highaltitude.log.20151017

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[01:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0316 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
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[04:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5ZM_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5ZM_chase
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[05:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HORUSLORA - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HORUSLORA
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[06:49] <Darkside> anyone here have experience with the Pawan balloons?
[06:49] <Darkside> just wondering how reliable they are in burst diameter, as compared to the hwoyees
[07:01] <jcoxon> i haven't used them
[07:01] <jcoxon> i'm not sure they are as good as hwoyee
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[07:19] <SM0ULC> K6RPT-11 arriving in Japan!
[07:22] <jcoxon> yeah i saw that this morning, awesome
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[07:25] <SA6BSS> another 3 days for it to pass over pacific
[07:27] <SA6BSS> hunting season for moose now, radio channels is full on the 155Mhz band
[07:27] <jcoxon> :-D
[07:28] <SA6BSS> testing my new sdrplay :)
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[07:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03YO3FVR-7_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YO3FVR-7_chase
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[08:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03S1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S1
[08:46] Nick change: priyesh_ -> priyesh
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[11:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03S3 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S3
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[12:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA5HND-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA5HND-1
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[12:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 031-614-357-2855_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=1-614-357-2855_chase
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[13:40] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[13:40] <Lunar_Lander> hope all are well :)
[13:41] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[13:50] <astrobiologist> afternoon all
[13:50] <astrobiologist> does anybody have a high tension, low current supply? (up to 1.8kv say, but no more than 1ma)
[13:55] <Lunar_Lander> for what?
[13:56] <astrobiologist> the guy who sold me my vacuum capacitor came back to me with some late tech advice - vac capacitors stored for a while unused apparently develop uneven spots on the telescopic cylinders inside them
[13:57] <astrobiologist> these could short out at less than the rated voltage, resulting in pitting. apparently the solution is to break the capacitor in gently at high voltage very limited ampeage
[13:57] <astrobiologist> this gently rounds off the high points without pitting
[13:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9QOV-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9QOV-11
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[14:02] <SpeedEvil> astrobiologist: what for?
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ultra-high-voltage-pulse-generator-super-arc-pulse-ignition-coil-module-1000-KV-/262037068436?hash=item3d02a05a94:g:8YoAAOSwMmBV669a
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[14:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AGGIE-3 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AGGIE-3
[14:05] <astrobiologist> 1 million volts???? I only need 1.8kv! ;-)
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> That's ebay a million.
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> I suspect it's more like 20kV tops
[14:07] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1000-Alkaline-1-5V-Button-Cell-Batteries-AG12-LR43-386-/280625430985?hash=item41569441c9:g:h5IAAOxyeZNTWSJF
[14:09] <astrobiologist> how much do 1000 coin battery holders cost though? ;-)
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> 5m of hosepipe
[14:10] <Laurenceb_> lol
[14:10] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[14:11] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> More seriously - what for. In principle a microwave oven transformer will easily give you 2kV, and you can then add a large resistor
[14:12] <astrobiologist> it's for reconditioning a vacuum capacitor. if you could let me have your email, I will send you the details. it can only be 1ma
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> 2M 2kV resistor, and done
[14:15] <astrobiologist> I would prefer not to die by accident
[14:17] <astrobiologist> the irony is that a true 1ma 2kv supply would be harmless, it takes 10ma or so to stop your heart for instance
[14:18] <Laurenceb_> dont you work for crick institute?
[14:18] <Laurenceb_> surely you could find a suitable power supply?
[14:19] <astrobiologist> I need to build up the voltage bit by bit apparently... if I can't find a suitable supply then I might use the cap and cross my fingers or ask to send it back
[14:19] <Laurenceb_> there are off the shelf current limited supplies that run off mains and are nice and safe
[14:19] <Laurenceb_> just expensive
[14:19] <astrobiologist> laurenceb_ hmmm, maybe the electron microscopes have something like this, but I'd never be allowed to play with them
[14:20] <Laurenceb_> you should order one if you have an electronicsy lab
[14:20] <astrobiologist> most molecular biologists treat their equipment like expensive black boxes and have staggeringly little interest in how they work
[14:20] <Laurenceb_> useful bit of kit, prob needs to be kept under lock and key to stop undergrads.whatever killing themselves
[14:26] <astrobiologist> I wish I did have an electronics lab, but unfortunately not. it is roboticsy on a good day
[14:26] <astrobiologist> so, do any of you have access to such a supply?
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> I do have plans for a 0-100kV 0-10mA supply.
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> But alas, plans only
[14:28] <Lunar_Lander> side question
[14:28] <Lunar_Lander> could you use the various multiplication circuits for something like that?
[14:28] <Lunar_Lander> C-W multiplier for example
[14:29] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[14:30] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Panasonic-Z606Y6Y40BP-Y4FFZZ000BP-Microwave-Inverter-PCB-Circuit-Board-/281673324123?hash=item419509d65b - for example.
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> This outputs ~30khz@4kV or so.
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> this is damn near ideal for a CW multiplier.
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> (well, modulo diode speed, which is a bit annoying)
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> I think with a bit of waveshaping going in you can use 1n4007's
[14:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[14:33] <astrobiologist> interesting, didn't know about CW multipliers before
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> And the above would get you to 100kV in only 25 stages. And at 30khz, the capacitance needed is fairly minimal
[14:34] <SpeedEvil> (please note, the above will kill you before you see it, never mind looking at it)
[14:34] <astrobiologist> yes indeed, I really don't want to die accidentally
[14:34] <astrobiologist> 1.8kv at 1ma is all I need
[14:35] <astrobiologist> maybe the guy will give me a refund, or he could find out how much the cap is derated
[14:35] <astrobiologist> some officionados say that max volts in loop antennae are lower than theoretically predicted
[14:36] <adamgreig> hopefully you're not putting volts in antennae
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/FS1ME-TP/FS1ME-TPMSTR-ND/2345534 - actually - 500ns diodes are cheap
[14:36] <astrobiologist> Although ham colleagues with WonderLoop etc have told me of having to send their loops back under guarantee repeatedly because of the cap burning out - despite only 10w
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[14:37] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Van-De-Graaff-Generator-By-Artec-Make-Your-Own-Static-Electricity-/191511663713?hash=item2c96fc1461:g:WX0AAOSwZjJU33br
[14:40] <astrobiologist> magloops develop much higher volts as I understand it
[14:40] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[14:40] <astrobiologist> here is what my 4m loop is predicted to develop - at 5w
[14:41] <astrobiologist> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRS7YQAWcAAjVz-.png:large
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[14:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AGGIE-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AGGIE-1
[14:52] <astrobiologist> catch you all later and thanks
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[15:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AGGIE-2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AGGIE-2
[15:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG5AO-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5AO-11
[15:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NV2Z-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NV2Z-11
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[15:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ARY1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ARY1
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[15:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA7NSR-8 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA7NSR-8
[16:00] <Lunar_Lander> ah raspberry pi newspaper :)
[16:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA7NSR-9 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA7NSR-9
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[16:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA7NSR-13 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA7NSR-13
[16:09] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DL1NBR-11 after 036 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL1NBR-11
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[16:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA7NSR-14 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA7NSR-14
[16:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA7NSR-15 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA7NSR-15
[16:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA7NSR-6 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA7NSR-6
[16:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA7NSR-7 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA7NSR-7
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[17:06] <fsphil> the invasion begins
[17:07] <eroomde> we periodically post this here for hygenic purposes http://spacecraft.ssl.umd.edu/akins_laws.html
[17:08] <Lunar_Lander> number 28 is great
[17:13] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
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[17:29] Nick change: Steffann -> Steffanx
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[17:54] <PE2BZ> Good evening. Sorry to wake you all up.... I have a non HAB related radio question: Is anyone familiair with a FM telemetry protocol which uses tones @ 1200, 1800 and 2400 Hz ?
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[18:12] <Laurenceb_> 11 is very true
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[18:13] <Laurenceb_> also lol @ 20
[18:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KJ4TDM-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ4TDM-1
[18:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03yl3gbc_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=yl3gbc_chase
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[19:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD0NGV-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0NGV-11
[19:37] Nick change: KyleYankan -> MrMeseeks
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[20:16] <eroomde> Ian_: that honey is wonderful. thank you.
[20:23] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: do you know of any igniters with <3mm outer diameter?
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> N28B are slightly too big :-/
[20:26] <eroomde> hmm unsure
[20:26] <eroomde> not off the top of my head
[20:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ka7nsr_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ka7nsr_chase
[20:29] <Laurenceb_> think I'm going to have to make some
[20:29] <Laurenceb_> I found the Klima igniters work well for Estes motors
[20:29] <Laurenceb_> much better quality construction too
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> Cesaroni tried to simplify their paperwork :-/
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> these things ship with Pro24 reloads http://www.sunwardhobbies.ca/content/mini-head-j-tek-igniters-now-available
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> but arent approved for export on their own
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> ok thanks anyway
[20:38] <eroomde> i'll ask on monday
[20:38] <eroomde> james might know something
[20:39] <Laurenceb_> ok thanks
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> looking for an igniter for Klimas that will run off 2.5v
[20:47] <eroomde> klimas?
[20:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5QI_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5QI_chase
[20:53] <Laurenceb_> http://www.modelrockets.co.uk/shop/klima-model-rocket-motors/d3-six-pack-18mm-rocket-glidercar-motor-p-3310.html?osCsid=4b2d6ca999cfd67a60635c2e9fbee8ac
[20:53] <Laurenceb_> composite D motors
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[21:05] <Ian_> eroomde, you are welcome. Nice to know it's appreciated, I'll tell the girls! It should be finished by now, you aren't enjoying enough of it . . .
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> eurohoney?
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[21:06] <Ian_> Strictly UK honey Sven
[21:07] <Ian_> Our crop is a lot smaller than on the Continent generally - crap wx
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> I'm Kevin
[21:08] <Ian_> How did I get that wrong? Sorry - - - DL7AD is Sven! I must be going word blind
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> no problem :)
[21:08] <fsphil> I'm terrible with names too. I'd forget my own if it wasn't in my nick
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[21:10] <Ian_> I remember you as FileServerPhil . . . for some reason. Deffo good though
[21:10] <fsphil> haha
[21:10] <eroomde> Ian_: i was actually getting through some i got in france - yours is beter!
[21:11] <Ian_> Ha. flattery will win out any day
[21:11] <eroomde> almost a pun too
[21:12] <Ian_> Maybe you should get a pound jar for every young guy you inspire to be a uni student
[21:12] <fsphil> I didn't see many bees about this year
[21:13] <Ian_> Pop across and take your shirt off. I'll make the introductions. You shouldn't be troubled with arthritis for a few years afterwards . . .
[21:14] <eroomde> that's quite the invitation
[21:15] <Ian_> Today I walked though an archway in a tall hedge covered in ivy. The bees were busy working it while the sun shone. /
[21:15] <fsphil> lol
[21:15] Action: fsphil spots cgfbee
[21:15] <Ian_> I only noticed because the hedge seemed to be humming.
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[21:16] <eroomde> no sun anywhere today
[21:16] <eroomde> went for a walk in cambridge, managing to just avoid rain
[21:16] <Ian_> A good couple of hours in the midlands between 1100 and 1430
[21:16] <fsphil> woke up to clear blue sky, not a cloud. didn't last long though
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[21:17] <fsphil> frosty mornings now too. lovely
[21:17] <astrobiologist> you guys have all the luck. the highlight of my day has been talking to myself using my blackberry and my ipad, psk31 over their loudspeakers from one to the other. now THAT'S geeky
[21:17] <fsphil> ah, we've all done that
[21:17] <Darkside> haha
[21:17] <fsphil> maybe not with the blackberry
[21:18] <Darkside> blackberry is just android now isn't it?
[21:18] <astrobiologist> it was the Amazon kindle droidpsk31 app, run on Blackberry
[21:18] <Ian_> Shhhhh, don't mention blackberry, the bees will get excited!
[21:18] <chris_99> heh astrobiologist, i routed TCP/IP over FSK/PSK
[21:18] <chris_99> (audio)
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> Ian_,
[21:18] <fsphil> we where talking about this last week in the office, nobody was sure if they still existed
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> physics rocks!
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[21:18] <astrobiologist> chris_99: christ!! now that IS geeky
[21:18] <Ian_> Yo?
[21:18] <chris_99> heh
[21:19] <astrobiologist> blackberries have been able to run android. apks for some time
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:19] <fsphil> sounds interesting chris_99
[21:19] <fsphil> soundmodem?
[21:19] <astrobiologist> and it is easy to recompile from android to BlackBerry os10, they are both Unix based
[21:19] <fsphil> (unintentional pun)
[21:20] <astrobiologist> there are actually quite a lot of native blackberry apps, but they tried to stay alive by doing a deal with amazon to access their kindle app store too
[21:20] <astrobiologist> so quite a lot more apps including some ham ones
[21:20] <chris_99> fsphil, https://www.anfractuosity.com/projects/ultrasound-networking/
[21:21] <astrobiologist> but loads of popular android apps not on amazon app store. if I was amazon, I would be seriously worried
[21:21] <fsphil> neat
[21:22] <astrobiologist> so, basically blackberry sounds like they have thrown in the towel, and their newest ("Priv") sounds like a brick sh*thouse but also is android native, with tweaks, and can access the full google appstore
[21:22] <astrobiologist> quite nostalgic about it really. end of an era.
[21:22] <fsphil> I did networking through the sound card, but directly connected rather than over speakers/mic
[21:22] <chris_99> cool, what did you do it with fsphil
[21:22] <fsphil> I was quite sad to see nokia go. but not surprised, their last few phones where rubbish
[21:22] <astrobiologist> although they are keeping the os10 operating system for corporations and governments - much more secure than android
[21:23] <fsphil> but those early ones where built like tanks
[21:23] <fsphil> chris_99: not too much, just wanted to see if it worked. was able to ssh / some basic browsing
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[21:24] <chris_99> yeah, sorry, i mean what program
[21:24] <fsphil> my next project is to do IP over one of the rfm modules
[21:24] <fsphil> ah, "soundmodem"
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[21:25] <chris_99> ah gotcha cool. Rfm module?
[21:25] <fsphil> yeah the little 434mhz radio modules
[21:25] <chris_99> ah neat
[21:25] <fsphil> like the rfm98w
[21:25] <fsphil> like a very slow but long range wifi
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[21:28] <astrobiologist> is there a hellschreib app on the Google Appstore?
[21:28] <chris_99> hmm, is 446MHz @ 500mW the highest power you can transmit on, without a licence
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> 446?
[21:29] <chris_99> pmr446
[21:29] <Lunar_Lander> hmmm
[21:30] <fsphil> 500mw on 869mhz
[21:31] <fsphil> though not continously, there is a duty limit
[21:31] <astrobiologist> incidentally the Blackberry CEO made what I thought was the most concise and clearheaded bit of towel throwing I have read recently: "
[21:31] <astrobiologist> we have some really committed diehards. I respect that there's a lot of heritage here, a lot of pride. If the math doesn't add up, the math doesn't add up. We could keep the pride and die hungry or we can eat well and not so proud, maybe. So I chose to eat well
[21:31] <fsphil> but that's fine for something like IP
[21:33] <chris_99> oh neat fsphil, i was just thinking in general, not on a HAB, but you can actually use 500mW with a certain duty limit on a HAB?
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> astrobiologist: See also nokia
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> 'no we won't make an android phone'
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> 'fuck'
[21:33] <astrobiologist> chris_99 yes, that is what the zigbeePros do
[21:34] <chris_99> interesting, i've actually got some zigbee pros somewhere, which i should get round to playing with
[21:34] <russss> PMR446 is approved for voice comms only
[21:35] <astrobiologist> SpeedEvil: the difference vs Blackberry is that 0S10 let's you install. apks and has done for ages. the question is getting hold of kosher apks. that is why they had hopes for amazon. Blackberry is only a tiny player, so it is a much bigger problem for amazon that their appstore is moribund - even with amazon underground (free apps)
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> I hadn't looked at BB recently.
[21:36] <SpeedEvil> s/recently/ever/
[21:36] <russss> 500mW at 10% duty cycle on 868MHz is probably the highest you can use for data without type-approved equipment, I guess
[21:36] <fsphil> chris_99: yeah, the 500mw is fine for airborne. but with 10% duty
[21:37] <astrobiologist> SpedEvil: I have a two year old BlackBerry Q5, it's pretty decent. more apps than I can fit on the phone.
[21:37] <fsphil> there are some higher power allocations in the ghz ranges, but much less useful due to the high frequency
[21:38] <astrobiologist> in the states you can also do 1W 900mhz, that's fun!
[21:38] <astrobiologist> I was talking to by linux flight computer from a bash prompt at 90,000ft at 9600bps
[21:38] <SIbot> In real units: 90,000 ft = 27.4 km
[21:38] <russss> hmm, 169.4  169.475 MHz 500mW at 1% duty cycle. "Use is limited to asset tracking and tracing. Equipment may be used airborne"
[21:38] <chris_99> well that's pretty cool! do most people use http://www.ti.com/product/cc1101 for 868, as it looks like you can use your own crystal
[21:38] <astrobiologist> ditto on a sounding rocket at mach 1.8 at 28,000ft
[21:38] <SIbot> In real units: 28,000 ft = 8534 m
[21:39] <fsphil> only 869mhz flight I'm aware of used the rfm69hw
[21:39] <fsphil> oh there was another one that used a zigbee-style module
[21:40] <astrobiologist> I think some groups have tried the ZigBeePro on 869 in flight, but not so good results - range would be about 20 miles so you'd have to be right underneath it (or everybody on habitat would have to re-equip with zigbees - they do mesh too)
[21:41] <chris_99> is that due to the specific zigbee module i guess, rather than the frequency
[21:43] <astrobiologist> 20 miles is given as the maximum free-space range without obstructions. The 900mhz 1watt version gets you up to about 40 miles. the zigbees have patented encryption and frequency spreading
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[21:44] <russss> it's possible their protocol is limited by distance
[21:44] <chris_99> it looks like the RFM69HW doesn't transmit at the full 500mW from what i can see, but rather 100mW
[21:45] <astrobiologist> the u.s groups I flew with thought the 900mhz version was the dog's particulars
[21:46] <russss> I think UKHAS in general has a general, nonspecific dislike of closed protocols
[21:46] <Ian_> chris_99 you are right RFM60HW is 100mW
[21:47] <astrobiologist> isn't lora much the same but cleverer and more meshy?
[21:48] <russss> lora isn't meshy, I don't think. It's just a better protocol (although it's also closed so some people aren't fans of it)
[21:49] <astrobiologist> the zigbees were good if you wanted fully echo-d uplink and downlink, like a telnet connection. but you had to be fairly close by. that was fine if you could drive around freely underneath the flight path, like we did in black rock
[21:49] <fsphil> If it can't be written in software by anyone, it's no fun :)
[21:50] <Ian_> Lora does seem to be quite effective though and gaining support . . . a few good ambassadors giving it their undivided support.
[21:50] <fsphil> it does work rather well
[21:50] <Miek> i thought there was some SDR lora stuff floating around?
[21:51] <fsphil> no FEC support
[21:51] <astrobiologist> I think Ed flew a robot airship around in protected Scandinavian airspace using the 900mhz 1watt zigbees (I think that one is called an Xbee), sending commands on a bash prompt just like we did :-)
[21:51] <astrobiologist> the killer app of the lora seems to be that each payload will repeat the others, no?
[21:52] <Ian_> I get the impression fsphil that if something moves you are likely to reverse engineer it
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[21:53] <astrobiologist> Ian_ that tenet will hold up until the point that fsphil comes across two donkeys mating or something
[21:53] <astrobiologist> they are moving... but....
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[21:54] <Ian_> I guess I phrased it badly . . . :)
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[21:55] <fsphil> I'm not good with FEC. Or donkeys.
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[21:56] <astrobiologist> FECing donkeys. as father Ted might have said
[21:56] <Ian_> Fecless even
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[21:57] <astrobiologist> you could sequence the DNA of the donkeys and then undertake an epic synthetic biology project, reusing and altering essential genes until you come up with some completely different vertebrate, an axeotyl or something.
[22:00] <SpeedEvil> Pegusai.
[22:02] <astrobiologist> could we just say "bats" and meet in the middle that way? awesome flying mammals like tiny donkeys/rats with wings
[22:02] <astrobiologist> you could even fit one with a small tracker payload... SEGUING allllll the way back
[22:04] <fsphil> ba-tty
[22:04] <fsphil> I'm sorry
[22:05] <astrobiologist> dude
[22:06] <astrobiologist> fully tty bash prompt
[22:06] <astrobiologist> on a bat
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/vzurPyb - on that topic
[22:07] <astrobiologist> anybody remember bathab from last year? thought experiment about a very low altitude floater to record bat ultrasound in flight
[22:07] <fsphil> that's a topic?
[22:07] <fsphil> lol
[22:07] <SpeedEvil> astrobiologist: it's interesting
[22:07] <fsphil> oh I do remember that
[22:07] <astrobiologist> it won't actually load..... on my.... blackberry... gulp
[22:07] <fsphil> ultrasonic floater
[22:08] <astrobiologist> bats don't fly that high up,Not with active ultrasound anyway (some fly higher sometimes but they won't bother with the sonar if they aren't hunting/have nothing to collide with)
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> I'd guess ~20m tops
[22:09] <astrobiologist> so bathab would be more like an airship - you'd have to keep trimming or dumping ballast to avoid buildings, trees etc
[22:09] <fsphil> any floater low enough will end up in a tree
[22:09] <astrobiologist> yeah 20m about right as I recall
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> Of course there is the I/r^2 vs 1/r^4 thing
[22:09] <SpeedEvil> which helps
[22:09] <fsphil> or stuck on a tv aerial
[22:11] <astrobiologist> but how about a slightly higher altitude floater (100m?) with a high gain directional mic pointing down?
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[22:11] <SpeedEvil> That starts to suck in that the bats don't shoot up
[22:11] <russss> hmm, that probably falls under the classification of an Unmanned Aerial Surveillance Vehicle
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> they are designed for maximum gain out front
[22:13] <astrobiologist> ARGH WHY IS BATHAB SO DIFFICULT!!
[22:13] <astrobiologist> I said that last year as well
[22:13] <fsphil> because it's badhab
[22:13] <fsphil> bathab*
[22:13] <astrobiologist> russss surely not unless people are speaking in ultrasound??
[22:14] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaM_tYWBdyU
[22:14] <russss> it's quite broad I think
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> russss: diddn't it specify cameras?
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> I skimmed that bit
[22:15] <russss> a small unmanned surveillance aircraft means a small unmanned aircraft which is equipped to undertake any form of surveillance or data acquisition.
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> ah
[22:15] <russss> it does say "aircraft" but I think a balloon is an aircraft.
[22:15] <fsphil> isn't that every HAB with a sensor?
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> No, it's not.
[22:15] <astrobiologist> even about.... bats??
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> A small balloon (under 2m in extent) is a small balloon, and is exempt from most regulations
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[22:16] <SpeedEvil> now, the fun part.
[22:16] <astrobiologist> 2m might carry quite a lot at 20m actually :-)
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> When does a small balloon become not a balloon after you are able to control it.
[22:16] <russss> hmm yeah, the definition of "aircraft" in this case isn't actually in the ANO
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> russss: yes, but 'small balloon' says 'nothing except sections n,m,o,...' applies
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> and if the small unmanned aircraft isn't one of them, you're fine
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> At least as long as you're squarely in the small balloon category.
[22:17] <SpeedEvil> And adding guidance might make you not.
[22:18] <SpeedEvil> As an aside, I can't put a convincing argument that those inflatable sharks aren't airships, and don't require an airship licence.
[22:18] <astrobiologist> would ballast control be "guidance"? there's not really any directionality
[22:18] <russss> (3) Articles 131, 138, 161, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 232 except 232(2)(a) and 255 apply to or in relation to an aircraft to which this article applies.
[22:18] <russss> 167 is "Small Unmanned Surveillance Aircraft"
[22:18] <russss> so it does apply
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> ah
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> If of course you get approval through the 'typical balloon' route, then AIUI you're fine.
[22:19] <russss> this is 167 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/3015/article/167/made
[22:20] <SpeedEvil> The CAA can approve anything - pretty much.
[22:20] <russss> oh wow, you can't actually fly it *over* a congested area.
[22:20] <russss> well, pretend I didn't spot that.
[22:20] <russss> nothing to see here
[22:20] <astrobiologist> bats prefer the countryside anyway
[22:21] Action: russss stops looking in case he finds a paragraph which says "for the purposes of article 167, a bat is considered a person"
[22:21] <SpeedEvil> #batlivesmatter
[22:22] <russss> so you cannot "drop articles for the purposes of agriculture, horticulture or forestry" from a ballon. Fact.
[22:22] <astrobiologist> if bats roost in your house, they are pretty much untouchable
[22:23] <astrobiologist> I don't want to drop anything, I want it back!! in the normal way. on habitat
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[22:25] Action: SpeedEvil wishes kite was properly defined.
[22:26] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[22:27] Action: SpeedEvil has silly thoughts about parachutes and vertical winches.
[22:28] <astrobiologist> I guess we should all start to turn in. please remember to lock up your donkeys
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[22:48] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HORUSLORA after 0316 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HORUSLORA
[22:52] <eroomde> HPC Gears sell bar stock very cheap
[22:52] <eroomde> stainless, delrin, titanium etc
[22:53] <eroomde> didn't realise but it looks to be almost selling it on at cost for them
[22:54] <eroomde> silver steel too
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Oooh - that is a lot of interesting stuff.
[22:56] <Zuph> "Never knowingly outpriced" <-- An engineer wrote that slogan.
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> http://orbitalfasteners.co.uk/ I found useful.
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[22:58] <SpeedEvil> https://www.orbitalfasteners.co.uk/en/products/m6x3m-stainless-steel-studding-threaded-rod-a2-304-din-975 3m*6mm stud - 4 quid - regular steel is 1.?
[22:58] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: in a similar vein, we use accuscrew a lot
[22:58] <eroomde> anything you want they have or will make
[22:59] <eroomde> wow SpeedEvil
[22:59] <eroomde> that's peanuts for a2
[22:59] <SpeedEvil> and they deliver 3m lengths
[23:00] <eroomde> interestingly, having been reading about thsi recently, split-ring washers are actually worse than no washer at all for vibration-proofing
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> Funky
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> I've been wondering if there is anywhere sane online to source stainless rebar
[23:03] <eroomde> i have never come across it
[23:03] <eroomde> would be proper expensive
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> It's actually used in construction
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> commonly
[23:04] <Zuph> You might have just solved a problem we've been having at work, eroomde. HPC sells internal toothed gears > 6.5 inches ID!
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> (not as comonly as steel
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: :)
[23:05] <eroomde> welcome Zuph!
[23:05] <eroomde> they're a very good outfit
[23:06] <eroomde> they'll do custom stuff for v reasonable prices
[23:06] <eroomde> and it's all machined very nicely. They were the gold standard for gears back in the robot wars days
[23:07] <Zuph> Brilliant.
[23:10] <eroomde> grab their paper catalogue. their website is hard work
[23:11] <Zuph> We'll see if they'll send one to the US.
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: That way with OF - though it's gotten a bit better
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> depressing.
[23:13] <eroomde> OF?
[23:13] <SpeedEvil> orbital
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> It used to be if you searched for '6mm threaded rod' - they would return 6mm OR threaded OR rod
[23:14] <Zuph> Why can't everyone just have McMaster-Carr's website?
[23:14] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[23:28] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[23:30] VK5MAR (7cabb515@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.171.181.21) joined #highaltitude.
[23:31] <VK5MAR> Morning Guys
[23:33] <VK5MAR> are you guys using any simplex freq to communicate between each other
[23:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CX2SC-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CX2SC-11
[23:37] <Laurenceb_> how come habhub predictor doesnt agree with random aerospace?
[23:38] <Laurenceb_> theres about 1km difference in burst altitude
[23:39] Flakes (1b215f8b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.27.33.95.139) joined #highaltitude.
[23:40] <Laurenceb_> aha burst diameters have been tweaked
[23:40] <lz1dev> Laurenceb_: what are the chances that we both flip the same side of a coin?
[23:40] <lz1dev> .flip
[23:40] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: You got: 03Tails
[23:40] <Laurenceb_> lol
[23:40] <Laurenceb_> whats the point of that?
[23:40] <lz1dev> test our luck of course
[23:41] <Laurenceb_> what the heck
[23:41] <Laurenceb_> habhub HY-1200 doesnt match the howyee site
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> should be 9.1m
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> predictor here gives the right answers
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
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[23:44] <Laurenceb_> aha
[23:44] <Laurenceb_> howyee have undated their spec
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[23:44] <Laurenceb_> habhub appears to be out of date
[23:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5ARG-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5ARG-1
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[23:49] <VK5KX_Peter> Are we go for launch yet??
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[23:50] <VK5KX_Peter> about 10sec to early on that post.
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[23:52] <Laurenceb_> get ready for the launch
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> DJ Jean
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[23:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5ZM_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5ZM_chase
[00:00] --- Sun Oct 18 2015