highaltitude.log.20151014

[00:00] <BeaverOne> yeah, but what's the gyro, the inertial sensor?
[00:00] <BeaverOne> "A proportional-integral-derivative controller (PID controller) is a control loop feedback mechanism (controller) commonly used in industrial control systems. A PID controller continuously calculates an "error value" as the difference between a measured process variable and a desired setpoint."
[00:01] <BeaverOne> interesting, checking out PID control with arduino
[00:02] <mbales_> gyro will tell you which way your balloon is turning and how fast, much fast dta than getting the same from GPS and more accurate
[00:02] <mbales_> theyre infintely useful
[00:02] <mbales_> PID that is, gyros are just regularly useful
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[00:03] <BeaverOne> http://playground.arduino.cc/Code/PIDLibrary
[00:04] <mbales_> thats the one
[00:05] <BeaverOne> mbales_: this is awesome
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[00:07] <mbales_> yeah, definitely one of the more powerful tools in the microcontroller world
[00:07] <mbales_> PID loops are in everyting
[00:09] <chris_99> http://brettbeauregard.com/blog/2011/04/improving-the-beginners-pid-introduction/ has some interesting articles on PIDs
[00:11] <chris_99> and this - http://m.eet.com/media/1112634/f-wescot.pdf "PID without a PhD"
[00:15] <mbales_> beaverone, did you mange to get the FTDI and batteries?
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[00:29] <BeaverOne> mbales_: hmm
[00:29] <BeaverOne> mbales_: which did you mean?
[00:29] <mbales_> sorry, mixed you up with someone else
[00:29] <BeaverOne> mbales_: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100852237@N06/albums/72157659594396151
[00:30] <mbales_> putting your GPS antenna under another shield makes me a bit nervous
[00:33] <BeaverOne> mbales_: i'm getting an external antenna
[00:33] <BeaverOne> hoping to alleviate issues with that
[00:33] <mbales_> ah, very good
[00:33] <BeaverOne> powered active, 10mAh
[00:33] <mbales_> patch antennas work well, helical antennas even better
[00:33] <mbales_> given that this is a balloon that likely wont help a whole lot
[00:35] <mbales_> i use a passive dipole on mine without any issue
[00:35] <mbales_> but it wont hurt things either
[00:36] <mbales_> ill be on later, time to leave work
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[02:40] <BeaverOne> mbales: thinking i should start out with a PID Loop involving a servo motor in a simple situation first... i understand the pid control loop theory basically
[02:40] <mbales> definitely a good idea
[02:41] <BeaverOne> mbales: in my own words : "it's taking the input of current values, and the input of expected values, and outputting a corrective measure to approach the expected values, it's a feedback loop attempting to maintain the current values toward the expected values
[02:41] <mbales> the ardupilot offers a really nice feature rich solution, but honestly more power to you if you want to build your own
[02:41] <mbales> that is correct
[02:42] <BeaverOne> so i'll have longitude, latitude, and the IMU (gyro?) data being filtered with a kalman filter algorithm over time
[02:42] <BeaverOne> compared with the Waypoint longitude and latitude i want the craft to be at
[02:42] <BeaverOne> those two inputs going in, and some corrective output of sorts
[02:43] <BeaverOne> but i don't understand how to make use of the servo with this idea
[02:50] <BeaverOne> mbales: http://www.instructables.com/id/DCM-UAS/?ALLSTEPS
[02:51] <BeaverOne> not sure if the uno can handle all this, seems i'll need a lot of resources
[02:52] <mbales> deginitely a cool project. In addition to gyro and gps Id include a magnetometer so you have a fast dead reckoning sensor on board, itll help correct any drift in the gyro as it will drift over time. Its also a good back up in case of the unlikely dreaded gimbal lock
[02:53] <BeaverOne> heh
[02:54] <BeaverOne> this is fascinating, it's lead me to beginning to understand the Apollo Guidance System :P
[02:59] <mbales> oh yeah
[03:00] <mbales> nuts what they pulled off
[03:00] <mbales> using core memory
[03:00] <mbales> hand woven too
[03:00] <mbales> absolutely nuts
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[07:42] <SM0ULC> anyone know anything about the ary1-flight over the baltic sea? kinda wierd flightpattern
[07:44] <lz1dev> most likely a test data
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[07:48] <DoYouKnow> anyone here know what the secret is for the patch antenna in the ublox-7 usb to have such a wide bandwidth while be small enough to fit in a usb stick?
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[07:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DK0PT - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK0PT
[08:00] <SA6BSS> DoYouKnow: u have a link to thesti
[08:01] <SA6BSS> the stick u asking for
[08:02] <RealBorg> DoYouKnow, wavelength of gps signal is only 19cm compared to 70cm we usually use for tracking
[08:02] <DoYouKnow> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vk-172-USB-GPS-Ublox-G-mouse-Gmouse-Usb-glonass-Support-Windows-8-7-vista-xp-ce-/331650947130?hash=item4d37efd83a
[08:03] <SA6BSS> could be something like this inside http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_65&product_id=55
[08:03] <DoYouKnow> can you see gps on this autocorrelation btw?: http://imgur.com/SEgae4j
[08:03] <DoYouKnow> no, it's a normal square patch
[08:03] <DoYouKnow> but it looks high quality
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[08:04] <DoYouKnow> it has the ground plane built-in to it
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[08:05] <Vaizki_> hmmh... I would have imagined they use something small like http://www.digikey.fi/product-detail/en/1575AT43A0040E/712-1003-1-ND/1560832
[08:05] <Vaizki_> haha SA6BSS linked the same from upu
[08:06] <SA6BSS> the descriptions says its a 18x18x2patch antenna
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[08:06] <SA6BSS> http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/GPS-antenna/p/sm/1115223833.htm#1115223833
[08:07] <DoYouKnow> this one does GLONASS too
[08:07] <DoYouKnow> it's GPS/GLONASS
[08:07] <Vaizki_> have you tried it yourself?
[08:07] <DoYouKnow> yes
[08:07] <SA6BSS> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/GPS-BDS-GLONASS-GALILEO-ceramic-patch_747997096.html
[08:08] <Vaizki_> I mean with glonass
[08:08] <RealBorg> http://www.banggood.com/VK-172-GMOUSE-USB-GPSGLONASS-External-GPS-Module-With-USB-Interface-p-973820.html
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[08:09] <DoYouKnow> yeah
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[08:10] <DoYouKnow> I think it works
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[08:11] <Vaizki_> hmm maybe i'll order one, cheap as (micro)chips
[08:13] <DoYouKnow> http://imgur.com/sHs0hZS
[08:13] <DoYouKnow> I don't know if that's glonass or not
[08:13] <DoYouKnow> is it?
[08:13] <DoYouKnow> that's with the ublox7 patch connected to an rtlsdr
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[08:19] <DoYouKnow> http://imgur.com/UXdK8td
[08:19] <DoYouKnow> that's a picture of it
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[08:24] <DoYouKnow> it's pretty noisy up there
[08:24] <DoYouKnow> near 1618 M
[08:26] <DoYouKnow> http://imgur.com/KWcINd3
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[08:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DK0PT-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK0PT-11
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[08:59] <M0JFP> good morning
[09:00] <M0JFP> forest hab is it flyiong today
[09:01] <fl_0> 8:24am: We have had to cancel the launch today, due to some legal school information not being completed.
[09:01] <fl_0> from UKHAS mailing list
[09:02] <M0JFP> oh no...
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[09:03] <M0JFP> so thats one off the list today, so anyone up for monitoring the ISS --- school chat later on?
[09:04] <fl_0> I guess that was today evening, wasn't it?
[09:04] <fl_0> 19:something UTC?
[09:07] <michal_f|AFK> !flights
[09:07] <SpacenearUS> 03michal_f|AFK: Current flights: 03stratoBeagle October 2015 10(cd33), 03ForestHAB 1 10(926c)
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[09:09] <M0JFP> yeah its a bit later on today, but worth a listen if you can find a local websdr.org station
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[09:14] <gonzo_> from my part of the uk (dorset)
[09:14] <gonzo_> Time Bearing Elevation
[09:14] <gonzo_> 20:40:53 284.3 2.1
[09:14] <gonzo_> 20:45:47 194.3 80.4
[09:14] <gonzo_> 20:50:41 109.7 2.0
[09:14] <gonzo_> time is local
[09:15] <gonzo_> sched time is 20:41 (last I saw)
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[09:23] <M0JFP> Its a telebridge from Italy again top of the boot
[09:25] <craag> That takes the fun out of a bit doesn't it?
[09:25] <craag> Or is that just because of how the orbit path has lined up?
[09:25] <gonzo_> the latter
[09:25] <craag> fair enough
[09:26] <gonzo_> if possible they will try and do a direct link.
[09:27] <craag> Do you know if the datv downlink is active for this one?
[09:27] <gonzo_> as that reinforces the facy that you are talking direct via kit the kids can see, rathe than just by magic over thye interbnet
[09:27] <gonzo_> not heard
[09:27] <craag> k
[09:27] <gonzo_> though I've not looked for that feed yet. Just another project I done need!
[09:27] <gonzo_> dont
[09:28] <craag> hehe
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[09:28] <gonzo_> I have a feeling that the dvb bitrate is below that supported by set top box rx's
[09:29] <craag> I'm waiting for the batc to get the wide-range rx modules back in stock, then I might grab one to make up a portable rx
[09:29] <craag> dad has the not-so-portable dish
[09:29] <gonzo_> people use soem PC card
[09:29] <craag> yeah the issue is that the italians mucked up the program tables
[09:29] <craag> so no off-the-shelf rx will tune to it properly
[09:30] <gonzo_> ah, ok. Not the rate then
[09:30] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[09:30] <gonzo_> I have a mesh dish that would be ideal for the RX, but never actually used it in anger.
[09:30] <craag> jean pierre has modified his 'tutioune' software that talks to some rx hardware, to solve the issue.
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[09:31] <gonzo_> that;s the stuff, Not paid that much attention tbh
[09:31] <gonzo_> what portable rx are you looking to make?> 23cm?
[09:32] <craag> so you can get off-the-shelf pci cards that his software will control. Or he's made a design with a bare module on an ft2232 for usb
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[09:32] <craag> I'd aim it for 2.4, for ISS. But the widerange rx will do 23cm as well I think too
[09:32] <craag> I'm not that interested in terrestrial stuff
[09:33] <craag> dad's got all the kit for that
[09:33] <craag> and I'm nowhere near anywhere that I can actually talk to people with it
[09:33] <gonzo_> if those are the old comtech modules (analogue) then they are 13 or 23cm. Not both
[09:33] <craag> no
[09:33] <craag> dvb-s modules
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[09:34] <craag> I have an old comtech 23cm rx kicking around from when gb3iv was up and I could get that.
[09:34] <gonzo_> not seen those then. Only seen the stand alone DVB encoder thingy.
[09:34] <craag> Yeah this is jsut rx
[09:35] <gonzo_> I used to use the 13cm version for listing to some local sigs in the AR band. Though tbh, they were possibly not AR origin
[09:35] <craag> hehe
[09:35] <craag> yay video senders
[09:36] <gonzo_> I sat watching the airborn IR camera feed for ages, waitinmg for a callsign.
[09:36] <craag> we had a guy get his license and join a repeater group up in london after seeing the local repeater output on his home video sender-receiver
[09:37] <craag> (he lived about 100m from the tx)
[09:38] <gonzo_> plod heli was on 2370meg, but not seen that for a long time. Though that is in the band that ofcom flogged off. I did wonder if plod would realise
[09:38] <craag> ah
[09:38] <craag> nice :)
[09:38] <gonzo_> (also that freq is one of the ISS ATV chan options, and the enfield ATV rptr used to have an input there)
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[09:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DJ0FET_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DJ0FET_chase
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[09:45] <michal_f> are there any tricks when attaching payload to a train so that it swings less ?
[09:46] <daveake> size matters
[09:46] <michal_f> any kinds of knots ?
[09:46] <michal_f> 25/25/15 cm, 450g
[09:46] <michal_f> i was thinking of replacing part of string with a long stripe of rubber, acting as kind of "amortizer"
[09:47] <daveake> Knots don't matter, unless they fail in which case your payload won't be swinging at all
[09:47] <jokke_> solves the issue :P
[09:49] <chris_99> haha
[09:49] <michal_f> what do you think of a rubber stripe idea ?
[09:50] <Laurenceb> payload length between 9 and 15m seems to be optimal in theory
[09:50] <Laurenceb> I mean payload train
[09:50] <Laurenceb> also you want to avoid compound pendulum effects
[09:51] <Laurenceb> and payload line twisting
[09:51] <michal_f> since trains is attached to balloon at 1 point, it's hard to avoid twist
[09:51] <Laurenceb> the right choice of nylon line helps
[09:52] <Laurenceb> also you can use multiple lines if you want to be really pro
[09:52] <michal_f> mine are randomaerospace, so I get they're ok
[09:52] <michal_f> not too pro, this is my first launch
[09:53] <michal_f> I'll consider it success if I don't release baloon without payload ;]
[09:54] <michal_f> well... I think Ill just keep it simple for the first timw
[09:54] <michal_f> big day is comming, I should be getting my permission today...
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[10:04] <eroomde> michal_f: anything from randomaerospace will be good
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[11:30] <Laurenceb> https://www.facebook.com/flyzano
[11:30] <Laurenceb> lol comments
[11:32] <daveake> lol @ skeleton waiting
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[11:36] <daveake> I thnik "not ready" covers it
[11:41] <chris_99> i've just been reading the BBC article, it sounds like it doesn't do the main feature of actually following you, and they're still releasing it
[11:45] <Laurenceb> they have released it
[11:45] <Laurenceb> they used a linear reg off a single cell lipo to power the wifi module
[11:46] <Laurenceb> so it browns out when you rev up the motors
[11:46] <daveake> "We thought, 'the hardware's there, the hardware's future proofed - why delay?'
[11:46] <daveake> hrummph
[11:46] <daveake> I shall translate: "We needed cash so we shipped a broken product"
[11:46] <chris_99> lol
[11:51] <PaulZC> Greetings all. Just a quick "hello" from me. First time on highaltitude and (I think) first time on IRC...
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[11:52] <PaulZC> You may receive occasional desperate pleas for help as my "pico balloon radiosonde with dust sensor" progresses...!
[11:52] <Laurenceb> sounds fun
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[11:53] <Laurenceb> maybe relevant https://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:report_v4.pdf
[11:54] <PaulZC> Cheers Laurence - yes very relevant. I shall read with interest!
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[11:56] <chris_99> dust sensor?
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> A very, very small sensor.
[11:57] <chris_99> heh
[11:59] <richardeoin> I've considered doing something similar, there are a couple of people here who are into particulate measurement things too
[12:00] <richardeoin> I don't think the pico balloons are good enough yet though, so working on that currently
[12:05] <eroomde> tiny instrumentation is a fun challenge
[12:05] <eroomde> because usually really good instrumentation tends to mean quite large quiet bipolar powersupplies (+/- 15V etc) and doing stuff single sided inside 3V or 1.*V really limits options
[12:06] <eroomde> 1.8V*
[12:08] <Laurenceb> there are a fair few good quality 1.8 or 3.3v opamps
[12:08] <Laurenceb> depending on application obviously
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> Yeah. There are really few 3.3V opamps in my 1998 maplin catalog.
[12:15] <eroomde> sure but none of them seem to be as good as the best gp instrumentation amps
[12:15] <eroomde> comparing inamp to inamp
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> Well, 1uV Vos is available cheaply.
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> It is odd that teh absolute best Ib opamp TI does is 30 years old.
[12:16] <eroomde> 1uV OS is very low!
[12:16] <eroomde> sure it's not chopper?
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> no
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> http://www.analog.com/en/products/amplifiers/operational-amplifiers/zero-drift-amplifiers/ada4528-2.html#product-overview
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> hah - be careful reading the top line.
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> '55V' should read '5.5V'
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> Oops - yes - chopper IIRC they do a non-chopper one with slightly worse Vos
[12:22] <eroomde> yes that's chopper
[12:22] <eroomde> which comes with drawbacks
[12:22] <eroomde> fine for some stuff though
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[12:28] <adamgreig> i once designed an inverting opamp amplifier on a single sided supply
[12:28] <adamgreig> turns out that's a mistake
[12:28] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:32] <gonzo_> fine if you bias it
[12:32] <adamgreig> only if you have the opamp on a virtual earth halfway up vcc which is not really "single sided" any more
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> Or not.
[12:33] <adamgreig> and even then only if your input signal is also only vcc/2 in extent and biased as well :P
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> It's fine if you have the input on the other side of a shunt in the negative rail, for exampel, to measure current
[12:33] <adamgreig> niche but checks out :p
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[12:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03sp5ta_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=sp5ta_chase
[12:37] <Laurenceb> why is GCC so big :-/
[12:37] <Laurenceb> >70meg download
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[12:38] <gonzo_> it's all easier using opamps for AC
[12:38] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: NSA
[12:39] <Laurenceb> lol
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[12:43] <Laurenceb> more likely the reason for why my download is also so slow :-/
[12:43] <eroomde> http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/13844621.___We_can___t_wait_to_get_started_____say_staff_at_new_Waitrose_in_Botley_Road/
[12:43] <eroomde> life changes for the better tomorrow
[12:43] <adamgreig> haha nice
[12:43] <eroomde> (this is about 150m from my house)
[12:43] <Laurenceb> sounds boring
[12:43] <adamgreig> aww jealous
[12:43] <adamgreig> A new 'bakery grazing' area of the store will allow shoppers to grab a bite to eat as they wander around the 24,500 square-foot supermarket.
[12:43] <adamgreig> wow
[12:43] <eroomde> yes that caught my eye too
[12:44] <eroomde> i'm going to be doing some grazing and baking
[12:44] <Laurenceb> slow news day?
[12:44] <eroomde> no this is big news Laurenceb
[12:44] <eroomde> suddently everything will get better tomorrow
[12:44] <eroomde> i have a good local supermarket
[12:44] <Laurenceb> lul
[12:44] <eroomde> with a fish kettle rental service
[12:44] <adamgreig> I have yet to try my local waitrose's fish kettle rental service
[12:44] <adamgreig> the fish counter is very very good though
[12:44] <eroomde> you haven't lived!
[12:45] <eroomde> get a whole salmon or sea trout or something and poach it in a nice buoillon
[12:45] <adamgreig> i do now have the fancy hemp or whatever bags, and the waitrose quickcheck, mywaitrose card, etc
[12:45] <adamgreig> obviously smiled upon by some higher power as haven't had stuff rescanned at quickcheck in over a year
[12:46] <chris_99> in London Waitrose has started doing beer growlers apparently, hopefully they'll do that in all of them
[12:46] <SpeedEvil> Is fish kettling something new the police have started doing?
[12:47] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:47] <Laurenceb> I'm more worried about growling beer
[12:47] <chris_99> heh
[12:47] Action: SpeedEvil imagines policement slapping protesters with really large herring.
[12:47] <russss> SpeedEvil: I think that's more the preserve of the Environment Agency
[12:48] <daveake> Hate to think of the scale of that problem
[12:49] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb: http://www.adafruit.com/products/2472
[12:50] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb: even the founder of adafruit says combining data from gyro, accelerometer, and magnetometer is difficult
[12:50] <BeaverOne> combining that data into actual orientation in space
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[12:55] <adamgreig> hey eroomde looks like your new waitrose has an arduino brand coffee machine
[12:56] <eroomde> O
[12:56] <eroomde> M
[12:56] <eroomde> G
[12:56] <eroomde> do all the wires keep falling out?
[12:56] <adamgreig> http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/resources/images/4318986/
[12:56] <adamgreig> http://www.coffeeitalia.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=Victoria_Arduino_Adonis
[12:56] <eroomde> and do the baristas ask questions like 'do i have to put the cup under the spout or does it just go into the cup even if the cup isn't attached?'
[12:57] <eroomde> blimey you could buy a cnc mill for the price of that coffee machine
[12:58] <BeaverOne> seems expensive
[12:58] <adamgreig> if you're serving hundreds of people a day, every day, for years...
[12:58] <adamgreig> works out pretty quickly I imagine
[12:58] <eroomde> sure, it'll make you money
[12:58] <Zuph> 24,500 square feet? psh. Behold: 'Murica http://junglejims.com/
[12:59] <eroomde> i love america not america = jungles and savages and snakes and dangerous wild
[12:59] <eroomde> i love america\n
[12:59] <eroomde> maybe you should don a pith helment before grabbing a basket and going in
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[13:01] <Zuph> http://www.junglejims.com/planyourtrip/pdf/StoreMap.pdf
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[13:02] <eroomde> jesus wept
[13:02] <eroomde> that's huge
[13:03] <adamgreig> I wonder what's in the England section
[13:03] <Zuph> 200,000 square feet
[13:03] <adamgreig> it's about as big as one full waitrose...
[13:04] <Zuph> The whole England section sits beneath an animatronic Robin Hood/Sherwood Forest bought scrap from some failed amusement park.
[13:04] <adamgreig> wow..
[13:04] <eroomde> Zuph: this is just a fairly in-city supermarket
[13:04] <eroomde> we also have huge out-of-town sainsburies and tescos
[13:05] <eroomde> we thanksfully don't have a jungle jims
[13:05] <Zuph> eroomde: I figured as much. Any excuse to play the 'murica card, though.
[13:05] <daveake> eroomde if you did, your house would probably be in it
[13:06] <eroomde> i would like the uk to be murica when it comes to funding rocket development programs
[13:06] <eroomde> at least in terms of funding level, rather than being designed by the senate
[13:06] <eroomde> daveake: yes probably. like earth bein in a bad spot when the sun red-giants
[13:06] <daveake> exactly
[13:07] <Laurenceb> bzip2: Data integrity error when decompressing.
[13:07] <Laurenceb> nice GCC, nice
[13:07] <Zuph> Hey, as far as ISS life science research funding is concerned, funding's never been better.
[13:07] <fsphil> it'll probably be alright (* alright being turned into a molten ball of lava)
[13:08] <eroomde> does the ISS do life sciences research?
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Protein crystallography, for example
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> Annoyingly hard to do down here
[13:08] <Zuph> Yep. My company's involved in rodent research, drosophila, and various cell biology research on station.
[13:09] <Zuph> Breaking into 3D bioprinting, which is actually hugely advantageous to do in microgravity.
[13:09] <eroomde> i hope it works out
[13:10] <eroomde> everything i've read suggests the science return from the ISS is about 3 orders of magnitude (where the metric is some combo of patents/papers per dollar spent) then the next most expensive way of doing research
[13:10] <SpeedEvil> 'In other news, a 3d bioprinted mouse experiment ran amok on the ISS today, and created what can only be described as Tribbles'
[13:10] <eroomde> orders of magnitude worse*
[13:11] <Zuph> Sounds about right. Space is expensive. There's some research you can do on station that just can't be done on the ground, though.
[13:11] <adamgreig> and the next most expensive way is where you throw gold coins into little grids, decode the landing spots into ascii, submit the paper, then throw the coins away and start over
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[13:11] <fsphil> great for the gold coin manufacturer
[13:11] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[13:11] <Lunar_Lander> hello btw
[13:12] <Zuph> NASA's moving to funding mechanisms which are making things cheaper (for NASA, anyway), so that should improve things.
[13:15] <Zuph> But it's still very defense-industry-ey, with the associated insider arrangements and sweetheart deals that entails.
[13:16] <gonzo_> wasn't one of the main reasons for ISS, to keep space experienced people from the old soviet state, employed. Rather have them get taken on by less friendly nations?
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> Partially, yes.
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> One reason also why they are using the current russian engines, and having all sorts of legilsative fun over it.
[13:25] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[13:29] <Zuph> Yeah. It was also a great excuse to pour money into US Defense Contractors. A lot of the US Segment is leftover stuff from Space Station Freedom, build by Boeing, LockMart, et al.
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[13:57] <SpeedEvil> It's a real pity that someone diddn't sit down and say 'right - we're not doing anything until you get the cost of launch down to $1000/lb
[13:59] <eroomde> tell me if your armchair gets too worn out SpeedEvil
[13:59] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:00] <SpeedEvil> And yes, that was utterly unlikely to happen for a large variety of reasons.
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[14:03] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb: you there?
[14:03] <Laurenceb> on and off - working
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[14:03] <Laurenceb> what do you want?
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[14:04] <BeaverOne> hopefully i'm not pestering you :(
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[14:05] <Laurenceb> ask away
[14:06] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb: so i'm understanding you're taking in location longitude and latitude (GPS) and also orientation (transformed into x,y,z from data from other sensors, gyro, magneto, etc) with kalman filtering as an input into a PID control loop
[14:07] <Laurenceb> its not that complex
[14:07] <Laurenceb> I use GPS velocity and rate gyro data only
[14:07] <BeaverOne> ah, you're using the GPS for the gyro?
[14:08] <Laurenceb> both
[14:08] <Laurenceb> GPS velocity gives heading
[14:08] <Laurenceb> and rate gyro gives yaw turn rate
[14:08] <BeaverOne> so there is no other sensor device, just the GPS
[14:08] <Laurenceb> those go into a kalman filter, basically a way of estimating the heading more accuratly
[14:09] <Laurenceb> no
[14:09] <Laurenceb> two sensors, GPS and rate gyroscope
[14:09] <eroomde> is this for a glider?
[14:09] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:09] <Laurenceb> well - rogallo wing
[14:09] <eroomde> gps velocity DOES NOT give heading
[14:09] <eroomde> it gives bearing
[14:09] <Laurenceb> I hadnt got to that yet
[14:09] <eroomde> confusing those two = big problems
[14:09] <Laurenceb> I know
[14:09] <Laurenceb> was oversimplifying
[14:09] <eroomde> cool, carry on
[14:10] <Laurenceb> so to solve that problem I fudged by estimating wind velocity during ascent
[14:10] <Laurenceb> as the balloon drifts with the wind
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[14:11] <Laurenceb> http://pastie.org/10481194
[14:12] <Laurenceb> line 615 averages wind over 100m intervals of altitude
[14:12] <Laurenceb> I later found 140m works best
[14:13] <Laurenceb> then lines 672 to 700 calculate heading
[14:14] <Laurenceb> the kalman filter is very simple, just a way to filter rate gyro and estimated heading to obtain more accurate heading
[14:14] <Laurenceb> the melexis gyro has hardly any temperature drift
[14:14] <BeaverOne> but the PID loop, the output is a correction value for the servo motor?
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[14:14] <Laurenceb> nowaday id use maxim or the latest st gyros - similarly low drift with changing temperature
[14:14] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:15] <Laurenceb> its very basic really - tried to keep it simple
[14:15] <Laurenceb> only other feature is optimal descent calculator
[14:15] <Laurenceb> lines 727 to 750 or so
[14:15] <BeaverOne> that's what blows my mind, i don't understand how it transforms from comparing a current set of values to expected values as some unit value for a servo motor
[14:15] <Laurenceb> thats just a case of hand tuning
[14:16] <Laurenceb> lots of hand launches down that hill i showed yesterday
[14:17] <Laurenceb> also iadded this
[14:17] <Laurenceb> https://ukhas.org.uk/code:ground_control
[14:17] <Laurenceb> that was extremely useful for testing
[14:17] <Laurenceb> i could launch manually, wait until it was ~100feet of the ground then run some tests
[14:17] <SIbot> In real units: 100 ft = 30 m
[14:18] <BeaverOne> do you fuse/transform the data from the various sensors or it's plugged into a matrix as an input?
[14:18] <Laurenceb> lets find the code
[14:18] <Laurenceb> https://ukhas.org.uk/code:kalman_filter
[14:19] <Laurenceb> its just a case of sticking data in and results come out :P
[14:19] <BeaverOne> heh
[14:20] <BeaverOne> thank you
[14:20] <Laurenceb> if you have an atmega168 or similar, ublox gps and servo motor you should be able to plug and play
[14:20] <Laurenceb> will need to write a new gyro driver, id recommend finding an spi one
[14:20] <Laurenceb> both maxim and the newer st ones have spi interface so you should be sorted
[14:20] <eroomde> our big HP office printer has been shreiking that the toner is low and must be replaced for about 1000 pages now
[14:20] <eroomde> and yet it's still fine
[14:21] <Laurenceb> sounds familiar
[14:21] <Laurenceb> BeaverOne: tbh nowadays there are three axis magnotometers available, so I'm of two minds...
[14:22] <Laurenceb> if i was doing it again id add a magno
[14:22] <Laurenceb> but if you want it to be nice and simple and get off the ground quickly you could copy my technique
[14:22] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb: https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-bno055-absolute-orientation-sensor
[14:22] <Laurenceb> it worked well enough
[14:22] <BeaverOne> i was looking at that
[14:22] <BeaverOne> i just don't know if it'd be considered cheating
[14:23] <Laurenceb> hmmmm
[14:23] <Laurenceb> I dont know if id trust it
[14:23] <Laurenceb> rogallos will go into a tight spin if you set the servo to max
[14:23] <Laurenceb> same for parafoils - even worse in fact
[14:24] <BeaverOne> hm
[14:24] <chris_99> if a parafoil spins, wont it get tangled, and be completely screwed
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[14:24] <eroomde> yes
[14:24] <Laurenceb> thats why i went for rogallo
[14:24] <chris_99> aha
[14:24] <Laurenceb> and my rogallo got a serious beating coming down from 12km
[14:24] <Laurenceb> and one point it appeared to get flipped upside down
[14:25] <Laurenceb> a parafoil prob wouldnt have recovered
[14:25] <BeaverOne> when do you usually deploy a parachute for these launches?
[14:25] <Laurenceb> rogallo is predeployed, and most people use pre deployed chutes
[14:26] <Laurenceb> as you scale things down they tend to take more of a beating from turbulence
[14:26] <Laurenceb> (very general approximation)
[14:26] <Laurenceb> so I'd be wary of a very small parafoil
[14:26] <BeaverOne> i'd like to use the chute for soft landing, and the rogallo to hit a target landing spot
[14:26] <michal_f> is there any website where I can view notams for poland ?
[14:27] <Laurenceb> BeaverOne: you have to start somewhere - try to stay realistic
[14:27] <chris_99> how small is small Laurenceb
[14:27] <Laurenceb> <1meter max length
[14:27] <Laurenceb> tbh I havent investigated scaling laws in detail
[14:27] <Laurenceb> anyway, ot return to earlier conversation
[14:28] <Laurenceb> I'd worry about BN0055 getting confused
[14:28] <Laurenceb> if the rogallo/parafoil went into a spin
[14:28] <Laurenceb> as its designed for consumer electronics - no sustained acceleration
[14:28] <adamgreig> the video showing it working as you rotate an object in your hand is well and good, but you can do that with just an accelerometer pretty easily
[14:28] <adamgreig> yea
[14:28] <adamgreig> hard to say how good its dynamic modelling really is
[14:29] <adamgreig> and also if you wanted to use gps derived bearing alongside IMU gyros you'll need your own kalman filter anyway
[14:30] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:30] <Laurenceb> that brings you into #taulabs territory
[14:30] <Laurenceb> I did get their EKF running on stm32
[14:30] <Laurenceb> but it wasnt stable in all cases
[14:31] <Laurenceb> I think they have done more work since then, but its is fairly well tuned to their specific hardware
[14:31] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb: http://www.adafruit.com/products/1714
[14:31] <Laurenceb> porting to a new platform isnt trivial
[14:31] <Laurenceb> also it struggled to run at >150hz on stm32 :-/
[14:32] <adamgreig> bit upsetting that wanting "data ready" is "advanced users"
[14:32] <chris_99> interesting! what stm32?
[14:32] <Laurenceb> just an F103
[14:32] <Laurenceb> so F4 would laugh at it
[14:32] <chris_99> ah heh
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[14:32] <Laurenceb> but its still crazy intensive flops wise
[14:33] <chris_99> can you recommend any explainations of the kalman filter out of interest
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[14:33] <Laurenceb> wikipedia is so so
[14:33] <Laurenceb> IMU EKF is kind of a black art
[14:34] <Laurenceb> I havent found a good explanation from first principles
[14:34] <chris_99> EKF?
[14:34] <chris_99> oh Extended Kalman filter?
[14:34] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:35] <Laurenceb> tbh for a simple parafoil type thing id try the ardupilot filter
[14:35] <Laurenceb> taulabs have a nicer reimplementation
[14:35] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/TauLabs/TauLabs/blob/next/flight/Modules/Attitude/attitude.c
[14:36] <chris_99> cool, i'll check that out
[14:36] <Laurenceb> aha
[14:36] <Laurenceb> also a more barebones one
[14:36] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/TauLabs/TauLabs/blob/next/flight/Libraries/StateEstimationFilters/premerlani_dcm.c
[14:37] <Laurenceb> lol @ filename
[14:37] <Laurenceb> blatantly ripped from ardupilot
[14:37] <chris_99> heh
[14:37] <adamgreig> first one is a complementary filter? remember them being hot in quadcopter stuff some years back
[14:37] <Laurenceb> yes, as is the second one
[14:37] <adamgreig> presumably mostly since someone wrote a pdf explaining them as better than kalman filters
[14:38] <Laurenceb> haha yeah
[14:38] <adamgreig> which I guess they are if your metric is "can run on my arduino"
[14:38] <Laurenceb> that too
[14:38] <Laurenceb> then there is this utter insanity
[14:38] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/TauLabs/TauLabs/blob/next/flight/Libraries/insgps16state.c
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[14:38] <Laurenceb> newer version than I have tried - maybe they corrected a typo on line 543
[14:38] <chris_99> what. the. hell.
[14:39] <adamgreig> lol
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[14:39] <adamgreig> tbh that sort of thing is familiar enough
[14:39] <adamgreig> a lot of P updates are zero so it's much nicer to work it out beforehand
[14:39] <chris_99> how on earth do you arrive at the function CovariancePrediction
[14:39] <adamgreig> I mean, nicer to have a python script emit the C, but that might be what they did
[14:39] <Laurenceb> yeah I actually tried to work out how much they had improved it
[14:39] <adamgreig> chris_99: linear algebra by hand in a notebook
[14:39] <adamgreig> it's not as bad as it looks
[14:39] <Laurenceb> its something like 5 times faster
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[14:39] <Laurenceb> that just brute forcing it
[14:39] <adamgreig> yea
[14:40] <Laurenceb> *than
[14:40] <russss> this is the situation where you realise programming languages are actually really shit at maths
[14:40] <adamgreig> https://github.com/cuspaceflight/m2-electronics/blob/master/m2fc/firmware/state_estimation.c#L161-L181
[14:40] <adamgreig> my much simpler covariance update function for a 3d kalman filter just doing altitude, velocity, acceleration in one direction
[14:40] <adamgreig> but you can see the similarities
[14:40] <Laurenceb> but why do you do that onboard the rocket?!
[14:40] <adamgreig> russss: or C is anyway
[14:40] <Laurenceb> staging?
[14:41] <adamgreig> Laurenceb: uhm, so that the rocket knows where it is?
[14:41] <adamgreig> yea, staging, parachutes, recovery, etc
[14:41] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb: thanks a lot for your help on this
[14:41] <Laurenceb> ah ok
[14:41] <Laurenceb> np
[14:41] <adamgreig> the f4 eats it for breakfast
[14:41] <russss> I'm sure that would be an unimaginable pain in the arse to debug if you got one of those array indicies wrong
[14:41] <adamgreig> about 2% available cpu time is spent on the kalman filter
[14:41] <adamgreig> russss: yea but it's a pretty easy thing to check thoroughly
[14:41] <adamgreig> none of my bugs were there
[14:41] <Laurenceb> russss: my conclusions too when my filter was unstable
[14:42] <Laurenceb> but i think my issues were related to config
[14:42] <Laurenceb> they have made it a bit more forgiving on never revisions
[14:42] <Laurenceb> through some architectural tweaks...
[14:43] <Laurenceb> the order different parts run in etc
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[14:45] <adamgreig> still, next time I'd probably try and have python generate the c or something
[14:45] <adamgreig> but that's got its own problems and is a pain to work into build tools
[14:46] <Laurenceb> talking of staging I was watching latest GoFast launch
[14:47] <Laurenceb> they had a very nice staging mechanism
[14:47] <Laurenceb> especially impressive as their rocket was semi spin stabilised
[14:47] <adamgreig> semi?
[14:48] <Laurenceb> it had fins for stabiliy on takeoff
[14:48] <Laurenceb> then span up to approaching 1krpm or something using the fins
[14:48] <adamgreig> cool
[14:48] <adamgreig> what was staging?
[14:48] <Laurenceb> so the clamp needed to be very stiff
[14:49] <adamgreig> looks like DARE are on for tomorrow morning launch, 9am utc
[14:49] <Laurenceb> only for the chute, I'm suprised they bothered
[14:49] <Laurenceb> oh - and yoyo despin for panoramic photos
[14:49] <adamgreig> hah oh nice
[14:49] <adamgreig> yoyo at apogee?
[14:50] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:50] <Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=001IXnp0ogc
[14:50] <adamgreig> are the fins actively controlled?
[14:50] <Laurenceb> no
[14:50] <adamgreig> so just a slight slant to get the rocket spinning?
[14:51] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:51] <adamgreig> the camera's having a great time with the spinning lol
[14:51] <adamgreig> despin is very nice
[14:51] <Laurenceb> yeah really smooth
[14:52] <adamgreig> very clean separation too
[14:52] <chris_99> what do you mean by slight slant to start the spinning? the rocket is fired at an angle?
[14:53] <adamgreig> the fins are canted
[14:53] <chris_99> ahh neat
[14:54] <Laurenceb> nice torque free precession visible from the moon aliasing with the frames
[14:54] <Laurenceb> on the side view
[14:57] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/diyrovers/5CAeROsWLZ4/2u6Y7wusuigJ
[14:57] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb: they're saying the bosch has good results, accurate and also autocalibrates
[15:01] <BeaverOne> http://www.adafruit.com/datasheets/BST_BNO055_DS000_12.pdf
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[15:15] <Laurenceb> yeah but that forum is for ground based applications
[15:16] <eroomde> said laurenceb, derisively
[15:16] <Laurenceb> heh
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[15:22] <Evya89> Does anyone ever tried to control the payload after the balloon explode and tried to make it land in a specific range?
[15:22] <Laurenceb> LOL
[15:22] <Laurenceb> read the scrollback
[15:23] <Evya89> lol.. where? when?
[15:24] <Laurenceb> here
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[15:28] <chris_99> heh
[15:28] Nick change: GeekShad1w -> GeekShadow
[15:30] <BeaverOne> Evya89: that's awesome
[15:30] <BeaverOne> Evya89: seems a lot of us are on the same page with that idea
[15:30] <Evya89> great:) and how are you dealing with that?
[15:31] <Evya89> is there anything i can read somewhere
[15:31] <Evya89> ?
[15:34] <BeaverOne> yeah
[15:34] <BeaverOne> Evya89: https://ukhas.org.uk/projects:parafoil_avr?s[]=rogallo#flight_computer
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[15:50] <deepdesigns> a friend of mine tried to do that but the FAA told him that would be considered a guided missile
[15:50] <deepdesigns> controlling descent
[15:50] <Laurenceb> from my inbox: "we are running auditions for: 'PhD the movie'"
[15:50] <adamgreig> haha christ
[15:50] <adamgreig> not as bad as "king of the nerds"
[15:51] <Laurenceb> I'm on some weird mailing lists
[15:51] <Laurenceb> last week I was emailed by MI6
[15:52] <Laurenceb> 007: license to spam
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[16:04] <Ian_> Laurenceb, we think you might be a person of interest to us - please bring an overnight bag ! eek!
[16:04] <Laurenceb> lol
[16:04] <Laurenceb> free waterboarding holiday and Guantanamo bay resort hotel
[16:04] <Laurenceb> *at
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[16:04] <chris_99> haha
[16:04] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> :)
[16:08] Nick change: michal_f -> michal_f|WRK
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[16:20] <Laurenceb> anyone here used openrocket?
[16:20] <Laurenceb> I'm trying to get it to just plot drag versus mach for a rocket
[16:21] <Laurenceb> nice and simple - no multi axis sim involved
[16:21] <16WAAIJGN> not familiar but sounds interesting
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[16:27] <chris_99> Laurenceb, think i've just done it
[16:27] <chris_99> just go to flight simulations
[16:27] <chris_99> and new simulation, and you can choose X,Y
[16:28] <Laurenceb> yeah but thats for an existing simulation
[16:33] <chris_99> i wonder if openrocket lets you specify a launch altitude
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[16:34] <chris_99> oh it does
[16:34] <Pixelh8> hello how do i register a balloon launch
[16:35] <Pixelh8> ?
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[16:37] <Laurenceb> how babby formed
[16:37] <16WAAIJGN> who was phone!?
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[16:38] <chris_99> well that doesn't seem to work properly, i set the altitude to some random values, but it doesn't seem to change the apogee really
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[16:39] <BeaverOne> Bosch FusionLib provides orientation information in form of quaternion or Euler angles. The algorithm fuses the sensor raw data from 3-axis accelerometer, 3-axis geomagnetic sensor and 3-axis gyroscope in an intelligent way to improve each sensors output. This includes algorithms for offset calibration of each sensor, monitoring of the calibration status and kalman filter fusion to provide distortion-free and refined orienta
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[16:41] <mbales> sounds fancy, itll probably take a lot of over head out of your code
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[16:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DJ0FET_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DJ0FET_chase
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[16:58] <Laurenceb> chris_99: thats altitude from launch location
[16:58] <Laurenceb> having said that I dont trust openrocket
[16:58] <Laurenceb> the behavious with spun rockets is clearly nonsensical
[16:58] <Laurenceb> *behaviour
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[17:03] <chris_99> Laurenceb, yeah the altitude at launch, which seems to have no effect
[17:04] <Laurenceb> I'm really not trusting this
[17:04] <Laurenceb> its a pity as they have clearly tried very hard
[17:05] <Laurenceb> it just seems very flawed - the actual results dont tally well with any of my sim code or with published data
[17:05] <Laurenceb> also its java, so its eating my meory as we speak
[17:05] <chris_99> heh, how does a spun rocket effect the altitude, out of interest
[17:05] <chris_99> *apogee
[17:05] <Laurenceb> going to use about 1G per hour at this rate
[17:06] <Laurenceb> theres virtually no effect on apogee once the rocket is stable
[17:06] <chris_99> aha makes sense
[17:06] <Laurenceb> you need some threshold spin rate for stability
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[17:22] <Laurenceb> hmm
[17:23] <Laurenceb> yeah ogive outperforms power law 0.75 at mach 3
[17:23] <Laurenceb> thats not right
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[17:47] <deepdesigns> babby lefd
[17:47] <deepdesigns> I was looking at the same thing
[17:48] <deepdesigns> to me it looks like you download the app here https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide, put the habhub url
[17:48] <deepdesigns> and you're golden
[17:48] <deepdesigns> is that correct?
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[18:02] <deepdesigns> anyone know if gorilla glue will hold up long enough?
[18:02] <deepdesigns> epoxy
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[18:06] <Ian_> Long enough for what? Gorilla Glue is not epoxy, but a urethane gap filling glue.
[18:07] <deepdesigns> its gorilla glue epoxy
[18:08] <Ian_> My experience with wood has generally been good, but with some wood in a damp environment, the joints came apart in a consistent manner.
[18:08] <mbales> gluing toghether the word parts of that frame?
[18:08] <Ian_> Oh, OK, two part epoxy?
[18:08] <deepdesigns> wood on wood yeah
[18:09] <deepdesigns> we're attaching the death star to a balsa wood plank
[18:09] <deepdesigns> and gluing it
[18:09] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:09] <Ian_> Wood on wood, a number of lap joints on 25mm timber for an eke - beehive stuff
[18:10] <Ian_> Hello Sven
[18:11] <mbales> id punch a whole or two in the deathstar and use zipties
[18:11] <deepdesigns> the death star sits on a bamboo dowel, which is connected to a bearing and slotted into a small pine square
[18:12] <deepdesigns> the dowel is internal
[18:12] <mbales> ah
[18:12] <deepdesigns> it was important to the design team that it spin.. or something
[18:12] <deepdesigns> ;-;
[18:13] <mbales> i imagine gorilla glue will hold, its only gotta last a couple of hours
[18:14] <deepdesigns> http://imgur.com/xDU66Tk
[18:14] <deepdesigns> that plank is wayyy too long, but that is the general idea
[18:15] <deepdesigns> gopro is mounted to the far end
[18:15] <deepdesigns> actually, both of them, one looking down, one looking at the death star which sits at the other end on the block
[18:15] <deepdesigns> we just have to attach that plank+blocks to the frame
[18:16] <deepdesigns> those blocks are balsa actually
[18:17] <deepdesigns> my money is on the pumpkin being destroyed
[18:18] <mbales> balsa seems a bit flimsy for that
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[18:19] <mbales> may be good to double it up
[18:20] <deepdesigns> good idea.. we have plenty
[18:20] <deepdesigns> the pumpkin is 280g
[18:20] <mbales> wow
[18:20] <mbales> thats a lot for that balsa
[18:21] <mbales> is the pumpkin plastic?
[18:21] <deepdesigns> foam
[18:22] <deepdesigns> do you think its worth it to use bamboo to strengthen it, or at least as a backup?
[18:22] <mbales> balsa is very bad at taking weight in the middle of a span like that
[18:23] <daveake> Yeah the balsa will very easily break
[18:24] <daveake> option 1 - run a support line upwards from the pumpkin
[18:24] <daveake> option 2 - use acrylic instead of the balsa
[18:24] <deepdesigns> acrylic.. genius
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[18:24] <daveake> e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1FXKfw-r3c
[18:25] <daveake> works very well
[18:25] <deepdesigns> correction
[18:25] <deepdesigns> its poplar
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[18:26] <deepdesigns> oh shit it looks like its floating
[18:26] <deepdesigns> nice
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[18:26] <deepdesigns> "we tested it" they said
[18:26] <deepdesigns> how?
[18:27] <deepdesigns> "we hit eachother with it pretty hard"
[18:27] <mbales> ha
[18:27] <daveake> The company I used will cut to size, round off corners, polish the cut edges, and drill holes, all for next to nothing
[18:28] <mbales> trouble is the short timeline hes on
[18:28] <deepdesigns> we have plenty of people
[18:28] <deepdesigns> to run around
[18:29] <deepdesigns> they just saw the video and want to use acrylic now :P
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[18:29] <daveake> lol
[18:29] <deepdesigns> Jim is coming at 3 to check out the tracker
[18:29] <deepdesigns> ct
[18:30] <mbales> very cool
[18:30] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[18:30] <deepdesigns> someone is going to try to find some, but the poplar does seem reasonably strong
[18:31] <deepdesigns> I don't know how to test it.. scientifically..
[18:31] <mbales> tie it to a length of string and swing it around really fast
[18:32] <mbales> with science
[18:33] <deepdesigns> - Cave Jonson, We're done here.
[18:33] <deepdesigns> my dad asked me if I was going up in the balloon... adorable
[18:34] <mbales> not if everything goes as planned
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[18:34] <deepdesigns> that would be a big balloon
[18:35] <deepdesigns> or like, 3 dozen of them
[18:35] <deepdesigns> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSC71V7bUl4
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[18:39] <chris_99> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Walters
[18:43] <michal_f> I rented a regulator today and it says it output up to 32 liters per minute. shouldn't I get something bigger ?
[18:43] <michal_f> 32 l/m means almost 2 hours of inflating a 2.5 m^3 baloon
[18:44] <michal_f> well maybe not 2 hours, more like 80 miniutes. but it seems long
[18:47] <mbales> that does seem a bit slow
[18:49] <deepdesigns> I hadn't thought of that.. how long does it usually take?
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[18:55] <mbales> depends on your balloon and regulator
[18:56] <mbales> its been a while since i did anything larger than a 300g balloon, but that takes me about 15 -20 minutes, though i tend to inflate them slowly
[18:57] Nick change: iNeo -> PE0SAT
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[20:03] <michal_f> can anybody recommend raspberryPI camera options for HAB operation ?
[20:03] <michal_f> bitrate, quality etc.
[20:04] <mbales> still o video or both?
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[20:06] <michal_f> both
[20:06] <michal_f> interleaved
[20:07] <michal_f> I decided to switch between video and photo, to save power and disk space
[20:07] <craag> If you're triggering from bash, use >2000ms for 'warmup'.
[20:07] <craag> Also use matrix metering
[20:08] <craag> (for photos, I didn't try video)
[20:09] <michal_f> great, thanks!
[20:09] <michal_f> I also added still_stats option
[20:09] <daveake> Also add -st to avoid pink clouds
[20:09] <daveake> and use matrix metering
[20:10] <michal_f> exposure=auto ?
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[20:17] <fsphil> does it have a fixed exposure option these days?
[20:19] <michal_f> there's exposure_mode=off, this disables the camera’s automatic gain control
[20:19] <michal_f> but I did not check what effect it gives
[20:19] <michal_f> )btw. I use picamera py module)
[20:20] <fsphil> fixed exposure would work better I suspect, get it right for the ground and it should be good for the whole flight
[20:23] <michal_f> here's more detail: https://picamera.readthedocs.org/en/release-1.10/api_camera.html search for 'exposure_mode'
[20:23] <michal_f> it's probable that it's possible to do what you describe
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[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> oh well
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> what I have to say is THANK YOU for all the people running the channel :)
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[21:11] <fsphil> thanks man, it's difficult pretending to be 183 users
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome
[21:16] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[21:17] <daveake> I couldn't swim the channel, let alone run it
[21:18] <fsphil> hah
[21:18] <jonsowman> yeah it's exhausting
[21:18] <jonsowman> pretty much a full time job
[21:18] <jonsowman> :x
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:35] <Laurenceb_> this is interesting
[21:35] <Laurenceb_> I've tried aerolab and openrocket with tank shell designs
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[21:36] <Laurenceb_> openrocket outperforms aerolab when there are multiple conical transitions - aerolab tends to overestimate drag
[21:36] <michal_f> daveake: do you have any idea how long does PITS operate with four AA energizer cells ?
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> but with simpler designs aerolab is much more accurate, drga typically 10% too high from aerolab
[21:36] <Laurenceb_> and about 65% too high with openrocket
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> tank shells as wind tunnel data can be found on dtic.mil
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[21:42] <daveake> 20 hours or so
[21:42] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb_: https://ukhas.org.uk/projects:mihab:glider
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> erm yeah... that looks familiar
[21:43] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> in fact I seem to remember writing that
[21:45] <michal_f> thanks. I'm trying to estimate my setup run time, it's good to have smth. to compare
[21:46] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb_: if i go the arduino route, this is going to be expensive
[21:46] <BeaverOne> and heavy
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> true
[21:47] <BeaverOne> might go over 200 grams
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> but I'd use an arduino for ground testing
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> seriously, you can plug the stuff in and just port code over
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> arduino is atmega168/328 whatever so it should run the code
[21:47] <BeaverOne> won't it get complicated to port code over if you're using a bunch of libraries?
[21:49] <BeaverOne> i'm thinking right now, it's very complicated in theory to do PID control on both orientation and position (longitude and latitude) for a glider (rogallo of sorts)
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> there are no libraries
[21:49] <BeaverOne> having trouble even googling relevant results for PID control loops involving position
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> my code is straight c - just need avr-gcc
[21:49] <BeaverOne> ah
[21:50] <craag> +1 for straight c
[21:50] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb_: http://pastebin.com/6GvYn0AK
[21:50] <BeaverOne> i'm using several libraries there
[21:51] <BeaverOne> Laurenceb_: i'd like to control the servo also based on position (latitude, longitude, and altitude) and also orientation
[21:51] <BeaverOne> is that craziness?
[21:51] <Laurenceb_> yes
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> you are overthinking it
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> you just need the angle between the current heading and the desired heading
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> thats all thats fed into the PID
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> bbl
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[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[22:11] <BeaverOne> gn
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[22:30] <darsie> Why have I heard about this chan only now?
[22:31] <darsie> hi
[22:33] <stilldavid> I'd call it perfect timing. :)
[22:36] <darsie> ok :)
[22:37] <darsie> I've been in #space for years, I think.
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[22:55] <gonzo_> well, this is near-space
[22:56] <darsie> Yep, but rockets, rockoons, ...
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[23:30] <BeaverOne> darsie: rockoons with Cubesat (telescope) payload to enter space?
[23:36] <darsie> I'd love to launch to orbit, but I haven't made a single properly flying rocket, yet.
[23:36] <darsie> gn
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[23:40] <BeaverOne> darsie: same, heh
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[00:00] --- Thu Oct 15 2015