highaltitude.log.20150804

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[07:22] <SM0ULC> morrn
[07:24] <fsphil> good morn'
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[08:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DF0HSA-3 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DF0HSA-3
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[10:07] <qyx_> are there any predictions for RAJ3?
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[10:46] <SA6BSS> qyx_: http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=f7d9855f4e17ff44e645c7e6227a73797b4ae01b
[10:48] <SA6BSS> you have to paste that in you broweser
[10:48] <SA6BSS> *your browser
[10:50] <TROUPY> Hey folks, where does hab'ing stand with insurance?
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[10:53] <UpuWork> "badly"
[10:53] <mattbrejza> if youre an individual anyway
[10:54] <UpuWork> the whole thought of your balloon getting sucked into a plane which then subsequently crashed on the M1 causing many claims for whip lash sends most insurers scurrying back under their rocks
[10:54] <mattbrejza> schools/unis/companies can just put it on their existing public liability insurance if you do a risk assessment
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[11:00] <TROUPY> Its just me and my son, never really thought about it before now. One of my launch sites is a Gliding Club and they have asked to make sure they would not be held responsible for any liability
[11:08] <russss> most people launch without insurance. IIRC there's never been a recorded incident with a weather balloon and a plane
[11:09] <fsphil> they don't often stay at the normal crusing altitudes for very long
[11:10] <fsphil> I'd like to think the notam would be enough
[11:11] <russss> I believe the met office has paid out on one or two radiosondes which cracked someone's conservatory glass or something, but that's one or two out of hundreds of thousands
[11:11] <SpeedEvil> The met-office launch 12(?) balloons a day
[11:11] <SpeedEvil> And as above
[11:11] <daveake> The vast, vast majority of claims on met office insurance are their own road accidents
[11:11] <adamgreig> they had more claims on their liability insurance from met office staff getting into road accidents
[11:11] <adamgreig> yea
[11:12] <fsphil> I bet that conservatory glass was already broken pre-landing :)
[11:12] <adamgreig> hah
[11:12] <daveake> yup me too
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> The release abou tthe glass looks very much like what fsphil said
[11:12] <adamgreig> however if someone is demanding you have insurance before you fly you're probably out of luck
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> The damage was rather too high
[11:12] <russss> fsphil: that would be my guess. IIRC those sondes are only 750grammes or something.
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> IIRC - 650 quid.
[11:12] <russss> and polystyrene
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> Even with an expensive glazier - that's a hell of a lot.
[11:13] <daveake> Maybe the glass killed someone's prize marrow
[11:14] <russss> incidentally, not sure if it's been mentioned here before, but my friend Mike did a teardown of one of those radiosondes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSxtwuTS5hw
[11:15] <daveake> How to land on glass without breaking it - http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/P1050268-e1346709067625-682x1024.jpg
[11:15] <daveake> and yes it was exactly like that when we arrived
[11:16] <LazyLeopard> Ah, yes. Was that the bear who forgot to jump?
[11:16] <russss> precision landing
[11:16] <SpeedEvil> I was surprised that when I stood on one of my solar panels (250W) - with my full weight - it did not break
[11:16] <SpeedEvil> It's only ~4mm glass I think
[11:16] <daveake> yeah, the cutdown was deafened by the nearby video cam
[11:18] <LazyLeopard> Right. :)
[11:19] <michal_f> do you think attaching some kind of radal reflector is worth the hassle when it comes to safety ?
[11:19] <michal_f> like this one: http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=00151
[11:20] <daveake> no
[11:21] <adamgreig> probably makes things less safe
[11:21] <adamgreig> though note, some countries require one? sometimes just for larger balloons
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> A light reflector won't make things less safe
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> Card and aluminium foil, for example
[11:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BUZZ14 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BUZZ14
[11:24] <daveake> CAA opinion is/was that it makes it less safe
[11:24] <daveake> But I don't know what materials they were assuming
[11:25] <fsphil> do the smaller ones even show up on radar?
[11:25] <adamgreig> even without materials, showing up on radar might cause things to take unnecessary action to avoid you too
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[11:38] <qyx_> SA6BSS: thanks, it should pass nearby
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[11:54] <LZ1NY> Hello!
[11:55] <DL7AD> hi
[11:56] <LZ1NY> I have a question about "genpayload" and how tracker shows location of the HAB....
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[11:56] <daveake> Then ask :)
[11:57] <LZ1NY> I am preparing short time time flight , foil balloon , 15 grams payload, NO GPS on board .... just a small CW and RTTY beacon
[11:58] <LZ1NY> And tracker.habhub.org ... shows my callsign ...somewhere near Bermuda...hi-hi,
[11:58] <LZ1NY> I do NOT include lat - lon in RTTY frame at all...
[11:59] <daveake> See https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[11:59] <LZ1NY> R
[11:59] <adamgreig> oh man, bermuda
[11:59] <daveake> Specifically https://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:location2.jpeg?id=guides%3Atracking_guide
[11:59] <DL7AD> :D
[11:59] <adamgreig> it should just now show a location lol
[12:00] <adamgreig> daveake: I doubt it's anything to do with that
[12:00] <daveake> So *your* position comes from the settings in dl-fldigi
[12:00] <adamgreig> LZ1NY: lat and long are 'required' fields
[12:01] <adamgreig> it's not meant to work without them really
[12:01] <adamgreig> once upon a time, one person had a payload without lat/long either
[12:01] <adamgreig> so the old website for viewing the balloons (before tracker.habhub.org) was specially coded to hide a specific coordinate near Bermuda
[12:01] <adamgreig> and those payloads got put there
[12:01] <daveake> :)
[12:02] <adamgreig> which I imagine is what is happening to you
[12:02] <russss> heh
[12:02] <daveake> I think your imagining is probably better than mine then
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[12:03] <adamgreig> LZ1NY: you may have missed what I just said, so I'll repeat it
[12:03] <adamgreig> 13:00:55 adamgreig> LZ1NY: lat and long are 'required' fields
[12:03] <adamgreig> 13:01:01 adamgreig> it's not meant to work without them really
[12:03] <adamgreig> 13:01:20 adamgreig> once upon a time, one person had a payload without lat/long either
[12:03] <adamgreig> 13:01:42 adamgreig> so the old website for viewing the balloons (before tracker.habhub.org) was specially coded to hide a specific coordinat
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[12:03] <adamgreig> near Bermuda
[12:03] <adamgreig> 13:01:49 adamgreig> and those payloads got put there
[12:04] <adamgreig> anyway assuming your balloon is LZ100AJ, that's what happened here
[12:04] <LZ1NY_> You mean lat/lon are required fields in packets send from HAB?
[12:04] <adamgreig> yes
[12:04] <adamgreig> basically
[12:04] <adamgreig> and you're only the second person to want to transmit without them
[12:05] <adamgreig> so it's quite rare
[12:05] <LZ1NY_> Yea, I see...
[12:05] <adamgreig> so I got my history slightly wrong: the previous payloads that had no location were specifically hidden by the old website, and placed in Bermuda to keep them from being accidentally clicked on (they were hidden wiht invisible icons, haha)
[12:06] <adamgreig> your one is not specifically hidden and so ends up in bermuda anyway ;)
[12:06] <adamgreig> not sure what to suggest really
[12:06] <adamgreig> lz1dev's thing really :P
[12:06] <LZ1NY_> What you recommeend? To place "static" coordinates .... lat/lon of start point?
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[12:06] <adamgreig> well that would work
[12:07] <adamgreig> ideally we could just accept messages with no coordinates but all the software assumes there will be some
[12:07] <LZ1NY_> :-)
[12:07] <daveake> kinda reasonable for a map
[12:07] <adamgreig> well
[12:07] <adamgreig> yes
[12:07] <adamgreig> but maybe not for HAB software
[12:08] <mfa298> I suspect map based tracker isn't really the right thing for something with no coordinates.
[12:08] <adamgreig> indeed, but the distributed listener network and habitat database could be fine
[12:08] <daveake> sure
[12:08] <adamgreig> and the map has charts for the other telemetry
[12:08] <LZ1NY_> OK, during next flight will plan few more liter Helium and GPS :-)
[12:09] <mfa298> in someways sticking them at bermuda makes some sense, and seperates them from people with bad code who appear at 0.00,0.00
[12:09] <adamgreig> that was pretty much the thought
[12:10] <adamgreig> bit funnier maybe
[12:11] <LZ1NY_> OK, I really expected to "find" LZ100Aj in 0/0 deg
[12:13] <LZ1NY_> Last questin - Did I disturb something/someone with "no-coordinates" flight ?
[12:13] <adamgreig> no no, it's fine
[12:15] <LZ1NY_> Thanks to all for answers and suggestions, 73!
[12:15] <adamgreig> 73
[12:15] <adamgreig> maybe we should update the thing to put 0,0 instead of bermuda, lol
[12:16] <LZ1NY_> BTW I have never been in Bermuda, why not our HAB to visit such a place? :-)
[12:16] <adamgreig> I went there once! I did not see any HABs though
[12:18] <LZ1NY_> Oooo, Adam ...LZ100AJ was born a month ago. This is a special callsign in memoriam of Bulgarian inventor, aviator Assen Jordanov, who made first bulgarian airplane 100 years ago
[12:19] <adamgreig> ah very nice!
[12:19] <adamgreig> probably for the best it isn't actually missing in the bermuda triangle then!
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[14:10] <Troupy> hi all, by notifying CAA and obtaining approval do they then issue the NOTAM or does the person launching still need to do this?
[14:10] <UpuWork> they issue with a NOTAM
[14:11] <UpuWork> if you haven't recieved anything you haven't got permission
[14:11] <UpuWork> its usually a PDF
[14:12] <Troupy> Thanks
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[14:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0RPI/T_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0RPI%2FT_chase
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[15:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Anybody recommend a good GitHub tutorial ?
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[15:31] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DK3SB-9 after 0320 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK3SB-9
[15:39] <lz1dev> .hysplit
[15:39] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: HYSPLIT available for: 03DL4MDW-11, K6RPT-12, M0SBU-11, PS-46, SP3OSJ-12, UBSEDS9
[15:39] <lz1dev> .hysplit defaults
[15:39] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: HYSPLIT defaults: 03aeth%, ps-%, atsat-%, venus1-3, k6rpt-%, sp9uob-11, m2, edupicdx2, d-7, k6rpt-11, sp3osj, sp9uob-12, sp9uob, lardy-pico, ubseds8, eggdx, dl7as-11, dl7ad-11, dk3sb-8, sp3osj-12, ubseds9, m0sbu-11, dl4mdw-11
[15:39] <lz1dev> jesus
[15:40] <lz1dev> .hysplit add DK3SB-9
[15:40] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Added 03DK3SB-9 to defaults
[15:40] <lz1dev> .hysplit run DK3SB-9
[15:40] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Your job has been added to the queue. Check in a few minutes
[15:57] Nick change: michal_f -> michal_f_AFK2
[15:59] <thasti> yeho :)
[16:12] <thasti> long live APRS
[16:14] <fsphil> hope not :)
[16:14] <fsphil> at least, not in its current form
[16:14] <daveake> Well there's one in orbit that may live for a while ...
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[16:24] <lz1dev> :[
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[16:31] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PYSY after 0321 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PYSY
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[17:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PD4KDZ_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PD4KDZ_chase
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[17:10] <thasti> lz1dev: backlog works flawless now - cool feature :)
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[17:22] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB1SAR-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB1SAR-11
[17:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD7ICN-11 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD7ICN-11
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[18:11] <SM0ULC> fsphil: where's the best forum around APRS? devstuff etc..
[18:13] <fsphil> not sure, never really found one
[18:14] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[18:14] <SM0ULC> me neither
[18:14] <fsphil> didn't spend more time researching it than necessary :)
[18:14] <fsphil> I'm not a fan
[18:15] <lz1dev> i doubt it even exists
[18:15] <SM0ULC> I'm a fan of distributed positioning systems, but APRS.. well..
[18:16] <lz1dev> i wouldn't call aprs distributed
[18:19] <SM0ULC> i would, but not a very god one.. :)
[18:20] <lz1dev> there is no coordination between nodes, its a network
[18:20] <SM0ULC> with IoT it should be incentive to revise transportlayers and upwards..
[18:21] <lz1dev> after speaking with some APRS people
[18:21] <lz1dev> i seriously doubt that
[18:23] <SM0ULC> mm
[18:24] <SM0ULC> being a Swede I'm a bit a fan of STDMA :)
[18:26] <lz1dev> that would require infrastructure
[18:27] <lz1dev> actually, STDMA shouldn't
[18:27] <lz1dev> doesn't AIS use that?
[18:28] <lz1dev> yeah..
[18:32] <SM0ULC> it requieres gps
[18:32] <SM0ULC> or a clock
[18:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03CLOUD9 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CLOUD9
[18:37] <lz1dev> they already threw
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[18:38] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03CLOUD8 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CLOUD8
[18:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VORTEX8 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VORTEX8
[18:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0RPI_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0RPI_chase
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[18:50] <thasti1> lz1dev: do you have suggestions which telemetry-sequence-id I should transmit in the backlog-frames? aprs.fi seems to have problems when it's simply increasing.. i thought of either "zero" or repeating the last current-position-sequence-id..
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[19:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VORTEX4 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VORTEX4
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[19:17] <lz1dev> thasti1: the tracker aprs gate way ignores the sequence id
[19:17] <lz1dev> aprs.fi will ignore packets that have an older timestamp, or move too quikc
[19:18] <lz1dev> it should work with simply increasing
[19:19] <thasti> well .. it seems not to (or at least not fully)
[19:19] <lz1dev> backlog frames should have whatever id, they had when you tramitted i guess, but eventually it will overflow
[19:19] <lz1dev> but the packets should be ignored anyway
[19:20] <lz1dev> if you are trying to get backlog to work on aprs.fi
[19:20] <lz1dev> you probably can't
[19:21] <thasti> what happens atm is: it says it ignores the backlog packet, because timestamp is too old, but it also seems to update the "latest postion" internally to the backlog position, because it ignores the following current-position-packet as well (reason: [Location changes too fast (adaptive limit)])
[19:21] <thasti> and it screws up the telemetry graphs on aprs.fi as well
[19:21] <lz1dev> :DDDDDDD
[19:22] <thasti> i'm not even trying to get backlog working there, heikki told me it won't work, but i would at least like to have the latest current position on aprs.fi for other hams to see
[19:22] <thasti> because you can probably imagine what happens as soon as backlog is full and the tracker alternatingly transmits one backlog- and one real-time fix
[19:23] <qyx_> lol
[19:23] <thasti> indeed
[19:24] <thasti> i read -somewhere- that aprs.fi also looks at the tlm sequence id to identify late packets, but i don't know how (if) any corellation to the timestamp check is implemented
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[19:28] <thasti> i will change the ID to 0 on backlog packets and will see how it goes, maybe the packets then fail both checks and are properly ignored ...
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[20:12] <Babs_> Bonjour spacemen
[20:14] <Upu> nearspacemen
[20:16] <Babs_> Upu - that was a put down worthy of eroomde
[20:16] <Upu> I know he's rubbing off
[20:17] <Babs_> I read that completely the wrong way
[20:17] <Upu> lol
[20:17] <Babs_> Am excited about the conf. It is over 2 years since I achieved Peak Nerd and met Arko on my honeymoon.
[20:19] <Babs_> Didn't know whether to bring Stabilotron-II work in progress along. It's getting relatively advanced now.
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[20:19] <PaulChandler> Hi
[20:19] <PaulChandler> Anyone know how to set DL-FLDIGI to Online mode?
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[20:19] <Babs_> advanced in terms of progress anyway, not advanced per se
[20:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> Click the DL Client menu, then tick Online ? or use the shortcut for it
[20:22] <PaulChandler> We cant find the "DL Client" menu??
[20:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> What version and OS are you using ?
[20:23] <PaulChandler> we're running FLDIGI 3.22.13
[20:23] <PaulChandler> on Winodws 8
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[20:24] <michal_f_AFK> To test my tracker on habitat, I need to create a payload doc there: http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/ and ask for approal here
[20:24] <michal_f_AFK> is that correct ?
[20:24] Nick change: michal_f_AFK -> michal_f
[20:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Wrong version you need 3.21.50 use this link for it https://github.com/ukhas/dl-fldigi/releases/download/DL3.1/dl-fldigi-DL3.1-windows-2abd6a7.exe
[20:24] <mfa298> PaulChandler: you might have the wrong things, you want dl-fldifi which has some additions for habtracking
[20:24] <craag> PaulChandler: You've got vanilla fldigi, not our customised HAB version.
[20:25] <PaulChandler> yep sorry. One of us had the right one, the other had the vanilla one
[20:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> michal_f, Not quite create the payload and do your testing, and then when ready create a Flight Doc which references the payload(s) and get that authorised
[20:28] <michal_f> Geoff-G8DHE, but I'm not ready to fly yet :). I'm doing software testing right now and I'd like to see it shows on map
[20:29] <michal_f> I have not interfaced with habitat before
[20:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> Just create the Payload document then, and check its being recognised in the logtail facility http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/ it will show on the map
[20:30] <michal_f> ok - do I need to get it approved here ? Or just flight docs need approval ?
[20:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> No payload doesn't need approval
[20:31] <michal_f> ty
[20:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SMI_PITS - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SMI_PITS
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[20:34] <PeteA> My bad. Fixed and we're on the map :)
[20:34] <PeteA> Thanks
[20:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> nps
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[20:37] <michal_f> ok, I created a payload doc, but no trace of it in logs :/
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[20:38] <daveake> It will be in logatil regardless of a payload doc, if you're uploading
[20:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> which callsign are you using michal_f ?
[20:38] <michal_f> ARY1-test
[20:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nothing appearing in the Logtail, are you sure dl-fldigi is uploading ?
[20:40] <michal_f> not yeet - I expected to see smth. in logs just after doc creation. I'll try to run fldigi now
[20:40] <daveake> logtail is a log of uploads
[20:40] <daveake> So you have to upload telemetry
[20:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> hopefully you will run DL-fldigi not fldigi .....
[20:43] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ARY1-Test - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ARY1-Test
[20:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> There you go
[20:43] <michal_f> :]
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[21:53] <michal_f> http://ssdv.habhub.org/ is it possible to filter images by callsign ?
[21:54] <craag> michal_f: http://ssdv.habhub.org/CALLSIGN/ I believe
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[21:59] <michal_f> WORKS WITHOUT THE TRAILING SLASH
[21:59] <michal_f> sorry for caps
[22:00] <craag> ah yeah
[22:00] <craag> :)
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[23:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LDC-HN13LTE_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LDC-HN13LTE_chase
[00:00] --- Wed Aug 5 2015