highaltitude.log.20151211

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[00:45] <Laurenceb> this is different
[00:45] <Laurenceb> http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20110010960.pdf
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[08:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DL0CRE-11 after 0318 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL0CRE-11
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[08:57] <AndyEsser> morning habbers
[09:00] <fsphil> friday. woo
[09:00] <AndyEsser> woo!
[09:01] <AndyEsser> Soo.... my stupid mind decided to make me dream last night that I managed to get a payload to 150km
[09:01] <AndyEsser> whut...
[09:01] <fsphil> rockets ftw
[09:02] <AndyEsser> Yep :)
[09:02] <AndyEsser> it was a HAB, with 4 rockets strapped to the payload
[09:07] <AndyEsser> I think that might mean my mind is spending too much time thinking about this stuff ;)
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[09:09] <fsphil> I've fixed bugs in my sleep before. brains are weird
[09:10] <AndyEsser> Haha o yea
[09:10] <AndyEsser> I've learnt now, if I'm up until 2am trying to fix something
[09:11] <AndyEsser> just go to sleep
[09:11] <AndyEsser> I'll fix it within 30 mins of waking up and being back at my desk
[09:11] <AndyEsser> rather than spending another 6 hours bashing away at it
[09:16] <gonzo_> daft ideas usually come to me during beer, rather than sleep
[09:17] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:17] <gonzo_> but the bit of the brain that protects most people and makes them write it off as 'the beer talking', seemd to be missing in me
[09:18] <AndyEsser> so you interpret it all as "A Good Idea (TM)"?
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[09:18] <gonzo_> collect the bits of drawings on beer mats, double check the maths and start calling the previous eve's co-conspiritors
[09:18] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:20] <gonzo_> to which they replky 'er what... you mean...' and soon turns into 'well actually, if you did it this way.....'
[09:20] <gonzo_> so my friends are not much helpo in avoiding silly ideas
[09:22] <fsphil> any good humidity sensors with digital output and are not crap? (not for HAB use, monitoring conditions inside an enclosure)
[09:26] <fsphil> I had used a dht22 before and it's a bit rubbish. failed after a few weeks
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[09:50] <daveake> fsphil How about the BME280?
[09:50] <daveake> It's like the 180/085 with humidity added
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[09:55] <fsphil> that's so tiny
[09:55] <fsphil> ah spi, 3.3v. looks good
[09:56] <daveake> I have one here somewhere, so I can code it up for pits
[09:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DF2ET_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DF2ET_chase
[09:59] <Chimpusmaximus> I use a HTU21D-F currently to monitor my 3d filament storage.
[10:02] <ntx2> Hi: I have been using the regular small antenna that comes with the DVB USB connector for my testing
[10:02] <ntx2> now I want to use a 70cm antenna and I bought one on ebay.
[10:03] <ntx2> but I need a connector which is compatible with the DVB USB connector...
[10:03] <ntx2> what should I buy? What I have looks like this - http://imgur.com/a/spHDG
[10:03] <daveake> You didn't mean "DVB USB connector"
[10:03] <AndyEsser> cut the wires, and use leccy tape :)
[10:03] <AndyEsser> ^ don't do this
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[10:04] <daveake> That's BNC so you need an adapter or (better) short cable with BNC socket one and and whatever-plug-fits-your-dongle on the other
[10:07] <daveake> This SDR comes with one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-version-R820T2-tuner-RTL2832U-RTL-SDR-USB-Stick-BNC-pigtail-/191737075688?hash=item2ca46b97e8:g:tgUAAOSw-7RVCFqj
[10:08] <daveake> If yours is also MCX (you didn't say) then you need the same thing, e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cable-BNC-Female-Bulkhead-Jack-To-MCX-Male-Plug-Right-Angle-Pigtail-Cable-RG316-/381313121465?hash=item58c8087cb9:g:cKkAAOSw3ydVkniT
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[10:23] <ntx2> sorry!! about that.
[10:24] <ntx2> Something is up with my chrome that disconnects me from IRC
[10:24] <ntx2> I was wondering why there was no response to my question about the connector :)
[10:25] <ntx2> Dave: I saw your message about a brand but the screen refreshed before I could click on it
[10:25] <ntx2> if I have a HABAmp
[10:25] <ntx2> will that make a difference...?
[10:27] <AndyEsser> 10:04:36< daveake> That's BNC so you need an adapter or (better) short cable with BNC socket one and and whatever-plug-fits-your-dongle on the other
[10:27] <AndyEsser> 10:07:30< daveake> This SDR comes with one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-version-R820T2-tuner-RTL2832U-RTL-SDR-USB-Stick-BNC-pigtail-/191737075688?hash=item2ca46b97e8:g:tgUAAOSw-7RVCFqj
[10:27] <AndyEsser> 10:08:21< daveake> If yours is also MCX (you didn't say) then you need the same thing, e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cable-BNC-Female-Bulkhead-Jack-To-MCX-Male-Plug-Right-Angle-Pigtail-Cable-RG316-/381313121465?hash=item58c8087cb9:g:cKkAAOSw3ydVkniT
[10:28] <ntx2> Thanks AndyEsser
[10:29] <ntx2> The HABamps are not being sold anymore? Google is not leading me to the store where it is sold
[10:32] <SpeedEvil> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=72_80
[10:32] <SpeedEvil> 8 in stock
[10:36] <ntx2> Thanks!
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[10:44] <UpuWork> first link on google for "habamp" is Habamp :/
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[10:53] <SpeedEvil> that's what I saw too.
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[12:00] <AndyEsser> I leave work in an hour and still no sign of my programmer :(
[12:01] <eroomde> where did you last put him/her?
[12:01] <eroomde> stuck in the loo?
[12:01] <AndyEsser> *sigh*
[12:01] <AndyEsser> Not the first person to make that joke
[12:03] <fsphil> some say he/she only sees the world in green and black
[12:13] <daveake> and loops tracks in a flash
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[12:22] <fsphil> they compile with -O
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[12:46] <AndyEsser> Yay, I have relays and transistors that have arrived, but still no programmer
[12:46] <AndyEsser> guess I'm just going to have to come back to the office
[13:09] <fsphil> yes I was hoping for stuff to arrive too, no sign of it. aww
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[13:20] <craag> sarantel+saw+lna+ublox8 !
[13:20] <craag> bet that can get a lock even around mattbrejza
[13:21] <craag> ( http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=51 )
[13:22] <fsphil> does the LNA even help there?
[13:22] <Chimpusmaximus> Must resist... My office is starting to look like a warehouse
[13:23] <chris_99> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=121 <-- does anyone know what Pis that would work with
[13:24] <Chimpusmaximus> I believe any o the newer models with 40pin gpio
[13:25] <craag> Yep, pi2, a+, b+
[13:25] <chris_99> aha, cheers guys
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[13:36] <mtty> hello - has anyone used a UV sensor on their flight to gauge UV radiation at different altitudes on their flights? I am using a raspberry pi in my payload and I am not sure which is a good UV sensor which is pi compatible
[13:37] <mtty> there are many that give UV index but not strength and type of UV radiation
[13:39] <chris_99> wouldn't you need a diffraction grating or something to work out the type of UV?
[13:40] <mtty> sorry...did not follow
[13:41] <gonzo_> was't that the original question?
[13:42] <gonzo_> are there any sensors where the sensitive wavelength was speced
[13:42] <chris_99> if you want to tell which UV is most prevalent e.g. A,B,C, you'd need a spectrometer i'd have thought
[13:43] <gonzo_> or sensors sensitive vto specific band
[13:43] <gonzo_> if sensors are wide bend, possible adding filters ?
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[13:44] <chris_99> yup you're right, you can get sensors for specific bands apparently http://www.vernier.com/products/sensors/uv-sensors/uva-bta/
[13:44] <mtty> I have tried TSL235R photo diode which claims to be sensitive to the UV frequency
[13:45] <mtty> Do not know if this is the right sensor at all
[13:45] <SpeedEvil> Is it not sensible to visible light?
[13:45] <SpeedEvil> because otherwise,t hat will overwhelm
[13:46] <mtty> it is sensitive to visible light also, true
[13:47] <EdwArduino> Hello, I was reading that the UK High altitude society has launched balloons flights with long durations. I was wondering if there was any information on those flights available?
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[13:48] <EdwArduino> I find what I'm looking for immediately after asking the question.
[13:48] <EdwArduino> Thank you anyways :).
[13:48] <zyp> glad we could be of help
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:51] <mtty> SpeedEvil - what happens if it is sensitive to visible light? The spec sheet does not tell me how to discern the wavelength ...so I am guessing that this is not the sensor for my test
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> mtty: it outputs the total amount of response curve integrated against the incoming spectrum
[13:52] <mtty> I am new to electronics and it is possible that I am not reading the specs correctly also :(
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> In other words, it may output '1' for visible light and '.05' for UV
[13:52] <SpeedEvil> 1.05V
[13:53] <SpeedEvil> But you can't tell what's UV and visible, and if the visible light varies by 10%, it's useless
[13:53] <mtty> what do you mean by "visible light varies by 10%"?
[13:56] <EdwArduino> There is visible light. And UV light.
[13:56] <EdwArduino> The sensor may be sensitive to both.
[13:57] <EdwArduino> Particulates and the composition of the atmosphere can change how much light and or uv light reaches the sensor.
[13:59] <EdwArduino> Check out this image of a spectral recording of the sun.
[13:59] <EdwArduino> https://media.8ch.net/hamradio/src/1411629343735.gif
[14:00] <EdwArduino> The presence of some gases changes how much light is received at certain wavelengths.
[14:01] <mtty> Thanks
[14:01] <mtty> that makes sense
[14:02] <mtty> What I am trying to do is to have a UV sensor and an Ozone sensor to show how ozone affects UV
[14:02] <mtty> sure, this is not perfectly scientific
[14:06] <mtty> this is why I am looking for a sensor that can identify the UV rays coming in
[14:06] <mtty> and if possible show its strength also
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[14:07] <EdwArduino> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Analog+UV+Light+Sensor
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[14:07] <EdwArduino> Adafruit has them. Amazon has them.
[14:08] <mtty> I have GUVA-S12SD too :)
[14:08] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[14:08] <mtty> but it only gives the UV index
[14:08] <mtty> and also I am guessing that after a certain altitude it will just give me an index of 10
[14:09] <mattbrejza> i think youll still want a UV pass filter on that though, itll probably be more sensitive to IR than youd want
[14:09] <mtty> which does not help
[14:10] <mtty> a UV pass filter will only allow UV to pass through, right?
[14:10] <mattbrejza> thats what you want?
[14:10] <nick_> Probably UV + anything higher frequency.
[14:10] <mtty> so we are increasing the sensitivity of the sensor, I guess?
[14:11] <mattbrejza> (i havnt read the backscroll that well)
[14:11] <EdwArduino> I would read the datasheet for that board you have.
[14:11] <mtty> but sensors like GUVA-S12SD and its digital equivalent SI1145 provide a UV index
[14:12] <EdwArduino> And what's a UV index?
[14:13] <mtty> It is what weather forecasters tell people when to put on sunscreen
[14:13] <mtty> basically it is a scale of 1 to 10
[14:13] <mtty> the higher the number, the higher the risk of sun burn
[14:14] <mtty> maybe I will send one of these up in my payload to test my theory that the UV index might max out at 10 at some altitude
[14:14] <mtty> :)
[14:14] <EdwArduino> According to the datasheet. It should go up to a UV index of 15.
[14:15] <nick_> mtty: if you want to make measurements on UV light I think the best way would be with a UV lamp in a lab, not sending a baloon up.
[14:15] <mtty> nick: sure...but the experiment is to confirm the effect of ozone on UV
[14:16] <mattbrejza> well you can always change the gain of the sensor if you wanted more range
[14:16] <mtty> I see....that is a good idea
[14:16] <nick_> But much more than the amount of ozone will change as you go up in altitude.
[14:17] <mtty> sure...
[14:17] <mattbrejza> ozone doesnt absorb all UV though, you might want a UVA/B/C filters on three sensors
[14:17] <nick_> Whereas in a lab you can control other things while playing with the amount of ozone.
[14:17] <mtty> I am doing this test with my son....since he is studying atmosphere, ozone etc in his school
[14:18] <mtty> and not to mention I am waiting for weather to improve for my launch
[14:18] <mtty> and so I thought this is a good test to add :)
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[14:32] <mtty> Thanks folks
[14:32] <mtty> I found this sensor ML8511 which might partially do what I want
[14:33] <mtty> I might just connect two of these with two filters (one for UV A) and another for UV B
[14:33] <mtty> and that might do the trick
[14:33] <mtty> I had not thought of the UV filter idea....so now I feel it might be able to get me what I need
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[14:41] <mtty> thanks bye
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[15:08] <fab4space> hello all
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[15:08] <fab4space> daveake, first test decoding msgpack message (for lora-gateway) with
[15:08] <fab4space> FAB41,255,43.776680,4.236680,32010
[15:09] <fab4space> 34bytes out, 22bytes msg pack size
[15:10] <fab4space> array[string(payload_name), float(lat), float(lon), uint16(height_meters)]
[15:10] <fab4space> we can use any msgpack type of message and then decode it in a string
[15:11] <mattbrejza> there were plans for msgpack stuff to be self describing
[15:12] <mattbrejza> so you would go [payload:"BLAA", time:122334, lat: etc]
[15:12] <mattbrejza> although it was more space efficient than that
[15:12] <fab4space> yes this is supported with maps
[15:12] <mattbrejza> maps?
[15:13] <fab4space> msgpack maps
[15:13] <mattbrejza> indeed
[15:13] <fab4space> but I don't plan to resend in each telemetry packet the description of each value
[15:14] <fab4space> the rules I'm using here is to decode everything in string before uploading it to habitat
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[15:14] <fab4space> it is easy for integers, floating point and string values
[15:14] <fab4space> for arrays, I choosed to separate each item by a ","
[15:15] <mattbrejza> well yea there is the argument to be had about whether each string should be each self-describing
[15:15] <fab4space> then you can encode easily regular habitat telemetry data
[15:16] <fab4space> but the current decoder doesn't need to have the description of the packet format of the send
[15:16] <fab4space> but the current decoder doesn't need to have the description of the packet format of the sender
[15:16] <fab4space> that 's what is nice
[15:16] <mattbrejza> https://ukhas.org.uk/communication:habpack
[15:16] <mattbrejza> but not yet in habitat
[15:17] <fab4space> oh I was not aware of that , daveake didn't told me :p
[15:17] <mattbrejza> i think my android app supports it, but it just converts to a ascii string for now which isnt ideal
[15:18] <mattbrejza> that is just a draft really anyway
[15:18] <mattbrejza> could have one datatype that combines lat,long,alt,time into one to reduce the size
[15:18] <adamgreig> "position"
[15:18] <fab4space> but habitat doesn't support it yet
[15:19] <fab4space> and I plan to implement first version in lora-gateway which upload to habitat
[15:19] <mattbrejza> the other thing you could do (but isnt on that page) is to have an ID which is position deltas, so you could send lots of gps data in one packet
[15:19] <fab4space> as a string
[15:19] <mattbrejza> craag: wernt you working on habpack in daves gateway?
[15:20] <fab4space> I'm afraid that using habpack for this kind of message : FAB41,255,43.776680,4.236680,32010 wouldn't result in a good compression gain
[15:20] <fab4space> compared to msgpack to raw string
[15:21] <mattbrejza> well we've had this discussion before
[15:21] <fab4space> "95 A5 46 41 42 34 31 CC FF CA 42 2F 1B 52 CA 40 87 92 E2 CD 7D 0A"
[15:21] <mattbrejza> decided most of the time sending a few extra bytes to self describe was good
[15:21] <fab4space> 22 bytes plus one bytes for msgpack message type identifier
[15:22] <fab4space> if we need to send 10 more bytes to self describe, then there will be no gain compared to regular habitat text string
[15:22] <adamgreig> don't think you'd need ten more bytes
[15:22] <fab4space> I think we are talking about tradeoff between message size and message self description
[15:23] <mattbrejza> i dont think its 10 as the identifiers are only 1 extra byte each
[15:23] <adamgreig> yes
[15:23] <mattbrejza> since 7bit int
[15:23] <adamgreig> message self description would be really beneficial, and you'd still save bytes compared to ascii
[15:23] <adamgreig> if you really cared about short messages, msgpack is not a sensible way to go anyway
[15:23] <mattbrejza> in an example i did, msgpack takes a 53 byte message and gives 37 bytes out
[15:24] <adamgreig> just make up your own binary pdu sort of thing and write a habitat decoder for it
[15:24] <adamgreig> a nice thing about a common msgpack thing (habpack or whatever) is you could run it on habitat
[15:24] <fab4space> I will try to use habpack for my telemetry short message and see the size
[15:24] <adamgreig> so everyone with dl-fldigi can receive for it
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[15:24] <fab4space> we need to use 8 bits RTTY and contestia or OLIVIA can't be used however
[15:25] <fab4space> for lora it is always 8 bits binary messages
[15:25] <adamgreig> different issue
[15:25] <adamgreig> msgpack can encode small (7bit) integers using a single byte
[15:25] <adamgreig> it's still a byte oriented protocol
[15:25] <adamgreig> oh, I see what you mean
[15:25] <adamgreig> yes
[15:25] <adamgreig> we'd have to use 8bit RTTY
[15:25] <fab4space> yes but in dl-fldigi we need to use a modulation that gives 8bits
[15:25] <fab4space> yes
[15:25] <adamgreig> yes you're right
[15:25] <adamgreig> it's probably not a huge hardship
[15:26] <fab4space> that's why i'm focusing on lora right now
[15:26] <adamgreig> shame that contestia and olivia can't be used
[15:26] <fab4space> my message will be sent using LoRa SF10 and 10k8 bandwith
[15:26] <mattbrejza> is this a lora module with a tcxo?
[15:26] <fab4space> yes
[15:26] <mattbrejza> ah youre fine then
[15:27] <fab4space> anylink dp12with tcxo
[15:27] <fab4space> too much drift with hoperf modules
[15:27] <fab4space> time on air is 3.7 seconds with basic msgpack
[15:28] <mattbrejza> but anyway, should get msgpack in habitat at some point, i want to see how much gps data i can get down
[15:28] <fab4space> and 5.2 seconds with plain text data
[15:28] <mattbrejza> not sure if habitat would like multiple gps positions in one frame though
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[16:22] <fab4space> adamgreig, you said "just make up your own binary pdu sort of thing and write a habitat decoder for it"
[16:22] <fab4space> is there some wiki or link to do that?
[16:22] <adamgreig> no
[16:22] <adamgreig> which part?
[16:23] <adamgreig> the first one I couldn't really point you at a wiki etc
[16:23] <adamgreig> for writing a habitat decoder I could offer more help if you were interested but in general we probably odn't want someone's special snowflake binary protocol in habitat
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[16:27] <fab4space> i understand yes
[16:27] <fab4space> :)
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[17:02] <Laurenceb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piasecki_PA-97
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[17:08] Nick change: nigelvh_ -> nigelvh
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[17:42] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: that seems excellently engineered to kill people.
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[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:04] <SpeedEvil> hey
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[19:22] <AndyEsser> woop! Programmer arrived - time to brick some AVR's :)
[19:22] <chris_99> :)
[19:23] <AndyEsser> need to figure out how to set the fuses first :
[19:27] <Jartza> evenin'g
[19:27] <Jartza> :)
[19:27] <AndyEsser> o/
[19:29] <mfa298> AndyEsser: that's a great way of bricking an AVR - Especially when you set the option for a really slow clock.
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[19:33] <AndyEsser> *sigh* and it appears winavr doesn't want to behave on windows 10 :(
[19:34] <fsphil> this stuff is 90% easier on linux
[19:35] <AndyEsser> I dont doubt
[19:35] <AndyEsser> I don't have a native linux build that I can use
[19:37] Action: fsphil says as he has to recompile packages just to get his airspy working
[19:37] <AndyEsser> hehe
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[20:29] <AndyEsser> Would anyone be able to help me confirm that I've got the fuse bits configured correctly? for an ATM 328P?
[20:31] <Upu> what speed is it running at ?
[20:31] <Upu> low_fuses=0x7F
[20:31] <Upu> high_fuses=0xDA
[20:31] <Upu> extended_fuses=0xFF
[20:31] <Upu> 8Mhz external crystal
[20:31] <AndyEsser> external xtal at 7.3728 (ish)
[20:31] <Upu> those should do it I think
[20:32] <Upu> just check that doesn't set DIV/8
[20:32] <AndyEsser> -U lfuse:w:0x7d:m -U hfuse:w:0xd9:m -U efuse:w:0xff:m
[20:32] <Upu> hang on
[20:32] <AndyEsser> ok, so I don't want DIV/8?
[20:32] <Upu> that sets DIV/8
[20:33] <Upu> no it will divide the crystal /8
[20:33] <Upu> pAvaR6.bootloader.low_fuses=0xFF
[20:33] <Upu> pAvaR6.bootloader.high_fuses=0xDA
[20:33] <Upu> pAvaR6.bootloader.extended_fuses=0x05
[20:33] <Upu> (3.3V, 8 MHz) w/ ATmega328
[20:33] <AndyEsser> ta muchly
[20:33] <AndyEsser> I'm running this at 5v but that shouldn't matter should it?
[20:34] <Upu> nope
[20:34] <AndyEsser> I suspect if it drops below 3.3v then it's an issue, but then I have other issues
[20:34] <Upu> nope
[20:34] <Upu> will still work
[20:34] <Upu> other stuff may stopo
[20:34] <AndyEsser> doesn't the 328 drop out at ~3v?
[20:34] <Upu> I run the 328 @ 1.8V but you need to be below 8Mhz to do it
[20:34] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[20:34] <AndyEsser> cool
[20:35] <Upu> sorry below 4Mhz
[20:35] <Upu> so I used a 16
[20:35] <Upu> Mhz crystal and set the DIV/8 fuse so it runs @ 2Mhz
[20:35] <AndyEsser> ok, well I'm just waiting for AVR studio to finish installing so I have the USB driver for my programmer, then shall try :)
[20:35] <AndyEsser> then we'll see if I brick my first chip :)
[20:36] <AndyEsser> Upu: thanks for your assistance
[20:36] <Upu> nps
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[20:59] <fsphil> someone flew a bladerf on a balloon. *mad*
[20:59] <fsphil> or am I reading that wrong
[20:59] <chris_99> heh, i hope they found it
[21:00] <fsphil> I did read it right. yikes
[21:01] <fsphil> (last mailing list message)
[21:02] <AndyEsser> bladerf?
[21:02] gb73d (~gb73d@81-178-179-245.dsl.pipex.com) left irc:
[21:02] <fsphil> high end SDR transceiver
[21:02] <AndyEsser> http://nuand.com/
[21:02] <AndyEsser> ?
[21:02] <fsphil> yeah
[21:02] <AndyEsser> why is that madness?
[21:02] Action: AndyEsser is ignorant
[21:03] <fsphil> they're rather expensive
[21:03] <AndyEsser> ah
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> they are euroexpensive
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> means they cost many euros
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[21:05] <fsphil> despite being described as "low-cost"
[21:05] <fsphil> they're low-cost, compared with usrp I guess :)
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[21:06] <AndyEsser> heh
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[21:19] <Laurenceb> were they receiving with it?
[21:19] <fsphil> one in the payload, one on the ground
[21:20] <chris_99> what modulation scheme did they use?
[21:21] <fsphil> GMSK, 3.3kbit/s
[21:21] <fsphil> hehe, 12.5khz bandwidth
[21:21] <AndyEsser> speedy
[21:22] <fsphil> with a radio that can do mhz
[21:22] <fsphil> though it was being driven by an rpi2, doubt it could push data that fast
[21:22] <fsphil> they did manage hab<>hab comms
[21:24] <daveake> woo
[21:27] <fsphil> you should try that sometime daveake
[21:30] <daveake> I'll add it to my project list
[21:31] <AndyEsser> How long is that list?
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[21:32] <daveake> Refreshingly long
[21:32] <AndyEsser> heh
[21:33] <daveake> The weather isn't helping
[21:39] <AndyEsser> You might be in the wrong country for good weather ;)
[21:40] <fsphil> nice, wired up a uart the right way round first time
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[21:40] <fsphil> it should be 50/50, but I always seem to get it wrong
[21:40] Action: chrisstubbs applause
[21:40] <fsphil> it's like USB plugs
[21:41] <Vaizki> in Finland we say 50/60 chances.. meaning on even chances you'll probably get it wrong ;)
[21:41] <chrisstubbs> Serial port superposition
[21:41] <Vaizki> pessimistic lot, we finns
[21:43] <Vaizki> originally coined by Matti Nykänen (afaik), one of our illustrious and later flamboyantly infamous ski jumping superstars.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Nyk%C3%A4nen
[21:44] <Vaizki> the guy is a goldmine of quotes which naturally don't translate over to English very well so I shall spare you
[21:47] <Vaizki> hnngghh I just can't hold it in, sorry...! http://telefinn.blogspot.fi/2011/11/matti-nykanen-quotes.html
[21:50] <AndyEsser> good lord this software is taking it's time to install
[21:52] <Vaizki> A feeble attempt at changing the subject but I can take a hint...
[21:52] <AndyEsser> no, it wasn't
[21:52] <AndyEsser> I'm actually reading through the page you sent :)
[21:53] <AndyEsser> The odds are 50-60 :)
[21:53] <Vaizki> you have no sense of self preservation it seems
[21:53] <Vaizki> one does not simply open links posted by Finns on friday night
[21:53] <Laurenceb> http://thememesfactory.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/1239864_449331378517735_852226421_n1.jpg
[21:53] <AndyEsser> lol
[22:09] <AndyEsser> finally installed - and avrdude fails - yay
[22:12] <mfa298> Laurenceb: that reminds me of the quote at the end of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAeqVGP-GPM
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[22:43] <AndyEsser> fsphil: was it yourself that linked me the Waveshare clone programmer yesterday?
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[22:45] <fsphil> no, it was the olimex one I think
[22:45] <AndyEsser> Ah ok
[22:46] <AndyEsser> having problems with this one and was looking to see if someone had experience with it
[22:46] <AndyEsser> nvm
[22:46] Action: AndyEsser bashes away at command line
[22:48] <fsphil> what's it (not) doing?
[22:48] <AndyEsser> well, I believe it's wired to the chip ok (the status LEDs seem to react appropriately when the chip is powered etc)
[22:48] <AndyEsser> but running avrdude returns an error
[22:48] <AndyEsser> two secs
[22:48] <AndyEsser> "avrdude: usbdev_open(): did not find any USB device "usb""
[22:49] <fsphil> useful
[22:50] <AndyEsser> "avrdude -p m328p -c avrispmkII -P usb -e -U flash:w:FlightDataRecorder.hex -U lfuse:w:0xff:m -U hfuse:w:0xda:m -U efuse:w:0x05:m"
[22:50] <AndyEsser> that's my avrdude line
[22:50] <AndyEsser> if I don't have the -P usb parameter, it complains about not being able to find device //./COM1
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[22:52] <fsphil> what's the programmer you got?
[22:53] <AndyEsser> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00KM6ZA9I?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00
[22:55] <fsphil> has it came up as a serial device?
[22:55] <AndyEsser> No, it doesn't appear as a Serial/COM device, it shows up as an AVRISPMKII in Device Manager
[22:55] <Vaizki> I think it was craag who linked that
[23:06] <fsphil> can't find anywhere that explicitly says what programmer name to use for it
[23:06] <AndyEsser> Found a forum thread that looks like it might be along the same track
[23:07] <AndyEsser> http://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/avrdude-and-p-option-usb-windows
[23:08] <fsphil> hmm, drivers. fun
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[23:09] <AndyEsser> indeed
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[23:19] <AndyEsser> I err... may have just fistbumped the air :)
[23:20] <fsphil> success?
[23:21] <AndyEsser> Yep :)
[23:23] <AndyEsser> https://twitter.com/LeadHyperion/status/675455901608902657
[23:25] <fsphil> nice
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[23:26] <AndyEsser> I'm amazed that I haven't messed up the electronics, the ISP connector, or the fuse bits :)
[23:26] <AndyEsser> many thanks to yourself and everyone else :)
[23:27] <fsphil> on breadboard too
[23:27] <AndyEsser> heh yea
[23:28] <AndyEsser> Did forget to set PINC1 to be output to start with though, and that didn't work too well ;)
[23:28] <AndyEsser> kind of regretting not order GPS and NTX2b modules now :(
[23:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DO2JMG-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DO2JMG-11
[23:29] <jonsowman> the background music makes it
[23:29] <AndyEsser> hehe - I hadn't realised that audio was being recorded until I played it back on Twitter ;)
[23:30] <fsphil> "This browser does not support video playback". twitter keeps doing this on me
[23:30] <AndyEsser> but thought the theme tune to SG-1 was appropriate so kept it :)
[23:30] <fsphil> Indeed.
[23:30] <AndyEsser> :)
[23:30] <fsphil> I miss that show
[23:30] <AndyEsser> so glad chips come with built in UART's now
[23:31] <AndyEsser> I remember for my uni project having to code RS232 using assembly
[23:31] <AndyEsser> *shudder*
[23:31] <fsphil> that one only has a single uart, which is a bit annoying
[23:31] <AndyEsser> fsphil: decided to start watching it again last week, skipping some of the more boring episodes though
[23:31] <jonsowman> they come with built in crystal-less usb and everything these days
[23:31] <AndyEsser> jonsowman: yea, and 10/100 Ethernet and stuff
[23:31] <AndyEsser> kids these days are spoilt!
[23:32] <fsphil> the stm32l0 I'm playing with has like 3 usarts, usb, dac and adc's...
[23:32] <jonsowman> i do love the m0/m0+
[23:32] <daveake> Used to need a board full of ram/rom and TTL just to get a cpu to run
[23:32] <jonsowman> they are my current general purpose go-to micros
[23:32] <AndyEsser> nice, I did toy with a PIC32 which had a bunch of extra stuff, but I just couldn't get a decent PCB design for the 64-bit TQFP package, so decided to start off simple
[23:33] <fsphil> I still find the AVR a lot simpler
[23:33] <AndyEsser> err..
[23:33] <AndyEsser> 64-pint*
[23:33] <AndyEsser> o come on
[23:33] <AndyEsser> 64-pin*
[23:33] <AndyEsser> Well now I have all the programming stuff for the AVR I'll just use these for now
[23:33] <Vaizki> 64 pints of beer on the wall...
[23:33] <jonsowman> AVRs are great
[23:33] <fsphil> they're good little chips
[23:33] <AndyEsser> And I imagine for my first flight it'll be fine with just GPS and Radio
[23:33] <daveake> I could only ever manage 8-pint
[23:33] <AndyEsser> I imagine I can hook up the GPS to the UART, and then drive the NTX2b just from a standard output pin
[23:33] <jonsowman> so much nicer than PICs
[23:34] <jonsowman> in my opinion :)
[23:34] <Vaizki> AndyEsser: if you use ublox gps, I suggest i2c
[23:34] <fsphil> that's the typical approach. interrupt driven bit-banged rtty
[23:34] <AndyEsser> my only previous experience was PICs so I naturally decided to take a look at that
[23:34] <daveake> Sometimes goes the other way
[23:34] <AndyEsser> don't we all?
[23:34] <AndyEsser> err... *cough*
[23:34] <AndyEsser> :P
[23:34] <Vaizki> !
[23:35] <AndyEsser> bit-banged?
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[23:35] <Vaizki> you could drive ntx2b from a uart
[23:35] <fsphil> means doing all the hardware signaling from software
[23:35] <AndyEsser> ah
[23:35] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: I only have 1 uart
[23:35] <Vaizki> but most just bit bang it from a ISR
[23:35] <fsphil> it's a good excuse to use interrupts
[23:35] <daveake> some bit-bang even if they have 4 uarts to play with
[23:35] <Vaizki> don't use your uart for gps, just go i2c.. it's easy as pie :)
[23:35] <daveake> never understood that
[23:36] <AndyEsser> haha, googled bit-band, comes up with someone's blog mentioned HAB... took all of 50 words before eroomde's name was mentioned
[23:36] <Vaizki> and don't do pwm for the ntx2b output pin, just splurge on 3 resistors
[23:36] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: that might push my budget ;)
[23:36] <jonsowman> bit banding (i realise that was a typo) is a different thing ;)
[23:37] <AndyEsser> I'm having a bit of a typing fail day :(
[23:37] <Vaizki> bitband is arm-talk for memoery mapping registers so that each bit is a byte :)
[23:37] <jonsowman> and it's amazing
[23:37] <Vaizki> memoeryoooey
[23:37] <fsphil> never heard of that
[23:37] <jonsowman> but somewhat irrelevant
[23:37] <AndyEsser> So erm.. now I've done Hello Blinky... I guess erm... should look at doing something proper...
[23:37] <jonsowman> fsphil: it's so handy
[23:37] <AndyEsser> haha
[23:37] <Vaizki> fsphil: basically atomic writes to single bits
[23:37] <Vaizki> without reading values out first
[23:38] <jonsowman> whole memory addresses are mapped to a single bit in a byte somewhere else
[23:38] <fsphil> ah. yeah I noticed that about the arm chips. you can't do much to values in memory
[23:38] <Vaizki> yea arm is risc and kiss .. so bitbanding is a nice touch in some mcus
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[23:40] <fsphil> that is weird. wouldn't it have been easier to have instructions to do logic operations on memory
[23:41] <jonsowman> it's just a shortcut to make some things easier to code
[23:42] <Vaizki> well no, not exactly
[23:42] <Vaizki> it also guarantees nothing will change the value between you reading, or/and:ing and writing it
[23:44] <jonsowman> true
[23:46] <adamgreig> doesn't it have hardware OR to and from memory anyway though?
[23:46] <adamgreig> (not actually sure)
[23:46] <adamgreig> (but feel like it might have a single cycle OR to memory)
[23:46] <AndyEsser> hmm... make coffee and program ALL TEH THINGS... or go to bed
[23:47] <Vaizki> you should go to bed
[23:47] <adamgreig> friday night
[23:47] <adamgreig> program everything
[23:47] <AndyEsser> heh
[23:47] <Vaizki> but you know what you MUST do
[23:47] <daveake> pretend you're launching tomorrow
[23:47] <daveake> program all the things
[23:47] <AndyEsser> I'm guessing I can't plug the UART on this straight into a USB-to-Serial device and read/write data from my PC
[23:48] <AndyEsser> daveake: I've done more than enough of night before crunching
[23:48] <Vaizki> of course you can and should
[23:48] <Vaizki> well ok you want a TTL serial
[23:48] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: aren't the levels different?
[23:48] <Vaizki> not a RS232 serial
[23:48] <Vaizki> bingo
[23:48] <daveake> You can get USB-TTL serial things very cheaply
[23:48] <AndyEsser> Might pop over to Maplin tomorrow and see if they have a MAX232 or something
[23:48] <Vaizki> no you don't want a max232
[23:49] <fsphil> I've a couple of ttl-level serial > usb cables. very handy
[23:49] <Vaizki> oh ok you mean for the board-end?
[23:49] <AndyEsser> fsphil: you're not near enough for me to drop by ;)
[23:49] <Vaizki> better to just get a usb-serial ttl adapter
[23:49] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: yea, MAX232 on the board, and then standard adapter plugged into that
[23:49] <daveake> I used one of those this week fsphil for talking to a Pi Zero
[23:49] <adamgreig> yea definitely get a usb-serial ttl adapter
[23:49] <adamgreig> skip the max232 it's a huge pain
[23:49] <fsphil> something like https://www.adafruit.com/product/954
[23:49] <AndyEsser> fair enough
[23:50] <fsphil> that's 3.3v logic
[23:50] <fsphil> using the serial login prompt daveake?
[23:50] <daveake> Yup
[23:50] <AndyEsser> http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/usb-to-serial-ttl-cable-n74de
[23:51] <daveake> Normally that's the first thing I disable :)
[23:51] <AndyEsser> *sigh* Web Only
[23:51] <fsphil> hah, same
[23:51] <daveake> ofc I then typed in sudo apt-get update ...
[23:51] <AndyEsser> heh
[23:51] <daveake> ... forgetting no internet
[23:52] <daveake> (had wecam soldered to the usb)
[23:52] <daveake> webcam
[23:52] <fsphil> zero network
[23:52] <daveake> I've got a few USB LAN adapters and OTG adapters now
[23:52] <daveake> Less stress than WLAN
[23:53] <fsphil> should actually work on that IP over rfm bridge
[23:53] <daveake> :)
[23:54] <AndyEsser> local maplin has 1 max232 in stock - failing the ability to get anything sooner... I might just do that
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[00:00] --- Sat Dec 12 2015