highaltitude.log.20150615

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[01:57] <johnns> hi
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[07:15] <fsphil> https://twitter.com/RonBaalke/status/610313556500725760/photo/1
[07:16] <fsphil> the dark patch really does make it look like it's being illuminated from the back
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[07:27] <fsphil> oooh there's a bit crater just visible in the raw images
[07:27] <fsphil> big*
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[07:35] <fsphil> hey if I'm the first to see it, do I get to name it? :)
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[09:36] <LunarWork> hello
[09:38] <fsphil> howdys
[09:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-46 after 038 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-46
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[09:47] <fsphil> namibia
[09:47] <fsphil> nice
[09:49] <LunarWork> yay
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[10:10] <Laurenceb_> tropical thunderstorms?
[10:10] <Laurenceb_> maybe too far south
[10:10] <Laurenceb_> unlikely over namib desert
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[11:33] <Laurenceb_> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1680369699/smart-radio
[11:33] <Laurenceb_> wut
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> So, for $6000, vague shit, specified by someone who has never done anything beyond use walkie talkies.
[11:36] <daveake> I love that the suspect is wearing prison clothes
[11:36] <daveake> That's a dead giveaway
[11:36] <eroomde> he's a police oficer
[11:36] <eroomde> he _says_ he's a police officer anyway
[11:37] <russss> lol
[11:40] <mattbrejza> could be worse https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ritot-the-first-projection-watch#/updates
[11:40] <nick_> $6k gets you a sketch, some ideas and a thank you message.
[11:40] <nick_> I'm in.
[11:40] <nick_> Did the kickstarter arduino in space thing get funded?
[11:41] <mattbrejza> which one...?
[11:41] <mattbrejza> oh nm i remember now
[11:41] <nick_> A quick google didn't find it.
[11:41] <nick_> So I forget which one
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[11:59] <Darkside> nick_: ardusat?
[12:00] <Darkside> i think that one has launched already
[12:00] <mattbrejza> i think nick is referring to the one that looked like an arduino cluster
[12:00] <Darkside> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/ISS-38_Nanosatellites_deployment_%28c%29.jpg
[12:00] <Darkside> yes, ardusat
[12:01] <Darkside> one of the ones in that picture
[12:01] <mattbrejza> it had a render of a stack of 300 Unos
[12:02] <Darkside> oh
[12:02] <Darkside> yeah ok this one wasnt quite like that lol
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[12:41] <SpeedEvil> I am lots less ritical of ardusat after lightsail.
[12:54] <mattbrejza> how about the one that activated after a timer elapsed? but then upon launch it reset so the timer restarted and it never activated before falling back to earth?
[12:54] <craag> was that kicksat?
[12:54] <craag> with the little cc430 boards?
[12:54] <mattbrejza> yea that one
[12:54] <mattbrejza> they want to go to the moon now
[12:55] <craag> riiight
[12:55] <mattbrejza> the cc430 boards that just connected the two ends of the dipole to the two differential antenna pins on the cc430
[12:55] <mattbrejza> with no matching or filtering
[12:55] <craag> lol
[12:55] <mattbrejza> (not that i think a filter is needed in their case)
[12:56] <mattbrejza> also questionable lack of decoupling, and just powered straight from a shitty solar cell
[12:56] <craag> true kickstarter pedigree
[12:57] <eroomde> http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/news_updates.html
[12:57] <eroomde> a thingamie about what we've been doing
[13:00] <mattbrejza> does this now mean people who write blogs are going to be peering through the fence of the site trying to see if they can get anything to write about?
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[13:01] <eroomde> we have an earth bank within the fenced area, all around
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[13:03] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: IIRC phobos-grunt did the same
[13:03] <mattbrejza> oh whoops
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[13:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03INFCU1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=INFCU1
[13:23] <Laurenceb__> we need a UKHAS sat :P
[13:24] <Laurenceb__> 70cm picoballoon store and forward
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> rotavator.
[13:25] Action: Laurenceb__ has been playing with simulations of dual magnotorquer based spin stabilisation
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> For balloons?
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> I played with that
[13:25] <Laurenceb__> for picosats
[13:25] <SpeedEvil> in hardware
[13:26] <SpeedEvil> it looked eminently doable at really quite low power
[13:26] <Laurenceb__> so you can have a directional antenna
[13:26] <SpeedEvil> ah
[13:26] <Laurenceb__> yes
[13:26] <SpeedEvil> Or LASER
[13:26] <SpeedEvil> Or pointed telescope.
[13:26] <Laurenceb__> it looks doable, if you have correct arrangement of moments of inertia
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[13:26] <SpeedEvil> Degeneracy is annnoying.
[13:27] <Laurenceb__> erm a pointed scope is going to need proper 3 axis control surely?
[13:27] <eroomde> yes
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> Surely two?
[13:27] <gonzo_> reaction wheels!
[13:27] <Laurenceb__> it rapidly gets non feasible
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[13:27] <gonzo_> though that could really confuse any member of ther public who finds it and tries to walk off with it!
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> By 'pointed scope' I more mean a webcam with some zoom, rather than an actual narrow FOV thing
[13:28] <Laurenceb__> dual magnotorquer rods is borderline feasible on pocketqub
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: I was looking at simple large diameter coils
[13:28] <Laurenceb__> aiui rods get better performance/mass at pocketqub size
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> I dunno - I just had what seemed usable performance from a ~10*10cm coil with a few turns
[13:29] <Laurenceb__> so I was looking at TMP006 IR sensor to keep it earth facing, then HMCxxxx magno, ST gyro and two rods
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> Not adequate to rapidly point at all.
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> But enough to desaturate
[13:29] <Laurenceb__> simple "heat seeking" control loop
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[13:31] <Laurenceb__> and yes, you need a different moment of inertia along each axis to keep it controllable with two rods
[13:31] <Laurenceb__> otherwise its degenerate
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> I think I was assuming a spun satellite.
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> Precessing it to point in the desired direction
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> It's been a while though
[13:32] <Laurenceb__> yes thats what im simming
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> e-ink radiometer
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[13:36] <Laurenceb__> of course, all this trouble only gets you ~4dB extra, but thats enough to do 200bps to the horizon with a 10mW 434mhz dipole and si446x
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:36] <Laurenceb__> from 700km orbit
[13:37] <SpeedEvil> LASERs would be awesome.
[13:37] <Laurenceb__> also 446x gives you rough position for free from doppler fitting
[13:37] <SpeedEvil> 10mW, even not-very-well pointed, gives you silly datarates
[13:37] <SpeedEvil> (compared to 200bps anywya)
[13:37] <SpeedEvil> but the pointing is of course orders harder
[13:40] <Laurenceb__> yeah I dont really see the advantages of free space optical, even for google loon style applications
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[13:40] <Laurenceb__> there is 24Ghz ISM band they could use for example
[13:40] <Laurenceb__> with some small dishes or Fresnel lenses
[13:42] <infaddict> nozzle tastic eroomde. interesting work.
[13:42] <eroomde> it is nozzley yes
[13:43] <Laurenceb__> https://www.hittite.com/products/view.html/view/HMC1063LP3E
[13:44] <Laurenceb__> hmmm
[13:44] <Laurenceb__> 24Ghz hab link?
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[13:44] Action: Laurenceb__ reads ofcom rules
[13:44] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Oooh - looks nice!
[13:45] <eroomde> the main pic is a very early one
[13:45] Action: SpeedEvil chooses to believe that the new MD is Mark Thomas the comedian.
[13:45] <eroomde> that also has my coffee mug in the frame
[13:45] <eroomde> they could have found a better one :/
[13:48] <Laurenceb__> the "3d printed" injector is interesting
[13:48] <eroomde> yes
[13:48] <Laurenceb__> i expected greater porosity where the holes have been threaded
[13:48] <eroomde> why the scarequotes?
[13:48] <Laurenceb__> or have those been lined?
[13:48] <eroomde> oh that was post-machined
[13:48] <Laurenceb__> cuz omg 3d printing
[13:48] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[13:48] <SpeedEvil> 3d printing is awesome.
[13:49] <Laurenceb__> lol
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> If it's the right printer and design.
[13:49] <infaddict> hence the quotes
[13:49] <Laurenceb__> indeed
[13:49] <Laurenceb__> SLS is awesome
[13:49] <Laurenceb__> would be more accurate
[13:49] <Laurenceb__> so is the injector SLS titanium?
[13:49] <SpeedEvil> http://3dprint.com/72682/amsterdam-3d-printed-bridge/
[13:49] <eroomde> yeah it needed some post machining as the interface is quite precise
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[13:49] <SpeedEvil> = 'we have a siz axis robot, and a MIG welder, and need some PR
[13:49] <Laurenceb__> but theres no new metal inserted there?
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> MIG
[13:50] <Laurenceb__> I just expected it to look obviously porous
[13:50] <SpeedEvil> ah - nvm
[13:50] <eroomde> no it's not obviously porous
[13:51] <eroomde> that would be a disaster given the fuel and the oxidiser are running in internal channels next to each other
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> SLS metal - under vacuum - looks surprisingly doable in a number of ways
[13:52] <Laurenceb__> yeah lol
[13:52] <Laurenceb__> I'm confused
[13:52] <Laurenceb__> is it post treated somehow to avoid porosity?
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[13:54] <eroomde> Laurenceb__: i think your general understanding of the state of the art in 3d metal printing is out of date
[13:55] <Laurenceb__> heh ok
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> If you forget to ask how much - it gets nice.
[13:55] <Laurenceb__> is it SLS ?
[13:55] <SpeedEvil> You're not going to be seeing those sort of machines on kickstarter soon though
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[13:57] <gonzo_> I appreciate that some fab problems could opnly be done on a 3d print. But it seems that people are getting fixated on it when simple cnc machining is all that is required
[13:57] <eroomde> in this case no
[13:58] <gonzo_> they seem to be bundling the whole back office benifits, with the final fab oprocess
[13:58] <eroomde> this was a deliberate experiment to push what 3d printing can do to make something that would have been an absolute mind-bender to do conventionally
[13:58] <Laurenceb__> yeah machining injectors is a well known pita
[13:58] <gonzo_> yep, I assumed your application was in that catagory
[13:58] <Laurenceb__> so was it SLS ?
[13:59] <Laurenceb__> or some other method?
[13:59] <eroomde> Laurenceb__: i dunno if i can talk about it much beyond what is in the press release really.
[13:59] <Laurenceb__> ah ok
[14:00] <Laurenceb__> I see rocketlabs have made something similar tho
[14:00] <Laurenceb__> very interesting
[14:00] <gonzo_> (my gripe tends to be driven by suffering the evagelising of non mechanical people)
[14:00] <Laurenceb__> hehe
[14:00] <Laurenceb__> me 2
[14:00] <Laurenceb__> especially when presented with plastic turds
[14:01] <gonzo_> I enjoy telling them about this even newer technique, where you take a block of good virgin metal and use a 3d cutting tool to remove all the bits your don't want
[14:01] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: can you reveal if it was a commercial provider doing the printer, or in-house?
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> ah
[14:02] <SpeedEvil> Apologies for the somewhat disjointed responses above.
[14:03] <SpeedEvil> I shall now go back to sleep.
[14:03] <gonzo_> you'll get your coat?
[14:03] <russss> well spacex uses DMLS for their engines
[14:04] <Laurenceb__> someone once suggested I 2d print a complex sensor constructed from silicone rubber, mylar film and FPC...
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027288420800165X A new direct coagulation casting process for alumina slurries prepared using poly(acrylate) dispersant - is really cool if you have a 1600C kiln
[14:04] <russss> those kilns aren't too expensive
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[14:11] <eroomde> Laurenceb__: if you were to do 3d printing of rocket parts i think dmls is the only process i'd find really interesting, put it that way
[14:11] <russss> heh
[14:12] <eroomde> when you look at the material properties of the parts in printed for vs 'pure' examples of the material, you'll be pleased by the performance of the newer processes, i think
[14:12] <Laurenceb__> interesting, thanks
[14:12] <eroomde> usually >90% of the equivalent performance of the 'pure' version for most mechanical properties you can think of
[14:12] <eroomde> the hard thing is dealing with internal stresses in parts with very complicated internal 3d voids
[14:13] <eroomde> it is not an off-the-shelf process yes, in that regard
[14:13] <eroomde> and so find yourself some experts to work with
[14:21] <Vaizki> did you see those printed faucets
[14:22] <Vaizki> http://www.boredpanda.com/3d-printing-faucet-design-american-standard-laser-sintering/
[14:22] <Vaizki> at 12k -20k usd for the faucet, might as well cad model one myself ;)
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[14:23] <SpeedEvil> 3d printing one of the dyson dryer taps might be reasonable.
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[14:50] <Laurenceb__> ah I didnt realise DMLS != SLS
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[15:11] <Laurenceb__> arggggg
[15:11] <Laurenceb__> I hate scientific publishing
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[15:11] <SpeedEvil> Is this more graph things?
[15:12] <Laurenceb__> I suspect there is a number of authors singularity
[15:12] <Laurenceb__> once number of authors exceeds ten, no productive work can be done
[15:12] <Laurenceb__> just endless email arguments over content
[15:12] <Laurenceb__> this has been going on for over 2 years :-/
[15:12] <SpeedEvil> Is this going to in principle end up in a top-tier journal?
[15:13] <Laurenceb__> yes...
[15:13] <Laurenceb__> but after I spent the past 3 months redoing graphs with agreement from 90% of authors... one has just sent me an email asking for it all to be redone from scratch
[15:14] <SpeedEvil> Sigh.
[15:14] <mattbrejza> just remove him from the authors list
[15:14] <Laurenceb__> and he was responsible for funding... so people listen to him :S
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[15:17] <Ian_> In heated multi party discussions, it's always good to know just where the funding comes from. Seems that he needs to tell you how he wants it - cutting to the chase.
[15:18] <chris_99> Laurenceb, what's the paper on if you can say
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[15:20] <Laurenceb__> vehicle ride quality
[15:20] <Laurenceb__> and suspension systems
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[15:22] <chris_99> cool, for cars?
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[15:32] <Ian_> [16:05] Horse design by the sound of it . . . http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/06/29/why-design-by-commitee-should-die/
[15:36] <Laurenceb__> for ambulances
[15:37] <Laurenceb__> It was formulated by Dr. Laurence
[15:37] <Laurenceb__> yup
[15:37] <Laurenceb__> on irc in 2015
[15:38] <Laurenceb__> clearly I have a clone somewhere
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[15:42] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[16:39] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ms3pHE9aCU - on the plus side - it looks a lot cooler transparent
[16:44] <Laurenceb__> I worked out how to make hyperloop cheaper
[16:44] <Laurenceb__> use steel wheels on steel rails
[16:44] <Laurenceb__> in a concrete sewer pipe
[16:45] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[16:47] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:48] <Laurenceb__> annyoingly its hard to get power off the rails
[16:48] <SpeedEvil> With or without autogenous generation of methane for power?
[16:48] <Laurenceb__> theoretically you could run one rail at ~25kv and one at -25kv
[16:48] <Laurenceb__> but vacuum commutators arent very good
[16:49] <SpeedEvil> Teeny puffs of easily ionisable helium.
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[19:26] <Laurenceb__> http://www.scribd.com/doc/268738148/Spacex-Hyperloop-Pod-Competition
[19:26] Action: Laurenceb__ wonders if you are allowed to mount rails in it
[19:28] <Laurenceb__> hmm looks lame
[19:29] <Laurenceb__> If an air bearing system is used, how much surface area is needed for the footpad design
[19:29] <Laurenceb__> whyyyyy
[19:29] Action: Laurenceb__ wants to know how Mr Musk convinced Texas A&M University of his sanity
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[20:25] <qyx_> lol
[20:30] <Laurenceb__> I swear hes going to become the modern day Howard Hughes
[20:32] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[20:35] <SpeedEvil> The falcon 9 is longer and heavier than the Spruce Goose.
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> Though admittedly is not made of wood.
[20:36] <Laurenceb__> sounds like NASA have a HR department
[20:36] <Laurenceb__> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37642.msg1389741#msg1389741
[20:37] <Laurenceb__> suddenly it all makes sense, NSF is actually "Bored NASA employees"
[20:37] <Laurenceb__> thats why they talk shit for multiple thousand pages
[20:39] <Laurenceb__> Q: why is SLS so expensive? A: all the employees are trolling NSF instead of working
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[20:40] <SpeedEvil> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36326.0 - closing on 5000 posts and a million views
[20:42] <russss> I am suddenly curious about making rockets out of wood
[20:43] <russss> artisanal hand-carved rockets
[20:43] <Laurenceb__> Spruce Goose material is actually very high performance
[20:43] <Laurenceb__> as good as cheap carbon fibre
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> Spruce is awesome
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> err
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> bnirch
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> especially if you are not sectionally constrained
[20:47] <Laurenceb__> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duramold
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> interesitng
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[21:29] <Ian_> A goose can be delicious or plain fun :-)
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[00:00] --- Tue Jun 16 2015