highaltitude.log.20151007

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[08:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03Seed2 after 038 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Seed2
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[08:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03OK1COM_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=OK1COM_chase
[09:02] <SA6BSS> !dial seed2
[09:02] <SpacenearUS> 03SA6BSS: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[09:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HORUSLORA - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HORUSLORA
[09:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03FORESTHAB - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=FORESTHAB
[09:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SDCCK_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SDCCK_chase
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[09:53] <michal_f> hello
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[09:55] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0315 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
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[10:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5QI_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5QI_chase
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[10:25] <michal_f> !flights
[10:25] <SpacenearUS> 03michal_f: Current flights: 03SP9UOB pico 20 - 144.250MHz DOMEX16 10(dc08), 03BGS Launch 10(5fa3)
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[10:27] <eroomde> time for a new tub of solderpaste
[10:27] <eroomde> the metric for progress in life
[10:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> :)
[10:27] <Darkside> eroomde: also new bottle of liquid flux
[10:27] <eroomde> like filling up a notebook
[10:27] <Darkside> that stuff seems to last forever
[10:27] <eroomde> i don't use that much flux
[10:27] <eroomde> i have a few fluxpens in my toolbox tho
[10:28] <eroomde> but i don't do that much rework so i don;t need that much flux anymore
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[10:37] <SA6BSS> wow, k6rpt traveld fast!!
[10:40] <gonzo_> I rescued 2gal of the stuff from a work's chuck out
[10:41] <gonzo_> only used a few mm in the bottom of a jam jar
[10:41] <gonzo_> )thought it was IPA when I saved it)
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[11:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[12:33] <M0XIN> Ooooh, new SDR# version: http://www.rtl-sdr.com/sdr-updated-to-revision-1400-sdrtouch-updated-to-v2-6/
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[12:50] <ikeUoN> hi
[12:54] <eroomde> you've lost an M
[12:54] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[12:55] <Laurenceb> funtimes
[12:55] <Laurenceb> new stm32 revision gets fried when I plug in usb connector
[12:57] <eroomde> that sounds like you've done something bad
[12:58] <Laurenceb> yeah, theres a voltage transient when the jack in plugged in
[12:58] <Laurenceb> literally thousands of boards in circulation, no issues
[12:59] <Laurenceb> ST release a new revision and everything starts breaking after ~3 months
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[12:59] <Laurenceb> now we have to recall a ton of boards and swap resistors :-/
[12:59] <jokke_> Laurenceb: sounds like cent saved in the wrong place
[13:00] <zyp> sounds like what happens when you rely on undocumented specs
[13:00] <Laurenceb> it was more of an oversight
[13:00] <ikeUoN> some erratas can almost rival the orginal datasheet in length... :P
[13:00] <Laurenceb> if the USB voltage is up around 5.5v, then the usb sense pin voltage goes over spec for ~100µs
[13:01] <Laurenceb> by 400mV
[13:01] <ikeUoN> O.o
[13:01] <Laurenceb> thats enough to eventually fry the newer revision ICs
[13:01] <zyp> is there a separate usb transient suppressor chip on this board?
[13:01] <Laurenceb> only after a few months of normal use
[13:01] <Laurenceb> zyp: yes
[13:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ouch is there a link to the info ?
[13:02] <Laurenceb> theres no "info", this is just what we worked out by deduction
[13:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah right, so they haven't quietly admitted to it then ?
[13:02] <Laurenceb> no
[13:04] <ikeUoN> oops bbs
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[13:05] <MikeUoN> thats better ;)
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[13:28] <fsphil> Mm
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[13:32] <malgar> hi, last year I used a website showing the radio propagation. It was possible also to select the frequency and eventually earth's curvature
[13:32] <malgar> do you remember the url?
[13:32] <malgar> giving a receiving and transmitting location it gets a simple diagram showing the line of sight
[13:33] <malgar> with topography
[13:33] <fsphil> http://www.heywhatsthat.com/
[13:36] <malgar> that one! :D thank you!
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[14:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03stratofly_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=stratofly_chase
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[14:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N5YML-7 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N5YML-7
[14:37] <eroomde> new high current drivers boards https://www.dropbox.com/s/ieiosvlhnbyomwy/2015-10-07%2015.26.05.jpg?dl=0
[14:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K4UAH-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K4UAH-12
[14:42] <fsphil> how high?
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[14:44] <eroomde> er like 12A/ch or something
[14:44] <fsphil> is the gold strip just for decoration?
[14:44] <eroomde> note massive
[14:44] <eroomde> no, one can solder copper braid down
[14:44] <eroomde> for extra current
[14:44] <eroomde> if needed
[14:44] <fsphil> ah ha
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[15:34] <MikeUoN> very pretty, gotta love repeating patterns
[15:35] <MikeUoN> Are those Wurth capacitors?
[15:35] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[15:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03F5APQ_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=F5APQ_chase
[15:52] <michal_f> I remember there was an option to watch a payload as a KML file inside google earth
[15:53] <michal_f> is it still possible ?
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[15:54] <craag> michal_f: Click the '?' on the right of tracker.hbhub
[15:54] <craag> then scroll down
[15:55] <craag> "Want to track with Google Earth instead?
[15:55] <craag> Just click here"
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[16:01] <michal_f> thanks !
[16:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Sensible man ;-)
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[16:10] <autoteach> would i get proseucted if ignore caa permison?
[16:11] <michal_f> is it possible to have a KML for just a single payload ? (I know I can select one inside gEarth)
[16:11] <autoteach> i am in london but cant launch beacause of controlled airspace
[16:11] <fsphil> if the CAA didn't give permission for a location, there's likely a very good reason
[16:11] <fsphil> and there you go
[16:12] <michal_f> !flights
[16:12] <SpacenearUS> 03michal_f: Current flights: 03SP9UOB pico 20 - 144.250MHz DOMEX16 10(dc08), 03BGS Launch 10(5fa3)
[16:12] <fsphil> so yes, you could cause a good deal of trouble launching in london
[16:12] <autoteach> ok, thanks for cllarifying
[16:13] <fsphil> plus your flight would likely end up in the north sea
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[16:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> michal_f, Yes you can get it by editing the KML alreay loaded in GE
[16:13] <autoteach> fsphill thanks you
[16:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> this one is set-up to track teh flight tomorrow Properties |link http://spacenear.us/tracker/datanew.php?format=kml&vehicles=bgs*
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[16:19] <michal_f> Geoff-G8DHE: perfect !
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[16:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> use a ; to seperate multipile flights
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[16:33] <M0XIN> Hmmmm
[16:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03EAGLE1 after 0319 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EAGLE1
[16:44] <eroomde> so these Wuerth SMD LEDS have a little green triangle on the bottom
[16:44] <eroomde> nice and easy marking so you can get them the right way round
[16:45] <eroomde> i happily soldered about 32 of them down last night
[16:45] <eroomde> it turns out after none of them worked that the triangle is pointing to the anode
[16:45] <eroomde> i.e. the opposite direction to the diode symbol triangle
[16:46] <eroomde> if anyone from Wuerth SMD labelling dept is reading this, fuck you.
[16:46] <Miek> agreed, i've done exactly the same thing before :(
[16:47] <Miek> i chalked it up to my own error, forgot about it and got a few panels back from assembly with the same issue
[16:49] <eroomde> it's maddening
[16:49] <eroomde> i usually check with the diode meter on my fluke
[16:50] <eroomde> but this time (not used these ones before) i thought 'oh brilliant! an unambiguous mark at last!' and dived in
[16:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BGS1 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BGS1
[16:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BGSbus-r_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BGSbus-r_chase
[16:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BGS2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BGS2
[16:52] <LazyLeopard> About as helpful as having two transistors of (allegedly) the same type with different pin orders...
[16:52] <MikeUoN> That is redic
[16:53] <MikeUoN> *stupid, a) just about every device points to cathode, and b) it's not like the schematic symbol points to anode...
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[17:02] Nick change: michal_f -> michal_f_AFK
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[17:11] <Ian_> Poor choice of symbol, probably made in isolation and surely a bit of a symptom of our times :)
[17:15] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[17:18] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[17:20] <MikeUoN> :P
[17:21] <MikeUoN> talking of soldering... Check this out... http://elm-chan.org/docs/avr/dma.jpeg
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[17:27] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[17:28] <MikeUoN> hi
[17:28] <MikeUoN> hows it going
[17:28] <Lunar_Lander> quite good thanks and with you?
[17:33] <MikeUoN> ok
[17:34] <MikeUoN> Had my first ever poster presentation today
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[17:42] <Lunar_Lander> how did it go?
[17:44] <MikeUoN> Pretty boring if I'm honest. :P
[17:44] <MikeUoN> I was the only electronic engineer there...
[17:45] <MikeUoN> Everyone else was mechanical or industrial, and as such no one walking around really read my poster or asked any questions. :/
[17:46] <MikeUoN> There was free cake though, so I guess that made up for it somewhat. ;)
[17:46] <Lunar_Lander> :D nice
[17:47] <Lunar_Lander> some fun with 4047 and 4066 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1lke6hPHKJDb0l3V0lOZ1BjQmc/view :)
[17:47] <Lunar_Lander> (and scope!)
[17:47] <MikeUoN> nice one!
[17:47] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[17:47] <Lunar_Lander> the best discovery was that the 4047 has two antiparallel outputs
[17:48] <MikeUoN> I gtg before dinner closes, I'll ask some questions when I get back.
[17:48] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:48] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[17:50] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[18:09] <MikeUoN> Lunar_Lander what other discoveries? :D
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1lke6hPHKJDRGR6T2tiaFhGMGc/view that strange falling edge behind the 4066
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> that was quite interesting
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[18:11] <MikeUoN> yeah, saw that on the first image
[18:13] <MikeUoN> v cool
[18:13] <MikeUoN> What are you planning to use them for
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> that was just a test
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> did you see the conference talks?
[18:14] <Lunar_Lander> there was one from the Uni Reading where they showed a device to measure visibility range in clouds with flashing LEDs being reflected off water
[18:15] <MikeUoN> yeah
[18:15] <Lunar_Lander> they made a lock-in basically, looking for the signal from the flashing LED
[18:16] <Lunar_Lander> for that they switch between the normal signal and the inverted signal from the receiving photodiode
[18:16] <arjunnaha> Just a quick question, has anyone done any launches from public parks?
[18:16] <Lunar_Lander> and I wanted to try the 4047 as oscillator for the system and if I can use the 4066 for the switching of the signals
[18:16] <Lunar_Lander> and to see the behaviour I hooked up the LEDs and the scope
[18:16] <eroomde> arjunnaha: yes
[18:17] <eroomde> ox uni parks at least
[18:17] <MikeUoN> nice one LL
[18:17] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[18:18] <Lunar_Lander> I was just irritated I must say by that waveform
[18:18] <Lunar_Lander> there is one thing I did not do, connecting the unused switches in the IC to ground
[18:18] <Lunar_Lander> and I read you should do that on 4000 devices
[18:19] <MikeUoN> good practice in most circumstances, I believe
[18:19] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[18:19] <Lunar_Lander> brb in a few minutes
[18:19] <MikeUoN> Read an article about unused op amps being left unconnected causing mischief...
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[18:22] <eroomde> MikeUoN: yes, don't do that
[18:22] <eroomde> just feed them back on themselves to stay at 0
[18:23] <MikeUoN> always better to put them against something
[18:23] <MikeUoN> indeed
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[18:24] <eroomde> well not 0, but half way between the rails
[18:24] <eroomde> which is often but not always 0
[18:25] <MikeUoN> yeah
[18:26] <MikeUoN> you sometimes see people tie both inputs to ground or something...
[18:26] <MikeUoN> not good
[18:27] <eroomde> indeed
[18:27] <eroomde> well i guess if you want to see whether the input offset voltage is +ve or -ve...
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[18:29] <MikeUoN> i guess...
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[18:32] <eroomde> i wasn't necessarily being serious
[18:33] <MikeUoN> :P
[18:34] <MikeUoN> I dont always get the tone right, sorry.
[18:34] <MikeUoN> how was your day
[18:34] <Lunar_Lander> back
[18:35] <eroomde> i soldered
[18:35] <eroomde> some customers came
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the tips mike and ed
[18:35] <eroomde> i soldered a bit more
[18:35] <Lunar_Lander> hi mclane_
[18:35] <eroomde> electronics day
[18:35] <MikeUoN> sounds fun
[18:35] <MikeUoN> Those drivers look mint
[18:35] <mclane_> nAbend
[18:35] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: the moral of the opamp thing is- connect the interverting input to half-way between the rails (potential divider between rails) and just wrap the output back to the inverting input
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
[18:36] <eroomde> s/interverting/noninverting
[18:36] <eroomde> no idea what interverting was meant to be
[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[18:36] <eroomde> MikeUoN: they're nice
[18:36] <eroomde> 8 half bridges
[18:37] <MikeUoN> Were those Wurth caps too?
[18:37] <eroomde> per-pwm-cycle current measuring and limiting
[18:37] <eroomde> yes
[18:37] <MikeUoN> very nice
[18:37] <eroomde> they're for an animatronics thing this weekend
[18:37] <eroomde> a break from rocket engines
[18:38] <MikeUoN> cool
[18:38] <MikeUoN> Is it a conference or exhibition type thing?
[18:38] <eroomde> hack weekend
[18:38] <eroomde> isle of wight
[18:38] <eroomde> big robot dinosaurs at a theme park
[18:38] <MikeUoN> O.o
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[18:38] <MikeUoN> any pics?
[18:38] <eroomde> backstory reasonably long and complicated, but anyway here i am making the new driver cards
[18:39] <eroomde> dinosaurs came with some spectacularly dodge chinese electronics
[18:39] <garymortimer> evening all
[18:39] <MikeUoN> probably why they went extinct ;)
[18:39] <MikeUoN> hi gary
[18:40] <eroomde> http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/05/c6/60/03/blackgang-chine.jpg
[18:40] <eroomde> there are lots of dinosaurs but that's the trex
[18:41] <MikeUoN> what sort of power do those things run off
[18:41] <eroomde> 24V
[18:41] <eroomde> power depends on the joint
[18:41] <fsphil> fossil fuel
[18:42] <MikeUoN> :P
[18:42] <eroomde> t-rex neck was about 8A peak
[18:42] <eroomde> eyelids a lot less
[18:42] <MikeUoN> wowza
[18:42] <fsphil> how big is that?
[18:42] <eroomde> full-size
[18:42] <eroomde> i could climb into the mouth probably
[18:42] <fsphil> I'll have to head down there someday
[18:47] <garymortimer> So....
[18:47] <garymortimer> I'm googling about to see if I can find the answer to perhaps a very silly question
[18:48] <garymortimer> flextrack
[18:48] <garymortimer> LoRA
[18:48] <garymortimer> wiring digram
[18:48] <garymortimer> I see the words
[18:48] <garymortimer> but they make no mention of + and -
[18:48] <garymortimer> I would assume it needs power as a given
[18:48] <garymortimer> https://github.com/HABduino/FlexTrack/blob/master/lora.ino
[18:49] <garymortimer> I am the master of getting it wrong
[18:51] <Ian_> At least the dinosaurs didn't turn out to be Chinese dragons :)
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/2015/press.html
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> missed it
[18:51] <Lunar_Lander> :(
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[18:53] <Upu> garymortimer yeah it needs power :)
[18:53] <craag> garymortimer: Take a look at the rfm95 datasheet
[18:53] <craag> https://philcrump.co.uk/images/2/26/RFM95_96_97_98W_Datasheet.pdf
[18:53] <Upu> and that code is relatively old and not updated
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[18:53] <Upu> https://github.com/daveake/FlexTrack
[18:54] <garymortimer> Thanks chaps just making sure
[18:54] <MikeUoN> I'll cross my fingers for your next year, Lunar_Lander ;)
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[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
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[19:12] <eroomde> if anyone is after a dial indicator, this is a really very good price
[19:12] <eroomde> https://uk.farnell.com/mitutoyo/2046s/dial-indicator-10mm/dp/4415980?catalogId=15001&storeId=10151&storeId=10151&krypto=W%2FfFnJ7yLJdJd4oYP6xUgHel46G08impfZ9RERtP6nqmi%2BPBizf6WqMRkS7q0Y28aCfMn19DILa6%0AO9F3KlMcO33qWvqjksuaElqaTNOQYcwv3%2BOwT4%2Fzp59QOsSnddoKIHzdXZsr0CG%2F%2B7I7UnbTw5gf%0A9rmorrb8cCFkhUeRrY3tj6c4xreoLBAOiDDotsth02JBqiF2Gh5cQIj80%2FGQnypZkBPH1%2Bsuknqn%0AIZ%2FwTztjK%2B7SmxDDrNRGQCdQ
[19:12] <eroomde> 0nvQYGanfKWKVzk3oOMZcHcwUcW7fc7O4o59
[19:12] <eroomde> whoah sorry
[19:12] <eroomde> one sec will try and fix that url
[19:13] <eroomde> https://uk.farnell.com/mitutoyo/2046s/dial-indicator-10mm/dp/4415980
[19:13] <eroomde> that's the best price i've found for that on the net
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[19:19] <arjunnaha> Is there rolling permission for Churchill?
[19:19] <eroomde> 3 days notice i believe
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[19:19] <arjunnaha> Who would I need to contact to launch there?
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[19:31] <arjunnaha> Anyone from CUSF there?
[19:32] <eroomde> at churchill?
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[19:43] <arjunnaha> I thought that CUSF was churchill...
[19:43] <craag> That's their launch site yes
[19:44] <craag> Best plan would be to drop them an email and see if they can help you out
[19:45] <craag> The site requires one of the them to be present for the launch - so it's reliant on their free time too.
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[19:50] <arjunnaha> That would be helpful for a first launch
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[19:53] <Chimpusmax_ios> arjunnaha: Rocketboy has always been very helpful with launches from Elsworth. Just up the road from Churchill
[19:54] <craag> where are you based arjunnaha ?
[19:54] <arjunnaha> Reading crag
[19:54] <arjunnaha> *craag
[19:55] <craag> Ok, a bit shorter in the other direction is also SUSF's launch site in the new forest
[19:56] <craag> more restricted on wind directions for launch, but another option, might be worth dropping susf an email too incase cambridge doesn't work out
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[19:56] <craag> http://susf.co.uk/contact/
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[19:58] <arjunnaha> For the date, doesn't look like nature is helping us in any way!! - http://imgur.com/I75p5uB
[19:59] <craag> haha
[19:59] <craag> our site is in the new forest to the west, but that doesn't help at all :P
[20:00] <arjunnaha> God damn the wind
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[20:00] <craag> We have launched from other places
[20:00] <craag> including one near fleet
[20:01] <craag> (im an alumnus of susf)
[20:01] <mattbrejza> lol that fleet one
[20:01] <mattbrejza> perhaps not ideal
[20:02] <craag> arjunnaha: I assume you've looked at using your local school grounds?
[20:03] <craag> (iirc you're doing a launch with your school?)
[20:03] <craag> Anyway - see what cusf/steve say, they'd be happy to help if they can.
[20:03] <arjunnaha> Yes, CAA have said we're too close to the "Controlled London Airspace"
[20:04] <arjunnaha> Fair enough
[20:04] <craag> Ok, well done for finding out ahead of time :)
[20:04] <mattbrejza> the 'fleet' one was actually newbury for the record
[20:06] <arjunnaha> craag: about 5 days ahead of time!
[20:06] <craag> Ah I see
[20:06] <arjunnaha> Worst thing is I sent them said permission slip 28 DAYS AGO
[20:07] <arjunnaha> And they only replied to my follow up email to issue the NOTAM
[20:07] <craag> Some people have found out on the day..
[20:07] <arjunnaha> haha
[20:07] <arjunnaha> unlucky
[20:07] <arjunnaha> Doesn't leave me much time, but better than nothing
[20:07] <craag> yep
[20:07] <craag> be optimistic :)
[20:07] <arjunnaha> Half-full ;-)
[20:08] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[20:08] <arjunnaha> *double message, excuse me
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[20:28] <michal_f> I have a dilemma... I have an Airspy and an RTL dongle. Which one to take to chase car and which to leave at base station ?
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[20:28] <michal_f> tough choice
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[20:32] <mbales> bring the rtl leave the airspy
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[20:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Airspy will be more stable than a dongle in the car, less tuning problems
[20:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> dongle at home running all the time in a room will drift less than in a car
[20:38] <michal_f> I also have an old AOR 1500 handheld scanner
[20:38] <michal_f> for recovery
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[21:47] <fsphil> aurora visible over the northern uk atm
[21:48] <mattbrejza> as a northern uk'er can you see them?
[21:48] <fsphil> I am currently indoors. correcting this shortly
[21:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ARY1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ARY1
[21:51] <MikeUoN> how far north is north
[21:52] <craag> anywhere north of watford is north
[21:52] <craag> :P
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[21:52] <mattbrejza> watford/thames etc...
[21:52] <mattbrejza> tamar...
[21:53] <fsphil> clouded out
[21:54] <MikeUoN> lol
[21:56] <fsphil> clouds are pretty too....
[21:58] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
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[22:07] <BeaverOne> https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=85&v=QC-VKFH3JfU
[22:11] <fsphil> that's a big tree
[22:19] <michal_f> !flights
[22:20] <SpacenearUS> 03michal_f: Current flights: 03SP9UOB pico 20 - 144.250MHz DOMEX16 10(dc08), 03BGS Launch 10(5fa3)
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[22:41] <fsphil> aurora is kind of visible on the horzion
[22:47] <fsphil> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQv7yNUWwAESpEQ.jpg
[22:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> send up a balloon!
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[22:53] <fsphil> it's difficult enough focusing it on a steady tripod :)
[22:54] <BeaverOne> is it possible to daisy chain multiple high altitude balloons together for additional lift?
[22:57] <fsphil> it wouldn't gain you anything
[22:57] <fsphil> * totally unscientific statement
[22:58] <mbales> sure you would get additional lift, but depending where you are launching from there are legal requirements for larger payloads
[22:58] <fsphil> the best gain is just to use a larger balloon
[22:58] <mbales> also getting them setup would be a real pain
[22:59] <fsphil> and more lifting gas
[22:59] <mbales> 3000 gram balloon is a fair amount of lift
[22:59] <BeaverOne> i'm hoping to eventually be able to launch a rocket with an additional payload from the balloon
[22:59] <mbales> how big a rocket?
[23:00] <BeaverOne> enough to get a cubesat up
[23:00] <mbales> ive looked into that as well
[23:00] <BeaverOne> telescope cubesat
[23:00] <mbales> your looking at around a 15 foot rocket depending on fuel
[23:01] <mbales> from the research ive done
[23:01] <BeaverOne> launching from what altitude?
[23:01] <mbales> ~100k feet
[23:01] <BeaverOne> wow
[23:01] <BeaverOne> how much would that weigh?
[23:02] <mbales> cant remember the exact number but i think fuel alone was around 150lbs
[23:02] <SIbot> In real units: 150 lbs = 68.0 kg
[23:02] <mbales> yes yes sorry for my freedom units
[23:02] <BeaverOne> that's crazy
[23:02] <mbales> yeah, thats a big balloon
[23:02] <mbales> more helium than i can afford
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[23:06] <mbales> but i am planning on doing a small rocket just for laughs
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[23:06] <mbales> using my pet project: tracksoar.com
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[23:07] <BeaverOne> mbales: i'm building a GPS location tracker currently
[23:07] <mbales> nice
[23:07] <BeaverOne> mbales: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100852237@N06/albums/72157659594396151
[23:08] <BeaverOne> mbales: http://pastebin.com/3m2TiSiT
[23:08] <BeaverOne> looking at tracksoar.com
[23:09] <BeaverOne> heh
[23:09] <mbales> some friendly advice, GSM / cell is not allowed to transmit while airborn
[23:10] <mbales> and from experience they dont work above 10k feet anyway
[23:10] <BeaverOne> oh
[23:11] <BeaverOne> it's illegal?
[23:11] <mbales> in the US yes
[23:11] <mbales> sorry should have specified
[23:11] <BeaverOne> mbales: your tracksoar is fully funded?
[23:12] <mbales> nope, launches on Friday
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[23:13] <BeaverOne> real nice video about the launch announcement
[23:13] <mbales> but i think we can pull it off
[23:14] <mbales> thanks, that took a lot of editing, haha
[23:14] <m0jfp> bgs1 and 2
[23:15] <BeaverOne> man, your device is going to be profoundly smaller than my illegal transmitter
[23:15] <m0jfp> going to try and track in the morning any idea on exact launch time
[23:15] <mbales> that was my goal when building it, make it tiny and all in one
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[23:18] <mbales> plus there isnt a mass produced open source tracker out there at the moment
[23:19] <BeaverOne> mbales: do you think a gsm tracker could get by for retrieval purposes once it drops to the ground?
[23:20] <mbales> as long as it lands where there is cell coverage and its able to aquire a signal yes
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[23:21] <mbales> and hopefully your gps worked and its able to transmit a valid location
[23:22] <BeaverOne> i just wonder if i need logic to re-establish a connection to the gsm towers after it loses connection
[23:23] <mbales> thats a good question, I havent played with those GSM shields much, but i think theyre smart enough to do it on their own
[23:23] <mbales> citation btw: http://www.highaltitudescience.com/pages/federal-communications-commission-22-925
[23:24] <BeaverOne> i wonder what the reasoning is
[23:26] <mbales> no idea, but they dont make great trackers anyway so no real loss
[23:26] <mbales> they are decent for datalogging though
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[23:27] <BeaverOne> what kind of radio works well?
[23:28] <mbales> in the US 2 meter (144 - 148 mhz) is generally the standard on weather balloons, if you want to go the unlicensed route Ive seen people use 900mhz links too
[23:32] <mbales> actually
[23:33] <mbales> if you want unlicensed here is my highest recommendation: get a spot3 tracker
[23:34] <mbales> it will work just about anywhere, it will report to ~60k feet, and pick up once it goes back below 60k
[23:34] <mbales> Ive used it on all my flights but ine and its a champ
[23:36] <mbales> if you keep an eye on west marine they go on sale for half price with a mail in rebate
[23:36] <Ian_> Best bet in the US is to team up with a Ham Operator and have him use 2m APRS. Spot is great if it picks up a signal on the way down, but doesn't let you know where the flight is going. If it lands in a ditch or upside down then you may well be stuffed
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[23:37] <mbales> I agree with you Ian, HAM is the way but he seemed to be shying away from that option
[23:38] <Ian_> I'm sure that the wisdom will become apparent after his first or second lost flight
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[23:39] <Ian_> Cubesat . . . Hmmmm not a pico flight then :)
[23:40] <mbales> it is painful to lose a payload
[23:42] <Ian_> It's not something we tend to plan on except for floaters and then the object is the reward not recovery
[23:42] <mbales> exactly
[23:43] <mbales> im working on a floater version of my board, fair amount of work i must say
[23:43] <craag> Floater and timing critical flights :)
[23:43] <Ian_> is that a Lora2(?) reference
[23:44] <craag> No, reference to the flight we dumped in the channel :D
[23:44] <craag> (eclipse)
[23:44] <Ian_> Ah, but at least the Portland episode came home, albeit the worse for wear
[23:45] <craag> yes we weren't expecting that..
[23:45] <Ian_> Entente Cordiale
[23:45] <craag> had the pis along at our meeting last night to show the freshers - they still smell quite salty!
[23:46] <craag> BeaverOne: Cubesat to orbit from a rockoon is quite a challenge.
[23:47] <BeaverOne> mbales: http://www.universetoday.com/115626/making-cubesats-do-astronomy/
[23:47] <BeaverOne> craag: yah, i'm interested in it, multiple balloons if required
[23:47] <craag> The general consensus is that it's easier launching the rocket from the ground
[23:47] <Ian_> Ha . . . significant fresher HAB interest, other than the usual suspects of course (Ibanzimatti)
[23:47] <BeaverOne> mbales: i'm researching if there are radio shields suitable for this hobby
[23:48] <craag> As the energy saved by launching from 30km up is insignificant compared to the orbital energy required.
[23:48] <craag> ie. the acceleration to orbit velocity
[23:48] <BeaverOne> craag: :(
[23:48] <BeaverOne> just seems like 30km is a big advantage of altitude :(
[23:49] <adamgreig> the altitude is not the problem at all
[23:49] <adamgreig> the 8km/s sideways is the real issue
[23:49] <adamgreig> I mean, you want like 400km altitude to get a useful LEO orbit and then 30km is barely 10%
[23:49] <mbales> the only shield Im away of is the trackuino
[23:49] <adamgreig> but that's irrelevant compared to the velocity you require to maintain orbit
[23:49] <mbales> http://www.trackuino.org/
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[23:50] <mbales> trouble is they can be tough to find assembled
[23:51] <mbales> i believe upu sells them: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=75
[23:52] <mbales> he hangs out here, sells quality stuff in my experience
[23:52] <BeaverOne> hmm, the Habduino Kit
[23:54] <Ian_> !wiki
[23:54] <SpacenearUS> 03Ian_: Here be the wiki, arr: 12http://ukhas.org.uk
[23:55] <Ian_> BeaverOne ^ ^ ^ plenty of good reading
[23:55] <Laurenceb_> the point of a rockoon is to allow launch vehicles to scale down in terms of GLOW and payload
[23:55] <Laurenceb_> conventional launch vehicles dont scale down at all well
[23:55] <Laurenceb_> due to atmospheric drag
[23:56] <Laurenceb_> and also burn time if its a solid rocket
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[23:58] <Laurenceb_> in other news, I was looking at these for a rockoon
[23:58] <Laurenceb_> http://www.modelrockets.co.uk/shop/klima-model-rocket-motors/d3-six-pack-18mm-rocket-glidercar-motor-p-3310.html
[23:58] <Laurenceb_> those will get _very_ high, but exactly how high is pretty hard to work out
[23:59] <Laurenceb_> http://www.neu.raketenmodellbau-klima.de/Download_Dateien/Motorflyer_DINA4.pdf
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