highaltitude.log.20151107

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[00:04] Action: SpeedEvil hears mention of Skylon on the BBC.
[00:04] <SpeedEvil> (buisness daily, radio 4)
[00:05] <SpeedEvil> AU->sydney flights
[00:05] <SpeedEvil> err
[00:05] <SpeedEvil> UK
[00:07] <fsphil> AU->sydney could still be a stupidly long flight, from the other side of AU
[00:08] <fsphil> UK->orbit would be more fun
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[00:35] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I don't think they actually mentioned it could get to orbit
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[00:53] Action: Laurenceb__ fired his test stand
[00:53] <Laurenceb__> http://i.imgur.com/MZUTKgv.png
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[03:46] Nick change: Evidlo -> Chris_HanseN_2Le
[03:48] Nick change: Chris_HanseN_2Le -> im_chris_hansen
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[04:44] Nick change: day_ -> day
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[06:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03R2AGQ-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=R2AGQ-11
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[08:56] <Ian_> Seems that you have made good progress and overcome earlier problems.
[08:57] <Ian_> Because I don't know :) I guess that the really useful bit is where the force delivered is above 4N \
[08:59] <Ian_> but how much of a contribution does the tail of the burn < 3N make to the rocket flight? (keep it simple, please!)
[09:00] <Ian_> Significantly, moderately or not a lot?
[09:02] <Ian_> PS Nice looking chart. No criticism at all!
[09:05] <number10> I never heard of the Kenback-1 before http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34639183
[09:05] <number10> -c
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[11:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL6JOS-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL6JOS-11
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[12:26] Action: Laurenceb__ has been firing his test stand
[12:26] <Laurenceb__> http://i.imgur.com/wmqbtiw.png
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[13:46] <adamgreig> Laurence, cool, looks good
[13:47] <adamgreig> Is the data roughly in line with manufacturer claims?
[13:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AE0SS-13 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AE0SS-13
[13:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KE0BMV-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KE0BMV-11
[13:54] <Laurenceb__> adamgrieg: there are no manufacturer claims :P
[13:55] <Laurenceb__> its D class, so max 20Ns
[13:56] <Laurenceb__> there is a datasheet in internet archive, but the firing time is way off
[13:57] <Laurenceb__> then there are posts on German forums claiming anything between 16 and 24Ns
[13:57] <Laurenceb__> theres one seemingly compitent guy who got a good thrust curve giving 18.08Ns
[13:58] <Laurenceb__> so I'll trust his data, as my rig still has a few issues - the ignition cable wasnt in its best position
[14:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W0ISU-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W0ISU-11
[14:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W0ISU-9 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W0ISU-9
[14:09] <Laurenceb__> I also ignited it using the supercapacitor system
[14:09] <Laurenceb__> so very good news :D
[14:10] <Laurenceb__> next test will be supercap ignition in vacuum chamber
[14:10] <Laurenceb__> then final test is going to be spin up off stepladders with supercap igniter
[14:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K0SCC-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K0SCC-11
[14:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AE0SS-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AE0SS-12
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[15:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W7UQ-3 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W7UQ-3
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[15:30] <eroomde> Laurenceb__: nice work
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[15:46] <Laurenceb__> thanks ed
[15:46] <Laurenceb__> still need to look at frequency space
[15:46] <Laurenceb__> which looks quite interesting
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[16:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W7UQ-6 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W7UQ-6
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[16:33] <Laurenceb__> http://i.imgur.com/HlJ6iDX.png
[16:33] <Laurenceb__> somewhat boring - strain gauge resonant frequency
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[17:03] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[17:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD0NMG-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0NMG-11
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[17:39] <kc2pit> Laurenceb__: That's actually pretty cool. I think you can actually see the resonant frequency increase as the motor loses mass.
[17:40] <Laurenceb__> yeah it matches with the motor mass going from 30g to 10g, with a ~10g strain gauge and clamp mass
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[17:40] <Laurenceb__> where I screwed up was in the mounting of the cable to fire the ignition unit
[17:41] <Laurenceb__> they went across the strain gauge/load cell and gave some drifty offset. Also the cable dangled into the path of the exhaust, biassing the impulse downwards
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[18:27] <arjunnaha> What would be the cheapest desktop radio capable of 434MHz ?
[18:27] <arjunnaha> (Not SDR)
[18:27] <gonzo_nb> new or used?
[18:28] <mclane_> why not sdr?
[18:28] <arjunnaha> I don't mind (as long as it works!)
[18:28] <gonzo_nb> prob an old Ft790, for 75-100 squids
[18:29] <gonzo_nb> (would work fine mobile/portable too)
[18:32] <arjunnaha> I can only find that new on radioworld, would this be the cheapest new radio as well?
[18:33] <gonzo_nb> the old mk1 version, 30yrs old now, turn up occasionally. Someone on here may have oner tonsell?
[18:33] <gonzo_nb> one to sell
[18:34] <gonzo_nb> there aren't any 70cm only radios I know of these days
[18:34] <arjunnaha> Thanks
[18:35] <gonzo_nb> but any ham set that is 70cm ssb should be fine
[18:36] <gonzo_nb> or a v/uhf rx with ssb. Like ar5000 or an older ic-r7000
[18:36] <gonzo_nb> (not to be confused with the ic7000)
[18:37] <gonzo_nb> an ar5000 may be £500, an icr7000, £250?
[18:37] <arjunnaha> I'm assuming to stay well clear of this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BaoFeng-GT-3-MK-II-2m-70cm-VHF-UHF-Two-way-Radio-Walkie-Talkie-Boost-Antenna-/400804953450?hash=item5d51d63d6a:g:zXIAAOxyiklTkZDE
[18:38] <gonzo_nb> that will not do ssb. so not much use for hab
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[19:05] <tweetBot> @AmsatUK: UKSEDS Radio Workshop at Cranfield University Bedford Saturday Nov 14 #amsat #hamradio #hamr #ukhas @theRSGByouth https://t.co/P1rGtwB46y
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[19:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB8ELK-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-1
[19:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KJ4TDM-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ4TDM-1
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[19:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N4XWC-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
[19:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03df2ebt_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=df2ebt_chase
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[22:28] <Laurenceb_> hi
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> anyone here familiar with metacity?
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> I've got major issues :-/
[22:34] <adamgreig> the old window manager?
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[22:36] <Laurenceb_> aha ^ fixed it
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[22:45] <Laurenceb__> so, using the test stand data, sim code gives between 122 and 128km apogee with 36km launch altitude
[22:45] <Laurenceb__> depending on the drag model I use
[22:47] <adamgreig> neat
[22:47] <adamgreig> with like 18Ns impulse from the motor?
[22:48] <Laurenceb__> yup
[22:48] <Laurenceb__> well - 27Ns with the modified nozzle in near vacuum
[22:51] <adamgreig> still not an overwhelming quantity of energy is it
[22:52] <Laurenceb__> about 10kJ of kinetic energy
[22:53] <Laurenceb__> a large concrete block being dropped off a tower block
[22:53] <Laurenceb__> so you would be very dead if it hit you
[22:54] <adamgreig> odd
[22:54] <adamgreig> it's like a B or C motor?
[22:55] <Laurenceb__> D
[22:55] <adamgreig> ok
[22:55] <adamgreig> why so much more energy than I expect?
[22:56] <adamgreig> feel like a normal D motor hitting me would be pretty survivable
[22:56] <adamgreig> maybe not pleasant
[22:56] <Laurenceb__> probably as its a black powder motor and there is air drag
[22:56] <adamgreig> mm guess so much is lost to drag
[22:56] <Laurenceb__> this is weird amine/perchlorate stuff
[22:56] <adamgreig> oh huh, ok
[22:56] <Laurenceb__> so very high mass fraction and high ISP
[22:57] <Laurenceb__> and it will be an E motor at altitude
[22:57] <Laurenceb__> the exhaust contains lots of nitrogen
[22:59] <Laurenceb__> the good news is that flying down or sideways it will loose speed quickly
[22:59] <Laurenceb__> so its non hazardous to aircraft flying at normal altitudes
[23:00] <Laurenceb__> also its just paper/phenolic
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[23:02] <Laurenceb__> next test is vacuum chamber ignition - I have to order throat inserts first
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[23:03] Nick change: im_chris_hansen -> Evidlo
[23:12] Action: Laurenceb__ takes a seat over there
[23:18] <SpeedEvil> Protip: Do not google throat inserts.
[23:18] <Laurenceb__> too late, Chris is already here
[23:19] mbales (~mbales@166.170.44.225) left irc: Quit: mbales
[23:23] mbales (~mbales@166.170.44.225) joined #highaltitude.
[23:29] <Laurenceb__> getting hit my the rockoon would be equivalent to a shot from this
[23:29] <Laurenceb__> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.408_Cheyenne_Tactical
[00:00] --- Sun Nov 8 2015