highaltitude.log.20151030

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[02:47] <Oddstr13> are there any standard SPI pinouts / connectors?
[02:50] <SpeedEvil> Not really.
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[03:07] <Oddstr13> I guess the arduino ICSP header is as close as you get to any standard
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[03:29] <mbales_> ahoy hoy
[03:37] <BeaverOne> SpeedEvil: ordered a FrSky Delta 8
[03:38] <BeaverOne> mbales_: you considering doing a paid promotion on social media for your kickstarter?
[03:38] <mbales_> already have
[03:38] <mbales_> boosted a couple of posts on facebook aimed at HAMs
[03:39] <mbales_> also have some google adwords going
[03:40] <BeaverOne> ah
[03:41] <mbales_> but please keep the ideas coming, im about out
[03:41] <mbales_> i thought a hackaday mention would cinch it but no luck
[03:45] <BeaverOne> mbales_: adafruit is big
[03:45] <BeaverOne> real big
[03:45] <BeaverOne> they'd probably even be interested in selling your prodcut
[03:46] <mbales_> another similar company expressed interest but i never heard back
[03:46] <mbales_> they tend to not post about kickstarters
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[03:49] <mbales_> only stuff in production
[03:49] <Oddstr13> got a link?
[03:50] <mbales_> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1250163085/tracksoar-aprs
[03:51] <Oddstr13> not a ham (yet anyway), so APRS is a no-go
[03:52] <mbales_> yeah, thats part of the issue
[03:52] <BeaverOne> Oddstr13: hamexam.com
[03:52] <BeaverOne> they got flash cards
[03:52] <mbales_> ham is very easy to do
[03:53] <mbales_> and definitely worth the time / effort i think
[03:53] <mbales_> especially for ballooning (where APRS is legal)
[03:54] <Oddstr13> I'll stick to ISM & license free stuff for now I think
[03:54] <mbales_> fair enough
[03:55] <mbales_> could always put an 900mhz or 434 mhz transmitter on my board
[03:58] <mbales_> but anyways thats teh project
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[04:30] Nick change: day_ -> day
[04:39] <mbales_> this is not looking like the best weekend to launch in southern california
[04:50] <BeaverOne> mbales_: did i tell you about PPM SUM / CPPM (really ccpm)
[04:50] <mbales_> i reclal you mentioning it but cant bring up the details
[04:52] <BeaverOne> mbales_: well most RC Receivers output individual channels as PWM, but that could cause a wiring mess if you're adding a flight controller
[04:53] <mbales_> right
[04:53] <BeaverOne> some RC Recievers have multiplexed sum encoding of the PWM channels into a single PPM
[04:53] <mbales_> ah
[04:53] <BeaverOne> some need a PPM SUM Encoder
[04:53] <mbales_> very interesting
[04:54] <BeaverOne> many of the ones with builtin PPM SUM have it called cppm ("combined ppm"), but it's supposedly actually to be more accurate ccpm ("Cyclic/collective pitch mixing")
[04:55] <BeaverOne> i found a PulsePosition Library for the Teensy MCU i'm using, so it shouldn't be too horrible to get it working, ... flight controller to receiver
[04:56] <mbales_> and teh other way?
[04:57] <BeaverOne> oh, read and write should work
[04:58] <mbales_> nice
[04:58] <BeaverOne> but i don't know how telemetry would work really
[04:58] <BeaverOne> no idea yet
[05:00] <mbales_> transmitting telemetry to the grounf you mean?
[05:01] <BeaverOne> yeah, wasn't sure if that's part of what you meant
[05:01] <mbales_> haha, well im asking now
[05:01] <BeaverOne> basically i can send pulse widths to specific channels
[05:02] <mbales_> interesting
[05:02] <BeaverOne> i'll have to figure out what stick movements coorespond to what values to control the Servos from the flight controller
[05:02] <BeaverOne> but telemetry, no clue how that's supposed to work
[05:03] <BeaverOne> i don't have a need for it though
[05:03] <mbales_> and you want to do that over the same 2.4ghz link with teh controller?
[05:03] <BeaverOne> heh, not me particularly
[05:03] <mbales_> ah i see
[05:04] <BeaverOne> i like the RX/TX setup for two reasons, the first is to practice/study the flight characterstics/make sure it doesn't crash
[05:04] <mbales_> haha, solid reasoning
[05:04] <BeaverOne> and to use the RX like a hub for the Servos, and encoding
[05:05] <BeaverOne> the channels are pinned like a breadboard for +/- power
[05:05] <mbales_> right
[05:05] <BeaverOne> im thinking this is how a lot of products out there do it already, coincidentally
[05:05] <mbales_> yeah that is generally how they set them up
[05:06] <mbales_> makes things easy
[05:06] <BeaverOne> it's just really interesting to begin understanding
[05:08] <mbales_> definitely
[05:08] <mbales_> im amazed with how deep youve dived into this
[05:11] <mbales_> i gave up much ealier on and just bought an ardupilot
[05:12] <BeaverOne> heh
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[05:18] <BeaverOne> just glad for a community who's passionate
[05:18] <mbales_> oh yeah, from what ive seen theres a fair amount of that
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[05:25] <BeaverOne> mbales_: http://www.reallycooltoys.com/products-para-rtf-fox15.html
[05:27] <mbales_> $900!
[05:27] <mbales_> thats bananas
[05:28] <BeaverOne> yah
[05:28] <mbales_> you can get the sail fo $20
[05:28] <mbales_> servo is $15
[05:28] <mbales_> esc and motor around $60
[05:28] <BeaverOne> they're selling the 10kg/cm torque servos for 41 bux a piece, heh
[05:29] <mbales_> well that is a hell of a servo
[05:29] <BeaverOne> also the parafoil for about 450
[05:29] <BeaverOne> mbales_: it's using two 10kg/cm servos
[05:29] <mbales_> those seem awfully big
[05:29] <BeaverOne> heh
[05:29] <BeaverOne> it's got a 3meter wingspan
[05:30] <mbales_> ive got a pair of thess
[05:30] <mbales_> hese
[05:30] <BeaverOne> parafoils or servos?
[05:30] <mbales_> parafoil
[05:30] <mbales_> http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__14284__HobbyKing_Paraglider_Parafoil_2_15m.html
[05:30] <mbales_> sorry forgot the link
[05:31] <mbales_> and i just used a standard hobby servo, nothing fancy
[05:32] <BeaverOne> hmm, that's about 7 feet wingspan?
[05:32] <SIbot> In real units: 7 ft = 2.13 m
[05:32] <mbales_> thatd be your anser
[05:32] <mbales_> answer
[05:32] <BeaverOne> heh
[05:32] <BeaverOne> wonder why the crazy price difference
[05:32] <mbales_> you got me
[05:33] <BeaverOne> hmm, they have a promotional sale it seems suddenly, http://www.reallycooltoys.com/products-para-wing-oxy15.html
[05:33] <BeaverOne> $300
[05:33] <mbales_> haha
[05:33] <mbales_> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15597__RC_Para_Glider_ARF_.html
[05:33] <mbales_> heres a tiny one
[05:35] <BeaverOne> the problem is Opale is considered top of the line for parafoils
[05:35] <mbales_> http://www.paralightaviation.com/RC-PARAGLIDER-PARALIGHT-ELECTRIC.html
[05:35] <BeaverOne> quite expensive
[05:36] <mbales_> $330 for the whole kit, wasnt the one you linked 900?
[05:36] <BeaverOne> yah, heh
[05:36] <BeaverOne> can't even fly it still
[05:36] <BeaverOne> no receiver or transmitter
[05:37] <mbales_> ah
[05:37] <mbales_> yes thats a problem
[05:37] <BeaverOne> something like 1200-1500 to actually fly it
[05:37] <mbales_> i htink you can get away with under 1000
[05:38] <mbales_> oh but you want cppm
[05:38] <mbales_> that likely ocmplicates it a bit
[05:38] <BeaverOne> this is going to be a good bit of money going up in the air when it's all said in done
[05:38] <mbales_> indeed
[05:38] <mbales_> the good news is most of it can be slavaged if it crashes
[05:39] <BeaverOne> heh
[05:39] <mbales_> just prepare to undo a lot of tangles with the rigging
[05:39] <BeaverOne> ah
[05:40] <BeaverOne> it'd be somethin else to do RX/TX over aprs for RC if possible
[05:40] <mbales_> the electronics tend to do pretty well in crashes, and youre not likely to have terrible crashes considering youre flying a parachute
[05:40] <BeaverOne> to assist
[05:40] <mbales_> APRS tends to be one way
[05:40] <BeaverOne> oh
[05:41] <mbales_> you can get modules to transcieve though, nothing stopping you, just not terribly common
[05:44] <mbales_> id stop by your locla RC club. they tend to have equipment to loan or sell for cheap
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[05:57] <BeaverOne> http://www.byonics.com/microtrak/mt-tt4.php
[05:58] <mbales_> what about it?
[05:58] <BeaverOne> just studying it
[05:58] <mbales_> ah
[06:02] <mbales_> he definitely does some nice work
[06:02] <mbales_> but like a lot of hams hes stuck in the 80s
[06:21] <BeaverOne> with a transceiver would it be able to receive at high altitude though?
[06:23] <mbales_> certainly
[06:24] <mbales_> line of sight radio can go very far
[06:24] <mbales_> even at low power
[06:24] <mbales_> ask the UK guys, they transmit at 10mw
[06:24] <mbales_> mW
[06:25] <mbales_> radiometrix sells a 2 meter transceiver in a fairly small package
[06:26] <BeaverOne> but like 30 baud max?
[06:26] <mbales_> https://hamgear.wordpress.com/2015/02/03/make-your-own-transceiver-with-a-dorji-dra818u-or-dra818v/
[06:27] <mbales_> they have a 2 meter version as well
[06:27] <mbales_> APRS is sending at 1200 - 2400 baud
[06:27] <BeaverOne> hmm, that's not bad at all
[06:27] <mbales_> they sell for about $20
[06:27] <BeaverOne> heh, that link is awesome right there
[06:28] <mbales_> you could likely go faster too
[06:30] <mbales_> ive not played with those modules but its on my to do list
[06:36] <BeaverOne> heh
[06:36] <BeaverOne> i just ran into your joint announcement with the ham shield
[06:36] <mbales_> haha
[06:37] <mbales_> im everywhere these days
[06:37] <mbales_> in fact last i checked tracksoar was on the first page of google results for APRS tracker
[06:38] <mbales_> nope, back to the second page
[06:39] <mbales_> its looking like the kickstarter isnt going to go so im preparing for plan b
[06:40] <BeaverOne> what about adding more granual tiers?
[06:40] <BeaverOne> grainual
[06:41] <BeaverOne> fill in the gaps
[06:42] <mbales_> i actually had that in the beggining and got some feedback about it being too complicated
[06:42] <BeaverOne> oh
[06:43] <mbales_> the other issue is a kit doesnt save a whole lot of money, and most people dont have access to surface mount soldering equipment
[06:43] <Chetic> my pi in the sky gps isn't getting a signal :(
[06:44] <mbales_> left it out with a clear sky for a while?
[06:44] <Chetic> well I can't control the clouds but yeah
[06:44] <Chetic> 15 minutes in a really open space
[06:44] <mbales_> how long?
[06:44] <Chetic> but hours outside my apartment window
[06:44] <Chetic> which is still a pretty good view
[06:44] <mbales_> hmmm
[06:45] <mbales_> do you get any data out of the GPS?
[06:45] <Chetic> yes according to the gps.txt log
[06:45] <mbales_> what do you get?
[06:45] <Chetic> $GNRMC,,V,,,,,,,,,,N*4D
[06:45] <Chetic> $GNGGA,,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*56
[06:45] <Chetic> over and over
[06:45] <mbales_> ok, well thats a good start
[06:45] <mbales_> its talking atleast
[06:45] <Chetic> I dunno
[06:46] <mbales_> what antenna are you using?
[06:46] <Chetic> the one that comes with the pits kit
[06:46] <Chetic> it's enormous
[06:47] <mbales_> ah
[06:47] <mbales_> hows the cable look?
[06:48] <mbales_> beaverone, plan b is to open up my webstore and get 50 preorders
[06:48] <mbales_> which i have if everyone from kickstarter follows
[06:48] <BeaverOne> ah
[06:48] <Chetic> looks good
[06:49] <mbales_> is there anything else in the gps.txt log, in the very beginning the raspi should try to put it into flight mode
[06:49] <mbales_> (not super familiar with PITS it may have an eeprom to store that)
[06:49] <mbales_> and plan c is to just sell them one off for slightly more
[06:49] <Chetic> I don't think that gets logged actually
[06:50] <mbales_> interesting
[06:50] <Chetic> it does so on boot
[06:50] <mbales_> ah
[06:50] <Chetic> but it's the same program afaik so there's no reason the response shouldn't be logged imo
[06:50] <mbales_> this is going to sound odd but it works on my boards when the ublox wont get a fix
[06:50] <Chetic> I guess I need to try a program that uses the gps in normal mode
[06:51] <Chetic> wait what
[06:51] <mbales_> put it on your dashboard and go for a drive
[06:51] <Chetic> worth a try
[06:51] <Chetic> everything physical will have to wait until I get back home from work
[06:51] <Chetic> right now I just have ssh :p
[06:51] <mbales_> ah
[06:52] <mbales_> ive had a ublox take an hour to get a fix before
[06:52] <Chetic> yeah I had similar problems with the last one
[06:52] <mbales_> i think part of my problem is the way i laid out the board but still
[06:54] <BeaverOne> mbales_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvBJ2LHfjRw
[06:54] <BeaverOne> hehe, that's like a different world for me
[06:55] <mbales_> nice!
[06:56] <mbales_> thats a hell of a setup
[06:56] <BeaverOne> hehe
[06:58] <mbales_> what were you thinking for more granular tiers beaverone?
[07:03] <mbales_> well anyways its my bed time
[07:05] <mbales_> good day gentlemen
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[07:15] <Chetic> what frequency does habitat expect me to fill in?
[07:15] <Chetic> I have a pits kit
[07:16] <Chetic> the config file says 434.25, some places just say 434, the mtx2 says 433..
[07:29] <Vaizki_> Test it and find out where it's really at.
[07:30] <Chetic> my receiver isn't that reliable
[07:30] <Chetic> (I'm told)
[07:31] <Vaizki_> mtx2 is programmable so maybe the pits board configures it
[07:32] <Vaizki_> what receiver do you have?
[07:32] <Chetic> that's probably what the frequency parameter in the software is for
[07:32] <Chetic> a cheap rtl sdr
[07:34] <Vaizki_> yea it will be off a bit but you can probably find a known transmitter and calibrate the tuning in sdr# a bit
[07:34] <Vaizki_> Where does the rtl show the signal now?
[07:36] <Chetic> 434.4383
[07:36] <Oddstr13> I tend to calibrate mine against FM transmissions or such
[07:37] <Oddstr13> should bring you within a few hundred Hz
[07:37] <Chetic> I'll just put what's in the configuration
[07:37] <Chetic> it's going to change anyway
[07:38] <Vaizki_> yes and it can drift with temperature changes in flight so people just need to know where to look
[07:38] <Chetic> yeah
[07:39] <Vaizki_> do you run linux or windows btw?
[07:39] <Chetic> windows
[07:40] <Chetic> never got anything working in linux
[07:40] <Chetic> poor support
[07:40] <Vaizki_> ok.. yea it's a bit painful sometimes.
[07:40] <Vaizki_> there is a utility to calibrate RTL sticks off GSM calibration signals
[07:40] <Vaizki_> https://github.com/steve-m/kalibrate-rtl
[07:40] <Chetic> I mean fldigi is a gtk application but it still wouldn't compile for me
[07:40] <Chetic> seems a bit silly
[07:40] <Oddstr13> I should boot into linux. less distractions. /me looks at his games
[07:40] <Chetic> hear hear
[07:41] <Chetic> haha Vaizki_ that is awesome
[07:41] <Vaizki_> well I had little trouble compiling dl-fldigi for mac so can't be that hard for linux? :O
[07:41] <Chetic> maybe not these days, it's been about a year or two since I tried last :p
[07:41] <Oddstr13> depends on the distro I guess
[07:42] <Chetic> it all felt very iffy either way, with binary dependencies iirc
[07:42] <Oddstr13> I havn't really tried manualy compiling it, so..
[07:43] <Oddstr13> PKGBUILDs kinda do that work :P
[07:43] <Chetic> whatever works I say
[07:43] <Vaizki_> hmmh.. well sdr# is very plug and play on windows.. but you should calibrate the rtl stick, use a FM transmission (local radio) if nothing else as Oddstr13 said
[07:43] <Vaizki_> Oddstr13: arch <3
[07:43] <Oddstr13> :3
[07:43] Action: Chetic has a thing for arch as well
[07:44] <Vaizki_> arch is like gentoo except it doesn't feel like it was done like that just to be abrasive
[07:44] <Chetic> I was able to make an rpi boot in ~9 seconds for a different project
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[07:45] <Oddstr13> arch is like Gentoo, except it feels more unfinished I guess
[07:45] <Oddstr13> also, there is the fact that you get most of your packages precompiled :P
[07:45] <Oddstr13> I miss the USE flags sometimes, hehe
[07:45] <Vaizki_> nooooo
[07:46] <Oddstr13> I don't miss compiling boost however.
[07:46] <Vaizki_> I don't miss compiling gcc
[07:47] <Oddstr13> don't remember gcc taking long, but I know boost took hours.
[07:47] <Oddstr13> on my laptop anyways
[07:47] <Vaizki_> anyway, find the ppm error in your rtl and write it on the stick.. it's basically linear error so you only need one offset
[07:47] <Vaizki_> well I never used boost but I know it was a dependency
[07:48] <Oddstr13> now, imagine me installing Gentoo on a Intel MMX CPU...
[07:48] <Vaizki_> haven't used gentoo since 2006 or so
[07:48] <Oddstr13> just for fun ofc
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[07:49] <Oddstr13> I had Gentoo on my Pentium III Coppermine GW untill I moved like 3 years ago
[07:50] <Oddstr13> and I had Gentoo on my laptop untill GNOME3 was forced on me
[07:50] <Vaizki_> I don't do linux on the desktop
[07:50] <Vaizki_> life is too short for that
[07:51] <Vaizki_> for a SDR radio "head" it's ok but I can't take it for day to day work & play
[07:51] <Oddstr13> actually, linux on the desktop is rather nice, unless you are playing a lot of games, or depend on proprietary software of some kind
[07:52] <Oddstr13> gaming is getting better, but my video card isn't too well supported under linux
[07:52] <Vaizki_> whoa there is a kalibrate-rtl for windows too
[07:52] <Vaizki_> http://rtl-sdr.sceners.org/?p=193
[07:53] <Vaizki_> I have to try it on the weekend to see how good it is
[07:53] <Oddstr13> most of the rtl-sdr tools are compiled for windows too I think
[07:56] <Vaizki_> last time I compiled something for windows it was probably with Borland or Watcom C++.. :(
[07:57] <Vaizki_> I have 4 computers with DOS in this room
[07:58] <Oddstr13> last time I compiled something for windows was LuaJIT libraries I think, and the python bindings
[07:59] <Vaizki_> eep gotta run. get those rtls calibrated! :)
[07:59] <Oddstr13> mine is calibrated as well as it can be with the ppm setting :P
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[08:18] <fsphil> what's a few khz here and there
[08:26] <Chetic> where are the log files (other than gps/telemetry) on a pi in the sky?
[08:26] <fsphil> /var/log ?
[08:26] <Chetic> it looks like take_pic hangs for me and I need to investigate
[08:26] <Chetic> not as far as I can see, fsphil
[08:32] <Chetic> ah it all goes to /dev/console which would be the tv in this case :p
[08:37] <Vaizki_> Jartza gave me a ttl-serial to vga converter last saturday, haven't tried it yet but will make a good debug console :)
[08:37] <Vaizki_> he made them from attinys
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[09:01] <Chetic> daveake: my take_pic scripts hang
[09:01] <Chetic> whereas calling the same raspistill line doesn't
[09:02] <Chetic> ps aux | grep take_pic shows it's started both as sudo ./take_pic_0 and sh ./take_pic_0 at about the same time
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[09:12] <Chetic> hmm that worked for take_pic_4 once though.. I suspect a race condition
[09:12] <fsphil> have you two copies running?
[09:14] <Chetic> not of the camera script, which is the one starting both those two
[09:14] <Chetic> but it's not obvious how since the only line in the script that starts it just says "sudo ./take_pic"...
[09:15] <fsphil> sudo may create another process
[09:15] <fsphil> how many raspistill instances are theree?
[09:15] <Chetic> according to pstree... 
[09:15] <Chetic> 7?! lol
[09:16] <fsphil> what does "pidof raspistill" say?
[09:16] <Chetic> I'm only seeing one with ps though
[09:16] <Chetic> just one pid
[09:16] <Chetic> phew
[09:16] <fsphil> that should be fine
[09:16] <Chetic> how come it hangs then
[09:18] <Chetic> raspistill should time out..
[09:18] <fsphil> try a fresh SD card image
[09:19] <fsphil> just to rule out hardware
[09:19] <Chetic> working remotely at the moment so that'll have to wait
[09:19] <Chetic> but I guess that's a good backup plan
[09:24] <Chetic> weird, take_pic_4 seems to always work, but take_pic_0 won't
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[09:28] <fsphil> what's the difference?
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[09:35] <fsphil> ot, but cool: http://hackaday.com/2015/10/29/using-rf-to-see-through-walls/
[09:35] <daveake> chetic run take_pi_n (not 4) manually
[09:35] <daveake> Kill any raspitills or other take_pic's first
[09:37] <Chetic> same behavior
[09:37] <daveake> Good
[09:37] <daveake> I've never seen this behaviour, or heard of it. I suspect a h/w issue - poor power or dodgy SD or camera
[09:37] <daveake> Try changing things
[09:38] <Chetic> oh waittttt
[09:38] <daveake> What step in the batch file does it hang at?
[09:38] <Chetic> the resolution in take_pic_0 is 32x16 haha
[09:38] <daveake> ah your fault then :p
[09:38] <fsphil> perfectly valid ssdv resolution :)
[09:38] <Chetic> partially at least
[09:39] <daveake> except it only works at 320x240 or larger
[09:39] <Chetic> yeah I was just acting against the pi in the sky interface
[09:39] <Chetic> "input resolution" "okie dokie"
[09:39] <daveake> righto I'll add limits
[09:40] <Chetic> I did kind of assume there would be a converter if the camera didn't support it
[09:40] <Chetic> I want to keep my bitrate low to stay safe
[09:40] <daveake> I had this from a customer a while back:
[09:40] <daveake> "SSDV - If I set an image smaller than 320 x 240 - I get no image at all - is this a feature/bug or something I can work around?"
[09:40] <daveake> Didn't say anything about it hanging up
[09:41] <Chetic> well that's what you'd see as a user
[09:41] <Chetic> only the camera script hangs
[09:41] <daveake> Well, it's raspistill's job to do something sensible, but if it doesn't I'll protect it
[09:41] <Chetic> oh good point, it shouldn't hang when there's even a timeout specified
[09:42] <daveake> No, as a user you'd also not get any of the other image sizes either
[09:42] <fsphil> raspistill has many flaws
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[09:43] <Chetic> I figure it's healthy to reason around responsibilities in cases like this
[09:43] <Chetic> not for people but software modules
[09:43] <Chetic> interfaces*
[09:44] <Chetic> instead of just saying raspistill sux I mean
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[09:52] <daveake> righto, I've limited the size down to 320x240, for the next release
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[10:00] <Chetic> I can't find any documentation on the telemetry string btw
[10:00] <Chetic> seems silly having to look at the source code to know what to put into habitat
[10:02] <daveake> You don't
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[10:02] <daveake> Read the "Getting your flight on the map" page
[10:03] <Chetic> roger
[10:04] <daveake> At some point I might add a a program to create the payload doc automatically
[10:05] <eroomde> i think you've reached hab singularity at that point
[10:05] <eroomde> maybe autogen a notam request
[10:05] <daveake> lol
[10:05] <daveake> :)
[10:05] <Chetic> hey I still had to build my antenna :p
[10:05] <daveake> order balloon
[10:06] <eroomde> back in my day (it still is my day) we built it all from transistors
[10:06] <eroomde> we didn't actually
[10:06] <eroomde> tho a completely analogue hab payload would be a fun thing
[10:06] <daveake> what, you didn't build your own transistors?
[10:06] <daveake> Back in my day we had to dig for coal then slaughter some cats
[10:07] <Chetic> why the cats? :|
[10:07] <craag> they had a hard time getting the cat's whisker diodes to pass the Ed Stair Test
[10:09] <Chetic> lol brilliant
[10:09] <Chetic> daveake: the parser configuration I get from habitat doesn't seem to match the one in the guide tha thas speed, heading, satellites, temp...
[10:09] <Chetic> mine ends at altitude
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[10:13] <The> Hallo my friends
[10:13] Nick change: The -> Guest41733
[10:14] <Guest41733> Heerlen i wait for you.
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[10:15] <daveake> Chetic The first genpayload one has speed etc
[10:17] <Chetic> what do you mean by the first one?
[10:18] <daveake> Go to genpayload, type in PI_SKY_PLUS, choose the first one in the list
[10:19] <fsphil> completely analogue payload. just a gps repeater? :)
[10:26] <gonzo_> transponder
[10:27] <gonzo_> that should work, if you could get the link budget
[10:27] <fsphil> wonder if there's enough bandwidth on 2.4ghz
[10:27] <fl_0> mornin
[10:27] <gonzo_> or one relying on you DFingby angle or time?
[10:28] <fsphil> gps signal is about 1mhz, FM modulate that on 2.4ghz. huge antenna on the ground. job done :)
[10:28] <gonzo_> certianly is, but getting enough dlownlink for such a wide bandwidth....
[10:29] <gonzo_> just transpond the lot
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[10:29] <gonzo_> then have an RX converter at the groundsataion right back into a gps rx
[10:29] <fsphil> ah yeah, throw it into a mixer and just shift it up to 2.4ghz. would need a good bandpass filter
[10:30] <Chetic> Can't find anywhere that says which irc channel to request approval of flight documents in
[10:30] <fsphil> #habhub
[10:30] <Chetic> thanks
[10:30] <gonzo_> (I giggled at someone at work, who reconed that our GPS units were faulty, when receiving from the repeating antenna on the roof, as the location didn't change as hye wolked around the factory)
[10:30] <daveake> It's on the genpayload page iirc
[10:30] <eroomde> the pi should automatically log into habhub for you
[10:31] <daveake> and run a bot for 6 months to pretend you're starting from scratch
[10:31] <fsphil> maybe Chetic is a pi
[10:31] <gonzo_> I wonder if the gps filters they use in antennas are narrow enough?
[10:32] <fl_0> is it correct, that the flight from harlem is not in the active flights list?
[10:32] <eroomde> the saws are really pretty narrow
[10:32] <Chetic> beep boop
[10:35] <gonzo_> tecnically very easy then, but I still doubt you would get much range at 10mw tx
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[10:45] <DL9abcd> I dont see $$SSL1685
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[10:56] <Chetic> http://cdn.blocket.com/static/0/images_full/71/7131729744.jpg
[10:57] <Chetic> where does that fit in with the helium cylinder data table at the bottom of this page?: https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
[10:58] <Chetic> 10 liters
[10:59] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: why do you have a repeating antenna on the roof?
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[11:03] <gonzo_> testing gps inside a metal building
[11:03] <gonzo_> taken down after I pointed out that it was (at the time) not legit
[11:04] <gonzo_> though it was sold to them and installed by another co
[11:05] <daveake> gonzo_ I was at a company (Chronos) recently whos eel/install this stuff
[11:05] <daveake> They had some conversations with ofcom about just that subject :)
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[11:06] <gonzo_> yep, have seen some of their email posts.
[11:07] <gonzo_> the licence looks to be more of a reg system, so that they can check installs if there is a qrm issue in an area
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[11:09] <gonzo_> I've made similar, with an amplified patch ant, and a passive patch on the enmd of the cable to re-radiate
[11:09] <daveake> Yeah you can get just that on ebay for about £10
[11:10] <daveake> Handy if you're in a GPS-deaf office too far from a window
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[11:11] <gonzo_> mine was to get a lock through metalic flashed windows
[11:12] <gonzo_> made redundant after I got some of upu's gps modules that will get lock inside the building on a microscopic antenna
[11:13] <daveake> If you are in a deaf office, and have one of these, it makes it really easy to test your tracker's reaction to losing GPS lock :)
[11:13] <daveake> though possibly a metal mug would also work :)
[11:15] <fl_0> someone online from the heerlen team?
[11:15] <gonzo_> if you get the coupling between the rx and re-radiate ant, that could test the loss, in the whole office!
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[11:46] <Chetic> anybody know the name of the guy in Sweden with an antenna?
[11:46] <Chetic> a big ol' antenna
[11:46] <Chetic> I forget what you call it
[11:46] <Chetic> I want to call it a tracker, since it's the one doing the tracking
[11:47] <Chetic> but that seems to be what you call the payload software
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[11:48] <eroomde> antenna-man?
[11:48] <eroomde> maybe that's the next marvel film
[11:49] <jonsowman> doubt it'd be well received :>
[11:49] <daveake> ho ho :)
[11:50] <daveake> Ant-Man
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[12:00] <Chetic> ground station?
[12:00] <Chetic> how is a tracker not the thing that tracks habs?
[12:02] <eroomde> trackerist maybe
[12:02] <eroomde> tracksuit if you're at work
[12:02] <eroomde> i don't know, but we should discuss this at length because it's important
[12:02] <Chetic> good, good
[12:03] Action: Chetic schedules a meeting
[12:03] <SA6BSS> Chetic: got I big o´l antenna and live in sweden :)
[12:03] <Chetic> there you are!
[12:03] <SA6BSS> :)
[12:03] <SA6BSS> tjena
[12:03] <Chetic> tja
[12:03] <Chetic> will you be able to track me tomorrow around noon?
[12:03] <SA6BSS> slut på lunchrast, måste upp om en minut
[12:03] <Chetic> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=b3ab7026278f5085184989619989e22ac9790424
[12:04] <Chetic> we can talk when you have time :)
[12:04] <SA6BSS> I´m working 14 lokal
[12:04] <Chetic> saturday?
[12:04] <SA6BSS> unfortenatly yes
[12:04] <daveake> take a long pole
[12:04] <Chetic> from 14 or until 14?
[12:05] <SA6BSS> sm0ulc is in Gävle today and over the weekend
[12:05] <SA6BSS> and he got some nice antenna at his fathers house
[12:05] <Chetic> SM0ULC-Reb: ping ping ping
[12:05] <Chetic> thank you for the tip :)
[12:06] <SA6BSS> I point my antenna nort before work and remote in
[12:06] <SA6BSS> freq?
[12:06] <Chetic> 434.45 mhz
[12:06] <SA6BSS> tnx
[12:06] <Chetic> you're too kind!
[12:07] <Chetic> thanks man
[12:07] <SA6BSS> I send a SMS to David sm0(3)ulc
[12:08] <SA6BSS> bbl
[12:13] <Chetic> daveake: what's the reason for the huge gps antenna?
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[12:13] <daveake> ping upuwork ^
[12:14] <Chetic> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/image/cache/data/IMG_1765-500x500.JPG
[12:14] <Chetic> that's what I had last time and it seemed fine to me :)
[12:14] <eroomde> that's not huge
[12:14] <Chetic> and it's not what I got with the pi in the sky kit either
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[12:18] <DutchMillbt> blafsen in the house?
[12:22] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/RnTQ5RQ.png
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[13:02] <Chetic> daveake: I've had my hab on all day with no gps signal
[13:02] <Chetic> the antenna is outside my window with a pretty good view (my cellphone easily gets a signal with worse reception)
[13:03] <Chetic> so um.. should I be worried?
[13:03] <daveake> Has it ever got a lock before ?
[13:03] <Chetic> no
[13:03] <daveake> and you're flying tomorrow ??
[13:03] <Chetic> lol I hope so
[13:03] <Chetic> take my trust in your product as a compliment
[13:03] <Chetic> :p
[13:03] <daveake> Kill the tracker program, start it manually, and tell me what model Pi it thinks it is
[13:04] <daveake> It's one of the first things it printfs
[13:04] <Chetic> RPi Hardware : BCM2708
[13:04] <Chetic> RPi Revision : 0012
[13:04] <Chetic> RPi Model A+ or B+
[13:04] <Chetic> PITS+ Board
[13:04] <daveake> ok fine
[13:05] <daveake> Sometimes there are new Pi revisions but it's not that
[13:07] <daveake> Switch on GPS logging and tail the resulting gps.txt file
[13:07] <Chetic> it just repeats the same two sentences with no satellite data
[13:07] <BeaverOne> http://i.imgur.com/yPf4vcB.png -- is the red highlighted area where the Antenna would be attached?
[13:07] <Chetic> not even time
[13:08] <daveake> Fine, s/w all OK then
[13:08] <daveake> Check the GPS aerial is in the GPS socket
[13:08] <Chetic> GGA and RMC
[13:08] <Chetic> it is
[13:08] <daveake> (nobody laugh we've had that one)
[13:08] <eroomde> BeaverOne: no
[13:08] <Chetic> we're only humans :p
[13:08] <eroomde> nothing in that picture is attached to an antenna
[13:08] <fsphil> BeaverOne: that's not a radio
[13:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> BeaverOne, That is where you connect the audio output from the radio not an aerial
[13:09] <BeaverOne> it's supposed to be a transceiver, but it seemed the radio part was missing
[13:09] <eroomde> that 9-socket d connector you have highlighted is designed to connect to a separate entire radio
[13:10] <daveake> So, either not enough GPS signal or there's something interfering or the power supply is poor
[13:11] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> BeaverOne, Its not its just a computer that can drive a transceiver https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=167
[13:15] <Chetic> daveake: the power supply is a usb hub with a wifi adapter
[13:15] <Chetic> but I did try battery-powered (as intended) without wifi for about 15 minutes with an even better view of the sky this morning
[13:17] <daveake> If the Pi red low-voltage light is on or flashing then I'd change the power
[13:18] <Chetic> I'll follow that other guy's advice of taking it for a drive once I get home
[13:18] <BeaverOne> i was looking to use a radio transceiver to TX and RX commands via APRS from high altitude
[13:18] <Chetic> I know a mountain nearby :p
[13:18] <daveake> but really, those "hge" antennae are there for a reason - they work very well.
[13:18] <Chetic> how long should I expect until I get my first lock?
[13:19] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> BeaverOne, You will need to plug in a GPS and a Transceiver for that to work.
[13:19] <daveake> 15 minutes is way too long
[13:19] <BeaverOne> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: what if we ditch the T3-mini idea and start from scratch
[13:19] <Chetic> ok that's good to know, at least something to go by
[13:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> BeaverOne, In that case you will need to make the computer as well as get a GPS and a Transceiver!
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[13:22] <BeaverOne> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: was looking to use an arduino-compatible device
[13:22] <BeaverOne> guess this brings me back to : https://hamgear.wordpress.com/2015/02/03/make-your-own-transceiver-with-a-dorji-dra818u-or-dra818v/
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[13:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> BeaverOne, Well that looks as if it might be OK, not one I've heard of. What about GPS as well ?
[13:24] <daveake> It's not APRS frequencies
[13:24] <BeaverOne> daveake: oh
[13:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> truue it 70cms!
[13:25] <BeaverOne> :(
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[13:26] <BeaverOne> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: i've got a MTK3339 GPS module breakout board wired up Digital Serial pins 0,1 of a Teensy 3.2
[13:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Does it work above 10/12kms does it have a flight mode ? Anyway I have yo go AFK
[13:33] <BeaverOne> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: 40km altitude
[13:40] <BeaverOne> here's a transceiver i found that does APRS frequencies, http://i.imgur.com/K8WGJsk.png
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[13:41] <craag> BeaverOne: You see the yellow box on the right of that
[13:41] <craag> THat's the transceiver
[13:41] <craag> Everything to the left of it is a computer
[13:42] <gonzo_> BeaverOne, do you have an amateur radio licence?
[13:42] <craag> What are you trying to do exactly?
[13:42] <BeaverOne> gonzo_: not yet
[13:42] <BeaverOne> was going to start studying for the exam
[13:44] <BeaverOne> craag: i'm currently working on a flight controller (teensy 3.2, gps, and 9 dof imu) for a parafoil that will be part of the retrieval /parachute part of a high altitude balloon
[13:44] <craag> Ok
[13:44] <craag> and you want position tracking transmitted down?
[13:44] <gonzo_> if you are not already, join your local AR club, and find out about aprs. Look at the radios, and see what's required to set up a system and decode the data
[13:45] <craag> There's a radiometrix module 'HX1' that, combined with some common AVR/Arduino code, will do aprs beacons quite easily.
[13:45] <BeaverOne> i also was hoping to receive aprs also at the retrieval package
[13:45] <gonzo_> or find a local ham who uses it and go and get them to demo it
[13:45] <craag> receiving aprs will add a *lot* more complexity and weight
[13:45] <gonzo_> (AR people like showing/explaining)_
[13:46] <BeaverOne> craag: was hoping this would help a lot, http://www.byonics.com/mtt4b
[13:46] <Upu> thats just an 818 with an amp
[13:47] <craag> Yes that would help, but those modules tend to be rather deaf
[13:47] <gonzo_> and a bloody big amp!
[13:47] <craag> they're not really designed for long range comms
[13:47] <craag> and that's a lot of cash...
[13:47] <Upu> are Byonics scared of SMD or something
[13:47] <Upu> wow
[13:48] <craag> What do you need aprs receive for?
[13:48] <BeaverOne> was hoping to send commands to the flight controller
[13:49] <gonzo_> what do you need to command?
[13:49] <BeaverOne> perhaps to change what particular telemetry or format of the data is over APRS
[13:50] <craag> Your choice, but in my opinion being able to do that isn't worth the extra complexity and cost
[13:50] <gonzo_> it would be good to decide what you catually need, then design for that.
[13:54] <BeaverOne> well the parafoil will at first be controlled on a set heading (PID control)
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[13:55] <BeaverOne> going have the pid control of heading generate adjustments to the two servos keep it on track
[13:55] <craag> yep
[13:55] <BeaverOne> during my studies and trials i don't want to lose control of it, so i was hoping to use remote control to keep it together
[13:56] <BeaverOne> my parafoil will only have a 3 meter wingspan
[14:01] <craag> right, so you might want an RC board for aero testing
[14:01] <craag> then swap it out for your autopilot board
[14:03] <BeaverOne> well for maybe 20 meters or more i was going to use a standard 2.4 GHz RC receiver on the parafoil
[14:04] <BeaverOne> anything more, was hoping for APRS RC
[14:04] <craag> haha no
[14:05] <daveake> APRS is a packet-based system with everyone sharing the same frequency
[14:05] <daveake> You're not suposed to monopolise it!
[14:05] <daveake> "left a bit" ....w ait 60 seconds ... crash
[14:05] <craag> you can get longer range rc systems
[14:06] <daveake> That HAB glider in Sweden used something with a long range
[14:06] <BeaverOne> i was going to send APRS packets with PPM encoded data to drive the Servos
[14:06] <daveake> not that I could comment on the legality
[14:06] <daveake> APRS is not continuous
[14:07] <craag> you should send less than one APRS packet per minute
[14:07] <daveake> you could, say, upload a new target for the guidance system to aim at
[14:07] <BeaverOne> oh, i was hoping to make good use of the 1200 baud :(
[14:07] <eroomde> much to learn
[14:08] <eroomde> a basic hab flight first would probably be instructive, before attempting guidance
[14:08] <BeaverOne> i did hear it was publicly shared and it did seem to be common sense that you sohuldn't send a lot of rapid fire high bandwidth packets
[14:09] <craag> +1 for basic hab flight
[14:09] <daveake> +2
[14:09] <craag> just the balloon prep is enough to overwhelm you first time
[14:10] <eroomde> it will answer all of these level 1 questions you have way more effectively than irc, just doing a first flight
[14:10] <eroomde> what is a radio, what does it look like
[14:10] <eroomde> where does the antenna go
[14:10] <eroomde> what is aprs
[14:10] <eroomde> etc etc
[14:11] <eroomde> fastest way to learn
[14:12] <BeaverOne> i''m just scared of 200 miles away from launch point retrieval scenario, been looking at the cusf site and plugging away a little, but heard of some nightmare scenarios
[14:13] <daveake> If all you want to do is not have to travel that far, then just wait for a better launch day
[14:15] <gonzo_> Are you looking at a UK launch then??
[14:15] <eroomde> wait waht?
[14:16] <gonzo_> (talking APRS and posting US radio sires, I assumed you were US)
[14:16] <eroomde> you're not doing this in the uk BeaverOne
[14:16] <daveake> US iirc
[14:16] <eroomde> right
[14:16] <gonzo_> the mention of the cusf site threw me!
[14:16] <BeaverOne> yeah US
[14:17] <gonzo_> sigh or relief
[14:17] <daveake> both
[14:19] <gonzo_> putting lots of gas in the balloon (and keeping the payload light-ish) should help get a quick ascent and burst, so keeping it close to fome, but the chute and weather will affect the landing site.
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[14:19] <gonzo_> someone else will have to comment on parafoils
[14:20] <gonzo_> /s close to home
[14:20] <eroomde> parafoils will probably be challenging regardless
[14:21] <gonzo_> would expect that it mist come down at least as close as a simple chute
[14:23] <fsphil> use a small balloon
[14:24] <fsphil> if you just want to practice
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[14:34] <adamgreig> hey Laurenceb did you find any uk suppliers for normal e-matches?
[14:39] <Laurenceb> I managed to get some through Malcolm Jennings in the end thanks
[14:39] <Laurenceb> or at least he says he can get some, I haven't seen them yet
[14:39] Action: Laurenceb has been doing titration experiments with Klima propellant
[14:40] <eroomde> have you ground-launched something klima-powered yet>?
[14:40] <Laurenceb> nope
[14:40] <eroomde> just to check your base drag assumptions and so forth
[14:40] <eroomde> you should
[14:40] <Laurenceb> I will do yeah, but sim says its going to fly a few meters
[14:41] <eroomde> i think you've reached peak faff, if you don't mind me saying, in terms of simulation and titration
[14:41] <Laurenceb> before it becomes unstable
[14:41] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:41] <eroomde> oh put fins on :)
[14:41] <eroomde> i mean, jsut to check that the sim can actually sim
[14:41] <eroomde> in the real world
[14:41] <eroomde> doesn't have to be flight hardware
[14:41] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:42] <Laurenceb> I've done a couple of test flights of the spin system
[14:42] <Laurenceb> got ~1% errors on everything now
[14:42] <Laurenceb> sim agrees within ~1% with position and spin rate etc
[14:43] <Laurenceb> but yeah my next test will be spin + Klima ignition
[14:43] <Laurenceb> I will be behind a thick concrete wall
[14:43] <adamgreig> isn't it like a D motor
[14:43] <adamgreig> behind a cardboard box should do you
[14:43] <eroomde> just wear goggles
[14:43] <eroomde> yeah
[14:43] <adamgreig> guess the spinning might be more fun
[14:43] <Laurenceb> well the Estes comes off at ~80m/s
[14:44] <adamgreig> more energy in the rotational inertia than in the chemical rocket...
[14:44] <Laurenceb> then the Klima goes up ~10m then starts tumbing due to drag
[14:44] <adamgreig> (have not done the numbers)
[14:44] <Laurenceb> its much lower
[14:45] <Laurenceb> actually no - my next test will be Klima on a strain gauge
[14:45] <Laurenceb> early next weel
[14:45] <Laurenceb> *k
[14:45] <Laurenceb> then the model can be fine tuned
[14:45] <eroomde> cool
[14:45] <eroomde> did you get the amp and logging circuit sorted?
[14:45] <Laurenceb> drag is still relatively irrelevant
[14:46] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:46] <Laurenceb> raided my PhD box, have independent µSD logger running now
[14:46] <Laurenceb> 16bit @ 50kHz
[14:46] <Laurenceb> to a FLAC file
[14:46] <eroomde> wonder what it sounds like
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[14:51] <Laurenceb> wish my chemistry was better
[14:52] <Laurenceb> I think this propellant is potassium perchlorate + azide polymer + dicyandiamide
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[14:53] <Laurenceb> which explains why its less smokey than the perchlorate + hydrocarbon fuel stuff
[14:55] <BeaverOne> eroomde: craag https://www.flickr.com/photos/100852237@N06/albums/72157660091977635
[14:55] <Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=W8cRnITXWtY#t=109
[14:58] <chris_99> are those mach diamonds you can see on the exhaust
[14:58] <Laurenceb> yup
[14:59] <chris_99> cool
[14:59] <eroomde> that's not a mach diamond
[14:59] <craag> BeaverOne: Looks like the first steps of a basic hab tracker :)
[15:00] <eroomde> THIS is a mach diamond https://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/8371635016/in/dateposted-public/lightbox/
[15:00] <chris_99> look at https://youtu.be/W8cRnITXWtY?t=136 looks similar
[15:00] <BeaverOne> eroomde: is that a rocket engine?
[15:00] <eroomde> yes
[15:01] <chris_99> that looks really pretty
[15:02] <eroomde> it was, yes
[15:02] <eroomde> i was pleased
[15:02] <eroomde> it was a propellant combination you could synthesise on mars
[15:02] <eroomde> for sample return
[15:02] <chris_99> neat
[15:02] <eroomde> so we were just playing around to see its ignition and combustion properties
[15:02] <Laurenceb> potassium perchlorate / hydrocarbon fuel is much less pretty
[15:02] <Laurenceb> http://moonandback.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/JATO_Corsair_feat.jpg
[15:03] <eroomde> that looks wrong
[15:03] <eroomde> but regardless, the big heavy hydrocarbons often have nasty luminous solids in the exhaust
[15:03] <eroomde> or even external combustion
[15:03] <eroomde> and rarely look as nice
[15:03] <eroomde> like comparing a big mac to sushi
[15:04] <Laurenceb> http://www.diyspaceexploration.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Project-Galcit-Experimental-evaluation-of-a-simple-solid-composite-propellant.pdf
[15:04] <Laurenceb> lol figure 2
[15:04] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[15:05] <Laurenceb> it looks nice and healthy
[15:06] <russss> heh
[15:06] <russss> perchlorate/asphalt/vaseline
[15:06] <Laurenceb> sounds like an explosive face cream
[15:07] <Chetic> is transmitting ssdv images at 50 baud a bad idea?
[15:07] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:07] <Laurenceb> unless you are a Galapagos turtle
[15:07] <russss> "As it can be seen the motor did not explode"
[15:07] <Chetic> even at like reeeally low resolution?
[15:08] <eroomde> well what's the point?
[15:09] <Chetic> hopefully help me find it easier when it lands
[15:09] <daveake> no, the point of images if they're really tiny
[15:09] <Chetic> hopefully help me find it easier when it lands
[15:10] <eroomde> i doubt it
[15:10] <chris_99> what baud rate do people do SSDV here at normally?
[15:10] <eroomde> unless you're trying to identify which blade of grass you've landed on
[15:10] <Chetic> I've seen 300
[15:10] <daveake> 300
[15:10] <Chetic> I expect it to be in a tree, eroomde :P
[15:10] <Chetic> alright I'll just skip ssdv if that's what you advise
[15:11] <Laurenceb> heh I remember searching for 2 hours for a floater
[15:11] <Laurenceb> it was on the very top of the tree over my head
[15:24] <BeaverOne> there's probably not much of a point to need a transceiver for APRS on the HAB
[15:25] <BeaverOne> unless i wanted to turn off the flight controller :-\
[15:25] <BeaverOne> hmm, maybe i could turn it off using the RC part once it's low enough and close enough anyhow
[15:26] <eroomde> that's a good idea
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[15:30] <BeaverOne> eroomde: i have a RC Receiver (cppm / ppm sum support) 2.4GHz and a transmitter controller ordered, was going to be interfacing my Flight Controller to the Receiver via cppm/ppm sum over a single wire
[15:31] <BeaverOne> starting now to think about the aprs
[15:32] <BeaverOne> eroomde: i did some preliminary implementation of the PID Control on Heading/Yaw from the IMU and saw it's output recommendations from me just hand hold rotating the device
[15:34] <eroomde> nice
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[15:35] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03AIRCOR-51 after 0318 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AIRCOR-51
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[15:42] <Laurenceb> I used 28mhz rc on my rogallo
[15:42] <Laurenceb> turned on below 500m
[15:48] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb: what controller/module?
[15:49] <Laurenceb> dunno
[15:49] <Laurenceb> some ebay junk
[15:49] <BeaverOne> these hobby RC controllers are crazy fancy/expensive
[15:49] <BeaverOne> :(
[15:51] <mattbrejza> the 28mhz ones arnt...
[15:56] <BeaverOne> seems the Radiometrix HX1 is a good place to start
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[16:08] <Laurenceb> https://ukhas.org.uk/code:ground_control
[16:13] <Chetic> daveake: is it possible to disable ssdv somehow?
[16:15] <mattbrejza> unplug the camera
[16:19] <daveake> If you don't want images at all, disconnect the camera or disable in raspi-config or change "camera=Y" in pisky.txt. If you only want to stop the RTTY SSDV images but keep the full-size ones, use "image_packets=0"
[16:19] <Laurenceb> anyone know if there is a spec for the chamfer on the corners of nuts?
[16:19] <Laurenceb> http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/797/994/362/362994797_849.jpg
[16:19] <Laurenceb> not labelled on there, but the chafer is visible
[16:20] <Chetic> Thanks again daveake, I was looking for image_packets=0, matt was just being funny
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[16:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LCARS_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LCARS_chase
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[16:43] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD9EAF-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD9EAF-11
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[17:16] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[18:06] <Ian_> BeaverOne when you take a tx to altitude, the path becomes unobstructed and the signal footprint upon the earth increases - this is good!
[18:07] <Ian_> When you take a receiver to altitude, the earth footprint increases as does the potential number of unwanted sources of signal noise, interfering and adjacent stations. This puts lots of demands upon the airborn receiver
[18:07] <Ian_> which is not good.
[18:10] <Ian_> A simple airborne tx will work well, but a simple airborne rx will likely struggle, particularly if the ground station tx is small.
[18:10] <Ian_> - read low powered.
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[18:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KE8CIF-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KE8CIF-11
[18:23] <kc2pit> I wonder how cheaply one could measure that on 2m and 70cm. I worked on a project that did it for 2.4GHz, and found terrifyingly high noise levels at altitude.
[18:23] <Laurenceb> at 2.4 you would
[18:24] <kc2pit> We were mostly wondering why so many cubesats with 2.4GHz transceivers had such poor link quality compared to their rather nice-looking link budgets.
[18:24] <kc2pit> Turns out underestimating the noise floor by 10-20dB will do that to you.
[18:24] <mattbrejza> 2.4 is worse than 2m/70cm?
[18:24] <kc2pit> No wifi on 2m.
[18:24] <mattbrejza> oh okl
[18:24] <Laurenceb> microwave ovens and bluetooth
[18:25] <kc2pit> Even though wifi is low power, a billion transmitters can do a lot.
[18:25] <Ian_> On 2m or 70cm just taking a handheld up a mountain near a large city can demonstrate the problem.
[18:26] <Ian_> Thinking greater range, great. Forgetting the receiver capture fishes the same pond!
[18:26] <Laurenceb> it doesnt seem to be too bad on 70cm from the uplinks people have done
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[18:27] <Ian_> I think for a command uplink to a balloon, it would be an incidental AR transmission that had the appropriate side effect :)
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[18:28] <kc2pit> For once, I'm happy with the USA's regulations on something.
[18:28] <Ian_> Beep beep beeeep - cutdown!
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[18:36] <Chetic> daveake: could these two lines have something to do with the gps not getting any satellite data?:
[18:36] <Chetic> pinMode (UBLOX_ENABLE, OUTPUT);
[18:36] <Chetic> digitalWrite (UBLOX_ENABLE, 0);
[18:40] <Ian_> The first line sets up the port so is definitely good to go. The second line does the business \
[18:41] <Ian_> but I'm not sure if enable should be 0 or 1.
[18:42] <Ian_> This time of the evening people tend to be eating, so you might have to wait for Daveake to finish his stack of bacon butties or haunch of venison!
[18:42] <Chetic> those two lines are only run if NewBoard() evaluates to true, and I'm just guessing maybe it's related to my problems
[18:42] <Chetic> or this
[18:42] <Chetic> ERROR: could not insert 'spi_bcm2708': No such device
[18:42] <Chetic> gpio: Unable to load spi_bcm2708
[18:42] <Chetic> Failed to open i2c port
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[18:44] <kc2pit> I'm actually curious what inexpensive receivers exist that could give a decent indication of the noise spectrum on 2m and 70cm. Something like a si4464 maybe? Dunno how accurate their RSSI indication is for measuring channel noise power.
[18:46] <Jartza> hmmh
[18:46] <Jartza> I find someone mention me on the channel, but backlog doesn't reach that far :)
[18:47] <mattbrejza> http://habhub.org/zeusbot/ Jartza
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[18:50] <Ian_> Jartza, pull up habhub.org select the IRC logs then search for your username to find it in the appropriate log.
[18:50] <Ian_> Yeah, just like mattbrejza said ^^
[18:51] <Jartza> ahh, the channel is logged
[18:52] <Jartza> ahh
[18:52] <Jartza> thx
[18:52] <Ian_> Timed today at 0837
[18:53] <Ian_> Your generosity being appreciated!
[19:00] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
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[19:03] <daveake> Chetic No
[19:03] <daveake> a) the code works
[19:03] <daveake> b) If the ublox was off you wouldn't be getting GGA/RMC sentences from it
[19:03] <daveake> Ian_ Fish & Chips - it's Friday :)
[19:04] <daveake> 18<Chetic> gpio: Unable to load spi_bcm2708
[19:04] <daveake> 18<Chetic> Failed to open i2c port
[19:04] <Chetic> how can I debug this? last time my ublox was on uart so I could just listen to it (before setting flight mode) but I'm not sure how to do that with i2c
[19:05] <daveake> These mean that those aren't enabled
[19:05] <daveake> raspi-config
[19:05] <daveake> Again, nothing to do with ublox
[19:05] <daveake> No lock = no GPS signal
[19:07] <Chetic> any ideas besides checking the antenna cable then?
[19:08] <daveake> Only the ones I gave you earlier
[19:08] <daveake> As for seeing the NMEA messages, switch on gps logging and run tail -f gps.txt
[19:09] <daveake> It's also possible to see the nmea stream on the serial port
[19:10] <Chetic> I'm getting a lot of "$GNTXT,01,01,01,NMEA unknown msg*46" on the serial port without the software even running
[19:11] <RealBorg> only these msgs?
[19:11] <daveake> You're sure the s/w isn't running ?
[19:11] <Chetic> I checked with 0 results from ps aux | grep tracker
[19:11] <daveake> Have you followed the installation instructions?
[19:12] <daveake> Because it's sounding like you didn't enable spi, didn't enable i2c, and didn't disable getty on the serial port
[19:13] <Chetic> I did, and I remember doing those things
[19:13] <RealBorg> disable getty on the serial port <- may be a big problem
[19:13] <Chetic> it was a while ago and I have updated it
[19:13] <Chetic> yeah let's hope that's it
[19:13] <daveake> updated it ... "it" being ?
[19:14] <Chetic> oh uh, raspbian
[19:14] <Chetic> apt
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[19:15] <daveake> possible that something in raspbian has changed enough to stop spi/i2c
[19:15] <daveake> Anyway make sure they're enabled
[19:15] <daveake> Not that either i2c is needed for pits
[19:15] <daveake> and spi is only needed for the adc (pre 2.4 board) or lora
[19:19] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:23] <Jartza> hello Lunar_Lander
[19:23] <Jartza> Ian_: yeah, found it :)
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[19:54] <Chetic> daveake: still getting those errors after enabling spi/i2c and disabling the other two in raspi-config
[19:54] <Chetic> after rebooting
[19:55] <Chetic> I am absolutely sure I have disabled the serial port terminal but the gps is still sending lots of "$GNTXT,01,01,01,NMEA unknown msg*46"
[19:55] <RealBorg> Chetic, did you try fuser <gpsdevice>?
[19:56] <Chetic> that gave no output and a return code of 1
[19:57] <Chetic> which means no other process is using it
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[20:08] <Chetic> ah "they are an artifact of using the cat command in this environment (it appears that the cat command or something else is sending data to the GPS receiver that it can't deal with)."
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[20:19] <amell> adamgreig: are you rocketing on sunday?
[20:21] <amell> Laurenceb: do you still need e-matches?
[20:27] <amell> does anyone else need anything? :) bit quiet here.
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[20:40] <amell> Aha, Laurenceb_ are you active?
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> kind of
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> cooking
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> potassium nitrate and sugar? :)
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> no lol
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> amell: what gives?
[20:47] <amell> You were looking for e-matches. I have many. Also was wanting to ask about progress on your project. we can talk later.
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> sure
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[21:01] <Laurenceb_> ok, back
[21:01] <Laurenceb_> yeah I'd be interested in any e-matches I can get thanks
[21:01] <Laurenceb_> but the requirements are a bit specific
[21:01] <Laurenceb_> they need to fire off a 2.7v supercap
[21:01] <Laurenceb_> atm I have some Cesaroni mini igniters shipping
[21:02] <amell> are these for use at HAB altitudes?
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> the only problems are 1) they only burn for ~120ms, 2) they are a bit long (~6mm)
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> yes
[21:02] <amell> You will need extra oomph.
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> hmm I'm not so sure
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> its more a case of pressure build up
[21:02] <amell> http://www.vernk.com/Igniters.htm
[21:02] <Laurenceb_> ooh
[21:02] <amell> i have daveyfires
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> ah yeah those
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> too big :-/
[21:03] <amell> CTI have all sorts.
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> my nozzle throat is 3mm
[21:03] <amell> what motor?
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> yes I have some 2mm diameter ones shipping
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> Klima D motor
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> the stock Klima igniters need 6v
[21:03] <amell> oh. BP. thought you were doing pro24
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> I was a while back
[21:04] <amell> what happened?
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> and Klima is a weird custom composite propellant
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[21:04] <Laurenceb_> I decided to do it in two stages, start with a simple proof of concept rocket
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> no tracker and minimal modifications to the rocket
[21:04] <amell> klima are potassium perchlorate.
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[21:05] <Laurenceb_> yeah, with a mixture of weird stuff
[21:05] <amell> just one D9? no chadding?
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> mainly Dicyanamide
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> actually a D3
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> with rebored nozzle and a nylon nosecone
[21:06] <amell> oh, going for the long burn
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> no tracker, but it can be tracked optically if its launched in twilight
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[21:06] <amell> optically from where? :)
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> I'm currently building a test stand
[21:06] <amell> ISS?
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> the ground
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> with a DSLR
[21:06] <amell> well you must have expensive lenses
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> just a 50mm standard lens
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> then shoot raw frames at 1hz
[21:07] <amell> youre telling me you can track a klima at hab heights?
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> actually at 150km
[21:07] <amell> i do not understand
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> each pixel is tens of meters across
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> but that doesnt matter
[21:08] <amell> oh, silver foil at twilight. ok. maybe so
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> basically its a magnitude 7 "star"
[21:08] <amell> yea, if you wrap it in foil.
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> yeah it'll be throwing off a few watts of sunlight
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> white paper scatters better
[21:10] <amell> have you looked at the klima tapematch?
[21:10] <amell> you can use that with a normal igniter
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[21:11] <Laurenceb_> yeah, I'd need to test in a vacuum chamber
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> I'm going to test a few ideas in Leos vacuum chamber
[21:12] <amell> leo has one? cool
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> DIY - steel chamber with ebay pump
[21:12] <amell> with built in chiller? for rtw hab simulations?
[21:13] <amell> klima - should be ok. but what about thermal shock?
[21:13] <Laurenceb_> huh
[21:13] <amell> Someone was asking about launching rockets from a balloon in the UKRA facebook group the other day,
[21:13] <Laurenceb_> we are using a "greenhouse" to keep the rockoon warm
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> it clips off using a hot resistor cutter
[21:14] <amell> there were a number of comments on the topic.
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> I'll have a read
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> the good news is that I solved the spin problems
[21:14] <amell> Please do contribute :)
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> I'll have a read in a sec
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> bit wary of sharing too much or talking to people who will take it all the wrong way
[21:15] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> "eeek scary terowist"
[21:15] <amell> nah, the UKRA people are ok.
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> my impression of some UKRA isnt too good
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> *UKRA discussions
[21:16] <amell> actually let me check i mentioned the right group
[21:16] <amell> thats ok. youre talking to UKRA council here ;)
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> oh ok I guess
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> lol I didnt mean any wrong
[21:16] <amell> no i know. theres been some shit, but its all good now.
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> heh
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> ok found what I was looking for
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> http://imgur.com/BB3kE3k.gifv
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> new spin system, it actually works too
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> thats 240fps frame by frame
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[21:18] <amell> yeah, its United Kingdom Rocketry Association group. I posted the YT link to your ukhas talk
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> oh ok
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> so theres an Estes A motor on a nylon clip
[21:19] <amell> Im sure they would be interested in more info
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> takes it up to 20krpm
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> then breaks off, leaving the motor spinning
[21:19] <amell> watching, its hard to see as its so far away
[21:20] <amell> wow. thats stable!
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> yeah I coudnt pan the camera as I was safely behind a big wall and also that all happens in 200ms
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[21:20] <Laurenceb_> yeah its ~1.5degree precession
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[21:21] <Laurenceb_> there is some Magnus effect tip over but that would no happen if the rockoon ignited
[21:22] <amell> how do you time the spin motor with the main motor?
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> the magnus effect is probably good - helps to kill the torque free precession once the rockoon is in flight
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> there is going to be an igniter clipped into the bottom of the main motor
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> thats the tricky bit i've been working on
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> it needs to weight <2grams
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> *weigh
[21:22] <amell> it needs to ignite just after spin up?
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> so I'm using a 1F supercap
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> just after the spin motor breaks off
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> also it needs some safety features
[21:23] <amell> why?
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> so I have 1F cap, two tactile switches with M3 nuts attached
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> surely you know, as a UKRA council member
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> so I dont blow myself up launching the balloon
[21:24] <amell> oh that level of safety.
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> yes
[21:24] <amell> i thought you meant at altitude
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> also if it falls off and a child finds it
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> ok
[21:24] <amell> yes, we dont want to drop cluster munitions in green fields of england
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> so there is centripetal accel based interlocking
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> so both interlocks need to close, then a breakwire needs to be triggered
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> that gets triggered when the spin motor separates
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> so I only have ~2A at ~2v
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> amell: No, just over downing street
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> lul
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> that makes choice of igniters a little tricky
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> then they also need to be small enough to fit the Klima motor
[21:27] <amell> you dont need to stick it inside, use tapematch to fire through
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> yeah thats one of my back up plans
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> I also have some pyrogen from sierrafoxhobbies
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[21:28] <Laurenceb_> as the cesaroni igniter is only 2mm diameter I can coat it
[21:28] <amell> Cesaroni make a lot of different igniters.
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> but I really dont know how easy to ignite the Klima propellant is
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[21:28] <Laurenceb_> its fired very easily in my tests so far, at least as well as Estes
[21:29] <amell> they change depending on the motor. vmax has green dip on it.
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> ok
[21:29] <amell> i made 3000 ft on a 1 grain vmax in september.
[21:29] <SIbot> In real units: 3000 ft = 914 m
[21:30] <kc2pit> So is this thing released from the balloon before beginning spin-up, or is it still in a tube or something?
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> kc2pit: its on a little launch rail
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> ~50mm long
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> thats bolted to the side of the payload box
[21:31] <kc2pit> Give any consideration to inductive ignition from a power source in the balloon payload?
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[21:32] <amell> inductive& hmmm
[21:32] <amell> could induction generate that much current?
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> kc2pit: there is several meters of horizontal sep when the main motor fires
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> so no
[21:32] <kc2pit> Ahh, ok.
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> stepladder == where the payload box is
[21:33] <mbales_> afternoonn all
[21:33] <kc2pit> Okay, so attached at spin motor ignition, way off over there at main ignition.
[21:34] <Laurenceb_> yes, which is nice from the point of view of avoiding the payload suspension lines
[21:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BGE_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BGE_chase
[21:35] Action: Laurenceb_ is confused
[21:35] <Laurenceb_> here? http://mailman.ukra.org.uk/mailman/listinfo
[21:39] <Laurenceb_> oh facebook
[21:39] Action: Laurenceb_ learns to read
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> I think the thermal is a bit of a non issue
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> its fairly easy to keep the rockoon about 0C using passive means
[21:58] <Laurenceb_> ignition in a near vacuum is rather more tricky
[21:59] <kc2pit> Trying to pack the nozzle with a slow-burning mix that you can ignite before separation is probably more trouble than it's worth?
[22:00] <Laurenceb_> probably, yes
[22:00] <kc2pit> Characterizing the burn rate over temperature and pressure would be a pain...
[22:01] <Laurenceb_> yes, a lot of slow burning compositions really dont like a vacuum
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[22:13] <Lunar_LanderB> damn synchronization of the router
[22:15] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxRXVzSUNCT1h2NHM/view
[22:15] <Jartza> RGB debug interface :D
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[22:16] <Lunar_LanderB> nice :)
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[22:20] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxSHh0ckxBVTE2Rm8/view
[22:20] <Jartza> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2dTzW9TMeBxcl9UWkJVSmtsOFE/view
[22:21] <Jartza> fairly happy with that now... could be always better, of course ;)
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[22:26] <Laurenceb_> hahah wut http://superbus.biz/
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[22:26] <SpeedEvil> I know I've seen that for several years
[22:27] <SpeedEvil> There are way too many people that can make nice curvy shells/renders in the world.
[22:28] <adamgreig> Amell yes
[22:29] <amell> adamgreig: cool. Jack emailed me about ukra sub for sunday.
[22:29] <amell> I will be there.
[22:30] <adamgreig> Sweet
[22:30] <adamgreig> Look forward to seeing you
[22:30] <amell> Apparently freshers have built a fibreglass rocket.
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[22:30] <amell> hopefully it goes better than BALLS!
[22:31] <adamgreig> We'll have the top stage only of a two stage rocket a bunch of freshers made, and a test flight of an actively guided canard rocket (with the canards all locked and no guidance, it's passively stable with fins)
[22:31] <adamgreig> It will be very well sub sonic which makes things a bit easier
[22:31] <adamgreig> Mach 3 etc :p
[22:31] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> nice, this is your kalman filter stuff?
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[22:32] <amell> what motor size?
[22:33] <amell> is this just H,J,K stuff?
[22:33] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
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[22:50] <SpeedEvil> D IIRC
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[22:50] <SpeedEvil> launch weight is well under 100g
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> err
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> nvm
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> ignore above
[22:51] <amell> :)
[22:54] <Jartza> hmm okay
[22:54] <Jartza> I really am tired, talking to wrong channel :)
[22:57] <adamgreig> Amell yea all small
[22:57] <adamgreig> Just for teaching really
[22:57] <adamgreig> Bbl
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[00:00] --- Sat Oct 31 2015