highaltitude.log.20151002

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[06:25] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BGS1 after 0311 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BGS1
[06:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DC2EH-12 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-12
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[09:10] <M0JFP> good morning anyone
[09:11] <michal_f_WRK> hello
[09:12] <M0JFP> my first successful HAB tracking was with the pigs last weekend, got some great pictures decoded..
[09:12] <M0JFP> Being newb I am looking again at this weekends schedule and see 3 LORA balloons
[09:13] <M0JFP> can I use the DL FL digi software to decode lora?
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[09:16] <M0JFP> my first successful HAB tracking was with the pigs last weekend, got some great pictures decoded..
[09:16] <M0JFP> Being newb I am looking again at this weekends schedule and see 3 LORA balloons
[09:16] <M0JFP> can I use the DL FL digi software to decode lora?
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[09:18] <M0JFP> has anyone any pointers for LORA balloons this weekend?
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[09:19] <mjago> !flights
[09:19] <SpacenearUS> 03mjago: There are no flights currently :(
[09:19] <craag> 0x3A28213A
[09:19] <M0JFP> habhub suggests 3 lura flights in uk
[09:19] <M0JFP> on Saturday
[09:20] <M0JFP> LORA
[09:20] <craag> yes dave is flying 3 balloons
[09:20] <craag> what do you want to know?
[09:20] <daveake> he is
[09:20] <M0JFP> ha..
[09:20] <daveake> No you can't decode lora with dl-fldigi
[09:20] <M0JFP> ok so my question is what software do i need to track it, my firsdt attempt was last weeeknd back with the flying pigs using fl digi
[09:21] <M0JFP> is there a windows programme which can?
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[09:21] <daveake> There is a software decoder around but I've no idea if it'd work or not
[09:21] <daveake> I believe it's quite limited as to what modes etc it works with
[09:22] <M0JFP> ok so looking at using LINUX then
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[09:22] <daveake> I don't know what the s/w decoder runs on
[09:23] <daveake> Never tried to use it
[09:23] <craag> Well other than a software decoder, you need the lora hardware
[09:23] <mjago> I used dl-fldigi on mac os-x last Sunday - it worked well
[09:23] <M0JFP> also is this just tracking data or will there be some pictures too? any ideas?
[09:23] <daveake> No images
[09:23] <fsphil> lora is a proprietary mode
[09:23] <craag> lora is module<->module mode
[09:23] <craag> not designed for software rx
[09:24] <fsphil> which is a shame
[09:24] <daveake> So you need a module (£5 or so) and a processor that does SPI to talk to it
[09:24] <M0JFP> ok so one to avaid without going down another radio route..
[09:24] <daveake> Well it's a cheap radio
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[09:24] <M0JFP> is it a bolt on to the raspi pi?
[09:24] <craag> Most of us use these to receive it (on a pi) http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=121
[09:25] <craag> Dave then has some gateway software that runs on the pi, controls the radio, and uploads to habhub/ssdv
[09:25] <daveake> And yes that plugs into the Pi
[09:26] <M0JFP> so i see, nice bit of kits and a good proce as well
[09:26] <M0JFP> wish I could type too..
[09:27] <M0JFP> so thats the rx side for lora and the other modes as well?
[09:28] <M0JFP> and the pi in the sky board will tx ssdv rtty and lora?
[09:28] <craag> that will only rx lora
[09:28] <mjago> It looks like Microchip do some lora(TM) solutions too which I expect will be cheap
[09:28] <craag> or you tx it
[09:28] <daveake> pits just does rtty unless you add that lora board
[09:29] <daveake> or you can add aprs if you're of an American persuasion
[09:29] <daveake> or some other country with sensible radio rules
[09:29] Action: fsphil has a Pi at home with lora/aprs :)
[09:30] <daveake> yes just a shame we can't fly aprs
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[09:30] <daveake> well good that we can't, too
[09:30] <fsphil> yeah I think it's generally a good thing
[09:30] <M0JFP> so will the lora module work on its own to decode those balloons
[09:31] <fsphil> yeah
[09:31] <M0JFP> or do you need the pits board
[09:31] <fsphil> well, with a microcontroller/i
[09:31] <M0JFP> ok
[09:31] <fsphil> pi*
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[09:31] <M0JFP> I ave a few pi's knocking about
[09:31] <fsphil> the module does all the modulation and demodulation internally
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[09:31] <gonzo_> the rsgb loves UKHAS and I suspect pressured for the airborn AR to be included in the last licence review with ofcom
[09:31] <M0JFP> was thinking of getting a pits boards and doing a few tehered flights with a cemera.. just see what happens
[09:32] <fsphil> tethering is a bit of a pain
[09:32] <gonzo_> but it didn't come. (I don't think ofcom were looking for quite that level of udate! They just wanted the clauses to sell 13cm off)
[09:32] <fsphil> if there's any wind at all they head towards the ground
[09:32] <M0JFP> yes but being able to keep it under control for a bit
[09:32] <daveake> easier to just launch the thing
[09:32] <daveake> also then you might lose it and become a repeat pits customer :p
[09:32] <M0JFP> not here in Staines all of 5 miles from Heathrow airport...
[09:33] <craag> gonzo_: I talked to an ofcom rep about it, it's entirely the CAA's call, and the CAA won't except *any* increase in risk without a very good reason.
[09:33] <craag> *accept
[09:33] <gonzo_> interesting. It mist have got further than I thought
[09:33] <fsphil> I didn't realise the CAA had that level of say
[09:34] <fsphil> outside the air bands
[09:34] <gonzo_> can';t see that airborne in primary ar bands is an additional risk. They that most of the rest of the world for data on accidents drirectly attributed to AR in air (ie none)
[09:35] <gonzo_> is it actual risk, preceved risk, or the fear of risk
[09:35] <fsphil> or not wanting to have to calculate the risk
[09:36] <craag> It's the government.. risk of fear of risk ;)
[09:36] <fsphil> we need a prime minister who is a ham... oh
[09:36] <craag> lol
[09:37] <daveake> lol
[09:37] <daveake> "yeah I'm into ham"
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[09:38] <M0JFP_> browser lock up..
[09:38] <fsphil> explorer?
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[09:40] <M0JFP_> actually chrome.. its been playing up a bit recently
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[09:42] <ZS5LT> good morning from South Africa
[09:45] <fsphil> morning
[09:45] <SM0ULC> morrn
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[09:52] <M0JFP_> hello
[09:53] <SM0ULC> A bit fun with the discussion of 2.4 ghz wifi on the list. Over 10 years since i worked with 802.11-adhoc
[09:53] <fsphil> I was going to put adhoc wifi on my last one. until I discovered none of the wifi hardware I own does adhoc :(
[09:54] <SpeedEvil> :/
[09:54] <SM0ULC> fsphil: oh
[09:55] <fsphil> well that's a lie. I still have some orinoco PCMCIA cards :)
[09:55] <fsphil> but nothing to plug them into
[09:55] <SM0ULC> forgotten mode... that's why the massive confusion with ack etc
[09:56] <SM0ULC> fsphil: the BIG question... the gold or the silver? ;)
[09:56] <fsphil> hah. silver
[09:57] <fsphil> I've a couple of rebranded ones too
[09:57] <fsphil> no idea why I've kept those
[09:57] <SM0ULC> fsphil: i worked with ad hoc protocol development etc for thos cards. they also have the noce monitor-mode
[09:57] <SpeedEvil> In principle, it should be doable with most cards under linux
[09:57] <SM0ULC> s/noce/nice
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[10:01] <SM0ULC> fsphil: how far would be possible with 1 Mbit and 10-100 mW? I don't remember
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[10:05] <SpeedEvil> It depends on the dish
[10:05] <SpeedEvil> err
[10:05] <SpeedEvil> antannae
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[10:06] <SpeedEvil> of the order of 100-300m for a 100mW free-space omni-omni
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[10:10] <SM0ULC> SpeedEvil: right. i have a neighbour with a 24 dB antenna pointing to the other neighbour 20 m away. odd installation :)
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> It could make sense if they have attenuators
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> As it would mean the link was far harder to snoop
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> But...
[10:14] <fsphil> one half of the link would still need to be an omni
[10:14] <fsphil> that will be an annoying limit for a hab wifi link
[10:14] <fsphil> though the ground antenna can be pretty huge
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> 2.4m dishes aren't _that_ expensive on ebay
[10:15] <fsphil> yeah
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> At 5ghz it's quite directive
[10:15] <fsphil> I've a spare ~1.5m dish I was hoping to use
[10:15] <craag> pointing it is the hard bit
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> and the antenna can have some 'horizontal' gain
[10:17] <SM0ULC> fsphil: would be funky ontop of your car :)
[10:17] <fsphil> hah, my car struggles as it is
[10:19] <fsphil> a motor driven dish would be ideal. using 434mhz to transmit down position
[10:19] <fsphil> to aim the dish to get the 2.4ghz data
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[10:23] <gonzo_> I can point a 3mtr dish from this neck of the woods. But a had would need to be quite close to be line of sight
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[10:24] <gonzo_> suspect 2.4G will be less forgiving of local horizon that 434meg
[10:25] <fsphil> a slow floater would be ideal. launching from here and slowly drifting over england
[10:26] <fsphil> *south, not down
[10:26] <fsphil> down would be bad
[10:26] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9z6z36kRt4 - related
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[10:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> We would be over Europe not the USA ;-)
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[11:32] <Laurenceb__> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/02/the_siege_of_shoreditch_was_like_stalingrad_but_with_froot_loops_bloopers/
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[12:23] <michal_f_WRK> is it possible to somehow query habitat for a particular payload ?
[12:24] <michal_f_WRK> ie. if I wanted to have a script that monitors my balloon
[12:24] <UpuWork> it is yes
[12:25] <UpuWork> http://habitat.readthedocs.org/en/latest/
[12:26] <michal_f_WRK> thanks UpuWork
[12:27] <michal_f_WRK> are there any examples perhaps ? :)
[12:28] <UpuWork> Someone may be able to assist, sadly I'm not that person :)
[12:29] <michal_f_WRK> ok, I'll have a look at docs :)
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[13:04] <MikeUoN> hi everyone
[13:04] <eroomde> yo
[13:05] <MikeUoN> hi ero, I dont know if you saw my message yesterday, but thanks for the book suggestion.
[13:11] <eroomde> thermo one?
[13:13] <MikeUoN> Yeah the Blundell one
[13:13] <eroomde> oh awesome
[13:13] <MikeUoN> Some super interesting stuff in the back, especially. :)
[13:13] <eroomde> yeah it's good
[13:13] <eroomde> yep!
[13:13] <eroomde> some really interesting applications chapters
[13:14] <eroomde> shockwaves one is especially useful in my industry :)
[13:15] <MikeUoN> I think you mentioned you were a rocket scientist, yeah. Do you do engines or control, or something else?
[13:15] <MikeUoN> btw that is so cool. :D
[13:15] <eroomde> engines and control!
[13:16] <eroomde> i'm working on the sabre engine
[13:16] <MikeUoN> :O
[13:16] <MikeUoN> that thing is literally the coolest thing since sliced bread.
[13:16] <MikeUoN> By literally I mean figuratively, but yeah.
[13:16] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[13:18] <eroomde> nozzle stuff at the moment
[13:18] <SpeedEvil> Well. Parts of it are very cool indeed.
[13:18] <MikeUoN> There must be all sorts of things going on a such temperatures and whatnot
[13:19] <MikeUoN> True SpeedEvil.
[13:19] <eroomde> yes there are all sorts of things
[13:20] <MikeUoN> Hows the development going at the moment>
[13:21] <eroomde> alright. We're about to start much longer burns with the current experimental engine we have
[13:21] <eroomde> i can't really go into a great deal of detail unfortunately, but it's all about looking at different flow regeimes and the transitions between them.
[13:22] Action: SpeedEvil crosses fingers.
[13:22] <MikeUoN> thumbs up
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[13:27] <eroomde> but, i stand by the usefulness of keeping yourself broad
[13:27] <eroomde> so good stuff on getting this book
[13:27] <Sirius-BE> good luck eroomde :-)
[13:27] <MikeUoN> Thanks, ero, yeah best of luck with your work!
[13:28] <eroomde> ta
[13:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD5GOM-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD5GOM-11
[13:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hijack_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hijack_chase
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[14:56] <somisary> how do I go about getting a flight document approved on habhub?
[14:56] <daveake> try /join #habhub
[14:56] <daveake> and ask nicely
[14:56] <daveake> have you tested the payload doc yet ?
[14:58] <somisary> oh, I wasn't aware you could do that without the flight doc, I shall try now
[14:59] <UpuWork> is your payload called icarus ?
[15:00] <somisary> it is not, barry1
[15:00] <UpuWork> ok cool when you're receiving and upload you can check here : http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[15:01] <UpuWork> if your payload doc is correct it will pop on the map and the SpacenearUS bot will post it here
[15:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BARRY1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BARRY1
[15:01] <UpuWork> like that
[15:01] <UpuWork> nice timing
[15:01] <somisary> ah ha!
[15:01] <UpuWork> so make a flight document picking that payload document
[15:01] <UpuWork> then post it on #habhub and say my name
[15:02] Action: UpuWork goes into Walter White mode
[15:03] <chris_99> haha
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[15:16] <fsphil> you're the one who lanuches?
[15:16] <fsphil> launches too
[15:17] <UpuWork> I am the launcher
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[15:36] <UpuWork> busy day tommorrow
[15:37] <sburg> /join #habhub
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[15:54] <fsphil> must get the antennas ready. see if this lora thing works
[15:56] <MikeUoN> good luck!
[15:56] <daveake> :)
[15:56] <daveake> They're not going far from here - winds are pretty gentle tomorrow
[15:56] <MikeUoN> Stream it on Twitch so I can have a peak, please. ;)
[15:56] <daveake> http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/oldgore/
[15:56] <daveake> I'll probably stream to batc
[15:57] <chimpusmaximus> Monday at 4am looks good..
[15:57] <chimpusmaximus> Might actualy get to track
[15:57] <MikeUoN> if it lands near notts, I'll race you to find it :P
[15:58] <MikeUoN> If it could land over campus that would be great
[16:00] <fsphil> busy tomorrow
[16:01] <daveake> yup
[16:01] <fsphil> doesn't seem to be any frequency overlaps
[16:01] <daveake> surprisingly :)
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[16:03] <daveake> I think the days of someone on 075, someone else on 650, and the 3rd person wondering what to do, are now over :)
[16:04] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[16:09] <M0JFP> so how are you guys tracking lora 1-3 then, are you using the module on a raspi
[16:09] <craag> yes
[16:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> that's what I use one on a set of beams the other on co-linear aerial
[16:09] <craag> there's a couple of people who've built microcontroller-based gateways too
[16:10] <M0JFP> pi version is ok for me (simple)
[16:10] <M0JFP> so you just kook up to a nice big antenna and hope for the best
[16:10] <craag> run dave's gateway software
[16:11] <craag> tell it the frequency and settings in a config file
[16:11] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> No quite the beams track the flight with the data from habitat thanks to craags program
[16:12] <M0JFP> ok like the sat tracker
[16:12] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> indeed
[16:12] <M0JFP> *smart*
[16:12] <fsphil> what time is the launch daveake?
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[16:18] <M0JFP> 434.500 is showing as g7tem on the farnham websdr
[16:20] <M0JFP> I guess thats why its amateur on a secondary basis and that the TX on Benny will be tiny
[16:22] <craag> secondary users should make way for our habs ;)
[16:26] Action: M0JFP changes nick name quickly
[16:30] <M0JFP> IS SSDV used by hams anywhere else or is it mostly used for HAB, could it be built into FLdigi and a TX mode
[16:32] <daveake> fsphil 11 - 12 ISH
[16:32] <daveake> Depends on what time I wake up :p
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[17:06] <Laurenceb__> I dont understand these guys
[17:06] <Laurenceb__> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/02/lohan_faa/
[17:06] <Laurenceb__> seems like a massively overcomplex way to go about things
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> 'we don't actually read the laws before trying to do stuff'
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> Acting like incompetant buffoons seems like the ideal way to approach the FAA to get approval
[17:10] <Laurenceb__> well it'd be massively simpler for them to get their reloads in the UK for a start
[17:10] <Laurenceb__> rather than Spain
[17:11] <MikeUoN> My favourite is this https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/moonspike/moonspike-the-worlds-first-crowdfunded-moon-rocket
[17:11] <Laurenceb__> then if they insist on FAA the FAA are going to ask for a risk assessment, and they are unlikely to do it themselves
[17:11] <Laurenceb__> so doing a risk assessment would kind of speed things along... massively
[17:12] <Laurenceb__> if you can prove its "safe" then you are good to go
[17:12] <Laurenceb__> where safe is <10^-6 mean fatalities per experimental launch last time I checked the FAA guidance
[17:13] <Laurenceb__> Virgin clearly faked their risk assessments as they seem to be missing that by many orders of magnitude so far
[17:14] <MikeUoN> :P
[17:15] <fsphil> M0JFP: I don't believe it's seen much use outside of HAB'ing
[17:15] <fsphil> I've used it on HF frequencies a few times
[17:15] <Laurenceb__> I guess that is an advantage to FAA rather than CAA - they have a well documented procedure for random aerospace projects
[17:16] <MikeUoN> Does "low-orbit" refer to an altitude, or an altitude as well as the act of orbiting?
[17:16] <Laurenceb__> heres the funny bit
[17:16] <Laurenceb__> I get their estimated apogee as ~30m above the launcher
[17:16] <Laurenceb__> it might not even get past the balloon
[17:16] <MikeUoN> xD
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[17:16] <fsphil> I would imagine both MikeUoN
[17:16] <MikeUoN> thx fsphil
[17:17] <Laurenceb__> s/low-orbit/30m
[17:17] <fsphil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Earth_orbit
[17:17] <MikeUoN> I dont see how on earth they could get that model to orbit earth...
[17:17] <fsphil> LEO goes all the way up to 2000km
[17:17] <fsphil> and starts at 160km
[17:17] <fsphil> not sure how long something would orbit at 160km
[17:18] <MikeUoN> Tower block at my uni is in low-orbit by that definition. :P
[17:18] <MikeUoN> ;)
[17:18] <MikeUoN> ah ok
[17:18] <Laurenceb__> that tower block is higher than they are ever going to get
[17:18] <Laurenceb__> relative to their launcher
[17:19] <MikeUoN> xD
[17:19] <fsphil> my air powered rockets stand a better chance
[17:19] <MikeUoN> It does seem somewhat simple compared to the likes of what yourself and Leo are doing.
[17:19] <MikeUoN> Especially with such small fins.
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[17:20] <Laurenceb__> well more importantly it doesnt seem to achieve anything
[17:20] <MikeUoN> lol phil
[17:20] <Laurenceb__> actually thats not a bad idea
[17:20] <MikeUoN> I guess they are having fun and hurting no one. :P
[17:20] <Laurenceb__> air powered rockets from a HAB would work quite well
[17:21] <Laurenceb__> you might get ~15km altitude
[17:22] <Laurenceb__> with a 2L pop bottle
[17:22] <MikeUoN> nice, i might try that some time.
[17:23] <Laurenceb__> its not going to work on the ground lol
[17:23] <Laurenceb__> you will get about 1m
[17:24] <MikeUoN> well of course :P
[17:25] <Laurenceb__> CO2 canisters might be more exciting
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[17:29] <MikeUoN> *baby steps* :P
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[18:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K6RPT-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
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[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> herllo
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> -r
[19:57] <Laurenceb__> uh oh https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282357284_Testing_quantised_inertia_on_the_emdrive
[20:00] <MikeUoN> em drives are cool. Big respect to those guys who build them. They are doing better than the guys at NASA.
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[20:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03sp9uob - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=sp9uob
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[20:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hijack_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hijack_chase
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[20:58] <RealBorg> MikeUoN, robert zubrin said everything there is to say about nasa ;)
[20:59] <MikeUoN> true, true ;)
[21:00] <RealBorg> 40 years of collecting junk and still no clue how to put all this together in a spaceship
[21:01] <MikeUoN> xD
[21:01] <MikeUoN> And they won't admit the earth is flat. I mean, that's just obvious.
[21:02] <MikeUoN> troll mode: off
[21:02] <MikeUoN> :P
[21:05] <RealBorg> at least they could send another mission to moon - if only to prove to those nuts that there is no conspiracy
[21:06] <MikeUoN> people will still find 'reasons'.
[21:06] <MikeUoN> There's a great sketch by Mitchell and Webb...
[21:06] <MikeUoN> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6MOnehCOUw
[21:06] <MikeUoN> (2mins)
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[21:10] <BitMad> Hi :-)
[21:10] <BitMad> Anybody interested in this: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/nwkjhx5bJx0 ?
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[21:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EAGLE1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EAGLE1
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[00:00] --- Sat Oct 3 2015