highaltitude.log.20151212

[00:02] <AndyEsser> Right, night all!
[00:04] <daveake> nn
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[01:42] <Laurenceb> http://www.theengineer.co.uk/students/latest/students-use-engineering-simulation-for-hyperloop-tests/1021546.article
[01:42] <Laurenceb> sigh
[01:45] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I raised the crossfed channels almost immediately - I can't see that it's not intentional
[01:45] <Laurenceb> its how they solved the problem in the channel tunnle
[01:50] <SpeedEvil> http://www.theengineer.co.uk/energy/news/wendelstein-7-x-fusion-reactor-comes-online/1021553.article - now - airship weight reduction
[01:51] <Laurenceb> haha
[01:51] <Laurenceb> oh I think I worked out how to make my container airship work
[01:52] <Laurenceb> have an exhaust filled ballonett with regenerator heat exchanger
[01:52] <Laurenceb> lots of tubes filled with wax, some waxes are 3J/gram/K
[01:53] <Laurenceb> then air/exhaust can be forced in and out rapidly and give a buoyancy change
[01:53] <SpeedEvil> you know of rotary bed heat exchangers?
[01:53] <Laurenceb> yes
[01:54] <Laurenceb> but that doesnt store the heat somewhere else
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[01:54] <Laurenceb> you need to stick the heat into a liquid or solid to change buoyancy
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[01:55] <Laurenceb> only issue is the fire risk
[01:55] <Laurenceb> ... only
[01:55] <SpeedEvil> :)
[01:55] Nick change: DL7AD1 -> DL7AD
[01:55] <Laurenceb> maybe an exhaust scrubber (electrostatic)
[01:55] <Laurenceb> http://marine.man.eu/docs/librariesprovider6/technical-papers/soot-deposits-and-fires-in-exhaust-gas-boilers.pdf?sfvrsn=23
[01:56] <Laurenceb> or a pressurized water system thats isolated from the exhaust (the gas boiler system in that pdf)
[01:57] <Laurenceb> it seems to be possible to build a 1M tonne airship using E-glass composite
[01:57] <Laurenceb> just need pultruded tubes ~2m diameter
[01:58] <SpeedEvil> you mean as a syntactic tank?
[01:58] <Laurenceb> only about $150M worth of fibreglass total
[01:58] <SpeedEvil> Or for structure
[01:59] <Laurenceb> a structure
[01:59] <Laurenceb> problem with huge airships is the compressive stress along the top
[01:59] <Laurenceb> looks like its solvable using glass fibre tubes
[02:02] <SpeedEvil> gas filled?
[02:08] <Laurenceb> no, thats actually worse
[02:08] <Laurenceb> compression strength of composites is pretty complex
[02:09] <SpeedEvil> I guess if you can rule out bucliking.
[02:09] <Laurenceb> yes
[02:09] <Laurenceb> its pure crush strength with only a little design effort
[02:09] <Laurenceb> glass fibre crush strength is almost twice the tensile strength
[02:09] <Laurenceb> but the fibres buckle within the matrix
[02:09] <Laurenceb> so its gets really complex
[02:10] <Laurenceb> it seems you need ~<1 degree rms fibre wobble to approach half the fibre crush strength for the composite
[02:10] <SpeedEvil> carbon carbon composite
[02:10] <Laurenceb> but its a function of the resin too
[02:11] <Laurenceb> carbon carbon is crazy expensive
[02:11] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[02:11] <SpeedEvil> slow, and needs a massive autoclave
[02:11] <SpeedEvil> at stupid temps
[02:15] <Laurenceb> http://www2.mae.ufl.edu/haftka/composites/Compressive%20Strength%20Presentation.pdf
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[09:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL5APR_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL5APR_chase
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[09:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LCARS_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LCARS_chase
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[09:32] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DL0CRE-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL0CRE-11
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[09:57] <Oddstr13> I found a clip-on ferrite core on a old computer PSU :D
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[10:12] <EdwArduino> nice
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[10:13] <fsphil> always handy to have
[10:17] <mfa298> not to be confused with ferrets
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[10:18] <fsphil> who are handy if you need to run some cables
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[11:02] <EdwArduino> What resource would best to check to figure out what altitude a zero pressure balloon will float at?
[11:07] <EdwArduino> Ah, "Float altitude for a zero-pressure balloon is achieved when the weight of the balloon and lifting gas equal the weight of the displaced air."
[11:07] Nick change: AndyEsse1 -> AndyEsser
[11:07] <AndyEsser> morning campers
[11:08] <EdwArduino> morn'
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[12:34] <AndyEsser> https://twitter.com/LeadHyperion/status/675653982489038848
[12:34] <AndyEsser> :)
[12:39] <EdwArduino> Has anyone heard of a balloon going up and using air as a ballast?
[12:39] <EdwArduino> Besides the google loon
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[12:43] <Laurenceb> easier to do superpressure at small scales
[12:46] <EdwArduino> From what I've read. It's difficult for an amateur to get in to super pressure.
[12:47] <Laurenceb> its difficult but doable
[12:47] <Laurenceb> if you can't make superpressure work you cant make air ballast work
[12:48] <Laurenceb> air ballast is much harder than superpressure
[12:49] <Laurenceb> but air ballast might just be doable with the right pump
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[13:14] <AndyEsser> woo! RS232 serial interface between uC and laptop working :)
[13:14] <AndyEsser> bad idea to write a CLI on the chip now? :)
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[13:56] <fsphil> rite of passage that
[14:00] <AndyEsser> fsphil: the CLI?
[14:00] <fsphil> yeah :)
[14:00] <Hiena> Arc welding in shorts and flipflops? Using angle grinder without guards? Topping tree with electric chainsaw and ladder?
[14:01] <AndyEsser> fsphil: It seems like a useful debugging tool :)
[14:01] Action: SpeedEvil rocks his flippy-floppies.
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[14:08] <AndyEsser> https://twitter.com/LeadHyperion/status/675678579359883269
[14:08] <AndyEsser> :)
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[14:16] <fsphil> excellent
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[14:18] <AndyEsser> fsphil: not convinced this is a good use of the limited processing power :)
[14:18] <AndyEsser> ha
[14:19] <fsphil> well I was going to suggest a login, but yeah...
[14:19] <AndyEsser> was going to do functionality similar to routers/switches - some stuff can be done anonymously, other can be done by elevating the prompt :)
[14:20] <AndyEsser> ie writing config to the EEPROM
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[14:55] <Hix> Had a look on the wiki but couldn't find it. At the 2013 conf Ed gave a talk on GPS. Has anyone got the ipynb file that he used for the demo? Was it even available?
[14:56] <AndyEsser> eroomde might be around to help :)
[14:56] <Hix> ah. U thought he'd changed to edmoore, hence autocomplete failed :)
[14:57] <Hix> s/U/I
[14:58] <Hix> another question. Has anyone used d3.js in relation to a HAB flight? I've been starting to learn it recently. Wondered if anyone has been doing anything fun with it
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[15:04] <dbrooke> Hiena: shorts and flipflops? - sounds perfectly reasonable, given the instructions for my welder: http://www.dbrooke.org.uk/photos/misc/sip_welder.jpg
[15:05] <dbrooke> I suspect that the current instruction book might have changed a bit
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[15:14] <AndyEsser> hmm... apparently 'unsigned' has no effect on an int on my 328p :(
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[15:17] <fsphil> what's up?
[15:18] <AndyEsser> it overflows to negative at ~32000
[15:19] <fsphil> check it's not the function you're using to print/convert to string that's at fault
[15:19] <AndyEsser> would've expected an unsigned 16-bit int to go from 0->65535
[15:19] <AndyEsser> o herp derp
[15:21] <AndyEsser> gah, and I appear to have b0rked the chip somehow :(
[15:24] <Hiena> If you borked, that means you worked on it. uC design's thumbrule, if you buys one, buy it two or four. One for playin', one for smoking, one for testing, and one for the final product.
[15:25] <AndyEsser> I bought 5 ;)
[15:25] <AndyEsser> because I knew I'd b0rk it
[15:25] <AndyEsser> although a reset seems to have fixed it (at least the programming bit)
[15:25] <AndyEsser> it's still spewing garbage on the RS232 interface, so imagine I might've knocked a wire lose
[15:41] <fsphil> yay breadboard
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[15:54] <Laurenceb> http://www.rcmart.hk/rcx-h2208-1100kv-multirotor-outrunner-brushless-motor-motion-balanced-p-8782.html
[15:54] <Laurenceb> red text...
[15:57] <Ian_> Hix - don't know if you found the GPS talk, but no one seemed to answer your question
[15:58] <Ian_> Linkys here https://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2013
[15:58] <Hix> Ian_: it wasn't the vides of the talk. It was the ipynb doc i was after. I believe eroomde had it in dropbox but I cant find the link
[15:58] <Hix> thanks anyhow though :)
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[16:25] <Ian_> Ah, sorry misunderstood, have you grepped the IRC logs for ipnyb?
[16:31] <Ian_> ipynb grep of logs during December came up dry except for today . . .
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[16:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0RPI_N4_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0RPI_N4_chase
[16:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03777_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=777_chase
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[17:06] <Laurenceb> https://www.festo.com/net/SupportPortal/Files/42088/HeiDAS_UH_en.pdf
[17:11] <adamgreig> anyone used a T962 for reflow?
[17:13] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Interesting. I guess at scale, thermal losses are irrelevant.
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> Plus, you can virtually dump heat by spray
[17:14] <Laurenceb> well at large scale buoyancy control is a pain, and steam only makes things worse
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> Also - cites Jules Verne, Franklin, ...
[17:14] <Laurenceb> due to high heat capacity
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[17:15] <Laurenceb> but its an interesting project
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> What's the cooling power if you spray water on the inside front surface of an airship skin underway?
[17:16] <Laurenceb> the problem is that the water needs to be cooled itself
[17:17] <SpeedEvil> yes, I mean to cool the water so as to be able to condense steam.
[17:17] <SpeedEvil> (perhaps with a reservoir)
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[18:20] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:57] <fsphil> evening
[18:58] bvernoux (~Ben@chl26-1-88-183-104-56.fbx.proxad.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:58] <bvernoux> hi
[18:59] <bvernoux> hello does anyone here use airspy SDR ?
[18:59] <fsphil> a few have one
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[19:01] <bvernoux> does some have posted some comparisons of different SDR for radiosonde purpose ?
[19:03] <fsphil> I've used a few SDRs now, not really done a direct comparison
[19:04] <fsphil> Upu did some tests but not with sondes, mostly ADS-B
[19:04] <bvernoux> ok
[19:04] <bvernoux> I was more interested about sondes
[19:04] <fsphil> yeah. it does seem to work well
[19:05] <bvernoux> will be intersting to have feedback about latest AirSpy R2
[19:05] <fsphil> yeah, mine is the original model
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> btw trailer
[19:09] <fsphil> random
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> http://gerblook.org/pcb/ybdPFx5z8hYM7k82oJg82Y#front
[19:09] <Lunar_Lander> (not to be built, just to fill a boring afternoon :))
[19:09] <fsphil> ooh breakout
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:11] <fsphil> I'm messing with linker scripts
[19:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB8ELK-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-1
[19:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KJ4TDM-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ4TDM-1
[19:11] <Lunar_Lander> hope it works well :)
[19:12] <fsphil> it's all very odd
[19:12] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[19:13] <fsphil> saturday night, living the dream
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[19:15] <Lunar_Lander> also thinking about new experiments
[19:15] <AndyEsser> fsphil: Exciting Saturday night ;)
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[19:16] <Lunar_Lander> this one for instance http://www.anasphere.com/slwc.php
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[19:22] <Lunar_Lander> would be interesting to build one
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[19:40] <Lunar_Lander> also the long lasting ozone project :)
[19:43] <AndyEsser> Ah, Dhiren Kataria was at UKHAS 2015?
[19:44] <fsphil> was indeed
[19:44] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7KujrsUB1w&feature=youtu.be&t=2h16m44s
[19:45] <AndyEsser> I had a 6 week placement at MSSL between Lower-Sixth and Upper Sixth
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[19:45] <AndyEsser> he was my 'boss'
[19:45] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[19:46] <AndyEsser> Yea, it was a cool 6-week placement that sadly I didn't take full advantage of :(
[19:46] Action: AndyEsser slaps past Andy
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[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[19:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N4XWC-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
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[20:15] <chrisstubbs> Evening
[20:15] <AndyEsser> o/
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[20:16] <chrisstubbs> How is your battle with avrdude going?
[20:21] <AndyEsser> got it sorted :)
[20:21] <AndyEsser> Got it happily programming last night
[20:21] <Upu> hey AndyEsser
[20:21] <chrisstubbs> Nice :)
[20:21] <Upu> sorry was afk last night
[20:22] <AndyEsser> grabbed a MAX232 this morning and been working on a RS232 interface between the chip and my laptop :)
[20:22] <AndyEsser> Upu: no worries - sorry for bugging you anyway :)
[20:22] <Upu> no worries
[20:23] <AndyEsser> Need to firm up my 'framework' and get EEPROM read/write working nicely - then off to order the GPS modules and NTX :)
[20:23] <AndyEsser> that'll likely be my goal next week
[20:23] <AndyEsser> then once that's all behaving - get some proper PCB's made up :)
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:26] <AndyEsser> had planned on doing my first launch in June/July but might be ready to do it sooner (like March)
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[20:26] <AndyEsser> depending on winds
[20:27] <Upu> yeah you seem to be getting on
[20:27] <Upu> mind you wait till you need to get the GPS and radio working together
[20:27] <AndyEsser> I'm actually quite impressed with how little c*ck ups I've made ;)
[20:27] <AndyEsser> it's very out of character ;)
[20:27] <AndyEsser> s/little/few
[20:28] <AndyEsser> Upu: heh yea
[20:30] <AndyEsser> Do people use any 'tricks' to measure battery voltage (like using the ADC) or are there better IC's to get for it?
[20:30] <AndyEsser> hmm, actually, suspect the ADC won't work
[20:31] <fsphil> some AVRs have an internal reference you can use to measure VCC
[20:31] <fsphil> measure VCC against*
[20:32] <fsphil> still need a voltage divider
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> I did a pot.div. connected to an ADC pin
[20:32] <AndyEsser> Ah, apparently "band gap" is how it's done
[20:32] <AndyEsser> Lunar_Lander: but wouldn't AVref just be the same voltage? and therefore alwasys ready as 100%?
[20:33] <fsphil> so if you had a 1.1v reference, setup the divider to drop your input voltage so the max is never above 1.1v into the adc
[20:33] <AndyEsser> fsphil: ah gotcha
[20:33] <Upu> AVR internal is good enough for measuring the battery
[20:33] <Upu> just smooth it
[20:33] <fsphil> the reference should be accurate as long as vin is above it
[20:33] <Upu> as its a bit up and down
[20:33] <fsphil> not sure what options the 328p have
[20:34] <Upu> internal/external refernece
[20:34] <AndyEsser> ok, so if Vmax is 5v then I just need a potential divider set up so that 5v = 1.1v out of the pot divider
[20:34] <fsphil> ah yea, has a 1.1v reference
[20:34] <AndyEsser> and measure against that
[20:34] <AndyEsser> fsphil: yea, just reading up on it now
[20:34] <fsphil> you'd generally want to measure your battery voltage directly
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:34] <fsphil> rather than the output of your regulator
[20:34] <AndyEsser> hmm
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:34] <AndyEsser> I suspect that makes more sense
[20:35] <AndyEsser> as it'll just be...5v 5v 5v 5v 5v dead....
[20:35] <AndyEsser> :P
[20:35] <fsphil> so if you had a 10v max input, have a 10:1 divider, so the adc input would be 1v max
[20:35] <fsphil> well even the vreg would drop before it cuts out
[20:35] <fsphil> you just wouldn't see anything above 5v
[20:35] <AndyEsser> Yea, that should be easy enough, I'm using 9v battery atm but those aren't exactly 9v so a 10:1 PD would work
[20:36] <AndyEsser> I shall test :)
[20:37] <fsphil> a few caps on the adc input would do no harm either
[20:37] <fsphil> smooth it out a bit
[20:37] <AndyEsser> 0.1 uF on ALL TEH THINGS
[20:39] <fsphil> decouple the world
[20:42] Nick change: fl__0 -> fl_0
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[20:51] <AndyEsser> what happened to plain old english language in datasheets
[20:51] <AndyEsser> *sigh*
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[21:22] <AndyEsser> gah... frustrating how every search for this uC turns up Arduino examples
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[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> which uc
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[21:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PS-57 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-57
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[21:27] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: I think you were talking about HackRF the other week.
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[21:27] <mfa298> I came across this which might be interesting http://www.proxmark.org/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=12402#p12402
[21:27] <mfa298> someones notes (and I think links to installers) for gnuradio on windows
[21:27] <mfa298> not that I've tried it out yet
[21:28] <SpeedEvil> AndyEsser: Plain old english was deprecated in favour of marketing lies some decades ago.
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[21:29] <AndyEsser> Lunar_Lander: ATmega328p
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:30] <AndyEsser> which I imagine is the heart of a model of arduino
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> you want to program it "without arduino"?
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> it is
[21:33] <AndyEsser> at least once I've gotten my head around all this I can abstract stuff away into a neater interface
[21:33] <mfa298> you should be able to find all the datasheets on the atmel site, although sometimes the useful stuff is in the various app notes
[21:35] <AndyEsser> Yea, that's what I'm working my way through now
[21:35] <AndyEsser> given up with google searches now ;)
[21:35] <AndyEsser> I'll print them all out next week when I'm back at work
[21:35] <AndyEsser> I'm sure they'll appreciate me printing ~600 pages ;)
[21:36] <mfa298> isn't that what works for :)
[21:37] <AndyEsser> heh
[21:37] <AndyEsser> true ;)
[21:37] <AndyEsser> just need to make sure I don't send it to the A0 plotter by accident ;)
[21:37] <AndyEsser> ha
[21:37] <Laurenceb> avr is simple enough that you can print of the datasheet and keep it in a lever arch folder
[21:37] <Laurenceb> I have atmega168 on my bookshelf
[21:38] <mfa298> annoyingly most of the printers we have around work are 6x4" photo printers, I'm not sure that would work so well for a datasheet.
[21:38] <AndyEsser> well, I believe I have the ADC set up correctly, at least the value varies depending on whether the ADC input is Gnd or the output from my pot. divider - although not quite the value I would expect
[21:38] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb: yep - that'd be my plan
[21:38] <AndyEsser> it's such a nice and simple uC - I think I may well use it for a lot of things
[21:38] <Laurenceb> but I havent used an avr for 8 years
[21:38] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> AHH PS-57 is up :)
[21:38] <Laurenceb> so its going a bit yellow
[21:38] <AndyEsser> heh
[21:39] <fsphil> atmega324p, has two uarts
[21:39] <Laurenceb> I moved onto arm within a year or two of learning avr
[21:40] <chris_99> theres only like 1? DIP arm though alas
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[21:43] <AndyEsser> fsphil: it does?
[21:43] <fsphil> aye
[21:43] <AndyEsser> o 324... sorry misread
[21:43] <fsphil> otherwise pretty much the same as the 328
[21:43] <Laurenceb> no need for dip now chinapcb is dirt cheap and fast
[21:43] <AndyEsser> right... I'm having a dense moment
[21:43] <AndyEsser> Can I do some rubber duck debugging?
[21:44] <chris_99> true Laurenceb
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[21:44] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb: I had originally planned to use a PIC32 in a 64-pin TQFP package
[21:45] <AndyEsser> but my mind refused to manage to draw a PCB layout for it
[21:45] <AndyEsser> ha
[21:45] <Laurenceb> heh
[21:45] <mfa298> only annoying thing with the dip versions is the 324 is also wider than the 328, so there's less space on the stripboard
[21:45] <Laurenceb> I'm never quite sure what to think of pic32
[21:45] <AndyEsser> so thought I'd start simple, and then move later
[21:45] <Laurenceb> some benchmarks make it look quite impressive
[21:45] <fsphil> oh yes, the DIP version is bigger
[21:45] <fsphil> forgot about that
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[21:46] <AndyEsser> so, I've switched the ADMUX to the internal 1.1v reference
[21:46] <AndyEsser> I then read the value on ADC PIN 5 - which has the 'output' from my 10k:1k potential divider
[21:47] <AndyEsser> currently using a 9v PP3 power source, so max voltage from the battery is ~9.5v (hence the 10:1 pd)
[21:47] <chris_99> ive used pic32 for usb stuff, which it seemed pretty good for, but arm chips have a lot high MHz
[21:47] <chris_99> *higher
[21:47] <AndyEsser> currently, the 9v battery is reading ~6v on the multimeter, and the output from the pd is ~0.5-0.6v
[21:48] <AndyEsser> the value I'm getting from the ADC is ~120 though
[21:48] <AndyEsser> wait... if the ADC value is a char/byte then that is rougly 50% which is about right...
[21:49] <AndyEsser> but it's a 10-bit ADC, so max value should be 1024
[21:49] <fsphil> depends how you configured it
[21:49] <fsphil> the two LSBs can be in another register
[21:52] <AndyEsser> just change it to reading ADCL and ADCH separately, just to check I'm not missing the other 2-bits, and the high byte is zero
[21:52] <AndyEsser> changed*
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> there is a german song by "fanta 4" about all those abbreviations you use in the daily life
[21:53] <Lunar_Lander> :D
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[22:07] <AndyEsser> What's floating-point support like on these things?
[22:09] <AndyEsser> nvm, just simply having a float variable results in an extra 1.8k in the executable, so guess it's emulated in software
[22:10] <fsphil> non-existant, on the hardware level
[22:11] <AndyEsser> yea, just guessed that ;)
[22:15] <AndyEsser> forgotten how much I rely on being able to use floating point...
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[22:35] <AndyEsser> *sigh* my mind is clearly not in a state in do the maths needed
[22:35] <AndyEsser> ha
[22:41] <Lunar_Lander> yea floats are a problem
[22:42] <AndyEsser> if I could use floats, then this problem solves itself instantly :P
[22:42] <AndyEsser> ha
[22:42] <fsphil> pretend
[22:42] <fsphil> (aka fixed-point)
[22:43] <AndyEsser> hmm, could d
[22:43] <AndyEsser> could do*
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[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> your balloon will float
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[22:46] <AndyEsser> hahaha
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> joking
[22:46] <AndyEsser> knowing my luck it'll plummet, land on CERN, and create a blackhole
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> are you from CH?
[22:47] <AndyEsser> no
[22:47] <AndyEsser> UK
[22:47] <AndyEsser> sorry to disappoint
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:47] <fsphil> well, if CERN get it wrong everywhere will be in CH
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[22:48] <AndyEsser> You mean... everything will be..... Swiss Cheese...
[22:48] Action: AndyEsser puts sunglasses on
[22:48] <Ian_> More CN than CH :)
[22:49] <Ian_> Might clear some of their smog though!
[22:49] <fsphil> black holes are stupid
[22:49] <fsphil> oh sorry
[22:49] <fsphil> dense
[22:50] <gonzo__nb> a bit heavy for this time of night
[22:50] <fsphil> yeah, that joke sucked
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Holes_and_Revelations
[22:51] <gonzo__nb> it hav gravity
[22:51] <gonzo__nb> d
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[23:15] <Vaizki> evening..
[23:15] <AndyEsser> o/
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[23:16] <Lunar_Lander> finland lost :(
[23:16] <Vaizki> ah you're still alive even after listening to my advice
[23:16] <Vaizki> Lunar_Lander: lost what? I keep losing count
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[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> starcraft II tournament
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[23:19] <Vaizki> oh I think you have me mixed up with my 15 year old son, he seems to have an interest in SC II .. :)
[23:19] <fsphil> OH NO
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> ohhhh
[23:20] <Vaizki> me.. well.. SC original.. that was ok in school :D
[23:21] <Vaizki> that would be uni, not primary school...
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[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:22] <Vaizki> personally I remember Dune II as the defining RTS for myself..
[23:22] <Vaizki> I was a bit past gaming when SC came out
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> ah :)
[23:23] <Vaizki> my wife is younger so she's a TAer.. ;)
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[23:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:26] <fsphil> total annihilation?
[23:26] <Vaizki> yea
[23:26] <fsphil> aah great game
[23:27] <Vaizki> yes when we moved together, the only games she saved were TA and Dungeon Master II ..
[23:27] <Vaizki> good taste!
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[23:28] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: your advice?
[23:28] <fsphil> we played TA at a lan party a few times
[23:28] <Vaizki> none of those old games work on modern OSs of course but luckily there's GoG
[23:28] <fsphil> one of those games where you start playing then suddenly its 5am and the sun is up
[23:28] <AndyEsser> OpenTTD does that to me
[23:29] <Vaizki> not in finland it isn't
[23:29] <Vaizki> have to play until 10am ;)
[23:29] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[23:29] <fsphil> haha
[23:29] <fsphil> except in summer
[23:30] <Vaizki> well in the summer time of course the sun doesn't set at all in northern Finland and even here down south it comes up around 2am or something
[23:30] <AndyEsser> sun is overrated
[23:30] <fsphil> I would like to see the sun at midnight sometime
[23:30] <Vaizki> google: utsjoki sunrise
[23:31] <Vaizki> google knows when the sun will be up there :)
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[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> ah I think I saw a newspaper clipping witht hat :)
[23:33] <fsphil> not so much solar power :)
[23:33] <Vaizki> truth be told, even though the sun doesn't officially rise there, it's still light enough in the daytime to get stuff done without any additional light... at least for a few hours
[23:35] <Vaizki> it's like early dawn light.. from about 10am to 2pm
[23:35] <Vaizki> rest of the time it's night
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=utsjoki+sunrise&dataset=
[23:37] <Vaizki> and in helsinki, 9:17 for sunrise and 15:13 for sunset
[23:38] <Vaizki> so we have it easier...
[23:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:39] <Vaizki> fsphil: seems like insolation tops out at 5 kWh/m2/day in Utsjoki
[23:40] <Vaizki> but it's under 0.1 for 4 months of the year or so
[23:57] <AndyEsser> GAH!!!
[23:57] Action: AndyEsser smashes keyboard
[23:58] <Lunar_Lander> ohhhhhhh
[23:58] <fsphil> drama
[00:00] --- Sun Dec 13 2015