highaltitude.log.20150805

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[02:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VORTEX8 after 038 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VORTEX8
[02:43] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VORTEX2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VORTEX2
[02:44] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VORTEX4 after 038 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VORTEX4
[02:49] <M0JCU> Countdown for ERC is at T-3h10 (ISH)
[02:51] <M0JCU> Live stream http://esrange.insupport.se/
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[03:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF6WBV_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF6WBV_chase
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[05:09] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03LZ100AJ after 033 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LZ100AJ
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[05:29] <M0JCU> T-30 minutes for Vortex
[05:30] <M0JCU> Live stream at http://esrange.insupport.se/
[05:46] <x-f> there are two balloons in that stream?
[05:47] <x-f> there's something white and tiny moving about that tower in the background
[05:47] <x-f> good luck with the launch
[05:47] <M0JCU> There are actually three.
[05:47] <M0JCU> There is also a red blimp
[05:48] <M0JCU> The small white one is a wind indicator
[05:48] <M0JCU> Ditto the blimp
[05:48] <x-f> ah, spotted the blimp too
[05:49] <x-f> the weather looks nice, just like here, hope the wind isn't too much for a ZP balloon
[05:57] <M0JCU> Launch within 5 minutes
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[06:01] <M0JCU> Any time now
[06:03] <x-f> nice! :)
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[06:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Chidz_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Chidz_chase
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[08:47] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RAJ-3 after 034 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RAJ-3
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[08:51] <ok1cdj> gd all
[08:56] <fsphil> morning
[09:02] <ok1cdj> Ballon RAJ-3 was launched now..
[09:03] <ok1cdj> path will be to south.. looking for tracker in S5, 9A, LZ, YO, I
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[10:39] <ntx2> hi
[10:39] <ntx2> I have a problem with dl-fl-digi...am wondering if someone can help.
[10:39] <craag> go ahead
[10:40] <ntx2> I am decoding my transmission and I can hear the audio coming from the sound card. I see the two yellow bands in dl-fl-digi also, decode goes well for about the first 20-30 messages
[10:40] <ntx2> then the yellow bar slowly disappears but the audio can be heard and there is no change to the audio (at least to my ears)
[10:41] <ntx2> then the messages start to get garbled
[10:41] <ntx2> and then slowly the entire message gets garbled...
[10:41] <craag> huh
[10:41] <ntx2> and at this time, there is no yellow bar in dl-fl-digi
[10:41] <craag> can you record the audio for us?
[10:41] <ntx2> ah sure.
[10:47] <fsphil> and take a few screenshots showing the yellow line disappearing
[10:47] <fsphil> when you say disappear, is it moving off to the left or right?
[10:48] <Ian_> Also what type of receiver are you using; dongle sdr?
[10:51] <ntx2> so there is a change to the audio...
[10:51] <ntx2> I can see the yellow bar drifting leftwards
[10:51] <fsphil> some drifting is normal when you first power it on
[10:52] <ntx2> I am using a SDR dongle
[10:52] <fsphil> you'll have to retune the receiver (or your SDR program) to follow it
[10:52] <ntx2> I am using gqrx to tune.....and I did tune it a bit and then the signal seems to have come back
[10:53] <ntx2> but is this normal when the transmitter is sitting right next to the receiver?
[10:53] <fsphil> drift is not affected by distance at all
[10:53] <ntx2> so is there something wrong? and if so, where?
[10:54] <fsphil> nothing wrong. it's normal enough
[10:54] <ntx2> so we have to keep retuning the receiver?
[10:54] <ntx2> let me share the audio I recorded
[10:54] <fsphil> the clock that determines the frequency the ntx2 transmits at will drift slightly with temperature
[10:54] <fsphil> same inside the SDR dongle
[10:55] <fsphil> though the ntx2b shouldn't drift all that much
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[10:55] <ntx2_> tempareture might be a problem
[10:55] <ntx2_> since my laptop is front of a sunny window and the keyboard and the dongle feel hot
[10:56] <fsphil> the sdr dongle's drift will slow down once it reaches its normal operating temperature
[10:56] <fsphil> same with the ntx2
[10:56] <fsphil> though on a HAB the air temperature will be changing quickly so they do drift during the flight
[10:57] <ntx2_> thats interesting
[10:57] <ntx2_> and makes it challenging to track then
[10:58] <fsphil> is it the old ntx2 or the newer ntx2b?
[10:58] <ntx2_> newer ntx2b
[10:58] <fsphil> they shouldn't be too bad
[10:58] <ntx2_> ok good to hear :)
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[11:01] <ntx2_> I am waiting to do another test after the dongle cools down
[11:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> If you use SDR-Console then dl-fldigi can send commands to retune it automatically for you :-)
[11:02] <Ian_> Dongle is probably best to be continually powered, but maybe not left in direct sunshine.
[11:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> All of my dongles remained powered up all of the time
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[11:03] <Ian_> We are spoiled a little today when we turn on a receiver and expect the drift to be minimal. Long time ago you had to wait 20 minutes for a set to warm up and stabilise properly. (before my time of course)
[11:04] <Ian_> Not so different for some test equipment today either, so the practice is sound.
[11:04] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Yup used to have an old CR100 and that never seemed to stop drifting at times!
[11:07] <Ian_> My first owned raido was a Lafayette HA-230 which used to skate up and down the band even on a good day. Bcast rx in a tin box - I couldln't believe how years ago there were fan boys that thought that they were something to treasure (skip maybe!) but that's marketing and reputation for you!
[11:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> :)
[11:19] Nick change: michal_f_AFK2 -> michal_f
[11:19] <michal_f> what is this sdr-console ?
[11:20] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> http://sdr-radio.com/
[11:20] <michal_f> thx
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[11:22] <fsphil> in theory gqrx can be retuned too
[11:23] <fsphil> it has an interface for it but I've not tried it
[11:23] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[11:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> fldigi supports hamlib so should be viable then
[11:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> are but via a serial port not a TCP connection
[11:26] <russss> I don't think gqrx's network interface is compatible with the rigctld protocol, but it would be relatively easy to write a shim
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[11:26] <russss> oh wait, it is, kind of. It might work.
[11:27] <russss> the rigctld protocol is a mess though. Some client applications expect a different subset of features and refuse to work if they're not there.
[11:31] <ntx2_> the audio still deteorates even when the dongle is not heating up
[11:32] <ntx2_> I recorded the audio...I will give you the link in a min
[11:32] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Probably the NTX is drifting and still coing off tune, you do have AFC on in the lower right corner ?
[11:33] <ntx2_> yes, AFC is green in the lower right corner
[11:33] <ntx2_> http://expirebox.com/download/414ad12ace5082e81bf2261206f23ccd.html
[11:33] <ntx2_> is the recording of the audio
[11:34] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> give us a screen shot of the dl-fldigi and gqrx or whatever your driving it from
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[11:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Your ri=unning that at a very low audio frequency tune it so its around 1-1.5kHz
[11:37] <ntx2_> http://imgur.com/Wz2XWxR
[11:37] <ntx2_> http://imgur.com/hJ2sfdN
[11:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> when testing always have the SQL turned off it means you can see what is happening better!
[11:38] <russss> you probably want more gain on the SDR there
[11:38] <ntx2_> what is SQL here and what does it do?
[11:39] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Squelch it shuts off the audio being decoded once the noise level rises or the audio falls below a given level
[11:40] <ntx2_> ok...I also increased the gain to 18db now
[11:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> You have a level slider and an on/off switch in the corner
[11:41] <ntx2_> interestingly no drift now
[11:41] <ntx2_> but I only changed the gain and retuned it
[11:41] <ntx2_> and that is all it takes?
[11:42] <ntx2_> to ensure no drift?
[11:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> No drift it is a function of the Tx orRx not the levels
[11:42] <ntx2_> so I am guessing that there is still something wrong and I need to fix something
[11:42] <ntx2_> but I am not sure what
[11:43] <ntx2_> I mean...I do not want to be lucky to have a stable signal now only to lose it later
[11:43] <ntx2_> when doing the live launch for instance
[11:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> As things warm up they drift in frequency as the oscillator crystal is temperature dependent
[11:43] <ntx2_> ok, so when we are in the chase car, we need to keep continually retuning the receiver?
[11:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> this is why TCXO are used either Temperature Compensated or Temperature Controlled
[11:44] <ntx2_> meaning?
[11:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> however there are limits to the range that can be adjusted for
[11:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> The other cause in the Tx might be voltage falling causing drift as well
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[11:48] <ntx2_> voltage falling where?
[11:48] <ntx2_> in the transmitter?
[11:48] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> the older devices just had a crystal oscillator, now they are fitted with Temperature Compensated Crystal oscillator
[11:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> yes if the voltage falls in the Tx than that can cause drift as well.
[11:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> it can happen in the Rx as well but hopefully your powering it from a USB port that should be regulated!
[11:50] <ntx2_> yes, my dongle is powered by USB
[11:51] <dbrooke> ntx2_: the RTTY filter bandwidth looks to be about 100Hz there but for 150 baud needs to be at least 150Hz
[11:51] <dbrooke> also the shift looks more like 450Hz but it's hard to be sure as the audio level is a bit low
[11:53] <ntx2_> a shift of 450Hz should be ok, right?
[11:53] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Yes
[11:54] <ntx2_> regarding the filter bandwidth
[11:54] <ntx2_> where do I set it?
[11:54] <dbrooke> right click where it says RTTY at bottom left
[11:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Right click ower left corner and all the settings pop up
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[11:55] <dbrooke> then there is a slider at the bottom of the pop-up
[11:55] <dbrooke> (or click the auto tickbox)
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[11:57] <ntx2_> ok, changed it
[11:59] <ntx2_> there is no yellow bar but I see two blue bars
[11:59] <ntx2_> and the decoding is going fine
[11:59] <dbrooke> is there any particular reason for using 150baud? most people use 50 for telemetry or 300 (sometimes 600) for SSDV
[12:00] <dbrooke> the blue will turn yellow if you increase the audio level, the diamond left of AFC should be green, not black
[12:01] <ntx2_> I do not mind changing to 50baud
[12:02] <ntx2_> I just used 150 since I was testing
[12:03] <dbrooke> you should get a little bit more range at 50 and it's normally plenty fast enough for telemetry
[12:05] <ntx2_> I want to test my ssdv setup also
[12:05] <ntx2_> how do I do that?
[12:05] <ntx2_> I have the code to create the ssdv transmission
[12:06] <ntx2_> how to test that it is being decoded correctly?
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[12:06] <daveake> In dl-fldigi, it will show a green bar saying "Image x packet y ..."
[12:07] <dbrooke> dl-fldigi detects SSDV automatically, you will want a faster baud rate for that as there's a lot more data
[12:07] <daveake> Also in the menu, choose View --> SSDV
[12:07] <daveake> Yes you will need 300 baud, 8 bits
[12:07] <daveake> 50 baud is for VSSDV
[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[12:08] <daveake> ah good someone got it :)
[12:10] <ntx2_> so I changed the baud rate for the telemetry
[12:10] <ntx2_> now I cannot receive the signal on sdr...
[12:10] <ntx2_> since the new baud rate is 50
[12:11] <ntx2_> I mean - I can see the signal but I do not hear the audio changing
[12:11] <daveake> You changed what baud rate?
[12:12] <ntx2_> I changed the baud rate at which NTX2 is transmitting from 150 to 50
[12:12] <ntx2_> and now I do not hear the high pitched modem like sound
[12:12] <dbrooke> what hardware are you using to generate the RTTY?
[12:12] <daveake> ok, and the sound is the same ?
[12:13] <daveake> It should sound very different
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[12:15] <ntx2_> sound is different
[12:15] <ntx2_> but I do not hear it changing when a message is received
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[12:17] <daveake> Do you see 2 lines in dl-fldigi?
[12:17] <dbrooke> the reason I asked about hardware is you went on to mention SSDV and if you're using the UART on a Pi I don't think it supports 50 baud
[12:17] <daveake> it does
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[12:18] <daveake> That's what I'm flying on Friday :)
[12:18] <ntx2_> I am using a PL2303 to send the serial messages to the NTX2
[12:18] <dbrooke> oh OK, thought I'd seen it mentioned that it didn't but I've never tried
[12:19] <ibanezmatt13> I do recall something like that, the Pi not being able to handle a certain baud rate, unless it's been rectified
[12:20] <dbrooke> well, I believe daveake 8-)
[12:20] <daveake> I believe the tracker I've been running all week
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[12:20] <ibanezmatt13> yea, must have been a glitch in my memory
[12:21] <dbrooke> could still be an issue with PL2303 though, again I haven't tried
[12:21] <ntx2_> http://www.prolific.com.tw/UserFiles/files/ds_pl2303HXD_v1_4_4.pdf
[12:21] <ntx2_> 50 is not on the PL2303 list
[12:21] <ntx2_> that explains it
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[12:22] <ntx2_> I will change to 75 then
[12:22] <ntx2_> but is it a problem if I keep it at 150?
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[12:22] <dbrooke> well, if you plan to do SSDV you want 300 anyway
[12:23] <ntx2_> sure
[12:23] <ntx2_> so for ssdv, I use 300
[12:23] <ntx2_> and for regular telemetry, I can use 150 or should I go to 75?
[12:24] <dbrooke> you don't want to change it on the fly
[12:25] <ibanezmatt13> you can interlace your telemetry with the ssdv images I think
[12:25] <dbrooke> so if you're interleaving SSDV and telemetry it all wants to ba at 300
[12:25] <ntx2_> got it
[12:25] <ntx2_> that makes sense
[12:28] <ntx2_> so I was able to get dl-fl-digi to decode at 75
[12:28] <ntx2_> but at 300 baud, it is just spitting out junk
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[12:29] <daveake> Yes you can interleave. You need to send a complete telemetry sentence, then 1 or more complete SSDV packets (256 bytes each) befotre going back to telemetry
[12:29] <dbrooke> you may need to increase the RTTY decode bandwidth if you didn't tick auto, needs to be at least 300Hz for 300 baud
[12:30] <daveake> I do 1:1 on the ground and low altitudes (when you want the position), and 1:4 at higher altitudes (when you're more interested in images)
[12:31] <ibanezmatt13> that's a good idea
[12:32] <ntx2_> how to change the decode bandwidth? I already changed the baud rate in the settings from the bottom left corner to 300 baud
[12:32] <daveake> also I change the image size - no point sending large images of someone's bum
[12:32] <daveake> or worse
[12:32] <daveake> <dbrooke> you may need to increase the RTTY decode bandwidth if you didn't tick auto, needs to be at least 300Hz for 300 baud
[12:33] <daveake> In the RTTY settings page with everything else
[12:33] <daveake> I suggest you set it to Auto
[12:33] <ntx2_> I do not see any setting for auto..?
[12:33] <ntx2_> let me send a screenshot
[12:34] <ntx2_> http://imgur.com/FpqnD0I
[12:35] <daveake> It's there in the Windows version I have
[12:36] <daveake> Anyway, set it manually
[12:36] <dbrooke> and my linux build
[12:36] <ntx2_> so I have to set it manually..? but where
[12:36] <daveake> Erm seriously?
[12:36] <daveake> The bar at the bottom labelled "Filter Bandwidth"
[12:36] <daveake> Obscure labelling I know :/
[12:38] <ntx2_> but I already changed it to 300 from 150
[12:39] <dbrooke> yes, it's OK in that screenshot
[12:39] <ntx2_> exactly
[12:39] <ntx2_> that is why I was surprised that it was not able to decode at 300 baud
[12:40] <dbrooke> did anything else change, you have 8 bits set, is that what it's sending?
[12:41] <ntx2_> yes
[12:41] <dbrooke> telemetry only needs 7 but SSDV (and any interleaved telemetry) will need 8
[12:41] <ntx2_> I changed only the baudrate
[12:41] <ntx2_> in the code
[12:45] <ntx2_> I can see an yellow line at the far right end on the bottom bar
[12:45] <ntx2_> but it does not let me extend it more towards the right
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[12:47] <dbrooke> at 300 baud you should have 2 wider lines, you may need to retune the SDR software
[12:52] <ntx2_> I can hear the audio changing with the message though
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[12:55] <dbrooke> this has a wider shift than yours, so you wont have as much space between the 2 tones http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/data/uploads/tracking/dl4.jpg
[12:57] <ntx2_> wow that is a LOT
[12:57] <ntx2_> I have not seen anything like that in my case
[12:59] <dbrooke> at your shift they'll probably meet in the middle
[13:01] <michal_f> what shift is recommended for 300baud ?
[13:02] <michal_f> I currently have around 430hz
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[13:06] <dbrooke> must be > 300Hz but I'm not sure if any particular value is preferred
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[13:07] <michal_f> so 430 seems ok
[13:10] <ntx2_> let me try with 430 then
[13:10] Nick change: Wiktor -> Wiktord
[13:10] <dbrooke> it should work, PITS seems to use 910 but that may be to allow for using 600baud
[13:10] <daveake> I think it was an accident :/
[13:10] <dbrooke> random junk box resistors?
[13:11] <daveake> I shall defer to the principal hardware engineer on this one :)
[13:12] <dbrooke> probably the values he wanted rid of then 8-)
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[13:33] <ntx2_> ok, so it was the shift
[13:33] <ntx2_> I changed it to 430 Hz and I can decode
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[13:33] <ntx2_> but some characters are missing or messed up
[13:35] <ntx2_> so I have to retune the SDR every minute for the decoding to be accurate
[13:38] <fsphil> hmm,, VSSDV... *ponders*
[13:40] Action: daveake Tms it
[13:40] <daveake> TM
[13:40] <fsphil> wonder what the minimum number of bits would be needed to send a recognisable image
[13:41] <daveake> 1
[13:41] <fsphil> without a preset image :p
[13:41] <daveake> 0=below 20km
[13:41] <daveake> 1=above woohoo black sky
[13:41] <daveake> yes that would work too :)
[13:41] <ntx2_> bye. thanks for all the help
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[14:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF6WBV_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF6WBV_chase
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[15:54] <fsphil> http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/reference.png > compressed to 1 byte > http://www.sanslogic.co.uk/testframe.png :)
[15:54] <fsphil> imagine what it could do with 16 bytes
[15:54] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WB1SAR-11 after 0321 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB1SAR-11
[15:57] <Laurenceb> fsphil: so do it
[15:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD7ICN-11 after 0320 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD7ICN-11
[15:57] <fsphil> working on it
[15:57] <fsphil> not a serious effort, just playing
[15:58] <daveake> Just send position of horizon on left and right verticals; fill in the rest from a library photo :)
[15:58] <fsphil> hah
[15:58] <fsphil> lookup google earth, add atmosphere and latest satellite image overlay
[15:58] <daveake> hah
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[16:05] <dbrooke> a whole new meaning to cloud optimisation
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[16:15] <daveake> might need sound effects added to google earth
[16:15] <daveake> just to make that tree landing even more realistic
[16:16] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03CLOUD8 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CLOUD8
[16:16] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03CLOUD9 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CLOUD9
[16:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9UKT-3 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9UKT-3
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[17:15] <lz1dev> daveake: do have a pi2?
[17:25] <daveake> yup
[17:25] <lz1dev> any idea what tolerance is for power?
[17:25] <daveake> nope
[17:26] <daveake> let me know if I can be of any more help :)
[17:26] <lz1dev> i've got a 5.5v charger, but i think its probably too much
[17:27] <daveake> I would think that'd be just fine
[17:27] <daveake> Use a cheap cable and it'll drop 0.5V :/
[17:28] <mfa298> yay for "cable losses"
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[17:28] <lz1dev> wat
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[17:29] <mfa298> that's the standard ham response for when someone points out your tx/amp is putting out more power than the license allows
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[17:32] <lz1dev> yolo ill just power it off the router then
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[17:56] <lz1dev> .ping RAJ-3
[17:56] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Last contact with 03RAJ-3 was 032 hours ago
[17:56] <lz1dev> .track RAJ-3
[17:56] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Here you go - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RAJ-3
[17:57] <lz1dev> ,hysplit run raj-3
[17:58] <lz1dev> huh
[17:58] <lz1dev> .hysplit
[17:58] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: HYSPLIT available for: 03DK3SB-9, DL4MDW-11, K6RPT-12, UBSEDS9
[17:58] <lz1dev> ,hysplit run raj-3
[17:58] <lz1dev> ,hysplit add raj-3
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[18:41] <mcwoe> Hi,,, can I have a flight doc approved please ...
[18:41] <mcwoe> a7e64662e79d3804748c846eacc3e6f6
[18:41] <lz1dev> mcwoe: type /join #habhub
[18:44] <mcwoe> join #habhub
[18:45] <lz1dev> with / :)
[18:46] <SM0ULC> :)
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[18:48] <mickmondo> Hi .. sorry used wrong name.. can I have a flight doc approved please
[18:48] <mickmondo> a7e64662e79d3804748c846eacc3e6f6
[18:48] <jcoxon> mickmondo, best ask in #habhun
[18:48] <jcoxon> habhub sorry
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[18:56] <Ajax1215> Hi
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[19:06] <SM0ULC> mickmondo: and install a more suitable irc-client :) like http://www.kvirc.net/
[19:06] <SM0ULC> darn
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[19:21] <mclane_> does someone have an eagle pattern for the dorji drf1278 lora module?
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[20:59] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03TROUPYS after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TROUPYS
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[21:25] <amell> adamgreig: found your email to ukra& dealing with it now.
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[21:29] <adamgreig> thanks amell
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[21:42] sumie-dh (~sumie-dh@ip-86-49-183-12.net.upcbroadband.cz) left irc: Quit: = Huuurrrr durrrrr I'm gammalama
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[21:46] <gaz57bag> I think I need to read the manual signing off
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[21:56] <fsphil> there's a manual?
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[21:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Must dig it out again sometime, it might have changed
[22:00] <daveake> 404 - You're 'avin a laff
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[22:13] <Laurenceb_> any CAD guys here?
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> my mind has gone blank
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> I need to create a pizza/pie slice type solid
[22:13] <Laurenceb_> any ideas how i can do this?
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[22:22] <SpeedEvil> clinder, then cut it with two planes through the centre?
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[23:00] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
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[23:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KK6PNN-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6PNN-1
[00:00] --- Thu Aug 6 2015