highaltitude.log.20150907

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[04:50] <bobsaget> craag: do you still have the script you wrote to email alert if balloon was back in coverage again?
[05:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HB9FDK-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HB9FDK-12
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[07:00] <LunarWork> hello
[07:00] <eroomde> good morning LunarWork
[07:00] <eroomde> how's testing?
[07:01] <LunarWork> all good thanks
[07:01] <LunarWork> EPR wise as well as balloon wise
[07:01] <eroomde> EPR?
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[07:03] <LunarWork> electron paramagnetic resonance
[07:04] <LunarWork> my main job here at the labs
[07:05] <eroomde> what do you study with EPR?
[07:05] <LunarWork> it's a project where the idea is to measure the sulfonamide content in soil samples, sulfonamides being antibiotics that can get onto fields from farming with the manure of livestock
[07:06] <LunarWork> and with EPR it's hoped to measure how much sulfonamide is in a sample
[07:06] <eroomde> i see
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[07:09] <LunarWork> yea
[07:09] <LunarWork> also my head revolves around too many things
[07:09] <LunarWork> i.e. ideas what to do on flight 3 already and instruments and so ons
[07:09] <LunarWork> on
[07:11] <eroomde> everyone does that
[07:11] <eroomde> when is the 2nd flight?
[07:11] <LunarWork> october most probably because by then everybody is back in
[07:16] <garymortimer> morning all
[07:18] <LunarWork> and currently I am occupying my mind with that LED flasher that graeme marlton discussed in his talk on the conference
[07:19] <eroomde> to detect then in/out of a cloud?
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[07:21] <garymortimer> I pulled flight data yesterday from KZNHAB2 but did'nt notice it lacked the timestamp, can I get that ?
[07:21] <garymortimer> timestamps for each point, obvious
[07:22] <garymortimer> I learnt some more young person speak this weekend but have forgotten it
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[07:24] <garymortimer> ah found it
[07:31] <LunarWork> eroomde, yes and the visibility range
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[07:36] <LunarWork> it is an interesting device with the lock-in type signal recovery they used for that
[07:38] <SpeedEvil> LunarWork: Is EPR really sensitive at ppb?
[07:39] <LunarWork> depends on S/N, I recall from another application (NO2 from air samples) that they could resolve ppt
[07:39] <LunarWork> but that was by concentrating the air by matrix isolation
[07:40] <SpeedEvil> hmm - processed soil I guess maybe
[07:41] <LunarWork> yea
[07:42] <LunarWork> to check if there is an effect, we use humic acid which is just one component found in soil
[07:42] <LunarWork> and later it is hoped to simply take a sample from a field and dry it and then add the spin label and measure
[07:47] <LunarWork> will have to see
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[08:10] <LunarWork> and in the case of the flasher there are also some considerations of course
[08:10] <LunarWork> what power source, bipolar power supply, oscillator and switch and so on
[08:20] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[08:20] <eroomde> yes
[08:20] <eroomde> most interesting sensors need a bit of electronics
[08:21] <eroomde> only the ones of interest to smartphone designers come in neat little smd packages with a 3v3 supply and spi interface
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[08:23] <LunarWork> yeah
[08:47] <RealBorg> which most interesting sensors do you mean?
[09:07] <SpeedEvil> MRI, mass-spec, electron microscope, ...
[09:17] <RealBorg> what for do you need an electron microscope at high altitude?
[09:17] <mattbrejza> even pressure and temperature...
[09:17] <mattbrejza> humidity too
[09:17] <RealBorg> easy to get for spi
[09:18] <RealBorg> i2c
[09:18] <mattbrejza> yea but youre just measuring the inside temperautre of your pcb
[09:19] <RealBorg> if you put the sensor outside?
[09:19] <mattbrejza> then the sun hits it
[09:19] <mattbrejza> or it self heats
[09:31] <Laurenceb> theres some nice lock in led spectrometer stuff on my github
[09:32] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Chibi-Spectro
[09:32] <Laurenceb> runs on F4 discovery
[09:33] <Laurenceb> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Laurenceb/Chibi-Spectro/master/hardware/Image0009.jpg
[09:34] <Laurenceb> needs a plug in amplifier board for the photodiode and thats about it
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[10:36] <ntx2> Hey - I have a question about the NMEA sentences...if the GPS fix code is anything other than 0, does it mean that we can use the GPS coordinates?
[10:36] <ntx2> I am using this as reference - http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=768
[10:36] <ntx2> it says that if the fix quality indicator will be 0 for invalid fix
[10:37] <ntx2> but there are others like DGPS and PPS which I do not know if I should consider or not
[10:37] <fsphil> the higher the better I believe
[10:37] <fsphil> more accurate*
[10:37] <ntx2> so far with my GPS I have only seen 1 or 0
[10:38] <fsphil> but yeah if it's > 0 then the fix should be valid
[10:38] <ntx2> great! that is helpful
[10:41] <ntx2> when we output the GPS coordinates from the GPS to habhub server, we have to convert the NMEA coordinates to decimal?
[10:42] <ntx2> or do we just send what we get from the GPS
[10:42] <gonzo_> your choice
[10:43] <fsphil> in your payload document you can tell it which format you're sending
[10:43] <fsphil> decimal is nicer (for humans) but more work
[10:43] <gonzo_> I just copy the bits from the NMEA strings rather than convert them in the air. No point adding complications that could lead to errors
[10:43] <fsphil> the dddhh.hhhh format is just weird
[10:44] <Maxell> Yeah if you have no mobile data reception in your landing zone you just want to put in the GPS cordinates from dl-fldigi into your waypoint app
[10:44] <gonzo_> has anyone tried binary packing recently? Will habhub support that?
[10:45] <ntx2> Maxell - can you elaborate? I am confused
[10:45] <gonzo_> I have had to do a D.M.S to decimal conversion on a bit of paper, as a landing site. But as it was on the ground, only had to do it once
[10:45] <Maxell> ntx2: If you let your payload do the math you will recieve useable coordinates directly into dl-fldigi.
[10:46] <ntx2> I have this feature in my code
[10:46] <Maxell> Otherwise you'll have to do it in stress
[10:46] <Maxell> On paper :P
[10:46] <ntx2> ah ok
[10:46] <Maxell> Or write/get some software to do it on the ground.
[10:46] <ntx2> I was wondering what you mean by mobile data reception got to do with it
[10:46] <gonzo_> but so many flights have suffered maths probs
[10:46] <Maxell> Well, we have used the habhub tracker site for navigating. Never had to use the GPS coordinates directly.
[10:47] <ntx2> why have flights suffered from math problems?
[10:47] <daveake> coding errors
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[10:47] <gonzo_> crossing the meridian, number ofnmea digits changing etc
[10:48] <Maxell> Once out of service area the habhub tracker site wont work. You will have to work with raw GPS location being recieved by your dl-fldigi
[10:48] <Maxell> gonzo_: very true. Thats one less thing we Dutchies don't have to worry about :_)
[10:48] <ntx2> Maxell: you mean if we lose internet connectivity to send dl-fldigi data to the server
[10:49] <gonzo_> I think the maths errors are in Dave's 'how not to' guide
[10:49] <Maxell> ntx2: no, to watch the habhub tracker page.
[10:49] <ntx2> good point
[10:49] <Maxell> The navigator was using the website. However what if we had no internet there?
[10:49] <ntx2> the connectivity can affect both sides - upload to server and watching the server too
[10:50] <Maxell> The navigator had to work with raw GPS then.
[10:50] <gonzo_> ntx2, he means that if you are using habhub to give you a decimal lat lon conversion. If you are out of 3g/4g coverage, you have to do that yourself by hand, or have a prog to do it
[10:50] <Maxell> So yeah, make sure you can navigate offline.
[10:50] <Maxell> yeah what gonzo_ said
[10:50] <Maxell> :P
[10:53] <fsphil> !wiki common coding errors
[10:53] <SpacenearUS> 03fsphil: Wiki page 03common_coding_errors_payload_testing - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing
[10:56] <ntx2> That coding page is awesome
[10:56] <fsphil> we've all had ackward bugs :)
[10:57] <fsphil> the padding bug is a very common one
[10:58] <gonzo_> would I be smug to say that I've had no bugs? So far
[10:59] <gonzo_> but went for the simple approach. Just search for the delimiters in the nmea and copy the chrs into the rtty
[10:59] <gonzo_> so that if there were any errors, at least the raw data would cone down and could be worked around on the ground
[11:13] <dbrooke> I think it's still necessary to add a - for W and S but yes, minimal conversion
[11:20] <Vaizki> I use I2C and UBX to talk to the GPS so I get a ready struct with 32bit ints for lat/lon
[11:20] <Vaizki> so lazy that I don't even add the . in the tracker code, I use scaling on habhub side :D
[11:22] <ntx2> Vaizki: how do you use i2c to connect to GPS?
[11:22] <ntx2> and how does it get you the int values instead of NMEA?
[11:23] <Vaizki> well you hook up SCL and SDA to the ublox module/chip and then you send it requests..
[11:23] <Vaizki> and then you turn off automatic NMEA spam from i2c interface, set it to flight mode and then every time I need a position I explicitly request it from the Ublox
[11:23] <LunarWork> Laurenceb, cool!
[11:26] <Vaizki> ntx2, it's all in here :) https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/products/documents/u-bloxM8_ReceiverDescrProtSpec_%28UBX-13003221%29_Public.pdf
[11:27] <Vaizki> I'm not saying it's easier to use for everyone but if you are accustomed to working with C/C++, structs, asynchronous programming, timers, interrupts etc.. then parsing NMEA data from ASCII is just an extra pain in the ass
[11:28] <Vaizki> with the UBX protocol you send a 8-byte poll request to the GPS module, then you get back a binary lump with all the data.. and you can just read that directly into memory and cast it to a struct
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[11:30] <ntx2> thanks
[11:30] <ntx2> that makes sense :)
[11:34] <Vaizki> in that doc, 21.16.9 UBX-NAV-PVT (0x01 0x07)
[11:34] <Vaizki> that's what I use. gives me UTC timestamp, position accuracy, number of satelllites used, lat/long, height, speed, etc
[11:34] <Vaizki> all in one
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[11:39] <ntx2> thanks
[11:40] <ntx2> I want to test if my payload data is being parsed correctly
[11:40] <ntx2> so I just have to create a payload document here and mark it as a test payload?
[11:40] <ntx2> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[11:44] <Vaizki> you don't need to mark it as a test payload
[11:51] <ntx2> thanks
[11:51] <ntx2> so while going through the parser while creating the payload
[11:51] <ntx2> it asks for field type for the GPS either coordinate or float or integer
[11:52] <ntx2> since I am converting it to decimal, I should say float instead of coordinate, right?
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[11:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03FRINUS - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=FRINUS
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[12:04] <f5mvo> Hello, anybody have Frinus info ?
[12:05] <f5mvo> Its balloon near Paris ?
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[12:07] <ntx2> yes
[12:07] <ntx2> I was testing
[12:07] <ntx2> FRINUS was me
[12:08] <ntx2> did I mess up something?
[12:09] <f5mvo> Hello, you are near Versailles ?
[12:10] <ntx2> yes
[12:11] <f5mvo> sur quelle fréquence je peux entendre la télémetrie ?
[12:12] <f5mvo> what frequency do you use for télémetry ?
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[12:12] <ntx2> well, I am only testing now
[12:12] <ntx2> are you here in France/Paris too?
[12:12] <f5mvo> ok no problem
[12:13] <f5mvo> Yes i am near Paris
[12:13] <ntx2> I am planning the launch from south of Paris on 27/28
[12:13] <ntx2> of this month
[12:13] <f5mvo> ok its intersting
[12:13] <ntx2> ?
[12:14] <f5mvo> you transmit on 433 mHZ ~
[12:15] <ntx2> yes, I am planning 434.385
[12:15] <ntx2> or something in that range
[12:15] <ntx2> I am testing now and as the sun comes and goes, the frequency changes a bit with the tempareture
[12:16] <daveake> this is normal for an ntx2, ntx2
[12:16] <f5mvo> rtty ?
[12:17] <ntx2> yes
[12:17] <ntx2> daveake - I am planning to do ssdv
[12:18] <f5mvo> i am interesting for the launch ?
[12:19] <ntx2> I am wondering if I should scale down the images taken by the raspi camera or will it be done by the ssdv?
[12:19] <ntx2> f5mvo - you mean, you want to be part of the launch?
[12:19] <daveake> ssdv won't scale
[12:19] <ntx2> so I have to take a low quality picture, right?
[12:20] <daveake> up to you how you do it
[12:21] <f5mvo> Yes, if i can come to seethe launch, anco@neuf.fr for more info if you want
[12:21] <ntx2> sure. I am launching from a friend's place. I feel he should be fine. I will get in touch with you
[12:21] <ntx2> it will be nice to have more people :)
[12:21] <ntx2> have you done launches before?
[12:22] <ntx2> daveake - you mean, I can try to do ssdv with the full res picture? (but of course it will kill the transmission trying to send all the bytes)?
[12:23] <f5mvo> Yes i launch a ballon with french télevision ' on est pas des cobayes ' from french-météo Trappes
[12:23] <ntx2> nice! My friend has launched one and this is my first one
[12:24] <ntx2> what did you use as the onboard computer+tracker etc?
[12:27] <f5mvo> for tracker, you have put a radiosonde M2K2 with home made board of a friend, with 3 Gopro camera
[12:27] <ntx2> you sent 3 Gopros?
[12:27] <ntx2> wow, that is something :)
[12:28] <ntx2> I am only sending the Raspberry pi camera and a canon
[12:28] <f5mvo> Yes, 3 from French-télévision
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[12:29] <f5mvo> In France, near Paris, i follow the radiosonde
[12:29] <chimpusmaximus> Just an update on my gopro 4 black issues.. Currently getting over 3hrs 50 recording at 2.7k 50fps....
[12:31] <chimpusmaximus> Currently back to having internal battery as well as external power source and turned of protune. Once this tests finishes will test again with no internal battery, as it does keep heat down a bit.
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[12:32] <f5mvo> what is the payload weight about ?
[12:37] <f5mvo> nothing on 434.385
[12:39] <f5mvo> normal, the altitude is too low
[12:39] <f5mvo> I must leave the forum, see you laeter
[12:42] <f5mvo> Ok, thanks ntx2
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[12:51] <LunarWork> be back later
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[12:58] <ntx2> anyone done live ssdv with their launch?
[12:58] <ntx2> how many images do you typically receive for the duration of the flight?
[13:04] <chimpusmaximus> this is just a rough guess but i'm sure people get about 60 odd images at 300 baud
[13:05] <ntx2> thanks
[13:06] <ntx2> I am wondering how I can send down the images..for eg., take image on raspi camera, reduce its resolution and then do SSDV?
[13:06] <ntx2> or is there a better way?
[13:07] <chimpusmaximus> Have a look at what PITS does. I'm sure it takes a low res and high res version, saving the need to resize etc.
[13:09] <ntx2> ok
[13:09] <ntx2> and then just do this every 5 mins?
[13:10] <ntx2> so no telemetry will be sent when images are being sent...
[13:14] <chimpusmaximus> PITS i think sends 4 image packets for each telemetry string
[13:23] <chimpusmaximus> 4hrs 35min 2.7k 50fps on a 128GB card. Looking good for a flight.
[13:28] <daveake> 4 is default but it can be controlle din the config. Also, below 2000m (again configurable) it switches to 1:1
[13:30] <ntx2> daveake - I am writing my own code and so wanted to know how you do it with PITS
[13:31] <daveake> Up to you how you do it. You can either take a small picture or take a large one and then resize it. The actual size you send will determine, together with the baud rate, how long it takes to send an image.
[13:32] <ntx2> I am testing it now
[13:32] <ntx2> I am taking a 432X240
[13:32] <ntx2> at 50% quality
[13:33] <daveake> The SSDV program converts the jpeg to an SSDV format file. That file contains a number of 256-byte packets. You can send 1 or more of those packets, then a teelemetry packet, then more SSDV packets till the image is sent.
[13:34] <gonzo_> as there have been plenty of low-ish res SSDV flights, and that once in the air, most of the frames are very similar. I wonder if there is merit in sending fewer but much higher res frames?
[13:34] <daveake> You don't want to send an entire SSDV file in one go (i.e. without any telemetry packets) because then you would have 5 minutes (apprx) without a position
[13:41] <ntx2> i see
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[14:22] <Anasule> How can i find a baloon launch close to me that i can request to attend?
[14:23] <UpuWork> Afternoon Anasule
[14:23] <eroomde> where are you?
[14:23] <UpuWork> where are you ?
[14:23] <UpuWork> snap
[14:23] <eroomde> and are you subscribed to the ukhas mailing list?
[14:23] <eroomde> and have you subscribed to the ukahs launch calendar feed?
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[14:24] <Anasule_> @Upuwork Birmingham, United Kingdom
[14:24] <Anasule_> Sorry browser crashed on me :o/
[14:25] <eroomde> there are soemtimes launches from worcester
[14:25] <UpuWork> oh yeah you should be ok
[14:25] <UpuWork> keep an eye on the UKHAS mailing list
[14:25] <Anasule_> Worcester is fine i dont mind a drive
[14:25] <UpuWork> generally launches are announced 2-3 days in advance
[14:27] <UpuWork> also hang about on here if you can
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[14:27] <UpuWork> or not :)
[14:27] <daveake> lol
[14:30] <dbrooke> daveake: a challenge, to land a PITS payload at http://lbw.crye.me.uk/include/images/7344_Pie-in-the-Sky_contact.JPG
[14:30] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[14:32] <eroomde> or richard griffith's grave
[14:32] <eroomde> i suspect that might have had to be quite a big hole actually
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[14:33] <eroomde> hmm yes, that coffin is about the size of a 50% confidence ellipse for the predictor http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1820613.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/The-funeral-of-Richard-Griffiths.jpg
[14:34] <eroomde> (possibly poor taste link)
[14:38] <dbrooke> he was certainly no lightweight
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[16:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NV2Z-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NV2Z-11
[16:41] <garymortimer> Grownups had to get the payload it was in with rhinos http://www.doarama.com/view/504603
[16:44] <eroomde> Geoff-G8DHE-M: you have competition ^
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[17:38] <arjunnaha> How big of period of time can the permission window be applied for?
[17:41] <mattbrejza> 2 weeks is common
[17:42] <mattbrejza> you then confirm when you actually intend to launch within a couple of days of launching
[17:42] <mattbrejza> the NOTAM is then only valid on that day
[17:43] <arjunnaha> Thanks
[17:45] <mattbrejza> np
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[17:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03gujujj_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=gujujj_chase
[17:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03home_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=home_chase
[18:02] <gonzo_nb> also they will sometimes ask that you let them know when you have launched, if you are asking for permission for , say a few weekends
[18:02] <gonzo_nb> so they can cancel it for any remaining time
[18:08] <arjunnaha> Sorry, 2 quick questions...
[18:09] <arjunnaha> What does it mean by Daily Period
[18:09] <arjunnaha> Is that just a fancy word for time?
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[18:23] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[18:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> eroomde, Yup more the better! Only looked on the tablet so far should look good on the larger monitors!!
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[19:22] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PIGLET after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PIGLET
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[20:16] <tweetBot> @m4rkireland: Catching up on the #ukhas 2015 Conference post-holiday https://t.co/tR5SwKQgVd
[20:16] <tweetBot> Shame there will be no after-pub for us this time&
[20:16] <tweetBot> @stratodean: Catching up on the #ukhas 2015 Conference post-holiday https://t.co/D0tHrL4SqY
[20:16] <tweetBot> Shame there will be no after-pub for us this time&
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[21:45] <parachute> hi
[21:46] <parachute> I am using the habhub calculator to calculate which balloon to use
[21:46] <parachute> and when it asks for payload weight, the weight includes parachute also?
[21:46] <parachute> is there a guideline on what to include for parachute weight?
[21:49] <daveake> Starting with your payload weight, choose a chute that gives you about 5m/s landing speed
[21:49] <daveake> There's a calculator on http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Parachutes.html for models that are sold on that site
[21:49] <daveake> The models there have their weight listed
[21:50] <daveake> Which you then add to the payload weight, plus say another 20g for the cord, do to the burst calculation
[21:52] <parachute> thanks, that is very useful
[21:53] <parachute> I see that you have different suppliers for parachutes and balloons on the wiki. It also seems to recommend the sperachutes supplier for parachutes.
[21:54] <parachute> so is it recommended to buy the parachutes from this vendor and balloon from any of the other balloon vendors listed on the site?
[21:54] <daveake> Get them all from random solutions
[22:02] <parachute> thanks
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[22:02] <parachute> when I plug these values into http://habhub.org/calc/
[22:02] <parachute> I get a cubic m volume. Is this the amount of helium needed?
[22:03] <parachute> or is there a different place to calculate the helium needed for the launch?
[22:04] <mfa298> most people fill based on the neck lift as that's easier to measure, but the cubic volume will give you an idea of what cylinder to get
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[22:04] <parachute> thanks! I am getting a neck lift of 1422g. Is that too high or normal?
[22:05] <mattbrejza> seems fine
[22:05] <mattbrejza> a reasonably small payload? (say <1kg?)
[22:05] <daveake> "I get a cubic m volume" and "I am getting a neck lift of 1422" ... does not compute
[22:06] <daveake> if you mean 1 m^3 that won't give you that neck lift
[22:06] <parachute> I am getting 2.55 cubic meter of volume
[22:06] <daveake> fine
[22:06] <parachute> neck lift of 1422 g
[22:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NLDPH01 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NLDPH01
[22:06] <mfa298> gas volume / neck lift will be related to what your payload weight is and what balloon you choose
[22:07] <parachute> payload is indeed small - less than 1 kg
[22:07] <parachute> this is my first launch and I want to keep it simple
[22:07] <daveake> 1kg is large these days
[22:07] <parachute> ah ok
[22:07] <daveake> (except for USA where it's a pico, ofc)
[22:08] <daveake> IIRC most of the skycademy flights were around 300g
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[22:09] <parachute> what do they consist of?
[22:09] <parachute> I have a canon camera that might be adding to the weight
[22:09] <daveake> Pi + PITS + Pi cam
[22:10] <daveake> You can do a Canon + tracker in less than 300g
[22:10] <parachute> hmmm... I wonder what is making my payload so heavy...
[22:10] <daveake> I think the lightest A-series Canon Powershot is 125g plus 2 AAs (another 32g)
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[22:11] <daveake> add tracker and box and you're much less than 300g
[22:11] <parachute> it might be the batteries
[22:11] <parachute> I am not using AAs but USB rechargeable ones
[22:11] <parachute> and I have a 3G dongle for SMS
[22:12] <mfa298> some would consider 3G dongle a waste of power and weight (likely hood of working isn't always that great)
[22:13] <parachute> right. I know
[22:13] <parachute> again, it was all for me to learn these technologies
[22:16] <parachute> thanks and good night
[22:16] <parachute> bye for now
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[00:00] --- Tue Sep 8 2015