highaltitude.log.20150929

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[00:02] <Laurenceb__> useful
[00:02] <Laurenceb__> http://www.proant.se/files/user/Datasheet%20-%20OnBoard%20SMD%20434%20MHz%20rev%201.0.pdf
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[01:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ria-20a_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ria-20a_chase
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[04:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03norma_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=norma_chase
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[06:02] <mjago> !flights
[06:02] <SpacenearUS> 03mjago: There are no flights currently :(
[06:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DC2EH-12 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-12
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[11:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MONDO-14 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MONDO-14
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[12:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ria-20a_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ria-20a_chase
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[14:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LORA1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LORA1
[15:07] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[15:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC3DDW-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC3DDW-11
[15:24] mtx2 (6d0cc9cc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.12.201.204) joined #highaltitude.
[15:25] <mtx2> hi - how to prevent the parachute from getting tangled after the balloon explodes?
[15:25] <mtx2> I am afraid that the parachute might not open after the explosion and this will make the payload fall down and break into pieces...!
[15:26] <eroomde> that can be hard, actually
[15:26] <eroomde> 2 ways
[15:26] <eroomde> well, probably more than 2, but here are two common approaches
[15:27] <mtx2> ok?
[15:27] <eroomde> 1) arrange the lengths of line between payload-parachute and parachute-balloon to have a ratio of approximately 2:1
[15:27] <mtx2> I saw some videos of balloons in flight and there were many times when the entire thing was spinning (or rotating)
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[15:27] <eroomde> this means that if the balloon does not burst cleanly, and there are remnants, they tend to fall down and hang between the payload and the parachute, where they are less likely to tangle with either
[15:28] <eroomde> however, a better option is to have a cut-down device that detaches the balloon line after burst
[15:28] <eroomde> that way the balloon remains are discarded
[15:28] <mtx2> what devices exist to detach the balloon?
[15:28] <eroomde> i prefer this method, but it is more complicated in that you have to put more state into your software to tell the difference between ascent and descent, and that will require more testing
[15:28] <eroomde> you usually build your own mtx2
[15:29] <eroomde> https://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:flight_support
[15:29] <mtx2> so it is a software initiated detachment?
[15:29] <eroomde> have a look at the 'pyrotechnic cutdown device'
[15:29] <eroomde> mtx2: correct, if you use an electric match as in that link
[15:30] <eroomde> the flight computer will have to supply current to the electric match at the right time
[15:30] <eroomde> a group in american made a mechnical cutdown that worked automatically, but it was *much* bulkier and heavier than the e-match method
[15:30] <eroomde> another popular cutdown technique is to pass a current through a thin nichrome wire, which is wrapped around some nylon line
[15:30] <eroomde> that heats up the nichrome wire, which melts through the nylon line
[15:30] <mtx2> interesting
[15:31] <mtx2> but the problem I am thinking of still remains IMO
[15:31] <eroomde> however you want to make sure that the nichrome wire doesn't get too jiggled around during the acent, as that can cause a fatigue failure
[15:31] <mtx2> for eg., since the whole thing is rotating, the payload and the parachute lines might get tangled around themselves..
[15:31] <mtx2> and if the line below the parachute is entangled, the parachute wont open..?
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[15:32] <mtx2> or am I thinking wrong?
[15:32] <eroomde> they really shouldn't tangle between payload and parachute
[15:32] <eroomde> unless the distance between them is very short
[15:32] <eroomde> if you make it about 10m or more, it should be fine
[15:33] <mtx2> 10m??!!
[15:33] <eroomde> yes
[15:33] <mtx2> oh wow
[15:33] <eroomde> ten metres
[15:33] <fsphil> most of mine have had 10m of cord. no biggie
[15:34] <mtx2> ok
[15:34] <fsphil> there's a lot of space up there :)
[15:35] <mtx2> so if the line between the parachute and payload is 10m, then between parachute and balloon has to be 5m
[15:35] <eroomde> yep, that should work well
[15:35] <mtx2> do you recommend a swivel like the one used in the Titan flight? http://www.bombasaro.org/titan1#services
[15:35] <fsphil> make it less than 5m
[15:35] <eroomde> the distance between the two means that immediately after burst, when both payload and parachute are in freefall, enough dyanmic pressure builds up to keep the parachute above the payload before they've had a chance to impact
[15:35] <fsphil> or the remains of the balloon will hit the payload
[15:36] <eroomde> i swivel might help
[15:36] <eroomde> i've never been that convinced
[15:36] <mtx2> ok....
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[15:37] <eroomde> the stiction of the swizel will be large relative to any differential torques between the payload and the parachute
[15:37] <eroomde> swivel*
[15:37] <eroomde> in other words, i think that the swivel doesn't really do anything
[15:37] <eroomde> unless the parachute is like a helichute or something
[15:38] <mtx2> ok
[15:38] <mtx2> thanks
[15:38] <eroomde> if you make all the lines longer, you will also find it will swing less
[15:38] <mtx2> thats good to know
[15:39] <eroomde> if you really care bout switning there are more advanced ways of stabilising a payload but i wouldn't suggest them for a first flight
[15:39] <eroomde> swinging*
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[16:30] <Laurenceb__> mtx2: I'd suggest using ~9m long suspension lines
[16:30] <Laurenceb__> but multiple lines
[16:30] <Laurenceb__> so you avoid compound pendulum effects
[16:32] <Laurenceb__> you can also avoid spinning using similar techniques
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[17:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03F-2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=F-2
[17:32] Nick change: michal_f -> michal_f_WRK
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[17:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W9MOK-2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W9MOK-2
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[18:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03norma_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=norma_chase
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[21:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG7IXX-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG7IXX-11
[21:05] number10 (569e9e0e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.158.158.14) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[21:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ON6LS_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ON6LS_chase
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[21:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LORA2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LORA2
[21:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LORA3 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LORA3
[21:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03LORA1 after 036 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LORA1
[22:02] <Laurenceb__> any rocketry people here?
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[00:00] --- Wed Sep 30 2015