highaltitude.log.20150928

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[01:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF4OVF-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF4OVF-11
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[03:20] <Oddstr13> why did it have to be so cloudy, tonight of all nights? :(
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[03:22] <daveake> fine here :/
[03:22] <daveake> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CP9OqEoWEAAOvsC.jpg
[03:23] <Oddstr13> oh my, how many % compression is that? o.o
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[03:43] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ria-20a_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ria-20a_chase
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[06:14] <fsphil> hazy here but it was visible
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[06:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-12
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[08:16] <lz1dev> no luck with the clouds for super moon :(
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[08:17] <chimpusmaximus> Seen a few good photos on twitter this morning
[08:18] <gonzo_> and a lot of, white dot in the distance, taken on phones
[08:18] <chimpusmaximus> :-)
[08:18] <daveake> :)
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[08:24] <lz1dev> :D
[08:28] <daveake> The Telegraph sited this one as "possibly the worse image" https://twitter.com/GuineaGirl10/status/648320294067806208
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[08:29] <lz1dev> super dispointing half circle
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[08:29] <lz1dev> make that a hashtag
[08:30] <gonzo_> "I think I captured the very essence of the event..."
[08:31] <gonzo_> though I captured the essence, I stayed in bed
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[10:43] <Andrew_M0NRD> When I retrieved the PINKY/PIGLET payload at the weekend was surprised to find most of the balloon still attached, it had split rather burst into numerous fragments. It also burst lower than expected, is this common or was I just a little unlucky?
[10:44] <daveake> Rare but does happen
[10:45] <daveake> Well, I've had a few where about 2/3rs of the balloon come back down
[10:45] <fsphil> sounds like there might have been a weakness in it
[10:45] <daveake> Steve has a pic of a 2000g balloon that split in a line
[10:45] <Andrew_M0NRD> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xoVHI4kZmTI/Vgg-xiVrJEI/AAAAAAAACCI/rAMTP8PaGNI/s1600/IMAG0535.jpg not the best picture but examining it later was pretty much intact just a single split
[10:46] <Andrew_M0NRD> is it something to bear in mind when calculating decent rate?
[10:47] <eroomde> it might be a bit higher yes
[10:47] <eroomde> to be honest we used to detach the balloon line after burst anyway
[10:47] <eroomde> just to stop the risk of fouling
[10:47] <Andrew_M0NRD> using a cut down?
[10:47] <chimpusmaximus> With my limited experience i have always done a few calculations taking into account different amounts of balloon left attached.
[10:48] <eroomde> Andrew_M0NRD: yes
[10:48] <eroomde> chimpusmaximus: sometimes it contributes to drag too
[10:49] <eroomde> so one can't model it as just extra mass
[10:49] <chimpusmaximus> very true
[10:49] <eroomde> but it at least gives you an idea of the effect on landing site uncertainty
[10:51] <Andrew_M0NRD> is there any info on cut downs and how to fire them?
[10:52] <eroomde> well, i'm a big fan of the explosive ones
[10:52] <eroomde> but i'm not sure how grey an area their manufacture is
[10:52] <eroomde> but it's basically an e-match in a tube with some smokeless powder
[10:52] <eroomde> sealed at both ends with epoxy
[10:53] <eroomde> you need little more than a FET and some caps to store the firing energy to make them pop
[10:53] <daveake> https://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:flight_support
[10:53] <eroomde> though continuity testing is always reassuring
[10:54] <eroomde> i think 100 ohm is a bit large for the current limiting resistor
[10:54] <eroomde> oh sorry
[10:54] <eroomde> blind
[10:54] <eroomde> it's just charging the cap
[10:54] <daveake> :)
[10:54] <eroomde> well, i wouldn't fire it with that circuit
[10:55] <eroomde> but you get the gist
[10:55] <Andrew_M0NRD> thanks for the link.. something to bear in mind being so close to the east coast
[10:55] <eroomde> having your pyro connected almost directly to the high side seems unwise to me
[10:56] <eroomde> but that circuit does at least provide some isolation from pulling the power bus down through a short when you fire
[10:56] <eroomde> that's a rather junior mistake to make but people make it regardless
[10:57] <Andrew_M0NRD> thanks for the advice, will do some research before next "egg in space" flight... might have to drop the payload before it reaches the sea..
[10:57] <eroomde> hot wire is the other approach people take to cutting down
[10:58] <Andrew_M0NRD> just seeing that page and the radar reflector, would fitting one make getting approval easier?
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[10:58] <daveake> nope
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[11:00] <Andrew_M0NRD> sky was buzzing with single seater planes on Saturday.. didn't have a single phone call from any pilots, did on the Friday when I wasn't launching
[11:00] <eroomde> they ignore notams totally
[11:01] <Andrew_M0NRD> that was my conclusion
[11:01] <eroomde> it's a paperwork exercise
[11:01] <eroomde> but, such is life
[11:01] <Andrew_M0NRD> but if something was to happen, assume because notam issued liability is with them?
[11:01] <eroomde> IANAL
[11:02] <eroomde> but i think compared to launching without a notam, yes you'd be in a much better position
[11:02] <Andrew_M0NRD> as anything ever happened do you know.. risk adverse me ;-)
[11:02] <eroomde> nope
[11:02] <eroomde> nothing, that i've ever heard of
[11:03] <eroomde> once every few years the met office land on a greenhouse
[11:03] <eroomde> i think that's the extent of it
[11:03] <Andrew_M0NRD> thanks.. that radar reflector has given me idea for next Hamfest, microwave lot can use it for scatter propagation ;-)
[11:04] <eroomde> that's actually a really nice idea!
[11:04] <eroomde> wonder why no one has tried it before
[11:04] <eroomde> we can finally do legal ham repeaters :)
[11:04] <Andrew_M0NRD> patent pending... ;-)
[11:05] <Andrew_M0NRD> might get in touch with the microwave group and ask them... could fund some more flights as I'm hooked but broke ;-)
[11:06] <eroomde> are you on hydrogen yet?
[11:06] <Andrew_M0NRD> no, just two flights under the belt.. both at public events
[11:07] <eroomde> it helps with the cost
[11:07] <Andrew_M0NRD> roughly what is cost ?
[11:07] <eroomde> but yes i can understand the concern if at a public event
[11:07] <eroomde> umm, tbh i don't know off the top of my head - i buy hydrogen by the truckfull
[11:08] <eroomde> but it's like 1/5 the cost of h2 at qty
[11:08] <Andrew_M0NRD> get thee behind me satan... the wife won't be pleased ;-)
[11:09] <Andrew_M0NRD> "you aren't doing another one!"
[11:10] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/nurp7drsfo1tisg/2015-06-03%2013.43.54.jpg?dl=0
[11:10] <eroomde> i buy about 8 of those palettes at a time
[11:10] <eroomde> advantage is bulk discount
[11:13] <Andrew_M0NRD> anyway thanks for the advice/info best get back to day job, just got ideas mulling around after europhia of the weekend. Want to do some proper science/radio experiment launches not just novelty
[11:13] <eroomde> awesome
[11:14] <eroomde> always super keen to talk shop on interesting payloads and experiments
[11:15] <Andrew_M0NRD> had someone come to the club stand at the hamfest interested in microwaves and rain scatter etc, never twigged till I saw that page.. could be something to explore
[11:15] <Andrew_M0NRD> passive repeater ;-)
[11:16] <Andrew_M0NRD> don't know enough about microwave plumbing
[11:16] <Andrew_M0NRD> catch you later
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[11:31] <PE2BZ> !flights
[11:31] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03BENNY_1 10(8f40)
[11:31] <PE2BZ> !payload 8f40
[11:31] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Payload 03BENNY_1 10(8f40) 03$$BENNY_1 - 03PIE with sensors 300 baud - 03434.25 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/880Hz ASCII-8 none 2
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[11:55] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KG7TMT-11 after 0314 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG7TMT-11
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[12:12] <m0jfp> good afetrnoon all, any news on the launch of Benny HAB today?
[12:13] <craag> m0jfp: Cancelled due to prediction/notam conflict
[12:13] <m0jfp> thanks whats notam?
[12:14] <craag> notam is the permission to launch, granted by caa, sometimes with restrictions on wind direction
[12:14] <craag> well
[12:14] <craag> they grant permission
[12:14] <craag> notam is the bit of paper that tells pilots about it
[12:14] <m0jfp> ah OK, makes sense, sorry My first track was the pigs over the weekend, got a bit hooked..
[12:15] <craag> no worries :) welcome to the club!
[12:15] <m0jfp> cheers!
[12:15] <m0jfp> rea;ly need somewhere to update on cancellations and chnages in plans etc
[12:16] <m0jfp> make it obvious to the new commer ..
[12:16] <craag> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas
[12:19] <eroomde> the mialing list
[12:19] <eroomde> join it
[12:19] <m0jfp> ok found the post, thanks for the heads up
[12:19] <eroomde> it's the canonical place for luanch announcements
[12:20] <m0jfp> was thiking of buyiong the kit and trying a very controlled (on a rope) not so high flight
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[12:20] <eroomde> sure
[12:21] <eroomde> so you're a ham already so you are probably confident with radio, but it's often useful to track a few first
[12:21] <eroomde> just to get a feel for the radio side
[12:21] <m0jfp> I'm more interested at this stage in the radio and imaging side of it
[12:21] <eroomde> then dive in and play with microcontrollers to your heart's content and launch something
[12:22] <m0jfp> I was thinking just a few kids balloons and a bit of string, really simple to get a little height and a few shots of the garden ;-)
[12:23] <eroomde> pico ballooning is a thing
[12:23] <eroomde> people have circumnavigated with 10g payloads on large foil party balloons
[12:23] <m0jfp> Once I can see the prof of concept is working I can approach the club members here in chertsey and see if we have some smart people to assist with a real balloon test flight
[12:25] <eroomde> awesome
[12:25] <eroomde> well this is definitely the right corner of the internet
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[12:30] <m0jfp> yep sounds like a nice project to cut ones teeth on
[12:31] <m0jfp> have a look at our club blog: http://chertseyradioclub.blogspot.co.uk
[12:31] <m0jfp> its a bit rough and ready but we are willing to give anything a try
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[12:32] <eroomde> oh not too far then
[12:32] <eroomde> i used to live guildford way
[12:33] <eroomde> now oxford
[12:33] <m0jfp> big packet radio project push going on in Oxford at the moment
[12:33] <eroomde> oh?
[12:33] <m0jfp> I am based in Staines and work in Chertsey
[12:34] <eroomde> i don't really listen to radio anymore, beyond hab
[12:34] <eroomde> i'm a rubbish ham
[12:34] <eroomde> (m0tek)
[12:35] <m0jfp> well I am stuck in an office frm 10-6 so most of my Ham is using web sdr and software
[12:36] <m0jfp> but I do like to go portable and play HF
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[12:43] <gonzo_> what are they doing with packet?
[12:43] <gonzo_> on oxford?
[12:43] <gonzo_> in
[12:51] <chimpusmaximus> I did hear of some TV whitespace trials in Oxford
[12:54] <m0jfp> sorry Guys, I get pulled off on calls form the office here..
[12:54] <eroomde> no worries, irc is quite async
[12:54] <m0jfp> so packet will be good old fashioned 1200 baud (same as aprs) with BBS / node software
[12:55] <m0jfp> running mainly off of raspberry pi
[12:55] <m0jfp> but its very easy to use a laptop and soundcard to get access
[12:55] <eroomde> to maintain full buzzword compliance
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[12:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ria-20a_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ria-20a_chase
[12:59] <m0jfp> well I'm wodering what else could be done with ssdv
[13:00] <gonzo_> sounds like a revisitinmg of what we had in the 80's
[13:02] <gonzo_> it was a good system. As nothing like it existed
[13:03] <gonzo_> I used to keep in touch with friends back home whilst I was at uni.The only other comms was queueing for a callbox
[13:03] <eroomde> m0jfp: you mean things one can photograph with it?
[13:04] <m0jfp> well I got my novice . intermediate back in 1992, I wa given 70cm and 3 watts to play with
[13:04] <m0jfp> packet was really the only thing to use..
[13:05] <m0jfp> I ahd links in to the USA, india and VK land for a bit
[13:05] <gonzo_> when the parents brought me a TNC for xmas, they were a bit annoyed that it was a box with 5 leds on it
[13:05] <gonzo_> but it was imeasureable fun over the years
[13:06] Nick change: BitEvil -> SpeedEvil
[13:06] <m0jfp> gave access to so much information
[13:06] <gonzo_> having a datacomms system in an ali camera case in my room, friends wondered what .gov agency I worked for
[13:06] <m0jfp> I met many many interestng people
[13:06] <russss> I only really have a license so I can more effectively troll people
[13:07] <russss> also because it was easier than dealing with everyone asking why I didn't have a license
[13:07] <gonzo_> there are enough grumpy old men on AR, trolls are lost in the noise
[13:09] <m0jfp> also for those with an interest in networking we ahve a class A IP block 44.x.y.z
[13:09] <m0jfp> portal.ampr.org
[13:09] <m0jfp> so you can use TCP/Ip over radio
[13:09] <gonzo_> I remember seeing that ages ago. Didn't realise it was still live
[13:10] <m0jfp> register and request a block
[13:10] <russss> AFAICT, it's not hugely useful with the UK's restrictions on unattended operation
[13:10] <m0jfp> dont attach a radio ;-)
[13:11] <mattbrejza> tcp/ip over radio? you mean HSPA? :P
[13:11] <gonzo_> when packet was first allowed in the uk (after the trial on NoV) unattended was fine as long as you had a CWID every 15min
[13:11] <m0jfp> if you ahve a spare linux box, you can attach to the network quite easily and get access to a fe hundred nodes
[13:11] <gonzo_> which did clutter the chan a bit
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[13:12] <m0jfp> no need for morse id anmore
[13:12] <m0jfp> also only FULL /Advanced can get an unattended nov
[13:12] <gonzo_> yep, but no unattended without NoV
[13:12] <m0jfp> unless you hide in aprs 144.800
[13:13] <m0jfp> but again, if you dont attach a radio
[13:13] <gonzo_> I used to have a timer on the radio that turned the power down to mW for the cwid
[13:13] <m0jfp> smart!
[13:14] <gonzo_> as the licence didn't say anything about the power, just that the ID has to be the same freq as the main comms
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[13:14] <m0jfp> I got permission from the RA to run my 70CM packet station unattended (no NOV)
[13:14] <gonzo_> was a bit of a bodge, I had a timer that shut the power down after the mad length of a packet. So the start of the ID went out, but limited the impact
[13:15] <m0jfp> back in the day, but would get a few watts and stricktly limited now a days
[13:16] <gonzo_> there are popole still runnin on old permissions like that, though ofcom have no records of it, they still have the letters
[13:16] <m0jfp> its not valid, plus I moved out my parents home a very long time back ;-)
[13:16] <gonzo_> but they really are not interested in what happend on AR bands now. As long as it does not affect any other service
[13:16] <m0jfp> thats the way think about it
[13:17] <m0jfp> if you go ask they will watch, if you just do... and dont cause issue no harm..
[13:17] <craag> if nobody complains, they're not allowed to do anything about it
[13:17] <m0jfp> erm... thats not the case
[13:17] <gonzo_> if you ask, they will just shrug it off and pretty much say, they are not interested
[13:18] <m0jfp> if you ask and get an official NO.. that kills a project
[13:18] <m0jfp> if you just do it...
[13:18] <craag> That's how it was explained to me by the duty operator at baldock :)
[13:18] <gonzo_> I expect that it no-one complains, they are not required/have the resource to do anything about it.
[13:19] <m0jfp> thats more the case no on the ground officers to chase interference
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[13:19] <craag> It's wasteful allocation of resources to investigate stuff that isn't currently causing anyone problems. (according to their beancounters)
[13:20] <m0jfp> also no NOV = up to 400 watts right
[13:20] <m0jfp> under NOV you wil get very max 5 watts
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[13:21] <gonzo_> and the way they re-wrote the licence recentl;y, they can shut down AR access to bands if they can't be bothered to investigate
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[13:21] <m0jfp> vote of confidence for the RSGB?
[13:21] <gonzo_> m0jfp, for what type of nov?>
[13:23] <gonzo_> the rsgb are not great. Though many of the sub committies do excellent service for us
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[13:24] <gonzo_> the rsgb do like balloon people though. Mainly for the age group and outreach. Which comes from the work that ed and the cusf did
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[13:25] <m0jfp> as I say i am new to the balloon side of things but it looks lke great fun and interesting from a radio and digital imaging standpoint
[13:25] <eroomde> ed was cusf at the time
[13:25] <m0jfp> cusf?
[13:25] <m0jfp> and I dont know Ed.
[13:25] Nick change: Crashbone -> Crashbone|Away
[13:25] <eroomde> cambridge university spaceflight
[13:26] <m0jfp> ty
[13:26] <mattbrejza> https://twitter.com/cuspaceflight
[13:26] <eroomde> did a lot of the early flights and wrote the trajectory predictor and other stuff
[13:26] <eroomde> and did some work with schools which went down quite well at the time with rsgb and others as gonzo mentioned
[13:27] <eroomde> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7767376.stm
[13:30] <m0jfp> very cool, its a shame they dont last long in near space, the photographs from pink the pig .... were pretty good
[13:30] <daveake> It's possible to get them to last longer, though this type (latex) tend to burst anyway the next morning
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[13:31] <daveake> Plastic balloons can last lots longer, but don't have as much carrying capacity unless they're large (and expensive)
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[13:33] <m0jfp> would be good to get a geostationary satellite with ssdv
[13:33] <eroomde> quite the link budget
[13:33] <m0jfp> or attempt from the ISS
[13:33] <craag> well we've got amateur tv on the iss
[13:33] <craag> fstv
[13:33] <eroomde> iss does have sstv (not d) i believe
[13:34] <m0jfp> but a bit less common GHZ frequency
[13:34] <m0jfp> not easily accessable for us mortals
[13:34] <m0jfp> I have done the last 2 years of SSTV from ISS
[13:35] <m0jfp> is there a height lmit restriction above ones own property to hover a camera from?
[13:36] <eroomde> probably for a planning permission pov
[13:36] <m0jfp> staines is all of 5 miles from Heathrow airport .... will never get an approval from there
[13:36] <eroomde> for a tethered balloon i believe you need a notam if above something like 200ft
[13:36] <m0jfp> 61 meters
[13:37] <eroomde> hmm the si bot is broken
[13:37] <m0jfp> so 10-20 is nt going to be an issue for a few tests
[13:38] <m0jfp> avoiding the local helicopter and we also get a daily visit from the chinnocks
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[13:40] <m0jfp> so for kg7tmt balloon, how do i find the frequency its tx on
[13:41] <craag> 'Received via: APRS'
[13:41] <eroomde> 200ft
[13:41] <SIbot> In real units: 200 ft = 61 m
[13:41] <eroomde> there we go
[13:42] <m0jfp> good spot craag
[13:42] <Ian_> The website is factually incorrect: "a high altitude balloon was launched carrying 70cm ham radio tracker". It was undoubtedly a 70cm ISM band radio tracker?
[13:42] <craag> of course :)
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[13:42] <craag> but hams like to think they own the spectrum..
[13:42] <m0jfp> eroomde I rounded down..
[13:42] <Ian_> :)
[13:42] <m0jfp> we do
[13:43] <m0jfp> ;-)
[13:43] <m0jfp> especially 70cm...... ha ha ha
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[13:46] <gonzo_> had fun trying to explain once to soem upperty G3's about AR being 2ndry. They were upset that some 'kids' were pirating. It was the cadets on an exercise
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[13:47] <gonzo_> they were most indignant about it. Which made it all the more fun for me
[13:48] <m0jfp> Amen..
[13:48] <m0jfp> I've been head to head with many G station... I only got my M0 in June been a 2e1 forever before
[13:49] <m0jfp> so in all seriousness how do i get a bit more info on the 2 new items on the tracker map
[13:50] <craag> For american balloons, google is probably your best bet.
[13:50] <eroomde> lots of them are just on aprs
[13:50] <craag> We import their hab telemetry to our map, but the communities don't overlap as much as we'd like.
[13:52] <m0jfp> ok so nothing special just aprs.. ok.. are most balloons just aprs or are more using ssdv as well?
[13:52] <eroomde> no
[13:52] <eroomde> and no dichotomy either
[13:52] <eroomde> so
[13:52] <eroomde> american ones are usually aprs
[13:52] <eroomde> can't use it in the uk cos license
[13:52] <m0jfp> I can speak with my contacts in Seattle and within the ARRL to see if we can forge some links
[13:52] <eroomde> most in the uk use rtty on 70cm
[13:52] <eroomde> a smaller subset sometimes fly payloads that can do ssdv
[13:53] <eroomde> ssdv is just pictures, right?
[13:53] <eroomde> most habs don't downlink pictures
[13:53] <m0jfp> so the pigs over the weekend was a gerat baptism into the HAB world
[13:53] <eroomde> if you like bacon
[13:53] <m0jfp> funny !
[13:53] <eroomde> arrl know we exist and vice versa
[13:53] <eroomde> but it's a bit more conservative in the US
[13:54] <eroomde> big old multi-watt transmitters doing aprs
[13:54] <Ian_> Bacon is a HAB tradition . . . almost, but obligatory in some locations
[13:54] <eroomde> heavy payloads
[13:54] <eroomde> not that much new stuff gets tried as often as here
[13:54] <m0jfp> really, I thought they were a bit more gun ho
[13:54] <eroomde> having to work within our constraints (10mW) has fostered some good design
[13:54] <m0jfp> ah ok.. with restruictions comes great dsign
[13:55] <m0jfp> in the us I guess bigger better and less restrictions
[13:55] <m0jfp> 10 gallons of fuel..
[13:56] <fsphil> they don't need ssdv, they can do live ATV :)
[13:56] <eroomde> yeah exactly
[13:56] <m0jfp> wow
[13:56] <fsphil> that said there have been a few ssdv flights in the states
[13:57] <m0jfp> ok so from your guys experience, if I purchase the pi in the sky board and do a low test flight of a tethered baloon, there is no reaosn not to track on the habhub / ssdv pages right?
[13:57] <eroomde> nope
[13:57] <eroomde> tethering can be annoying
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[13:57] <eroomde> but you can do a shakedown test of a flight, certainly
[13:57] <m0jfp> yes agreed, but to keep it in control
[13:57] <m0jfp> and away form heathrow...
[13:58] <eroomde> note also there are definitely other options than buying an off-the-shelf flight computer
[13:58] <m0jfp> its only £135
[13:58] <eroomde> that's only a fairly recent thing, and building your own was, and probably still is, the default option
[13:58] <m0jfp> I got he pi and camera already
[13:58] <fsphil> all you need then is an ntx2 (transmitter), a gps receiver and some solder :)
[13:59] <gonzo_> teathering does mean you definitly have a good recovery. Which seems to be chetaing!
[13:59] <gonzo_> cheeting
[13:59] <fsphil> nearly
[13:59] <gonzo_> a agh
[13:59] <gonzo_> the usual excuse of vnc lag and being really crap at typing
[14:00] <m0jfp> well yes, id love to build and test but I have 3 boys and a busy schedule at the moment.. Ham radio projects need to be done in limited time slots at a moments notice
[14:00] <chimpusmaximus> Could still get stcuk in a tree....
[14:00] <chimpusmaximus> stuck
[14:00] <fsphil> yeah time can be a pain
[14:00] <gonzo_> that would be very bad planning thoug
[14:00] <eroomde> time becomes a pain when presented with time savers, certainly
[14:00] <m0jfp> i'm 39 and at the prime of being a dad and an employee
[14:01] <m0jfp> have 3 6 and 9 years old boys so time is limited
[14:02] <m0jfp> but if its OK will have a play with the kit and do some test data sessions
[14:02] <m0jfp> keep you all posted on here
[14:02] <m0jfp> I am sure eventually it will lead to a full flight, but I am guessing the launch will not be local to here
[14:03] <m0jfp> back in 2 mins
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[14:06] <daveake> Even as an interested party :p, I'll agree with the others and suggest that you DIY rather than buy a ready-made tracker
[14:07] <daveake> As fsphil said you only need a ublox gps and an ntx2 radio to add to your Pi and camera
[14:07] <daveake> and whilst the pi in the sky code is open source, you'll learn a lot more (and get more reward at the end) if you DIY
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[14:20] <Ian_> Giles Read, G1MFG, expressed interest in the UKHAS IRC role in development of HAB technology and people during a convo at Hamfest (Friday).
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[14:26] <eroomde> Ian_: it's about the single most important resource we have
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[14:36] <Andrew_M0NRD> \away
[14:37] <Andrew_M0NRD> Looks like some one been talking about me while I've been away
[14:37] <eroomde> m0jfp saw the pig launch
[14:37] <Andrew_M0NRD> nice write up. *blush*
[14:39] <Andrew_M0NRD> Giles Read was the RSGB taking the photos, didn't realise he has done some launches in the past
[14:41] <eroomde> name doesn't ring a bell
[14:43] <Andrew_M0NRD> was a long time ago.. he said in an email I received
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[14:45] <eroomde> Andrew_M0NRD: when?
[14:45] <eroomde> steve couldn't find any uk stuff before james in 2005, which is when the collective memory here starts
[14:46] <eroomde> i'd probably remember it if it's been since the currently assumed beginning of uk hab history
[14:46] <Andrew_M0NRD> I'll email and find out more details
[14:47] <Andrew_M0NRD> technical editor of Radcom, the journal of the RSGB apparently
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[14:58] <Ian_> Giles was at the lead of some good 13cm ATV stuff a good few years ago. Several years before joining Radcom
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[15:00] <Ian_> I am not aware about prior HAB activity though.
[15:02] <Andrew_M0NRD> asked for some details, to quote "I think 26km is a little higher than any of my launches ever reached, but it was a long time ago and I’d have to look up the details. We never tried to recover any payloads – they were quite expensive, but the person paying the bill wasn’t bothered enough to arrange a chase vehicle!"
[15:03] <eroomde> still dateless
[15:03] <eroomde> oh well
[15:04] <Andrew_M0NRD> have asked for dates... patience ;-)
[15:04] <eroomde> it'd be great ti improve the pre-ukhas picture
[15:05] <{^TIBS01^}> <---- 2e0sgg anyone spoke to me before lol
[15:05] <eroomde> at the moment jcoxon is the big bang and we have no concept of time before him
[15:05] <eroomde> but we can assume he must have happened because hab is still expanding
[15:05] <Andrew_M0NRD> boom boom
[15:05] <jcoxon> oh there were balloons before me
[15:05] <eroomde> and if you work backwards given the current expansion rate we can pinpoint when he must have launched
[15:05] <jcoxon> there was one with a chair
[15:05] <eroomde> also, he wrote about it on the internet
[15:05] <eroomde> one with a chair?
[15:06] <jcoxon> yeah they launched a chair and a video camera
[15:06] <eroomde> a manned chair?
[15:06] <jcoxon> no
[15:06] <jcoxon> it was artistic
[15:06] <eroomde> do you mean the JP advert?
[15:06] <jcoxon> no years before that
[15:06] <eroomde> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VdhZ2r6lvs
[15:06] <eroomde> in the uk?
[15:06] <jcoxon> http://www.artscatalyst.org/escape-vehicle-no-6
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[15:07] <jcoxon> that was 2004
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[15:07] <eroomde> you didn't mention it to steve for his talk :P
[15:08] <eroomde> that's quite a launch
[15:08] <eroomde> for a chair
[15:08] <jcoxon> sure i did
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[15:08] <jcoxon> never claimed to be the first :-)
[15:09] <eroomde> oh well, glad the fossil record has thrown something up
[15:10] <jcoxon> should proably link that somewhere
[15:10] <eroomde> yeah
[15:11] <eroomde> so steve sees it
[15:11] <eroomde> :)
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[15:18] <Laurenceb__> oh I remember that lol
[15:18] <Laurenceb__> wow, had completely forgotten about the chair
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[15:23] <{^TIBS01^}> u talking to me
[15:23] <{^TIBS01^}> steve ?
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[15:23] <eroomde> {^TIBS01^}: are you having problems? this is an irc channel talking about ballooning
[15:24] <{^TIBS01^}> nah im not having problems im just seeing what balloons are goin off in the uk
[15:24] <eroomde> ah right
[15:24] <eroomde> none right now but there's an online calendar
[15:24] <eroomde> and launches are announced on the ukhas mailing list
[15:24] <{^TIBS01^}> whats the site ?
[15:25] <eroomde> http://habitat.habhub.org/calendar/
[15:25] <eroomde> that's the feed
[15:25] <eroomde> you can point any calendar program at it
[15:26] <{^TIBS01^}> ok dokie
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[15:35] <Andrew_M0NRD> eroomde Got some more info flights in 2003, using fast scan TV on 13cm with APRS on audio subcarrier
[15:35] <eroomde> in the UK?
[15:36] <eroomde> if so i guess they didn't share our caution to stay within the radio regulations, unless they got an experimental permit or something
[15:36] <Andrew_M0NRD> From New forest http://www.batc.org.uk/cq-tv/archive/2003.html CQ-TV 204 pages 25-32
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[15:37] <Laurenceb__> 13cm?! thats... interesting
[15:37] <eroomde> lots of atv is 13cm
[15:38] <Laurenceb__> yeah but broadcast from an airborne platform
[15:39] <eroomde> sure
[15:39] <eroomde> well any of this is wierd airborne
[15:39] <eroomde> in as much as we couldn't do it legally nowadays
[15:40] <Andrew_M0NRD> Think it is was for an artist.. sounds familiar?
[15:40] <Andrew_M0NRD> can't really read it atm supposed to be working ;-)
[15:42] <Andrew_M0NRD> Year later help on the chair "escape vehicle no.6" http://www.simonfaithfull.org/works/escape-vehicle-no-6/
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[15:46] <gb73d> LOL bit dangeroo
[15:46] <eroomde> yeah - look at the launch vid
[15:46] <eroomde> the past is a foreign country
[15:47] <fsphil> that's .. AAFSK
[15:47] <m0jfp> the good old days again..
[15:47] <fsphil> FSK in an FM audio carrier modulated in an FM video signal
[15:48] <gb73d> a leg fell off !
[15:48] <Andrew_M0NRD> fsphil been in touch with the guy Giles who did the tv/audio link
[15:49] <Andrew_M0NRD> Details of earlier payload http://www.batc.org.uk/cq-tv/archive/2003.html CQ-TV 204 pages 25-32
[15:49] <Andrew_M0NRD> he works for RSGB as was at Hamfest launch
[15:50] <fsphil> guessing he managed to get an NoV for that then?
[15:50] <fsphil> or was this 2.4ghz ism?
[15:50] <fsphil> looks too good for that
[15:50] <eroomde> 2.4ghz
[15:50] <eroomde> but i still don't think you have the power for that under ism
[15:51] <fsphil> not without a serious dish on the ground anyway
[15:52] <mfa298> sounds like they used 2.4GHz: he first step was to specify the RF link.
[15:52] <mfa298> It had already been determined that the
[15:52] <mfa298> operating frequency would be in the
[15:52] <mfa298> 2.4GHz band, on one of the JFMG-
[15:52] <mfa298> licensed programme making & special
[15:52] <mfa298> events channels.
[15:52] <eroomde> 6W amplifier
[15:52] <eroomde> (oh just imagine what one could do with 6W today)
[15:53] <eroomde> tinytrak
[15:54] <eroomde> figure 11 is a work of art
[15:55] <fsphil> Maximum ERP: Analogue 40dBW
[15:55] <fsphil> rules might have been different back then
[15:56] <fsphil> for the PMSE licenses
[15:56] <Andrew_M0NRD> what rules?
[15:57] <eroomde> for broadcasting that kind of power and bandwidth
[15:57] <eroomde> it's a special exemption you can get (you have to buy it from ofcom)
[15:57] <fsphil> it may have been a commercial license
[15:58] <eroomde> e.g. 2-5GHz with 10mhz bandwith (i presume what you need for standard 6MHz vid) is £12 for £12 hrs
[15:58] <eroomde> yeah it definitely wasn't a ham thing
[15:59] <Andrew_M0NRD> for the chair flight Giles says "If I recall correctly, the hardware for the Farnborough flight was similar but had the camera on a boom arm and used a 2W 13cm transmitter and a vertical sleeve dipole rather than the 6W and special to type antenna on the earlier ones. Receive hardware was a fully steerable 24dBi antenna plus preamp feeding a G1MFG 13cm receiver and timebase corrector and thence to
[16:00] <Andrew_M0NRD> a mini DV recorder
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[16:05] <gonzo_> lookslike they didn;t get that back. If their last lock was 70k ft
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: do they take special note that it's at 30000 feet?
[16:06] <SIbot> In real units: 30000 ft = 9144 m
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: as obviously that would be way more interferey than one at ground level
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[16:09] <Laurenceb__> lol page 24
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[16:16] <mattbrejza> you wouldnt get a notam for there today
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[16:33] <m0jfp> notam for IO91SK please..
[16:33] <eroomde> i don't think the caa speak locators
[16:33] <m0jfp> but you do
[16:34] <m0jfp> and if you look it up you will see no chance
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[17:58] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:43] <Lunar_Lander> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1lke6hPHKJDSFQyRWN6ZkdEU3c/view?pli=1 new :)
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[19:05] <Andrew_M0NRD> evening! How do you view historical ssdv images?
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[19:05] <Andrew_M0NRD> on ssdv.habhub.org
[19:08] <Andrew_M0NRD> ignore.. worked it out
[19:10] <fsphil> my fault. never did document that properly
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[19:45] <arjunnaha> Does dl-fldigi use any special ports to upload to habhub? School need to unblock ports on the firewall.
[19:45] <daveake> No it's http port 80
[19:46] <arjunnaha> 😂 That's good
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[20:40] <mfa298> arjunnaha: if they make things go via a proxy it's possible that might give issues - It's probably worth testing well in advance of actually needing it and make sure it can include
[20:41] <mfa298> well in advance meaning a couple of weeks (in case you need to get someone to make changes)
[20:42] <arjunnaha> Yes definitely! We use crappy RM, to make firewall changes we have to FAX them. Unbelievable in this day and age.
[20:42] <fsphil> lol
[20:42] <gonzo_nb> keep a phone with teathering in your pocket, if there is h
[20:42] <gonzo_nb> phone coverage
[20:42] <fsphil> we had RM back in the day
[20:42] <fsphil> crap back then too
[20:43] <mfa298> I've come accross a few things that still need fax, although fax for firewall requests is a bit excessive
[20:43] <fsphil> first networked PCs I ever saw though
[20:43] <gonzo_nb> 'course, we 'ad it tough....
[20:43] <mfa298> * generally for things where a signature is required and they don't understand signed emails
[20:47] <daveake> I have one customer that till recently sent orders by fax; now they send emails ...
[20:47] <daveake> ... however the email is actually a screendump of their order screen in SAP
[20:48] <daveake> I guess it's a step forward
[20:48] <gonzo_nb> I still have a fax number
[20:48] <daveake> I do - a virtual fax
[20:48] <daveake> costs £3/month
[20:48] <daveake> which was worth it for those orders
[20:48] <gonzo_nb> ditto. ha dto set it up for something and it just runs till out of credit
[20:48] <daveake> now probably not worth even that amount
[20:48] <fsphil> we probably spend more than £3 a month on paper and ink for ours
[20:49] <gonzo_nb> mine is an 0845, but you have to have outgoing credit to keep it going. and have to rx one fax per month. Soi I ude the credit faxing myself
[20:50] <gonzo_nb> about 20p/month
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[21:12] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[21:13] <arjunnaha> We've a dedicated fax machine and number
[21:14] <arjunnaha> Our school is good though, facilities put up my X-50 and drilled through walls and stuff to route it to a classroom...
[21:14] <fsphil> nice!
[21:16] <gonzo_nb> arjunnaha, where abouts are you?
[21:16] <arjunnaha> Reading
[21:16] <gonzo_nb> planning to launch from the school grounds?
[21:17] <arjunnaha> Hopefully
[21:18] <arjunnaha> If the weather is looking good then 12th October
[21:19] <gonzo_nb> central to the bulk of the receiving stations, should have lots of listeners
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[21:20] <gonzo_nb> even during the working day, lots of people run their stations remotley
[21:20] <gonzo_nb> -e
[21:21] <arjunnaha1> We're planning a 11:20 hab time launch so the rest of our students can see the launch
[21:21] <gonzo_nb> try and let us know how the preps are going on the day, on irc
[21:21] <daveake> 11:20? s/ISH/precise/
[21:22] <craag> or just get someone else to tweet progress with #ukhas
[21:22] <gonzo_nb> gives you the best chance of getting more listeners
[21:22] <craag> first launches can be rather daunting - so delegate some of the peripheral stuff :)
[21:23] <arjunnaha1> daveake precise as we only have 15 mins to launch at break
[21:23] <craag> aim to be ready an hour before then
[21:23] <craag> at least
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[21:24] <arjunnaha1> Craag delegated naff jobs to my fellow students who were more than happy to miss a day of school!
[21:24] <craag> sweet :)
[21:24] <arjunnaha1> We're arriving at 7, so we'll definitely be ready ;-)
[21:24] <craag> Ah I think I remember giving you this talk before ;)
[21:24] <arjunnaha1> Yes!!!
[21:26] <michal_f> is there a better way to run a station remotely than a VNC ?
[21:29] <mattbrejza> remote desktop is better but its the same kinda thing
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[21:43] <arjunnaha1> Remote desktop for me is like a native experience thanks to Infinity 4!
[21:48] <michal_f> i've been using teamviewer, it's good
[21:52] <michal_f> OT: I'm watching planes on ADSB and also through my window (I'm close to airport), and ADSB is laging over a minute... why ?
[21:53] <mfa298> Remote desktop can be interesting if it tries to remap audio devices to/from the client machine
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[22:13] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[22:17] <tweetBot> @MalbikEndar: Has anyone tried to capture pictures of the moon from a HAB? #ukhas
[22:21] <craag> hmm that might have been fun
[22:22] Action: craag chalks it down for 2033
[22:24] <fsphil> a few of my payloads have imaged the moon
[22:28] <fsphil> hah, this is my best one. http://i.imgur.com/IOtV8aH.jpg
[22:29] <fsphil> need to work on that
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[22:45] <craag> moon is rather small..
[22:45] <craag> we had a bit of fun trying to properly capture the sun
[22:46] <eroomde> same size
[22:46] <craag> yep, but sun was a lot brighter, which helped on exposure length.
[22:46] <Laurenceb__> http://www.psi.ch/materials/BooksEN/claude_book.pdf
[22:47] <craag> would be tough to do the MAJORA technique for the moon
[22:47] <craag> basically just need a babs rig..
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[23:30] Nick change: Crashbone|Away -> Crashbone
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[00:00] --- Tue Sep 29 2015