highaltitude.log.20151006

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[06:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EAGLE2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EAGLE2
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[10:04] <SpeedEvil> For those near London.
[10:04] <SpeedEvil> http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/visitmuseum/plan_your_visit/events/exhibition_events/cosmonauts-events.aspx
[10:04] <eroomde> for those not near london, go anyway
[10:08] <fsphil> :(
[10:08] <eroomde> it's good
[10:08] <fsphil> any idea how long it's on for?
[10:09] <eroomde> i know the curator through work and this is one hell of a serious exhibition
[10:09] <eroomde> one of the largest they've ever done
[10:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5QI-Chase_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5QI-Chase_chase
[10:17] <Darkside> hum
[10:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5QI_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5QI_chase
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[10:27] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: yeah - actual soviet moon hardware, doesn't get much more serious.
[10:27] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: ages, march I thin
[10:27] <SpeedEvil> k
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[10:42] <fsphil> ooh then maybe
[10:44] <daveake> cool ... we usually go to London sometime before Xmas so we'll do the soviet thing then
[10:52] <gonzo_> I went there once........
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Npo0cmp-VY
[11:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HORUSLORA - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HORUSLORA
[11:17] <Laurenceb> for those not near london http://www.networkrail.co.uk/midland-main-line-improvement-programme/
[11:17] <Laurenceb> remind me why we need HS2...
[11:25] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0313 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
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[11:44] <gcustudent> Hi all, is there a maximum permitted payload weight the CAA allows in the UK?
[11:46] <UpuWork> gcustudent there isn't one
[11:46] <UpuWork> but your question sets the alarm bells going
[11:46] <UpuWork> how much are you planning on launching ?
[11:48] <gcustudent> have read that usually projects aim to keep their weight around 1kg but was wondering if there was a definite answer
[11:48] <gcustudent> thank you for reply
[11:49] <daveake> and how much are you thinking of launching ?
[11:49] <fsphil> glasgow?
[11:50] <UpuWork> our non legally binding but based in sensible recommendations are here : https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:guidelines
[11:50] <UpuWork> anything above 4kg becomes quite unwieldy and hard to launch never mind the issues if the parachute isn't up to scratch
[11:50] <gcustudent> early design stages of a project involving a cheap version of a CubeSat but looking to weigh less than 1.2kg
[11:51] <UpuWork> give your engineers a max wieght budget of 800g
[11:51] <UpuWork> see what they come up with :)
[11:51] <UpuWork> and always apply the would I like this hitting my face at 30mph test
[11:52] <fsphil> we should add the "Would I want it landing on my car" test
[11:52] <craag> yeah don't just strap the metal cubesat to the bottom..
[11:52] <UpuWork> yup also that
[11:52] <craag> not like any uni would do that....
[11:52] <craag> :P
[11:52] <UpuWork> s/car/cat/dog
[11:52] <daveake> lol
[11:52] <gcustudent> haha thank you, will take safety into consideration!
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[11:52] <UpuWork> you will excuse our sarcasm but we do ...
[11:52] <UpuWork> never mind
[11:52] <fsphil> *attaches spikes*
[11:54] <daveake> I can recommend landing on a metal roof; the height and ground plane really help the range :)
[11:54] <fsphil> hah
[11:54] <UpuWork> :)
[11:54] <craag> just not one that's under construction or you'll get your tracker nicked
[11:55] <daveake> hah yes
[11:55] <daveake> Well lora1 went missing and that was a field of sheep
[11:55] <gonzo_> didn't yopu have one kidnapped by golfers too?
[11:56] <daveake> yup
[11:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BGS1 after 0316 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BGS1
[11:56] <daveake> All I got from the sheep was http://i.imgur.com/f3ixvb1.png
[11:57] <daveake> Golfers were more forthcoming http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/IMG_0658-768x1024.jpg
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[11:58] <gonzo_> I'm supprised they didn';t report it to the committee, as the payload was not wearing an approved tie
[11:59] <daveake> I got to the committee before they did :)
[12:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BGS2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BGS2
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[12:00] <fsphil> probably the most interesting thing to happen on the course all year
[12:01] <daveake> They probably thought it was a huge golf ball
[12:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AVA - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AVA
[12:11] <UpuWork> why hello there
[12:12] <craag> on holiday UpuWork? ;)
[12:12] <UpuWork> lent it to Alain for a school launch he's doing
[12:12] <craag> :)
[12:12] <UpuWork> its launching on Friday
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[12:33] <ntx2> hello: I have a payload antenna question. I made one using the instructions on the wiki. Now one of the legs broke when I was moving the payload around. So can I just solder it back on or should I make a new one?
[12:33] <adamgreig> should be fine to just solder it back on
[12:34] <ntx2> I am wondering if I can put some glue on it using a glue gun and ensure that the leg does not break off like it now. Is that ok to do?
[12:34] <daveake> Also it sounds like it'd fail the Ed staircase test, so check the other joints
[12:34] <adamgreig> sure
[12:34] <ntx2> Ed staircase test?
[12:35] <eroomde> why?
[12:35] <eroomde> who?
[12:35] <daveake> "Would it survive being thrown down the stairs?"
[12:35] <ntx2> it was not attached to the payload yet
[12:35] <ntx2> and that is why it broke..
[12:36] <eroomde> there is a school of thought propagated by the Ed in question that if you'd feel sqeamish about throwing your payload down the stairs, you should consider not flying it
[12:36] <ntx2> so I have been planning to do this staircase test too
[12:36] <eroomde> that's the ed test
[12:36] <Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cyx6nWdFas
[12:36] <ntx2> do you actually throw it down and test it? that sounds like a destructive test...?
[12:36] <eroomde> because these things can take a pounding, especially on landing, but they still need to keep working and transmitting after hitting the ground
[12:37] <eroomde> if it's a destructive test then it's probably failed the test!
[12:37] <ntx2> yeah
[12:37] <eroomde> you don't literally throw it as hard as you can at the lower floor, but yeah, you should feel happy enough to push it off with a bit of force
[12:37] <eroomde> and have it bounce-bounce-bounce down
[12:37] <ntx2> so whats a good test?
[12:37] <ntx2> how many floors?
[12:38] <UpuWork> they fall at 5m/s
[12:38] <adamgreig> 5m/s if everything goes to plan..
[12:39] <UpuWork> yes this
[12:39] <eroomde> it doesn't matter so much about things sticking out infront of cameras
[12:39] <eroomde> they might break
[12:39] <eroomde> they might break on landing toono biggie
[12:39] <eroomde> but like, you definitely don't want the inner core to be damaged, or have batteries pop out of holders, or whatever
[12:39] <eroomde> it must survive a heafty, off-nominal landing
[12:39] <eroomde> so more than 5m/s
[12:39] <adamgreig> i had batteries pop out of holders recently ;(
[12:40] <eroomde> yeah that really shouldn't happen on one's hab. they must be shock-mounted and securely held in
[12:40] <adamgreig> mine didn't even stay in during ascent let alone landing
[12:40] <daveake> :)
[12:40] <ntx2> oh wow
[12:40] <eroomde> it happens in non-habs for other reasons
[12:40] <eroomde> but in a hab, no excuses
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[13:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AGENA1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AGENA1
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[13:18] <BeaverOne> http://navspark.mybigcommerce.com/navspark-mini-uart-to-usb-adapter/
[13:19] <g8fjg> hi all. I have a lora board with 2 rx ..I can only see 1 on the blue gateway drop down..I can edit the freq ok, how/where do I enable the second rx
[13:20] <daveake> gateway.txt ... just uncomment out the frequency line
[13:20] <g8fjg> ok I'll look there thanks...
[13:21] <daveake> Default file has a # at the start
[13:21] <daveake> Check the DIO0/5 settings match your h/w
[13:24] <g8fjg> yep ok suggestions faster than I can tipe...;-) obvious really , couldn't get " uncomment" through my head..all ok
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[13:41] <g8fjg> thanks all 73
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[13:42] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[13:43] <BeaverOne> im working on an arduino-based GPS tracker
[13:44] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD0HIP-7 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0HIP-7
[13:45] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KB1KVR after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KB1KVR
[13:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD5GOM-11 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD5GOM-11
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[14:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W5LCY-7 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W5LCY-7
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[14:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ary1_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ary1_chase
[14:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W5NAC-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W5NAC-11
[14:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N5YML-7 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N5YML-7
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[14:39] <michal_f_AFK> does anybody have a simple javascript example that would query habitat for a payloads telemetry and display it ?
[14:40] Nick change: michal_f_AFK -> michal_f
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[14:57] <SA6BSS-Mike> michal_f: u have seen this page that takes telemetry from habitat and display the telemetry http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/
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[15:01] <michal_f> I didn't know that, thanks
[15:04] <michal_f> are there any sources available for that ?
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[15:25] <arjunnaha> Upu, posted PITS board, Pi and SD card - should be with you tomorrow
[15:26] <UpuWork> excellent
[15:26] <UpuWork> save some time can you email me with the address you want it sending back too pls ?
[15:27] <arjunnaha> Yes, will do
[15:28] <arjunnaha> can you msg me on here your email
[15:28] <UpuWork> done
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[16:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> michal_f_AFK, shouldn't need to it get be downloaded from the manual interface after the flight if that's what you want see http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
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[16:10] <Laurenceb> http://files.explosm.net/comics/Dave/taggy.png
[16:14] <michal_f> !flights
[16:14] <SpacenearUS> 03michal_f: Current flights: 03SP9UOB pico 20 - 144.250MHz DOMEX16 10(dc08)
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[16:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03w5nac-11_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=w5nac-11_chase
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[17:17] <tweetBot> @JamesH65: Very impressive work! https://t.co/R5FEvfXwlJ
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[17:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EAGLE1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EAGLE1
[17:34] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
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[17:50] <arjunnaha> CAA has given us a launch slot for 4-5am.
[17:50] <arjunnaha> Clever people have no common sense sometimes
[17:51] <arjunnaha> I applied for 11.20am
[17:53] <russss> arjunnaha: they tend to do that for air traffic avoidance
[17:54] <russss> is your launch site particularly close to an airport?
[17:54] <arjunnaha> Apparently we are too close to Heathrow (Hint: we're about 30 miles away)
[17:54] <arjunnaha> And prediction is opposite direction
[17:55] <russss> right yeah, they will do that
[17:58] <russss> which direction from Heathrow?
[17:59] <arjunnaha> West
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[18:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> If you use Google Earth I have a useful file for shoing the controlled areas inlcuding height data http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/airspace.kmz
[18:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> showing
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[18:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> I guess you must be West of Reading then at 30 miles ?
[18:04] <arjunnaha> Yes, more like 25 though, I'm in Wokingham
[18:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not sure on current accuracy of the data it is dated March 2009 but can't find anything better to date ..
[18:05] <arjunnaha> http://imgur.com/9PKafB8
[18:05] <arjunnaha> Quite close
[18:07] Nick change: SM0ULC_ -> SM0ULC
[18:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes clearly visible and line of sight to the controlled airspace!
[18:14] <russss> yeah you're like 2 miles south of the extended runway centreline there
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[18:16] <arjunnaha> Prob launch from madejski then
[18:16] <arjunnaha> It's to the west and CAA are fine with that
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[18:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/Capturefs.JPG
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[18:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> Still visible line of sight from Madejski http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/Capturemdski.JPG
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[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> quantum mechanics doesn't like me it seems
[19:21] <Lunar_Lander> damn transistion metal anomalies
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[20:57] <MikeUoN> Hi
[20:57] <MikeUoN> What sort of baud rates are used for the SSDV images?
[20:58] <SM0ULC> 300 i think
[20:58] <craag> normally 300 or 600
[20:58] <Laurenceb_> what the heck is this http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/adva/5/8/10.1063/1.4928572
[20:58] <SM0ULC> also 600
[20:58] <Laurenceb_> worst written paper ever
[20:58] <Laurenceb_> I dont even know what they are trying to do
[21:00] <MikeUoN> Thanks SM0ULC
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[21:00] <MikeUoN> I bet I could find a worse paper (albeit intentionally)
[21:04] <chris_99> Laurenceb_, mind if i badger you a sec, i was looking at some UK rocket records, it seems around 4000m was achieved with a 5700 Newton seconds, aren't you looking at motors with a lot less Ns?
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> yes
[21:05] <chris_99> how will you get to 100km with a lot less?
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> recently I was looking at the 18Ns Klima motors
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> the altitude is a function of the rocket equation
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> so you need high ISP and good mass fraction
[21:05] <eroomde> chris_99: drag
[21:05] <eroomde> there's wayless at 30km, so launch from 30km
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> once you launch of a balloon you can reduce size massively
[21:06] <chris_99> oh you mean, you'll hit 100km via a rockoon
[21:06] <chris_99> not from ground level
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> exactly
[21:06] <chris_99> oh ok
[21:06] <chris_99> so, what apogee have you hit from ground level?
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> about 300m
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> actually no, with the Klima thing about 1km
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> http://www.modelrockets.co.uk/shop/klima-model-rocket-motors/d3-six-pack-18mm-rocket-glidercar-motor-p-3310.html
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[21:08] <chris_99> cool, so are you using a model of the atmosphere then, for your simulations?
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> yes, US 1976
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> http://www.digitaldutch.com/atmoscalc/
[21:08] <chris_99> cool, ta
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> combined with WGS84 geoid in matlab
[21:08] <chris_99> yeah i was confused, i thought you meant you were getting 100km from ground
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> no chance lol
[21:09] <chris_99> heh, how hard do you reckon, it will be to stabilise the rocket
[21:09] <chris_99> on the balloon
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> rather hard
[21:09] <chris_99> mmm
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> it probably needs >300hz spin
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> although I've now done 320hz on the ground successfully...
[21:10] <chris_99> spin in only one axis?
[21:10] <Oddstr13> am I sensing amateur sattelites? :P
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> hopefully one axis....
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> tho obviously nothing is ideal in practice
[21:10] <chris_99> oh, what do you mean the spin is for sorry
[21:11] <Laurenceb_> you spin about the vertical axis to keep it pointing upwards
[21:11] <chris_99> ah, using some kind of gyro, or..?
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> no, by rotating the rockoon, check my ukhas 2015 talk
[21:12] <chris_99> will do
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> this is the same way bullets and shells are stabilised
[21:13] <chris_99> is it ok to launch a rockoon in the UK?
[21:13] <Laurenceb_> nobody knows...
[21:13] <chris_99> heh
[21:13] <Laurenceb_> def no inside controlled airspace
[21:13] <Laurenceb_> but >70k feet and <100km is unclear
[21:14] <chris_99> interesting
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> FAA have a clear procedure for such projects, which is nice, even if it means they are def no go without approval
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> which makes we wonder wtf the register are going on about with their LOHAN project
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[21:16] <chris_99> i've not seen that, is that a rockoon project
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> sort of...
[21:16] <MikeUoN> didnt they try to do something in Spain a short while ago?
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> nobody knows what it is or why it exists
[21:17] <chris_99> heh
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/science/lohan/
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> MikeUoN: who knows
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> one thing is for sure, they faffed a lot and made no progress
[21:17] <chris_99> yeah i've just been skimming that, is what they've done so far soley a baloon
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> yup
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/02/lohan_faa/
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> whyyyyyyy
[21:18] <MikeUoN> They seem to be a bit harsh on the poor FAA
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> seriously, what did they expect to happen
[21:18] <Laurenceb_> they expect the FAA to hold their hands ?!
[21:19] <MikeUoN> I guess :/
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[21:21] <Laurenceb_> If they bothered to read the official paperwork and put the effort into producing the risk assessment they would be home and dry
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> maybe... that "thing" doesnt exactly look safe
[21:21] <MikeUoN> At least it leaves 'first' to you and Leo ;)
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> :D
[21:22] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[21:34] <craag> There were a few good people involved with LOHAN at the start
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[21:34] <craag> but they've quickly got tired of it
[21:35] <craag> too many mad ideas apparently
[21:38] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> yeah I considered getting involved, but the "leaders" seemed quite forcefull and there didnt seem to be a clear idea of what the aims were
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[21:40] <Laurenceb_> other than "for fun" but if that was the aim then the optimum design would just be coke and hookers
[21:41] <MikeUoN> Full fat or diet? (the coke)
[21:42] <MikeUoN> ;)
[21:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Seed1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Seed1
[21:48] <michal_f> How woyuld Habitat react to a telemetry string that is missing some of the optional fields ?
[21:49] <michal_f> If they're empty strings,like: $callsing,time,lat,lon,altitude,,,,,,
[21:49] <lz1dev> only one way to find out
[21:50] <michal_f> :)
[21:51] <michal_f> so another question then :) is there any python script to upload to habitat? So I don't have to run whole tracker>Radio>SDR>dl-fldigi chain ?
[21:52] <adamgreig> yea
[21:53] <adamgreig> you can just pip install habitat and it has an uploader part
[21:53] <adamgreig> you will have to write a little python i suppose, depends where your data comes from
[21:53] <lz1dev> http://habitat.readthedocs.org/en/latest/habitat/habitat/habitat.uploader.html
[21:54] <michal_f> thanks, I'm looking into it
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> good night :)
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[22:03] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[22:08] <fsphil> MikeUoN: you can use any baud rate, if you think you can decode it ok :)
[22:08] <fsphil> someone did try 1200 once. it kinda worked
[22:09] <MikeUoN> nice
[22:09] <MikeUoN> Just exploring options at the moment
[22:09] <MikeUoN> Seeing what's been done before :)
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[22:16] <michal_f> I'm switching from 300 to 50 after landing
[22:16] <michal_f> hoping it will help with recovery
[22:17] <MikeUoN> thats pretty cool
[22:17] <MikeUoN> switches because < certain altitude or because it detects 'no' movement?
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[22:20] <michal_f> currently I tracked 4 states: STANDBY, ASCEND, DESCEND, LANDED
[22:20] <michal_f> just comparing altitudes in 10 secondd spans
[22:21] <michal_f> so if in DESCEND, and altitude hasn't changed more than 5 meters, then I assume it has landed
[22:22] <MikeUoN> yeah
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[22:22] <MikeUoN> nice
[22:22] <craag> make sure it handles losing gps lock ok :)
[22:23] <michal_f> hmm... good point :)
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[22:24] <michal_f> getting satelite count from GPS is enough ? Like satNum>4 means it has a lock ?
[22:24] <craag> yep that works
[22:25] <craag> there's other stuff like vdop that gives an idea of current fix accuracy
[22:25] <adamgreig> it does actually tell you its current fix type
[22:25] <adamgreig> none, time-only, 2d, 3d
[22:25] <adamgreig> which is a bit more reliable than the number of satellites involved in the fix
[22:25] <adamgreig> but just number of satellites is ok too i suppose
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[22:26] <michal_f> I will certainly take a look at this
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[22:31] <Oddstr13> AM broadcast on 41.464 MHz?
[22:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ARY1T - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ARY1T
[22:34] <michal_f> ok, so habitat does not like string with missing fields :)
[22:38] <Oddstr13> http://i.imgur.com/u4BII0u.png
[22:39] <MikeUoN> nice
[22:40] <Oddstr13> am I really seeing an AM station on 41MHz, or is the RTL-SDR/gqrx screwing up?
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[22:56] <Oddstr13> it's RRI
[22:59] <Oddstr13> I'm kinda confused finding them on 41MHz tho ._.
[22:59] <BeaverOne> im working on an arduino-based GPS tracker
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[23:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Seed2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Seed2
[00:00] --- Wed Oct 7 2015