[00:01] niftylettuce (uid2733@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lngluhadmmmqnsai) left irc: Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
[00:02] amell (~amell@graveley.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[00:03] <amell> greetz& saw this on bangbad - http://www.banggood.com/Ublox-7-Series-Mini-GPS-wCompass-For-APM2_6-APM2_8-PX4-Pixhawk-Mini-APM-MWC-Flight-Controller-Board-p-1006319.html
[00:03] <amell> do you think this is fake?
[00:03] <amell> seems too good for £9.19 including shipping.
[00:04] <amell> £8.87 if i buy 3,
[00:10] lunarmobile (~androirc@ left irc: Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )
[00:15] <SpeedEvil> Do you actually care if it's not a ublox 7?
[00:15] <SpeedEvil> http://www.banggood.com/1-5Hz-VK2828U7G5LF-TTL-Ublox-GPS-Module-With-Antenna-p-965540.html
[00:16] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-190-79-167.range86-190.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[00:16] <SpeedEvil> Shipping also takes aaaages
[00:17] <amell> has anyone seen a fake ublox? do they exist?
[00:18] <mattbrejza> quite often legit silicon but knock off module
[00:21] Ian_ (4d66af83@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left #highaltitude.
[00:21] Ian_ (4d66af83@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[00:22] <amell> module is the bit in the silver box right
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> I don't mean fake ublox 7
[00:22] <SpeedEvil> I mean it might not even be a ublox 7
[00:23] <amell> Well it does say Ublox 7 in the title...
[00:23] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> 'x works with y' may in some cases be anything that works with y
[00:24] <SpeedEvil> from some vendors
[00:34] mbales_ (~mbales@ip184-187-162-46.sb.sd.cox.net) joined #highaltitude.
[00:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W7QO-9 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W7QO-9
[01:09] mbales_ (~mbales@ip184-187-162-46.sb.sd.cox.net) left irc: Quit: mbales_
[01:11] DL7AD1 (~sven@p4FD432D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[01:12] DL7AD (~sven@p4FD42F7C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[01:14] malclocke (~malc@ joined #highaltitude.
[01:14] malclocke (~malc@ left irc: Client Quit
[02:00] mbales_ (~mbales@ip184-187-162-46.sb.sd.cox.net) joined #highaltitude.
[02:13] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.
[02:14] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[02:25] KT5TK1 (~thomas@p4FD7ACEF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[02:27] KT5TK (~thomas@p5B37B45B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[02:28] BeaverOne (499a2993@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[03:28] mbales_ (~mbales@ip184-187-162-46.sb.sd.cox.net) left irc: Quit: mbales_
[03:35] jubatus (~mIRC@unaffiliated/jubatus) joined #highaltitude.
[03:35] jubatus (mIRC@unaffiliated/jubatus) left #highaltitude.
[04:02] heathkid (~heathkid@unaffiliated/heathkid) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[04:02] heathkid (~heathkid@unaffiliated/heathkid) joined #highaltitude.
[04:06] bobsaget (~john@059149185193.ctinets.com) joined #highaltitude.
[04:07] tripleclones (~tripleclo@unaffiliated/tripleclones) left irc: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
[04:07] tripleclones (~tripleclo@unaffiliated/tripleclones) joined #highaltitude.
[04:21] andycamb (~andycamb@host81-129-229-56.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[04:27] es5nhc (~tarmo@108-40-71-217.sta.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[04:28] day_ (~yashi@unaffiliated/day) joined #highaltitude.
[04:32] day (~yashi@unaffiliated/day) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds
[04:32] Nick change: day_ -> day
[04:32] mbales (~mbales@ip184-187-162-46.sb.sd.cox.net) joined #highaltitude.
[05:03] mbales (~mbales@ip184-187-162-46.sb.sd.cox.net) left irc: Quit: mbales
[05:05] mbales_ (~mbales@ip184-187-162-46.sb.sd.cox.net) joined #highaltitude.
[05:13] superkuh (~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[05:54] DL1SGP (~felix64@dhcp40.signon3.dk.beevpn.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[06:17] Lemml (andreas@p3E9C2BF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[06:40] superkuh (~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh) joined #highaltitude.
[06:46] bobsaget (~john@059149185193.ctinets.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[07:05] garymortimer (29a200e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[07:30] mbales_ (~mbales@ip184-187-162-46.sb.sd.cox.net) left irc: Quit: mbales_
[07:51] <nickjohnson> How long's a HAB flight typically last?
[07:51] fl_0 (foo@p200300710E7CDF9959C76A01F2F92083.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Quit: STRG + Q
[07:51] <nickjohnson> http://hackaday.com/2015/10/28/tiny-radio-tracks-your-balloons/ - I find myself thinking that 1xAA would be even cheaper, and probably last long enough.
[07:52] <Upu> well 6 hours min
[07:53] <Upu> track soar is mbales's baby
[07:54] <Upu> but it needs 2 x AA
[07:54] <Upu> as its stepping up to 5V
[07:55] <eroomde> there are many flight computers by people in this channel that can get >1day from a single AA
[07:55] <eroomde> on a smaller pcb etc etc
[07:55] <Upu> they will run from 1 x AA but the battery life isn't great
[07:55] <Upu> yeah its the choice of raiod
[07:55] <Upu> radio
[07:55] fl_0 (foo@p200300710E2D9A99B94932FAFF5F343A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[07:58] <Darkside> Upu: is it just me or do those lora boards draw a lot of current?
[07:58] <Darkside> well, it seems to get warm
[07:59] <Upu> just you
[07:59] <Upu> can't remember tbh
[07:59] <Darkside> heh
[07:59] <Darkside> i am running mine a little bit higher power
[07:59] <Upu> possibly that then :)
[07:59] <Darkside> only 25mW tho
[07:59] <Darkside> have you measured the input current?
[07:59] <Upu> probably not actually
[08:00] <Upu> they were just sort of thrown together
[08:00] <Darkside> heh
[08:01] <Upu> but given there were one radio away from a design I know well I didn't see anything to concern
[08:01] <Darkside> sure
[08:01] <Darkside> i havent done a runtime test yet
[08:04] ipdove (~ipdove@interclub.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[08:06] <Upu> possibly daveake has measured it ? I have those three for you at work I'll stick them on the meter on Monday
[08:22] <Darkside> cheers
[08:23] <Darkside> and yeah, if you could throw in a few rpi lora shields
[08:23] <Darkside> blank ones
[08:23] <Darkside> i have a few lora modules i can use
[08:23] <Darkside> let me know where to send monies and how much monies
[08:28] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.lazyleopard.org.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[08:38] fab4space (~fab4space@ joined #highaltitude.
[08:41] drsnik_ (~drsnik@gate3.ima.cz) joined #highaltitude.
[08:44] drsnik (~drsnik@gate3.ima.cz) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[08:50] KT5TK1 (~thomas@p4FD7ACEF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[08:50] DL7AD1 (~sven@p4FD432D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[08:50] DL7AD (~sven@p4FD432D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[08:50] KT5TK (~thomas@p4FD7ACEF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[09:06] Derecho (~derecho@g35225.upc-g.chello.nl) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[09:07] Derecho (~derecho@g35225.upc-g.chello.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[09:09] T-MaN (~thomas@ joined #highaltitude.
[09:36] volapyk (~volapyk@gw.telia.dk) joined #highaltitude.
[09:41] infaddict (~infaddict@ joined #highaltitude.
[09:50] <nickjohnson> Upu: There are plenty of boost converters that can boost to 5v from a single AA
[09:50] <nickjohnson> PAM2401 to name one
[10:00] <Upu> yeah thats not the issue
[10:01] <Upu> it does work but the battery lasts about 4-5 hours
[10:01] <Upu> vs 30 from 2
[10:01] <Upu> efficiencies
[10:01] <Upu> the radio takes quite a bit of current @ 5V
[10:07] Haxxa (~Harrison@cpe-124-189-140-77.cyzn1.lon.bigpond.net.au) left irc: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[10:10] <nickjohnson> ah
[10:10] <nickjohnson> The product page only claims 12 hours for two batteries
[10:11] <nickjohnson> A factor of 3 is a huge difference in efficiency
[10:11] Haxxa (~Harrison@CPE-124-189-147-51.sqcy1.win.bigpond.net.au) joined #highaltitude.
[10:12] <daveake> Converters are less efficient at low i/p voltages, plus the internal resistance of the batteries, especially when cold, becomes a big factor at the currents being drawn
[10:12] <nickjohnson> Yeah, but a factor of three?
[10:13] <nickjohnson> I know the pam2401 gets better than 33% efficiency boosting one AA to 5V at 500mA
[10:14] <daveake> 33% efficiency in the regulator, or including the battery losses ?
[10:14] <eroomde> no but a 5V system doing the same thing as a 1.8V system uses 5/1.8 as much power
[10:14] <eroomde> it's the same current, you just waste a lot more energy every clock transition
[10:15] <Upu> just try it nick
[10:15] <Upu> I don't have the calcs and tests I did to hand
[10:15] <Upu> but I also went 2 cells
[10:16] <Upu> if you want to drop to 1 cell you need to look at a different 3.3V or 1.8V radio
[10:16] Chetic_ (~chetic@c83-253-165-51.bredband.comhem.se) joined #highaltitude.
[10:18] <nickjohnson> I used two cells in my application too, but I needed 1A output current
[10:18] <nickjohnson> What's the peak current for the radio? And what sort of duty cycle?
[10:18] <Upu> don't have to hand
[10:18] <Upu> but have measured it
[10:18] <Upu> and it will run with a single cell
[10:19] <Upu> just for significantly less time
[10:19] Chetic (~chetic@c213-89-1-116.bredband.comhem.se) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[10:20] <Upu> its about 1 sec of TX once a min
[10:20] <Upu> not much
[10:20] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/2015-04-13%2010.29.26.jpg
[10:20] <Upu> thats my "version" (its been done six months) of the small APRS tracker
[10:20] <nickjohnson> What order of magnitude of current are we talking about?
[10:20] <nickjohnson> 50mA? 500mA? 5A?
[10:21] <Upu> 140mA @ 5V
[10:22] <nickjohnson> That doesn't seem so steep for a single cell at decent efficiency
[10:22] <daveake> Which with the 33% efficiency converter and 1.2V battery is 1.7A
[10:22] Action: nickjohnson shrugs
[10:22] <nickjohnson> I'm positive you can get a lot better than 33% total efficiency. There's no way the PAM2401 does that poorly, for instance
[10:23] <Upu> I measured it at 1.5V and I think it pulled 1A and through thats enough
[10:23] <Upu> TPS61202
[10:24] <daveake> 1.7A will drop approx 0.2V from the cell, at room temperature
[10:24] <daveake> worse when cold
[10:24] <nickjohnson> daveake: I'm not saying that 1.7A isn't a lot to draw from a single AA. I'm saying that 33% efficiency is absurdly low.
[10:25] ibanezmatt13 (~ibanezmat@nat-0-163.soton.ac.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[10:25] <Upu> we use these where is very cold and battery voltage can drop as a result
[10:25] <daveake> sorry I thought you quoted 33% ^
[10:26] <nickjohnson> daveake: I based that on upu saying they got 30 hours on 2xAA and 4-6 hours on 1xAA
[10:27] <Upu> ish
[10:27] <Upu> honestly don't get too hung up on it :)
[10:27] <nickjohnson> *nods*
[10:28] <Upu> 2 cells is fine works well, this isn't designed to be "pico" its designed to throw in a box
[10:28] <nickjohnson> Fair enough. I don't have a great handle on what the weight issues are on a HAB anyway :)
[10:28] <Upu> plug in chuck in box concentrate on cameras etc :)
[10:28] <Upu> well
[10:28] <Upu> we can lift quite a bit under a latex
[10:28] <daveake> pam2401 datasheet doesn't show efficiency vs i/p voltage :(
[10:28] <nickjohnson> daveake: It does, but only for a couple of (high) input voltages
[10:28] <Upu> as the americans seem quite fond of exploiting
[10:29] <Upu> 60g is nothing
[10:29] <nickjohnson> Figure 4 and 6
[10:29] <nickjohnson> er, 5
[10:29] <Upu> party balloons on the other hand they need lighter
[10:29] <daveake> Yes 3.3 and 4.5 .. no curve and nothing that mentiones 1V or thereabouts
[10:29] <daveake> aka useless
[10:29] <nickjohnson> TPS61202 doesn't have an efficiency-vs-input-voltage graph either
[10:29] <nickjohnson> Just a lot more graphs for different fixed input and output voltages
[10:30] <nickjohnson> Upu: You can make a HAB out of a party balloon?
[10:30] <nickjohnson> I wouldn't have thought one would even lift 50g
[10:30] <Upu> sure
[10:30] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PAVA9/Scan034.jpg
[10:30] <Upu> Leo flew one round the world
[10:30] <Upu> 5 times
[10:30] <day> :D
[10:31] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PAVA9/09%20-%20aCwFImB.jpg
[10:31] <Upu> they need to be light
[10:31] <day> is it one of these metalfoil balloons? *cant watch pictures atm*
[10:31] <nickjohnson> That's awesome. Are we really talking about an ordinary helium balloon you'd get from a clown somewhere?
[10:31] <day> i imagine they might be quite resilient
[10:31] <Upu> close yeah
[10:31] <nickjohnson> Those metal ones would pop easily, wouldn't they? No flexibility.
[10:31] <Upu> Qualatex 36"
[10:32] <nickjohnson> That's awesome. Do you need launch permission for something that small?
[10:32] <Upu> nope
[10:32] <Upu> http://www.balloons-united.com/en/qualatex36smile-standardyellow.html
[10:32] <Upu> like that :)
[10:32] <Upu> I'm so getting a smily one and launching it
[10:33] <nickjohnson> Okay, that's a pretty big party balloon
[10:33] <nickjohnson> But still
[10:33] <Upu> yeah you underfill them
[10:33] <nickjohnson> What band does that radio use?
[10:33] <Upu> 434Mhz ISM
[10:33] <Upu> or APRS where permitted (geofencing)
[10:33] <nickjohnson> No license there either, then?
[10:34] <day> Upu: i still dont get how underfilling them helps, wont thehy simply fly higher until they reach a critical pressure and pop?
[10:35] <nickjohnson> day: Isn't flying higher part of the goal?
[10:35] <Upu> they get to an equilibruim point without popping
[10:35] <day> nickjohnson: might be. but if you want to do a long distance flight i would consider 'not exploding' > 'new height record'
[10:35] <nickjohnson> true
[10:36] <nickjohnson> So, stupid question, but if you can have a balloon that requires no launch permission, and a radio that requires no license, has anyone put together a "fly your own HAB kit" with everything you need? That seems way more accessible than I thought it was.
[10:37] <adamgreig> can't carry a camera and won't get above say 12km
[10:37] <adamgreig> so immediately loses most of the appeal
[10:38] <nickjohnson> Still pretty cool, though
[10:38] <Upu> yeah the party picos are mainly people just playing with radios and ideas
[10:38] <day> and those are usually interested in building them
[10:39] <Upu> the hardware is the easy bit the real value on them is now the code
[10:39] Mack (~Mack@unaffiliated/mack) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[10:40] <adamgreig> I would have thought the physical balloons and the related manufacturing techniques were the real value
[10:40] <adamgreig> the code isn't much more than a power saving version of a standard hab tracker with aprs?
[10:41] <adamgreig> it didn't take leo 66 flights to get the firmware right, is what I'm getting at I suppose :P
[10:41] Mack (~Mack@unaffiliated/mack) joined #highaltitude.
[10:44] <day> i wouldnt say its that simple. geofencing, regional frequencies, different transmission protocols etc.
[10:44] <adamgreig> sure but people have been doing that on habs for yonks
[10:44] <adamgreig> we had geofences for cutdowns way way back
[10:45] <Upu> well yes the balloons as well
[10:45] <adamgreig> not saying the firmware is trivial or easy, but my feeling is the hard part's the balloon
[10:45] <Upu> fair
[10:47] <adamgreig> that view is probably biased by my experience though :P
[10:48] <nickjohnson> Isn't the balloon just a matter of buying a commercial product? There's plenty of options.
[10:48] <adamgreig> no, not really
[10:48] <nickjohnson> Mind you, the closest I've come to HABing is releasing a party balloon with a message in a sealed bag when I was 12
[10:48] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-149-102-179.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:48] <adamgreig> the commercial options will struggle to stay aloft for a useful amount of time, in general
[10:48] <nickjohnson> It flew ~300km and was found by someone on a beach
[10:48] <adamgreig> welllll
[10:49] <adamgreig> it depends, perhaps
[10:49] <adamgreig> iirc one of the really long duration floats was just an off the shelf commercial balloon
[10:49] <Upu> yeah a few have worked
[10:49] <Upu> but leo's most sucessful ones were modified/home made
[10:49] <lilafisch> weird 'survey' on enjoyment of music for people with hearing impairment
[10:49] <nickjohnson> I'm also reminded of a neat project to track bird migrations without a GPS. It used sunrise and sunset times, and an accurate internal clock, to determine both latitude and longitude
[10:50] <nickjohnson> Only problem using that with a balloon would be that you'd need to get the data back somehow
[10:50] <lilafisch> 'does music sound pleasant'??
[10:50] <lilafisch> echan, sry
[10:51] Action: Upu pats lilafisch
[10:54] <garymortimer> We fit those bird trackers, they work very well. yes you do need to get the bird back.....
[10:57] <eroomde> nickjohnson: i think with a lot of this there has never been any technical impediement to a 'here is a complete end-to-end kit'
[10:57] <eroomde> it's just more a question of what problem does that solve
[10:57] <eroomde> except people learning less overall
[10:58] <adamgreig> and indeed plenty of people making plenty of money selling such things now
[10:58] <eroomde> i'm ignoring any commercial motivation here
[10:59] <nickjohnson> garymortimer: Ah, neat, I didn't know they'd been used beyond that one experiment
[10:59] <nickjohnson> eroomde: Well, providing an easy way to get started usually results in more people trying something out, and maybe taking it further
[11:00] <eroomde> the former yes
[11:00] <eroomde> the latter, rarely
[11:01] <eroomde> but i've always questioned the 'get more people launching stuff' imperative
[11:01] <nickjohnson> There's lots of examples of lower barriers of entry leading to more adoption and more enthusiasts in different areas. What makes HAB unique in that regard/
[11:01] <nickjohnson> er ?
[11:02] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-149-102-179.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
[11:02] <eroomde> I'm not questioning that bit
[11:02] <eroomde> i'm agreeing
[11:02] Tiger^ (tygrys@moo.pl) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[11:02] <eroomde> lowering a barrier to entry gets more people involved
[11:02] <eroomde> but there seems to be an implied dot dot dot.... PROFIT
[11:02] <eroomde> which i don't see
[11:02] andyvk5 (~andyvk5@zedm.net) joined #highaltitude.
[11:02] <eroomde> unless it's actual money profit for people selling kits
[11:03] <eroomde> it's good for schools, but most of the kits are just people launching a potato or cudly toy up infront of a gopro out of a field one saturday and then not coming back
[11:03] <eroomde> great
[11:03] <eroomde> might even get in the local news
[11:06] jubatus (~mIRC@ joined #highaltitude.
[11:06] jubatus (~mIRC@ left irc: Changing host
[11:06] jubatus (~mIRC@unaffiliated/jubatus) joined #highaltitude.
[11:06] jubatus (mIRC@unaffiliated/jubatus) left #highaltitude.
[11:08] <eroomde> what i think has got more (and more useful) people into ukhas and ballooning are resources to help you do a better flight yourself
[11:08] <eroomde> lots of teaching material, the wiki, the predictor, the tracker, this irc channel
[11:08] <eroomde> stuff that helps you with your thinking rather than removing the need to
[11:09] T-MaN (~thomas@ left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[11:09] <eroomde> it's not like there's a finacial barrier that a kit would solve - a kit would probably be more expensive than DIY
[11:10] <eroomde> i don't seen an analogue for how a $100 3d printer lets you make stuff you previously needed a $2000 mill to do
[11:10] <eroomde> or a $20 arduino removes the need for a $500 jtag
[11:10] <eroomde> i.e. things that enable a lot of the maker community
[11:11] <day> thats to narrow minded
[11:11] <day> many people dont have the tools to assemble pcbs
[11:11] <eroomde> dis gone be good
[11:11] <nickjohnson> Well, playing devil's advocate, the Arduino didn't make it any cheaper to develop with AVRs
[11:11] <day> theres a lot of stuff involved that you take for granted that they cant do
[11:11] <nickjohnson> You can buy an ISP programmer cheaply, even more so if someone with one makes another AVR into an ISP programmer for you
[11:11] <nickjohnson> It reduced barriers to entry by making the getting started route really simple
[11:12] <eroomde> day: sure, but you don't need to assemble PCBs for hab
[11:12] <eroomde> never have
[11:13] Strykar (~wakkawakk@ joined #highaltitude.
[11:13] <eroomde> nickjohnson: sure, so that's why you also have the community and ecosystem stuff, which i was alluding to above
[11:14] <day> eroomde: hm. i was thinking super light aprs tracker.
[11:14] <eroomde> oh right. maybe then
[11:14] <eroomde> aprs is neither here nor there for uk stuff
[11:15] <nickjohnson> Why's that? Is there no UK APRS network?
[11:15] <RealBorg> aprs is forbidden in the air in uk
[11:15] <russss> it's not really a thing on the ground either
[11:16] <eroomde> but it's explicity illegally a thing airborne, just to emphasise
[11:16] <eroomde> aprs and hab is not a think in the UK
[11:16] <russss> yeah
[11:16] <eroomde> thing*
[11:17] <nickjohnson> bugger.
[11:17] <day> its illegal? but what does SpacenearUS show on the maps? isnt that 433Mhz aprs?
[11:17] <eroomde> also things like arduino haven't actually made a huge difference to hab
[11:17] <russss> the amateur radio license doesn't allow you to transmit airborne, at all
[11:17] <eroomde> so i was helping people learn stuff on this channel before the arduino existed
[11:17] fab4space (~fab4space@ left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[11:17] Action: eroomde puts on his dungarees and chews tabaccee
[11:17] <eroomde> and back then, it was the same, just different
[11:17] <russss> day: that's on license-exempt frequencies, and it's not usually APRS in the UK.
[11:18] <eroomde> people would say things like
[11:18] <eroomde> 'ok, i've bought this atmega32 from maplin. How to a put the linux in it?'
[11:18] <eroomde> and you think right, gosh, let's start from scratch here with how microcontrollers actually work
[11:18] <eroomde> and nowadays they say
[11:19] <eroomde> 'i've got software serial for the gps and pwm for the radio on my arduino from this github but it's not working'
[11:19] <eroomde> and you say 'they're both using TIMER1'
[11:19] <eroomde> and they say 'what's a timer?'
[11:19] <nickjohnson> heh
[11:19] <eroomde> and you think right, gosh, let's start from scratch here with how microcontrollers actually work
[11:19] <eroomde> plus ca change
[11:19] <russss> I thought we were overdue for one of eroomde's rants ;)
[11:20] <eroomde> ranto finito
[11:22] <day> could it be that Texas Instruments has especially bad datasheets?
[11:22] <day> i wouldnt even call them datasheets...
[11:22] <eroomde> is that a general comment? if so yes, I have seen some shockers
[11:22] <eroomde> Analog and Linear parts have good datasheets
[11:23] <eroomde> i generally prototype with thoser
[11:23] <eroomde> and TI often have some roughly equivlane tpart for much cheaper that i would use for a production run
[11:23] <eroomde> but the engineer cost is much higher
[11:23] <eroomde> as the documentation can be super ropey
[11:24] <eroomde> also linear gave Jim WIlliams to the world
[11:24] <eroomde> so i support them
[11:24] <eroomde> well, Linear and Jim WIlliams' parents did
[11:24] <day> well i started experimenting with a cc1125. and the datasheet sucks. then you need a software that lets you configure the registers, for that you need to accept a gazillion terms.... insane
[11:24] <eroomde> or maybe Jim Williams gave linear to the world
[11:24] <eroomde> meta
[11:24] <eroomde> more coffee time
[11:28] <gonzo_> I often have/cause the opposite prob to ed's rant.....
[11:29] <gonzo_> I understand microcontrollers, but when beiong told to just install this and call that, I ask why, how, what is really goingt on, what does it look like in meme
[11:29] <gonzo_> which causes annoyance to those trying to explain, as in their world it just is or just does
[11:30] <eroomde> trading understanding for speed and convenience
[11:30] <eroomde> the modern software house of cards
[11:30] <nickjohnson> Really? I usually find TI's datasheets to be pretty good
[11:30] <nickjohnson> Diodes' datasheets are pretty appalling
[11:30] <eroomde> there are some shockers nickjohnson - on some recent parts
[11:30] <nickjohnson> For all that I like PAM2401, its datasheet is a shocker
[11:31] <eroomde> and companies they've bought
[11:31] <nickjohnson> Incredibly brief, doesn't include a lot of important ino
[11:31] <nickjohnson> er, info
[11:31] Tiger^ (tygrys@moo.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[11:32] ibanezmatt13 (~ibanezmat@nat-0-163.soton.ac.uk) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[11:43] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[11:52] garymortimer (29a200e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
[11:56] <eroomde> day: just to go back to earlier, i would say that one could tool up to make pico-flight PCBS for about £100 non-recurring cost
[11:57] <eroomde> (oven, splatula, solderpaste)
[11:57] <day> eroomde: a ready to use board for 100gbp? that sounds rather expensive
[11:58] <eroomde> 1) no, read what i said
[11:58] <eroomde> 2) no
[11:58] <eroomde> you won't get a ready to use pico pcb for £100
[11:59] <day> ah, my bad
[11:59] <eroomde> and £100 would not be expensive for such a thing either
[11:59] Strykar (~wakkawakk@ left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[11:59] <day> for tooling up or one usable pcb?
[11:59] volapyk (~volapyk@gw.telia.dk) left irc:
[12:00] <day> for the tools i agree. but people who just want to try it dont want to buy tools that end up wasting space
[12:00] <eroomde> for tooling up, i.e. the non-recurring cost
[12:00] <eroomde> i could just copy and paste my first message again
[12:01] <eroomde> yes it's a lot if you just want to fly something once
[12:01] <eroomde> space-wise
[12:03] Ian_ (4d66af83@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[12:09] <eroomde> nickjohnson: arachnidster says:
[12:09] <eroomde> October 29, 2015 at 2:49 am
[12:09] <eroomde> I find it difficult to believe anyone would use an RPi to track a high altitude balloon.
[12:09] <eroomde> people do
[12:09] <nickjohnson> Oh dear, really?
[12:09] <eroomde> yes
[12:09] <eroomde> pi in the sky is one such project
[12:11] <eroomde> http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/
[12:14] <craag> The nice thing about it is the live images (ssdv)
[12:16] <eroomde> i agree, but note that ssdv was first flown on an atmega :)
[12:16] <craag> which people have been struggling to do on a microcontroller since uart cameras went out of fashion
[12:16] Strykar (~wakkawakk@ joined #highaltitude.
[12:44] Steffann_ (uid97872@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xdcrcqbolaiouzhj) joined #highaltitude.
[12:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PISKY - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PISKY
[12:48] <chris_99> i'm suprised at how expensive some of these cameras are that output JPEG
[12:49] <chris_99> ah theres ones which are a lot cheaper on aliexpress
[13:11] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.lazyleopard.org.uk) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[13:11] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.lazyleopard.org.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[13:15] Haxxa (~Harrison@CPE-124-189-147-51.sqcy1.win.bigpond.net.au) left irc: Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in
[13:16] Haxxa (~Harrison@CPE-124-189-147-51.sqcy1.win.bigpond.net.au) joined #highaltitude.
[13:27] fab4space (~fab4space@ joined #highaltitude.
[13:31] Davespice (~quassel@cpc68702-haye21-2-0-cust109.17-4.cable.virginm.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[13:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03jjjjjjjjjk_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=jjjjjjjjjk_chase
[13:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03f6gau_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=f6gau_chase
[13:40] Strykar (~wakkawakk@ left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[13:42] Strykar (~wakkawakk@ joined #highaltitude.
[13:54] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.lazyleopard.org.uk) left irc: Quit: Now QRT
[14:02] Nick change: Aleks -> Zeuss
[14:02] Nick change: Zeuss -> Aleks
[14:03] wmsi (4a4e5af6@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[14:03] wmsi (4a4e5af6@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Client Quit
[14:26] Ian_ (4d66af83@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[14:43] <Laurenceb> uh oh
[14:43] <Laurenceb> http://tracksoar.com/
[14:43] Action: Upu points at mbales (who isn't here)
[14:48] <eroomde> Laurenceb: have you been write-only on this channel for the last few weeks?
[14:48] <eroomde> this has come up like 427 times
[14:48] <Laurenceb> lol ok
[14:48] <eroomde> and the mailing list
[14:49] <Upu> mines going on sale next week anyway. Called Soartrack
[14:50] <Upu> but not using kickstarter so my cool is way down
[14:50] <Upu> should just do one for the marketing
[14:50] <Upu> target £0 because we are all ready making them
[15:03] Mission-Critical (~MissionCr@203-217-74-38.dyn.iinet.net.au) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[15:12] TIBS01 (tibs01@5751bf78.skybroadband.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[15:12] deepdesigns (~textual@66-90-136-117.static.grandenetworks.net) joined #highaltitude.
[15:17] MissionCritical (~MissionCr@unaffiliated/missioncritical) joined #highaltitude.
[15:23] Strykar (~wakkawakk@ left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[15:26] deepdesigns (~textual@66-90-136-117.static.grandenetworks.net) left irc: Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com
[15:27] Strykar (~wakkawakk@ joined #highaltitude.
[15:29] jubatus (~mIRC@unaffiliated/jubatus) joined #highaltitude.
[15:32] ipdove (~ipdove@interclub.plus.com) left irc: Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de
[15:39] TIBS01 (tibs01@5751bf78.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:49] jubatus (mIRC@unaffiliated/jubatus) left #highaltitude.
[15:52] stheory (~nic@ joined #highaltitude.
[15:53] TIBS01 (tibs01@5751bf78.skybroadband.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[15:58] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.lazyleopard.org.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[16:01] <Laurenceb> you might be interested in this eroomde http://www.google.com/patents/WO2004065332A2?cl=en
[16:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSL1685 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSL1685
[16:13] stheory (~nic@ left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[16:17] TIBS01 (tibs01@5751bf78.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:27] stheory (~nic@ joined #highaltitude.
[16:30] matt______ (62d24592@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[16:38] <eroomde> thanks Laurenceb
[16:38] <eroomde> just to help me out (at work), what is the interesting thing here?
[16:38] <Laurenceb> this is what I suspect Klima use in their rockets, and also what Estes are planning to use soon
[16:39] <Laurenceb> exhaust contains much more nitrogen and fewer solids
[16:40] <Laurenceb> wish I was better at chemistry
[16:40] <Laurenceb> the density matches and the solubility in water also
[16:40] <Laurenceb> there should be some proper tests for this tho
[16:53] bobsaget (~john@059149185193.ctinets.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03gaily01 _chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=gaily01%20_chase
[17:01] fab4space (~fab4space@ left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[17:07] ok1iuo (52908f20@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[17:08] jubatus (~mIRC@ joined #highaltitude.
[17:08] jubatus (~mIRC@ left irc: Changing host
[17:08] jubatus (~mIRC@unaffiliated/jubatus) joined #highaltitude.
[17:13] jubatus (mIRC@unaffiliated/jubatus) left #highaltitude.
[17:19] stheory (~nic@ left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[17:31] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[17:36] lunarmobile (~androirc@ joined #highaltitude.
[17:36] <lunarmobile> Evening
[17:38] Nick change: Chetic_ -> Chetic
[17:41] SA6BSS-Mike (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[17:44] SA6BSS (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:44] bobsaget (~john@059149185193.ctinets.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[17:45] lunarmobile (~androirc@ left irc: Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )
[17:46] Strykar (~wakkawakk@ left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[17:51] jubatus (~mIRC@ joined #highaltitude.
[17:51] jubatus (~mIRC@ left irc: Changing host
[17:51] jubatus (~mIRC@unaffiliated/jubatus) joined #highaltitude.
[17:56] jubatus (mIRC@unaffiliated/jubatus) left #highaltitude.
[18:14] ok1iuo (52908f20@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[18:15] jubatus (~mIRC@unaffiliated/jubatus) joined #highaltitude.
[18:31] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[18:37] mbales_ (~mbales@wsip-98-173-204-203.sb.sd.cox.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:39] jubatus (~mIRC@unaffiliated/jubatus) left irc: Quit: Read error: Connection reset by pear
[18:45] jcoxon (~jcoxon@ joined #highaltitude.
[18:46] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p5488962C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[18:47] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[18:53] Trieste (~Trieste@unaffiliated/trieste) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds
[18:54] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03AIRCOR-51 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AIRCOR-51
[18:55] Trieste (~Trieste@unaffiliated/trieste) joined #highaltitude.
[19:04] fab4space (~fab4space@AMontpellier-656-1-323-59.w90-28.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[19:09] DL1SGP (~felix64@dhcp16.signon3.dk.beevpn.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:21] fab4space (~fab4space@AMontpellier-656-1-323-59.w90-28.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Quit: Quitte
[19:21] fab4space2 (~fab4space@AMontpellier-656-1-323-59.w90-28.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #highaltitude.
[19:21] xfce2 (~xfce@cpe-85-10-26-137.dynamic.amis.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[19:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03f0gra_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=f0gra_chase
[19:24] jcoxon (~jcoxon@ left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[19:34] xfce (~xfce@cpe-85-10-26-137.dynamic.amis.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:34] Strykar (~wakkawakk@ joined #highaltitude.
[19:34] Nick change: xfce -> Guest51121
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/national-guard-shoot-crashed-blimp-help-it-deflate-n453981?cid=sm_tw&hootPostID=7b4287772ec43c227a159a67d528ea43
[19:40] <chris_99> haha, doesn't that seem a bit extreme
[19:41] es5nhc (~tarmo@108-40-71-217.sta.estpak.ee) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[19:50] infaddict (~infaddict@ left irc:
[19:55] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.
[19:55] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[20:01] Steffann_ (uid97872@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xdcrcqbolaiouzhj) left irc: Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
[20:12] mbales_ (~mbales@wsip-98-173-204-203.sb.sd.cox.net) left irc: Quit: mbales_
[20:14] mbales (~mbales@wsip-98-173-204-203.sb.sd.cox.net) joined #highaltitude.
[20:21] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) joined #highaltitude.
[20:25] <Chetic> how do I get the pi in the sky to take pictures?
[20:25] <Chetic> does it need a gps signal?
[20:25] <daveake> plug in camera / enable in raspi-config / enable in pisky.txt
[20:25] <daveake> ^ all above on the site
[20:26] <daveake> and no it doesn't need gps to do that
[20:26] <eroomde> you should design ovens daveake!
[20:26] <fsphil> hah
[20:27] <eroomde> a daveake oven wouldn;t have to have the clock set to turn on
[20:27] <daveake> would I get grilled more often?
[20:27] <eroomde> ho
[20:27] <eroomde> no just avoid stupid design decisions
[20:27] <daveake> :)
[20:28] <daveake> btw we'll be back at Sojo's in January - got tix for Chris Hadfield
[20:28] <Chetic> daveake: did that, and I aint gettin no pix
[20:29] <daveake> Well plug the camera in properly then
[20:29] <Chetic> well maybe I will
[20:29] Action: Chetic walks off angrily
[20:29] <daveake> it really is very very simple, and the default settings are for photos to get taken
[20:29] <eroomde> chris hadfield is at sojo?
[20:29] <Chetic> how often?
[20:29] <daveake> hah no at the theatre
[20:30] <eroomde> nice
[20:30] <daveake> but good excuse to go back to sojos
[20:30] <fsphil> he was at our local planetarium a while back. no music though
[20:30] <eroomde> yep
[20:30] <daveake> chetic you can set the rate - http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/index.php?id=configuration
[20:31] <Chetic> I can't see it on there
[20:32] michal_f (~michal_f@ joined #highaltitude.
[20:32] <michal_f> hi
[20:33] jcoxon (~jcoxon@ joined #highaltitude.
[20:33] <daveake> ah true, not documented yet
[20:33] <eroomde> greetings jcoxon
[20:34] <jcoxon> hey eroomde
[20:34] <daveake> It's image_period=<seconds>
[20:34] <daveake> def 60
[20:34] <daveake> That's for RTTY
[20:34] <daveake> For the full size images it's full_image_period=60
[20:40] <Chetic> awesome, thanks daveake
[20:50] <Chetic> when abouts is the camera led supposed to come on? I think it might be broken..
[20:50] <Chetic> it can't be _that_ hard to get the connector right
[20:50] <daveake> oh it can
[20:53] <Chetic> oh wait raspistill works
[20:53] <Chetic> maybe I just need to wait a minute
[20:55] <Chetic> actually I have clearly done that..
[21:13] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-149-7-236.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:18] Babs_ (522fe266@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[21:25] kinders (5d839b71@gateway/web/freenode/ip. joined #highaltitude.
[21:26] kinders (5d839b71@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Client Quit
[21:47] matt______ (62d24592@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Quit: Page closed
[21:57] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-149-7-236.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[22:06] amell (~amell@graveley.plus.com) left irc: Quit: amell
[22:08] BitEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[22:08] Nick change: SpeedEvil -> Guest27931
[22:08] Guest27931 (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[22:09] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-171-4-188.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:10] fab4space2 (~fab4space@AMontpellier-656-1-323-59.w90-28.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[22:23] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.lazyleopard.org.uk) left irc: Quit: Now QRT
[22:24] Lemml (andreas@p3E9C2BF1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[22:31] Nick change: BitEvil -> SpeedEvil
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> lol my mum was just on newsnight
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> damn I think this is a stock bbc film loop
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> heh
[22:34] Babs_ (522fe266@gateway/web/freenode/ip. left irc: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> - random clip of some old student union gathering
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[22:43] <Ian_> That couldn't have been yesterday Laurencab - Mum, famous by default, accident or design!
[23:04] <ulfr> https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t31.0-8/12194773_10206889835540657_3515653501653830367_o.jpg
[23:04] <ulfr> Prototyping and you can't find a saw...
[23:06] jarod (~jarod@ left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds
[23:06] jcoxon (~jcoxon@ left irc: Quit: Leaving
[23:08] jarod (~jarod@ joined #highaltitude.
[23:12] <Ian_> Prescision be damned :)
[23:13] jarod (~jarod@ left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> like on bob ross painting^^
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> If you want to cut board like that, just use any sharp point
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> draw it down the line of holes you want to cut several times on each side, and you get a very neat edge
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> carpet knife or so
[23:14] <Ian_> Keep sticking it out SpeedEvil, I think that ulfr has an answer :)
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> Literally any sharpish point.
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> A small flatblade screwdriver, ...
[23:16] <SpeedEvil> FR2 is shit
[23:16] <Ian_> My humerous point was too sharp.
[23:18] <Ian_> It's very convenient when you need to cut it with a sharp edge. FR4 and just sharp edge is frustrating.
[23:18] michal_f (~michal_f@ left irc: Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC
[23:19] <Ian_> or near impossible.
[23:19] jarod (~jarod@ joined #highaltitude.
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> if you also have a straight-edge, it can work
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> score and snap FR4 is _hard_
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> Score and snap veroboard FR2 is trivial
[23:20] <Ian_> Veroboard with gold flashed stripes is an improvement, but the holes are too big for most things today
[23:41] DL1SGP (~felix64@dhcp16.signon3.dk.beevpn.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
[23:42] Geoff-G8DHE-Lap (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[23:42] Geoff-G8DHE-Lap (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:42] DL1SGP (~felix64@dhcp15.signon1.dk.beevpn.com) joined #highaltitude.
[23:56] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p5488962C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Quit: Verlassend
[23:58] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[00:00] --- Fri Oct 30 2015