highaltitude.log.20151020

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[06:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03car_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=car_chase
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[07:22] <number10> adamgreig: nice martlet 2 pictures on flickr - did you get a video of the launch?
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[09:50] <Herman-PB0AHX> !flights
[09:50] <SpacenearUS> 03Herman-PB0AHX: There are no flights currently :(
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[10:36] <darsie> Let's wrap Earth including the atmosphere in a balloon and build space ports on it.
[10:39] <eroomde> someone with a giant space vacuum cleaner will come and try and steal our atmosphere
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[10:46] <RealBorg> hmm, interesting idea, something like a dyson sphere
[10:47] <RealBorg> would probably decay pretty uickly due to solar radiation, meteorites,...
[10:51] <darsie> Plastic would decay. Some silicone might be stable, or glass.
[10:51] <darsie> I thought of meteorites. They are probably a problem.
[10:53] <Laurenceb> darsie: actually that technique could be useful for asteroid diversion
[10:53] <Laurenceb> wrap asteroid in plastic and catch outgassing
[10:53] <Laurenceb> divert to some nozzles
[10:53] <darsie> Might work for comets, yeah.
[10:54] <RealBorg> I'd rather terraform mars or venus ;)
[10:55] <eroomde> it's a silly idea for earth
[10:55] <eroomde> i didn't realise we were being serious
[10:55] <eroomde> it's a silly idea
[10:55] <eroomde> what use is a space port on a layer of rubber at 30km
[10:56] <RealBorg> you could build an elevator to 30km
[10:56] <adamgreig> would make rockoons much easier ;)
[10:56] <eroomde> RealBorg: yes you could
[10:56] <eroomde> but why?
[10:57] <Laurenceb> on the topic of rockoons...
[10:57] Action: Laurenceb has some more Klima test firings
[10:57] <adamgreig> how's it going?
[10:57] <Laurenceb> sim now says 135km apogee
[10:57] <adamgreig> time to launch it for real then ;)
[10:58] <Laurenceb> I've rebored the nozzle, reduced the length of the motor and added a SLS nylon top bulkhead
[10:58] <Laurenceb> 72% mass fraction
[10:58] <Laurenceb> I'm currently ordering parts for a better ground test rig, just cuz I like overkill
[11:00] <eroomde> mmm but launch it at some point
[11:02] <Laurenceb> I'm still confused by potassium perchlorate
[11:02] <eroomde> it doesn't taste like the other artificial sweetners
[11:02] <eroomde> yes it is high in calories
[11:02] <Laurenceb> there is KCl on the nozzle, not sure if it condensed out of the exhaust then hit due to acceleration in throat
[11:03] <Laurenceb> or condensed due to the thermal mass of the nozzle
[11:03] <Laurenceb> simulation says the latter
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[11:04] <SpeedEvil> Are you counting the thermal impedence of the nozzle and Kcl?
[11:04] <Laurenceb> yes
[11:04] <SpeedEvil> Preheat the nozzle to 1400C. Plus is you don't need to light it
[11:05] <Laurenceb> I've sectioned a spent nozzle now and the thickness profile matched the thermal mass hypothesis
[11:05] <Laurenceb> heh
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[11:05] <Laurenceb> in which case spinning the rocket isnt going to change the behaviour too much, which is good news
[11:24] <Laurenceb> holy shit whyyyy
[11:24] <Laurenceb> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/strain-gauges/2356210/
[11:24] <Laurenceb> £65
[11:25] <adamgreig> strain gauges are expensive yo
[11:25] <adamgreig> £65 is cheap..
[11:38] <chris_99> is this to measure thrust, Laurenceb?
[11:43] <Laurenceb> yes
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[11:44] <eroomde> thrust on a stand?
[11:44] <chris_99> i thought strain gauge load cells where pretty cheap
[11:44] <Laurenceb> yes
[11:45] <Laurenceb> ideally itd be good to get chamber pressure too
[11:46] <eroomde> possibly trickier
[11:46] <eroomde> i'd get something with mounting holes and so on for a test rig
[11:46] <eroomde> http://www.omega.co.uk/pptst/LCM305.html
[11:46] <eroomde> though actually you won't like the price
[11:46] <eroomde> but omega are a good bet generally
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[11:49] <eroomde> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/load-cells/4438134/
[11:49] <Laurenceb> going to check my junk drawer
[11:51] <chris_99> yo can get similar ones on fleabay for a lot less ;) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tedea-Huntleigh-Single-Point-Load-Cells-5kg-high-precision-Model-1006-/272016521738?hash=item3f5572ba0a:g:CrgAAOSwHjNV9tiq
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[11:52] <chris_99> unless it's fake i gues
[11:53] <eroomde> nah that's a fine price used
[11:53] <eroomde> that'd do nicely
[11:54] <chris_99> aha cool, i bought a 100g one which seemed to work fine
[11:55] <Laurenceb> thats nice, thanks for the link
[11:58] <chris_99> i think http://uk.farnell.com/analog-devices/ad7714ynz/ic-24bit-adc-s-delta-signal-cond/dp/1438541 was the ADC i used with one, which has a PGA built in, if that's any help
[11:58] <chris_99> although maybe you need a high sample rate for a rocket
[11:59] <eroomde> nah
[12:00] <eroomde> this is totally common-or-garden instrumentation amp stuff
[12:00] <Laurenceb> yeah I'll use inst amp and datalogger from my PhD
[12:00] <Laurenceb> in fact no - i'll stick it in as a thermocouple
[12:00] <adamgreig> even certification tests for commerical rocket motors are like 1kS/s
[12:01] <chris_99> aha interesting
[12:01] <Laurenceb> yeah theres no certification data from Klima
[12:01] <Laurenceb> I only have random forum posters
[12:01] <adamgreig> check out the CUSF test stand ;) https://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/19084126721
[12:02] <Laurenceb> wow nice
[12:02] <chris_99> cool!
[12:02] <Laurenceb> what motor is that?
[12:02] <adamgreig> our hybrid
[12:02] <adamgreig> this is it just spitting fire to look cool for the camera
[12:02] <adamgreig> no nozzle fitted, no actual thrust
[12:02] <Laurenceb> yeah was going to say
[12:02] <Laurenceb> ok
[12:02] <eroomde> are we sharing pictures of rocket test stantds? :p
[12:02] <adamgreig> haha
[12:02] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:02] <adamgreig> go on then :P
[12:03] <Laurenceb> mine will prob be a G clamp and some random bits of junk
[12:03] <adamgreig> ours measures off-axis thrust and moments which is nice
[12:03] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:03] <adamgreig> but is currently down a strain gauge after the last test went south
[12:04] <eroomde> i probably shouldn't actually
[12:04] <eroomde> but i do have something more your scale Laurenceb
[12:04] <eroomde> might be useful
[12:04] <eroomde> one sec
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[12:05] <eroomde> https://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/7042431651/in/album-72157629368148642/
[12:05] <eroomde> early bodge but see the platform load cell
[12:05] <eroomde> motor just cantilevered off
[12:05] <Laurenceb> ah yeah
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[12:08] <adamgreig> bet that was fun
[12:09] <chris_99> does that motor use N2O+..., eroomde?
[12:09] <eroomde> yes
[12:10] <eroomde> that was the first test of the gyroc biprop
[12:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03kuree_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=kuree_chase
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[12:13] <eroomde> what does the top cap look like Laurenceb?
[12:14] <Laurenceb> ok the Klima?
[12:14] <Laurenceb> *on
[12:14] <Laurenceb> just a SLS nylon isogrid thing
[12:15] <Laurenceb> I'm going to build it into the nosecone next - chamber pressure appears to be of order 1MPa
[12:16] <eroomde> so you could put a tap in basically
[12:16] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:16] <eroomde> fine
[12:16] <eroomde> so you can get thrust and pc
[12:16] <eroomde> you can calc isp
[12:17] <Laurenceb> well I can work out ISP from thrust and mass change, but I'm interested in scaling with nozzle design and air pressure
[12:18] <adamgreig> presumably you'd want to test your nozzle modifications at the relevant ambient pressure?
[12:18] <adamgreig> need a big and fireproof vacuum chamber huh :P
[12:18] <Laurenceb> lol ideally
[12:19] <Laurenceb> Leo has a vacuum chamber for testing ignition
[12:19] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/kvfDqSS.jpg my phone is broken
[12:19] <adamgreig> lol
[12:19] <Laurenceb> but thats a fired motor - its very similar to Estes
[12:19] <adamgreig> seems a bit small to go to space :p
[12:20] <eroomde> you could do a venturi thing
[12:20] <eroomde> firing into a tube
[12:20] <Laurenceb> 17mm OD
[12:20] <eroomde> it's a cheap way of getting some altitude
[12:20] <Laurenceb> yeah I might try that
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[12:42] <Laurenceb> currently wondering how to attach the igniter
[12:42] <Laurenceb> its rather heavy now at ~2.5grams :-/
[12:46] <chris_99> what voltage/current does the igniter require?
[12:51] <Laurenceb> dunno yet
[12:51] <Laurenceb> I'm aiming for ~1A, 2V
[12:51] <Laurenceb> the problem is that the igniter unit might not drop off cleanly
[12:52] <RealBorg> Laurenceb, what about an aerospike engine / nozzle?
[12:52] <Laurenceb> I was contemplating connecting it with a flexible coupling, but thats probably too much of a headache
[12:52] <Laurenceb> RealBorg: why exactly?
[12:52] <Laurenceb> this is for a rockoon
[12:52] <RealBorg> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerospike_engine
[12:55] <eroomde> he knows what one is i think
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[12:58] <Laurenceb> http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee343/haggis95/258Troll_spray.jpg
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[13:46] <fsphil> heh, Forbidden Category "Pornography"
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[13:49] <infaddict> afternoon all. anybody ever tried to receive in ear monitor (IEM) stuff from live concerts? looks like its on 450Mhz up to 959.99Mhz. seems the pros have different band to amateur.
[13:51] <infaddict> or any knowledge on how they broadcast the IEM's inside a gig. presume its analog radio with no encryption as people have done it before.
[13:52] <fsphil> lowish power FM most likely
[13:53] <infaddict> hey fsphil
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[13:54] <infaddict> here's an off the shelf IEM system.. tech data sheet seems to suggest different ranges available.
[13:54] <infaddict> http://en-uk.sennheiser.com/wireless-microphone-live-monitoring-system-ew-300-iem-g3
[13:55] <infaddict> so lots of amateur bands use this type of stuff. really not sure if pro bands need something different but i'm gonna try and find out with my AirSpy ;-)
[13:56] <infaddict> as fsphil suggests, tech sheets says FM
[13:56] <cm13g09> infaddict: I'd be inclined to agree with fsphil
[13:56] <fsphil> what type of stuff?
[13:56] <infaddict> MPX stereo
[13:56] <cm13g09> having been involved with the theatre industry before
[13:57] <infaddict> i mean amateur bands (pubs/clubs) use off the shelf IEM kits like the link i posted
[13:57] <cm13g09> yeah
[13:57] <fsphil> ah
[13:57] <infaddict> but unsure if pro touring bands (stadiums etc) use the same or have their own frequencies etc
[13:57] <infaddict> e.g. licenced bands
[13:57] <fsphil> amateur bands can't be used for commercial use
[13:57] <infaddict> mmm indeed
[13:57] <adamgreig> all likely to have licensed bands
[13:57] <infaddict> so wonder which bands pro bands use
[13:57] <adamgreig> wireless microphones tend to be aiui
[13:57] <adamgreig> still likely to be fm
[13:57] <cm13g09> fsphil: he meant amateur music bands
[13:58] <cm13g09> but yes
[13:58] <kswtch> neither can they be used for pubs/clubs. But I think you mean the free bands
[13:58] <day> then again, as a manufacturer you cant control the usage
[13:58] <kswtch> cm13g09: ah sry
[13:58] <fsphil> gotcha
[13:58] <infaddict> yep sry using the term "bands" here interchangably with "musicians" oops
[13:58] <fsphil> lol
[13:58] <cm13g09> ah the joys of the English language.....
[13:59] <infaddict> my interest in this is wanting good copies of guitar alone btw
[13:59] <craag> You can hire dedicated frequency space specifically for events iirc
[13:59] <infaddict> the guitar IEM is broadcast on its own channel allowing me to hear perfectly what he is playing
[13:59] <day> cm13g09: James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect :p
[13:59] <fsphil> just need to find the frequency
[14:00] <infaddict> yer so guessing AirSpy probably has it covered - just need to rock up with that a laptop and antenna and dig around!
[14:00] <infaddict> depends on signal strength whether i could RX outside the venue
[14:00] <fsphil> yeah it's unlikely to be outside the airspy range
[14:00] <craag> find a list of all the mic channels before so you can scan through
[14:00] <cm13g09> craag: ping
[14:01] <craag> I doubt you'll get it reliably outside the venue
[14:01] <craag> cm13g09: poong
[14:01] <craag> (given the issues I've had with the receiver behind a single wall)
[14:01] <cm13g09> craag: PM
[14:02] <infaddict> also pondering whats to stop some joker broadcasting their own IEM to clash/interefer on stage!
[14:02] <infaddict> apart from its likely illegal
[14:02] <fsphil> security :)
[14:02] <infaddict> hehe
[14:02] <fsphil> but not a thing really
[14:02] <infaddict> wonder if they'd spot me with a 6' Yagi
[14:02] <mfa298> I did manage a couple of re-inforced walls with the license free mics once, but also seen issues with them within a church (with lots of open space)
[14:03] <mfa298> although that's mostly vhf stuff - I think most of the commercial bands are more into UHF
[14:03] <fsphil> the wireless mic used at ukhas2015 was in the 800mhz range
[14:03] <infaddict> yer so these stadium gigs are like 100m between stage and mid stage. guessing they have repeaters perhaps.
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[14:03] <craag> stadium would have receivers on the stages I'd guess
[14:03] <infaddict> yep
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[14:03] <mfa298> they may well have the recievers at the side of the stage, digital snake these days is just a bit of cat5
[14:04] <infaddict> found this but not sure how reliable or up to date the freqs are: http://www.juicesound.co.uk/channel70freq.pdf
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[14:04] <infaddict> looks like JFMG licence out freq here in UK for example
[14:04] <infaddict> £75 a year. not bad ;-)
[14:05] <craag> mfa298: Yep that's what I meant
[14:05] <craag> no more analog multicore \o/
[14:06] <craag> And now you can lighting down the *same* cat5, as opposed to making very sure the cables are nowhere near each other!
[14:06] <craag> *put lighting control
[14:06] <mfa298> I think we were typing at the same time
[14:07] <gonzo_> from mem, 175 and 868meg are avail licence exempt. There are some licenced ones at 200-odd meg and possibly 600 (but I recall there being some upset that this was being changed.)
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[14:08] <gonzo_> then there are lots of program making spectrum that can he hired
[14:08] <infaddict> what type of antenna is best for this stuff - depends on freq of course but got to be inconspicious too haha
[14:08] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[14:09] <gonzo_> I did have loan of a long range wireless mike, from a local radio station. That was 60-odd meg.
[14:09] <craag> little log-periodic would work nicely
[14:09] <craag> (as you don't know the freq)
[14:09] <infaddict> mmm
[14:10] <gonzo_> the most nasty VCO thing that was actually sensitive to proximity to the antenna. So they had sto get an eng to sit on the rx and try and follow the drift
[14:12] <infaddict> thx guys, not sure i can find courage to take all the expensive kit inside gig and risk it getting damaged or seized. certainly up for trying it right outside during soundcheck. will let you know.
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[14:19] <gonzo_> I did wonder if there was a move to digital modulation... A quick google found some in the 2.4gig band
[14:19] <gonzo_> one had the balls to claim "The signal transmission in the 2.4GHz range is particularly stable and has little trouble with interference"
[14:19] <infaddict> mmm gonzo_ that was my worry if they'd gone digital
[14:20] <infaddict> i do remember the digital switchover causing issues on mics/iems
[14:21] <gonzo_> mopst of the probs were due to the mic freqs being in the spectrum that was being sold off after tv going digital
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[14:21] <gonzo_> commercial users would not really see much of an issue, as they prob replace their mics in the changeover period.
[14:22] <gonzo_> It was am-dram, churches etc whith low budgets who would have issues
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[14:23] <Sp3ktator> Hi
[14:24] <Sp3ktator> I want to know how i can buy a HAB
[14:24] <Sp3ktator> Please, if somebody could help me...
[14:25] <daveake> sure you can buy a kit
[14:25] <daveake> but it'll probably all go wrong
[14:26] <daveake> Start by reading this -- http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1732
[14:27] <Sp3ktator> I can't found HAB of 1.5kg or more :/
[14:27] <UpuWork> do you mean the actual balloon ?
[14:28] <Sp3ktator> (Thanks 4 the link)
[14:29] <UpuWork> Do you mean the balloon Sp3ktator ?
[14:29] <Sp3ktator> Yes
[14:29] <UpuWork> http://www.randomengineering.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
[14:29] <daveake> You can get 1.6 - 4kg latex balloons easily enough
[14:32] <Sp3ktator> Thanks
[14:32] <infaddict> usually the balloon size is the last thing you might choose (depends on many factors of your payload and weather)
[14:33] <Sp3ktator> That is what i was looking for
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[14:35] <Sp3ktator> Now i'm just recovering information in order to propose my project to my friends (and study if it is feasible)
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[14:35] <infaddict> the burst calculator at bottom of daveake link allows you to predict what might happen with different size balloons, payload weight etc
[14:36] <Sp3ktator> Aja
[14:36] <mfa298> Sp3ktator: you may want to look at what you really need to lift up on a balloon and see whether a smaller balloon is better (makes things cheaper both in terms of the balloon needed and gas required)
[14:37] <Sp3ktator> My final objetive is put a Sat in the space
[14:38] <Sp3ktator> Using a balloon first and jets at 36km
[14:38] <Sp3ktator> (Or something else)
[14:41] <Sp3ktator> Did anyone something similar?
[14:41] <infaddict> by "space" what do you mean?
[14:44] <infaddict> most amateur HAB's only go to "near space"... usually between 30k to 40k ish in altitude before bursting. from memory, space itself doesnt start until about 100km altitude
[14:44] <RealBorg> 50km according to FAA, 100km according to international agreements
[14:45] <RealBorg> Sp3ktator, jets?
[14:45] <Sp3ktator> I'm think in 300km or 400km
[14:46] <chris_99> Laurenceb, out of interest do you intend to launch before the balloon pops?
[14:46] <Sp3ktator> Yes chris
[14:46] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:47] <Sp3ktator> One idea is use a H-balloon and then use the H like comb
[14:47] <RealBorg> Sp3ktator, how do you plan to get beyond 40km?
[14:47] <Sp3ktator> I'm just planing
[14:48] Action: RealBorg too
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[14:53] <adamgreig> Sp3ktator: how do you plan to use jets at 36km? there's almost no atmospheric oxygen
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[14:54] <chris_99> i was wondering how jets would work too
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[14:55] <Sp3ktator> I want to say rocket engine
[14:55] <adamgreig> that is less implausible but I suspect you will find it quite challenging to get to 300km
[14:56] <RealBorg> once you passed the atmosphere it's only a question of impulse...
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[14:57] <adamgreig> impulse, mass, the law, etc
[14:57] <adamgreig> if you want a satellite then orbit is also required and that continues to complicate matters
[14:57] <adamgreig> still just a question of impulse I suppose :P
[14:58] <Laurenceb> I dont have the energy to get to 300km
[14:59] <Laurenceb> or contribute to this discussion
[14:59] <chris_99> heh
[14:59] <adamgreig> haha nice, 10/10
[14:59] <adamgreig> where did you leave that spray Laurenceb...
[14:59] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[15:00] <chris_99> to get a rocket into orbit, don't you need to angle the rocket during flight
[15:00] <adamgreig> yes
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[15:00] <adamgreig> that's not really the hard part though, as it goes
[15:00] <chris_99> oh, what's the hard part
[15:01] <adamgreig> probably logistics and supply chain :P
[15:01] <chris_99> heh
[15:01] <infaddict> and cost
[15:01] <adamgreig> cost's a good one
[15:01] <adamgreig> the legal, regulatory and insurance aspects
[15:01] <adamgreig> looking after your ground crew
[15:02] <adamgreig> metallurgy's up there I guess
[15:02] <Laurenceb> on a sane note, yesterday I was reading about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_4S
[15:03] <Laurenceb> very interesting design - spin stabilised upper stages with yo-yo despin and clip on motor respin using a horizon sensor
[15:03] <adamgreig> oh interesting
[15:03] <adamgreig> that is nice
[15:03] <Laurenceb> to realign the spin axis
[15:03] <Laurenceb> I had been thinking of using a magnet when I looked at n-prize designs
[15:03] <Laurenceb> but thats much nicer
[15:03] <chris_99> you're not going to do the yo-yo thing, or are you?
[15:03] <Laurenceb> not on my rockoon
[15:04] <Laurenceb> GoFast had a really nice despin
[15:04] <eroomde> it is worth noting that the scout rockets could somewhat routinely put satellites into orbit with a paper-tape guidance computer
[15:04] <eroomde> i remember this whenever i think i need a bigger microcontroller
[15:04] <Laurenceb> heh
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> You can do polar orbit with a field line follower
[15:06] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[15:07] <cm13g09> I have some bad news for you Mike
[15:07] <cm13g09> there be no more Connection Vouchers
[15:07] <cm13g09> for now
[15:07] <craag> :(
[15:07] <mfa298> :(
[15:09] Action: craag considers throwing fibre into the median of the M3 on the way home..
[15:11] <MikeUoN> eroomde, do you know if those computers had a specific name or anything?
[15:14] <eroomde> Frank
[15:14] <eroomde> (no, don't know)
[15:18] <MikeUoN> oh, lol :P
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[15:42] <michal_f> is there any windows viewer for SSDV files ?
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[16:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> michal_f, SSDV files are just Jpeg's so just about anything can display them.
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[17:17] <Lunar_Lander> hello :)
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[17:28] <MikeUoN> hi Lunar_Lander
[17:28] <Lunar_Lander> today we talked about the current status
[17:29] <Lunar_Lander> all looks good so far
[17:29] <Lunar_Lander> next thing is the testing of all devices together
[17:30] <MikeUoN> current status of what? :O
[17:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Tb4bao_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Tb4bao_chase
[17:32] <Lunar_Lander> the balloon project
[17:32] <MikeUoN> oh cool
[17:32] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[17:32] <MikeUoN> When do you expect to launch?
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> middle of november
[17:33] <MikeUoN> thumbs up
[17:34] <MikeUoN> Has anyone here used the BOC "balloon gas" to fill their balloons?
[17:35] <MikeUoN> I would presume it was helium, but am wondering what they may have added to call it balloon gas and not helium
[17:35] <MikeUoN> Unless it is some marketing decision...
[17:35] <russss> I think most people use balloon gas.
[17:35] <russss> it's just to do with the purity I think
[17:36] <MikeUoN> Yeah, fair one.
[17:36] <MikeUoN> thanks russss
[17:37] <russss> there are much purer grades of helium which get used for gas chromatography and other such amusements
[17:38] <MikeUoN> yeah
[17:40] <MikeUoN> wasnt sure if it was something that was drastically impure
[17:40] <MikeUoN> if others use it then it will do for me :)
[17:42] Nick change: michal_f -> michal_f_WRK
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[18:03] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> MikeUoN, the He we get from the Uni (i.e. for the project, for the other purposes they use LHe mostly) is about 95%
[18:29] <MikeUoN> cool
[18:30] <MikeUoN> Yeah, thought it would be wise to check, especially as they want product numbers and delivery charges
[18:30] <MikeUoN> Why they dont just tag it on to the weekly deliveries I see of lorries packed with cylinders around campus, I don't know...
[18:32] <russss> BOC are not geared up for small scale direct delivery. If you can find a reseller you might get a better deal
[18:32] <russss> They'd really rather ship you a truckload of gas than a cylinder or two.
[18:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EOS_T2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EOS_T2
[18:38] <craag> Lunar_Lander: :)
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> hi craag :)
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[18:44] <MikeUoN> russss indeed, which is why it seems strange that the uni are asking me for postage details, when they buy stuff in bulk themselves
[18:44] <lily1212> Hey. Maybe someone has an article on the navigation systems of airships or balloons from 70 years ago ? Thank you
[18:46] <lily1212> I meant hot air balloon
[18:47] <MikeUoN> Too late to use a sextant?
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[18:51] <chris_99> hmm someone took a hot air balloon to 21,027 m, i wonder how high they could theoretically go
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> you get lift as long as the density of the lifting gas is smaller then of the air outside
[18:53] <chris_99> mm
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[18:59] <RealBorg> hot air has a lower lifting capacity than he or even h
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> lily1212, in terms of navigation, there was no real way to navigate a balloon because it was pushed by the wind, so you could only go where the wind would go
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> and in the 1940s (=70 years ago) the modern hot-air balloon wasn't really around
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> hot-air balloons were a bit forgotten until the 1960s I think
[19:10] <bertrik> it would be nice if you could fill a balloon with a vacuum :)
[19:11] <chris_99> that, it would :)
[19:12] <chris_99> although i don't think you could call it filling ;)
[19:15] <chris_99> didn't someone create a metal like aerogel recently, wonder if you could use something sort of like that
[19:21] <chris_99> awh 'Unfortunately,, even the lightest aerogels, even if evacuated or backfilled with helium, would be too heavy to float in air, especially if laminated to seal the outer edges of the monolith. However, a helium-backfilled aerogel can be made to float if dropped into an aquarium filled with xenon gas.'
[19:21] <Laurenceb> damn no ignitor for me
[19:21] <Laurenceb> I was trying match heads and MEPIC initiators
[19:21] <Laurenceb> doesnt look like there is enough energy
[19:22] <chris_99> :( can't you use a bigass battery on the balloon?
[19:22] <Laurenceb> bigass??
[19:22] <Laurenceb> of big ass
[19:22] <Laurenceb> I need the ignition onboard the rocket with the current design
[19:22] <Laurenceb> only that seems to be impossible
[19:23] <chris_99> sorry i'm confused, i thought you'd have a battery on the payload with electronics to detonate the rocket
[19:23] <Laurenceb> not any more
[19:23] <chris_99> oh, why not?
[19:23] <Laurenceb> I've rediseigned it since the conference
[19:24] <Laurenceb> as the spin system proved to be impossible to make work
[19:24] <Laurenceb> now I'm one step down the road but just as stuck
[19:24] <Laurenceb> its impossible ot light it
[19:24] <chris_99> so you're saying the battery to ignite the rocket, is in the rocket itself?
[19:27] <Laurenceb> its a supercap, and yes
[19:28] <chris_99> why can't you have the battery outside the rocket and just the pyrotechnic igniter thing in the engine
[19:28] <Laurenceb> as the rocket is launched off the side of the payload using its own spin up motor
[19:28] <Laurenceb> this part works really well in tests
[19:29] <Laurenceb> but I can't get the igniters I need
[19:30] <Laurenceb> maybe I should email vishay
[19:30] <Laurenceb> I'm using one of these atm http://www.vishay.com/docs/49691/49691_pt0088.pdf
[19:31] <chris_99> neat, never seen them before
[19:32] <chris_99> what do you mean by spin up motor btw, does that mean you're using >1 motor
[19:32] <Laurenceb> apart from the fact that they are very low energy
[19:32] <Laurenceb> yeah
[19:32] <Laurenceb> I've gtg, bbl
[19:32] <chris_99> toodles
[19:45] <MikeUoN> is the problem storing enough energy, or getting rid of it quickly?
[19:46] <MikeUoN> within the supercap
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[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> brb
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[19:54] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DL1NBR-11 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL1NBR-11
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[20:04] <Babs_> ping upu
[20:04] <Upu> yo
[20:05] <Babs_> pm
[20:05] <eroomde> the doves fly south in vladivostok in winter, they say
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[20:07] <Babs_> eroomde - this isn't the 'Allo 'Allo IRC room
[20:09] <michal_f> I'm getting different predictions every day :/
[20:09] <michal_f> half of them are straight into airport
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[23:44] <Evidlo> Does anyone have recommendations for solutions for a 2 way communications system + tracking system for a balloon?
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> Where are you, and how high?
[23:46] <Evidlo> Indiana, eventually 160k feet. For now, around 100k
[23:46] <Evidlo> I know it will be costly. This is a large project
[23:48] <Evidlo> At least the part about 160k. From what I've gathered, 90-110k feet is a common altitude.
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> 160000 is almost impossible.
[23:53] <Evidlo> how impossible is that?
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[23:54] <SpeedEvil> That's bang on ~.5g/m^3
[23:54] <Evidlo> financially impossible? too large of a balloon?
[23:54] <SpeedEvil> Yes, with commonly available balloons
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> https://ukhas.org.uk/general:uk_records
[23:57] <Evidlo> Are most of those balloon homemade, or commercial?
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> At a quarter of the density of the record achieved, you will need custom balloons.
[23:57] <SpeedEvil> 'zero pressure' can reach this altitude - but it's not going to be cheap
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> Tehre are no common commercially available sources that will sell to hobbiests.
[23:59] <SpeedEvil> Why 160, not 120k?
[23:59] <Evidlo> Actually, I said 100k
[00:00] --- Wed Oct 21 2015