highaltitude.log.20150803

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[00:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03sukir_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=sukir_chase
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[09:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BUZZ - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BUZZ
[09:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CLOUD9 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CLOUD9
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[09:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CLOUD8 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CLOUD8
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[11:14] <Steve> Anybody awake in here?
[11:14] <thasti1> yep
[11:15] <Steve> I was directed here by somebody in the Amsat North America facebook group.. Am I in the right place? :D
[11:15] <thasti1> depends on what you want to do :D
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[11:16] <Steve> Hoping to in the near-distant future do a balloon-sat launch..
[11:16] <thasti1> should be the right place then
[11:16] <Steve> I'm working on a ground-up satellite build, still a ways from picking up an actual Radiometrix SDR though
[11:17] <RealBorg> Steffanx, balloon-sat? what altitude are you planning?
[11:17] <Steve> Right now im sorting out the ins and outs using an Xbee and Arduino
[11:17] <Steve> I'm not planning an altitude at the moment lol
[11:17] <Steve> Still working on a ground test rig
[11:18] <Steve> So far I've build my own Arduino board and successfully talked to myself over a set of Xbees
[11:19] <Steve> Next I've got to figure out how to tell the board to send me telemetry and to be quiet when I don't want telemetry :)
[11:20] <thasti1> xbee might not be the most prominent way for telemetry downlink, you may need as many receivers in the world as you can
[11:20] <thasti1> did you have a look at the RTTY and/or APRS telemetry systems?
[11:20] <Steve> Yes, that's going to be figured out once I start sending ham bits
[11:21] <Steve> Haven't even heard of either of those yet to be honest
[11:21] <Steve> Still have heaps of research to do I know
[11:21] <thasti1> no problems, ukhas.org.uk is a big and high quality resource
[11:22] <daveake> and highly organised
[11:22] <Steve> I'm not planning to send an Xbee up, even if NASA is.. I've already been told they tend to be buggy
[11:22] <daveake> </lie_mode>
[11:22] <Steve> lol
[11:22] <Steve> Science always comes at the cost of some disorganization, it's to be expected
[11:23] <Laurenceb> theres also the question of range
[11:23] <thasti1> jup
[11:23] <Laurenceb> I'd be tempted to send a spirit1 up
[11:24] <Laurenceb> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/rf-if-and-rfid/rf-evaluation-and-development-kits-boards/3539644?k=spirit1
[11:24] <Steve> I was looking at a project by a guy in UK of a baloon-sat he homebrewed with an ATmega328P, Radiometrix radio, GPS etc and was able to get his local ham/sat community to help track it
[11:24] <Steve> ultimately that's something I would like to do
[11:24] <Laurenceb> hm....
[11:24] <Laurenceb> that sounds pretty standard apart from the last part
[11:24] <Steve> And then, of-course.. put one in space. But that's the easy part right? :D
[11:25] <Steve> BRB..
[11:25] <thasti1> what's "space" for you?
[11:25] <Laurenceb> well I honestly think UKHAS needs its own cubesat
[11:25] <Laurenceb> I'd be willing to kickstarter a few k
[11:25] <thasti1> it sure does
[11:25] <mattbrejza> do you want to do a balloon project or a satelite project..?
[11:25] <thasti1> i would be in for development as well :p
[11:25] <Laurenceb> both :P
[11:26] <Laurenceb> with a store and forward cubesat we could solve the long range comms problem
[11:26] <mattbrejza> since a balloon-sat is like saying yuo wnt to do a plane-submarine
[11:26] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:26] <thasti1> :D
[11:32] <RealBorg> we've never had a plane submarine but we had plenty of flying boats
[11:36] <RealBorg> ditching a plane that day: routine; ditching a plane today: catastrophe
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[11:37] <RealBorg> there even was a big commercial flying boat which went out of fuel and had to spend a night floating on the ocean - everyone survived
[11:37] <Steve> Anything that classifies as permanent earth orbit.
[11:38] <Steve> looks like my client isn't scrolling as people type
[11:38] <Steve> I want to start out with a balloon launch to make sure everything is working the way it needs to before going to an actual satellite
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[11:39] <Steve> Obviously getting anything into low earth orbit isn't going to be cheap so I need to make sure I get it right the first time
[11:40] <RealBorg> Steve, so he's planning on a rocket launch later?
[11:41] <Steve> I'm planning to hitch a ride on somebody else's rocket
[11:41] <RealBorg> that's what I meant
[11:42] <Steve> right, but after im out of the ground testing phase i'll want to test my rig with a high altitude balloon
[11:42] <Steve> not even to ground testing yet, which is why right now I'm just messing around with a pair of Xbee radios. Basic, low power, short range..
[11:43] <mattbrejza> oh right, a balloon tested satellite
[11:44] <Steve> So if I put something up, that's got an altimeter and a GPS the position of the rig can be downlinked to ground stations, people that are dedicated to tracking
[11:45] <craag> Steve: Where are you located?
[11:45] <craag> (country-wise)
[11:45] <Steve> Washington state, USA
[11:45] <craag> And do you have a ham license, or does someone else who is in the project?
[11:47] <Steve> I am the project, and no I don't have an operator's license yet.
[11:48] <craag> Ok, so there's 2 systems we commonly use, 434MHz RTTY for places where airborne APRS is illegal (such as the UK). However I believe you'd still need a license for that in the USA.
[11:48] <craag> And Airborne APRS, on 144MHz Ham band.
[11:49] <craag> Most USA flights use the APRS, as it uses existing receiver infrastructure country-wide
[11:49] <craag> you can see what's near you on http://aprs.fi/
[11:49] <Steve> Yes, I know I'll need a license, and will definitely contact the FAA before I potentially put any debris in a flight path
[11:49] <craag> Ok, this is seperate from the FAA stuff. This is for the radio downlink only.
[11:50] <Steve> Yes
[11:50] <Steve> Anything I broadcast has to be licensed
[11:51] <Steve> can't transmit data over CB band either, I already checked into that
[11:51] <Steve> But I read that you can in parts of UK
[11:51] <craag> careful about the term 'broadcast', 'broadcasting' is explicitly illegal under the ham radio license ;)
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[11:52] <Steve> sorry *transmit* :)
[11:52] <craag> :)
[11:52] <craag> So I recommend you do some googling for 'aprs hab' to see what other people have done
[11:52] <craag> And look at the ukhas.org.uk wiki for general balloon stuff
[11:53] <craag> ukhas.org.uk doesn't have much on aprs, as we don't use it much in europe.
[11:54] <Steve> This is what I've been looking at lately and seems like it would be super easy to build.. http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-High-Altitude-Balloon-Tracker-Arduino/
[11:54] <craag> That's a textbook RTTY tracker :)
[11:54] <Steve> I've been building robots from my hand-made arduino boards so putting different sensors and a different radio on it shouldn't be too tough
[11:55] <craag> Generating APRS on the micro can be a bit more cmplicated
[11:55] <craag> Plenty of people have done it on the 328P though
[11:56] <craag> So... carry on as you were, and just ask here when you have questions :D
[11:56] <Steve> Where would I go to find locals building balloon rigs?
[11:57] <craag> Your local ham radio club might have some people doing it, or know of some
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[11:59] <Steve> So I'll just have to find my local ham radio club :)
[11:59] <daveake> Just launch APRS with the wrong settings, and they'll find you :p
[12:00] <Steve> haha
[12:01] <Steve> I'd rather not be found by doing something naughty, then you keep that same reputation as you go along
[12:01] <Steve> people remember that one thing you did that was monumentally stupid
[12:02] <LazyLeopard> Indeed...
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[12:04] <LazyLeopard> ...but finding clubs in the US shouldn't be that difficult. The ARRL may have an index.
[12:06] <Steve> as I mentioned earlier I've joined an Amsat group on facebook too so I should be able to find people close by
[12:06] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[12:06] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, that'll work too...
[12:09] <Steve> I just need more time to research everything, and to finish reading these books I picked up
[12:10] <Steve> Is anybody here familiar with Project Calliope?
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[12:29] <Steve> So I guess that's a no lol
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[12:45] <mfa298> Reading back a bit, people here are generally forgiving of you making mistakes along the way, it's the people that ignore advice "because they know better" or the people consistently making the same mistakes who get remembered.
[12:45] <Steve> Well the more research I do, the more I realize I don't know
[12:46] <Steve> which is why I want to make sure I have everything right and go through the proper channels
[12:46] <mfa298> you're on the right track so far. Coming here and asking questions is a good move.
[12:47] <mfa298> I would generally suggest the only silly questions are the ones that don't get asked (that then lead to silly mistakes)
[12:50] <Steve> "Satellites" are relatively new things to civilian hands, so I'm trying to be careful with that. I want amateur space exploration to be an affordable hobby, but if too many people mishandle it, it will ruin things for everybody
[12:50] <Steve> Still have to rely largely on space agencies to get something into orbit, hydrazine isn't cheap etc
[12:53] <Steve> Hopefully some day there's a GPS unit that can be used in orbit, legally..
[12:54] <craag> There are... they just cost a whack
[12:54] <mfa298> you could always look at building your own.
[12:54] <Steve> Yeah I have looked into that
[12:55] <mfa298> see https://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2013 apparently Ed's talks are good
[12:55] Action: mfa298 still hasn't gotten around to watching them
[12:55] <Steve> the problem is even if you build your own, as soon as department of defense finds out you have it in low earth orbit, they call it a guidance system and you go away
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[13:07] <Steve> I've got to take off, day shift guys arriving onsite now. ttyl
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[13:19] <daveake> burst
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[15:15] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:14] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03CLOUD8 after 037 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CLOUD8
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[17:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03GAS-4 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GAS-4
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[18:23] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BUZZ after 039 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BUZZ
[18:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BUZZ14 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BUZZ14
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[18:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PYSY after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PYSY
[18:46] Nick change: lz1dev_ -> lz1dev
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[18:54] <fsphil> it's that time of the year again
[18:54] <fsphil> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=6873c267770dea049f28afdb2bb5eb01b46dcd54
[18:55] <fsphil> we need high altitude foil floaters :)
[18:59] <qyx_> leo to the rescue
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[19:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DK3SB-9 after 036 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK3SB-9
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[20:08] <fsphil> weather balloons on bbc four atm
[20:10] <daveake> ta
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[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[20:15] <fsphil> mostly about met balloons, but there was a brief gopro clip
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> nice!
[20:20] <mclane_> Hey guys - in yesterdays PYSY flight we had some problems decoding the RTTY part of the telegram (LoRa worked fine):
[20:21] <mclane_> two problems: significant drift (200 Hz) of the carries when switching on (Tx was off in between telegrams, only bips)
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[20:21] <mclane_> unability of dl-fldigi to lock on the first "$" signs
[20:22] <fsphil> yea that can happen
[20:22] <fsphil> padding the string with some nulls before the $ will help
[20:22] <mclane_> any ideas what can be done?
[20:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup one of my moans, needs added padding at the start
[20:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> to let the Tx warm up and for dl-fldigi to lock on and adjust for frequency drift
[20:23] <mclane_> with nulls you mean ascii 0x00 I asume
[20:23] <fsphil> yes
[20:23] <mclane_> ok, will try that
[20:23] <fsphil> it helps fldigi sync to the correct start bit
[20:23] <mclane_> has someone replaced the quartz on the RFM98
[20:24] <fsphil> two or three should be enough
[20:24] <fsphil> you could also repeat the string immediatly, with no gap
[20:24] <mattbrejza> do you power cycle the rfm98? (or just leave it tx all the time)
[20:25] <mclane_> yes, I switch to standby mode in between to save energy
[20:25] <mattbrejza> yea, ive found switching to rx after tx for a few secs can cause drift too
[20:26] <mclane_> (using one single AAA cell)
[20:27] <mattbrejza> i made mine for up/down flights so didnt bother with power saving
[20:27] <mclane_> just tried the NULLs that really seem to help!!
[20:28] <mclane_> yes, it is an up-down flight, but we currently use a small Pawan 100g with a low ascent rate to reach highest possible altitudes
[20:28] <daveake> I had one RFM98 that drifted way more than others when switched to Tx
[20:28] <mclane_> so we need > 6 h runtime
[20:28] <fsphil> I've an old payload with an rfm22b. must get rid of that
[20:29] <daveake> My old plug 'n' pava has one
[20:29] <daveake> Flown loads of times never missed a beat
[20:29] <daveake> Others get giddy when flown
[20:32] <michal_f> those 0x00... good to know, I'm putting the code for telemetry sentence atm. I'm lucky today
[20:32] <mclane_> the 100g Pawan was really astonishing: we reached 30 700 m
[20:33] <fsphil> the ideal would be to transmit continously
[20:33] <mclane_> I have inserted 4 and that really helps
[20:33] <mclane_> 4x 0x00 I mean
[20:34] <michal_f> If I want to write GPS time as int, does it look like this: 203446 ?
[20:35] <michal_f> or do I need somee other formatting
[20:35] <mclane_> for upload to habitat it needs to be hh:mm:ss
[20:35] <craag> michal_f: that's fine
[20:36] <craag> hhmmss also works
[20:36] <mclane_> ah ok, did not know
[20:36] <michal_f> ty
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> hello eurocraag :)
[20:37] <craag> Hi Lunar_Lander
[20:37] <craag> euro?
[20:38] <michal_f> daveake, what's the trick to write a config file into /boot in raspi ? Like it's done with PITS
[20:38] <michal_f> I'm getting permissions errors
[20:38] <fsphil> sudo
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:38] <daveake> sudo "do what I want"
[20:38] <michal_f> I am sudo :)
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> yea for europe craag :)
[20:39] <craag> who's europe craag?
[20:39] <michal_f> I created file but can;t write to it
[20:39] <craag> michal_f: what commands are you using?
[20:39] <michal_f> sudo cat xxx > ./ary-1.cfg
[20:40] <fsphil> your > bit is not sudo'ed
[20:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03TROUPYS after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TROUPYS
[20:40] <craag> that won't work as it only applies sudo to 'cat'
[20:40] <craag> not anything after it
[20:40] <michal_f> sudo nano ./ary-1.cfg wont work either
[20:40] <fsphil> quotes might work. sudo "cat blah > /aarg"
[20:41] <fsphil> not tested it
[20:41] <pid> sudo nano ./ary-1.cfg will wirk
[20:41] <pid> *work
[20:41] <daveake> quotes not needed
[20:42] <daveake> sorry ignore me just read back
[20:42] <michal_f> It worked now... I suspect sd cart corruption
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> ah I meant I said it with "euro" to praise europe :P
[20:42] <michal_f> I've seen similar like this vefore
[20:43] <fsphil> I had an SD card fail suddenly a few days ago. never seen that happen before
[20:43] <michal_f> Actually I had several cdCards failures
[20:43] <fsphil> worked fine for 10 minutes then suddently had a load of bad sectors
[20:43] <michal_f> mostly after power unplugged
[20:44] <bertrik> I have a microSD card that now only gets very very hot when inserted into a reader
[20:44] <michal_f> weird
[20:45] <michal_f> I did my first field test this weekend. Pyload hanging from a tree, 3m above ground and I was driving around with some no-name roof antenna
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[20:45] <michal_f> I was able to decode from 4.5km - good or bad result ?
[20:46] <fsphil> sounds good to me
[20:46] <michal_f> radio was ntx2b, 300 baud
[20:46] <mclane_> sounds ok
[20:46] <fsphil> you must be in a nice flat area
[20:46] <michal_f> I am
[20:47] <michal_f> but actually I had to stop the car to decode successfuly
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[20:47] <mclane_> should work also while driving
[20:48] <mclane_> (not always but mostly)
[20:48] <craag> well with trees and buildings in the way you're going to get corrupted bits
[20:48] <michal_f> maybe that's my inexperience
[20:48] <craag> which rtty can't recover from
[20:49] <craag> you won't have that problem once it's above the buildings and trees :)
[20:49] <michal_f> but then again I will when it comes down :]
[20:49] <fsphil> only in the last few minutes, if you're close enough
[20:49] <fsphil> should be enough data to get you closer
[20:50] <fsphil> it can disappear very quickly at the end
[20:50] <craag> we had to stop to get a decode from 'CHRISHAB' at the weekend from a couple of hundred meters away
[20:50] <craag> I moved the car back and forth til it was strongest and then had to wait a couple of strings to upload one
[20:51] <fsphil> many points for someone to track using quadcopter with lora/ukhas relay
[20:51] <craag> we had a recovery quadcopter
[20:51] <craag> was flown over the cornfield to try to spot the payload
[20:51] <fsphil> ah sweet
[20:51] <fsphil> fpv?
[20:51] <craag> but fpv chose that moment to not work :/
[20:52] <fsphil> d'oh
[20:52] <craag> he's gonna review the gopro footage and see if he could have seen it though
[20:53] <craag> at that point we had fixes from both trackers, so knew where it was, but he'd brought it along, so might as well use it :)
[20:53] <craag> plus sun, lack of rain, warm day, etc
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[20:53] <craag> :D
[20:53] <PaulChandler> Hi
[20:53] <craag> yo PaulChandler
[20:53] <fsphil> absolutly :)
[20:53] <fsphil> +e
[20:53] <PaulChandler> Just popped onto ask a quick question
[20:54] <fsphil> evening PaulChandler
[20:54] <PaulChandler> :)
[20:54] <PaulChandler> Is there somewhere where upcoming HAB launches are listed?
[20:54] <PaulChandler> Found a link but content was old
[20:54] <fsphil> the ukhas mailing list is the best bet
[20:55] <fsphil> they're often announced there before (or shortly after) launch
[20:55] <fsphil> !wiki mailing list
[20:55] <SpacenearUS> 03fsphil: Wiki page 03mailing_list (ukhas) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:mailing_list
[20:56] <PaulChandler> Great thanks. I'm sure I went to that link or similar and it only had a few old posts. Anyway, thanks
[20:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yopu need to take the link from that page to the mailing list
[20:58] <PaulChandler> Yep got it. Cheers
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[21:21] <TROUPY> Hi all, looking for some windows/terminal/open source fldigi advice
[21:22] <TROUPY> I am trying basic click on file, download and install but my windows PC is not loading the hab version of fl digi
[21:22] <TROUPY> I ca get full version but not sure how to configure to then upload telemetry
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[21:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> Are you getting it from here https://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi
[21:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> specifically https://github.com/ukhas/dl-fldigi/releases/download/DL3.1/dl-fldigi-DL3.1-windows-2abd6a7.exe
[21:31] <TROUPY> yes but it says 3.21.50 and says fast light digital modem has stopped working before it opens :_(
[21:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> thats the right version then
[21:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> what version of windows, not that I've heard of any problems ?
[21:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> have you read the Trobleshooting para at the end of the page ?
[21:34] <TROUPY> wanted to try using open source to download, chat says less problems using that method but struggling with the open source bit
[21:36] <fsphil> not sure what that means?
[21:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes but have you read the Troubleshooting bit at the end of the page ?
[21:36] <mfa298> reading scrollback: for reference writing files as root with sudo variations on the following are good
[21:36] <mfa298> cat "stuff" | sudo tee /boot/file
[21:37] <mfa298> otherwise learn to do interesting things with "sed -i ..."
[21:46] <TROUPY> Thanks Geoff!! Tried that before but no joy, tried it again and its working!!
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[21:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Excellent!
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[00:00] --- Tue Aug 4 2015