highaltitude.log.20151103

[00:00] <mfa298> BeaverOne: I suspect just finding an equation that looks interesting isn't going to solve your problems, But then I struggled with Control Systems Engineering when it was covered in my degree and that was a long time ago so I'm not going to pretend to be able to help.
[00:01] <Laurenceb_> calling ubuntu/linux gurus
[00:01] <Laurenceb_> I've got a window thats gone fullscreen
[00:01] <Laurenceb_> with the top menu bar hidden on my screen
[00:01] <Laurenceb_> all the icons seem to be misaligned and I cant click them
[00:01] <Laurenceb_> wondered if anyone thinks its recoverable?
[00:02] <mfa298> Laurenceb_: that sounds like you want a specific window manager guru (I might be considered a Linux guru, but I only really work in terminals)
[00:02] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[00:02] <mfa298> my current window manager is Windows 8 :p
[00:02] <Laurenceb_> its some window manager screw up
[00:02] <Laurenceb_> heh
[00:02] <Laurenceb_> I really need to recover my work :-S
[00:04] <mfa298> it may help if you're able to say which window manger you're using (assuming there's someone out there that knows the suitable hot keys for it)
[00:04] <Laurenceb_> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-desktop-74/standalone-gui-application-misaligned-or-shifted-due-to-metacity-4175434900/
[00:04] <Laurenceb_> sounds like my problem
[00:05] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb_: have you written any tutorials involving Optimal Control theory?
[00:05] <Laurenceb_> NO
[00:05] <Laurenceb_> sorry
[00:06] <BeaverOne> oh, was looking to see your implementation of it
[00:07] <Laurenceb_> then read my code
[00:10] <Laurenceb_> shit I'm screwed
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[00:15] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb_: what's wrong?
[00:15] <Laurenceb_> window manager issues in linux :-/
[00:18] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[00:22] <tripleclones> Laurenceb_, can you kill the window?
[00:22] <tripleclones> Crtl+Alt+F4 to go to a console
[00:22] <tripleclones> and kill -9 xxxx?
[00:23] <Laurenceb_> sure but then I'd lose my work
[00:24] <Laurenceb_> managed to fix it with some alt-tab combinations
[00:24] <tripleclones> ok so you want resize the current window?
[00:24] <tripleclones> I assume you're using Unity?
[00:25] <tripleclones> sorry didn't read your last line :)
[00:26] <Laurenceb_> only now when I open the project in freeCAD I have a permanent graphical glitch across the window
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[00:32] <Laurenceb_> I'll imgur
[00:32] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/3i9cxLF.png
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[00:54] <tripleclones> Laurenceb, can you not just click and drag the toolbar back so it snaps inside the frame?
[00:56] <tripleclones> do you use the Draft command bar? if not you can disable by selecting View | Views and unselecting the Draft command bar option
[00:59] <BeaverOne> apparently the Apollo Guidance Computer was one of the first implementations of a Kalman Filter
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[03:24] <DoYouKnow> BeaverOne: I've heard something like that
[03:25] <BeaverOne> DoYouKnow: read it first on here, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8063192
[03:26] <BeaverOne> Primary Guidance, Navigation and Control System (PGNCS) had it, i believe
[03:29] <BeaverOne> mbales: DoYouKnow eroomde Laurenceb http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/a17991/voyager-1-voyager-2-retiring-engineer/
[03:30] <mbales> i saw that, wish i knew some fortran
[03:31] <BeaverOne> rimary Guidance, Navigation and Control System (PGNCS) : "The onboard guidance software used a Kalman filter to merge new data with past position measurements to produce an optimal position estimate for the spacecraft. The key information was a coordinate transformation between the IMU stable member and the two reference coordinate systems, one centered on Earth and one centered on the Moon. In the argot of the Apollo program
[03:31] <BeaverOne> Reference to a Stable Member Matrix")."
[03:31] <BeaverOne> Primary*
[03:34] <DoYouKnow> that sounds like a fun job
[03:34] <DoYouKnow> but I'd be nervous as heck programming the energy polling routines
[03:34] <DoYouKnow> that's the kind of thing that causes a 40 year old piece of machinery to hang
[03:34] <BeaverOne> :(
[03:35] <DoYouKnow> hopefully it'll be ok
[03:35] <DoYouKnow> and they got a good mind to program it
[03:37] <DoYouKnow> they use an IBM 360 package on voyager
[03:37] <DoYouKnow> along with the ground station, afaik, a similar type of package
[03:37] <DoYouKnow> but it's a small form factor version on the spacecraft
[03:37] <DoYouKnow> I found a great list of documents, BeaverOne
[03:37] <DoYouKnow> one sec
[03:38] <DoYouKnow> http://voyager.gsfc.nasa.gov/Library/VOY_library.html
[03:38] <DoYouKnow> that's an entire library on voyager. enjoy
[03:39] <BeaverOne> DoYouKnow: thank you
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[03:40] <DoYouKnow> you can also download the full flight software, MJS77 from one of the magnetometer team websites
[03:40] <DoYouKnow> not sure if they know about that or not
[03:40] <BeaverOne> heh
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[03:44] <DoYouKnow> lol, it seems they removed it
[03:46] <BeaverOne> :(
[03:47] <DoYouKnow> here they put some commands on the spacecraft, for EDR record logging, etc: http://voyager.gsfc.nasa.gov/Library/VOY_Notebook22.pdf
[03:48] <DoYouKnow> they also have the entire navigation program posted online: http://voyager.gsfc.nasa.gov/Library/Voy_Traj_Prog_Doc.pdf
[03:49] <DoYouKnow> Voyager 1 uses PDP11 Fortran
[03:49] <BeaverOne> heh, that's awesome, PDP11
[03:49] <DoYouKnow> BeaverOne: apparently, a lot of the spacecraft uses virtual machine-type-things to execute their code
[03:50] <DoYouKnow> probably on voyager too
[03:50] <DoYouKnow> built-in to the CPU
[03:50] <DoYouKnow> for executing compiled languages at runtime
[03:50] <DoYouKnow> and compiling them
[03:51] <BeaverOne> heh, that's pretty advanced for it's time
[03:51] <DoYouKnow> yeah, I agree
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[03:51] <DoYouKnow> but the IBM mainframes had this kind of thing
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[03:52] <DoYouKnow> not a virtualmachine, but a bytecode CPU
[03:53] <DoYouKnow> New Horizons uses a FRISC cpu for this
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[03:56] <DoYouKnow> there were simpler translations from higher level languages to lower level languages then
[03:56] <DoYouKnow> like FORTRAN->assembly
[04:08] <BeaverOne> mbales: DoYouKnow http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nasa-latest-tests-show-physics-230112770.html
[04:09] <mbales> nice
[04:09] <mbales> really hope that ends up being a thing
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[04:45] <RealBorg> at least science is back to where it belongs: exploring the inexplicable
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[04:47] Nick change: day_ -> day
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[05:12] <Oddstr13> morning
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[05:15] <Oddstr13> anyone know if SSL is still alive?
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[06:42] <SA6BSS> Blafsen: whats the expected batterytime of ssl165 ?
[06:42] <SA6BSS> *1685
[06:46] <Oddstr13> would've been nice with a repeat of the radio & fldigi settings
[06:47] <Oddstr13> I've moved my antenna outside, now hanging from the roof overhang, with a mostly clear view of N-E-S
[06:48] <Oddstr13> it's a wire dipole, tuned roughly for the PMR446 band, but that should be close enough, right?
[06:50] <Oddstr13> should be seeing SSL1685 in about 1h, assuming it's still alive, and the predictions are ok-ish
[06:52] <SA6BSS> yeah, I have turned the yagi east to ne but its out of range for mr
[06:54] <Oddstr13> shouldn't you be pointing it to the west instead? :P
[06:55] <Oddstr13> you should be pointing the yagi more or less straight at Oslo right now, assuming your location on the map and the predictions are correct,
[06:56] <Oddstr13> anyways, I'll go get myself some breakfast
[07:18] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[07:39] <Oddstr13> frequency was about 434.3, right?
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[07:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03sde612_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=sde612_chase
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[08:03] <SA6BSS> 434.295 was latest reported
[08:10] <Oddstr13> SA6BSS: what mode?
[08:10] <Oddstr13> I saw FM mentioned in the backlogs
[08:11] <SA6BSS> dont know, but if it get in range u will hear if its ss or fm
[08:11] <SA6BSS> *ssb
[08:11] <Oddstr13> not seeing anything yet
[08:12] <Oddstr13> it's possible it has drifted too far east for me
[08:12] <Oddstr13> the earlier predictions of where it would travel where a lot better for me, basically said it'd come right over me
[08:14] <SA6BSS> it should be south of u in next 30-45 min
[08:22] <Oddstr13> too bad there arn't really any nodes at all in Norway
[08:23] <Oddstr13> would've been nice with some receivers in the Stavanger & Bergen area
[08:23] <Oddstr13> as that would pick up nodes arriving over the north sea
[08:23] <Oddstr13> sorry, in ukhasnet mode. balloons.
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[08:28] <SA6BSS> la3eq is one that usuly receive if we notify him
[08:29] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[08:34] <Oddstr13> that looks like a really nice location for radio stuff
[08:46] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[09:28] <Oddstr13> SA6BSS: I havn't seen anything yet
[09:29] <Oddstr13> I guess it might be deat, or too far south/east for me to receive it
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[10:10] <jonsowman> ping cm13g09
[10:22] <cm13g09> jonsowman: morning
[10:22] <cm13g09> how can I help?
[10:22] Action: cm13g09 ponders why that didn't highlight....
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[11:02] <UpuWork> noc
[11:03] <fsphil> who's there?
[11:03] <eroomde> he's UDP only
[11:04] <UpuWork> wrong window..
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[11:06] <SA6BSS> Oddstr13: nop, nothing
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[13:08] Nick change: ulfr -> ulfr^
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[13:34] <adamgreig> three stage solid rocket to orbit http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/11/03/hawaiis-first-satellite-launch-set-for-tuesday/
[13:35] <adamgreig> Engineers based the rail launcher on an old system used on the Scout rocket program
[13:35] <adamgreig> paper tape and all that huh eroomde ;)
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[13:35] Nick change: SA6BSS -> SA6BSS-Mike
[13:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LCARS_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LCARS_chase
[13:42] <Laurenceb> oh nice
[13:43] <adamgreig> looks neat though
[13:43] <Laurenceb> its basically my n-prize design with an extra stage swapped for the HAB
[13:43] <adamgreig> spin stabalised
[13:43] <Laurenceb> very cool stuff
[13:43] <adamgreig> but not guided otherwise I think
[13:43] <adamgreig> you just point it right
[13:43] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:43] <Laurenceb> gravity turn and spin up with fins aiui
[13:43] <adamgreig> you'd think for $15m a launch you might squeeze a flight computer in there
[13:43] <adamgreig> guess not
[13:43] <adamgreig> yea, canted fins first stage, cold gas 2nd and 3rd stages to keep it spinning
[13:46] <lz1dev> that rocket can't possibly reach orbit
[13:47] <lz1dev> its tiny
[13:47] <adamgreig> big words
[13:47] <adamgreig> it's solids
[13:47] <adamgreig> don't need plumbing or valves
[13:47] <adamgreig> just a pressure vessel and a lot of high-isp fuel
[13:47] <Laurenceb> I think they have simplified in the article
[13:47] <eroomde> lz1dev: the few occassions we've discussed space things you've usually been a couple of orders of mag miscalibrated on what's possible
[13:47] <Laurenceb> and the cold gas is for tip over
[13:47] <adamgreig> Laurenceb: it would make more sense, right
[13:48] <adamgreig> you don't get into orbit by going in a straight line from the ground aiui
[13:48] <lz1dev> eroomde: probably more :)
[13:48] <Laurenceb> there was a japanese launch in the 70s that took a different approach
[13:48] <lz1dev> i haven't even been closed to a rocket if you don't count fireworks :P
[13:48] <Laurenceb> misaligned yo-yo despin thin then small spin up motor
[13:48] <Laurenceb> so it precessed around the the correct angle for upper stage ignition
[13:48] <adamgreig> yea i remember talking about that here maybe
[13:49] <adamgreig> similar sort of size thing though
[13:49] <Laurenceb> It can also be done with N52 magnets :P
[13:49] <adamgreig> lol
[13:49] <Laurenceb> only a few % mass of magnets on the upper stage
[13:49] <Laurenceb> pyro release them once it precesses to correct attitude
[13:49] <eroomde> 25:1 fuel:structure ratio, assuming like 350s ISP, gets you to orbit single stage
[13:50] <eroomde> hard for a proper rocket doing xcomm sats but it does mean you could get *something* to orbit with a relatively small rocket
[13:50] <Laurenceb> it looked like ~1.2Kg mass from 33km launch in my n-prize sim
[13:51] <Laurenceb> but I could never work out how to stage spin stabilised stuff well
[13:51] <Laurenceb> obviously its doable
[13:51] <eroomde> look at black arrow http://www.geekation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Geekation_All-rockets.jpg
[13:51] <Laurenceb> just mechanically very hard - gofast also seem to have mastered it
[13:51] <eroomde> 2nd row, about 3rd in from the right
[13:51] <eroomde> red nose cone
[13:51] <eroomde> that was a british orbital rocket
[13:51] <eroomde> smaller than the suborbital v2 next to it
[13:52] <Laurenceb> wow
[13:53] <Laurenceb> *You only live twice theme plays*
[13:53] <Laurenceb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Arrow#/media/File:Black_Arrow_2.jpg
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[13:58] <RealBorg> I wonder if at least the us gov has a contingency plan for the case something happends to earth
[13:58] <RealBorg> like some stowaway saturn v ready to launch a generation ship
[13:59] <Laurenceb> an inclination angle of 94.7 degrees to the equator
[13:59] <Laurenceb> hmmm
[13:59] Action: Laurenceb wonders if its really that accurate
[14:03] <eroomde> a 'generation ship'?
[14:03] <eroomde> i suspect they don't have a stowaway saturn V
[14:03] <eroomde> it's quite hard to stow away a saturn V
[14:03] <Laurenceb> RealBorg: ur mum
[14:03] <eroomde> you'd also have to exhume all the very dead people who know how to operate one
[14:04] <Laurenceb> RealBorg: more seriously, what do we do if timecube is right?
[14:04] <Laurenceb> maybe we are educated stupid?
[14:04] <adamgreig> did you see NASA were looking for FORTRAN programmers for voyager? :P
[14:04] <RealBorg> timecube?
[14:05] <Laurenceb> yeah, Dr Gene Ray
[14:05] <RealBorg> eroomde, I think some are still alive
[14:05] <adamgreig> http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/a17991/voyager-1-voyager-2-retiring-engineer/
[14:05] <eroomde> RealBorg: sure
[14:05] <eroomde> some will still be around
[14:05] <eroomde> just very old
[14:05] <RealBorg> and the government has hidden bigger things than a saturn v
[14:05] <adamgreig> you just hide it on that soundstage on mars they used for the apollo landings right
[14:06] <day> adamgreig: not just any fortran. its pre fortran 77 apparently
[14:06] <adamgreig> christ
[14:06] <Laurenceb> LINUX CUBE IS TRUTH, SINGLE DESKTOP ENVIRONMENTS ARE A LIE
[14:06] <adamgreig> I dread to think
[14:06] <eroomde> maybe hollow out a mountain
[14:07] <Laurenceb> bording, did it this morning for exercise
[14:07] <RealBorg> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greenbrier
[14:07] <day> adamgreig: but who cares. having worked on the fastest and most distant space probe is something!
[14:07] <RealBorg> they did that
[14:08] <RealBorg> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyenne_Mountain_Complex
[14:08] <eroomde> i do not dispute that there exist larger underground spaces than the volume of a staurn V
[14:09] <RealBorg> hollow out a mountain)
[14:09] <eroomde> but that's rather different to 'hiding' (why?) a servicable saturn V
[14:10] <RealBorg> there wouln't be enough "life boats" for everyone - so secrecy is key
[14:11] <eroomde> how obvious
[14:11] <eroomde> should hacve thought, sorry
[14:11] <eroomde> you might be revealing the secret right now
[14:12] <RealBorg> they would probably only care if someone revealed the actual location
[14:13] <eroomde> you might spot it flying over with your magneto hydrodynamic high altitude ballon thruster
[14:15] <RealBorg> doubtful, it would probably look like just another icbm launch complex
[14:15] <eroomde> have you got any hardware built for that yet?
[14:16] <RealBorg> I'm working on turning that into a rc plane
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[14:18] <eroomde> have you got any hardware built for that (rc plane/thruster) yet?
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[14:18] <Laurenceb> http://science.slashdot.org/story/15/11/03/0354218/nasa-eagleworks-has-tested-an-upgraded-em-drive
[14:19] <RealBorg> eroomde, many prototypes combining EHD thrust with an airfoil
[14:20] <eroomde> awesome. pics?
[14:21] Action: SpeedEvil ponders an EHD balloo thruster, and starts singing songs from Jungle Book.
[14:25] <Laurenceb> http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/advprop.htm
[14:26] <Laurenceb> some of this is perhaps arguably not completely bonkers
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[14:27] <Laurenceb> well - some of the things there might have some useful uses
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> It's like hunting for scented flowers growing in a slaughterhouse.
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[14:41] <adamgreig> more pics of the hawaii rocket http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/11/03/meet-the-the-super-strypi-launch-vehicle/
[14:41] <adamgreig> love how much bigger the first stage is than 2nd or 3rd
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[15:04] <cebrax> Anyone used Si4455 chip? I have ordered 2 samples and I know nothing about antenna design nor matching..
[15:05] <eroomde> yes, though those two questions are not especially related
[15:05] <SpeedEvil> Have you looked at the datasheet or application notes - do they contain a schematic and layout?
[15:06] <adamgreig> SI have really extensive application notes about design of the matching circuit for that chip
[15:06] <adamgreig> and you have to get it reasonably correct and it depends on what mode you use the onboard PA in
[15:08] <adamgreig> http://www.silabs.com/support/pages/document-library.aspx?p=Wireless%20-%20Proprietary&f=EZRadio&pn=Si4455
[15:08] <adamgreig> see AN686 for antennas, AN693 for PA matching
[15:08] <chris_99> not exactly the same chip, but i just picked up http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pcs-lot-Upgrade-version-RF4463F30-1W-FSK-GFSK-Si4463-small-size-3km-high-power-long-range/2008837242.html to play with
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[15:24] <Laurenceb> http://globeintransit.blogspot.co.uk/
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[16:02] <Laurenceb> anyone here ever used TortoiseHg?
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[16:05] <lz1dev> git is love, git is life
[16:05] <Laurenceb> heh work project
[16:06] <Laurenceb> trying to find a way to view file history
[16:06] <Laurenceb> think I got it now, nvm
[16:08] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
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[16:18] <Oddstr13> Laurenceb: TortoiseHg FTW!
[16:22] <Laurenceb> hmm
[16:23] <Laurenceb> my rocket motor test stand is too noisy :-/
[16:23] <Laurenceb> getting ~60µV RMS out of an AD623
[16:23] <Laurenceb> sounds wrong?
[16:23] <Laurenceb> (noise)
[16:28] <eroomde> depends on all sorts of things really - supply noise etc
[16:28] <chris_99> what ADC are you using too out of interest?
[16:29] <eroomde> but assuming that's the output going into a 3.3V referenced adc, that's still only like 1LSB noise on a 16 bit adc
[16:29] <eroomde> which isn't disastrous
[16:30] <Laurenceb> sorry
[16:30] <Laurenceb> thats input referred noise
[16:30] <Laurenceb> its like a few hundred LSB
[16:30] <Laurenceb> and over an order of magnitude more than I expect
[16:30] <Laurenceb> going to check the supply rails
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[16:34] <Laurenceb> ooh shit
[16:34] <Laurenceb> massive interference
[16:34] <Laurenceb> I think I have a shorted cable somewhere :-/
[16:35] <Laurenceb> this is too complex for its own good
[16:35] <Laurenceb> USB traffic getting into the amplifier
[16:51] <Laurenceb> hmm no it isnt
[16:51] <Laurenceb> ~120kHz inst amp oscillation
[16:51] <Laurenceb> but not rail to rail, and its still amplifying the signal
[16:53] <adamgreig> feedback bit buggered?
[16:57] <Laurenceb> yes
[16:57] <Laurenceb> actually looks like 78khz
[16:57] <Laurenceb> hmm
[16:57] <Laurenceb> its cable config dependent
[16:57] <Laurenceb> wonderul
[16:58] <Laurenceb> I've never come across this one before
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[17:48] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:49] <Oddstr13> anyone tried the
[17:49] <Oddstr13> MAX31723
[17:50] <Laurenceb> oh shit I think I know the issue
[17:50] <Laurenceb> too much cable capacitance on the output
[17:50] <Laurenceb> + a little crosstalk
[17:51] <Oddstr13> 1.7-3.7V, SPI, -55 to 125C, 9-12bit temperature sensor
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[18:12] <Laurenceb> woops
[18:12] <Laurenceb> fixed it
[18:12] <Laurenceb> only its too good
[18:12] <Laurenceb> <1lsb RMS noise
[18:14] <Laurenceb> crazy - much less than 1 gram sensitivity at 100ksps
[18:14] <Laurenceb> I should have played with one of these ages ago
[18:19] <adamgreig> what strain gauge did you use in the end?
[18:20] <Laurenceb> http://www.vishaypg.com/docs/12003/1006.pdf
[18:20] <Laurenceb> I'm going to have to add some noise if I want to oversample
[18:22] <chris_99> what ADC was that with?
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[18:24] <Laurenceb> stm32F3 built in one
[18:25] <adamgreig> the f3 analogue parts are surprisingly nice eh
[18:25] <Laurenceb> yes, very very nice
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[18:27] <Laurenceb> there is a weird delayed response to the output tho
[18:27] <Laurenceb> I suspect its the sensor itself
[18:29] <Laurenceb> need to see how it scales with mass
[18:30] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/9ZH5Kyq.png
[18:31] <Laurenceb> ignore labels
[18:31] <Laurenceb> apart from time
[18:31] <Laurenceb> thats a mass being removed
[18:31] <adamgreig> ah yes looks like about a 3.5 parts per gallon mass ;)
[18:31] <adamgreig> neat though
[18:32] <adamgreig> how big a mass? still seems a bit noisy
[18:32] <adamgreig> can't really tell what FS is here
[18:34] <Laurenceb> FS is ~50N
[18:34] <Laurenceb> thats a few tens of grams
[18:34] <adamgreig> so your accuracy is like around 1g for about 0-5kg?
[18:35] <Laurenceb> theres lots of silicone rubber encapsulant, wondering if its related to that
[18:35] <Laurenceb> yes
[18:35] <adamgreig> competitive with kitchen scales then :P
[18:35] <Laurenceb> but at 100ksps
[18:35] <adamgreig> probably better frequency performance
[18:35] <adamgreig> indeed
[18:35] <Laurenceb> its subsampled there to speed up gnuplot
[18:35] <adamgreig> feel like 1ksps is probably fine
[18:35] <adamgreig> well
[18:35] <adamgreig> depends what you're looking for?
[18:36] <Laurenceb> just overall impulse and approx shape
[18:36] <adamgreig> cool though
[18:36] <Laurenceb> thats why I'm a little worried about overshoot
[18:36] <adamgreig> how are you dumping the ADC samples off the stm32? serial?
[18:36] <Laurenceb> µSD
[18:36] <adamgreig> ok
[18:36] <Laurenceb> then usb mass storage class
[18:36] <Laurenceb> FLAC file on the card
[18:36] <adamgreig> why FLAC?
[18:37] <Laurenceb> cuz I had the code for it
[18:37] <adamgreig> lol fe
[18:37] <Laurenceb> so c&p
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[18:57] <Laurenceb> ok mounted in alu frame
[18:58] <Laurenceb> 75% response is ~instantaneous
[18:58] <Laurenceb> but remaining 25% takes ~900ms
[18:58] <adamgreig> is it symmetric with loading?
[18:59] <adamgreig> cuz that'l knacker your frequency performance
[18:59] <Laurenceb> I'm going to try different test masses
[18:59] <Laurenceb> yeah
[19:03] <Laurenceb> hmf this makes no sense
[19:03] <Laurenceb> its consistent with mass
[19:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DL1NBR-11 after 0314 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL1NBR-11
[19:04] <Laurenceb> always around 30% of the height and ~900ms decay time
[19:04] <Laurenceb> this makes it useless for test stands :-/
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[19:14] <Laurenceb> hmm
[19:14] <Laurenceb> captured it on the scope too
[19:14] <Laurenceb> so that rules out everything apart from my inst amp
[19:15] <Laurenceb> cant see how that would give the behaviour I see
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[19:27] <Laurenceb> hmf
[19:28] <Laurenceb> need to talk to Leo, he has experience with these things
[19:29] <chris_99> can you see the loadcell's output on the scope too? before it hits the amp
[19:29] <Laurenceb> yeah I'll try that next
[19:29] <Laurenceb> going to be hard but maybe doable
[19:29] <chris_99> mmm
[19:31] <eroomde> evening
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[19:34] <Laurenceb> here is where I try to use a techtronics scope properly
[19:36] <eroomde> tektronix
[19:36] <eroomde> show some respect
[19:36] <chris_99> heh
[19:36] <eroomde> what's the issue?
[19:37] <Laurenceb> I need to display the "Math" trace
[19:37] <eroomde> the what now
[19:37] <Laurenceb> for CH1-CH2
[19:37] <Laurenceb> I can set it up, but theres nothing new on the screen
[19:38] <Laurenceb> maybe some other button I press to display?
[19:38] <eroomde> is that ch1-ch2 +sense and -sense?
[19:38] <Laurenceb> yes
[19:39] <eroomde> if your psu is isolated you could just connect +/- sense to one scope channel
[19:39] <eroomde> s/psu/excitation-supply
[19:39] <Laurenceb> oh ok
[19:39] <Laurenceb> didnt realise it has isolated gnd
[19:39] <eroomde> what is the issue you're seeing with the circuit?
[19:39] <eroomde> the scope doesn't
[19:39] <Laurenceb> oh i get it nvm
[19:39] <eroomde> but the psu providing the excitation probably is if it's a lab psu
[19:40] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/9ZH5Kyq.png
[19:40] <Laurenceb> 75% response is ~instantaneous
[19:40] <Laurenceb> but remaining 25% takes ~900ms
[19:40] <eroomde> that's... odd
[19:40] <eroomde> circuit diagram?
[19:40] <Laurenceb> just stnadard inst amp
[19:41] <Laurenceb> arg I cant spell
[19:41] <Laurenceb> AD623 on 3.3v into F3 adc
[19:41] <Laurenceb> I see same shape capturing amp output
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[19:41] <eroomde> which load cell?
[19:41] <eroomde> how long is the cable?
[19:42] <eroomde> what's providing excitation?
[19:42] <Laurenceb> cable is ~30cm
[19:42] <Laurenceb> 3.3v excitation
[19:42] <Laurenceb> http://www.vishaypg.com/docs/12003/1006.pdf
[19:44] <eroomde> what is PPG?
[19:44] <Laurenceb> ignore the labels
[19:46] <eroomde> definitely don't have a circuit diagram to hand?
[19:47] <Laurenceb> just a sec, running more tests
[19:47] <eroomde> kk
[19:47] <eroomde> bon chance
[19:48] <Laurenceb> hmm not enough bits to capture
[19:48] <Laurenceb> how annoying
[19:49] <eroomde> maybe bump the excitation voltage
[19:49] <eroomde> 15V maybe
[19:50] <Laurenceb> yeah
[19:50] <Laurenceb> this is going to get messy
[19:50] <eroomde> i presume it's just 2mV/V so that hould give you about 8 divisions assuming your scope goes to 2mv div
[19:50] <Laurenceb> new breakout board time
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[19:52] <Laurenceb> this will take a while to solder up
[19:52] <eroomde> that sounds really suspicious
[19:52] <eroomde> if it's just a dumb bridge
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[19:56] <Laurenceb> shit
[19:56] <Laurenceb> PSU noise
[19:58] <Laurenceb> I'll try Math again
[19:59] <eroomde> PSUs should be noisy - is it a lab one?
[19:59] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:01] <Laurenceb> hmm
[20:01] <Laurenceb> not enough scope bits
[20:01] <Laurenceb> I'm screwed :-/
[20:02] <Laurenceb> outof ideas
[20:03] <Laurenceb> ok so I have a 3.3v version of this
[20:03] <Laurenceb> http://www.simplecircuitdiagram.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Precision-Strain-Gage-Amplifier.gif
[20:03] <Laurenceb> with AD623
[20:03] <Laurenceb> and the 2.5V is from a regulator
[20:03] <eroomde> ref pin is doing what?
[20:03] <Laurenceb> 3.3v -> 2.5V reg
[20:03] <eroomde> right
[20:03] <Laurenceb> I guess I'll scope it
[20:04] <Laurenceb> there is a 1µF cap between the input lines
[20:04] <eroomde> cable shield is tied to gnd at the int amp end?
[20:04] <Laurenceb> yes
[20:04] <Laurenceb> then there is a signal cable on the output
[20:04] <Laurenceb> that was causing oscillation
[20:04] <Laurenceb> so I added a 680ohm resistor
[20:05] <Laurenceb> gain resistor is 220ohms, giving 700 times or so gain
[20:06] <eroomde> how long was the signal cable?
[20:06] <eroomde> on the output
[20:06] <Laurenceb> 20cm
[20:07] <eroomde> that was causing instability!
[20:07] <eroomde> odd
[20:07] <Laurenceb> I think there is some ESD protection inside the datalogger unit
[20:07] <Laurenceb> hmm I'll power up the amp board off lab PSU
[20:08] <eroomde> so if you scope the output of the amp without any output cable, do you get anything?
[20:08] <Laurenceb> thats what I'll try next
[20:09] <eroomde> i'd be suspicious of 20cm of cable causing problems on a slow int amp
[20:09] <eroomde> but still, worth removing everything downstream
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[20:17] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03AIRCOR-51 after 0321 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AIRCOR-51
[20:17] <Laurenceb> got it
[20:17] <Laurenceb> yeah its still there
[20:18] <Laurenceb> ~900ms on the scope
[20:18] <Laurenceb> so it can only be the sensor or the amp
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[20:21] <Laurenceb> this is bizarre
[20:28] <Laurenceb> could it be the sensor?
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[20:29] Nick change: MoALTz_ -> MoALTz
[20:30] <Liam__> where was AIRCOR-51 launched from?
[20:31] <Laurenceb> it looks very much like the relaxation curve of someones arm
[20:32] <Laurenceb> I suspect it could be from the sensor
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[20:34] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[22:48] <Laurenceb_> think I might have solved my amplifier issues
[22:49] <Laurenceb_> looks like the REF vreg is oscillating
[22:49] <Laurenceb_> will have to fix it tomorrow with better scope :-/
[22:51] <adamgreig> gross
[22:52] <adamgreig> I used a small opamp buffer and a pair of very precise resistors dividing my excitation voltage for reference
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> analogue: its harder than it looks
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> to be fair most of my issues stem from trying to interface with an off the shelf datalogger
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[00:00] --- Wed Nov 4 2015