highaltitude.log.20150723

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[01:09] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP3OSJ-12 after 0316 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP3OSJ-12
[01:18] <_charlie> not heard from ps46 in a while...
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[04:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N8CALL-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N8CALL-11
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[06:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03kd7vlb2_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=kd7vlb2_chase
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[07:29] <Oddstr13> is there a comparison matrix of SDR receivers anywhere?
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[07:48] <dl3yc> Oddstr13: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software-defined_radios
[07:49] <Oddstr13> must've chosen the wrong search words, thanks
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[07:54] <PE2BZ> !flights
[07:54] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03144.7MHz RTTY100bd/450/7n2 10(0f06)
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[08:12] <Oddstr13> as far as I can see, HackRF is the best one for general purpose stuff, for the price
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[08:52] <fsphil> that was my conclusion too
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[09:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[10:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0RPI_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0RPI_chase
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[10:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LORA1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LORA1
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[10:51] <garymortimer> Is Dave flying today?
[10:52] <garymortimer> OH I see he is on his website
[10:52] <daveake> Saturday
[10:53] <garymortimer> oh ok thanks
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[11:21] <PE2BZ> !flights
[11:21] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03144.7MHz RTTY100bd/450/7n2 10(0f06)
[11:21] <PE2BZ> !payload lora1
[11:21] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
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[11:22] <daveake> Not a flight
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[11:23] <daveake> Just working on the chase-car LoRa stuff
[11:24] <mattbrejza> !track ps-46
[11:24] <SpacenearUS> 03mattbrejza: Here you go - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ps-46
[11:24] <mattbrejza> :(
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[11:29] <michal_f> hi
[11:33] <michal_f> Can someone explain smth to me? I wired an antenna following this: https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payload_antenna ...
[11:34] <michal_f> and I tested and trimmed it to length using this: http://www.rtl-sdr.com/rtl-sdr-tutorial-measuring-filter-characteristics-and-antenna-vswr-with-an-rtl-sdr-and-noise-source/ as a guide
[11:35] <michal_f> and it ended up being 15cm long (instead of expected 16.4) - this is for 434.650 MHz
[11:35] <michal_f> where does the difference come from ?
[11:35] <mattbrejza> what was around the atenna when you did this?
[11:36] <michal_f> keyboard, monitor, computer...
[11:36] <michal_f> hmm...
[11:36] <mattbrejza> was it sat on the desk?
[11:36] <michal_f> yes
[11:36] <mattbrejza> ideally you should have teh atenna hanging in free space
[11:37] <mattbrejza> ive spend a while raging with a SWR meter trying to tune a circularly polerized antenna before
[11:38] <michal_f> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_8ipK0TpiuhenZXYm5rLW4yWTQ/view?usp=sharing
[11:38] <michal_f> looks like this now
[11:38] <mattbrejza> is that S11?
[11:39] <michal_f> what is S11 ?
[11:39] <mattbrejza> reflected power
[11:39] <michal_f> yes
[11:39] <mattbrejza> seems pretty good
[11:40] <michal_f> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_8ipK0TpiuhZ0hGWHg3SzM5V2M/view?usp=sharing - this is before cutting, I don't remember exact length, like ~17cm
[11:40] <mattbrejza> im sure in the end your 15cm will have no notiable difference to an identical antenna of 16.4cm
[11:40] <mattbrejza> thats still not terrible
[11:41] <fsphil> a noise source would be a handy thing
[11:41] <mattbrejza> also i think the 16.4cm measurement is assuming the radials are bent back at 45 degrees
[11:41] <mattbrejza> fsphil: could always use a small child and a ssb modulator
[11:41] <daveake> and a 100db attenuator
[11:42] <mattbrejza> lol
[11:42] <fsphil> small children are only good up to about 10khz sadly
[11:42] <daveake> old people can't hear above that
[11:42] <daveake> Maybe some relation there
[11:43] <michal_f> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_8ipK0TpiuhdUc3LXAzNW1tb00/view?usp=sharing - this was my setup
[11:43] <michal_f> I used this cheap noise-gen from sdr-rtl tutorial
[11:44] <mattbrejza> its hard to say if stuff around it might have affected the tuning
[11:44] <michal_f> how important is length of radials ?
[11:44] <mattbrejza> but perhaps 15cm is the right length if the radials are not bent back
[11:44] <michal_f> I didn't observe much change when trimming then
[11:44] <mattbrejza> i dont think theyre as important
[11:44] <mattbrejza> seeing as they approximate a ground plane
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[11:45] <Herman_> !flights
[11:45] <SpacenearUS> 03Herman_: Current flights: 03144.7MHz RTTY100bd/450/7n2 10(0f06)
[11:45] <michal_f> I'll measure again today further away from other gear
[11:46] <mattbrejza> see if it changes if you put your hand near it
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[11:48] <Ian_> FWIW the angle of the radials shouldn't materially affect the frequency, but the impedance matching sure. The radial lengths are ideally a minimum of the quarter wave length. Shorter will start to progressively incur losses,
[11:50] <michal_f> its longer now
[11:50] <michal_f> thx for tips !
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[12:27] Action: infaddic_ better start revising for the foundation licence!
[12:28] Nick change: infaddic_ -> infaddict
[12:28] <mattbrejza> 'revising'
[12:31] <fsphil> doing it at ukhas?
[12:31] <daveake> You onl;y need to be able to spell your name
[12:31] <daveake> > infaddic_
[12:31] <daveake> oh
[12:31] <daveake> :)
[12:31] <infaddict> hehe
[12:31] <infaddict> yes fsphil
[12:32] <infaddict> quite interesting so far
[12:34] <infaddict> the theory is one thing, but havent got any practical TX experience since RYA VHF back in the 90's ;-)
[12:34] <craag> infaddict: You'll have an email this evening about starting sorting the paperwork, also a poke to get on with some past papers and stuff ;)
[12:34] <infaddict> cheers craag. had the recommended booklet for a while and already been through it once. now starting it again making notes.
[12:35] <craag> good to hear :)
[12:35] <russss> hamtests.co.uk is pretty good for mock tests
[12:35] <infaddict> mostly do it on the train when I'm supposed to be working haha
[12:35] <infaddict> ooh thx russss will check that out
[12:36] <craag> yep hamtests, then there's a couple of rsgb mock papers, but I usually advise leaving those til last as they're the most similar to the actual papers
[12:37] <russss> foundation is pretty simple, and I think if you have a reasonable electronics background you really only have to concentrate on the licence/procedure stuff.
[12:39] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
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[12:44] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-12 after 0312 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-12
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[12:47] <fsphil> circling the US
[12:54] <Herman_> the Lora will still fly today ??
[12:55] <daveake> No, Saturday
[12:55] <daveake> as per my post on the mailing list :)
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[12:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> I take it those changes on GIT are for the v2.3 board Dave ?
[12:56] <daveake> The default are but it will work with any board if the settings are put into the config file
[12:56] <Herman_> daveake: ok tnx info
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[12:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is the default the same as the listed in the config section ? because they don't match what is printed on the board itself ?
[12:59] <daveake> No the defaults in the code match the 2.3 board
[13:00] <daveake> Just testing this thing today - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKmcaneWgAAlDMe.jpg:large
[13:01] <chimpusmaximus> ooh very nice
[13:02] <daveake> Geoff-G8DHE I'll comment out those settings in the config file before the next commit
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[13:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Um see here ???? http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/LoRa/Capture.JPG
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[13:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> I've commented out the DIO lines in the config and allowed it to default but doesn't match the board ?
[13:03] <daveake> 1 sec
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[13:04] <daveake> OK that's old code; I should commit the latest
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[13:04] <daveake> So I lied above :/
[13:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> I just did! That's what came down!
[13:05] <daveake> No *I* should commit the changes
[13:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh you should commit the latest I'll wait!
[13:05] <daveake> yes
[13:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> with you now!
[13:05] <daveake> They'll go up today or tomorrow
[13:05] <daveake> :)
[13:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> I'll go back in then and set it as I had it 27/26 then :-)
[13:06] <daveake> yes :)
[13:07] <daveake> Well tbh once you have a working cvonfig just keep your gateway.txt and use that instead of whatever's on github
[13:07] <daveake> Then you don't have to change the receiver ID
[13:07] <chimpusmaximus> daveake: With a Pits v2.4 and Lora v2.3 i should be able to use CE0 slot again? I think i recall CE0 was not usable on LoRa v2.3
[13:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> I shall from now on, I didn't realise that there had been a board change!
[13:09] <daveake> chimpusmaximus If you're using the latest pits, with i2c adc, then you can use any lora with it
[13:09] <daveake> older ones had an spi adc
[13:10] <chimpusmaximus> cheers lost my last(2.3) one so will have latest pits tomorrow.
[13:10] <daveake> yeah, keep losing them please :)
[13:11] <chimpusmaximus> lol it may turn up in France mind.
[13:11] <daveake> bits of it might :/
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[14:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03kd7vlb_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=kd7vlb_chase
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[16:17] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
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[16:31] <fxmulder> are the MISO pulses for the SI40xx chips supposed to be so short?
[16:33] <fxmulder> I'm reading around 160ns whereas my clock width is 8us
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[16:51] <Pipo> Hi
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[17:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9PON-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9PON-11
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[18:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-14 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-14
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[18:15] <SA6BSS> anyone listend for the VE3KCL Balloon?? http://www.qrp-labs.com/ultimate3/balloon.html
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[18:29] <garymortimer> This came across my desk, super impressive http://www.suasnews.com/2015/07/37365/hableg-high-altitude-balloon-launched-experimental-glider/
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[18:55] <daveake> Anyone up near Manchester with an SDR fancy looking to see if BARC is flying ?
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[19:01] <dbrooke> not an SDR nor near Manchester but $$$BARC,855,0,01:09:06,0.0000,0.0000,1m,19,&&&
[19:02] <dbrooke> it is clearly not at the reported position 8-)
[19:02] <dbrooke> daveake: ^^^
[19:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PISKY - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PISKY
[19:04] <dbrooke> $$$BARC,866,0,19:03:43,53.3187,-2.7348,31569m,10,&&&
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[19:04] <daveake> It's keeps losing GPS lock, or, more likely, the ability to read the GPS :/
[19:05] Nick change: Upui -> Upu
[19:05] <daveake> &&& we don't know how to do checksums
[19:06] <dbrooke> seems strange that they do something so close but not quite what we could help with
[19:06] <daveake> Especially as they've been told
[19:07] <dbrooke> $$$BARC,881,0,64:00:00,0.0000,0.0008,195m,0,&&&
[19:07] <dbrooke> $$$BARC,882,0,64:00:00,0.0000,0.0008,195m,19,&&&
[19:07] <daveake> They've got some GPS parsing issues I suspect
[19:07] <dbrooke> oosp. only meant to paste one, but that has odd values
[19:08] <daveake> Much in http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[19:08] <daveake> No need to post here too :)
[19:09] <dbrooke> ah, OK, but even the time is wrong
[19:09] <daveake> Situation normal
[19:10] <Upu> give them chance its only their 21st flight
[19:10] <daveake> <splutter>
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[19:18] <Upu> I think it died
[19:18] <mattbrejza> i wonder if they bother decoding in teh car or just drive to predicted landing and wait for a text from the gsm trackers
[19:19] <Upu> take that back
[19:19] <Upu> this is the kit they rent out
[19:19] <Upu> may not even be them using it
[19:19] <mattbrejza> its amazing anyone they rent to manages to fly, seeing as even on their website tehy have the wrong notam application form
[19:21] <Upu> don't forget the barge mooring rope they supply
[19:21] <mattbrejza> well at least the 2kg balloon should be able to lift it
[19:22] <daveake> Do they *still* have the wrong form?
[19:22] <daveake> I emailed them about that months ago
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[19:22] <mattbrejza> well i havnt checked
[19:23] <daveake> ah ok
[19:23] <dbrooke> oh, is this "sent into space"?
[19:23] <daveake> lost in near space
[19:23] <mattbrejza> have we worked ouit why 'BARC' yet?
[19:23] <craag> It's their initials concatenated iirc
[19:23] <craag> or something like that
[19:23] <mattbrejza> oh right
[19:24] <daveake> Alex Baker / Chris Rose
[19:24] <daveake> It was their first flight that got me into hab
[19:25] <daveake> that had a gps/gsm tracker but I think it took me less than a week to realise I needed to do the radio thing
[19:25] <Laurenceb__> Chris Rose?
[19:25] <Laurenceb__> he was in my class at school :D
[19:26] <Laurenceb__> also thats where he got the HAB idea from :P
[19:26] <craag> so they do link to the correct form
[19:26] <daveake> I blame you Laurenceb
[19:26] <craag> but on the stratosvision link lol
[19:26] <Laurenceb__> heh
[19:26] <Laurenceb__> I know Alex Baker too
[19:27] <Laurenceb__> so im an indirectly responsible for daveake
[19:27] <daveake> yes
[19:28] <daveake> Like I said, you're to blame :)
[19:28] <craag> rather cheeky that the button labelled 'CAA.CO.UK' goes to 'http://stratosvision.com/docs/CAALaunchForm.doc'
[19:28] <daveake> UKHAS links to that too
[19:29] <craag> yep, but I wouldn't do that on a professional site.
[19:29] <daveake> no
[19:30] <craag> But then this is sentintospace we're talking about, do they count?
[19:30] <craag> :P
[19:30] <daveake> who is stratosvision.com ?
[19:30] <daveake> Don't remember that one
[19:30] <craag> hix
[19:30] <daveake> ta
[19:30] <daveake> Do the CAA host that doc somewhere ?
[19:31] <craag> Not that I know of
[19:31] <daveake> I've tried searching
[19:32] <daveake> And that usually ends up with the captive balloon form
[19:32] <daveake> CAA don't help themselves really
[19:32] <craag> if it was easy to find the form then more people would send them in ;)
[19:32] <daveake> hah
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[19:37] <Lunar_Lander> hello :)
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[20:05] <DL7AD> .hysplit SP3OSJ-12
[20:05] <SpacenearUS> 03DL7AD: No HYSPLIT for that callsign
[20:06] <lz1dev> .hysplit
[20:06] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: HYSPLIT available for: 03DK3SB-8, K6RPT-12, PS-46, SP3OSJ
[20:06] <lz1dev> .hysplit add SP3OSJ-12
[20:06] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Added 03SP3OSJ-12 to defaults
[20:06] <DL7AD> .hysplit SP3OSJ
[20:06] <SpacenearUS> 03DL7AD: HYSPLIT for 03SP3OSJ - 12http://spacenear.us/tracker/hysplit_cache/150723-16_199736_SP3OSJ.gif
[20:06] <lz1dev> .track SP3OSJ*
[20:06] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Here you go - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP3OSJ*
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[20:10] <lz1dev> jesus
[20:15] <lz1dev> cleared those old positions
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[20:19] <lz1dev> .hysplit run SP3OSJ-12
[20:19] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Your job has been added to the queue. Check in a few minutes
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[20:31] <ntx2> hi
[20:31] <ntx2> how do you test that your antenna is good to transmit from long distances?
[20:31] <ntx2> I just built one using the instructions on the wiki
[20:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Apart from testing it from a local hill top, not that easy, also its a very simple but effective design!
[20:34] <ntx2> ok..makes sense
[20:34] <ntx2> my worry is that I will loose contact with my antenna and want to test it in every way possible
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[20:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Take it for a drive around the neighbourhood, but normally without hills involved you will only be talking of a few hundred metres
[20:36] <ntx2> how do you test it while driving?
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[20:36] <ntx2> you mean, you have it transmitting from with a car?
[20:36] <ntx2> and then try to receive the signal from a stationary place?
[20:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> Leave the Rx at home tracking and just carry the tracker see if works!
[20:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> Best to have the aerial upwards when on a car ;-)
[20:37] <ntx2> if you are in a city, then will the signal travel through buildings?
[20:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nope not far hence the need for hills.
[20:38] <ntx2> I see
[20:38] <ntx2> thanks for the ideas
[20:38] <ntx2> will try them
[20:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> Take a day trip out of the City to practice ?
[20:41] <ntx2> you mean to a hilly area?
[20:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Well yes ...
[20:41] <ntx2> that is the only way I can find some hills :)
[20:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Which city are you in ?
[20:45] <ike> ntx2 to test your antenna/antennas you can decrease TX power, increase data rate or use transceiver with RSSI
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[20:46] <ike> it's good to have several antennas to compare
[20:47] <ntx2> how do you decrease power?
[20:47] <ike> it depends
[20:47] <ike> ;)
[20:48] <ike> on this module http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-For-Arduino-ARM-MCU-WL-433Mhz-RF-Transmitter-Module-And-Receiver-Link-Kit-/141196902303?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item20dffdbf9f you can decrease voltage
[20:48] <ike> on this module http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-NRF24L01-2-4GHz-Antenna-RF-Wireless-Transceiver-Module-for-Arduino-/131558697528?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1ea1826a38 you set TX power register
[20:49] <ntx2> ok
[20:49] <ntx2> I am using NTX2 as given on the wiki :)
[20:49] <ike> on this module http://www.ebay.com/itm/144MHz-145MHz-146MHz-154MHz-174MHz-VHF-HAM-Radio-Module-Amateur-Radio-DRA818V-/191210888951?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c850e9ef7 you set TX power pin
[20:49] <Upu> probably best if you want your payload back
[20:49] <ntx2> I did not find any option to change power
[20:49] <Upu> its fixed @ 10mW
[20:50] <ntx2> @Upu - didnt follow your comment
[20:50] <ike> ntx2 you can use resistors
[20:50] <ntx2> best to test several antennas?
[20:50] <Upu> use those cheap ebay things
[20:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> How do you prevent all the reflections from nearby wiring and cases effecting the signal at the Rx then ?
[20:50] <Upu> I'd just test with an antenna
[20:51] <daveake> YOu're making this far too complicated
[20:51] <Upu> no need to reduce the power
[20:51] <daveake> a) Make to specification
[20:51] <daveake> b) check for continuity
[20:51] <daveake> c) Test for shorts
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[20:51] <daveake> d) Do the drive away test - 1 mile on flat land job jobbed
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[21:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0RPI_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0RPI_chase
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[21:15] <ntx2> 1 mile drive test is interesting
[21:15] <ntx2> will do that
[21:15] <ntx2> thanks for the tips
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[21:45] <Ian_> ike your first link to tx (+ rx) is good for a first throw away beacon, but is not very stable and not particularly clever - unsupported here, for sure, but good for getting the idea and of course will radiate a signal for antenna testing.
[21:46] <Ian_> Not a serious contender. Entry level for HAB has to be NTX2B-FA
[21:48] <ike> yes, but in some countries $20 is the average monthly salary
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[21:51] <daveake> If you spend next to nothing on a crappy transmitter then you just wasted the money you spent on helium, balloon and parachute
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[21:51] <Ian_> I understand your predicament, but that won't improve the tech to the extent that it will work well.because you can't afford something that works well.
[21:51] <ike> and you can hook it directly to http://www.ebay.com/itm/VK2828A8G5-G-Mouse-GPS-Module-GPS-Navigation-Board-w-TTL-Level-Antenna-/111403836517?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_71&hash=item19f02fa465 with 3pcs AA battery and you have complete 10$ radio tracker
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[21:52] <daveake> Decent batteries will cost half of that $10
[21:53] <daveake> But you're going to use cheap Chinese ones, aren't you?
[21:53] <Ian_> If you can then you are well away, but if you want support you are suddenly in deep water without a paddle.
[21:53] <mattbrejza> if you want a cheap tracking solution you might as well just let it go with a long reel of thread attached to it
[21:53] <mattbrejza> or perhaps just write your phone number on it and hope
[21:54] <mattbrejza> youll get a better recovery rate than some peoples attempt at radio
[21:54] <daveake> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-set-of-paddles-oars-for-canoe-surf-board-Kayaks-dingy-99p-/221831118672?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item33a62a3f50
[21:54] <Ian_> mattbrejza lol, have you seen the price of thread these days? :)
[21:55] <Ian_> daveake - problem solver :)
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> :D
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[22:04] <Ian_> hey, those paddles are the dual speed version
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[22:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD0VYQ-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0VYQ-1
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[00:00] --- Fri Jul 24 2015