highaltitude.log.20151213

[00:01] <AndyEsser> o0o progress :)
[00:01] <AndyEsser> apparently smashing keyboard works :)
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[00:01] <AndyEsser> I now have a value 0->65535 measuring properly against voltage
[00:02] <AndyEsser> now to either convert to percentage or mV without using floats...
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[00:05] <mfa298> choose your resistors so that it could measure to 65.553V then it's just string processing.
[00:06] <mfa298> not suggesting it's the right option, but it's one method
[00:06] <zyp> AndyEsser, it's pretty easy really
[00:06] <zyp> just find the conversion factor and adapt it to fixedpoint
[00:07] <zyp> say, instead of multiplying by 0.123, you could multiply by 123 and later divide by 1000
[00:07] <Vaizki> why divide..
[00:07] <zyp> divide as in set the decimal point when printing
[00:07] <Vaizki> or just scale on habhub side
[00:07] <Lunar_Lander> divide and conquer!
[00:08] <zyp> Vaizki, yeah, then you can just send the raw value
[00:10] <AndyEsser> Yea, so I scaled the top so instead of getting 0.77 I get 77 (%)
[00:10] <AndyEsser> but yea, if I can scale on the habhub side, I might just send the raw value
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[00:14] <Vaizki> you are measuring battery voltage?
[00:15] <AndyEsser> yes
[00:25] <Vaizki> ok well I guess it's useful to know if you ran out of juice or if the tracker just failed :)
[00:25] <Vaizki> anyway, sleep for me.. &
[00:25] <AndyEsser> more data is always good :)
[00:25] <AndyEsser> night!
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[01:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KJ6YXG-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ6YXG-11
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[05:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KJ6UXG-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ6UXG-11
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[08:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KJ6YXG-7 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ6YXG-7
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[09:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-12
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[09:12] <PE2BZ> !flights
[09:12] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: There are no flights currently :(
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[09:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KJ6iXG-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ6iXG-11
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[09:32] <SpeedEvil> http://www.astronomerstelegram.org/?read=8402 - gravitational lensing is fun.
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[09:43] <fsphil> ah, I'd read about the prediction
[09:43] <fsphil> nice to see they caught it
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[10:28] <DL7AD> good morning
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[10:43] <AndyEsser> morning
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[11:12] <PE2BZ> !flights
[11:12] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: There are no flights currently :(
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[11:29] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-11 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-11
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[11:47] <DL7AD> the weather is too bad, to launch a balloon here in berlin. it's much too windy, cloudy and rainy. :/
[11:50] <murb> oh we just have good old franconian drizel down here.
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[11:51] <fsphil> still a winter wonderland here :)
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[11:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6NVB-12 after 0313 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVB-12
[11:58] <murb> my skis are still in the cupboard :(
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[12:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[12:30] <DL7AD> fsphil: snow up there?
[12:42] <Lunar_Lander> liquid snow in the sky: http://gop.meteo.uni-koeln.de/ag_crewell/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=publications:poster:poster_kneifel_20130218_isarra_mallorca.pdf
[12:43] <fsphil> DL7AD: yesterday, http://i.imgur.com/B4jdOMR.jpg
[12:43] <fsphil> melted a bit but still around
[12:43] <DL7AD> wow!
[12:43] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[12:43] <DL7AD> we also has some snow. but none of it last longer than 10min.
[12:43] <DL7AD> here in berlin
[12:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SJ6YXG-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SJ6YXG-11
[12:44] <DL7AD> (cant tell how the situation is at Lunar_Lander)
[12:44] <Lunar_Lander> sunny
[12:45] <Lunar_Lander> +7.5°C
[12:45] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.osnabrueck.de/start/buergerservice-stadtinformationen/unten-stadtinfos/webcam/blick-auf-den-neumarkt-kamera-1.html
[12:45] <fsphil> we're forecast to get 15c later next week
[12:45] <Lunar_Lander> live
[12:45] <fsphil> which is a pretty big change
[12:46] <DL7AD> btw. i just got our new tracker finished :) https://github.com/DL7AD/pecanpico7
[12:46] <DL7AD> thomas (KT5TK) and time
[12:47] <Lunar_Lander> nice :)
[12:48] <Lunar_Lander> did I show you my new concept too?
[12:48] <Lunar_Lander> I showed it here in the channel before, that I know
[12:48] <DL7AD> not yet
[12:48] <AndyEsser> it's cold and wet here
[12:48] <AndyEsser> that's the official forecast
[12:49] <Lunar_Lander> http://gerblook.org/pcb/obWFpGtY3ZYMwYLA4qDBPk http://gerblook.org/pcb/hkswofPA3vDEp24eFeQq8W http://gerblook.org/pcb/Sqr2TzW7HydF3Wv5fpHLfV
[12:49] <SA6BSS-Mike> monitoring a wx over south Norway it just bursed at 27000m , -76 degres :) brr
[12:50] <DL7AD> Lunar_Lander: why do you seperate them all in 3 different PCBs?
[12:50] <AndyEsser> frosty
[12:50] <SA6BSS-Mike> -1 no snow but frosty white out and sun from clear blue sky :)
[12:51] <Lunar_Lander> for some sort of stacking system
[12:51] <fsphil> aaah, the sun. I sorta remember what it's like
[12:51] <SA6BSS-Mike> hehe
[12:51] <DL7AD> Lunar_Lander: ah see it. you can stack them
[12:51] <Lunar_Lander> like on cubesat
[12:51] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[12:51] <DL7AD> cool :)
[12:51] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[12:52] <DL7AD> so you have it almost like a box
[12:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[12:53] <AndyEsser> fsphil: we're in the wrong country for sun ;)
[12:53] <AndyEsser> Lunar_Lander: I toyed with a stackable system, glad to see I wasn't the only :)
[12:53] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[12:53] <AndyEsser> I'm still unsure what is and isn't a moronic idea
[12:53] <fsphil> I should take up a new hobby. cloud watcher
[12:53] <fsphil> I'd never be bored
[12:53] <AndyEsser> ha
[12:56] <DL7AD> fsphil: did you get my mail?
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[12:57] <Lunar_Lander> http://gerblook.org/pcb/RGKWdXM3HysqPzVW8PWWc8
[12:57] <Lunar_Lander> boring afternoon yesterday
[12:58] <AndyEsser> hmm... anyone have issues with memset() getting optimised out and therefore having no effect?
[12:58] <fsphil> never seen that
[12:58] <AndyEsser> I was made aware of it a couple months ago, and it seems to be rearing itself now
[12:58] <AndyEsser> (made aware in x86, not embedded)
[13:00] <AndyEsser> my chip doesn't behave when reset, only works properly if I reprogram it (leading me to believe part of the programming process zero's out the memory)
[13:00] <AndyEsser> appears to have all sorts of memory corruption
[13:01] <fsphil> the startup code should be zero'ing all uninitialised variables
[13:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KJ6Y8G-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ6Y8G-11
[13:03] <AndyEsser> my startup code? or the stub code compiled in?
[13:03] <fsphil> stub
[13:04] <AndyEsser> in x86 release mode code avoids that as an optimisation, so wondering if it's doing something similar
[13:05] <AndyEsser> suspect I can strip the code right back and check the assembler to see
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[13:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HJ6YXG-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HJ6YXG-11
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[13:10] <Lunar_Lander> AndyEsser, my idea was to have a rugged system, compact
[13:10] <Lunar_Lander> easy to expand
[13:10] <Lunar_Lander> you could make your own deck from veroboard to try out something
[13:11] <AndyEsser> Yea, those are the same reasons I thought aboue stackable
[13:11] <AndyEsser> :)
[13:11] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[13:11] <AndyEsser> Great minds :)
[13:11] <AndyEsser> Flight Recorder being the top one (for GPS reception)
[13:11] <AndyEsser> and then success boards below for additional sensors, or whatever
[13:11] <AndyEsser> successive*
[13:12] <Lunar_Lander> yeah :)
[13:13] <AndyEsser> very easy to use rubber washers and things then on the mounting to absorb shock to the boards etc on impact
[13:13] <Lunar_Lander> I had the same thought with the GPS, but then I got the suggestion to use an antenna with a cable
[13:13] <Lunar_Lander> so with the SMA on the edge, the GPS board does not need to be on top
[13:13] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[13:13] <AndyEsser> True, I just kept coming across GPS modules that had the antenna built in
[13:14] <AndyEsser> Again, with a standard shape/connections, you can just do whatever
[13:14] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[13:14] <AndyEsser> ha
[13:14] <Lunar_Lander> http://gerblook.org/pcb/52kgzsecxMhHHGK2QG4XzE first iteration
[13:15] <AndyEsser> CTDWIN?
[13:16] <AndyEsser> eurgh... really want to keep working on this stuff, but have so much other stuff to do :(
[13:18] <DL7AD> has somebody already worked with gnss-sdr ? https://github.com/gnss-sdr/gnss-sdr/
[13:19] <chris_99> i was playing with that the other day, i'm waiting for a proper GPS antenna though, as i didn't recieve anything with a random antenna i've got
[13:19] <fsphil> https://github.com/gcc-mirror/gcc/blob/master/libgcc/config/avr/lib1funcs.S#L2439-L2453
[13:20] <DL7AD> chris_99: yeah. i actually have a proper antenna but im not sure if i'm doing something incorrect.
[13:20] <fsphil> think this is the bit that clears it. that should always get called
[13:20] <chris_99> DL7AD, got it compiled ok?
[13:20] <DL7AD> yes
[13:20] <DL7AD> after 3 days :D
[13:20] <fsphil> DL7AD: yeah, sorry forgot to reply
[13:20] <chris_99> did you use the calibration thing
[13:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea "cutdown"
[13:21] <DL7AD> chris_99: calibration thing? no
[13:21] <DL7AD> chris_99: i'm using a hackrf
[13:23] <chris_99> oh i was doing it with an rtlsdr, front_end_cal
[13:23] <chris_99> iirc
[13:23] <DL7AD> chris_99: the reference in there is stable enough. its just 100hz off of the 10mhz.
[13:24] <chris_99> what does gnss output for you?
[13:24] <chris_99> does it keep saying lost lock?
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[13:28] <DL7AD> chris_99: PM
[13:39] <AndyEsser> well.. slight change to my code gets around the "resetting doesn't work" issue, but my strcmp still breaks after a bit
[13:39] <AndyEsser> heh
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[13:55] <fsphil> what are you doing to the poor thing :)
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[13:55] <AndyEsser> fsphil: apparently wasting time on stuff that I likely shouldn't
[13:55] <AndyEsser> (ie a Debug/CLI interface)
[14:06] <fsphil> probably shouldn't add that text adventure game too
[14:07] <AndyEsser> aww
[14:07] <AndyEsser> my first year electronics engineering project had a mini-game built in ;)
[14:08] <AndyEsser> it was only supposed to be a low/band/high pass filter ;)
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[14:11] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
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[16:28] <Ian_> LunarLander on your [13:14] Gerber, you have (repeated an earlier?) a cutout for the SMA connector that is going to make it impractical to connect properly . . .
[16:29] <Ian_> due to insufficient clearance at the sides.
[16:29] <Ian_> Lunar_Lander ^ ^
[16:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah thanks
[16:32] <Lunar_Lander> that was the very first attempt
[16:32] <Lunar_Lander> the production model has a cutout for two SMAs with clearance
[16:32] <Lunar_Lander> see 12:49
[16:36] <Ian_> Alas I lost connection around 11:30 and didn't pick your 12:49 up on my trawl of the raw log
[16:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:37] <Lunar_Lander> <Lunar_Lander> http://gerblook.org/pcb/obWFpGtY3ZYMwYLA4qDBPk http://gerblook.org/pcb/hkswofPA3vDEp24eFeQq8W http://gerblook.org/pcb/Sqr2TzW7HydF3Wv5fpHLfV
[16:43] <Ian_> Ha ha, just went back on the index of IRC logs and looked it up. But thanks for the courtesy of the repeat.
[16:44] <Ian_> Here today the cloudbase is on the ground 200m visibility
[16:44] <Ian_> after earlier rain. Looking forward to some frosty days before long.
[16:45] <fsphil> warming up here. about half of the snow has gone now
[16:45] <AndyEsser> fsphil: whereabouts are you?
[16:46] <fsphil> cookstown, n.ireland
[16:46] <Ian_> West Midlands - I would prefer to miss the snow phase and go direct to hard frosts
[16:47] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[16:47] <AndyEsser> *waves from across the water*
[16:47] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome :)
[16:47] Action: fsphil waves back
[16:47] <fsphil> might send you a HAB sometime :p
[16:47] <AndyEsser> haha
[16:47] <AndyEsser> I'd be impressed if you could target it that well :)
[16:48] <AndyEsser> but if it says it'll land north wales, I'd be up for recovering sometime as long as you give me enough notice to organise a vehicle
[16:48] <fsphil> yeah, I did aim for Upu once and ended up 100 miles offshore in the north sea
[16:48] <AndyEsser> ha
[16:48] <AndyEsser> "close enough"
[16:48] <eroomde> no one has landed anything in another habber's back garden yet
[16:48] <eroomde> one day
[16:49] <fsphil> http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/hab/hadie4-track.png
[16:49] <AndyEsser> I'd like to work out some sort of powered landing where you could do that
[16:51] <fsphil> I got a parafoil with the aim of doing something like that. haven't got very far with it sadly
[16:51] <fsphil> a guided descent to a pre-selected area
[16:51] <AndyEsser> fsphil: where was the target? Hull?
[16:52] <fsphil> AndyEsser: that radio tower near halifax
[16:52] <AndyEsser> possible to use life services or anything to 'guide' it when descending
[16:52] <AndyEsser> fsphil: ah, bit far then ;)
[16:52] <AndyEsser> life services?!
[16:52] <AndyEsser> lift surfaces*
[16:52] <fsphil> I underfilled the balloon (was filled during a blizzard, I was in a hurry ;)
[16:52] <AndyEsser> wow... how did I get that wrong
[16:52] <AndyEsser> ha
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[16:53] <AndyEsser> speaking of filling balloons - where do people usually get their helium from?
[16:53] <AndyEsser> notice BOC requires a whole process of setting up an account and vetting etc
[16:54] <fsphil> you can be signed up pretty quickly
[16:54] <fsphil> it's handy if you have a depot nearby too
[16:55] <AndyEsser> will they just deliver to your home?
[16:55] <fsphil> for a fee yeah
[16:55] <fsphil> dunno what, I'm just a few minutes away from a place
[16:56] <AndyEsser> ah cool
[16:56] <AndyEsser> I imagine there must be a depot nearby here
[16:56] <AndyEsser> given how chemicals is kind of the North Wests thing
[16:58] <AndyEsser> 6.8 miles away
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[17:01] <AndyEsser> fsphil: so you recommend I just set up a BOC acocunt then?
[17:01] <AndyEsser> account*
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[17:07] <fsphil> often handier. there's also distributers like http://www.kentballoons.com/helium-gas.html
[17:07] <AndyEsser> cheers
[17:07] <AndyEsser> are there any regulations (beyond common sense) for the storage of helium?
[17:08] <fsphil> or these guys, http://balloonhelium.co.uk/
[17:08] <fsphil> none that I'm aware off
[17:08] <fsphil> the biggest risk is the weight of the cylinder
[17:10] <AndyEsser> cool cheers :)
[17:11] <chris_99> i don't think theres even any particular regulation for hydrogen either?
[17:11] <AndyEsser> not even one of those "Compressed Gas" stickers on the vehicle during transport?
[17:12] <fsphil> nice to have, but not a requirement
[17:13] <AndyEsser> for the sake of £10 I can pick up a magnetic one for a car
[17:13] <AndyEsser> better to plan for the worst and hope for the best
[17:14] <fsphil> different if it's a work thing, I think businesses are required to have warning signs
[17:14] <AndyEsser> Well I'll be operating most of this stuff as my own company, so will investigate further
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[17:15] <fsphil> http://www.uk.airliquide.com/file/otherelement/pj/___l53496.pdf
[17:15] <fsphil> might be useful
[17:15] <AndyEsser> thank you kindly :)
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[17:16] <AndyEsser> I did have a quick google when I got into bed last night, but it's not exactly entertaining bedtime reading
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[17:31] <gonzo__nb> most H&S stuff goes out of the window when it's private. As most of it seems to be duty if care to employees etc
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[17:32] <gonzo__nb> (As an aside. Was watching a bbc4 think on the histoiry of smokilg and thew ban on smoking ion publicplaces as it mainly relates to smoking in the work place.
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[17:33] <gonzo__nb> there was a mention of councils requiring people to pack in smoking in their own homes for a period, if a council employee was coming to visit.
[17:33] <gonzo__nb> I wondered how often that would actually happen?!)
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[17:34] <AndyEsser> tbh, even as a smoker - the thought of smoking indoors is disgusting to me
[17:34] <AndyEsser> I only started smoking after the smoking ban
[17:34] <AndyEsser> so never did it indoors
[17:34] <AndyEsser> even now when I go to Crete to visit my dad, I have to leave the bar or whatever I'm in and go outside for a smoke, even if everyone else is doing it there
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:35] <Lunar_Lander> I was wondering if smoking ever was allowed at Uni in the phyiscs institute
[17:36] <Lunar_Lander> today it is banned, but there are still signs "Don't smoke in this hallway, sensitive optical apparatus"
[17:36] <AndyEsser> heh
[17:37] <gonzo__nb> not that long ago, people would have an ashtray on their desk
[17:37] <AndyEsser> yea
[17:37] <AndyEsser> that just seems so alien to me
[17:38] <AndyEsser> I've never smoked indoors, it's just... eww
[17:38] <AndyEsser> ha
[17:38] <AndyEsser> my digusting habit is mine, not right for me to force it on others in my house/workplace etc
[17:38] <gonzo__nb> I think smoking at work was only allowed in the canteen when I started work. but pubs were still smokey as hell
[17:38] <gonzo__nb> you would have to put yourclothes in the wash the moment yiu got home, afrer going for a beer
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[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> "Noel also told a story which called Liam's intelligence into question.
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> "We were round at his house one night. He says, 'Why have you got a fork in that bottle of champagne?' I replied, 'Cos it keeps the bubbles, keeps it fresh.
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> "A few weeks later we were round his house and opened the fridge door and there was a spoon in a bottle of milk.""
[17:39] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10848765
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[17:41] <gonzo__nb> as a drunk student we decoided to test if the light in the fridge actually goes off when you close the door
[17:41] <gonzo__nb> so bored a hole in the door to look
[17:42] <chris_99> haha
[17:42] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[17:42] <gonzo__nb> but as the light in there had not worked for years, we had do add one
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[17:42] <gonzo__nb> so put a lamp holder on a bit of wood put it in
[17:43] <gonzo__nb> with the wire slammed in the door and plugged in outside
[17:43] <gonzo__nb> and it didn't go off, so we have been lied to all these years
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[17:44] <chris_99> lol
[17:44] <gonzo__nb> the owner was not too pleased, so we glued some perspex over the hole. So was able then to see how much milk was left iin the bottle without opening the door
[17:46] <Lunar_Lander> nice :D
[17:46] <gonzo__nb> I did hear that later on, someone wired some xmas lights in the fridgy, to the door switch.
[17:47] <chris_99> haha cool
[17:47] <gonzo__nb> all in the days before internet/digital cameras, so shame there are no hphotos
[17:49] <AndyEsser> heh
[17:49] <AndyEsser> I'm partly thankful that when I was growing up, smartphones weren't a thing
[17:49] <AndyEsser> many stupid stunts would've been captured
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[17:49] <AndyEsser> like me trying to determine if a black bin bag worked as a parachute
[17:49] <AndyEsser> for the record... it doesn't
[17:50] <AndyEsser> and gravity is a bitch
[17:51] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[17:52] <gonzo__nb> when I was growing up, the whole anti-terrorism wasn't a tghing. So what I did was just considered 'high spirits'
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[17:52] <gonzo__nb> I have used a carrier bag, opened out and ties with thin cord as a chute
[17:53] <gonzo__nb> the payload was only light and well bubble wrapped. So only added for peace on mind
[17:53] <gonzo__nb> we did use the same on rockets. that worked on
[17:53] <gonzo__nb> ok
[17:54] <gonzo__nb> we had a deployable nose cone section with a tv cam in
[17:54] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[17:54] <gonzo__nb> that came down on it's own tesco chute. And with the ciorrect geometry, was a slow descent. Enough to get vgood tv pics
[17:55] <gonzo__nb> the last lauch had excellent tv footage. And sods law, the video recoeder didn't wotk
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[17:57] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[17:57] <gonzo__nb> only mtself the rx and the young kids that came along saw it on the monitor
[17:58] <Lunar_Lander> ohhh
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[17:59] <AndyEsser> I still wish I had the same curiosity and wonder that I had when I was a child
[17:59] <AndyEsser> It used to be "oo, lets do this"
[17:59] <Lunar_Lander> well
[17:59] <AndyEsser> instead it's now "Lets not, it won't work because of x, y, z"
[17:59] <eroomde> i think you had plenty of that
[17:59] <Lunar_Lander> thankfully you are here :)
[17:59] <eroomde> maybe too much :p
[17:59] <AndyEsser> eroomde: many moons ago
[17:59] <AndyEsser> looking back on my childhood I'm amazed at some of the ideas and things I came up with
[17:59] <AndyEsser> and nowadays my mind wouldn't even conceive them
[18:00] <AndyEsser> :(
[18:00] <eroomde> your space plane idea wasn't a million miles from skylon
[18:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC3DEJ-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC3DEJ-11
[18:01] <AndyEsser> eroomde: ha
[18:01] <AndyEsser> I'd forgotten about that
[18:01] <AndyEsser> good times
[18:01] <AndyEsser> simpler times
[18:01] <AndyEsser> without Direct Debits.. and responsibilities
[18:02] <AndyEsser> eroomde: do you speak to Chris much anymore?
[18:02] <eroomde> no tho am hoping to this xmas
[18:03] <eroomde> he did help us out during university
[18:03] <eroomde> we wanted to wind tunnel test a deployment mechanism for a parachute, wind tunnel was vastly too expensive
[18:03] <eroomde> but a dodge ram pulling a scaffold mortar rig down a disused runway at 70mph would do it
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[18:04] <AndyEsser> Yea, I'd heard something about that
[18:04] <AndyEsser> or actually think he might've shown me a video maybe
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[18:06] <Laurenceb> eroomde: do you know anyone who has published in AIAA? In thinking of submitting a paper
[18:07] <eroomde> me
[18:07] <eroomde> ?
[18:07] <eroomde> loads of people
[18:07] <eroomde> my only real remark is that anything that involves their website will be the least pleasant encouter with IT you will have had to date
[18:08] <AndyEsser> ha
[18:08] <eroomde> they have a bajillion journals and most of them don't both with review
[18:08] <Laurenceb> yes I've had that experience
[18:08] <eroomde> it's more an excuse to get industry pub sessions under the guise of conferences
[18:08] <Laurenceb> are they about the highest impact factor in the area?
[18:08] <eroomde> yeah probably
[18:08] <eroomde> though you haven't told me which area you have in mind
[18:09] <AndyEsser> Aerospace I'm guessing ;)
[18:09] <eroomde> that doesn't narrow it down
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[18:10] <Laurenceb> lol yeah aerospace
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[18:11] <eroomde> sure but which area
[18:11] <Laurenceb> super large airships for containerised cargo transport
[18:11] <eroomde> like, if you have an idea in combustion modelling there are much better places than aiaa propulsion, depending on the sort of results you're presenting
[18:11] <Laurenceb> would probably involve lots of economic modelling
[18:11] <eroomde> if it's parachutes or sounding rockets, almost certainly aiaa
[18:11] <Laurenceb> I see
[18:11] <eroomde> yeah that sounds more like aiaa
[18:12] <eroomde> but i'm not an expert in economic modelling of infrastructure
[18:12] <Laurenceb> that would be about 30% of the contents tops
[18:12] <Laurenceb> but it'd form the basis of the design analysis
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[18:12] <Laurenceb> ok cool, thanks for the advice
[18:13] <Laurenceb> maybe I should do one on sounding rockets too :D
[18:13] <Laurenceb> problem with papers is it takes so long to get published in most places
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[18:13] <Laurenceb> so you need to have several on the go at any one time to get any sort of publication record, which I really really hate doing
[18:14] <eroomde> https://www.aiaa.org/journals/
[18:14] <Laurenceb> you end up with tons of rather nasty modelling and tons of revisions of graphs and text that needs endlessly revising and you have to keep track of that situation with all your stuff :-S
[18:14] <eroomde> yes
[18:14] <eroomde> it's boring
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[18:15] <eroomde> though a few papers in good journals counts for quite a lot
[18:15] <eroomde> compared to a load of vomit on conference proceedings
[18:15] <Laurenceb> I'd like to get 5 or 6 papers
[18:15] <Laurenceb> yeah conference proceeding is literally 10 times easier
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[18:15] <Laurenceb> no endless review and formatting to journal specs
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> It does sound like a fun project to try. I'll chip in a fiver.
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:16] <AndyEsser> eroomde: started watching your GPS talk from UKHAS 2013(?) the other day
[18:16] <AndyEsser> you were very excitable ;)
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: what's the OOM BOM?
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: and how does it compare to a ship?
[18:16] Nick change: mattbrej1a -> mattbrejza
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: or not got a feel for that yet
[18:18] <eroomde> AndyEsser: i was winging that
[18:18] <eroomde> it put me off the live-coding conf talk thing a bit
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[18:19] <eroomde> well, i would do it again but i'd practice
[18:20] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: about 2.5 times the price of a ship
[18:20] <Laurenceb> but its about 4 times faster
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[18:20] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: energy?
[18:20] <Laurenceb> and takes more direct routes
[18:21] <Laurenceb> is about 6 times lower per ton/km
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> Even counting headwinds?
[18:21] <Laurenceb> and cost is even lower as it mostly burns natural gas
[18:21] <Laurenceb> no
[18:21] <Laurenceb> itd need more modelling
[18:21] <SpeedEvil> Kite-sails to jet winds
[18:21] <Laurenceb> heh
[18:21] <Laurenceb> air traffic control nightmare
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> what is the skin thickness?
[18:22] <Laurenceb> ~3mm steel
[18:22] <SpeedEvil> HSLA?
[18:22] <Laurenceb> basically like a large warehouse building, with glass fibre main frame
[18:23] <Laurenceb> no need for anything special, large range forces are carried by the fibreglass
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> the skin stiffens it in torsion I guess?
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[18:24] <Laurenceb> yes, but its mainly there to be easy to build and durable
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> Everyone knows how to fix steel
[18:24] <Laurenceb> the hard problem seems to be buoyancy, super large stuff looks hard to stabilise with aerodynamic forces alone
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[18:25] <Laurenceb> as drag drops off, which is good, but then you dont have enough thrust for more than a few % buoyancy shift
[18:25] <SpeedEvil> square cube works against in that spect I guess
[18:25] <Laurenceb> meanwhile the thermal time constant goes way up
[18:26] <Laurenceb> so you need about 5% buoyancy control with a short time constant
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[18:26] <SpeedEvil> ow
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[18:27] <Laurenceb> so many GW peak power with therma
[18:27] <Laurenceb> *l
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> GW out too.
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> which is worse.
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[18:42] <AndyEsser> coffee time!
[18:45] <DL7AD> agree :P
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[18:49] <aqquadro> hi there, I've just discovered this community, how I read about rule of baloon launch? thank u in advance
[18:49] <aqquadro> * where I read about... my poor english..
[18:49] <fsphil> it depends mostly on your local government / air authority
[18:50] <DL7AD> yes right. the question must be, in which country do you want to launch?
[18:50] <fsphil> off-topic question, anyone know what this error might mean: "Error: cannot honor width suffix -- `eor r2,#0x20'" -- trying my asm blink code on a cortex-m0+ cpu
[18:51] <aqquadro> Italy
[18:51] <DL7AD> fsphil: which cpu do you use?
[18:51] <fsphil> this is an stm32l0
[18:52] <DL7AD> aqquadro: i know some people. i will try to contact them.
[18:52] <fsphil> trying to xor a bit in a register
[18:52] <DL7AD> fsphil: wait there is a list, that tells what the error ist
[18:53] <aqquadro> DL7AD & fsphil: thank you very much, I'll go offline now because I reach my train stop, so I send to you a pvt w/ my email
[18:53] <DL7AD> okay
[18:56] <DL7AD> sry fsphil i read more carefully. and now i have no idea what this could be.
[18:57] <DL7AD> does the error already occur at compilation?
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[19:01] <fsphil> it's an assembler error
[19:02] <fsphil> looks like it can't take an immediate value
[19:14] <fsphil> the arm instruction set seems to get a little less useful each time I use it :)
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[19:18] <cm13g09> although I'm about to go away and have supper, has anyone here played with HC-11 radio modules before?
[19:18] <cm13g09> I am finding them... challenging, shall we say
[19:23] <AndyEsser> fsphil: eww ARM
[19:23] <AndyEsser> :P
[19:23] <AndyEsser> fsphil: try the foot instruction set
[19:24] Action: fsphil joins the Foot Clan
[19:24] <eroomde> eew arm?
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[19:24] <eroomde> that's like saying 'eww water' in a conversation about survival
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[19:25] <AndyEsser> lol
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[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[20:01] <AndyEsser> So I know this is kind of jumping ahead of myself, but interested
[20:02] <AndyEsser> can anyone provide reading material as to why it's 'easy' enough to get a balloon ~40km altitude, but not any higher
[20:02] <AndyEsser> I presume it's linked to the fact the atmosphere is so thin that helium provides very little 'lift'?
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:04] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Surely the amount of stretch in the latex will have an impact? Make it thicker and it weighs more, make it thinner and stretches less ?
[20:05] <AndyEsser> Geoff-G8DHE_: suspect it's a combination of various factors
[20:05] <Geoff-G8DHE_> indeed it won't be the only one.
[20:06] <Geoff-G8DHE_> https://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning?s[]=latex
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[20:10] <Geoff-G8DHE_> https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/itn3a/since_a_weather_balloons_max_height_is_limited_by/
[20:11] <AndyEsser> Geoff-G8DHE_: cheers
[20:11] <fsphil> every extra metre is that much harder
[20:11] <mfa298> there was a bit of discussion a couple of weeks ago with the claims for 49.5km from a group.
[20:12] <AndyEsser> Yea, sore subject ;)
[20:12] <Geoff-G8DHE_> https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0ahUKEwjBv-Hh0dnJAhXH1RQKHWtnB_AQFghDMAc&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.springer.com%2Fcda%2Fcontent%2Fdocument%2Fcda_downloaddocument%2F9780387097251-c1.pdf%3FSGWID%3D0-0-45-740923-p173843909&usg=AFQjCNGQ6UnFKw-9c73dLym5HcMN-IH9_A&sig2=DG5Cfpd1e7okkp36Ubk29w
[20:12] <mfa298> although I think it's quite telling that the accepted records (i.e. those backed by gps logs) are all from the same batch of balloons. Suggests the latex plays part of the role
[20:13] <AndyEsser> Upu: How does on apply to have edit rights to the wiki?
[20:14] <Upu> Say Upu can I please have access to edit the wiki my username on there is..
[20:14] <AndyEsser> Upu: please cna I have access to edit the wiki, my username on there is andyesser :P
[20:14] <fsphil> cash helps too
[20:14] <AndyEsser> heh
[20:14] <AndyEsser> cash, cookies, and bourbon
[20:14] <AndyEsser> :)
[20:15] <Upu> done
[20:15] <AndyEsser> Thank you kindly :)
[20:15] Action: AndyEsser deletes all the things
[20:16] <eroomde> not bourbon
[20:16] Action: Upu stabs all the AndyEsser's
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[20:16] <Upu> its ok we have backups
[20:16] <Upu> oh wait
[20:17] <mfa298> it's all backed up in the google cache :p
[20:17] <AndyEsser> woo, change made
[20:17] <AndyEsser> does that make me part of the community now :)
[20:17] <fsphil> it's ok, the trojan the wiki installs can recover the changes from your PC ...
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[20:18] <mfa298> no doubt it's all backed up by the nsa as well.
[20:18] <AndyEsser> indeed
[20:18] <fsphil> write-only backups
[20:19] <AndyEsser> many jokes about emailing NSA to get data back that was accidentally deleted ;)
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[20:27] <fsphil> man, an hour spent tracking down a bug that turned out to be a single missing .
[20:29] <mfa298> at least it makes a change to the normally missing ;
[20:30] <fsphil> mmm, though usually those trigger a warning or error
[20:30] <AndyEsser> fsphil: best kind of bugs :P
[20:30] <fsphil> I was missing a . on a linker section name, so it was happly discarding all the contents without error
[20:31] <fsphil> LEDs now happly blinking. yay
[20:31] <AndyEsser> \o/
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[20:32] <mfa298> it's amazing how much joy can come from a simple LED blinking at the right speed.
[20:33] <fsphil> lol
[20:33] <fsphil> yes
[20:33] <AndyEsser> the "right speed" bit is the key
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[20:34] <chris_99> i'm trying to sort out some code, to blink leds, to transmit an ID from them, to be picked up by a camera
[20:35] <Ian_> Video camera? Human readable or machine?
[20:35] <chris_99> yeah video camera
[20:35] <Ian_> Morse or RTTY
[20:35] <chris_99> trying to convert their position from 2D photos, to 3D
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[20:36] <Ian_> Unless you need the code all in each frame
[20:36] <chris_99> probably a form of Non-return-to-zero coding
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[20:45] <AndyEsser> chris_99: will the camera pan/tilt?
[20:45] <AndyEsser> or be stationary
[20:45] <AlvaroPelon> Can anyone explain me how a HAB tracker works? my skype is: tecnogamingyt
[20:45] <AlvaroPelon> Im very interested
[20:46] <chris_99> the camera will move in freespace AndyEsser, so yeah, i've just got a copy of 'Multiple View Geometry in Computer Vision' but a lot of it is well above my head atm
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[20:48] <AndyEsser> chris_99: don't suppose the led's have a nice colour standing out from the background?
[20:48] <chris_99> yeah i'm doing blob detection atm, but i'll easily be able to remove blobs which aren't the leds
[20:48] Nick change: Guest43117 -> nigelvh
[20:48] <chris_99> as i'll only keep the ones that i tag with IDs
[20:48] <AndyEsser> cool
[20:48] <AndyEsser> what's the end goal?
[20:49] <chris_99> to paint my christmas tree as a 3D display ;)
[20:49] <AndyEsser> lol
[20:49] <AndyEsser> o0o might have to stick a balloon to a mini xmas tree next year ;)
[20:49] <chris_99> haha
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[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[20:53] <fsphil> you could blink each LED with a pseudo random, 32-bit perhaps
[20:53] <fsphil> *number
[20:53] <fsphil> each bit lasting a few frames
[20:53] <fsphil> though if you're moving it won't work too well
[20:54] <chris_99> ideally i wanted a high fps camera
[20:54] <chris_99> but 30fps will have to do
[20:55] <fsphil> you'll probably be limited to 15 baud
[20:56] <fsphil> maybe less depending on the camera
[20:56] <chris_99> mmm
[20:56] <fsphil> but a fun idea
[20:57] <fsphil> they're going to flicker like mad
[20:57] <chris_99> yeah :) only during the calibration though hopefully
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[21:03] <SpeedEvil> chris_99: are these rgb leds?
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> In principle, that could more than triple your datarate
[21:06] <AndyEsser> https://ukhas.org.uk/projects:ead-pls_-_ead_payload_launch_system
[21:06] <AndyEsser> Woo! Project page
[21:06] <AndyEsser> now we're cooking with gas
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[21:07] <AndyEsser> (or rather floating with helium)
[21:08] <fsphil> leave the cooking until you're using hydrogen
[21:08] <AndyEsser> "until"
[21:08] <AndyEsser> I'm sure I'd ever trust myself around hydrogen tanks ;)
[21:08] <AndyEsser> <--- Smoker, remember
[21:08] <AndyEsser> ;)
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[21:17] <Ian_> Correction - very nervous smoker!
[21:17] <Ian_> BOOM!
[21:18] <Ian_> X-nervous
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:20] <Hiena> Nah. Hydrogen not dangerous. I never saw exploding any ion reduction chamber, even running on the full load. The hydrogen and oxygen mix, well, that is on the other hand.
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[21:22] <AndyEsser> :P
[21:22] <AndyEsser> Hiena: sadly, our atmosphere contains oxygen ;)
[21:22] <AndyEsser> "sadly"
[21:22] <AndyEsser> ha
[21:31] <fsphil> yeah, it's all been downhill since the proterozoic eon
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[21:34] <eroomde> unless you lit a hydrogen-oxygen balloon, i doubt you'd be in much danger
[21:35] <AndyEsser> I'll stick with He
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[21:42] <realborg> I am having trouble understanding why airships were abandoned after the first major accident
[21:43] <realborg> while jetplanes continued to succeed after several catastrophic failures of the comet
[21:44] <realborg> maybe because hindeburg was filmed while the comets left neither wreckage nor carnage
[21:44] <Hiena> It wasn't the first major accident. Also they was fragile and unmaintainable. Operating an airship is a nightmare.
[21:44] <Laurenceb> realborg: thats what I was planning to write a paper on for AIAA
[21:45] <Laurenceb> modern H2 airships
[21:45] <Laurenceb> its still not an easy ride tho
[21:45] <Laurenceb> what Hiena said
[21:45] <realborg> Hiena, how much would it cost to cross the atlantic in an airship today? basically nothing
[21:46] <Laurenceb> realborg: itd cost a fair bit at small scales
[21:46] <Laurenceb> airships are poor for passenger transport
[21:46] <realborg> why? it just takes longer
[21:47] <Laurenceb> yeah so your passengers get mad
[21:47] <Laurenceb> and your engines burn through more fuel
[21:48] <realborg> lets use solar energy
[21:48] <realborg> and build the ship large enough so that passengers can actually lie down to sleep
[21:48] <Hiena> At the uni. we played the closed cell hydrogen foams. They are good to reduce the burn rate of the hydrogen, but still has a problem with the hydrogen loss.
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[21:50] <realborg> Laurenceb, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LKgtdNFi-g
[21:50] <realborg> I'd like a ticket on that
[21:51] <eroomde> am willing to bet it doesn't get built
[21:51] <eroomde> and that if it does, like every airline ever with concept photos of lounge bars and so on, it'll actually just be cattle-class seats stuffed into every sequare inch
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[21:53] <AndyEsser> That video is very Etihad/Emirates
[21:54] <AndyEsser> and in fact, it wouldn't surprise me if a UAE/Saudi prince bankrolled something like that
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[21:55] <realborg> if the world is stuck in conservativism - can you blame them for proudly stepping forward?
[21:55] <eroomde> oh cool you've gone full markov
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[21:58] <mfa298> I can see it working as an idea if it's more cruise ship style travel rather than a means to get somewhere.
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[22:04] <Hiena> Well, if you combine it the cheap PV cells, it could be viable alternatives for several transportation.
[22:04] <realborg> I think airships could become an alternative to "cattle class" airlines - cheaper but more space
[22:04] <Hiena> Slow, but faster tha a ship and also cheaper and cleaner.
[22:05] <realborg> and you could make them go high altitude and provide a fantastic view
[22:07] <Hiena> What i would like to see a vacuum balloon built from carbon nanstructure. It could be LTA and maintainable.
[22:10] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb was going on about truly massive scale, where problems occur due to square/cube scaling. I wonder how it works with a ship of ~1% the volume, as a passenger ship
[22:11] <Hiena> Any man, who could build a 1 m^3 vacuum ballon less than 500g would spark a new aeronautical revolution.
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> Or possibly any woman too.
[22:11] <Hiena> But sadly no interests about it.
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> Just make a carbon-carbon composite 3d printer.
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> Simples.
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> In principle, a CC shell, with limited internal bracing can work.
[22:12] <Hiena> SpeedEvil: Sure. My mistake. I shuld have to be non gender specific. I wouldn't want to offend any lifeform. Or not...
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> External bracing would of course be easier
[22:14] <Laurenceb> high strength concrete is almost there
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[22:16] <russss> a concrete balloon?
[22:16] <russss> excellent
[22:17] <Laurenceb> yup
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[22:28] <realborg> mythbusters built a balloon from lead
[22:29] <russss> I would expect lead is not an ideal material for a vaccuum balloon though
[22:30] <AndyEsser> eroomde: how would you feel if I strapped a teddy to my first launch? :P
[22:31] <realborg> AndyEsser, what's his name?
[22:32] <AndyEsser> Sir Teddy Floatsalot
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[23:00] <fsphil> Airbear
[23:03] <fsphil> oh, tomorrow is Monday
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[23:04] <realborg> today here
[23:04] <AndyEsser> fsphil: indeed :(
[23:06] <fsphil> oh well, productive-ish weekend
[23:06] <AndyEsser> likewise
[23:06] <Laurenceb> "use a cross superscript to mark if the author is dead"
[23:06] <AndyEsser> although didn't do any of the client work that I should've done :(
[23:06] <Laurenceb> this is encouraging
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: well, concrete damn near isn't a thing.
[23:06] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: as it's such a ridiculously wide topic.
[23:06] <Laurenceb> concrete bucking strength is way too low
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: does it specify undead?
[23:07] <Laurenceb> heh
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> yeah - buckling is annoying
[23:07] <Laurenceb> for most journals the author can be expected to have died by the time anything is published
[23:08] <Laurenceb> I dont see the point of a vacuum balloon
[23:08] <Laurenceb> probably the reason nobody has built one
[23:09] <eroomde> i suspect it's technical actually, rather than pointlessness
[23:15] <Laurenceb> well pointless + hard enough that it'd be a very serious undertaking == nothing gets done
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> rigid hydrogen balloon does almost the same thing.
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> Getting a vacuum balloon to lower than the density of a rigid hydrogen balloon is challenging
[23:17] <SpeedEvil> getting it to float at sea level is 'easy'
[23:17] <Laurenceb> haha
[23:17] <Laurenceb> if the float altitude is exactly 0 meters
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> Its surface and shores are 429 metres (1,407 ft) below sea level
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[23:28] <AndyEsser> *sigh* Students nextdoor are playing loud music... guess it's fortunate I didn't plan on getting to sleep yet
[23:38] <fsphil> is it good music?
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> well
[23:43] <Lunar_Lander> stratospheric guitar
[23:45] <AndyEsser> fsphil: doubtful, all I can hear is the "unce unce unce unce" of the bass
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:46] <Lunar_Lander> uz uz uz uz uz uz
[23:48] <craag> AndyEsser: Got an ssb transmitter handy? :P
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[23:51] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:51] <fsphil> a few kw on 28mhz does wonders
[23:53] <AndyEsser> craag: sadly no :(
[23:53] <AndyEsser> they've stopped now anyway
[23:53] <AndyEsser> :)
[23:53] <craag> :)
[23:53] <AndyEsser> besides I'm pretty sure a couple of bursts at about 2-3 Hz would be fine
[23:53] <AndyEsser> (ie... bashing on the wall)
[23:53] <craag> hehe
[23:54] <AndyEsser> I love this house, the proximity to work and town is great, it's a lovely house
[23:54] <AndyEsser> has a nice fire
[23:54] <AndyEsser> 3 bedrooms
[23:54] <AndyEsser> but unfortunately is a 10 minute walk of the Uni of Chester
[23:54] <AndyEsser> so it's studentville
[00:00] --- Mon Dec 14 2015