highaltitude.log.20150714

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[04:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HB9RSU _chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HB9RSU%20_chase
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[07:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03OM3BC-11 after 0320 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=OM3BC-11
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[07:09] <Vaizki> top of the morning to all and sundry
[07:10] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DK3SB-7 after 034 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK3SB-7
[07:16] <fsphil> morning
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[07:17] <Vaizki> I'm having trouble with the tracker, it's getting stuck on loading data
[07:19] <daveake> loads ok here
[07:20] <Vaizki> 39.38 seconds load time
[07:20] <Vaizki> hmm but now it works faster again
[07:21] <Vaizki> so never mind :)
[07:21] Nick change: x-f_ -> x-f
[07:24] <Vaizki> and ps-46 keeps on going
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[07:25] <fsphil> how far from the B record is it?
[07:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-PITS - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-PITS
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[07:32] <Vaizki> I think B-64 was 240 000 km
[07:32] <Vaizki> so PS-46 is not even halfway there...
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[07:48] <michal_f> hi
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[09:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BALYOLO - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BALYOLO
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[09:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LuckyChase_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LuckyChase_chase
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[09:51] <SpeedEvil> Woo - New horizons closest approach in a couple of hours.
[09:52] <SpeedEvil> We won't know till midnight if it's survived
[09:53] <Vaizki> survived what? pluto's orbital debris?
[09:53] <fsphil> yep
[09:53] <SpeedEvil> yes
[09:53] <SpeedEvil> Or aliens.
[09:53] <Vaizki> plutocrats
[09:53] <fsphil> or tree
[09:53] <SpeedEvil> :)
[09:55] <day> how close does it get to pluto? :o
[09:55] <Vaizki> so apparently if it doesn't survive, there will be zero pics because it has to do a photo run, then turn around to transmit back to earth?
[09:55] <edmoore> day 12500km iirc
[09:55] <day> i thought it stays well out of hades orbit
[09:55] <fsphil> yea
[09:56] <day> damn thats close :O
[09:56] <edmoore> yep
[09:56] <edmoore> one earth-width
[09:56] <fsphil> a small moons throw away
[09:56] <daveake> 1 in 10000 chance of hitting something, they reckon
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[09:56] <Vaizki> very close, like 12km away
[09:56] <SpeedEvil> Somewhere on a disk is a 600 pixel across image of pluto.
[09:56] <Vaizki> hehe
[09:56] <Vaizki> 12000 km
[09:56] <SpeedEvil> Vaizki:
[09:56] <Vaizki> I can't eat and type simultaneously it seems
[09:56] <fsphil> SpeedEvil: that's getting released in a few hours apparently
[09:57] <SpeedEvil> that is the last image we have before encunter
[09:57] <day> the athmospere was 3kkm thick?
[09:57] <day> atmosphere*
[09:58] <edmoore> one day i will find the person who writes maths articles on wikipedia
[09:58] <Vaizki> if NH really gets all the moons etc I'll be pretty impressed
[09:58] <edmoore> and end them
[09:58] <fsphil> the atmosphere thickness seems to change depending on the distance from the sun
[09:58] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: can it be tomorrow?
[09:58] <Vaizki> apparently it's all a timed sequence of turns and snaps
[09:58] <SpeedEvil> Or do you have something planned?
[09:58] <edmoore> SpeedEvil: i suspect they are hard to find
[09:58] <edmoore> just as their articles are hard to decode
[09:58] <fsphil> we need someone with certain skills
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[09:59] <fsphil> who also trained batman
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[09:59] <day> charon not hades*
[10:00] <edmoore> the articles remind me of my a very early experience in my first term at cambridge, when i realised i wasn't in kansas anymore
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[10:01] <edmoore> i was trying to understand the fourier transform and asked a 3rd or 4th year physicist who just witheringly looked at me as she said 'er... it's just a point solution in Hilbert space?'
[10:01] <fsphil> duh
[10:01] <fsphil> what's a Hilbert space?
[10:02] <edmoore> well exactly
[10:02] <gonzo_> it's like a hackspace, but for old men struggling with modern tech
[10:03] <edmoore> so here's a bad explanation that'll do (now that i made it through a degree)
[10:03] <fsphil> generalises on the idea of Euclidean space. naturally
[10:03] <edmoore> if you take something like a fourier decomposition of a signal
[10:04] <SpeedEvil> Fourier space is like regular space, but with flock wallpaper.
[10:04] <edmoore> some magnitude of x hz, some mag of y hz, some amount of z hz, say
[10:04] <lz1dev> oh god
[10:04] <edmoore> then you could make a 3D space (x,y,z) and put a point in that
[10:04] <edmoore> and that defines the same thing
[10:05] <fsphil> ah
[10:05] <ibanezmatt13> a signal has 3 dimensions of frequency? :o
[10:05] <fsphil> or more
[10:05] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: that was a simple case
[10:05] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: For a simple signal made from three sinusoidal components, yes
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> (neglecting phase)
[10:06] <day> if i understand wiki correctly, plutos atmosphere thickness changes drastically depending on his orbital position :o
[10:06] <edmoore> and i think that space that you transform the signal into has nice intuitive spacey properties
[10:06] <fsphil> so you could say, a series of 10 samples is just a point in a 10 dimension space?
[10:06] <edmoore> like distance or angles between points being meaningful
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[10:08] <edmoore> fsphil: sure i guess
[10:08] <edmoore> ibanezmatt13: in general, the hilbert space would be infinitely dimensional
[10:08] <fsphil> I suspect I haven't understood it
[10:08] <edmoore> i was just using a contrived example
[10:09] <edmoore> i don't think you really need to understand it. I don't
[10:09] <ibanezmatt13> I see, a bit beyond my level I think :P
[10:09] <SpeedEvil> In practic, for most cases, you can 'understand' fourier by knowing how to work the transform.
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> You feed a series of samples without a DC offset into the transform, and out comes a set of samples in frequency space
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> you can also do the thing in reverse.
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> And usefully, manipulate the frequency space result to do all sorts of fun filtering before transforming back.
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> Or perceptual masking - like mp3 - and throw away all the inaudible stuff
[10:11] <edmoore> mp3 is cheeky and clever
[10:11] <SpeedEvil> It even mostly works.
[10:11] <edmoore> i don't really like those messy wet problems that involve modelling humans
[10:11] <edmoore> like video and audio compression
[10:12] <day> doesnt picture compression work similar?
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> day: yes.
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> day: modern compression of audio and video is based around fourier or very similar concepts
[10:12] <edmoore> where rms error between compressed and original doesn't correlate all that well with perceived quality of the compression
[10:12] <day> thats what i thought
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> day: this is likely to change fairly shortly, where it becomes based on models of items in a scene and their orientation and lighting
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> At least for some apps.
[10:13] <day> sounds like a vector based scene
[10:14] <SpeedEvil> You can accurately do video-conferencing of someones head, for example with a model of their head, and every muscle group activation
[10:14] <SpeedEvil> this is ~1000 bytes/s or so, tops.
[10:14] <edmoore> they newer video codecs (fsphil knows about this) do a quite nice thing where they adapt the grid sizes that they use for compression depending on the actual picture
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> (1000 bytes/s plus a model of their head in the 'resting's tate of course)
[10:15] <edmoore> so instead of say, staight jpeg which just divides the picture up into 16x16 pixel blocks and does the dct on each of those, it adapts the block sizes - large for areas of low spacial frequency, find for areas of high spatial frequency
[10:15] <day> :P
[10:15] <day> where was this stuff when i had a 28kbaud modem
[10:15] <edmoore> it's a bit like adaptive mesh techniques for computational fluid dynamics
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[10:21] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[10:21] <SpeedEvil> HELLO
[10:22] <Vaizki> I just read the last 150 lines. here's my summary: "ok"
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> Vaizki: :)
[10:22] <edmoore> ?
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> Vaizki: If your brain hasn't melted yet, I recommend Kalman filter
[10:22] <SpeedEvil> s
[10:24] <Vaizki> yes I know them..
[10:25] <fsphil> yea the newer image/video codecs are pretty advanced stuff
[10:25] <edmoore> meh i understand those now :)
[10:25] <fsphil> jpeg was ahead of its time though
[10:26] <fsphil> one of the reasons its lasted so long
[10:27] <SpeedEvil> Long-lived standards are awesome
[10:27] <edmoore> LIKE POSIX
[10:27] <SpeedEvil> 12 bits would be a nice upgrade
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[10:40] <Lunar_Lander> pluto time!
[10:40] <day> stop it please T_T
[10:41] <SpeedEvil> (by MC hammer)
[10:42] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if the doppler is large enough that they wouldn't pick up the transmission if it unexpectedly stopped
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[11:18] <Vaizki> https://instagram.com/p/5HT9Ggksmb/?taken-by=newhorizonsmission
[11:19] <Vaizki> yesterday's pic is out
[11:20] <fsphil> oh nice
[11:21] <Vaizki> a bit lame they didn't get it on nasa.gov yet.. :P
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[11:21] <daveake> Today's next pic will be from 60x closer
[11:22] <fsphil> lets hope they didn't mix up their units
[11:23] <daveake> metres/miles ... oops
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[11:30] <Vaizki> http://i.imgur.com/cH2l37N.gifv
[11:30] <Vaizki> those moons are drunk
[11:34] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, ohhhh mars climate orbiter
[11:35] <daveake> "orbiter" ...
[11:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[11:35] <Lunar_Lander> last days I read the evolution of pluto probes on the planetary society, Pluto 350, Pluto Express and then NH
[11:36] <Lunar_Lander> Russia wanted to add a crash probe onto Pluto Express
[11:36] <Lunar_Lander> that would have been interestin
[11:36] <Lunar_Lander> +g
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[11:39] <Lunar_Lander> "There are less than 12 minutes until the New Horizons spacecraft flies closest to Pluto on July 14, 2015 11:49:57 UTC (07:49:57 EDT) when it will be 7,800 miles (12,500 kilometers, less than 5.3 Pluto diameters) from the surface." wikipedia
[11:40] <mattbrejza> oh its got two seconds earlier
[11:40] <mattbrejza> it was 11:49:59 at some point
[11:41] <Lunar_Lander> 8:50 on nasa ustream
[11:41] <fsphil> 11:49:57 on the countdown clock
[11:42] <fsphil> just under 8 minutes
[11:44] <Vaizki> but there's no way to know it it made it until tomorrow?
[11:44] <fsphil> yep
[11:44] <fsphil> first contact is 2am tonight UK time
[11:44] <Lunar_Lander> 6 min
[11:46] <fsphil> it's going to fly through the shadow of pluto afterwards, should be able to see its atmosphere refracting sunlight
[11:47] <Lunar_Lander> xD nobody there
[11:49] <mattbrejza> whoooooosh....
[11:50] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Whoosh and its past ......
[11:50] <mattbrejza> well that was exciting
[11:50] <Vaizki> how many months will it take to stream back those photos at 1kbps or less...
[11:50] <mattbrejza> back to work
[11:52] <fsphil> many
[11:52] <fsphil> but then there's no rush
[11:53] <mattbrejza> http://what-if.xkcd.com/
[11:54] <x-f> http://xkcd.com/1532/
[11:55] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[11:55] <x-f> ah, it's already linked there, nevermind
[11:56] Action: daveake checks fridge for beer for tonight
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[12:13] <edmoore> https://instagram.com/p/5HTXKMoaFL/
[12:14] <UpuWork> wow
[12:14] <UpuWork> its like a real planet
[12:14] <daveake> https://twitter.com/DownhereonEarth/status/620923997471903744
[12:15] <x-f> :)
[12:17] <ibanezmatt13> haha :)
[12:25] <fsphil> DSN stations now transmitting towards pluto, NH measuring the signal as it passes through plutos atmosphere
[12:30] <Lunar_Lander> nice
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[12:30] <mattbrejza> https://eyes.nasa.gov/dsn/dsn.html ?
[12:32] <fsphil> interesting, no NH on there
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[12:33] <fsphil> 159.00b/s from voyager 1
[12:33] <fsphil> cool
[12:33] <fsphil> same rate from voyager 2
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[12:35] <infaddict> edmoore: is that actual image received or touched up?
[12:35] <mattbrejza> they had to combine B&W and colour images for that
[12:36] <Lunar_Lander> hmm
[12:37] <Lunar_Lander> DSN 45 has a sinusoidial wave, DNS 35 has some modulation on it
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[12:37] <Lunar_Lander> and DSN 55 seems to do two-way comms
[12:37] <Lunar_Lander> if they try to illustrate what is happening
[12:38] <Lunar_Lander> ah DSN 45 is modulated
[12:38] <Lunar_Lander> now
[12:38] <mattbrejza> but none of them are talking to NH?
[12:38] <Lunar_Lander> looks like it, Australia is on Voyager, Goldstone on LRO and Mars and Madrid on Mars too
[12:39] <fsphil> maybe the occulation experiment is already over
[12:39] <mattbrejza> i thought you might change your nick in honour of today
[12:40] Nick change: Lunar_Lander -> Pluto_Visitor
[12:41] <Pluto_Visitor> does anybody know more about the waveform representation?
[12:41] <Pluto_Visitor> like DSN 25 now is back to a smooth wave
[12:42] <Pluto_Visitor> ah it says carrier
[12:44] <Darkside> they are transmitting carrier
[12:44] <Darkside> for the ionosphere measurement stuf
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[12:53] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Surely the any transmission would have been 41/2 hours ago for it to have got ther now.
[13:18] <Laurenceb> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/processor-microcontroller-development-kits/8820278/
[13:18] <Laurenceb> nice price
[13:18] <Laurenceb> needs a case and lipo power tho
[13:19] <Laurenceb> would make a very nice GUI thingy
[13:21] _charlie (80f3028d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.243.2.141) joined #highaltitude.
[13:24] <chimpusmaximus> Looks like making a case for it would be pretty easy, having a few more issues trying to sort a rpi and small hdmi screen together.
[13:24] <adamgreig> these F7s look nice
[13:24] <adamgreig> accursed arduino connectors
[13:26] <mattbrejza> although the STM32F746NGH6 is more expensive than processors used in the rpi et al?
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[13:49] <craag> more expensive in low quantity
[13:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DL7AD-12 after 037 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL7AD-12
[13:51] <Laurenceb> uGFX should be running on that board soon
[13:54] <Laurenceb> http://forum.ugfx.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=247
[13:54] <Laurenceb> i spoke too late
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[14:10] <_charlie> 11hours until New Horizons make contact yay
[14:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03F5APQ_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=F5APQ_chase
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[14:44] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
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[15:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AGGIE2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AGGIE2
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[15:23] <Pluto_Visitor> Canberra looks at NH
[15:25] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[15:41] <SA6BSS> Cool!!! got PS-46 on 30m last night!! https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26543754/PS-46.JPG
[15:42] <Laurenceb> nice
[15:42] <Laurenceb> via JT-85?
[15:44] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[15:45] <SA6BSS> JT-9
[15:46] <SM0ULC> tja
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[15:46] <SM0ULC> SA6BSS: grattis!
[15:47] Action: SM0ULC "online" on hf via 15m 220v cable ang hf-dongle. No LPF though.. :/
[15:48] <SA6BSS> tack :)
[15:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LORA1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LORA1
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[16:08] <fsphil> Canberra getting ready for New Horizons from the looks of the DSN page
[16:09] <SA6BSS> 8GB of data, 2 year to download :)
[16:10] <fsphil> better compression software could be developed during the download :)
[16:10] <fsphil> and I thought it took a long time to download ISO images over 56k modem
[16:11] <SM0ULC> fsphil: :)
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[16:13] <fsphil> two and a half days usually. being able to resume was essential :)
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[17:13] <danielsaul> Laurenceb: Do you have a title for your talk at the conf?
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[17:29] <Laurenceb> danielsaul: are you just asking or are you putting together a list of titles?
[17:30] <Laurenceb> I was going to keep it secret
[17:30] <danielsaul> Ah ok, that's fine aha
[17:30] <Laurenceb> but anyone wants a proper list of titles for the conference stuff
[17:31] <danielsaul> Will leave it blank on the timetable
[17:31] <adamgreig> "title redacted"
[17:31] <Laurenceb> hehe
[17:31] <Laurenceb> do we have an official timetable yet?
[17:32] <Laurenceb> I have a few slides and mess.... need to get organised
[17:32] <danielsaul> Putting one together atm
[17:33] <Laurenceb> cool
[17:33] <Laurenceb> ok maybe add a title, it will drum up interest
[17:33] <Laurenceb> PM
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[17:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03TT7-40 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TT7-40
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[17:49] <Pluto_Visitor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hbp8QYUQpc
[17:53] F5MVO (52e6b25d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.230.178.93) joined #highaltitude.
[17:53] <F5MVO> Hello
[17:53] <mbales_> ahoy hoy
[18:07] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[18:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03F5MVO_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=F5MVO_chase
[18:18] <F5MVO> Yes, just for test, fine
[18:22] vk5fsck-15 (~linux-ham@fsf/member/linux-ham) joined #highaltitude.
[18:23] <F5MVO> Yesterday, F5MVO-11 on tracker.habhub.org it's ok
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[18:25] <TT7> hallo everybody
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[18:25] <mbales_> hello
[18:25] <TT7> is there a way to edit a payload configuration document, or does it always create a new one?
[18:26] <Upu> just create a new one based on the old one
[18:26] <Upu> the new one takes precidence
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[18:26] <TT7> ok
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[18:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NM5SS-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NM5SS-11
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[19:15] <fsphil> http://xkcd.com/1551/
[19:15] <fsphil> love the JPEG plumes
[19:17] <fsphil> hopefully it has actual plumes
[19:22] <Pluto_Visitor> megaman :D
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[20:23] <michemto> Hi-yall
[20:24] <fsphil> evening
[20:24] <michemto> Heading in habhub export
[20:24] <michemto> it means direction in degrees?
[20:24] <fsphil> I believe so
[20:24] <michemto> k
[20:25] <michemto> and vertical speed is being calculated from time and height data, eh?
[20:25] <fsphil> yes
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[20:27] <fsphil> it may use a value provided in the string if one is provided. though I'm not 100% sure on that. lz1dev?
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[21:00] <daveake> nice
[21:00] <daveake> sry wrng win
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[21:33] <fsphil> stupid IRC servers
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[21:34] <fsphil> I keep getting kicked off
[21:35] <fsphil> or maybe it's my internet
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[22:39] <Pluto_Visitor> good night :)
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[00:00] --- Wed Jul 15 2015