first doesn't change the weight of the lens
[15:31] <eroomde> or the focus mechanism
[15:31] <eroomde> or the exposure meter
[15:31] <eroomde> or the sd card
[15:31] <eroomde> or the batteries
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[15:31] <eroomde> a camera is just all of that, packaged
[15:32] <AndyEsser> hmm
[15:32] <eroomde> you'll get much better quality photos with a semi-decent point+shoot camera anyway
[15:32] <eroomde> rather than a several-generations-old mobile phone webcam thing
[15:34] <fsphil> I've flown a few cheap canon cameras. if you're not transmitting, definitly the way to go
[15:34] <AndyEsser> I might even have an old (2 year) point+shoot type thing lying around
[15:34] <fsphil> they can be programmed/scripted to do auto shooting
[15:35] <fsphil> they'll certainly give a better quality than most cameras that will interface with a microcontroller
[15:35] <Chimpusmaximus> Worse case if you can;t remote shutter or use the canon hack a servo is a simple solution. I had to go that route when my planned camera stopped working with 1 day to go.
[15:35] <eroomde> or you can do a soft uart through the usb 5v line with chdk
[15:35] <eroomde> which is hackety in a rather splendid way
[15:37] <Chimpusmaximus> :-)
[15:37] <eroomde> instead of a servo though, you can just solder a mosfet across the shutter button
[15:37] <eroomde> to make an electronic solution
[15:38] <AndyEsser> Yea, I was thinking a servo seems overkill :)
[15:39] <Chimpusmaximus> Depends how much time you have and the camera :-)
[15:39] <eroomde> true that
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[15:41] <Chimpusmaximus> I'm not sure i was so willing on the RX100
[15:44] <adamgreig> you flew an rx100 with a servo to push buttons?
[15:46] <Chimpusmaximus> yeah, was going to be a mkiii version of it that supported an external trigger. Had it all sorted with a PITS providing camera control as well.
[15:46] <adamgreig> jeez
[15:46] <adamgreig> yea i have an rx100 mk3
[15:46] <Chimpusmaximus> then 1 day to go the mkiii would no switch on..dead so back up plan was a servo on a mki as it did not support any type of remote trigger
[15:46] <adamgreig> not sure i'd wanna fly it
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[15:46] <adamgreig> lot of camera to lose
[15:46] <eroomde> i might fly my x100 when i get the replacement
[15:47] <chris_99> fuji x100?
[15:47] <eroomde> yes
[15:47] <adamgreig> are the photos much better? it's all infinite focus and a bit of motion blur
[15:50] <Chimpusmaximus> https://goo.gl/photos/773pCvrEkRw4KQmJ8 I was happy with them
[15:51] <Chimpusmaximus> Took a bit as chrome crashed out
[15:53] <fsphil> I want to fly with a zoom lense some day, pointing down. just see what random pictures of stuff on the ground it gets
[15:53] <chris_99> cool Chimpusmaximus
[15:54] <AndyEsser> Chimpusmaximus: those are some awesome photos
[15:54] <chris_99> i'm just wondering, say you correct for lens distortion in all photos, could you determine the height from the curvature of the earth it sees?
[15:54] <fsphil> neat cloud cover Chimpusmaximus
[15:54] <Chimpusmaximus> Thanks, managed to make out a fair bit. Could track the Thames and found the dome etc.
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fuji-HS30EXR-Fujifilm-Finepix-Bridge-Digital-Camera-16MP-30x-Optical-Zoom-/181958368216?hash=item2a5d905bd8:g:iGYAAOSw8-tWaqtv
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> that's pretty cheap indeed
[15:55] <Chimpusmaximus> 1hr earlier and cloud cover was a lot less
[15:55] <chris_99> mmm
[15:56] <AndyEsser> Chimpusmaximus: what altitude did you hit?
[15:56] <fsphil> sweet, http://i.imgur.com/nQtuCeM.jpg
[15:57] <adamgreig> chris_99: if you correct for lens distortions you'll find the earth not very curved at all
[15:57] <chris_99> ah heh
[15:57] <chris_99> even at 30km?
[15:57] <Chimpusmaximus> 33km if I recall. The photos stop before that as servo I think gave up. Started working again on way down but camera had auto powered off by then
[15:57] <adamgreig> you're 30km above a sphere of diameter 13,000km
[15:57] <AndyEsser> Chimpusmaximus: nice :)
[15:57] <fsphil> very very slight curve at 30km :)
[15:58] <adamgreig> very very slight curve if I stand on the beach and look out to sea too
[15:58] <fsphil> more very's
[15:58] <adamgreig> :P
[15:58] <chris_99> heh
[15:58] <adamgreig> so it depends on your field of view of course
[15:58] <adamgreig> guess you could crunch the numbers for 120' or something
[15:59] <adamgreig> but it's not much
[15:59] <chris_99> mmm gotcha, was just curious
[15:59] <adamgreig> here's earth from the ISS at about 400km: http://i.imgur.com/fPo4p.jpg
[16:00] <adamgreig> also without lens correction ;)
[16:00] <adamgreig> but a reasonably good lens..
[16:00] <chris_99> that's a telephoto lens i guess, woudlnt it look more curved with a 50mm
[16:00] <SpeedEvil> It's depressing that ISS cameras don't go long-exposude at night
[16:01] <chris_99> that'd be cool
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[16:01] <SpeedEvil> https://www.flickr.com/photos/janaleo/6905589038/in/photolist-bwdX2Y-k58k2m-hhmVVg-fnNpcr-mkHnyv-hDdwvF-rECznC-dEcd7Z-irAoVD-rxZSHc-f1gdos-pRdyqS-jfPkex-q5HW93-kdeNte-kQLA5t-oTiJmq-mqXEuq-jKeGJ3-nV1fMF-kPjm7D-kWSkva-gB5xcB-jBKwZm-fy1Rxi-nontit-dJfYtp-jraqed-ii4UdY-mRCPPX-fFhfDn-fwjDJB-gpKby4-iLLD46-fyKfVk-oJbf71-iUmePQ-iyJ2Sw-kMJD4t-kDXzXP-meSLtX-qnnTSS-q85F1V-goe3E7-habSZs-yHLj55-kkuCBk-ku8QRi-oYvksX-kG6ViW - example from the above camera
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[16:39] <esculca> hi guys
[16:39] <esculca> good afterron
[16:39] <esculca> afternoon
[16:40] <esculca> one doubt
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[16:40] <esculca> do u guys know how to use GPIO pins in RFM98W
[16:40] <esculca> ?
[16:40] <esculca> for instance, to turn on / off an led?
[16:41] <esculca> I am using DIO0 and DIO5 already
[16:41] <esculca> but I would like to use DIO3 for other application
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[16:52] <dbrooke> esculca: they aren't GPIO pins, they can only be mapped to certain signals within the module
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[16:57] <esculca> I see
[16:58] <esculca> There's no other way?
[16:58] <esculca> I read on the datasheet that they were GPIO
[16:59] <esculca> made the pcb board accordlingly
[16:59] <esculca> :(
[16:59] <esculca> now they can't be used as GPIO
[16:59] <esculca> damm
[16:59] <esculca> ok, thanks
[17:02] <mattbrejza> another hoperf datasheet victim
[17:02] <russss> I had that experience recently, it wasn't the best.
[17:02] <eroomde> datasheet wars: a new hoperf
[17:03] <fsphil> to be fair, the datasheet doesn't mention gpio
[17:06] <esculca> yes, it says DIO
[17:07] <mattbrejza> if there is a condition which is always low and another condition which is always high, then you could use that as a bodge GPIO pin
[17:07] <fsphil> cunning
[17:07] <dbrooke> was just typing something like mattbrejza wrote ...
[17:08] <dbrooke> you'd be lucky to find the right signals and the right pin though
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[18:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DL0CRE-11 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL0CRE-11
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/12/14/1712217/7-million-xprize-for-deep-ocean-exploration - wasn't Laurenceb mentioning this sort of thing?
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[18:57] <Laurenceb> that was Haxxa
[18:57] <Laurenceb> that sounds rather more complex than building an ROV
[18:59] <fsphil> fair chance of aurora for the tiny percentage of northern uk with clear skies
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[19:07] <SpeedEvil> I would need a quite tall ladder.
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> On the upside, it would give me the opportunity to practice the skills learned from 'bridge constructor'
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[19:14] <Laurenceb> http://36.media.tumblr.com/a073e5642aa4169a61674fa50735a158/tumblr_n0wiilk97G1s61tm0o1_1280.jpg
[19:15] <Laurenceb> guy at left in the baseball cap is the nasa spaceflight emdrive guy
[19:15] <Laurenceb> this explains a lot
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[19:37] <Laurenceb> ooh next falcon9 will use pre chilled LOX
[19:38] <Laurenceb> wonder if thats ever been done before outside of Russia
[19:38] <Laurenceb> pre chilled lox and launch site landing
[19:38] <Laurenceb> mental
[19:39] <russss> delicious chilled LOX
[19:39] <Laurenceb> aiui Cygnus used it, but that used old N-1 engines
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[19:50] <fsphil> russss: the big red button ready?
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[19:50] <fsphil> there better be a big red button, or dangerous looking lever
[19:50] <russss> fsphil: just for you (and everyone else in this channel) https://www.emfcamp.org/tickets/choose
[19:50] <russss> the actual launch is fully automated
[19:51] <russss> but it's just changing the site to link to that page
[19:51] <fsphil> ah ha
[19:52] <adamgreig> is that live already then?
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[19:53] <russss> yup, buy away
[19:53] <adamgreig> ace
[19:53] <russss> am just dropping it into various IRC channels to soften the shock a bit
[19:54] <fsphil> good plan
[19:54] <fsphil> no idea how I'm getting yet :)
[19:54] <fsphil> worry about that later
[19:54] <adamgreig> well, that was painless
[19:55] <adamgreig> thumbs up
[19:55] <fsphil> indeed, nice job
[19:55] <russss> thanks!
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[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[19:58] <murb> now to see if they automatgically get bank transfer info!
[19:58] <murb> but no IBAN boo!
[19:59] <M0XIN> Tickets bought
[20:00] <murb> tickets purchased here as well, just have to find my banking widget and actually pay for them!
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[20:01] <adamgreig> russss: how does it feel to have ticket sales open and it's not even 2016 yet? :P
[20:01] <adamgreig> hope your dashboard is lighting up
[20:01] <fsphil> haha
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:02] <fsphil> I am now poorer. thanks :p
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[20:03] <richardeoin> ooh I just got a 502 coming back to emfcamp.org from gocardless
[20:03] <adamgreig> haha it's died
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[20:03] <richardeoin> that'll teach me to time thing wrong :p
[20:03] <adamgreig> that was quick
[20:03] <fsphil> whoa
[20:04] <mattbrejza> i went for the bank transfer, that direct debit thing sounded weird
[20:04] <fsphil> impressive
[20:04] <fsphil> yeah same mattbrejza
[20:04] <adamgreig> same :P
[20:04] <fsphil> lol website has totally gone
[20:04] <adamgreig> also i get paid in <10 days so...
[20:04] <chrisstubbs> Failing to get on the damn website
[20:04] <chrisstubbs> I got off the tube for this :P
[20:04] <adamgreig> haha
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> loooooool
[20:05] Action: fsphil prints out the confirmation page.... just in case
[20:11] <chrisstubbs> How long am I going to have to stay camped out in mcdonalds for before the website comes back and I find out all the early bird tickets are gone?
[20:12] <chrisstubbs> o its back
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[20:13] <chrisstubbs> Done! Whoop!
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[20:20] <chrisstubbs> Right back to the journey home, laters!
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[20:28] <mfa298> wow, from onsale to sold out whilst I was on my comute home (30m), thats pretty impressive!
[20:31] <russss> I'm stunned
[20:31] <russss> we sold 253 tickets in 18mins
[20:31] <murb> but but but not a power of 2!
[20:33] <mfa298> 14 tickets/min thats not bad.
[20:34] <mattbrejza> +15min irc headstart
[20:40] <fsphil> impressive
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[21:02] <Laurenceb> surely there are more than 253 tickets?!
[21:04] <mattbrejza> early bird tickets
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[21:17] <russss> Laurenceb: yeah there are ~1600 total tickets
[21:26] <fl_0> re
[21:27] <fl_0> anyone a clue, how the DS18B20 temp sensor(s) on the PitS baord can be calibrated?
[21:33] <fsphil> going to be a big crowd
[21:36] <fsphil> got an accurate temperature sensor fl_0?
[21:37] <fsphil> you could just compare it against something you know to be accurate
[21:37] <fl_0> yeah. but can I configure an offset or thelike in the PitS Software?
[21:38] <fsphil> not without modifying it iirc
[21:38] <fl_0> I see
[21:38] <fsphil> do you need the extra precision?
[21:38] <fl_0> I guess its the same for the pressure sensor?
[21:39] <fl_0> fsphil: maybe. we have 3 sensors now and the difference between all three is up to 6 °C
[21:39] <fl_0> :(
[21:39] <fsphil> the datasheet claims +/- 0.5c accuracy
[21:39] <fl_0> I just thought there might be an easy option :)
[21:39] <fsphil> 6c seems a bit much
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> how are the sensors mounted?
[21:41] <Upu> interestingly I've always put the DS18B20 at +5'C
[21:42] <fl_0> one is onboard of course
[21:42] <Upu> yes so will be warmer
[21:42] <fl_0> the other two were just attached via 30cm of wire
[21:42] <Upu> 1 sec
[21:42] <fl_0> lying on the ground next to each other
[21:42] <fl_0> for testing purposes of course
[21:42] <fsphil> the two next to eachother, is there much variation there?
[21:43] <fl_0> will have to re-check that
[21:43] <fl_0> IIRC that was about 2 deg
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[21:43] <Upu> sys project flew a DS18B20 vs Vaislia Sonde temp sensor
[21:43] <Upu> STS
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[21:44] <Upu> http://stsproject.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Screen-Shot-2012-09-18-at-17.12.09.png
[21:45] <Upu> blue is the Sonde
[21:48] <fl_0> Upu: ah nice
[21:48] <fl_0> thank you
[21:48] <Upu> and sure it will be trivial to amend the code
[21:48] <Upu> nps
[21:48] <fl_0> :)
[21:48] <Upu> thank Radim and STS
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[21:49] <fl_0> I do =)
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[22:01] <forrestv> does anyone know why nearly all the cheap single-chip IMUs (invensense, etc) don't allow for triggering/sampling clock input? it makes a lot of things impossible or at least annoying, like having a single clock source that all the sensors in your system are synchronous to
[22:02] <forrestv> is it deliberate market segmentation (force people to buy more expensive IMUs if they want that) or is that just not that desirable of a feature?
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[22:03] <mbales_> gholms, any word from cox?
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[22:14] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03M6LZY after 037 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M6LZY
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[22:17] <mbales_> sorry wrong window
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[22:53] <Laurenceb> forrestv: yes maybe for market segmentation
[22:53] <Laurenceb> in openpilot/taulabs they solve this problem by oversampling
[22:53] <Laurenceb> so either the interrupt lines trigger a read or the reads are scheduled on a timer
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[22:54] <Laurenceb> then the data is low pass filtered and decimated so that its aligned with the processing
[22:54] <Laurenceb> it adds a bit of overhead but is almost as good as aligned data with a dedicated clock
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[22:58] <eroomde> forrestv: i guess if they have onboard filtering too then it doesn't make sense to do much other than spit out vecotrs at >= 2x bandwidth
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[23:05] <Laurenceb> still somewhat suboptimal
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[23:38] <SpeedEvil> Also, if the ADCs are sampling at >nyquist of the hardware, it doesn't matter if you can just resample it
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[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[00:00] --- Tue Dec 15 2015