highaltitude.log.20150909

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[07:06] <Vaizki> whee Tsunami has finally arrived, thanks nickjohnson
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[07:47] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SR0FLY after 035 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SR0FLY
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[08:31] <SP2SGF> hi guys. Can you approve my flights SR0FLY (CP34) for the following Saturday (12/09/2015). Thanks a lot.
[08:32] <chimpusmaximus> Try the Habhub channel as thats normal used for approval.
[08:34] <SP2SGF> join #habhub
[08:36] <eroomde> add a leading /
[08:37] <nickjohnson> Vaizki: Hooray
[08:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03read me_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=read%20me_chase
[08:38] <SP2SGF> join /habhub
[08:38] <Vaizki> nickjohnson, packaging was not the best though, can't see any damage but the packaging was pretty well crushed inside the pouch
[08:39] <SP2SGF> join/#habhub
[08:39] <nickjohnson> Vaizki: :/
[08:39] <daveake> You want /join #habhub
[08:39] <nickjohnson> It does seem I underestimated how roughly stuff's treated in the mail
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[08:39] <SP2SGF> thanks ;-)
[08:39] <Vaizki> and I need to clip a lot of leads from the underside before it will go in the enclosure (already sanded off the depaneling burrs)
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[09:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALYOLO - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALYOLO
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[09:20] <infaddict> is BALYOLO the payload with the (c) eroomde chute?
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[09:21] <FuzzyLemon> Hello! I'm aiming for a 12.30 launch today
[09:21] <infaddict> hi FuzzyLemon
[09:21] <infaddict> is this the BALYOLO flight?
[09:21] <eroomde> i believe it is
[09:22] <eroomde> what's the predicted path FuzzyLemon?
[09:23] <FuzzyLemon> drifting NW. only landing about 20miles away
[09:24] <FuzzyLemon> assuming my parachute doesn't glide
[09:24] <eroomde> if it does it's definitely because of construction issues
[09:24] <eroomde> my PR team will be in touch to manage the situation
[09:25] <FuzzyLemon> awesome
[09:26] <eroomde> got a photo?
[09:26] <eroomde> am sure lots of people here would want to see
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[09:28] <FuzzyLemon> hold on a sec
[09:38] <FuzzyLemon> https://www.flickr.com/photos/133129348@N06/21275302431/in/dateposted-public/
[09:39] <fsphil> an approved colour
[09:39] <eroomde> that's a really nice job!
[09:39] <eroomde> awesome
[09:40] <FuzzyLemon> i'm a bit worried about it helicoptering. wasnt sure what to make the restraining things out of
[09:41] <eroomde> that arrangement looks good
[09:41] <eroomde> are they sized such that it's constrained to be basically hemispherical?
[09:41] <FuzzyLemon> yep
[09:42] <FuzzyLemon> made of polyester webbing
[09:42] <eroomde> cool
[09:42] <eroomde> well i don't think you can do better than that
[09:42] <eroomde> some designs in the 50s used a band of nylon instead of webbing but the gain seemed to be pretty marginal
[09:43] <eroomde> anyway, this is all v cool, am excited to see how it performs
[09:45] <FuzzyLemon> same here! we'll be launching from over at b-site
[09:45] <eroomde> i'll probably be up a forklift
[09:45] <eroomde> can you see our new tent from there?
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> FuzzyLemon: good luck
[09:46] <FuzzyLemon> whats the new tent for?
[09:46] <eroomde> storage
[09:46] <eroomde> need more space
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[10:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> FuzzyLemon, Is the launch site still Wescott Bramley House ?
[10:04] <FuzzyLemon> westcott venture park in buckinghamshire
[10:04] <eroomde> b-site is one of the old / current test sites at westcott
[10:04] <eroomde> when it was the rocket propulsion establishment (now a venture park)
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[10:05] <eroomde> i'm on j-site, for example
[10:05] <eroomde> the naming system was not especially imaginative
[10:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> Just looking on the map for the launch co-ords and it was nehind the bramley house site by the looks of it
[10:06] <eroomde> it's correct on habhub
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[10:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> right just looks a bit like a resedential area
[10:06] <eroomde> though the sat image is out of date
[10:07] <eroomde> definitely not residential!
[10:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> yup thats what Im looking at
[10:07] <eroomde> it's in the middle of an airfield
[10:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah not in that case thats what suprised me um cut and paste again I think
[10:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah thats more like it
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[10:35] <infaddict> Nice job FuzzyLemon. Did you source materials online or already have them? Would like to make one myself.
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[11:13] <FuzzyLemon> Thanks guys! I'm filling the balloon now
[11:14] <chimpusmaximus> Good Luck
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[11:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Watching and waiting ;-)
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[11:20] <infaddict> Good luck!
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[11:28] <Herman-PB0AHX> !flights
[11:28] <SpacenearUS> 03Herman-PB0AHX: Current flights: 03BALYOLO 10(d450)
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[11:43] <HB9RSU> anyone ever wrote a gateway for SPOT to habhub?
[11:43] <eroomde> natrium perhaps
[11:44] <SpeedEvil> I vaguely remember someon edoing so for one flight - I don't know how manual it was
[11:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> just noticed that BALYOLO stopped updating 25 minutes ago ??
[11:45] <eroomde> yeah i'm about to go and get lunch
[11:45] <eroomde> as cannot put it off any longer
[11:46] <daveake> I did one for Rockblock --> habitat, ages ago
[11:48] <FuzzyLemon> sorry half the waterfall moved off the screen
[11:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah, wondered if something had gone wrong!
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[11:49] <FuzzyLemon> how do i shift it across
[11:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> retune the receiver
[11:49] <UpuWork> retune the radio
[11:50] <FuzzyLemon> thanks
[11:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> back again, how's it going ?
[11:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah launch ?
[11:51] <infaddict> BALYOLO is up!
[11:52] <infaddict> or maybe not
[11:52] <daveake> ?
[11:52] <daveake> Was gonna say
[11:52] <infaddict> excuse my premature excitement. it appeared to move ;-)
[11:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nope not at this time
[11:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> prediction has changed a bit as well
[11:56] <FuzzyLemon> it's up
[11:57] <daveake> yup
[11:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> sure is
[11:58] <FuzzyLemon> i hope the parachute works as intended
[11:59] <FuzzyLemon> it's a 200g balloon so it won't go very high
[11:59] <infaddict> lets try and capture landing prediction at burst time
[11:59] <infaddict> then compare to actual
[12:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Can see it on SUWS
[12:05] <mattbrejza> lets hope its a clean burst too, otherwise thatll screw the predictor
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[12:08] <eroomde> what's the mass of payload+balloon FuzzyLemon?
[12:08] <eroomde> sigh
[12:10] <UpuWork> 750g she said
[12:10] <mattbrejza> is there an estimated descent rate?
[12:10] <SM0ULC> forcefeed a real client on new users? :)
[12:13] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[12:14] <Andrew_M0NRD> cracking signal, very clean and stable here
[12:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> rather weak at SUWS and here on the coast ??
[12:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> says that and gets a decode on SUWS!
[12:18] <eroomde> 750g inc chute?
[12:18] <Andrew_M0NRD> 24dB s/n - X50 whitestick on 6m pole at 18m asl into Yaesu FT857
[12:20] <gonzo_> just had a listen, but it's already too low for my horison
[12:20] <Herman-PB0AHX> !flights
[12:20] <SpacenearUS> 03Herman-PB0AHX: Current flights: 03BALYOLO 10(d450)
[12:20] <Herman-PB0AHX> !dial d450
[12:20] <SpacenearUS> 03Herman-PB0AHX: Latest dials for 03BALYOLO 3 10(d450): 03434.50071 MHz, 434.501183 MHz, 434.50079 MHz, 7.045918 MHz
[12:21] <gonzo_> Ah, no. It's on it's way up
[12:22] <eroomde> so i make that 5.2m/s sea level landing speed if the system mass if 750g
[12:25] <gonzo_> that would give you a bit of a headache
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[12:59] <eroomde> laning on chipping norton
[12:59] <eroomde> not like there's anyone to upset there
[12:59] <infaddict> hehe
[13:00] <infaddict> or the A44
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[13:01] <daveake> Yeah try not to land here http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/jeremy-clarksons-house/view/bing/
[13:01] <eroomde> the burst cal reckons about 18-19km burst at that ascent rate with 750g under a 200g hoywee
[13:01] <eroomde> calc*
[13:01] <daveake> Unless that 750g includes lunch ...
[13:01] <eroomde> lunch?
[13:01] <daveake> for Clarkson
[13:02] <daveake> He gets angry if he's not fed
[13:02] <eroomde> i don't get it
[13:02] <eroomde> oh right
[13:02] <daveake> Clarkson lives in Chipping Norton
[13:02] <eroomde> yes i know that
[13:02] <eroomde> i just didn't think his hunger could affect the howyee
[13:02] <UpuWork> FuzzyLemon you get bonus hab points for landing on Jeremy Clarksons house
[13:02] <UpuWork> you are in the next field at the moment
[13:03] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:03] <UpuWork> http://i.imgur.com/zCp8Vc8.jpg
[13:04] <eroomde> is that his house?
[13:04] <UpuWork> yes
[13:04] <UpuWork> the big one
[13:04] <UpuWork> ofc
[13:05] <eroomde> guess the cars are garaged
[13:05] <eroomde> i'm sure there was a fuzzylugnuts once
[13:05] <eroomde> years ago
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[13:06] <daveake> http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs_highlighted/highaltitude.log.20090925.html
[13:06] <daveake> fuzzylugnuts
[13:06] <eroomde> zeusbot is being crap again
[13:06] <UpuWork> good memory Ed
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[13:08] <Herman-PB0AHX> yessssss green linus from BALYOLO
[13:09] <Herman-PB0AHX> yessssss green lines from BALYOLO
[13:10] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[13:13] <infaddict> slow burner this one. predicted landing at 17:30
[13:13] <eroomde> can someone try and note an exact lat/lon/alt/time of burst when it happens, please?
[13:13] <infaddict> yep i am trying to keep an eye (whilst pretending to work)
[13:13] <eroomde> and whack that into the predictor with a 5.2m/s descent rate and note the landing spot
[13:13] <eroomde> yeah i ask as i might have to be outside when it bursts
[13:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> It will be logged on Habitat whatever
[13:14] <mattbrejza> the predictor doesnt let you predict for times before present though
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[13:15] <Herman-PB0AHX> a lot of qrm on this frequentie here
[13:15] <Herman-PB0AHX> ;-
[13:15] <Herman-PB0AHX> :-((
[13:16] <eroomde> sure so run the prediction the second you can for 'right now'
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[13:20] <chimpusmaximus> I would never have guessed how much pain trying to save 12g might have caused me.. flexible proto board....
[13:22] <chimpusmaximus> Someone evil came up with them
[13:22] <eroomde> what about them is causing you grief?
[13:23] <chimpusmaximus> my poor soldering....
[13:23] <chimpusmaximus> poor planning as well.
[13:23] <eroomde> pppppp
[13:23] <chimpusmaximus> a 30 minute quick i'll drop work and get a little project done just turned into nearly 2 hrs waste.. All fine on a solid proto board..
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[13:25] <chimpusmaximus> Was a nice to have as 12g was 20% of weight.
[13:25] <eroomde> are you using a stencil?
[13:26] <chimpusmaximus> Nah this was just a small flexible proto board from adafruit. saw it and thought it would save me a load of weight.
[13:26] <eroomde> the balloon seems to be ignoring the prediction
[13:27] <chimpusmaximus> http://www.adafruit.com/products/1518
[13:28] <eroomde> this seems like the wrong answer to the question
[13:28] <eroomde> big time
[13:28] <eroomde> design a small pcb if you care about mass
[13:29] <Laurenceb> you might be able to shave milligrams off with a small custom flexi
[13:29] <Laurenceb> but thats miles away from what was linked
[13:31] <chimpusmaximus> I understand what your point, i was just replicating what i had on breadboard and thought i could save some weight.
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[13:36] <eroomde> the predictor on habhub seems to be having no chance
[13:36] <eroomde> the live one, i mean
[13:38] <infaddict> yep agreed eroomde
[13:38] <infaddict> wonder why
[13:39] <daveake> burst
[13:39] <daveake> 51.90755,-1.4288,14322m
[13:40] <eroomde> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=67ad1c470cfb6700452a365437b227d3a79c8d54
[13:41] <eroomde> but the predictor looks like it might have dodgy data, of all days
[13:41] <infaddict> so nr Salford
[13:41] <eroomde> yeah
[13:42] <eroomde> also if it's not a clean cut from the balloon, who knows
[13:42] <UpuWork> hope they have an up facing camera
[13:43] <mattbrejza> we could always use wind data gathered from the ascent to use to predict the descent?
[13:43] <infaddict> i think that landing spot is a private forest
[13:44] <gonzo_> is the data from amateur flights not of any use to the met office? Even in a small way?
[13:44] <eroomde> i hope they have a local Rx
[13:44] <eroomde> gonzo_: i have wondered that
[13:44] <gonzo_> suppose, too many variables
[13:44] <eroomde> i've always though it probably would be
[13:44] <eroomde> i dunno
[13:44] <eroomde> you just need a wind vector at a given position/time, i'd have thought, to be useful
[13:45] <infaddict> Rushy Bottom
[13:45] <infaddict> ;-/
[13:45] <eroomde> i like that the landing spot is near 'great rollright' and 'little rollright'
[13:45] <eroomde> i wonder if there were especially large aerials put there during the very early days of aviation
[13:45] <infaddict> yep that was my launch site!
[13:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03yolochase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=yolochase
[13:45] <gonzo_> they would prob need some cal on the balloon sizes, againbst alt and chute, to be able to interpret the vectors
[13:46] <eroomde> just down the road from cumulo granitus
[13:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah you got it! Got caught by XYL to help in kitchen :(
[13:46] <eroomde> yep got it
[13:46] <eroomde> see link above
[13:46] <eroomde> we reckon *just* north of salford
[13:47] <eroomde> although that assume 0 sea level
[13:47] <eroomde> and it's a bit hillier there i believe
[13:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Just plugged it into GE
[13:47] <eroomde> so perhaps a bit further east along the flight path
[13:47] <eroomde> looks like it's about 175m there
[13:47] <eroomde> so perhaps elms farm?
[13:48] <infaddict> yep thats a fair guess i think
[13:48] <eroomde> but we have observed the balloon was doing stuff that was really like the prediction
[13:48] <eroomde> wondering if something has gone a bit skewiff
[13:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/BALYOLO_20150909/BALYOLO_20150909_predict_landing_from_burst.jpg
[13:49] <eroomde> nice
[13:49] <eroomde> thanks Geoff-G8DHE
[13:49] <eroomde> ok we're game on
[13:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KZN-HAB1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KZN-HAB1
[13:50] <Laurenceb> heading for Clarkson
[13:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> plenty of nice fields if no crops in them ;-)
[13:51] <daveake> Yeah we need a "current crop and height" overlay :)
[13:51] <eroomde> hmm it's coming down marginally faster than 5.2 equiv sea level by my calcs
[13:51] <daveake> With the payload steering away from maize
[13:51] <eroomde> that could be because of:
[13:51] <Laurenceb> aliens
[13:51] <eroomde> 1) the phase lag in the low pass filter on habhub
[13:51] <eroomde> 2) i took 750s as the total system mass whereas it might just be the payload mass rather than payload+chute
[13:51] <eroomde> 3) other stuff
[13:52] <eroomde> 750g*
[13:52] <eroomde> 5.6m/s rather than 5.2
[13:52] <infaddict> yep i'd expected it to slow down
[13:52] <eroomde> oh sure it'll slow from where it is now, but my cal was to find equiv sea-level descent rate given the current descent rate
[13:53] <eroomde> my calc*
[13:53] <infaddict> right
[13:53] <eroomde> equiv_sl_v = current_v * sqrt(current_density / sl_density)
[13:53] <eroomde> sl = sea level
[13:54] <eroomde> but it's too early to make too many conclusion from that - the vertical speed indicator on habhub is not the most intelligent iirc
[13:54] <eroomde> it might even just be moving average or something
[13:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/BALYOLO_20150909/profile1.JPG
[13:57] <UpuWork> interesting their chase car is doing what mine did
[13:57] <UpuWork> misreporting position by 1km
[13:58] <eroomde> so hopefully we'll have data down to nice and low
[13:58] <eroomde> oh really?
[13:58] <eroomde> where are they then?
[13:58] <eroomde> they look nicely on a road to me
[13:58] <UpuWork> click path on their chase
[13:58] <UpuWork> note the massive blip
[13:58] <UpuWork> exactly what mine did
[13:58] <infaddict> unless they are doing serious offroading
[13:58] <eroomde> oh yeah
[13:58] <eroomde> oh well
[13:58] <eroomde> it's a van i believe
[13:58] <UpuWork> that needs looking at
[13:59] <eroomde> i ahven't been this excited about a flight for a long time
[13:59] <infaddict> so is current chase posn correct just the history path is wrong?
[13:59] <UpuWork> its your talk and maths in practice Ed
[13:59] <UpuWork> I suspect current is accurate as they are on a road
[13:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> which tracker are they using ? I thought most bput a _chase after callsign ?
[13:59] <UpuWork> previous position was in a field
[14:00] <infaddict> yolochase
[14:00] <UpuWork> I used the Habhub page but it was miles out Sony Z3
[14:00] <eroomde> yeah i know i said all this stuff confidently in my talk and used maths but i'm a consultant so that's what i do
[14:00] <UpuWork> I suspect my phone is faulty but given this performance I would like to know what phone they are running it on
[14:00] <eroomde> confidently present maths
[14:00] <eroomde> i'm still actually amazed when it works though
[14:01] <UpuWork> theory is all fine and useful but pudding and all that
[14:01] <UpuWork> she got the size right anyway
[14:01] <eroomde> yep, her dimensions were exactly right
[14:01] <eroomde> 116cm x 32cm
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[14:02] <UpuWork> I've designed a 18hz data logger as well eroomde
[14:03] <UpuWork> so we can get a "hires" path
[14:03] <UpuWork> with pressure as well
[14:03] <Laurenceb> Clarkson flyby
[14:03] <eroomde> UpuWork: awesome!
[14:03] <eroomde> 18hz cos that's what ublox 8 wacks out in gps-only mode?
[14:03] <UpuWork> yep
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[14:03] <Laurenceb> nice
[14:04] <Laurenceb> who needs an imu
[14:04] <infaddict> currently predicting 1km past Salford ;-(
[14:04] <eroomde> so to keep people updated, using the immediate post-burst prediction we reckoned a landing spot just north of salford, near alms farm
[14:04] <eroomde> and geoff grabbed that kml and made this:
[14:04] <eroomde> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/BALYOLO_20150909/BALYOLO_201
[14:04] <eroomde> 50909_predict_landing_from_burst.jpg
[14:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> yup all there adding flight profile as it goes
[14:04] <eroomde> sorry the url got split
[14:05] <infaddict> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/BALYOLO_20150909/BALYOLO_20150909_predict_landing_from_burst.jpg
[14:05] <eroomde> thanks infaddict
[14:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> sink rate flattening out a little now
[14:06] <mattbrejza> i wonder what update rate you could get to the ground with 300 baud (or lora) and binary packets with some sort of source compression
[14:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/BALYOLO_20150909/index.php?ind=6
[14:07] <daveake> mattbrejza You could send large lora packets with a starting position and series of deltas
[14:08] <eroomde> looks like a possible miss though
[14:09] <Laurenceb> pretty close
[14:09] <mattbrejza> yea that was my idea
[14:09] <mattbrejza> easy with msgpack
[14:09] <mattbrejza> just need to write the habitat parser...
[14:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> 800m higher and 500m south of prediction
[14:10] <infaddict> live prediction is 2km East of burst prediction
[14:10] <eroomde> loss of signal from astrotech
[14:10] <daveake> or get the receiver to save the positions as CSV and just upload the latest to habitat
[14:10] <eroomde> 2km west infaddict i think?
[14:10] <infaddict> sry West
[14:11] <infaddict> there is a big hill near Salford
[14:11] <infaddict> chase car need to get closer
[14:11] <Laurenceb> wind drops near the ground
[14:11] <daveake> though would be nice to gather centrally, from all receivers
[14:11] <Laurenceb> I bet its within 500m
[14:12] <mattbrejza> i think habitat needs msgpack support tbh, then you can do what you want without bodging it
[14:12] <eroomde> yeah it'll hopefully be close enough for jazz
[14:12] <eroomde> but i still want to know the spot
[14:13] <infaddict> no chase car signal for 15+ mins
[14:13] <eroomde> last balloon packet was received by them over 3 minutes ago
[14:14] <infaddict> yep
[14:14] <infaddict> their car position hasnt moved for longer tho
[14:14] <eroomde> FuzzyLemon_: let us know the resting coordinates
[14:15] <HB9RSU> I noticed that when we chased or SPL1. You have to restart the app (if you use that) every 15 min
[14:16] <mattbrejza> which app?
[14:17] <HB9RSU> habhub chasecar tracker android
[14:18] <infaddict> it could be the internet signal there is v poor. he might be tracking but not uploading.
[14:18] <UpuWork> she
[14:18] <infaddict> she, apologies
[14:19] <infaddict> eroomde is gonna explode when she reports finding it in Elms farm
[14:19] <mattbrejza> oh ok (not my one lol)
[14:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup a she http://www.europeanastrotech.com/_files/_uploads/DSC_2995b.jpg
[14:20] <eroomde> looks like it's going to be a bit south west of elms farm
[14:20] <eroomde> but just how far shall remain a mystery for the time being
[14:20] <infaddict> ah right didnt make connection. is this the lady who was at the 2015 conf?
[14:20] <eroomde> yes
[14:20] <infaddict> cool
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[14:22] <HB9RSU> what's yours matt?
[14:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/BALYOLO_20150909/BALYOLO_20150909_estimated_landing_0.5km_radius.jpg
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[14:27] <mattbrejza> HB9RSU: HAB tracker
[14:27] <mattbrejza> the one with the rtty deocder
[14:31] <eroomde> aha!
[14:31] <eroomde> new position!
[14:31] <infaddict> ooh!
[14:31] <eroomde> 51.94784, -1.59169
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[14:32] <infaddict> just over 1km away - not bad!
[14:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh in my guessestimate ring :)
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[14:33] <FuzzyLemon_> good job i brought my wellies
[14:33] <infaddict> haha - crops in the field?
[14:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/BALYOLO_20150909/index.php?ind=2
[14:35] <eroomde> so the actual landing spot vs what the predictor kml i have here says is about 850m
[14:35] <eroomde> close enough for jazz
[14:35] <infaddict> indeed thats pretty cool result
[14:37] <Laurenceb> nice
[14:37] <Laurenceb> prob mostly wind model error
[14:37] <Laurenceb> I think the predictor needs something to reduce the wind velocity near the surface
[14:38] <eroomde> yeah probably
[14:38] <eroomde> a boundaty layer model
[14:38] <eroomde> bbl
[14:39] <gonzo_> missed the landing
[14:39] <gonzo_> work does get in the way!
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[14:39] <gonzo_> looks like they have the bexs possible landing
[14:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> 0.96Km http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/BALYOLO_20150909/BALYOLO_20150909_landing%20_spot_error_0.96Km.jpg
[14:40] <gonzo_> access down the track, no power cables.
[14:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> That takes into account height variation as well
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[14:49] <infaddict> Well looks like we've bought a house in Hampshire ;-)
[14:49] <daveake> Moving for HAB? Nice :p
[14:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Sounds good!
[14:51] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[14:51] <infaddict> hehe yep - New Milton, close to border of Dorset
[14:52] <infaddict> Nice tall chimney stack and no hills too
[14:52] <infaddict> so should finally get an antenna installed
[14:52] <gonzo_> hehe, propper spec
[14:52] <gonzo_> it always confuses estate agents
[14:53] <daveake> They're only just catching up with people asking about internet speeds
[14:53] <infaddict> haha very true. didnt know what i was going on about when searching for the local cabinet looking for fibre
[14:54] <infaddict> what are the restrictions on mast/antenna height? can they be higher than my house and if so by how much?
[14:55] <infaddict> just thinking of a X50-A or similar but not sure how high I can mount it without a) it looking silly b) annoying neighbours c) being illegal
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[14:56] <adamgreig> loads of houses have tv antennas well above the height of the house
[14:56] <gonzo_> planning law is a bit vauge on antennas, unless there are specific local bylaws
[14:57] <gonzo_> carefiully assembled you could put an x50 on the end of a TV pole without anyone noticing, even us
[14:58] <gonzo_> I did once see a fake, non metallic TV antenna put on the end of a dual band collinear, so it just lokoked like the TV antenna itself
[14:58] <adamgreig> hah
[14:59] <infaddict> hehe
[14:59] <gonzo_> the groundplane elements on the x50 are so small they prob won't be noticed from the ground
[14:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> No planning permission on my aerials, just pole on its own for a month or so, then added aerials over time ;-) There above the roof line as well http://www.g8dhe.com/amateurradio/g8dhe/beams.jpg
[14:59] <gonzo_> and they mount nicley into the end of a std tv pole
[15:01] <adamgreig> nice Geoff-G8DHE
[15:01] <gonzo_> I got away with a scaff pole mast, when questioned I told the neigbours that it had been there for many years, but was hidden by the recently removed tree
[15:01] <gonzo_> which was true
[15:01] <gonzo_> the pole was installed long befopre required to start accrewing rights
[15:02] <adamgreig> hah
[15:02] <gonzo_> thinking about it, it went in a week after I moved in
[15:02] <gonzo_> so it's been there for almost 30yrs
[15:03] <gonzo_> 20
[15:03] <luteijn> (Dutch rules, will probably not apply but might be similar: http://www.pa2old.nl/fotos/news/antenneplaats.jpg )
[15:04] <luteijn> basically 5 meter's allowed without a permit here.
[15:04] <adamgreig> so just <=5m from the top of any surface?
[15:04] <adamgreig> that's nice
[15:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> Sensible
[15:05] <gonzo_> permitted development in uk limits you to thr ridge line. There were some special antenna laws, but I think they have died with the last permitted dev changes
[15:05] <adamgreig> the ridge line?
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[15:05] <luteijn> from the place where you 'cross' the roofline, so if putting it up halfway the roof, can'thave it stick out the full 5 meter over the top then.
[15:05] <gonzo_> but there are so many tv antennas, that it;s diffciult to do much about
[15:05] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[15:06] <infaddict> yep gonzo_ as you say vast majority of TV antennas break this ridge line rule
[15:06] <luteijn> anyway, this 5 m rule is for permanent cosntructions, it's a lot less clear if you have a nonpermanent setup.
[15:06] <gonzo_> it's a shame we don't have anmy band 3 tv, as they would mask whole rafts of AR antennas
[15:07] <infaddict> anyway house isnt even built yet so will get better idea of visual impacts in a few months
[15:08] <adamgreig> if you take it down overnight is it "temporary"? :p
[15:08] <gonzo_> make sure there are no local bylaws or covenants in the deeds
[15:08] <infaddict> sure will check that gonzo_ once I see the deeds
[15:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> No temporary relates to method of fixing, just mount it on a trailer and you can do what you like (almost ;)
[15:09] <infaddict> is there such a thing as a permanent mast (i.e. attached to building) but it extends up and down when you need it?
[15:09] <daveake> We're not allowed chickens or caravans
[15:09] <daveake> Aerials fine tho
[15:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> If its a new estate quite a lot have aerial bans.
[15:09] <infaddict> Geoff-G8DHE: its only 7 houses on spare land in existing residential area
[15:10] <gonzo_> a friend had a complaint (neigbours complained to council) about an ant that was on a scaff pile. Which jad just been propped against a shed for a few days. He was told that it could stay for 28days at a time. He asked what if he bolteded to to the old LR in the drive way. They said that it would then not be their concern
[15:10] <daveake> Our previous house had a covenant banning aerials visible from the road
[15:10] <infaddict> but its v close to new forest national park but not within it
[15:10] <daveake> Everyone ignored it
[15:10] <daveake> Except me
[15:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh that shouldn't be a problem, its usually the larger estates built by developers who council demand that they don't allow aerials.
[15:11] <mattbrejza> do you really need outside aerials for tv these days?
[15:11] <adamgreig> my house has coax sockets in the walls for tv+radio but no antenna that I can see at all
[15:11] <mattbrejza> ive had no issues iwth one inside pointing through several walls
[15:11] <adamgreig> don't really understand
[15:11] <adamgreig> might be built into the roof
[15:11] <infaddict> yer adamgreig my prev new house had all the cable routings but they expected you to put aerial in yourself
[15:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> unless you have cable then there must be an aerial somewhere!
[15:11] <mattbrejza> do the coax sockets have tv coming out of them?
[15:12] <daveake> I've always put TV aerials inside the loft
[15:12] <daveake> Never had a problem
[15:12] <mattbrejza> mind you my tv at home will pick up tv without anything plugged into the antenna port
[15:12] <infaddict> so all my cables route to a nice box in the loft where i would be expected to place an aerial. except i dont as i have Sky
[15:12] <gonzo_> I did once see (photocopy passed around a club) of a councol letter warning someone that they must remove the antennae from the house. Which he ignored. When planning people (with police ) came to enforce it, he pointed out that the plural of antenna is antennas. Antennae is for crawling things (like council officials)
[15:12] <daveake> lol in that case you might be able to run at least LED lighting from an aerial :)
[15:13] <adamgreig> gonzo_: hah, I bet they took that well
[15:13] <gonzo_> depending on your roof materials, you will be supprised how RF transparrent they can be
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[15:13] <gonzo_> adamgreig, yep, but it kept them wrapped up in paperwork for another 6mths
[15:14] <adamgreig> haha
[15:15] <gonzo_> have a read of 'How to beat Sir Humphry'. It was a R4 book at bedtime. All bout how to deal with officialdom
[15:15] <gonzo_> most ammusing
[15:16] <adamgreig> my housemate and I were amused to find the only special amendment to our otherwise really quite long tenancy agreement was "may not install any antennas or telecommunications kit externally"
[15:17] <adamgreig> thought they'd seen us coming a mile off but it turns out next door didn't understand where the house's BT socket was, so had BT knock a hole in the wall and put a new cable and socket in
[15:17] <adamgreig> in a brand new build...
[15:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> infaddict,Yes telescopic & tilt aerial as mine see here http://360.g8dhe.net/default.php?80820
[15:17] <gonzo_> modern roof trusses have lots of cross bracing. So can be a bit of a challenge to put rotating yagi's in.
[15:18] <mattbrejza> 'why did your roof fall in?' 'i removed some redundant beams so my antennas could rotate...'
[15:18] <gonzo_> adamgreig, does kit include plant. And externally must include underground
[15:18] <bobsaget> hello, does anyone here know of a script that will check aprs site and email if my balloon shows up again?
[15:19] <gonzo_> old houses hand huge timbers
[15:19] <gonzo_> have
[15:19] <adamgreig> to be fair the phone setup is insane
[15:19] <adamgreig> it's a set of 4 flats and two houses all somewhat terraced down the road
[15:19] <adamgreig> and there's a basement under the flats at one end of the street
[15:19] <adamgreig> and the BT phone lines terminate there
[15:20] <adamgreig> and a patch panel
[15:20] <adamgreig> CAT6 to the flats and houses
[15:20] <adamgreig> despite the houses being private rental
[15:20] <adamgreig> so you can't actually access the BT socket from inside the house, you have to get the key to the basement from the landlord and wlak down the street and through a hidden little door etc
[15:20] <adamgreig> took us quite a while to figure it out too
[15:21] <mattbrejza> can you plug in a adsl modem to the end of the cat6 in your house?
[15:21] <adamgreig> no
[15:21] <adamgreig> ?
[15:21] <adamgreig> the cat6 just runs to a patch panel in the basement
[15:21] <adamgreig> next to the bt phone sockets
[15:21] <mattbrejza> oh
[15:21] <gonzo_> I had the BT guy use one of my runs of cat5 to extend the incomming phone cable
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[15:21] <adamgreig> we installed our vdsl modem in the basement and plugged its lan side to the cat6
[15:21] <mattbrejza> so if you want to turn your router off and on again you have to get the key...
[15:22] <adamgreig> router is in the house
[15:22] <mattbrejza> modem
[15:22] <adamgreig> only the modem goes in the basement
[15:22] <adamgreig> yes
[15:22] <gonzo_> could you nkt have patched the line onto the cat6 to your flat?
[15:22] <adamgreig> but we've not had to turn it of and on again once in two years
[15:22] <adamgreig> gonzo_: yea we could have but this seemed neater
[15:22] <gonzo_> do you not used the analogue phone?
[15:22] <adamgreig> we did actually patch the telepony side of the filter to the other cat6
[15:23] <adamgreig> there's 4 cat6s going from the basement to us
[15:23] <adamgreig> two to the living room and two to one of the bedrooms
[15:23] <adamgreig> so we also patched two of them together so the living room could be wired to the bedroom
[15:23] <gonzo_> I have SIP adaptors and BT (after the filter) lines patched into the network rack, using cat5/6 to trunk it
[15:24] <gonzo_> but had to make up boxes to do it (out of old microfilters)
[15:24] <adamgreig> right, we could have just patched the phone directly to the cat6 and then put the modem on our side too I suppose
[15:24] <adamgreig> but eh, it's not been a problem
[15:24] <gonzo_> the landlord is paying for your modem power
[15:24] <adamgreig> just really weird
[15:24] <adamgreig> yep
[15:24] <adamgreig> :p
[15:24] <adamgreig> annoyingly
[15:24] <adamgreig> there's a fibre drop in the basement too
[15:25] <adamgreig> on JANET
[15:25] <adamgreig> but we can't patch into it ;(
[15:25] <gonzo_> not heard that name in a while
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[15:26] <adamgreig> it's a nice fibre and they've got all the kit there too
[15:26] <adamgreig> could probably have slipped and plugged our cat6 into the wrong port
[15:26] <adamgreig> but suspect it has something upstream to stop that working so well
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[15:32] <luteijn> adamgreig: I think if you lower your antenna to <5 meter at night you're fine here. Also, the rules only talk about height, not about the width of the beam, which is basically not limited..
[15:32] <adamgreig> hehe
[15:34] <luteijn> and there may also be some sort of exceptio that if the technical requirements require a longer length to work, you can have a longer antenna, but I 'm not sure if I'm remembering that right.. "Yeah, it's a vertical for 160m, it has to be that tall.."
[15:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP2SGF_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP2SGF_chase
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[16:17] <FuzzyLemon> BALYOLO retrieved safe and sound. The balloon flopped down and got a bit tangled in the parachute rigging
[16:18] <FuzzyLemon> so length of rigging was about 1.4x L instead of 1.6
[16:19] <FuzzyLemon> maybe that made it less hemispherical
[16:19] <FuzzyLemon> *balloon after burst
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[16:28] <eroomde> bk
[16:28] <eroomde> glad it got recovered safely
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[16:41] <Andrew_M0NRD> \quit
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[17:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DO2EIM-2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DO2EIM-2
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[17:32] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[17:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-9 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-9
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[19:52] <Laurenceb__> anyone here any good at latex/bibtex troubleshooting?
[19:52] <Laurenceb__> I have some stupid but impossible to debug issue going on :(
[19:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ASTROPI - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ASTROPI
[19:57] <chris_99> what's up Laurenceb__ , dunno if i can help, but i am using bibtex
[19:57] <Laurenceb__> hmm I may have worked something out
[19:57] <Laurenceb__> how can I feed a bst file into bibtex?
[19:58] <Laurenceb__> I suspect thats what its missing
[19:58] <SM0ULC> p+
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[20:00] <chris_99> hmm, from looking at my files the class file seems to deal with that for me, which is included through something like \documentclass[conference]{IEEEtran}
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[20:02] <chris_99> oh try \bibliographystyle{xyz}
[20:02] <Laurenceb__> ok
[20:04] <Laurenceb__> LaTeX Warning: There were undefined references.
[20:04] <Laurenceb__> something not right here :-/
[20:04] <Laurenceb__> same document was building fine with the style stuff for a different journal
[20:04] <Steffann> pebkac
[20:06] <Laurenceb__> http://pastie.org/10408485
[20:07] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PINKY after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PINKY
[20:08] <chris_99> whats the full error message?
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[20:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PERKY - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PERKY
[20:09] <Laurenceb__> http://pastie.org/10408490
[20:09] <Laurenceb__> lots of earlier citation warnings
[20:11] <Laurenceb__> the bbl file is empty
[20:11] <chris_99> ah
[20:11] <Laurenceb__> I way over my head here :S
[20:12] <Laurenceb__> so that suggests a bibtex issue?
[20:13] <Laurenceb__> maybe it doesnt like the location of the bst file
[20:13] <chris_99> the bbl file is supposed to have your citations in
[20:14] <chris_99> without it, you can't get a bibliography
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[20:15] <Laurenceb__> aha I think i fixed it
[20:15] <Laurenceb__> the bst needed to be in the same directory
[20:16] <chris_99> ah cool
[20:19] <Laurenceb__> yeah worked now, thanks
[20:19] <Laurenceb__> looks quite smart too, no obvious formatting bugs unlike most journals
[20:20] <chris_99> nice :)
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[20:39] <Laurenceb__> as usual with latex I spoke too soon
[20:39] <Laurenceb__> its placing several figures at the end of the document
[20:39] <Laurenceb__> as the float stuff is broken
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[20:44] <Laurenceb__> and FloatBarrier is also broken
[20:44] <Laurenceb__> funtimes
[20:44] <Laurenceb__> I need an army of latex minions :S
[20:45] <chris_99> there is a latex channel btw on freenode, they were pretty helpful when i was on their last
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[20:45] <Laurenceb__> yeah, trying that
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[21:26] <arjunnaha> Anyone got any ideas on how to do a very loud wireless buzzer?
[21:28] <ulfr> What do you mean by wireless?
[21:28] <ulfr> Do you want to activate it wirelessly?
[21:31] <mattbrejza> sounds like the description of a small child
[21:32] <ulfr> Good idea.
[21:33] <daveake> It'll look great on the CAA form. "Scientific equipment carried by balloon: GPS/radio tracker, small child"
[21:34] <daveake> Not that I've ever written down "Superman doll" or "Potato" :)
[21:34] <Upu> if you work it out there are some little ikes round here who kick their football against my car I'd like to put forward for "testing"
[21:34] <daveake> You could test a 6" Estes chute at the same time
[21:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Bet that sets off the alarm without a wire in sight!
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[21:37] <ulfr> I had "Spaceship" on my CAA record.
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[21:57] <fsphil> aurora visible over the UK atm apparently
[21:58] <ulfr> Neat.
[21:58] <ulfr> fsphil: Do you have a rocket available?
[21:58] <ulfr> it's so stormy here.
[21:58] <ulfr> Can't see shit.
[21:59] <fsphil> sadly not
[21:59] <fsphil> but the sky here is clear, going to take a look in a minute
[22:00] <MarkIreland> Not here :(, assume I am too south anyway
[22:00] <ulfr> Damnit.
[22:01] <ulfr> Is anyone here familiar with the Sony Multport thingy?
[22:02] <ulfr> Or has experience reverse engineering such protocols?
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[22:50] <fsphil> totally cloudy here. was clear about 20 minutes ago. silly weather
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[00:00] --- Thu Sep 10 2015