highaltitude.log.20151209

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[00:02] <Vaizki> DT isn't so bad when you are setting out on a purpose built device project and you actually design it before you boot linux..
[00:02] <Laurenceb> haha true
[00:03] <Vaizki> but for a generic use play around and try stuff out type of mucking about it's a bit painful yes
[00:03] <Laurenceb> I was trying it on beaglebone
[00:03] <Laurenceb> " purpose built device" " actually design it"
[00:04] <Vaizki> not sure about the state of BBB linux distros today but they really should have a default DT with all the pins used for peripherals so you get I2C, SPI, PWM, GPIO etc out of the box
[00:05] <Vaizki> then if you need to change the pinmux, ok you have to start mucking about with DT
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[00:05] <Laurenceb> lol no
[00:05] <Laurenceb> GPIO and PWM work.. some of the time
[00:05] <Vaizki> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/367935/ouman-pi-tuning.png
[00:06] <Laurenceb> BBB: making rpi look well designed
[00:06] <Vaizki> ack wrong paste / channeö
[00:07] <Vaizki> both have their issues, I like a lot of stuff on the BBB but there's some weird stuff also
[00:08] <Laurenceb> like no functional PMIC
[00:08] <Laurenceb> and a bunch of vregs that start drawing 50mA when the thing says its turned off
[00:09] <Vaizki> yea that pmic/sleep/lipo-use etc power side is a mess
[00:09] <Laurenceb> my BBB looks like enamled wire spaghetti now its finally all fixed
[00:10] <Laurenceb> it is possible to make everything work correctly, but a ton of PMIC traces need cutting and rerouting
[00:10] <Vaizki> but it had a decent ethernet on it, fast emmc and loads of I/O pins
[00:10] <Laurenceb> yes, its so stupid
[00:10] <Laurenceb> what could have been a really pro board wrecked by n00b mistakes
[00:11] <Vaizki> what I don't get is why they didn't fix it
[00:11] <Laurenceb> yeah
[00:11] <Vaizki> I mean they made several revisions.. and it's "open source" so someone could have fixed it for them..
[00:12] <Laurenceb> one thing I didnt fix the the RTC
[00:12] <Laurenceb> wasnt going to compile a new kernel
[00:12] <Vaizki> well that's the easy part of things..
[00:12] <Laurenceb> I stuck it a boot script to configure the PMIC correctly over i2c
[00:12] <Vaizki> takes a while but.. :)
[00:12] <Laurenceb> well I'd also have needed a driver for it...
[00:12] <Vaizki> yea me too
[00:12] <Laurenceb> ah cool
[00:13] <Laurenceb> I was going to write some documentation on how to fix BBB, sounds like you got there by yourself :D
[00:13] <Vaizki> naah I didn't fix the PMIC wiring, just the registers over i2c
[00:14] <Vaizki> but I have to sleep.. badly..
[00:14] <Laurenceb> ok I should write it up then... if I can remeber what i did
[00:14] <Laurenceb> cya
[00:14] <Vaizki> still can't decide on a freq counter though :(
[00:14] <Vaizki> maybe it will come to me in a dream
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[04:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03yl3gbc_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=yl3gbc_chase
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[05:58] <DoYouKnow> has anyone here used something like this for aerial photography with a kite: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-HD-Smallest-Camera-Camcorder-Video-Recorder-DV-Spy-Hidden-Pinhole-Web-Cam-/111691705777
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[08:03] <fsphil> morning all
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[08:51] <fl_0> ok, got my PitS alive again
[08:51] <fl_0> GPS RX is good due to no rain outside :)
[08:58] <AndyEsser> morning
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[09:20] <fl_0> what prevents dl-fldigi from showing distance and bearing for my payload?
[09:20] <fl_0> it worked yesterday when I had it running under "CHANGEME"
[09:20] <fl_0> now I set a callsign but this cannot be the reason for not working, does it?
[09:20] <fsphil> it needs a valid payload document
[09:21] <fsphil> setup a document, describe each field. it should appear in the "testing" list in dl-fldigi
[09:21] <fl_0> it does
[09:21] <fl_0> and I selected it
[09:21] <fsphil> select it and hit autoconfigure
[09:21] <fsphil> that *should* get the lat/lng parsing working
[09:21] <fl_0> do each of the fileds have to be present?
[09:22] <fsphil> yeah it has to match
[09:22] <fl_0> i just disabled the pressure sensor ...
[09:22] <fl_0> ok
[09:22] <fl_0> then it was valid for "CHANGEME" by chance then ....
[09:22] <fl_0> :D
[09:24] <fl_0> can old paylopad docs be deleted by myself?
[09:25] <daveake> no
[09:25] <fl_0> :)
[09:25] <fl_0> hi daveake
[09:25] <fsphil> information can't be destroyed
[09:25] <AndyEsser> only transferred from one form to another
[09:26] <daveake> Well, you could try calling your payload $$RM-RF_*
[09:26] <daveake> $$DROP_TABLE_PAYLOADS
[09:26] <fl_0> :)
[09:26] <AndyEsser> :)
[09:26] <AndyEsser> Aww, little bobby tables
[09:26] <daveake> :)
[09:26] <craag> though of course that old fashioned sql nonsense won't work on habitat ;)
[09:27] <AndyEsser> It's couchdb?
[09:27] <craag> aye
[09:27] <AndyEsser> fine
[09:27] <daveake> now you're being sensible and accurate
[09:27] <AndyEsser> HTTP 1.1
[09:27] <AndyEsser> DELETE /
[09:27] <AndyEsser> :P
[09:27] <craag> noooooo
[09:27] <craag> all those typoed payload docs..
[09:27] <craag> how could you??!??!
[09:27] <AndyEsser> A presume you have a valid backup.... yes?
[09:27] <AndyEsser> :P
[09:28] <craag> backups are for the weak
[09:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL0CRE-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL0CRE-11
[09:28] <AndyEsser> you mean, "backups are for the week"
[09:28] <AndyEsser> ie weekly?
[09:28] <AndyEsser> :P
[09:28] <fl_0> ahhhwww
[09:28] <fl_0> found it
[09:28] <fl_0> :)
[09:28] <craag> no, the week when it was being written.
[09:28] <craag> haven't run them since :P
[09:29] <AndyEsser> o good lord
[09:29] Action: AndyEsser runs over with floppy disks
[09:29] Action: craag surrounds the server box with magnets
[09:30] <daveake> I remember one customer who dutifully made backups on floppies
[09:30] <daveake> However he'd bought hard-sectored ones
[09:30] <daveake> i.e. hole every sector not once per revolution
[09:30] <craag> (fyi im nothing to do with writing or running habitat)
[09:30] <daveake> So yes he had a backup, but the sectors were scattered around
[09:31] <fsphil> hole?
[09:31] <daveake> hole so it could sync with the start of the track
[09:31] <fsphil> don't think I've ever seen that
[09:32] <daveake> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_sectoring
[09:32] <daveake> Was rare
[09:32] <gonzo_> usual thing is to do backups and never test them. (been there)
[09:33] <fsphil> I've a box of 5.14 discs, must take a look
[09:33] <chris_99> interesting, never heard of that before
[09:33] <gonzo_> these days the only usable backup media for a HD is another HD
[09:34] <craag> are tapes out of fashion now?
[09:34] <AndyEsser> craag: depends
[09:34] <gonzo_> still seem to use them at work
[09:34] <AndyEsser> You still can't really beat tapes for Storage/Cost
[09:34] <gonzo_> there is a safe full of them
[09:34] <chris_99> i got this fluid with iron powder in to try to image a floppy disk, but it wasn't fine enough alas - https://www.anfractuosity.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/2015-08-05-195008.jpg
[09:34] <AndyEsser> even with the plummeting cost of HDDs
[09:34] <fsphil> tapes are annoying when they get tangled up in the machine. doesn't happen too often thankfully
[09:34] <AndyEsser> fsphil: thankfully never had that happen :)
[09:35] <AndyEsser> the annoying bit with tapes is the read speed
[09:35] <AndyEsser> but thankfully, restoring from backup is a rare task
[09:35] <AndyEsser> unless you have muppet users, or frequent natural disasters
[09:35] <AndyEsser> :)
[09:35] <daveake> For important stuff (source code etc) I have dropbox on several machines, and git for versioning
[09:35] <AndyEsser> daveake: o god
[09:35] <gonzo_> you used to be able to get an little ampule with a ferro liquid, you could use it to look at mag stripes on cards
[09:35] <AndyEsser> *shudders* at dropbox
[09:35] <daveake> Bulk stuff (mp3s, videos) they're on a raid nas with USB HD backup
[09:35] <fsphil> just had it happen once AndyEsser. took a few hours to clear it out
[09:36] <fsphil> we've moved to external SATA discs now
[09:36] <AndyEsser> sounds fun for you :)
[09:36] <chris_99> gonzo_, https://www.anfractuosity.com/projects/optical-magnetic-stripe-reading/ i wrote a little proggy to decode cards via that
[09:36] <gonzo_> I have nightly rsync between lots of machines
[09:36] Action: craag -> nas -> s3 glacier
[09:36] <AndyEsser> my mission critical stuff (source code, server configs, etc) is all in git, which is on Amazon, and the disks are backed up to S3 and Glacier
[09:36] <AndyEsser> and then my DB's are backed up nightly to S3 and glacier as well
[09:36] <daveake> Also automated source backups each night to another raid nas + usb hds
[09:37] <gonzo_> for mp3's etc, the rsync runs to a friends house. A few of us have a common library of music. It saves all that 'have you heard/did I give you a copy of....'
[09:37] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:37] <AndyEsser> nice
[09:37] <daveake> and AJC to backup on-the-fly
[09:38] Action: AndyEsser ponders having payload backup all data direct to Amazon on launches....
[09:39] <fsphil> put wifi on it. if it gets stuck in a tree, just rsync and leave it there
[09:39] <daveake> I had one ftp-ing photos after landing
[09:39] <AndyEsser> haha
[09:40] <AndyEsser> fsphil: I'm so going to lose my first payload
[09:40] <daveake> except it rebooted on landing and thought it hadn't launched yet ...
[09:40] <AndyEsser> and will just end roaming EA looking for this box
[09:40] <AndyEsser> daveake: ooo
[09:40] <AndyEsser> lose connection?
[09:40] <AndyEsser> or something it a reset switch?
[09:40] <AndyEsser> loose*
[09:40] <AndyEsser> hit*
[09:40] <daveake> battery holder and not enough gaffer tape
[09:40] <AndyEsser> my god.... bad typing today
[09:40] <AndyEsser> haha
[09:41] <fsphil> landing tests all your connections
[09:41] <daveake> But it did reconnect to 3G and stream the video of its own recovery
[09:41] <fsphil> it's one of the few good things about trees. they soften the landing
[09:41] <AndyEsser> fsphil: I planned on doing the highly scientific method of throwing my payload out of my upstairs windows...
[09:41] <daveake> :)
[09:41] <fsphil> excellent
[09:41] <AndyEsser> I think it was daveake's blog that mentioned that if it can't handle falling down stairs, it can't handle the landing
[09:42] <AndyEsser> so started coming up with test ideas :P
[09:42] <craag> aka. the ed moore test
[09:42] <daveake> That's the Ed Test
[09:42] <AndyEsser> haha
[09:42] <daveake> Often executed mentally rather than physically
[09:42] <fsphil> you don't have to actually do it :)
[09:42] <AndyEsser> ah "Do I think this will work ok if I were to throw it down the stairs"?
[09:42] <fsphil> my second payload failed the ed test. the antenna was too pansy
[09:43] <AndyEsser> speaking of which
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[09:43] <fsphil> and then failed to be tracked after launch
[09:43] <daveake> ouch
[09:43] <AndyEsser> I presume people don't use proper commercial grade antenna on their payloads, but more likely just cable?
[09:43] <daveake> Hand-made 1/4-wave performs better than anything you might buy
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[09:44] <gonzo_> one of my projects got thrown off the fire escape onto the factory floor, by the boss, to test it's drop resistance. Then had to tell him it was the only prototype
[09:44] <craag> and is a heck of a lot lighter / less lethal
[09:44] <AndyEsser> craag: yea...
[09:44] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: I was talking to my MD yesterday about this HAB stuff, he seemed fascinated by it
[09:44] <AndyEsser> I'm hoping he'll let me borrow his Land Rover for recovery ;)
[09:44] <fsphil> spikes falling at speed from 30km is bad
[09:45] <craag> "ernie ball custom guage 13" is fantastic antenna element material
[09:45] <craag> tin-plated steel guitar wire
[09:45] <gonzo_> I use bits of cat5 for my hab ants. Just rememner to straighten them out before release
[09:45] <daveake> I have quite a few commercial ones here, all tested, and all outperformed by a 1/4 wave
[09:45] <AndyEsser> that's just crazy
[09:45] <daveake> Open up a commercial one and see what you find
[09:45] <fsphil> wouldn't recommend cat5 gonzo_. it's quite fragile
[09:46] <AndyEsser> Really need to get started on actually building things and testing :(
[09:47] <gonzo_> the pure copper stuff is ok
[09:47] <fsphil> they kept breaking on me
[09:47] <fsphil> might've just been poor cable I had
[09:47] <gonzo_> the ali clad stuff is poor
[09:48] <AndyEsser> use Cat5
[09:48] <AndyEsser> but not as an atenna
[09:48] <AndyEsser> as an actual link :P
[09:48] <AndyEsser> reallllllly long coil of it beside you as you launch :P
[09:48] <daveake> I've seen that seriously suggested
[09:48] <AndyEsser> (we'll ignore the 100m max range of cat5 for the sake of argument)
[09:48] <daveake> By idiots
[09:48] <fsphil> gigabit download speeds. from 30m altitude
[09:48] <gonzo_> think you would reach max alt quite quick withj a box of cat5
[09:48] <gonzo_> hehe yep, max-30mtrs
[09:48] <daveake> Not at all
[09:48] <AndyEsser> hehe
[09:49] <daveake> Judjing by recent events
[09:49] <daveake> Extra weight = mega altitude
[09:49] <gonzo_> at least it would be notem exempt
[09:49] <AndyEsser> ha
[09:50] <fsphil> think the best bet for really high data rate is 2.4ghz and a huge antenna on the ground with auto tracking
[09:50] <gonzo_> but cat5 strands would be fine as a gorundplane. Nice and light. And would probably be taped to the payload so not flexing
[09:50] <fsphil> yeah they'd have to be secured
[09:50] <gonzo_> and a bit of 16/0.2 for the element if you prefer
[09:52] <gonzo_> but mine have all been just free space gp elemens soldered to the ntx2 case and the radiating soldered to the ntx2 pcb. All cat5 solid copper. Then wrapped in bubble wrap with the elenmts poking out
[09:52] <gonzo_> performed fine and even whenb flexed about a bit have showed no sign opf prob
[09:54] <gonzo_> these are all pico flights where there is no possability of the payload bouncing along the groung at release
[09:54] <fl_0> is there a way to see a little more of the telemtry?
[09:54] <gonzo_> (ok, that's prob on daves list)
[09:54] <fl_0> i have too much sensors :)
[09:54] <daveake> see more where?
[09:54] <fl_0> i have the tracker opened
[09:55] <daveake> yes you can edit the source code
[09:55] <fl_0> with the telemetry grpah at the bottom
[09:55] <daveake> it trims the lines to stop line-wrap
[09:55] <daveake> graph ??
[09:55] <fl_0> sorry, I meant the tracker website
[09:55] <fl_0> tracker.habhub.org
[09:55] <fl_0> :)
[09:55] <fl_0> with the telemetry graph at the bottom
[09:55] <fl_0> http://tracker.habhub.org/#!mt=roadmap&mz=9&qm=1_day&mc=51.56897,8.2566&f=DL0CRE-11
[09:56] <daveake> so what "more" do you want to see ?
[09:56] <fl_0> the current values for the external temperature is not shown in the list
[09:57] <daveake> it is
[09:57] <daveake> You have 3 temperatures
[09:57] <fl_0> jepp
[09:57] <AndyEsser> fl_0: I can see Temperature, Temp External and Temp Internal
[09:57] <daveake> PITS internal, DS18B20 external, BMP180 external
[09:58] <daveake> So you have all 3
[09:58] <fl_0> just a second
[09:58] <fl_0> will make a lilte pic
[10:00] <fl_0> http://picpaste.de/5967f3fb92964540ce03a29e39dc904d.png
[10:00] <fl_0> see here
[10:00] <fl_0> the list is somewhat trunkated
[10:00] <fl_0> and i thought there may be a separate page where we could see more details
[10:02] <daveake> I don't understand
[10:03] <daveake> All your live data is on that habhub page
[10:03] <fl_0> hmm
[10:03] <fl_0> I miss the graph for "external temp"
[10:04] <daveake> no idea
[10:05] <daveake> ping lz1dev
[10:05] <daveake> ask him ^ :)
[10:06] <fl_0> kk
[10:06] <fl_0> will wait for him :)
[10:06] <fl_0> until then APRS wants to be debugged ...
[10:06] <fl_0> again thanks for the support guys
[10:06] <fl_0> it is much appreciated
[10:07] <daveake> Anyone have the link to x-f's live/graphing page ?
[10:07] <Geoff-G8-> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/DL0CRE-11
[10:07] <daveake> Cheers :)
[10:07] Nick change: Geoff-G8- -> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap
[10:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> The data is there
[10:08] <fl_0> woohaa
[10:08] <fl_0> that looks excellent
[10:08] <fl_0> thank you
[10:08] <fl_0> that is what i was looking for =)
[10:08] <AndyEsser> Very cool :)
[10:09] <AndyEsser> So as long as I pump all my telemetry to dl-fldigi - I can use all sorts of funky tools people have made/
[10:09] <AndyEsser> ?*
[10:09] <daveake> Yeah there's lots of stuff
[10:09] <AndyEsser> That's so cool
[10:09] <AndyEsser> :)
[10:09] <daveake> You can also export from habitat into (spit) Excel or whatever
[10:09] <AndyEsser> The massive nerd and trekkie in me is loving all this stuff
[10:09] <AndyEsser> haha
[10:10] <AndyEsser> Can't wait to get properly stuck in - crosses so many disciplines that I have interest/knowledge in
[10:10] <AndyEsser> roll on xmas break from work :)
[10:10] <daveake> Yeah that's what got me hooked ...
[10:10] <daveake> ... coding, electronics, radio, photography, sniffing glue ...
[10:10] <daveake> er ...
[10:10] <AndyEsser> haha
[10:11] <AndyEsser> so, when I recently got back into electronics, I've been doing it all at my dining room table
[10:11] <AndyEsser> bought myself a soldering iron on the weekend
[10:11] <daveake> Actually the craft side - making nice payloads - is also fun
[10:11] <AndyEsser> to do some of the fiddly bits
[10:11] <AndyEsser> looked up... smoke detector directly above table
[10:11] <AndyEsser> whoops :P
[10:16] <fl_0> Building APRS packet
[10:16] <fl_0> 2015-12-09 10:16:00 sigHandler: Unhandled signal 8, terminating
[10:16] <fl_0> Sending APRS Packet
[10:16] Last message repeated 7 time(s).
[10:16] <fl_0> Playing WAVE 'aprs.wav' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian, Playing WAVE 'aprs.wav' : Playing WAVE 'aprs.wav' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian, Signed 16 bit Little Endian, Rate 48000 Hz, MonoRate 48000 Hz, MonoRate 48000 Hz, Mono
[10:16] <fl_0> :(((
[10:16] <russss> ...
[10:17] <fl_0> maybe that has to do with the new GPIO stuff
[10:20] <AndyEsser> http://www.gmunk.com/OBLIVION-GFX
[10:20] <AndyEsser> guessing this would be far too overkill/geeky to design my computer to look like something cool like that?
[10:23] <fsphil> wouldn't hurt :)
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[10:31] <AndyEsser> design my computer?! err... software
[10:31] <AndyEsser> seriously... not having a good morning atm
[10:31] <fsphil> we don't even see the typos anymore
[10:32] <AndyEsser> just blonde, redhead, brunette?
[10:32] <chris_99> hehe
[10:33] <AndyEsser> So this morning we've had a Little Bobby Tables and a Matrix reference
[10:33] <AndyEsser> I have found my people :)
[10:33] <daveake> People come for the HAB but stay for the nerdism
[10:34] <AndyEsser> So quote tastic :)
[10:34] <AndyEsser> Another channel I'm in, one of the bots has a quote system built in
[10:34] <AndyEsser> I'd have used it about 3 times this morning already :)
[10:34] <chris_99> https://twitter.com/thesamja/status/674262352796196864/photo/1 -- this is ridiculous
[10:34] <daveake> No need for that here
[10:34] <daveake> We just have a bot for educating Americans
[10:34] <AndyEsser> *facepalm*
[10:35] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[10:35] <AndyEsser> chris_99: our government worries me so much
[10:35] <chris_99> mmm heh
[10:35] <AndyEsser> that, along with the whole "Lets outlaw encryption"
[10:35] <fl_0> aprs.wav: No such file or directory
[10:35] <AndyEsser> like seriously... who is advising them
[10:35] <chris_99> goodness knows
[10:35] <fl_0> where shopuld that be generated?
[10:35] <fl_0> in the tracker folder, right?
[10:35] <daveake> yes tracker folder
[10:35] <fl_0> hm k
[10:35] <daveake> tracker program makes it
[10:36] <daveake> send_aprs uses/deletes it
[10:36] <daveake> the end. Checked it just now.
[10:36] <daveake> What APRS callsign have you put in?
[10:36] <fl_0> same as the payload
[10:36] <fl_0> DL0CRE
[10:36] <daveake> wrong
[10:36] <fl_0> and 11 as SSID
[10:36] <daveake> oh not the same then
[10:37] <fl_0> ?
[10:37] <fl_0> DL0CRE-11 is tha payload callsign
[10:37] <daveake> Sometimes people add the -11 to the callsign
[10:37] <fl_0> ah k
[10:37] <fl_0> nope
[10:37] <daveake> which is wrong as that's what the ID line is for
[10:37] <fl_0> APRS_Callsign=DL0CRE
[10:37] <fl_0> APRS_ID=11
[10:37] <fl_0> APRS_Period=1
[10:37] <daveake> fine
[10:37] <fl_0> so that is correct then
[10:42] <fl_0> send_aprs: line 16: echo: write error: Resource temporarily unavailable
[10:42] <fl_0> ah
[10:42] <daveake> SD card
[10:42] <daveake> ?
[10:44] <fl_0> Free SD space = 12281.6MB
[10:44] <AndyEsser> not sure that's enough :)
[10:44] <fl_0> hrhr
[10:44] <fl_0> i guess it is
[10:44] <fl_0> seems like the aprs.wav is not generated
[10:44] <fl_0> i commented out the "rm -rf"
[10:44] <daveake> That line #16 is this:
[10:44] <daveake> echo Sending APRS Packet
[10:44] <fl_0> but still no file in that dir
[10:45] <daveake> Not entiirely sure how that can fail :/
[10:45] <fl_0> mee to
[10:45] <fl_0> me too
[10:45] <fl_0> because its -e aprs.wav before
[10:45] <fl_0> that wouldn't be executed if no file was there ....
[10:45] <daveake> yup
[10:46] <daveake> Any chance you've got 2 copies of that script running?
[10:46] <fl_0> of "tracker"?
[10:47] <daveake> No, send_aprs. tracker is an executable not a script.
[10:47] <fl_0> aaahhh
[10:47] <fl_0> yes
[10:47] <daveake> yes you have?
[10:47] <fl_0> seems like some zombies
[10:47] <fl_0> i have
[10:47] <fl_0> yes
[10:47] <fl_0> will kill them
[10:47] <daveake> well there you go
[10:47] <fl_0> :)
[10:48] <daveake> dunno how you managed it, but hey
[10:48] <daveake> tbh I'd scratch the SD and start again if I were you
[10:49] <daveake> It's quicker than trying to fix whatever's happened since you did it first time
[10:49] <daveake> New SD takes half an hour and I know that you (and I) have spent more time than that on it last night and this morning
[10:50] <AndyEsser> What do people recommend as the MCU/CPU to use for onboard flight recorders?
[10:50] <fl_0> jepp
[10:50] <fl_0> daveake: will definitely do that before lauch
[10:50] <fl_0> *launch
[10:50] <fl_0> but learned a lot
[10:50] <daveake> Whatever a) does the job (anything) and b) you know about
[10:50] <fl_0> at least myself
[10:50] <fl_0> :D
[10:51] <daveake> If you don't want to download live images then almost any AVR or little PIC will do it
[10:51] <AndyEsser> Yea, had looked at a PIC32, but designing the PCB for it was a ballache
[10:51] <AndyEsser> did look at maybe an ARM SOC
[10:51] <AndyEsser> but it's the same form factor, so a pain to design the PCB for
[10:51] <daveake> Even a lowly AVR probably spends 90%+ of its time idling
[10:52] <AndyEsser> http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/avr/
[10:52] <AndyEsser> these?
[10:52] <daveake> Me, I jsut buy an Arduino, get it to work, then get Upu to make it into a board :)
[10:53] <Vaizki> 328p is the most used (unsurprisingly)
[10:54] <AndyEsser> http://www.atmel.com/devices/atmega328p.aspx
[10:54] <AndyEsser> one of those?
[10:56] <pb0ahx> !flights
[10:56] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: There are no flights currently :(
[10:57] <daveake> yes one of those
[10:58] <fsphil> avr's are handy. they are so simple
[10:59] <fsphil> that apostrophe doesn't look right
[11:00] <daveake> 'cos it's not :)
[11:00] <Vaizki> AndyEsser, for avr you will find a load of ready libraries and example code including ready made tracker examples etc.. but if I was to do an ambitious clean design from scratch now it'd be a Cortex-M0 probably
[11:01] <Vaizki> you can even get them in DIP packages if you are surface-mount challenged like me :)
[11:01] <daveake> Those Pis about to get docked with the ISS http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv
[11:02] <Darkside_> oh what
[11:02] <nick_> If you want low power go for M0+
[11:02] <Darkside_> for use on the ISs?
[11:02] <daveake> for small values of "use", yes
[11:02] <AndyEsser> heh
[11:02] <Darkside_> hah ok
[11:02] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: ready made is bad for me :P
[11:02] <daveake> education/school stuff
[11:04] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: thanks for the headsup about the DIP packages! Big headache solved
[11:04] <fsphil> stm32l0 would be a fun payload cpu
[11:04] <fsphil> very low power
[11:05] <nick_> I've got a coin cell STM32L0 board on my to do list.
[11:05] <fsphil> I've a little board to build for monitoring a solar power thing, seems ideal
[11:05] <nick_> I don't know that it could handle GPS though.
[11:06] <fsphil> gps is just a small string every few seconds. easy peasy
[11:06] <fsphil> a 6502 could do it :)
[11:06] <daveake> Well volunteered :)
[11:06] <AndyEsser> fsphil: is that what most GPS chips output? just a serial string of coords or something?
[11:06] <AndyEsser> Haven't got that far into looking at the datasheets
[11:06] <daveake> By default yes
[11:06] <daveake> NMEA
[11:06] <AndyEsser> sahweet
[11:06] <AndyEsser> Yep, saw the mention of NMEA, again, haven't had a chance to dig into it all yet
[11:06] <fsphil> they also offer brand-specific protocols
[11:06] <AndyEsser> there is a limit to info consumption
[11:06] <AndyEsser> sadly
[11:06] <fsphil> ublox's UBX is quite simple too
[11:07] <daveake> yeah main problem is switching of the NMEA so it doesn't get in the way of the UBX :)
[11:07] <daveake> off
[11:08] <fsphil> the stm chips also have multiple uarts, so rtty could be done entirely in hardware
[11:08] <Vaizki> I think ubx is simpler than NMEA...
[11:08] <fsphil> really the cpu would be asleep 99% of the time
[11:08] <Vaizki> and UBX runs nicely over i2c in polled mode so you will only get data when you need/ask
[11:09] <Vaizki> i.e. just before starting RTTY sentence sending
[11:09] <daveake> yeah I tend to poll every second anyway, so it can be logged, but yes you can just poll shortly before the RTTY sentence is built
[11:10] <AndyEsser> RTTY is the default data-over-radio protocol that people use, correct?
[11:10] <daveake> yes
[11:10] <fsphil> it is the simplest
[11:10] <Vaizki> well that's the default that everyone is ready to receive :)
[11:10] <nick_> fsphil: I mean if the coin cell could provide enough power for the GPS over a flight.
[11:10] <gonzo_> that is 7/8 but ascii rtty. Not to be confused with 5bit batdot
[11:10] <gonzo_> baudot
[11:10] <fsphil> nick_: ah, yes. I misunderstood
[11:11] <daveake> ditto
[11:12] <gonzo_> (I was going to do a baudot flight, just for fun, but I think there was one chr short for the packet framing)
[11:12] <fsphil> it has no *
[11:12] <fsphil> though dl-fldigi is hacked to use something else
[11:12] <fsphil> can't remember what that was now. should be in the source
[11:12] <gonzo_> we did look at the time
[11:12] <Vaizki> noooo don't go into the souuuuurce
[11:13] <daveake> you're ina maze of twisty passages, all alike
[11:13] <AndyEsser> anyone know the difference between the AVR 328 PN and PU?
[11:13] <fsphil> it is inevitabile
[11:13] <gonzo_> a hamming distance of 6?
[11:13] <gonzo_> you are in a room, there are exits N S E. Command:
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[11:15] <fsphil> gonzo_: for baudot you can use # in place of *
[11:16] <gonzo_> sure we tried that?? was the problem downstream at habhub?
[11:16] <fsphil> AndyEsser: temperature range
[11:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> AndyEsser: http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=98956.0
[11:16] <AndyEsser> fsphil: that's basically all I noticed
[11:16] <AndyEsser> thanks
[11:17] <AndyEsser> SA6BSS-Mike: thanks
[11:30] <AndyEsser> at least with a DIP package I can order the IC and use breadboard in the meantime :)
[11:34] <daveake> gah he said breadboard :p
[11:34] <AndyEsser> sorry
[11:34] <AndyEsser> :P
[11:34] <AndyEsser> Ed would confirm that I hated breadboard at school :P
[11:34] <daveake> s'ok, I hate them :)
[11:34] <AndyEsser> I used custom PCB's for EVERYTHING
[11:34] <AndyEsser> must've spent a fortune
[11:34] <AndyEsser> but now the cost lands on me... I'm a bit more careful ;)
[11:35] <daveake> They just add capacitance and inductance, with random disconnects, to what would otherwise be a lovely working circuit :)
[11:35] <daveake> and crosstalk
[11:35] <AndyEsser> Yea, it was the capacitance and inductance that caused me a problem with my GCSE project
[11:35] <AndyEsser> for some reason decided to make a 4-channel video switch...
[11:35] <AndyEsser> ha
[11:36] <daveake> :)
[11:36] <AndyEsser> was thinking about my GCSE electronics the other day
[11:36] <AndyEsser> I remember starting to work on a program for the PIC to understand OpenGL
[11:37] <AndyEsser> I guess... I realised there was a need for OpenGL ES before it was released
[11:37] <AndyEsser> ha
[11:43] <AndyEsser> Do people typically use the altitude reportd from a GPS chip, or a standalone altimeter?
[11:44] <mattbrejza> what altimeter were you thinking of?
[11:45] <mattbrejza> (normally gps though)
[11:45] <AndyEsser> Well presumed you could get IC's that measure altitude (although I guess that might be based on atmospheric pressure - so more like a barometer)
[11:46] <AndyEsser> Again, sorry for _ALL_ the questions :P Just want to avoid any common pitfalls
[11:46] <daveake> sore point lately :/
[11:46] <chris_99> heh, did anyone hear any more about that Italian balloon
[11:46] <AndyEsser> daveake: o?
[11:46] <daveake> No reply on FB (but they did see my question)
[11:46] <daveake> All comments deleted on YT
[11:46] <AndyEsser> Is this the Italian balloon claiming a new record?
[11:46] <daveake> yep
[11:47] <chris_99> daveake, muchos suspect
[11:47] <daveake> They're still claiming 49,500
[11:47] <Vaizki> AndyEsser, pressure is so low up there that you need a high end barometer .. really high end
[11:47] <daveake> I'm assuming they just don't understand
[11:47] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: gotcha
[11:48] <daveake> Also, pressure changes with time even at the same altitude
[11:48] <Vaizki> yea you need a weather model..
[11:48] <AndyEsser> ok ok - I'll stick with GPS :P
[11:48] <daveake> yes :)
[11:48] <fsphil> even gps altitude is a bit inaccurate, but close enough
[11:48] <Vaizki> a gps in flight mode
[11:48] Action: AndyEsser adds a zero to altitude
[11:49] <daveake> yeah, but 10's of metres not 1000's :p
[11:49] <AndyEsser> can anyone recommend an AVR programmer? Or do people tend to do it in-circuit?
[11:50] <daveake> This one https://www.kanda.com/products/Kanda/AVRISP-MKII.html?google=gb&gclid=Cj0KEQiAv5-zBRCAzfWGu-2jo70BEiQAj_F8oJcdFv5K38ws7B7gKISZcdXqRwmg8LTcpVhhnA6TYQYaAhEs8P8HAQ
[11:50] <fsphil> in-circuit is the way to go
[11:50] <daveake> absolutely
[11:50] <AndyEsser> fsphil: in-circuit would be my preferred
[11:51] <AndyEsser> so, it's been a LONG time since I did any programming for microcontrollers, when I was using PIC16's and stuff, in-circuit ended in a serial port, which then went into our PC's
[11:51] <fsphil> I have one of these too, has worked well: https://www.olimex.com/Products/AVR/Programmers/AVR-ISP500/
[11:51] <AndyEsser> is it still basically the same?
[11:51] <AndyEsser> but with a USB->Serial adapter for the PC?
[11:51] Action: AndyEsser loads above page
[11:51] <fsphil> nah they're all USB these days
[11:52] <fl_0> daveake: I found the issue
[11:52] <fl_0> its here:
[11:52] <fl_0> RandomOffset = rand() % Config.APRS_Random;
[11:52] <fsphil> avrdude is the usual bit of software to flash them, it'll work with both those programmers
[11:52] <fl_0> the problem is/was that APRS_Random is undefined (by default)
[11:52] <fl_0> so that operation fails
[11:53] <fl_0> if I set the parameter, all is fine
[11:53] <daveake> ah yes, I forgot that got fixed :/
[11:53] Action: fsphil still wishes there was an stm32dude
[11:53] Action: fsphil should make it
[11:53] Action: fsphil is to lazy
[11:53] <fl_0> It got fixed?
[11:54] <daveake> in next version
[11:54] <fsphil> +o
[11:54] <fl_0> At least not inthe git repo?
[11:54] <fl_0> ah k
[11:54] <fl_0> I just made a pull request ...
[11:54] <fl_0> :)
[11:54] <daveake> ok
[11:56] <AndyEsser> right, might be time to place another order in...
[11:57] <AndyEsser> This stuff is sending me all right back to my childhood (stupid giddy feeling included)
[11:58] <AndyEsser> :)
[11:58] <AndyEsser> thanks for all the help so far guys and gals
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[11:58] <fsphil> that'll go away after an all night session tracking down some obscure bug
[11:58] <AndyEsser> fsphil: Ha
[11:58] <AndyEsser> that's erm... actually what I love :)
[11:58] <fsphil> yeah me too
[11:59] <AndyEsser> You don't get that sort of sense of achievement when you write a python script to display a string to the screen
[11:59] <fsphil> debugging an entire program with a single LED
[11:59] <AndyEsser> but writing assembly, or c, or something, that controls physical hardware, that then drives motors etc :)
[11:59] <AndyEsser> fsphil: ha
[11:59] <AndyEsser> is that the MCU equivalent of a printf() debugging?
[11:59] <daveake> yup
[11:59] <fsphil> definitly
[12:00] <AndyEsser> time to learn morse code? :P
[12:00] <daveake> Even sending debug out of a serial port can mess up what your program is supposed to be doing
[12:00] <daveake> or make it work despite an actual bug
[12:01] <fsphil> heisenbug
[12:01] <daveake> Hiis cat must be dead by now
[12:01] <AndyEsser> fsphil: damnit, beat me to it
[12:03] <fl_0> so, last issue is, that the AFSK APRS signal has no volume
[12:04] <fl_0> Theres just the carrier
[12:04] <daveake> disable device tree, please
[12:04] <fl_0> daveake: is that also already fixed in the new version?
[12:04] <fl_0> :D
[12:04] <fl_0> DT is already disabled
[12:04] <fl_0> maybe a mixer issue ...
[12:05] <fl_0> hmm no
[12:05] <fl_0> output is set to 100%
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[12:13] <fl_0> audio just comes from the earphone plug on the pi
[12:14] <fl_0> maybe an issue because it set the HAB board onto a Rapsberry Pi 2?
[12:14] <fl_0> due to some different GPIO numbering?!
[12:18] <daveake> Pi 2 doesn't work with that trick, no
[12:18] <fl_0> jepp
[12:18] <fl_0> made
[12:18] <fl_0> it
[12:18] <fl_0> replugged it to an A+
[12:18] <fl_0> and obviously works
[12:19] <daveake> I've not tried it yet, but wiringpi also offers pwm re-mapping function and that probably does work on the Pi 2
[12:19] <daveake> work a try
[12:19] <fl_0> i can try it
[12:19] <daveake> It's something like gpio mode <n> PWM
[12:19] <daveake> Run that then aplay the file
[12:20] <daveake> btw you will still get audio from the jack anyway; only one channel (left/right I forget which) is remapped
[12:21] <fl_0> yeah okay
[12:23] <AndyEsser> the AVR AT328's don't require an external clock do they?
[12:25] <daveake> Internal one might drift far enough to mess up rtty and/or GPS serial connection
[12:27] <gonzo_> that's a long way to drift!
[12:28] <daveake> 5% for an RC clock?
[12:29] <gonzo_> Ah, ok. that is getting interesting
[12:29] <gonzo_> stilldavid, 10% should be the limit for 8bit uart, assuming it was spot on central at the start
[12:30] <gonzo_> how did the david get in there??? must have ctrlC'ed
[12:30] <daveake> lol
[12:33] <AndyEsser> ha
[12:34] <AndyEsser> daveake: thanks, at least I can boot it up and play around with it without an external oscillator and then plan to build one in later
[12:34] <daveake> Just add a xtal
[12:35] <daveake> tbh for playing around, just buy an arduno mini pri
[12:35] <daveake> pro
[12:39] <mfa298> I think in some modes on the avr it's serial timing is already off from what it should be, so rc drift in one direction might improve timing, drift in the other might push it over the limit (from memory 9600baud on 8MHz clock is iffy - that might also be with clkdiv8 set)
[12:40] <AndyEsser> might as well just throw an xtal and required components onto this order then :)
[12:40] <daveake> yes
[12:40] <mfa298> and lots of 100nf caps for decoupling
[12:41] <AndyEsser> daveake: any recommended xtals off your head? or will any (with correct timing) do?
[12:41] <AndyEsser> mfa298: Already have like 600 caps :)
[12:44] <mfa298> You may want to run off 3v3 rather than 5v for the avr in which case you can't run at the full 20MHz (at least according to the datasheet)
[12:44] <AndyEsser> That is unsurprising, was going to just play around with 5v for the time being to simplify things, then shift to 3.3v after I got that hang of the AVR and bits
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[12:48] <eroomde> i have cooked for 20!
[12:48] <AndyEsser> \o/
[12:48] <AndyEsser> so... 20 sets of food poisoning?
[12:50] <eroomde> enough wine to sterilise everyone
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[12:55] <gonzo_> same as cooking for one, but bigger pan
[12:55] <fl_0> daveake: GPIO PWM switch works with "gpio -g mode 18 pwm
[12:55] <fl_0> "
[12:55] <fl_0> u got another pull request
[12:55] <fl_0> :D
[12:55] <daveake> cool ta
[12:55] <fl_0> hope that is ok for you
[12:55] <fl_0> =)
[12:56] <daveake> I'll do an interim version
[12:56] <daveake> much is waiting on a test flight
[12:57] <fl_0> hmm
[12:57] <fl_0> seems like that was added to the first pull request automatically?!
[12:57] Action: fl_0 is not a github pro
[12:57] <fl_0> :)
[12:59] <fl_0> I tested with the RPi A+
[12:59] <fl_0> And the RPi 2 (B)
[13:24] <fsphil> the pi naming scheme has got a bit weird
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[13:26] <daveake> yup
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[13:29] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[13:29] <LazyLeopard> You mean it wasn't a bit weird from the start?
[13:29] <fsphil> started with A and B
[13:30] <fl_0> daveake: thank you for the merge :)
[13:30] <daveake> np
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[13:30] <daveake> thanks for the changes
[13:31] <fl_0> thanks for the support
[13:31] <fl_0> :DD
[13:31] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[13:34] <LazyLeopard> I seem to remember thinking they'd put A and B round the wrong way, but I forget why, now...
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[13:47] <AndyEsser> Has anyone (not just people in here) attempted to 'power' a balloon and guide it?
[13:48] <chris_99> Laurenceb_ had a guided payload i think
[13:49] <AndyEsser> having just spent nearly £40 to send my dad a package worth £20 in Crete, I'm wondering if I can just send a balloon instead ;)
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[13:50] <chris_99> haha
[13:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03yl3gbc_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=yl3gbc_chase
[13:51] <AndyEsser> habhub takes chase vehices as well?
[13:51] <AndyEsser> cool
[13:52] <chris_99> i think theres an app for your phone for that iirc?
[13:52] <AndyEsser> if not, there should be!
[13:53] <chris_99> this one https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pexat.habhub.chasecartracker&hl=en ?
[13:54] <AndyEsser> :)
[13:54] <AndyEsser> and without touching my phone (it's at least 2ft away!) it's downloading and installing :)
[13:54] <AndyEsser> technology is magic!
[13:54] <chris_99> heh nice, via adb?
[13:54] <fsphil> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.brejza.matt.habmodem&hl=en_GB
[13:54] <fsphil> this one has a built-in rtty modem ;)
[13:54] <AndyEsser> chris_99: nope - Android Store
[13:54] <AndyEsser> click Install, choose which android device, and voila
[13:54] <SA6BSS-Mike> loged in on same gmail on both devices
[13:55] <chris_99> wow fsphil, so you can plug a scanner into the phone?
[13:55] <AndyEsser> yea
[13:55] <SA6BSS-Mike> and run adsb from your android phone
[13:55] <SA6BSS-Mike> *if you have otg support that is
[13:56] <fsphil> yeah mattbrejza wrote a java rtty modem. works well if you can get the audio into the phone
[13:56] <fsphil> does uploading and all
[13:56] <fsphil> not sure if it does ssdv though
[13:57] <Vaizki> also just opening habhub tracker in the browser will offer to track you as a chase car
[13:57] <chris_99> hmm i'm just wondering what connect you'd need to connect a scanner, as aren't microphone inputs supposed to only take low voltage or something
[13:57] <daveake> no
[13:57] <daveake> works well through the mic
[13:57] <Vaizki> just no singing while chasing
[13:57] <AndyEsser> hahaha
[13:57] <chris_99> lol
[13:58] <fsphil> whistle at 50 notes per second
[13:58] <AndyEsser> o god
[13:58] <AndyEsser> "Choose Call Sign"
[13:58] <Vaizki> that said, I did try running a low volume signal from FT-817ND to a win8 tablet via the combo plug that has phones + mic in one 3.5mm plug
[13:59] <Vaizki> and it worked fine
[13:59] <fsphil> most mic inputs can handle line level these days
[14:00] <chris_99> oh neato
[14:00] <chris_99> so i can get http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-5mm-Audio-Jack-to-Headphone-Microphone-Splitter-Converter-Adaptor-fr-PC-Mobile-/262041461048 ?
[14:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EsserChase1_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EsserChase1_chase
[14:00] <AndyEsser> :)
[14:00] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[14:00] <fsphil> yeah that *should* work chris_99
[14:00] <fsphil> looks a bit weird
[14:00] <chris_99> awesome i'll get one to play with
[14:00] <chris_99> yeah the shape is funny
[14:03] <AndyEsser> How do people handle weather cancelling launches?
[14:04] <AndyEsser> ie, do you file a "backup day" NOTAM at the same time?
[14:04] <AndyEsser> or atually just cancel it, refile paperwork, and try again?
[14:04] <mfa298> I think it depends a bit on who you are, and what options you have
[14:04] <cm13g09> mfa298: sorry for latency
[14:04] <cm13g09> -> PM
[14:06] <Hix> #rooms
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[14:10] <Vaizki> I have a cable that splits into two
[14:10] <Vaizki> handier than an adapter
[14:10] <fsphil> AndyEsser: when requesting permission, ask for a range rather than a day
[14:11] <Vaizki> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stereo-Audio-Male-to-2-Female-Microphone-Headphone-3-5mm-Splitter-Cable-Adapter-/262103017814?hash=item3d068ea956:g:KmMAAOSwwbdWJgsm
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[14:11] <Vaizki> something like that, 80cm
[14:11] <Vaizki> the 15-20cm ones are painful
[14:13] <AndyEsser> fsphil: ah ok - thing I read about NOTAMs is try to be more accurate :P
[14:13] <AndyEsser> s/is/said
[14:14] <chris_99> cheers Vaizki just ordered one like that
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[14:14] <fsphil> yeah but you can't predict the weather 28 days in advance :)
[14:14] <AndyEsser> Yea, was where my line of thinking was :)
[14:14] <AndyEsser> Hence the question
[14:14] <AndyEsser> ok, so it's fine to file a NOTAM for 7,8,9th June?
[14:14] <AndyEsser> etc
[14:14] <fsphil> it helps to add in your own restrictions. like weekend only, certain hours
[14:15] <fsphil> yeah
[14:15] <adamgreig> asking for a NOTAM for one weekend and then the following weekend is common
[14:15] <AndyEsser> and then clarify it further to say only between 1000 and 1200 or something
[14:15] <fsphil> I got every weekend in a month once, but don't start with that :)
[14:15] <AndyEsser> haha
[14:15] <adamgreig> they'll often ask you to let them know if you were able to launch on the first weekend, so they can cancel the second one
[14:15] <adamgreig> I wouldn't say between 1000 and 1200 on your first launch
[14:15] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: just let CAA know afterwards I guess?
[14:15] <AndyEsser> Well yea
[14:16] <AndyEsser> first launch would be like
[14:16] <AndyEsser> ALL OF THESE DAYS, ALL OF THESE HOURS
[14:16] <AndyEsser> WE'LL EVENTUALLY LAUNCH
[14:16] <adamgreig> just ask for a weekend and the weekend a week after is probably OK
[14:16] <AndyEsser> :)
[14:16] <fsphil> or make a pico and launch whenever you want
[14:16] <AndyEsser> what's the altitude before you have to file a NOTAM?
[14:16] <AndyEsser> fsphil: pico?
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> A balloon and payload which is entirely enclosed by a 2m sphere at all points in flight.
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> This does not require regulation
[14:17] <SpeedEvil> err - approval
[14:18] <chris_99> would that be the majority of balloons?
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> No.
[14:18] <adamgreig> it wouldn't be any latex balloons really
[14:18] <AndyEsser> well most balloons will go far beyond 2m at altitude surely?
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> Not just at launch
[14:18] <adamgreig> (there is some argument about the 100g but you're on shaky grounds..)
[14:18] <AndyEsser> SpeedEvil: so it's not alttude, it's "envelope" size?
[14:18] <SpeedEvil> yes
[14:18] <AndyEsser> ah cool
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
[14:19] <SpeedEvil> has speced >=1.6m burst
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[14:19] <chris_99> wow some burst with > 10m diameter, did not know that
[14:19] <AndyEsser> tbh, filing a NOTAM is not my biggest concern with my first launch :)
[14:21] <daveake> You're in Cheshire?
[14:21] <AndyEsser> daveake: I am
[14:21] <daveake> Near Manc airport ?
[14:21] <SpeedEvil> 2m/s with 100g pawan gets to 16km
[14:21] <AndyEsser> "near" depends on terms
[14:21] <AndyEsser> but yes
[14:21] <SpeedEvil> which is a good test height perhaps
[14:21] <AndyEsser> I don't plan on doing any launches from here
[14:21] <daveake> You might want to move a bit
[14:21] <AndyEsser> haha
[14:21] <SpeedEvil> compared to a 35km/5m/s launch
[14:22] <daveake> I asked once for a launch at Jodrell Bank
[14:22] <daveake> "That would be tricky"
[14:22] <AndyEsser> for the exception of my "Throw out of window" launches, and chase car testing, I'm planning on doing most of my launches in Cambs/Oxford ways
[14:22] <AndyEsser> daveake: I can imagine
[14:22] <chris_99> awh that'd make for a cool photo daveake
[14:23] <daveake> I once landed near a radio dish
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> Only get points for inside.
[14:23] <daveake> http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/P1070994-682x1024.jpg
[14:23] <russss> jodrell bank are really testy about radio transmissions near them. We asked them if they'd be willing to host EMF and they said no because the interference cuts into their observation time
[14:23] <daveake> It was headed for the dish, then turned away
[14:23] <AndyEsser> daveake: seriously... you're that close
[14:23] <AndyEsser> ha
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[14:24] <AndyEsser> zero points :P
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> 'host EMF' ?
[14:24] <russss> www.emfcamp.org
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[14:24] <SpeedEvil> ah
[14:24] <AndyEsser> I found out about EMF last week
[14:24] <daveake> Yes they really don't like radio transmissions nearby
[14:24] <AndyEsser> definitely planning on going :)
[14:24] <chris_99> that looks fun :)
[14:25] <russss> presumably they have a set amount of time per year for outreach events where they just call off the science
[14:26] <chris_99> science never sleeps! or something ;)
[14:26] <AndyEsser> "call off the science"
[14:26] <AndyEsser> you sound like Trumpy...
[14:26] <AndyEsser> :P
[14:26] <AndyEsser> err... Trump*
[14:27] <russss> I should put when the tickets are on sale on the website really
[14:28] Nick change: berndj-blackout -> berndj
[14:29] <AndyEsser> russss: You're one of the organisers?
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[14:29] <russss> yep, for my sins
[14:29] <AndyEsser> :)
[14:29] <AndyEsser> Awesome, like I Said, only found out about it last week, but so definitely going this year :) (err... next year... 2016)
[14:43] <fsphil> I think a fair few here are going
[14:43] <fsphil> I'm hoping too anyway
[14:43] <AndyEsser> Awesome, if I haven't already by that time, hope to meet some of you :)
[14:43] <AndyEsser> So... I'm having a moment here
[14:43] <fsphil> depends how close to ukhas2016 it is, if that happens
[14:44] <jonsowman> it'll happen
[14:44] <fsphil> sweet
[14:44] <AndyEsser> desperately trying to find out what frequency xtal I need for this AVR
[14:44] <fsphil> I should do something for it this time
[14:44] <fsphil> AndyEsser: if in doubt, 8mhz
[14:44] <AndyEsser> That's what I've got selected atm on Farnell - I just couldn't find out how Xtal frequency, related to CPU speed
[14:44] <AndyEsser> :(
[14:44] <daveake> But if you want it to run a decent speed, 8MHz
[14:45] <adamgreig> AndyEsser: on an AVR, the CPU speed equals the crystal frequency
[14:45] <adamgreig> on 5V you could use a 16MHz crystal, on 3.3V you should stick with 8MHz (I think 12 is also in-spec?)
[14:45] <fsphil> if you want a precise baud rate, 7.3728 mhz
[14:45] <AndyEsser> so an 8MHz xtal results in a CPU of 8MHz?
[14:45] <adamgreig> yep
[14:46] <adamgreig> (note that on more sophisticated microcontrollers and things that's not the case, they multiply up the crystal frequency to get the CPU speed)
[14:46] <AndyEsser> hm, so the 20 MHz that the AVR 328 says, is if I were to stick a 20 MHz xtal on the board?
[14:46] <adamgreig> yes
[14:46] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[14:46] <AndyEsser> thanks :)
[14:46] <fsphil> the avr has a clock prescaler, so it can be reduced
[14:46] <daveake> but not for 3.3V operation
[14:46] <daveake> (20MHz)
[14:47] <AndyEsser> ok, so 8MHz xtal, with a Vcc of 3.3v should give me 8MHz clock speed
[14:47] <fsphil> I've used both 8 and 7.3728 mhz with hab trackers
[14:47] <fsphil> fast enough to do basic jpeg processing
[14:48] <AndyEsser> fsphil: for those xtals, do you know the cap values to use, or are those fairly standardised regardless of frequency, as well?
[14:48] <fsphil> not counting the DCT, which to be fair is the slowest part of jpeg
[14:49] <fsphil> I just copied another schematic
[14:49] <adamgreig> the cap values depend on the specific crystal you buy, the datasheet for the crystal will tell you
[14:49] <AndyEsser> adamgreig: ah cool -t hanks
[14:49] <AndyEsser> :)
[14:49] <AndyEsser> err...
[14:49] <AndyEsser> thanks*
[14:49] <fsphil> I read some stuff on how to chose a crystal, and just confused myself more
[14:49] <AndyEsser> ha
[14:49] <AndyEsser> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/314851.pdf
[14:49] <adamgreig> yea the capacitance on the crystal datasheet is often not the value of capacitor you should put on it
[14:49] <AndyEsser> I guess this is a dataSHEET in it's truest sense ;)
[14:50] <fsphil> http://www.st.com/web/en/resource/technical/document/application_note/CD00221665.pdf
[14:50] <fsphil> for STM but may apply to other micros
[14:50] <adamgreig> https://blog.adafruit.com/2012/01/24/choosing-the-right-crystal-and-caps-for-your-design/
[14:50] <adamgreig> ^ quite general advice for beginners
[14:50] <fsphil> ooh good
[14:54] <AndyEsser> right, according to that super helpful page
[14:54] <AndyEsser> aiming for something like 50pF
[14:57] <AndyEsser> 47pF gives me a possible 'stray' capacitance of 6.5pF
[14:57] <AndyEsser> that should be enough wiggle room
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[15:01] <AndyEsser> 5 controllers, and associated xtals etc ordered :)
[15:02] <AndyEsser> My weekend is going to be FUN :)
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[15:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 038_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=8_chase
[15:13] <Hix> Does anyone own "The Art of Electronics"? are there better texts out there or is this the EE quivalent of K&R?
[15:14] <Vaizki> AndyEsser, which controllers?
[15:14] <AndyEsser> ATmega 328
[15:14] <AndyEsser> as suggested earlier today
[15:15] <AndyEsser> Hix: I bought thit last month that seems to cover pretty much everything in just the right amount of detail
[15:15] <AndyEsser> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0415662850?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00
[15:17] <Hix> (y)
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[15:24] <Vaizki> contains problems
[15:24] <Vaizki> I've got enough of those
[15:24] <AndyEsser> haha
[15:24] <AndyEsser> You got 99 problems, and the solutions aren't included?
[15:24] <AndyEsser> :P
[15:25] <adamgreig> AoE is quite good to read through and is really well suited to relative beginners i think
[15:25] <adamgreig> not as good a reference volume as i might have hoped
[15:25] <adamgreig> but it introduces everything you might want to know about electronics really
[15:25] <Vaizki> I don't count them, I just roll them in a ball and bitch about life in general
[15:25] <adamgreig> including a fair deal of reasonably serious stuff
[15:25] <chris_99> i was just looking to get the art of electronics but amazon themselves aren't selling it atm apparently
[15:26] <AndyEsser> chris_99: got a bookshop near you?
[15:27] <AndyEsser> Most should allow you to order books if you have the ISBN
[15:27] <chris_99> mmm true
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[15:56] <AndyEsser> Eurgh, why do I have to deal with client work tonight :( I want to be tinkering instead!
[15:57] <fsphil> customers eh
[15:58] <AndyEsser> indeed, clients that are still changing things when the deadline is Friday
[15:58] <AndyEsser> *sigh*
[15:58] <Vaizki> you will naturally incorporate them into the mkII model
[15:58] <AndyEsser> ?
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[16:10] <mattbrejza> adamgreig: AoE has a second half coming out at some point?
[16:11] <jonsowman> ls
[16:11] <jonsowman> oops
[16:11] <jonsowman> :)
[16:11] <AndyEsser> lol
[16:11] <AndyEsser> err
[16:11] <AndyEsser> .
[16:11] <AndyEsser> ..
[16:11] <AndyEsser> AndyEsser
[16:11] Action: AndyEsser can't type out whole list
[16:11] <jonsowman> no please don't
[16:11] <mattbrejza> 'The x chapters book will come out in no more than two years timeI would like it to be less. Its already about fifty percent written with figures and everything else already.'
[16:13] <adamgreig> I hadn't heard anything about that
[16:13] <adamgreig> it's big enough as is!
[16:13] <mattbrejza> you know when it says, 'you can read more in chapter x2.1'?
[16:13] <mattbrejza> its refering to the rest of the book thats not out yet :P
[16:13] <AndyEsser> ha
[16:13] <adamgreig> lol
[16:15] <mattbrejza> there is also a n00b friendly version coming out http://artofelectronics.net/student-manual/
[16:18] Nick change: Guest35510 -> nigelvh
[16:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PIBUG after 0317 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PIBUG
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[17:39] <AndyEsser> highly disappointed in the reaction from my sister-in-law when I told I plan on sending a camera to 40km altitude to take pretty pictures :(
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[18:09] <Ian_> No imagination! :)
[18:09] <AndyEsser> indeed
[18:09] <AndyEsser> I was like "But you love space and stuff"
[18:09] <AndyEsser> and her response was "Yes, and I understand the interest in building it... but I don't get the excitement about sending it up!!"
[18:09] <AndyEsser> useless woman
[18:10] <AndyEsser> :P
[18:11] <Ian_> . . . you might lose all that expensive equipment . . . NASA might not have got going if discussed with the distaff side prior to making up their minds.
[18:12] <Ian_> When you get it all back, the risks are forgotten and you become hero for the day!
[18:12] <Lunar_LanderC> hello
[18:12] <Ian_> Hello!
[18:12] <AndyEsser> "We'll build this awesome rocket, but we're not atually going to send it up incase it breaks"
[18:12] <AndyEsser> Ian_: heh
[18:13] <fsphil> * yuri gagarin reads through the mission brief ... "You know, let's not."
[18:13] <AndyEsser> haha
[18:13] <Ian_> Yuri, we have this plan to get you a break from the wife for a few hours . . . interested?
[18:14] <Ian_> The rest is history
[18:14] <AndyEsser> haha
[18:14] <AndyEsser> am enjoying the fact I'm not having to explain to anyone why I've bought loads of stuff
[18:14] <Ian_> Hi Lunar_Lander, Good day today? No Ublox disasters
[18:15] <Ian_> I like when the XYL misses the postman. That way my Chinese deliveries seem . . . moderate
[18:20] <Ian_> AndyEsser, following up on an earlier thread, this might be of interest, particularly the AVR Fuse Calculator
[18:20] <Lunar_LanderC> hi
[18:20] <Ian_> Atmega328P-PU in particular.
[18:20] <AndyEsser> I saw the AVR Fuse Calculator linked from another page
[18:20] <AndyEsser> sooo helpful :)
[18:21] <Ian_> Whoops - here is the link . . . drum roll . . . http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/
[18:21] <AndyEsser> ha
[18:21] <AndyEsser> Yea, that's the one I stumbled on :)
[18:21] <Lunar_LanderC> yea first of all my variable age changed from 0x19 to 0x1A
[18:21] <AndyEsser> err, happy birthday, I believe?
[18:21] <AndyEsser> :)
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[18:21] <Lunar_LanderC> thanks :)
[18:22] <Ian_> Ditto, Happy Birthday
[18:23] <Lunar_LanderC> :) thank you
[18:23] <Lunar_LanderC> well the most interesting thing for you I suppose is what happened on the system testing
[18:23] <Ian_> ??? nothing too dramatic? :)
[18:24] <Lunar_LanderC> well the first thing was dumb and happenend yesterday
[18:24] <fsphil> happy age++
[18:24] <Ian_> Was that the PSU connected oversight?
[18:24] <Lunar_LanderC> the fan did not switch off after about 3 hours, there was a simple if statement that would switch off the fan after 2700 telemetry lines
[18:24] <Lunar_LanderC> no another thing
[18:24] <Lunar_LanderC> thanks phil
[18:24] <Lunar_LanderC> the fan still ran, and so the final runtime was about 9 h
[18:25] <Lunar_LanderC> there was no function call for that if statement
[18:25] <Lunar_LanderC> :(
[18:25] <Lunar_LanderC> i.e. I didn't include that function to be called in the program
[18:25] <Ian_> Oh no, not another three hour testing session . . . deadline looms
[18:25] <Lunar_LanderC> yea
[18:25] <Lunar_LanderC> well the thing is, we wanted to see how long the batteries would last if the fan shuts off in the end
[18:26] <Lunar_LanderC> for the actual flight I made a construct that shuts it off just before landing
[18:27] <Lunar_LanderC> here comes the thing however
[18:27] <Lunar_LanderC> I put the SD into the reader and into the PC and it didn't open
[18:27] <Lunar_LanderC> checked fdisk -l, it was there
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[18:29] <Lunar_LanderC> long story short, installed photorec and got four fragments of the log out of it :)
[18:29] <Lunar_LanderC> that was a great relief
[18:29] <Lunar_LanderC> but the SD seems to be gone
[18:32] <AndyEsser> russss: did we prompt you earlier :P
[18:32] <russss> nah this is basically what I'm doing all week
[18:32] <russss> :P
[18:33] <AndyEsser> Ah ok
[18:33] <AndyEsser> Quick q - how quickly typically does the first batch run out?
[18:33] <russss> I'm under-employed at the moment so I'm trying to get as many tickets sold as possible while that's still the case '_
[18:33] <russss> well, this is the earliest we've ever sold tickets and it's the largest initial batch we've ever sold
[18:33] <russss> so lots of variables have changed
[18:33] <fsphil> oh they're on sale already?
[18:34] <russss> Monday, Monday, Monday
[18:34] <AndyEsser> Monday
[18:34] <fsphil> Monday!
[18:34] <AndyEsser> fsphil: you're totally signed up the newsletter, right?
[18:34] <fsphil> totally
[18:34] Action: fsphil googles
[18:34] <russss> I doubt they'll sell out immediately, I fear for our ticket sales system if they do
[18:35] <AndyEsser> heh, I really shouldn't splunk out £100 half-way through December, but should have a nice chunk of client payment coming that week
[18:35] <AndyEsser> so... what the heck :)
[18:35] <fsphil> oh, it's Monday
[18:35] <AndyEsser> Monday
[18:37] <Lunar_LanderC> Ian_, that looks very interesting imo http://s.gullipics.com/image/4/2/9/5yv98w-l2k8vb-zkt/2015120809Temperatures.jpeg
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[18:42] <AndyEsser> Guess I should make sure I still own a tent...
[18:44] <fsphil> I'll probably buy one locally
[18:44] <Lunar_LanderC> yea
[18:44] <Lunar_LanderC> -106°C
[18:44] <mattbrejza> habville is gonna be pretty big this time round
[18:44] <mattbrejza> might be in need of suburbs...
[18:44] <fsphil> though everyone else might have the same idea, and no shop will have any tents for sale
[18:44] <mattbrejza> was fine last time
[18:45] <mattbrejza> we were super keen though and up there friday morning
[18:45] <fsphil> will figure something out
[18:46] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: as I'm the n00b
[18:46] <AndyEsser> can I request everyone wear nametags? :P
[18:46] <fsphil> hah
[18:46] <AndyEsser> I hate going to events/expos and people are like "O you're Andy? I follow you on TWitter!"
[18:46] <fsphil> we all have name tags at ukhas
[18:46] <AndyEsser> and then trying to figure out who they are (I don't know names, just twitter handles)
[18:46] <mattbrejza> there'll be quite a lot of people non-ukhas in habville i think
[18:47] <AndyEsser> there's non-ukas habbers?
[18:47] <AndyEsser> :O
[18:47] <mattbrejza> well people who dont hang around here
[18:47] <fsphil> if there is a spaceville, should we be near it?
[18:47] <mattbrejza> and people who know people
[18:48] <Lunar_LanderC> habville sounds cool
[18:48] <fsphil> there's probably a hamville too
[18:48] <LazyLeopard> ...and different names in different places. ;)
[18:48] <fsphil> habvalla
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[18:49] <mattbrejza> https://wiki.emfcamp.org/wiki/Village:HABville
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[18:49] <Lunar_LanderC> cool!
[18:49] <fsphil> sweet
[18:49] <fsphil> should we arrange a notam for it? any problems with the location
[18:50] <mattbrejza> not sure how our bbq setup will work next time though
[18:50] <fsphil> I'm sure there will be many quads there
[18:50] <fsphil> could get one to video a launch
[18:51] <mattbrejza> i can see guildford being a no for notams
[18:51] <fsphil> urg
[18:51] <Lunar_LanderC> airport?
[18:52] <mattbrejza> its just too close to london
[18:52] <mattbrejza> and there are many planes that fly over there on their way to gatwick/heathrow
[18:54] <AndyEsser> Dunsfold aerodrome isn't too far
[18:54] <Lunar_LanderC> ah
[18:54] <AndyEsser> I believe it's outside the Heathrow/Gatwick low-fly zones though
[18:54] <AndyEsser> might be worth investigating?
[18:55] <russss> dunsfold isn't in regular use as an airport though
[18:55] <AndyEsser> When I've flown from Redhill Aerodrome before, the 1000-ft alttude restriction ran out pretty quickly
[18:55] <AndyEsser> However, depending on winds the balloon would fly over London + Heathrow/Gatwick
[18:55] <AndyEsser> would be better if it could fly SouthWest
[18:55] <AndyEsser> heh
[18:56] <mattbrejza> hmm actually we tried for farnham and that was a no, so guildford will probably be no too
[18:56] <russss> Farnborough and Blackbushe are the nearest operational airports
[18:56] <AndyEsser> Launch some Picos'?
[18:56] <russss> but yeah, if Farnham is a no then Guildford probably will be
[18:56] <AndyEsser> what are the rules about manned balloons?
[18:57] <mattbrejza> unless you want to launch before 5.30
[18:57] <fsphil> no snakes
[18:57] <mattbrejza> the issue with fleet was heathrow's arrival traffic rather than anything more local
[18:57] <fsphil> if that's not a rule it should be
[18:57] <chris_99> thinking of sending yourself up AndyEsser?
[18:58] <AndyEsser> chris_99: ha no, just noticed there's a fair number of hot air balloon places around Guildford
[18:58] <AndyEsser> fsphil: but Snakes On a Hot Air Balloon doesn't have a good ring to it
[18:59] <mattbrejza> (sunrise is at 5.32 so a 5.30 launch would actually be mostly light)
[18:59] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: I'd be up for that :)
[19:00] <russss> at least you won't have to go far to launch
[19:00] <AndyEsser> There's an unmanned balloon NOTAM filed for Farnham
[19:00] <mattbrejza> makes a change...
[19:00] <AndyEsser> Ah nevermind...
[19:00] <AndyEsser> 428ft max altitude
[19:00] <daveake> Manchester Space Programme?
[19:01] <daveake> (they launched on a hill, into a tree, last time)
[19:01] <AndyEsser> heh
[19:02] <AndyEsser> I imagine my first launch will go even worse
[19:03] <AndyEsser> Was just trying to work out why there was a NOTAM for a railway
[19:03] <AndyEsser> then realised that RWY means runway... not railway...
[19:03] <Laurenceb> heh
[19:03] <AndyEsser> I am not a smart man
[19:04] <Laurenceb> today I thought of a "practical" use for the reaction engines precooler
[19:04] <mattbrejza> chilling beer?
[19:04] <Laurenceb> bouyancy control on massive airships
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[19:04] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: I watched a video where a guy did that once :)
[19:04] <Laurenceb> the skylon precooler is perfectly sized for a megaton container carrying airship
[19:05] <Laurenceb> use a liquid ammonia thermal store at ~ -84C to cool lifting gas and warm it back up again
[19:07] <Laurenceb> seems to weigh about a third of the buoyancy shift range it gives you, much better than anything else I've seen
[19:08] <Laurenceb> "just" needs a lightweight ~10GW heat exchanger
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[19:12] <fsphil> https://wiki.emfcamp.org/w/images/f/f0/Village-HABville.jpeg -- what's the blue thing in the back left?
[19:13] <AndyEsser> taps?
[19:13] <AndyEsser> for washing hands having used the porta?
[19:13] <AndyEsser> russss: have the dates for EMF 2016 been released btw?
[19:13] <AndyEsser> nvm
[19:13] Action: AndyEsser bothers to read email
[19:13] <Vaizki> Beertaps mmm
[19:14] <fsphil> helium taps!
[19:14] <AndyEsser> fsphil: that'd be cool :)
[19:14] <fsphil> totally wouldn't be used to make funny voices
[19:14] <fsphil> we are a responsable lot
[19:15] <AndyEsser> I assume that's a rite of passage at launches?
[19:15] <AndyEsser> :P
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[19:15] <Vaizki> yea liike hydrogen fire breathing
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[19:17] <AndyEsser> I don't think I've actually ever done the whole breath helium
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[19:17] <fsphil> done it a few times
[19:17] <Laurenceb> AndyEsser: its a very silly idea
[19:17] <fsphil> dangerous
[19:17] <Laurenceb> you can asphyxiate yourself
[19:17] <fsphil> I got light headed just doing it once
[19:17] <Laurenceb> I've done this accidentally with N2
[19:18] <AndyEsser> Auto-erotic asphyxiation
[19:18] <fsphil> it doesn't get you high
[19:18] <Laurenceb> recognised the symptoms and bailed out quickly
[19:18] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb: :(
[19:18] <Laurenceb> but theres not long between feeling light headed and passing out
[19:18] <Laurenceb> like ten seconds or less
[19:18] <fsphil> yeah, took some deep breaths and all good
[19:18] <Laurenceb> if you are in an area with too little oxygen and pass out its curtains for you
[19:19] <AndyEsser> Indeed
[19:19] <fsphil> unless this is the afterlife. which still have youtub and netflix, so yay
[19:19] <AndyEsser> I need to rig my Microsoft Band so it alerts appropriate people if my heart stops etc
[19:19] <AndyEsser> fsphil: lol
[19:19] <AndyEsser> Netflix and Cloud
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[19:41] <AndyEsser> Why don't teleporters exist yet :(
[19:41] <AndyEsser> I want my parts now :(
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[20:00] <Lunar_LanderC> yea
[20:08] <AndyEsser> Have just received delivery notification from Maplin of some parts though :)
[20:09] <fsphil> oh yea, maplin still exist
[20:29] <AndyEsser> lol
[20:29] <AndyEsser> Maplin, RS and Farnell are my "go to" suppliers atm
[20:31] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03F4HHV after 037 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=F4HHV
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[20:36] <SpeedEvil> Do you have a maplin store nearby?
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> I looked at maplin a couple of years ago, when I found they had one (1) triac.
[20:37] <Ian_> Maplin mail order is OK, but the stores tend to be a little on the lightweight side of things, having changed a lot over the years.
[20:40] <AndyEsser> SpeedEvil: yes, less than 10 minutes away :)
[20:40] <AndyEsser> I popped in on Saturday to pic up some parts, but I took their last 2 6v relays and transitors, so had to order the remainder online
[20:41] <AndyEsser> but was so awesome to just go to back, right out what I want, and tada!
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[20:41] <AndyEsser> and also speak to someone who was knowledgeable about elecronics
[20:41] <AndyEsser> electronics*
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[20:50] <fsphil> I usually get bits from CPC, who seem to be slightly cheaper than farnell despite being the same company
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[20:52] <slee> hello, does anyone know of an alternative to SondeMonitor(for tracking/decoding radiosondes)?
[20:53] <fsphil> never seen anything else do it
[20:54] <chris_99> what modulation do radiosondes use?
[20:54] <fsphil> gfsk for the uk ones
[20:55] <slee> haven't tried to look for one yet, just decided to mess with them, next set won't be released for 2 more hours
[20:55] <fsphil> 2400 baud
[20:55] <fsphil> yeah they tend to get released about 40 minutes before midnight and midday
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[20:55] <fsphil> UTC
[20:56] <slee> yea, read it on NOAA website and also confirmed it with my local weather folk
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[20:56] <chris_99> how do you find when/where they launch them, might take a stab at using that program
[20:56] <fsphil> I've tracked a few. one landed nearby but I never found it
[20:56] <slee> chris_99, http://www.ua.nws.noaa.gov/factsheet.htm
[20:57] <slee> as far as 'where' they launch them...i'm guessing each major airport has a weather station..according to this local weather person
[20:58] <fsphil> http://www.radiosonde.eu/RS02/RS02A.html#02
[20:58] <fsphil> all the sonde launch sites in the UK, http://www.radiosonde.eu/RS02/RS02J.html
[20:58] <chris_99> neat
[20:59] <chris_99> sondemonitor seems to load ok in wine too
[20:59] <slee> US launch sites(but it doesn't show my local one) http://web.gps.caltech.edu/~bordoni/ese132/docs/April2612.pdf
[20:59] <fsphil> it does work in wine (fedora user here)
[20:59] <fsphil> it's a bit ugly though
[21:00] <slee> yea, same people wrote planeplotter/shipplotter..i use both
[21:00] <slee> both work good under wine
[21:00] <slee> and well
[21:01] <fsphil> it never seems to get the gps almanac automatically for me. I always have to download it manually
[21:01] <slee> which?
[21:02] <slee> sondemonitor?
[21:02] <fsphil> yeah
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[21:04] <fsphil> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=a9fd039c8c5c58e2f1dd4a63725e3bb231e34d18
[21:04] <fsphil> anyone near Kelso want a sonde? :)
[21:05] <slee> one would have to land fairly close to me to go hunt it down
[21:06] <slee> or have your laptop/dongle in your car and tray and keep up with it
[21:06] <slee> s/tray/try
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[21:33] <slee> chris_99, the 2 used by US:LMS-6 built by Lockheed Martin
[21:33] <slee> RS92-NGP built by Vaisala
[21:34] <chris_99> cool, will have a look
[21:34] <slee> not sure which to decode until i see one in the air...i tried to find a recording online to download and test with, no luck so far
[21:34] <chris_99> maybe theres some info
[21:34] <chris_99> on them
[21:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> The rs92 released here i Sweden tx untill about 9 am so I go to the landning spot in the morning and look for it, the do onlyu relese them at night here
[21:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> the rinex file gets me in 25m of accuracy
[21:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> 9am wintertime and 10pm summertime
[21:37] <SA6BSS-Mike> *10am
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[21:43] <AndyEsser> Woo! Farnell order shipped
[21:43] <AndyEsser> gimme microcontrollers!
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> bc:)
[21:44] <AndyEsser> now back to client work :(
[21:44] <AndyEsser> *sigh*
[21:45] <chris_99> slee, are you using that program with gqrx?
[21:46] <slee> i will try, right now i'm trying to decode the audio of one over youtube
[21:46] <slee> have to figure out with model
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[21:48] <chris_99> yeah i was wondering what settings to use, for modulation, i presume some kind of FM but not sure which one
[21:49] <slee> NFM
[21:49] <slee> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz2id1cBmjs
[21:49] <slee> he's using sdr# though
[21:50] <fsphil> just noticed on the emfcamp faq, "Things prohibited by our contract: balloons, sky lanterns and the like"
[21:51] <chris_99> cheers slee
[21:51] <AndyEsser> fsphil: awww :(
[21:52] <AndyEsser> I presume they mean like... party balloons
[21:52] <fsphil> russss: would that include say a pico launch? ^
[21:52] Action: AndyEsser hopes
[21:54] <russss> oh that wording actually comes from last year (where there was a HAB launch)
[21:54] <russss> I'll remove it when I get home
[21:54] <craag> aww :(
[21:54] <craag> Wasn't there a no balloons rule last year and we got an exception?
[21:54] <AndyEsser> russss: so that means we could do a HAB launch?
[21:55] <craag> (for the latex met balloon release)
[21:55] <craag> we'd totally be up for doing it again this coming year if we could
[21:55] <AndyEsser> ^
[21:56] <AndyEsser> If I stay on schedule, I'll have done at least one launch by then :)
[21:56] <AndyEsser> be good to see how the professionals do it
[21:57] <Vaizki> well nasa has videos up .. :)
[22:00] <daveake> Yeah, this is how NASA do it .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMwKVPW5iIw
[22:02] <LazyLeopard> Ah, yes. Always good to see how the experts handle things.
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[22:03] <AndyEsser> :P
[22:04] <AndyEsser> ooops
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[22:05] <chris_99> has anyone tracked a uk sonde, i'm looking at http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/science/first-steps/making-observations/upper-air it says they're launched at 2315 UTC
[22:09] <slee> an hour to go
[22:09] <chris_99> you in the UK too?
[22:09] <slee> no, US
[22:09] <chris_99> aha
[22:09] <slee> 2315UTC = 1715CT
[22:09] <russss> yes, if you can get a notam for a launch at EMF, we're not stopping you :)
[22:10] <AndyEsser> \o/
[22:10] <AndyEsser> Do you need a separate NOTAM for each payload/balloon - or can just say "Balloons launched on these dates"?
[22:10] <AndyEsser> and have a single POC
[22:11] <russss> I don't think there's anything in our contract which mentions balloons, but if there is I can almost certainly negotiate an exemption
[22:11] <craag> thanks :)
[22:12] <craag> AndyEsser: Easiest to do a notam per release, although a release can be of more than one balloon.
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[22:13] <craag> But perhaps a notam per day at least
[22:13] <AndyEsser> craag: yea
[22:13] <AndyEsser> was just wondering if it's worth just arranging a NOTAM per day from 5am to whenever
[22:13] <craag> We'll look at it
[22:13] <AndyEsser> and then people there can just go "Great, I've brought my balloon!"
[22:13] <AndyEsser> :)
[22:13] <craag> See if we can get one at all
[22:13] <craag> last year we did a 100g
[22:14] <AndyEsser> grunt
[22:14] <AndyEsser> err... oops
[22:14] <AndyEsser> wrong window
[22:14] <craag> https://philcrump.co.uk/images/a/a1/Emf-hab-balloon.jpg
[22:14] <russss> we might get a NOTAM for lasers this year...
[22:15] <Lunar_LanderC> cool!
[22:15] <craag> ha sweet
[22:15] <AndyEsser> "lasers"
[22:15] <mattbrejza> how about rockets?
[22:16] <Lunar_LanderC> hi craag
[22:16] <craag> evening Lunar_LanderC
[22:19] <russss> not sure we can do rockets
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[22:26] Nick change: Lunar_LanderC -> Lunar_Lander
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[22:43] <AndyEsser> Eagle Users - does it have a standard tactile switches in it's library by default?
[22:45] <Vaizki> I recommend you grab some more libraries..
[22:45] <Vaizki> like https://github.com/sparkfun/SparkFun-Eagle-Libraries
[22:45] <AndyEsser> :)
[22:45] <Vaizki> and remember to enable them
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> KiCAD
[22:48] <AndyEsser> Lunar_Lander: lost my temper with KiCAD :P
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[22:49] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[22:49] <AndyEsser> it's DRC rules kept upsetting me ;)
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[23:13] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: still around and available to be bugged?
[23:14] <Vaizki> you want me to bust a drug deal or what's up?
[23:15] <AndyEsser> haha
[23:15] <AndyEsser> I can't seem to get an Eagle schematic to 'join' wires at a junction
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[23:16] <AndyEsser> Is there a magic button I need to press when drawing wires?
[23:16] <Vaizki> like crossing 2 traces?
[23:16] <AndyEsser> Yea
[23:16] <AndyEsser> if I cross two, it doesn't join them, just leaves them as distinct tracks
[23:17] <Vaizki> well first of all, always ALWAYS use networks
[23:17] <Vaizki> not wire
[23:17] <AndyEsser> gorramit
[23:17] <AndyEsser> quick test shows that works exactly how I want
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[23:18] <Vaizki> the net tool defines connections, pours etc that should share the same "signal"
[23:18] <Vaizki> the wire tool.. well I honestly haven't gotten around to figuring out what it's good for
[23:19] <Vaizki> I never use it
[23:19] <AndyEsser> haha, fair enough
[23:19] <AndyEsser> ok, so net not wire
[23:20] <Vaizki> and if you are drawing schematic, you need to put junctions in at crossings
[23:20] <Vaizki> although it should make them automatically
[23:20] <Vaizki> been a while since I did any pcb layout..
[23:21] <Vaizki> https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/using-eagle-schematic/wiring-up-the-schematic
[23:21] <Vaizki> some helpful tips there
[23:21] <AndyEsser> Yea, working on schematic atm - using a net is putting junctions in properly where I need :)
[23:22] <Vaizki> see how that tutorial starts also.. :)
[23:22] <AndyEsser> http://imgur.com/ldi8j7N
[23:22] <AndyEsser> believe I've got the bare minimum to get the AVR running in :)
[23:23] <Vaizki> yea.. although I would name the nets and leave the AVR pins "hanging".. split up the maze of wires that way
[23:23] <AndyEsser> Ah ok
[23:23] <AndyEsser> rather than routing it all
[23:24] <AndyEsser> just have the labels MISO/MOSI/etc
[23:24] <AndyEsser> and then the appropriate links on the adapter
[23:24] <Vaizki> let me find an example
[23:24] <Vaizki> yea
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[23:25] <Vaizki> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/367935/eagle-sch-something.png
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[23:25] <Vaizki> first one I found on my hard drive..
[23:26] <Vaizki> not pretty and probably doesn't even work.. I think that's my first eagle schematic ever
[23:26] <Vaizki> and yes it's a tracker..
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[23:28] <AndyEsser> http://imgur.com/PtnlNRj
[23:28] <AndyEsser> Quickly changed the ISP connector
[23:28] <AndyEsser> definitely much neater
[23:28] <AndyEsser> thanks
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[23:29] <Vaizki> let me show you the board view as well..
[23:30] <AndyEsser> hehe
[23:30] <Ian_> AndyEsser, https://github.com/Upuaut/Eagle-Libraries courtesy Upu at http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[23:30] <Vaizki> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/367935/eagle-brd-something.png
[23:30] <AndyEsser> why do you have 2 ISP headers?
[23:30] <Vaizki> that board is a "bit" crowded
[23:30] <AndyEsser> Ian_: o0o
[23:31] <Vaizki> AndyEsser: look on the board view.. :)
[23:31] <Vaizki> jartza made some ISP cables with spring contacts to press onto the board
[23:32] <AndyEsser> ah ok
[23:32] <Vaizki> so I just put in both just for fun..
[23:32] <AndyEsser> gives you optios :)
[23:32] <AndyEsser> options*
[23:32] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: is there a way to highlight an area of components/nets and move in bulk?
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[23:33] <Vaizki> AndyEsser: you have to select them, then right click and move...
[23:33] <Vaizki> I mean right click and select move
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[23:34] <AndyEsser> Yea, but that only moves one component
[23:34] <AndyEsser> no way to move a selection?
[23:35] <Vaizki> hmm use group tool to select, right click, choose move, then right click + drag on a part of the grouå
[23:35] <Vaizki> most unintuitive thing in the world
[23:36] <Vaizki> or hmm depends on if you are windows or mac also I guess
[23:36] <Vaizki> google it :D
[23:36] <Vaizki> oh right there is a Move: Group when you right click
[23:36] <AndyEsser> Ah got it
[23:37] <AndyEsser> yea, but you have to have selected "Group" from the Edit (!) menu first
[23:37] <AndyEsser> and then you can drag a selection rubber band
[23:37] <AndyEsser> and then do Right-Click -> Move: Group
[23:37] <Vaizki> yea that's it
[23:37] <Vaizki> that's eagle for you!
[23:37] <AndyEsser> no keyboard shortcuts!
[23:37] <AndyEsser> gah
[23:37] <Vaizki> gui conventions are for people who don't have original ideas
[23:37] <Ian_> Spring contacts = pogo pins
[23:38] <Vaizki> Ian_: nah these are board-to-board stacking connectors
[23:38] <Vaizki> let me find them..
[23:39] <Vaizki> Ian_: http://www.avx.com/en/wp-content/uploads/L3-4-product-images/00-9188.jpg
[23:39] <Vaizki> they might be these
[23:39] <Vaizki> or extremely similar
[23:40] <Ian_> Ah OK. Can't say that I have seen those before. Neat, thanks
[23:42] <Vaizki> and the other side is just pcb with no solder mask or silkscreen
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[23:46] <AndyEsser> right, time for me to head off to bed - rare occasion that I'm heading to bed before midnight!
[23:46] <AndyEsser> hopefully my new toys arrive tomorrow ready for me to start testing and programming this weekend :)
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[00:00] --- Thu Dec 10 2015