highaltitude.log.20150918

[00:15] <SpeedEvil> ulfr: what's the issue?
[00:45] <ulfr> Nothing, yet.
[00:45] <ulfr> I'm just wondering.
[00:46] <ulfr> I'm pondering about using a IC based magnetometer to sense fluctuation in the magnetic field.
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[01:09] <SpeedEvil> for what? solar storm sensing?
[01:17] <ulfr> Well, yes, and also to measure the K-index.
[01:17] <ulfr> Most recent ICs have xyz sensing.
[01:17] <ulfr> I'm just wondering if anyone has done this before.
[01:20] <ulfr> I was thinking about using Honeywell's Anistotropic Magnetoresistive sensor *gibberish* *gibberish*
[01:20] <ulfr> http://www.adafruit.com/datasheets/HMC5883L_3-Axis_Digital_Compass_IC.pdf
[01:20] <ulfr> It seems to have resolution of 2mgauss
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[02:21] <SpeedEvil> That's misleading
[02:22] <SpeedEvil> If the resolution is 2mg, and the noise is >2mg, then the resolution is limited by the integral linearity of the ADC, not the bit-depth for sufficiently long averaging periods
[02:22] <SpeedEvil> Should work fine.
[03:03] <ulfr> That's what I'm wondering about
[03:03] <ulfr> hence the confusion
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[03:04] <ulfr> I have something of 50┬ÁT value and I want to measure deviation in that field
[03:04] <ulfr> I guess I'll just have to order few chips and try this out
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[05:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03xfjkl_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=xfjkl_chase
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[05:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ola_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ola_chase
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[06:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hi_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hi_chase
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[08:46] <ntx2> Hi there - have a quick question on ssdv. I am sending ssdv packets from my payload and I am using dl-fldigi to decode them. I see that none of the images have been received 100% since it complains of missing packets. Since the payload is right next to the receiver, there should not be any missing packets, right?
[08:46] <ntx2> what might be the cause of this problem?
[08:47] <ntx2> will appreciate any help in debugging this situation
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[08:50] <SM0ULC> possibly overload of the receiver?
[08:50] <mattbrejza> rtl sdr + crappy pc?
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[08:51] <fsphil> yeah I've seen lots of problems with sdrs and ssdv
[08:52] <fsphil> it's very sensitive to timing
[08:52] <fsphil> if you receive a bit and it's wrong, the FEC can correct it
[08:52] <fsphil> but if the bit is missing it throws the rest of the data out of sync
[08:53] <fsphil> what SM0ULC too, overloading can cause errors
[08:54] <ntx2> interesting thought. How do I confirm that my PC is overloaded?
[08:54] <SM0ULC> ntx2: i meant signalwise
[08:54] <ntx2> It seems to be performing fine and I do not see any lags
[08:54] <eroomde> i think everyone is refering to the sdr rather than the pc
[08:54] <eroomde> mostly*
[08:54] <ntx2> so this will happen on real flight too, right
[08:55] <fsphil> try moving the payload away from your receiver
[08:55] <ntx2> or do I rely on kindness of strangers to fill in the missing bytes?
[08:55] <ntx2> let me try that
[08:55] <eroomde> or disconnect the antenna from the sdr
[08:57] <ntx2> moved the payload away. will update on how that behaves
[08:58] <ntx2> if my GPS is behind a couple of layers of polystyrene, will that affect its performance?
[08:59] <eroomde> not really
[08:59] <eroomde> should be fine
[09:00] <ntx2> thanks. Good to know
[09:02] <ntx2> when providing a frequency for tracking the flight (in the UKHAS approval doc), I should give the same frequency at which I am receiving the signal on my gqrx, right?
[09:03] <ntx2> evven though it might drift with tempareture etc
[09:03] <eroomde> probably best to just give the nominal frequency
[09:04] <eroomde> e.g if you have a 434.650MHz mtx2, give it as 434.650MHz
[09:04] <eroomde> people can find it specifically when they look
[09:07] <ntx2> ok thats good :)
[09:07] <ntx2> when should I apply for approval for launch? I am tentatively planning for next Saturday (not tomorrow) but still watching the weather to see if it will be favorable.
[09:08] <eroomde> uk?
[09:08] <ntx2> France
[09:08] <eroomde> i don't know what the rules are with your aviation authority
[09:09] <ntx2> I meant the approval from UKHAS (I believe I need an approval to upload data into the HABHUB server)?
[09:09] <ntx2> I have already applied to authorities here
[09:09] <eroomde> oh right!
[09:09] <eroomde> oh, whenever
[09:09] <eroomde> get it tested first, you can do that whenever
[09:10] <ntx2> isnt there is a chance of clash of frequencies?
[09:10] <eroomde> then get a flight doc approved once you're fairy sure the weather is going to be ok
[09:10] <ntx2> ok
[09:10] <eroomde> i doubt there will be too many other flyers in france
[09:20] <ntx2> ok....
[09:21] <ntx2> thanks
[09:21] <ntx2> it is still missing packets after moving the payload away
[09:22] <ntx2> eroomde: if I disconnect the antenna from sdr, it wont be able to receive the signal, right?
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[09:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> It will probably get more than enough signal ,ocally
[09:22] <fsphil> you'd be surprised
[09:23] <ntx2> let me get this straight
[09:24] <ntx2> you want me to disconnect the antenna from the USB port of my laptop? or do you want me to disconnect the payload antenna?
[09:24] <ntx2> basically which antenna to disconnect the receiver or sender
[09:24] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You need to disconnect the aerial from the SDR dongle not the USB port
[09:24] <ntx2> oh ok
[09:24] <ntx2> ok did it
[09:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> or the payload antenna at the moment your getting too much signal into the Dongle
[09:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> by the sound of it
[09:25] <eroomde> this is one hypothesis anyway
[09:25] <eroomde> yeah
[09:25] <ntx2> sure
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[09:25] <ntx2> you are right
[09:25] <ntx2> after removing the aerial, it is still fine
[09:25] <DoYouKnow> yo
[09:25] <DoYouKnow> I'm trying to get raw IQ data from this GPS dongle (ublox7)
[09:25] <DoYouKnow> what's the interface?
[09:26] <fsphil> hopefully it decodes a bit better now ntx2
[09:26] <eroomde> i am pressure sure that ublox modules won't give you raw IQ
[09:26] <eroomde> not 100% sure
[09:26] <eroomde> but pretty sure
[09:26] <DoYouKnow> not even if you have access to the confidential spec?
[09:26] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> agreed eroomde
[09:26] <DoYouKnow> there has to be a awy
[09:26] <DoYouKnow> *way
[09:26] <Upu> have you got access to the confidential spec dock9 ?
[09:26] <Upu> derp
[09:27] <Upu> DoYouKnow
[09:27] <DoYouKnow> no
[09:27] <Upu> and do you mean raw timing data or raw iq ?
[09:27] <eroomde> i don't know, it's possible that the IQ gets further processed in hardware before it gets into a state where the embedded microcontroller has access to it
[09:27] <DoYouKnow> raw iq
[09:27] <Upu> doubt it
[09:27] <fsphil> the interface might not be fast enough anyway
[09:27] <eroomde> as far as i understand, it's hard to get much beyond pseudoranges
[09:27] <eroomde> yeah exactly
[09:27] <mattbrejza> does hte processor even get the IQ data, or does it go straight to hardware correlators?
[09:28] <eroomde> that was my point
[09:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> if you want raw IQ use an SDR device!
[09:28] <Upu> BladeRF
[09:28] <mattbrejza> oh i missed that
[09:28] <Upu> etc
[09:28] <DoYouKnow> It's digitized on the RF chip, which is the ARM7
[09:28] <eroomde> DoYouKnow: there are plenty of SDRs and even just ICs that will spit out IQ
[09:28] <eroomde> if not 'raw', at least at some low IF
[09:28] <eroomde> like 4MHz
[09:29] <DoYouKnow> yeah, but it has to be possible with this
[09:29] <eroomde> i'm not sure it is
[09:29] <eroomde> why do you say it has to be?
[09:29] <DoYouKnow> it's all transfered through standard interfaces on the ARM7
[09:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> doubt it
[09:29] <DoYouKnow> and the firmware can be updated to include new PRNs
[09:29] <eroomde> but the correlation is probably done in hardware
[09:29] <DoYouKnow> they've done it before
[09:29] <eroomde> a normal arm7 wouldn't have the horsepower
[09:29] <Upu> don't think it can DoYouKnow
[09:30] <eroomde> including a new PRN is an entirely different thing to being about to output IQ data
[09:30] <eroomde> the ability to introduce a new PRN in absolutely no way implies that it should be possible to get IQ data out
[09:30] <eroomde> architecturally or from a firmware pov
[09:31] <DoYouKnow> how could they not allow IQ data access? from an internal testing standpoint
[09:31] <DoYouKnow> it's 2 x 5-bit ADCs
[09:31] <Upu> in a production module its not needed they can just test the outout of the module ?
[09:31] <DoYouKnow> there's a way to output the IQ magnitude but not also the sign
[09:31] <DoYouKnow> and only one sample
[09:32] <Upu> anyway to summise most likely not possible
[09:32] <eroomde> only one sample?
[09:32] <DoYouKnow> yeah, it's a testing screen in u-center
[09:32] <DoYouKnow> you can check the IQ magnitude
[09:32] <DoYouKnow> for I and Q
[09:33] <mattbrejza> well they could have a IQ bypass, in the same way the rtlsdr does, we are only speculating
[09:34] <DoYouKnow> I could only read parts of the firmware
[09:35] <DoYouKnow> other parts appeared to be packed, and unpacked on load
[09:35] <DoYouKnow> I tried opening with ida, and looking at it with baudline and xorstrings
[09:35] <mattbrejza> it would probably be a case of writing to a secret register which controls a mux somewhere in the hardware
[09:36] <DoYouKnow> yeah, I knoww
[09:36] <DoYouKnow> that makes sense, I mean
[09:36] <eroomde> so how would you be getting raw IQ out?
[09:36] <eroomde> which port?
[09:37] <DoYouKnow> usb
[09:37] <eroomde> and what sample rate?
[09:37] <DoYouKnow> I think 6Msps is the maximum
[09:37] <DoYouKnow> although it may do a little bit higher
[09:38] <DoYouKnow> (for glonass)
[09:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> eh, the ublox has USB on the chip ?
[09:38] <mattbrejza> the bigger ones do
[09:38] <DoYouKnow> this is a ublox7 usb dongle
[09:38] <ntx2> still losing packets :(
[09:39] <Laurenceb_> this is not going to work DoYouKnow
[09:39] <eroomde> DoYouKnow: sure, but that doesn't follow that the thing coming out of the ublox module is usb, that's all they were saying
[09:39] <Laurenceb_> but there is some good news
[09:39] <eroomde> it could be a serial-usb converter
[09:39] <Laurenceb_> you can buy a
[09:39] <Laurenceb_> SiGe dongle
[09:39] <eroomde> e.g. the ublox max7 chips don't have usb
[09:39] <eroomde> but the neo7 chips do
[09:40] <DoYouKnow> g7020-kt
[09:40] <eroomde> so firehosing 6MBps continuous might be hard-ish if it's an arm7 architecture as you say, as i believe that that doesn't have DMA, though i guess if the chip didn't have much else to do it could do it
[09:40] <DoYouKnow> I think that's my chipset
[09:40] <DoYouKnow> iirc
[09:41] <Laurenceb_> DoYouKnow: what are you aiming to do?
[09:41] <DoYouKnow> get raw IQ off the GPS, so I can plot an fft, and listen to the satellites
[09:41] <Laurenceb_> so use a SiGe dongle
[09:42] <ntx2> bye for now
[09:42] <DoYouKnow> how much are those?
[09:42] <eroomde> ... or any sdr with a decent filter
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[09:42] <Laurenceb_> yeah fairdoos
[09:43] <Laurenceb_> airspy is good enough
[09:45] <Laurenceb_> DoYouKnow: I did take a look at software based processing on arm cortex
[09:45] <prog> "enough" ?
[09:45] <Laurenceb_> its borderline doable on M4
[09:45] <prog> I'm upset.
[09:45] <eroomde> you'll get over it prog
[09:45] <eroomde> it's a thick-skin channel :p
[09:45] <eroomde> yeah i share the m4 sentiment
[09:45] <Laurenceb_> prog: I've got a SiGe dongle - its nice as its an exact copy of what you get from a front end
[09:45] <eroomde> it's certainly more doable with a ram buffer and not needing updates absudly often
[09:46] <Laurenceb_> in the end I decided I had better things to do with my time
[09:46] <Laurenceb_> but I had a paper architecture and some simple asm benchmarks of the core routines
[09:46] <Laurenceb_> it looked like:
[09:46] <DoYouKnow> Laurenceb_: isn't there some interest in providing for hobbyists that are interested in satellites at ublox?
[09:46] <eroomde> DoYouKnow: i have built my own version of what you are trying to do
[09:46] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/znxeaixm3xlpzbi/2013-05-15%2012.45.25.jpg?dl=0
[09:46] <Laurenceb_> DMA -> buffer -> pre processor -> buffer in condensed nibble based format
[09:47] <DoYouKnow> surely they would be happy to help out satellite people wanting to plot an fft
[09:47] Nick change: x-f_ -> x-f
[09:47] <Laurenceb_> -> multiple tracking channels in asm
[09:47] <prog> A maxim on RF. Gooood luck
[09:47] <Laurenceb_> I spent ages optimising the condensed format
[09:47] <eroomde> prog: you talkin to me?
[09:47] <prog> eroomde: yes.
[09:47] <eroomde> it works fine
[09:47] <Laurenceb_> a nibble based one was the best I found, slightly counter-intuitive as its pretty wide
[09:48] <prog> many things work fine, until they don't work ..
[09:48] <mattbrejza> DoYouKnow: you might as well plot the fft of white noise
[09:48] <eroomde> that is a true and circular statement with which i can't argue because it's meaningless
[09:48] <prog> watch out the new article bu Upu... it will spread some good RF knowledge
[09:48] <Upu> soon(TM)
[09:49] <eroomde> is upu going to teach me RF knowledge?
[09:49] <Upu> haha
[09:49] <Upu> I suspect not
[09:49] <Upu> I'm going to dumb it down enough so people like me sort of get it enough
[09:50] <eroomde> DoYouKnow: anyway, the point is, if money is a problem you can still make up a dongle for cheaper than buying a decent sdr
[09:50] <eroomde> with that thing we then wrote a software gps receiver and it let us try a bunch of interesting stuff
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[09:50] <eroomde> more advanced ways of tracking the gps signals to get more accurate fixes, and so on
[09:50] <Laurenceb_> wheras I just stole one from Kai Borre
[09:50] <DoYouKnow> have you figured out a way of etching pcb without chemicals?
[09:51] <eroomde> yes
[09:51] <mattbrejza> sending it to china works pretty well
[09:51] <eroomde> get someone else to do it
[09:51] <eroomde> in china
[09:51] <Laurenceb_> what eroomde said
[09:51] <DoYouKnow> I don't have my credit card right now. I gave it to my dad. I can only buy stuff from paypal
[09:51] <Laurenceb_> seeedstudio is now silly cheap and ~1 week delivery
[09:52] <DoYouKnow> he said I was eating too much
[09:52] <eroomde> so eat less and have PCBs instead
[09:52] <eroomde> you can probably use paypal anyway for hackvana
[09:52] <Laurenceb_> loldramaz
[09:52] <mattbrejza> http://dirtypcbs.com/ $9
[09:52] <Laurenceb_> why not seeedstudio?
[09:53] <mattbrejza> oh $14 i lie
[09:53] <eroomde> i don't think it matters that much who you go with
[09:53] <mattbrejza> seeed charge lots for shipping
[09:53] <eroomde> they probably all end up in the same one or two big factories
[09:53] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[09:54] <Laurenceb_> actually yeah, thats equal or better specs to seeed
[09:54] <Laurenceb_> its not "dirty" at all
[09:54] <mattbrejza> http://dev.dangerousprototypes.com/store/pcbs which i think is the same place but $9.95, perhaps no shipping...?
[09:54] <eroomde> DoYouKnow: this is it just sanity checking that it spat out the right iq with a siggen https://www.dropbox.com/s/f2mdzhyx5j9s5yv/2013-05-18%2016.47.09.jpg?dl=0
[09:54] <mattbrejza> na its pretty decent but the names stuck
[09:54] <Laurenceb_> internal slots is nice too
[09:55] <eroomde> and here are some fix ellipses (2 std deviations iirc), one with a simple decoder, one (the smaller) with a slightly more intelligent software tracking system https://www.dropbox.com/s/9q3fxkqgsfqd2nw/beforeafter.png?dl=0
[09:56] Action: fsphil has spectrum analyser envy
[09:56] <mattbrejza> compared to uk pcb people which can only manage 0.5mm drills... http://ragworm.eu/
[09:56] <Laurenceb_> heh
[09:56] <Laurenceb_> we use pcbtrain at work
[09:56] <eroomde> fsphil: that's just a scope
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[09:57] <eroomde> yeah ragworm isn't great
[09:57] <eroomde> it's 1% pcb and 99% twitter accounts and marketing
[09:57] <mattbrejza> their boards arnt even orange...
[09:57] <eroomde> and happy fun lets-all-dye-our-hair-and-call-ourselves-makers stuff
[09:57] <mattbrejza> fsphil: was playing with one of these the other day, soooo nice https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QDaPkvFVEeavX-FQyPvAvyeBRKurvR5TXA/view?usp=sharing
[09:57] <eroomde> i was about to say
[09:58] <eroomde> my scope has a decent hardware speccan built in
[09:58] <fsphil> eroomde: nice scope then. does fft better than my puny rigol
[09:58] <eroomde> decent enough anyway
[09:58] <eroomde> 3GHz
[09:58] <eroomde> i do actually love my scope
[09:58] <eroomde> i feel like i can do anything with it
[10:02] <DoYouKnow> isn't there a narrowband carrier for gps?
[10:03] <DoYouKnow> the carrier is 1.023 MHz wide?
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[10:03] <DoYouKnow> I see little blips occasionally on the GPS frequency
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[10:03] <DoYouKnow> near where I'd expect the carrier to be, on my sdr
[10:03] <mattbrejza> i wouldnt call 1MHz narrow (although there is a proper definition for narrowband)
[10:04] <eroomde> the chip rate is 1.023mhz
[10:04] <eroomde> you probably want your bpf wider than that
[10:04] <eroomde> DoYouKnow: how did you find this channel btw?
[10:04] <DoYouKnow> what's his name comes here
[10:05] <DoYouKnow> Super something
[10:05] <eroomde> superkuh?
[10:05] <DoYouKnow> yeah, and someone else
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[10:05] <DoYouKnow> I forget their nick
[10:05] <eroomde> wow
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[10:05] <eroomde> let's see if that's repeatable
[10:05] <eroomde> superkuh?
[10:05] <DoYouKnow> SpeedEvil
[10:05] <superkuh> Yes?
[10:05] <eroomde> nothing.
[10:06] <eroomde> was just testing a hypothesis
[10:06] <superkuh> Care to clue me in on it?
[10:06] <eroomde> 10:04:58 DoYouKnow what's his name comes here
[10:06] <eroomde> 10:05:01 DoYouKnow Super something
[10:06] <eroomde> 10:05:10 eroomde superkuh?
[10:08] <superkuh> Ah. I was holding down shift to enable safe mode in another program starting up but holding down shift while changing channels in xchat causes you to leave that channel.
[10:08] <eroomde> a coincidence for the history books
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[10:09] <superkuh> Thrilling, I know.
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[10:12] <tweetBot> @Aikidokajeff: @daveake #UKHAS is it meant to be Star Trek LCARS interface displaying Star Wars' Death Star? :-p
[10:29] <DoYouKnow> so these ADCs on the g7020-kt chipset are 5-bits
[10:29] <DoYouKnow> there are 2 of them, and they crosconnect with the higher correlator
[10:31] <DoYouKnow> so no ideas on how to get the IQ output out of this thing? the command it's sending for a single sample is:
[10:33] <DoYouKnow> http://i.imgur.com/IRtQzBV.png
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[10:33] <LeoBodnar> sup?
[10:34] <eroomde> DoYouKnow: ask that question again
[10:34] <eroomde> LeoBodnar can probably help you with some of your reverse engineering questions
[10:35] <DoYouKnow> how do I get the IQ output out of the g7020-kt chipset? The command it's sending to receive a single I, and a single Q, magnitude value is http://i.imgur.com/IRtQzBV.png
[10:35] <DoYouKnow> g7020-kt ublox7 gps]
[10:36] <LeoBodnar> are you sending UXB 0A 0B command?
[10:38] <DoYouKnow> what command is that, LeoBodnar ?
[10:39] <DoYouKnow> yeah, 0A 0B
[10:39] <DoYouKnow> I think that's it
[10:39] <LeoBodnar> let me check
[10:39] <DoYouKnow> it's the serial command + the usb overhead
[10:40] <DoYouKnow> in the png
[10:40] <LeoBodnar> it's UBX-MON-HW2
[10:41] <LeoBodnar> magnitude and value are not the same
[10:41] <LeoBodnar> it sends I/Q magnitude values
[10:41] <DoYouKnow> how do I get the value?
[10:42] <LeoBodnar> why do you want to?
[10:43] <DoYouKnow> I want to plot an FFT to check for interference, plot the signal strength, etc
[10:43] <RealBorg> DoYouKnow, which value do you want?
[10:43] <LeoBodnar> ublox already allows this through productuion testing features
[10:44] <LeoBodnar> FFT is done via production tests
[10:44] <RealBorg> i/q is value@t + value@t+1/2lambda
[10:44] <LeoBodnar> signal strength can be done via standard commands
[10:44] <DoYouKnow> how do I run the production tests?
[10:44] <LeoBodnar> there is a confusion here. ublox "magintude" means envelope, not momentary value of a sample
[10:45] <LeoBodnar> this is to check i/q gains and offsets
[10:45] <LeoBodnar> not to pluck a random sample off air
[10:46] <DoYouKnow> is this production test tool available freely online? can I get it without signing an NDA?
[10:47] <LeoBodnar> no
[10:47] <DoYouKnow> can you tell me what command it uses?
[10:47] <LeoBodnar> can you explain why do you want to do this?
[10:48] <DoYouKnow> I want to make a tool that makes a waterfall plot of the GPS
[10:48] <LeoBodnar> http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/files/U-center-spectrum.png
[10:48] <DoYouKnow> on the ublox-7
[10:49] <LeoBodnar> why do you want to do this?
[10:49] <LeoBodnar> waterfall on ublox will most of the time look like a random noise
[10:50] <LeoBodnar> mostly
[10:51] <DoYouKnow> what property is it under?
[10:54] <LeoBodnar> view / docking windows / spectrum analyzer
[10:55] <LeoBodnar> ^analyzer^analyser
[10:57] <DoYouKnow> I don't see it there
[10:57] <LeoBodnar> there are 7 very powerful sat signals on that top plot. can you see them?
[10:57] <DoYouKnow> I have version 8.18, was it removed?
[10:58] <DoYouKnow> no, I don't see them
[10:58] <DoYouKnow> but I would probably if I dumped the data to a file and plotted an fft in python :)
[10:59] <LeoBodnar> you'd get the same picture but slower
[11:00] <LeoBodnar> this is IF FFT so each signal is 2MHz wide
[11:00] <fsphil> I've never seen a gps signal on the waterfall anytime I've looked
[11:00] <LeoBodnar> and below noise
[11:01] <eroomde> you sort of can
[11:01] <eroomde> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk971PWYpTk
[11:02] <eroomde> this wasn't but that's not really an fft
[11:02] <LeoBodnar> DoYouKnow you are trying to do something either very simple of very complex - I can't figure out which
[11:02] <eroomde> it was me throwing a maths book at the problem
[11:03] <DoYouKnow> LeoBodnar: I'm interested in working with the raw samples. I want to know that part of this device
[11:03] <LeoBodnar> so you just need raw samples?
[11:03] <DoYouKnow> yeah
[11:04] <DoYouKnow> I like to bring it with me to school, and its not a radio if I can't receive raw samples :)
[11:05] <DoYouKnow> it's very portable, which I like
[11:05] <fsphil> do you have an rtlsdr receiver?
[11:05] <LeoBodnar> it is not designed to output raw samples
[11:05] <eroomde> i get it now
[11:05] <eroomde> you want to bring a sattelite clock to school
[11:05] <LeoBodnar> because its interfaces are too slow
[11:05] <DoYouKnow> LeoBodnar: tell me how you got that fft display
[11:05] <eroomde> gotta get your adrenalin rush somehow, i guess
[11:05] <DoYouKnow> LeoBodnar: I don't have to get every sample
[11:05] <DoYouKnow> just want some
[11:06] <LeoBodnar> so would samples taken by other receiver be OK?
[11:06] <DoYouKnow> yes
[11:06] <fsphil> you won't have a very good fft if you only have every other random sample
[11:06] <DoYouKnow> lol, fsphil
[11:06] <LeoBodnar> ok that's easy
[11:07] <DoYouKnow> is that what you're using to get that fft you posted LeoBodnar ?
[11:08] <RealBorg> if you want to get a cheap start with sdr digital radio - get a rtlsdr receiver
[11:09] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[11:10] <LeoBodnar> would that do? http://www.jks.com/gps/gps.html
[11:13] <DoYouKnow> ah, I thought you meant you would capture the serial commands spectrum view with a different receiver
[11:13] <DoYouKnow> nevermind
[11:14] <DoYouKnow> I'm committed to this ublox7
[11:14] <DoYouKnow> I have other sdrs, etc
[11:14] <DoYouKnow> but nothing compares for gps
[11:14] <eroomde> well in as much as they're different things that you can't compare, yes
[11:14] <DoYouKnow> I don't want anyone to get in trouble for breaking the NDA either
[11:15] <eroomde> and we think in this case it's probably a different thing that you want
[11:15] <LeoBodnar> i'm afraid you are wasting your time with ublox7 but if you are having fun it does not matter
[11:15] <DoYouKnow> wasting my time?
[11:15] <DoYouKnow> why's that?
[11:15] <DoYouKnow> I just want the same spectrum view you posted from the OEM tests
[11:15] <fsphil> from what I've read the sdr is ideal
[11:15] <LeoBodnar> because ublox7 is designed to give you NMEA message with coordinates
[11:16] <LeoBodnar> it does it very well
[11:16] <LeoBodnar> it is not designed for prodcuing waterfalls of FFTs of off-air data
[11:17] <LeoBodnar> you have Cortex-M3 running within few microns of the ADC
[11:17] <LeoBodnar> you also have SMPS few microns of the ADC
[11:18] <LeoBodnar> +spelling
[11:20] <LeoBodnar> bascially you want a frontend, ADC and a fast interface to PC
[11:20] <DoYouKnow> how do I add a galileo or a GPS PRN?
[11:20] <DoYouKnow> if I want to search for unknown PRNs using undocumented usage, can I do this with the ublox?
[11:21] <Laurenceb> hi Leo
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> yo
[11:21] <fsphil> the PRN is pretty large
[11:22] <LeoBodnar> for galileo you need to create GNSS definition
[11:22] <Laurenceb> DoYouKnow: if you are serious about this, I did do a lot of work on the topic
[11:22] <LeoBodnar> and PRNs are hardcoded into GNSS definitions
[11:22] <Laurenceb> but this is _serious_ work
[11:23] <DoYouKnow> can the ublox do something like this?
[11:23] <DoYouKnow> or is that part of the firmware/filesystem scrambled?
[11:23] <LeoBodnar> it would need firmware modification
[11:23] <DoYouKnow> oh
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> i believe galileo is in one of ublox8 updates
[11:24] <mattbrejza> so does the ublox search for satellites which may have not been launched yet?
[11:25] <LeoBodnar> not really
[11:27] <DoYouKnow> I noticed that a lot of the firmware for the ublox7 shows repeated vertical lines that are slightly blurry in the baudline bit view
[11:27] <DoYouKnow> almost like it's been packed
[11:27] <DoYouKnow> any idea how its packed?
[11:30] <LeoBodnar> no idea what you mean
[11:30] <DoYouKnow> it looked like it's XOR-encrypted
[11:30] <DoYouKnow> or something
[11:30] <LeoBodnar> what is?
[11:30] <DoYouKnow> the firmware
[11:30] <DoYouKnow> part of it
[11:31] <DoYouKnow> for ublox7
[11:31] <LeoBodnar> probably
[11:31] <LeoBodnar> what firmware?
[11:31] <LeoBodnar> G7020 itself is OTP
[11:31] <LeoBodnar> or even masked ROM idk
[11:31] <DoYouKnow> FW100_EXT_G70.3069adf7509988c309850afa09da1458.bin
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[11:32] <LeoBodnar> it's for external flash products
[11:33] <DoYouKnow> ok
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[11:33] <DoYouKnow> I don't have that
[11:33] <DoYouKnow> I don't think there is a firmware for my device
[11:33] <LeoBodnar> so you can't modify firmware if you don't have flash ublox
[11:34] <LeoBodnar> it was a statement
[11:34] <DoYouKnow> ok
[11:36] <LeoBodnar> it would be very unproductive to spend your time on attempting to use ublox as a live sampler
[11:37] <LeoBodnar> you seem to be primed for some quality time with SDR though
[11:38] <Laurenceb> heh
[11:38] <LeoBodnar> instead of wrestling in mud with ublox7
[11:38] <Laurenceb> tbh I'm not sure what you are trying to do and why DoYouKnow
[11:39] <LeoBodnar> i suggest get a cheap SDR, sample GPS band, try find satellites and pseudoranges and take it from there
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[11:40] <DoYouKnow> MON-SIG, MON-SIG2, MON-SIG3
[11:40] <DoYouKnow> what is the difference between these^?
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[11:42] <LeoBodnar> what are their UBX IDs?
[11:44] <chris_99> http://gnss-sdr.org/node/50 looks really interesting, looks like they replaced the oscillator and use an active antenna
[11:47] <eroomde> yes the rtl-sdr local oscillator is hsit
[11:47] <eroomde> however you can still track with a decent software receiver
[11:48] <eroomde> but you'll get noisier positions than is necessary
[11:48] <chris_99> gotcha
[11:49] <chris_99> just looking on wikipedia, i didn't realise there were two levels of accuracy provided by GPS still, it says theres an encrypted signal that gives 1cm accuracy?
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[11:51] <LeoBodnar> which helps in getting 1cm accuracy
[11:54] LeoBodnar (6d999aef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.153.154.239) left irc:
[11:54] <tweetBot> @daveake: Low altitude ballooning at PYCON #ukhas #skycademy http://t.co/weiFT5YeeV
[11:56] <eroomde> chris_99: yes, for the military
[11:57] <eroomde> infact the picture is more complicated than that nowadays
[11:57] <chris_99> pity, that would be fun to play with
[11:59] <chris_99> it sounds like you may be able to buy access to it if i'm reading wiki correctly
[12:01] <eroomde> you can get that accuracy other ways
[12:01] <chris_99> using fixed point transmitters on earth?
[12:03] <Vaizki> my boat has Differential GPS which uses fixed ground stations and it's pretty damn accurate. not down to 1cm
[12:03] <Vaizki> but maybe 20cm or so
[12:03] <chris_99> cool
[12:04] <tweetBot> @fth_nix: Another reason to wish I was there!!! https://t.co/Xroye5e25A
[12:06] <eroomde> look at the l2 signal chris_99
[12:07] <Vaizki> not sure what is the real life accuracy boost offered by WAAS & EGNOS but it seems to be good enough that DGPS is really only used by commercial vessels, agriculture etc
[12:08] <Vaizki> hmm wikipedia says <2m accuracy via EGNOS augmentation
[12:10] <chris_99> aha hadn't heard of that eroomde
[12:11] <chris_99> interesting Vaizki, i hadn't thought of agriculture type applications
[12:13] <Vaizki> yea they for example make autopilots for combine harvesters, crop dusting dispensing solutions (just fly over the area enough and it will spray as needed for even coverage) etc
[12:13] <chris_99> neat
[12:14] <Vaizki> but the best solutions there rely on RTK as well
[12:15] <Vaizki> so basically you nail down local "base stations" and then do pure L1/L2 processing find positions with 1cm accuracy
[12:15] <Vaizki> they are not very cheap though :)
[12:15] <Vaizki> for example http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trimble-FM-1000-FMX100-Integrated-Display-Precision-GPS-/271512507960
[12:18] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> there are ways to get extreme accuracy using cheap stuff
[12:19] <Vaizki> yes you can run rtklib on raspi2 for example and some gps:s that give access to the raw data streams
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2010-September/063230.html
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> ah
[12:22] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[12:22] <chris_99> haha a bit pricey
[12:23] <chris_99> is the one you linked to using DGPS then
[12:24] <chris_99> oh that's cool SpeedEvil
[12:24] <Vaizki> well looks like it isn't listed.. maybe because DGPS is only on the coastline in the US
[12:25] <Vaizki> hmm ok not any more http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/images/Plots/US_NDGPS_Coverage_APR29_Lg.jpg
[12:26] <Vaizki> anyway, if you are working your own farms, you can just set up RTK and be done with it
[12:28] <Vaizki> ah.. and the US Coast Guard is planning on shutting down all of those inland sites
[12:29] <chris_99> oh, weird
[12:29] <Vaizki> so it will be back to the coasts only
[12:29] <Vaizki> http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/images/dgps/FRNDGPS.jpg
[12:29] <Vaizki> red ones are to be decomissioned
[12:30] <Vaizki> with SBAS giving 1-2 meter accuracy, ships only "need" DGPS near ports
[12:31] <Vaizki> looks like the situation is the same in europe http://www.effective-solutions.co.uk/beacons.gif
[12:31] <chris_99> mmm
[12:32] <Vaizki> I wonder what the Italians and Greeks have against DGPS :)
[12:32] <chris_99> heh
[12:35] <Vaizki> and even I wouldn't have a DGPS but the boat was formerly owned by a fisherman who upgraded the nav system in his trawler and moved the old one to the private boat
[12:35] <Vaizki> so I have an ancient but high end chart plotter system with DGPS now
[12:35] <chris_99> does GPS work well out in storms out of interest
[12:39] <Laurenceb> http://imgur.com/1b5GEXX
[12:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-54 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-54
[12:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VK3YT-11 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK3YT-11
[12:40] <chris_99> haha
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[13:15] <eroomde> Upu: it's not about the noise, it's about the SNR
[13:18] <prog> nah, it's about the SFDPNR
[13:22] <eroomde> you'll have to help me out with the acronym
[13:23] ntx2 (50543825@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.84.56.37) joined #highaltitude.
[13:24] <ntx2> Hi - if the burst calculator gives required volume as 2.55 metre cube, that is the min amount of Helium I need, correct?
[13:24] <eroomde> yes
[13:24] <eroomde> also the max
[13:27] <ntx2> sure...
[13:27] <ntx2> thanks
[13:29] <eroomde> easiert to think about it in terms of required neck lify
[13:29] <eroomde> lift*
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[14:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03yl3gbc_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=yl3gbc_chase
[14:53] <RealBorg> ntx2, did you really mean to say "Helium I"?
[14:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ER1TUM/AM - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ER1TUM%2FAM
[14:54] <Sirius-BE> Helium I need ... check your line wrapping ;-)
[14:54] <fsphil> hehe
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[15:33] <Lunar_Lander> hello, a nice weekend to everyone :)
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[15:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MASAM_01 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MASAM_01
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[16:31] <Sirius-BE> any recommendations about electronic CAD? KiCAD, Eagle?
[16:36] <Vaizki> Eagle is ok for light use
[16:37] <Sirius-BE> I am not professional :-)
[16:37] <Vaizki> Kicad has been a complete pain due to release "cycle" ie no releases just random builds
[16:38] <prog> the Eagle is good enough.
[16:38] <Sirius-BE> Target 3001?
[16:38] <russss> I gave up with kicad, every time I update the mac build there's something else broken
[16:38] <russss> hopefully it improves
[16:38] <Vaizki> Eagle has its bad sides and quirks but also lots of tutorials etc on the net
[16:38] <prog> airspy is made with kicad, but it's a PITA
[16:40] <Sirius-BE> tnx
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[17:44] <adamgreig> kicad <3
[17:44] <adamgreig> it's now on a stable release cycle with 4.0 rc1
[17:44] <adamgreig> just been a lot of work on it recently
[17:45] <russss> not on the mac it ain't
[17:45] <kc2pit> I've been pretty happy with DipTrace. It's decently documented and its learning curve is only moderately annoying. I don't have much basis for comparison, though, as my only exposure to other software was an hour-long "what the shit" session with Eagle.
[17:46] <russss> diptrace looks cool, however I'd like to be able to use kicad as it's free
[18:00] <Lunar_Lander> kicad on linux works OK
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[18:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-N1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-N1
[18:21] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RPF-N2 after 037 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-N2
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[19:04] <mclane_> hi
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> hi
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[19:21] <SM0ULC> julianoliver: welcome :)
[19:21] <SM0ULC> julianoliver = https://criticalengineering.org/projects/deep-sweep/
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[19:23] <julianoliver> cheers! if only i'd known this channel existed earlier..
[19:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K4UAH-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K4UAH-12
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> so you recorded radio signals?
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[19:32] <mclane_> julianoliver: I wonder how you got gps reception in a nearly perfect Faraday cage?
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[19:35] <julianoliver> mclane_: we had a little SMS tracker in a tupperware box, insulated with styrofoam and attached between the parachute and balloon. another was inside the hull and suffered battery freeze. the GPS module on the arduino did actually get a reading somehow, even through the metallic paint on the shell and matched that of the external tracker
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[19:37] <mclane_> did you consider tracking your balloon with an rf tracker like many people do here in this community?
[19:38] <mclane_> (maybe for your next flight)
[19:38] <julianoliver> Lunar_Lander: yes, a first test with 3 RTLSDR 820Ts with different antennae (up/down converters). we're going to do many more, with a sweep->discover->dwell (like a scanner) logic to the capture routines.
[19:38] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[19:39] <julianoliver> mclane_: we did but we're utter newbies and in fact it was SM0ULC who just put me onto one that i've about to buy. looks super. 430MHz Ham: http://www.hamshop.cz/hab-a-aprs-c34/picotracker-v-3-1-stavebnice-i258/
[19:39] <julianoliver> s/i\'ve/i\'m/
[19:43] <mclane_> yea - looks good. I have something similar: http://www.pirnay.com/index.php/de/home/m-blog/231-25-05-2015-update-neue-tracker
[19:43] <julianoliver> after the experience of waiting overnight, thinking our probe was lost, only to get coords back from it 1000km (800km more than all predictions) away, in Belarus, we don't want to SMS-GPS track any more.
[19:44] <adamgreig> haha
[19:44] <adamgreig> wow
[19:44] gb73d (~gb73d@81-178-185-5.dsl.pipex.com) left irc:
[19:44] <adamgreig> what balloon was that?
[19:44] <adamgreig> 1000km drift is extreme if unplanned
[19:44] <julianoliver> adamgreig: it was a horrible experience, to be honest. you can't just drive to Belarus - under a regime.
[19:44] <adamgreig> I'm well aware
[19:44] <adamgreig> got a belarus visa once
[19:45] <adamgreig> don't plan to again
[19:45] <mclane_> maybe floater? over the night?
[19:45] <julianoliver> two people from Minsk helped us out and were a bit nervous we were state spies, at first.
[19:46] <julianoliver> mclane_: we wondered that but it did burst. we now think it hit high altitude winds of some sort as there was a lot of easterly push that whole week from central and northern Germany
[19:46] <julianoliver> it rose up through thick clouds (as i say, newbies) and so was probably also soaked. would've slowed the ascent.
[19:47] <julianoliver> was a 600g Pawan, 3.71 cubic m of gas
[19:47] <SM0ULC> julianoliver: we look forward to help you track next time :)
[19:48] <julianoliver> would be great ;-)
[19:48] <mclane_> floaters boften burst in the morning, when the uv radiation from the rising sun starts to weaken the rubber
[19:48] <mclane_> send it to the south, then we will track ;-)
[19:48] <julianoliver> mclane_: hah! never occurred to us. you see that's the kind of knowledge we need.
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[19:50] <mclane_> The Pawans seem to be surprisingly good, we recently had a 100g Pawan rising up to > 30 km
[19:50] <julianoliver> 100g!
[19:50] <mclane_> when we expected burst at 15-18 km
[19:51] <julianoliver> i reckon.. so would i/we
[19:51] <mclane_> yea, our payload was 25g only
[19:51] <mclane_> and we underfilled a little, so ascent rate was 1.5 m/s only
[19:51] <julianoliver> right.
[19:52] <julianoliver> friends have come over - i have to run off and do Friday night things. i'll be lurking a lot here the next while.
[19:52] <julianoliver> great to find this channel. again, of only we had found it earlier..
[19:52] <julianoliver> s/of/if/
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[19:59] <day> is it not possible to disable the Ublox neo6 GPRMC string? I can easily disable all the others
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[20:02] <daveake> yes
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[20:34] <daveake> internetminimus
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[20:43] <day> daveake: ah. i wasnt iterating that far through the command array >.>
[20:48] <DoYouKnow> There appears to be 4 different bandwidths that can be digitized by the ADC on the ublox... 24 MHz input, 8MHz Pre-PGA, 8MHz Post-PGA, and 2 MHz Post-PGA
[20:49] <DoYouKnow> LeoBodnar designed this
[20:49] <DoYouKnow> he claims anyway
[20:49] <DoYouKnow> the ability to process all the IF data
[20:49] <DoYouKnow> I looked at the UBX.dll file
[20:49] <DoYouKnow> where the ability to read this kind of data is
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[21:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WGes_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WGes_chase
[21:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-A1_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-A1_chase
[21:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-A2_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-A2_chase
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[21:58] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68A_Azsqqg4 - anthropogenic cloud.
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[00:00] --- Sat Sep 19 2015