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[02:52] <stheory> Geoff-G8DHE, eroomde, daveake I called up some people yesterday with regards to regulations for launching balloons in India...
[02:52] <stheory> ...and it turns out it takes a year to get permits :(
[03:06] <Ian_> That's a bit grim stheory. That's for the balloon and not the radio aspect? There may be a 2m diameter in all stages of flight exception that means a pico balloon is just a party balloon and not regulated, even at 12km :)
[03:07] <Ian_> Bedtime
[03:09] <stheory> Yeah, that's for the balloon itself! But the 144 - 146 MHz and 434 - 438 MHz bands are a-okay for tranmissions
[03:09] <stheory> The thing is, there are a couple of military airports near where I live and that has severe complications
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[10:32] <infaddict> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-32921210
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[10:54] <Haxxa> SO this is the opposite of the subs purpose but whats involved in deep ocean recording - could one put a brick on an arduino in an enclosure and expect it to drop to the ocean floor?
[10:54] <Haxxa> *channels
[10:54] <Haxxa> would the presure get to it first
[10:55] <craag> depends how deep I'd assume
[10:56] <craag> Was it you who did the antartic environment sensor project?
[10:56] <Haxxa> craag as in deep ocean floor where the trenches are
[10:56] <Haxxa> extreme cold and presure
[10:56] <craag> How are you planning to get the data back?
[10:57] <Haxxa> Yer release brick and let it float up
[10:57] <craag> fair enough
[10:57] <fsphil> then what?
[10:57] <craag> Yeah - pressure would be your main concern
[10:58] <Haxxa> toggle sat
[10:58] <Haxxa> find it get data
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[10:59] <craag> Have you looked into the pressure values you're talking about?
[10:59] <Haxxa> nah just all thought - know little about this - just seems most tech is super pricey
[11:00] <fsphil> would something like potting survive high pressure?
[11:00] <baird> protip: normal liquids and solids don't compress
[11:00] <craag> Apparently the bottom of the mariana trench compressses water by 4.96%
[11:00] <fsphil> ooch
[11:01] <craag> 15,750 psi
[11:01] <gonzo__> you can test by making a pressure vessel for your kit, fill with water and apply air pressure
[11:01] <gonzo__> but getting more than 10bar safely will be interesting
[11:01] <daveake> Didn't Josh try this? YOu could ask him ....
[11:01] <Haxxa> so wouldn't a metal enclosure (thick) and a brick work?
[11:01] <gonzo__> ohhh, 1000atm nice
[11:02] Action: daveake just spotted that craag's number had a comma not a dp
[11:02] <gonzo__> a gas cylinder is built for about 200bar
[11:02] <gonzo__> so think 5x the job!
[11:02] <craag> Haxxa: Any fixtures in that metal enclosure are going to be 99.9% of your work I think
[11:02] <craag> eg mechanism for releasing the brick
[11:02] <baird> Just fill the probe with something like mineral oil.
[11:03] <gonzo__> and how would you get such a device back up
[11:03] <baird> Then, you could send the thing down in something that's practically a sistema plastic container.
[11:04] <Haxxa> gonzo__, release brick and float up
[11:04] <craag> baird: Then you'd have to make sure that all your electronics can handle the presure
[11:04] <fsphil> would a bare pcb survive the pressure?
[11:05] <craag> ic packages and stuff might get a bit unhappy
[11:05] <craag> crystals lol
[11:05] <fsphil> caps probably won't
[11:05] <fsphil> anything with air or gas is dead
[11:05] <baird> Have none of you done the "squeeze an egg in your hands" experiement?
[11:05] <gonzo__> vacuum pot the whole lot in lots of resin and use that as your pressure enclosure
[11:05] <fsphil> would be fun to try it
[11:06] <fsphil> shame it's so difficult to get to those conditions
[11:06] <fsphil> camera would be crushed pretty quickly
[11:06] <fsphil> so no pics
[11:06] <pc1pcl> according to the internet: "The pressure of Venus' atmosphere at the surface is 90 atmospheres (about the same as the pressure at a depth of 1 km in Earth's oceans)."
[11:07] <Haxxa> so any more opinions - I think any vorm of vaccumm seal would be hassle
[11:07] <craag> Haxxa: I suggest you talk to people who do UAVs and stuff
[11:08] <baird> Camera detector 'potted' with demineralised water..
[11:08] <craag> See how they deal with the pressure on their enclosures
[11:08] <Haxxa> yer fair enough
[11:08] <craag> And then work out if it can actually be done cheaply
[11:09] <craag> I think you'll want to keep any wires/mechanisms coming through the enclosure to a bare minimum.
[11:09] <craag> Like, ideally, none.
[11:10] <Haxxa> craag cheapest I have seen have been $1000 http://www.controlengeurope.com/global/showimage/Article/7553/
[11:10] <craag> But then your sat antenna gets a bit fun ;)
[11:10] <craag> Those ports on the sides are probably a fair proportion of that cost.
[11:11] <craag> I'm guessing you actually want to measure something down there too...
[11:17] <gonzo__> the figures make -5psi in space look simple!
[11:18] <gonzo__> 15
[11:19] <Laurenceb__> arggggg
[11:20] <Laurenceb__> never try to do a joint scientific paper with ~30 authors at multiple institutions
[11:20] <Laurenceb__> especially when only 2 authors actually do any work
[11:20] <Laurenceb__> and you are one of them :S
[11:21] <fsphil> noted
[11:22] <Laurenceb__> there has been an email argument over graphs raging for over 18 months now
[11:23] <Laurenceb__> I've now told everyone theres going to be no more graphs until we reach agreement on format... some hope
[11:23] <Laurenceb__> this is like graph hell
[11:23] <mattbrejza> is there actually any content on the first page or is it just author list?
[11:23] <Laurenceb__> drawing graphs for eternity
[11:23] <Laurenceb__> heh ~50% is authors and affiliations
[11:24] <Laurenceb__> funniest thing is that we are publishing with the royal society
[11:24] <Laurenceb__> so they need a public declaration of authors involvements :P
[11:24] <mattbrejza> oh lol
[11:24] <mattbrejza> it does seem the more senior you are the more papers that have your name but the less total work you actually do
[11:25] <Laurenceb__> not just that
[11:25] <Laurenceb__> the more you troll people via email over stupid details in graph axis labelling, dash styles and font kernelling
[11:26] <Laurenceb__> and simultaneously insist everything is done in matlab, making decent plots impossible
[11:26] <mattbrejza> oh really? i thought everyone had a thing for gnuplot
[11:27] <mattbrejza> at least matlab as antialaising now
[11:27] <mattbrejza> *has
[11:27] <Laurenceb__> not in academia
[11:27] <mattbrejza> well apparently depends where you are then
[11:27] <Laurenceb__> true
[11:27] <mattbrejza> how about latex?
[11:27] <mattbrejza> or xfig?
[11:28] <Laurenceb__> im using latex
[11:28] <Laurenceb__> but they all hate me as a result
[11:28] <Laurenceb__> png and word is the way to work apparently :S
[11:28] <mattbrejza> weird
[11:28] <Laurenceb__> well - this is a joint medical science / mech eng publication
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[11:30] <Laurenceb__> ive basically given up on matlab and resorted to matlab -> postscript -> bash script to fix the postscript
[11:30] <mattbrejza> how do they feel about git?
[11:30] <Laurenceb__> they dont know what it is :P
[11:30] <mattbrejza> no suprise there
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[11:34] <christopherlee> Ch00n0ra09621540
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[11:34] <christopherlee> ignore me wrong keybaord
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[11:35] <mattbrejza> time for a password change? :P
[11:35] <christopherlee> yep
[11:35] <christopherlee> :-(
[11:36] <Laurenceb__> heh
[11:38] <Laurenceb__> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZKiIYvWIUj0
[11:38] <nick_> Laurenceb__: there's always ROOT....
[12:22] <Laurenceb__> calling matlab gurus
[12:22] <Laurenceb__> strings_fore=strsplit(strings_fore_,"\n"){1:end-1}
[12:22] <Laurenceb__> why does that only ever return a single line
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[12:23] <Laurenceb__> strings_fore_ contains lots of \n, but i only get up to the first \n returned as a string
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[12:36] <Mark_B> Good afternoon
[12:38] <Mark_B> Does anyone mind if I do a quick functional check of a tracker I'm hoping to use this weekend? I'd like to send a couple of sentences to spacenear.us
[12:38] <adamgreig> go for it
[12:38] <adamgreig> always fine
[12:39] <Mark_B> Top. Thanks Adam
[12:42] <Mark_B> DOne, thanks.
[12:42] <Mark_B> Bye
[12:58] <Mark_B> Can I get a flight doc approved for this weekend please?
[13:00] <craag> Mark_B: Post the doc id (long string) in #habhub
[13:01] <Mark_B> OK
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[13:35] <tweetBot> @AmsatUK: Drones,#AMSAT Satellites,434MHz Balloon at @EssexHam Shoebury East Beach Field Day, Sun May 31 http://t.co/kHUg3x7sm0 #hamradio #hamr #ukhas
[13:37] <infaddict> filling tube all done. used a standard 40mm end cap and fitted a karting tyre valve to it. http://i.imgur.com/n2ojsZn.jpg
[13:37] <infaddict> http://i.imgur.com/IqiPTei.jpg
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[13:37] <infaddict> tested watertight today and my kart air trigger will fit onto this to pump the helium
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[13:38] <mattbrejza> lol we just used gaffa tape last time...
[13:38] <mattbrejza> it only leaked a little
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[13:40] <infaddict> haha mattbrejza... tried sealing the balloon end temporarily with gaffa tape to test pressure but it leaks like a sieve!
[13:40] <daveake> Nowt wrong with gaffa tape ... http://imgur.com/j7m5Mc3
[13:41] <craag> remember when you're actually filling there isn't much pressure at all
[13:41] <craag> as long as it's a lot easier for the helium to go into the balloon, than push through the gaffa, you'll be fine ;)
[13:42] <infaddict> yer my water test was overkill but could to know its pretty well sealed
[13:42] <infaddict> could/good
[13:42] <craag> yep, and looks pro!
[13:43] <craag> rather than turning up with a couple of bits of pipe and a roll of gaffa ;)
[13:44] <infaddict> i always carry a role of gaffa. its a life rule ;-)
[13:45] <infaddict> my biggest worry is the wind. cant be controlled and i am launching 250 miles from home. long drive to defer launch daily!
[13:45] <daveake> Gaffa is a given; only the colour varies :)
[13:46] <infaddict> how do the CAA take to altering your launch location as well as date?
[13:47] <daveake> If it's before they already did the work on the original site, should be fine
[13:48] <daveake> That said I've had a couple get moved late on, and they've been very helpful
[13:48] <infaddict> my thinking is if wind is bad on my day, i could move the launch site to make the landing site better.
[13:48] <infaddict> but they might not like that
[13:48] <daveake> Give them as much notice as you can
[13:49] <daveake> measure in days not hours :)
[13:52] <infaddict> yep, just a waiting game now for the 10 day forecast and T-7 predictions to start
[13:52] <daveake> I wouldn't get too excited/depressed when you see the first predictions
[13:52] <infaddict> mmm been doing them daily recently to get a feel. changes radically.
[13:53] <infaddict> even hourly sometimes
[13:53] <daveake> Do you have an hourly set up for you?
[13:53] <infaddict> no, i am running it manually at moment. is there a better way?
[13:54] <daveake> Yeah PM Upu* when he's around
[13:54] <daveake> I know it's tempting, but try to ignore it till you're 4 days from launch
[13:55] <infaddict> but its sooooo tempting!
[13:56] <daveake> Oh, I know
[13:56] <infaddict> i think i'm going for ballonium instead of BOC cylinders
[13:56] <infaddict> based on connection and size i need
[13:57] <daveake> yup so would I
[13:57] <infaddict> tried going direct to air products for balloonium but they only offer 7 day hire otherwise its 40p a day and still pricey for gas itself.
[13:57] <infaddict> so going thru a reseller instead
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[13:58] <infaddict> fyi http://balloonhelium.co.uk/ now do balloonium but not on their site yet
[13:58] <daveake> They used to ages ago
[13:58] <daveake> Stopped in 2012
[13:58] <infaddict> ah right. lady on phone suggested it was new, that would be why then
[13:59] <infaddict> so i'm going for the X20 midi which is 5.21m3
[13:59] <tridor> Hi folks, trying to making progress on my Arduino based tracker.........got this working https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2........
[13:59] <daveake> Presumably you did the usual convo ... "How many balloons are you filling?" "Just the one"
[13:59] <tridor> and this http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=738
[14:00] <infaddict> ha yer daveake, she asked me that on phone. i said one. a big one.
[14:00] <infaddict> hey tridor
[14:00] <tridor> but no idea how to get the gps to send it's date on the ntx2b
[14:00] <tridor> hi
[14:00] <daveake> Well that's the bit where you have to write your own code
[14:00] <tridor> looked at http://www.habduino.org/
[14:00] <tridor> any other pointers??
[14:00] <daveake> best not to
[14:00] <infaddict> so you have RTTY test beacon working ok?
[14:00] <daveake> best to write your own, 1 step at a time
[14:01] <tridor> i can pick up an rtty signal from the ntx2b
[14:01] <infaddict> ok that is a good start. is it decoding properly i.e. its a good RTTY signal
[14:01] <mattbrejza> 0x3A28213A
[14:01] <mattbrejza> 0X6339392C
[14:01] <tridor> very clear signal, sounds like examples i have listened to on the Internet
[14:01] <mattbrejza> 0X7363682E
[14:01] <adamgreig> har har
[14:02] <mattbrejza> glad someone got it
[14:02] <adamgreig> tridor: can you actually.. decode it
[14:02] <daveake> took me a mo :)
[14:02] <infaddict> ok. have you tried using dl-fldigi to decode it
[14:02] <infaddict> listening isnt good enough ;-)
[14:02] <infaddict> the guide shows you how to do that
[14:03] <tridor> do i need to create a payload doc to decode using dl-fldigi?
[14:03] <infaddict> no
[14:03] <infaddict> you can set the settings manually
[14:03] <infaddict> e.g. 7bit ascii no parity
[14:03] <infaddict> the guide tells you how
[14:03] <infaddict> using Op Mode -> RTTY -> Custom
[14:03] <tridor> ok, i'll have a play with dl-fldigi and probably get back to you, thanks again
[14:04] <infaddict> np. once you have that RTTY working, think about how you would substitute fixed data ("TEST BEACON") with real data.
[14:04] <infaddict> many other parts you need to develop in isolation before it all comes together
[14:04] <infaddict> e.g. GPS code
[14:05] <tridor> i'm no coder, but giving it a good shot, pulling the individual parts together is a challenge :-)
[14:05] <infaddict> haha mattbrejza just got it
[14:06] <infaddict> take it slow tridor. work on separate pieces of code at a time. so try to get your GPS code just writing out some info from the GPS at first.
[14:06] <infaddict> dont intergrate that GPS code with the RTTY yet
[14:06] <infaddict> otherwise too complex
[14:07] <infaddict> btw what GPS are you using?
[14:08] <tridor> ublox max-m8q - HAB supplies said that was the one for Arduino
[14:08] <number10> balloons to N Korea http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-32921210
[14:09] <infaddict> yep tridor very good little GPS module, same as what i have
[14:09] <infaddict> my advice would be to spend a long time reading the very good uBlox documents on their website related to how to talk to their GPS
[14:10] <infaddict> theres tons of code to copy but as daveake advised, its better to build your own up piece by piece so your understand it. sure, look at and even copy lines once you know what they do, but dont just paste a tone of code.
[14:10] <tridor> ok, thanks
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[14:31] <Laurenceb__> http://science.slashdot.org/story/15/05/29/130211/crowdfunded-solar-powered-spacecraft-goes-silent
[14:31] <Laurenceb__> seriously...
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
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[14:32] <SpeedEvil> It seems that some HA experience from people who have actually flown payloads would be useful.
[14:32] <Laurenceb__> i dont know where to start...
[14:32] <SpeedEvil> I mean - pretty much a basic step is 'turn on for expected mission duration and see if it works'
[14:32] <Laurenceb__> do they even realise linux support watchdog timers...
[14:32] <Laurenceb__> *supports
[14:33] <SpeedEvil> Well, that may not help if it gets into a reboot loop
[14:33] <Laurenceb__> if they insist on using linux
[14:33] <adamgreig> oh my god though
[14:34] <adamgreig> it's kind of a horrific compound problem
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[14:34] <adamgreig> why are they writing to beacon.csv in the first place? no rotation? why does 32MB crash it? why is there no watchdog? why indeed are they running linux? why did they not test it for more than two days? how did no one see this coming? why does the remote command not work?
[14:35] <adamgreig> there's a litany of places where this could have been caught
[14:35] <SpeedEvil> Why is there no emergency CPU
[14:35] <eroomde> yes like leaving it on a fewndays
[14:35] <eroomde> few days*
[14:36] <adamgreig> "The manufacturer of the avionics board corrected this glitch in later software revisions. But alas, LightSails software version doesnt include the update."
[14:36] <adamgreig> I guess they bought a COTS "cubesat avionics board"
[14:36] <adamgreig> jeez
[14:36] <adamgreig> and we thought commercial HAB payloads would be the end of the world
[14:36] <Laurenceb__> you get 1/(what you pay for)
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[14:37] <adamgreig> apparently getting your cubesat put into orbit really is getting a bit too easy :P
[14:38] <SpeedEvil> What's next. Shooting payloads into space from a balloon-gun?
[14:38] <adamgreig> Since we cant send anyone into space to reboot LightSail, we may have to wait for the spacecraft to reboot on its own. Spacecraft are susceptible to charged particles zipping through deep space, many of which get trapped inside Earths magnetic field. If one of these particles strikes an electronics component in just the right way, it can cause a reboot.
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[14:38] <SpeedEvil> adamgreig: lol
[14:38] <Babs____> Afternoon everyone
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[14:38] <Laurenceb__> SpeedEvil: well now that you mention it...
[14:39] <Laurenceb__> space guns look very cool
[14:39] <Laurenceb__> if my sim code is correct....
[14:39] <adamgreig> oh my god
[14:39] <adamgreig> it just gets better
[14:39] <Babs____> 3 questions - 1. If I stack up a few sentences then transmit in a burst, does spacenear look at the time stamps on the strings and compensate for the fact that it has received them after the event?
[14:39] <adamgreig> In the meantime, the team is looking at several fixes to work around the software vulnerability once contact is reestablished. One is a Linux file redirect that would send the contents of the troublesome beacon.csv file to a null location, a sort-of software black hole. Lab testing on this fix has been promisingover a gigabyte of beacon packets have already been sent into nothingness without a system
[14:39] <adamgreig> freeze.
[14:40] <staylo> But there's always the chance it will run out of null, so we'll keep testing.
[14:40] <Laurenceb__> lol
[14:40] <adamgreig> lab testing on piping the file to /dev/null is "promising" with over a gigabyte successfully dropped on the floor so far
[14:40] <Babs____> 2. Is it antisocial to just transmit say once every 10 minutes and expect people to continue listening in ?
[14:40] <Laurenceb__> wonder if they can load a proper RTOS on it in orbit
[14:40] <Laurenceb__> sounds very risky
[14:40] <adamgreig> Babs____: yes, you can stack up, that's fine
[14:41] <adamgreig> every 10min is usually a poor idea because of frequency drift making it hard to get decoding locked on
[14:41] <Babs____> 3. Is there a trajectory forecast that is Pico suitable ?
[14:41] <adamgreig> do you mean float?
[14:41] <Babs____> Yes exactly
[14:41] <adamgreig> pico is kind of a meaningless word here now
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:41] <adamgreig> anyway yea - you can use the normal predictor and just set the burst alt to your float alt and the descent rate to be very very small, or
[14:41] <adamgreig> you can also use the other cute thing, uhm
[14:42] <Laurenceb__> just stick ChibiOS or NuttX on it FFS
[14:42] <adamgreig> which lz1dev can explain
[14:43] <Laurenceb__> SpeedEvil: annoyingly I have too much other stuff to work on besides space guns :-/
[14:43] <Laurenceb__> but I want to find a CFD + reaction sim package to look at the problem properly
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> Bah
[14:43] <Babs____> Great, thanks adamgreig
[14:43] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: SpaceX have methane + O2 code
[14:44] <Laurenceb__> ? opensource
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> Alas not.
[14:44] <Laurenceb__> lol who cares then
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> They track a _ridiculous_ number of reactants.
[14:44] <Laurenceb__> atm i have some nasty hacked together stuff that sort of works
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> IIRC ~50 for just methane/oxygen
[14:44] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: we all do that
[14:44] <Laurenceb__> sounds like dunn space stuff
[14:44] <Laurenceb__> yeah thats standard
[14:44] <eroomde> most chemical equilibrium codes track all those species
[14:45] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:45] <eroomde> don't be blinded by shiny youtube vids, that's normal
[14:45] <Laurenceb__> lol
[14:45] <Laurenceb__> SpeedEvil: basically I've grabbed some of that code and combined with some slightly nasty CFD
[14:46] <Laurenceb__> its says that theres a combustion light gas gun mode where you force a slug of propellant to stick to the bottom of the projectile
[14:46] <Laurenceb__> that gives crazy performance if its real - back of envelope cals suggest its feasible
[14:47] <Laurenceb__> but even if its feasible, the effect is quite geometry/ timing sensitive
[14:48] <Laurenceb__> atm its saying 5km/s for a 25gram projectile from a 6m long, 1 inch CF tube, 2mm wall thickness
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> hah
[14:50] <Laurenceb__> 4500psi H2/O2 loaded with one of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIeNZWuNL7g
[14:51] <SpeedEvil> What would that weigh? 2.4kg?
[14:52] <Laurenceb__> something like that, yeah
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> I guess you need a lot of external bracing
[14:52] <Laurenceb__> maybe - it could hang off the balloon
[14:53] <SpeedEvil> yeah - but do you really have confidence that 6m will be straight to ~1mm or whatever
[14:53] <Laurenceb__> its not really a gun - more of a rocket in a tube with no propellant tank
[14:53] <Laurenceb__> yeah, good point
[14:53] <SpeedEvil> Cornering is hard at 5km/s. :)
[14:53] <Laurenceb__> heh
[14:54] <Laurenceb__> yeah i wouldnt suggest building such a beast
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> I would really love to give you a million to screw with it.
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> I haven't checked bitcoin - has it gone up to 3 million dollars a bitcoin?
[14:55] <Laurenceb__> ~3Kg of TNT equivalent
[14:55] <Laurenceb__> the cost would be very low
[14:56] <Laurenceb__> about £1k for the entire thing
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> yeah - but getting insurance after you accidentally shoot down ISS...
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> I guess it doesn't scale?
[14:58] <Laurenceb__> i dunno
[14:59] <Laurenceb__> my current code becomes numerically unstable beyond 100mm bore :-/
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[15:12] <Laurenceb__> http://i.imgur.com/jTI81yK.png
[15:12] <Laurenceb__> first peak = gun mode, second peak = "gun-rocket" mode
[15:13] <SpeedEvil> wierd
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[15:13] <Laurenceb__> normal gun would decay exponentially after first peak
[15:16] <SpeedEvil> The gun shoots a slug of unburned propellant forward at the rocket?
[15:16] <SpeedEvil> which then acts like a rocket
[15:16] <Laurenceb__> yes
[15:16] <SpeedEvil> err - 'at the projetile'
[15:16] <Laurenceb__> yup
[15:17] <SpeedEvil> Are you modelling this as 1d?
[15:23] <Laurenceb__> no, 2d cylindrical
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[15:34] <Babs____> Another random question
[15:35] <Laurenceb__> "come to the post-graduate jobs fair"
[15:35] <Laurenceb__> "attendees... 22. Aldi"
[15:35] Action: Laurenceb__ facepalms
[15:35] <Babs____> If I have a tracker transmitting on rtty 434 is transmitting on aprs simply a matter of subbing in a different transmitter into the tracker and subbing in a different transmitting subroutine into the program?
[15:36] <Babs____> Making sure I don't do aprs in UK airspace obvs
[15:36] <craag> Babs____: yep!
[15:37] <craag> Err, assuming they have the same interface to the processor
[15:37] <Babs____> Yes of course
[15:37] <craag> :)
[15:37] <Babs____> Is there an aprs subroutine anywhere that I could take a look at on the wiki?
[15:38] <Babs____> (Assuming you young guns still use the phrase subroutine and know what I am going on about)
[15:38] <craag> A lot of it depends on what transmitter you use
[15:38] <Laurenceb__> if there is
[15:38] <Laurenceb__> you dont want to see it
[15:38] <Laurenceb__> aprs is horrible
[15:38] <craag> You can use the HX1, and feed in the 'audio'
[15:39] <Laurenceb__> id rather look at matlab...
[15:39] <craag> Take a look at the habduino code for that maybe?
[15:39] <Babs____> Ok cool thanks
[15:39] <Babs____> I am
[15:39] <Babs____> Using an mtx2, and I heard they do a aprs frequency compatible one
[15:40] <craag> Ah ok, that would be the same then.
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[15:41] <craag> Warning: It's very messy, involves lots of pwm n stuff
[15:42] <Babs____> That doesn't sound promising
[15:42] <Babs____> I tend to progress using steps smaller than my baby can manage
[15:42] <Babs____> And she can't walk yet either
[15:43] <Babs____> I'll have a look - thinking forward to launching in the us and having lower numbers of tracking bods over there
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[15:56] Nick change: pd3t -> pb1dft
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[16:01] <garymortimer> Look out I'm here to jump in with silly questions, I notice you sat APRS is horrible Laurenceb I have been watching several American balloons and they all seem to lose tracking. The one that used it near me did as well and the RTTY kept on coming through so what gives?
[16:01] <garymortimer> said APRS was horrid not sat
[16:04] <garymortimer> Having said that N2 JAC 1 is going well on it and has a box wind it seems its heading home
[16:07] <Laurenceb__> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=7481843&cid=49799397
[16:08] <garymortimer> I wonder if the decent tracking is because its passing home and there is a decent setup, the other two seem to be not being tracked quite so well. I have been wondering what advantage APRS has over RTTY when it works so well.
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> hah
[16:08] <SpeedEvil> Aww - I have no mod points
[16:09] <craag> garymortimer: APRS uses existing, unattended infrastructure
[16:09] <garymortimer> Ah that would be it
[16:09] <craag> so if you're flying over russia or somewhere, you're probably not going to have anyone listening on rtty, and actively tuning in
[16:09] <craag> however all you need is to get 1 aprs packet to an igate, and you've got data!
[16:10] <craag> B-64 discovered a few updates in the countryside of russia iirc
[16:10] <craag> s/updates/igates/
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[16:10] <craag> 20 minutes til work not on the mind...
[16:12] <garymortimer> why does it not seem to work as well if you watch balloons on the map using it? Is there a local data way that those guys are seeing ?? I set up SARTrack yesterday and UZ7 something to decode the packets and have been decoding local traffic to try and get a handle on it. I knew about RTTY I used a VIC-20 to decode way back when
[16:12] <craag> aprs is a shared channel, often with no listen-before-talk, so you get packet collisions that mean not all get through
[16:13] <craag> also aprs transmitters don't tend to be great
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[16:13] <craag> Things like having the right deviation are often 'cured' by the application of more RF power
[16:14] <garymortimer> Ah, I see tat Jac payload might be close to launch on landing if the predictions right. Thats impressive
[16:14] <craag> Done properly (eg. B-* with ~30mW), it can work well
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[16:16] <Laurenceb__> http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=2519147A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=20150415&DB=worldwide.espacenet.com&locale=en_EP
[16:18] <mattbrejza> is that everything now public?
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[16:19] <Laurenceb__> looks like it
[16:19] <Laurenceb__> impressive CAd work
[16:19] <Laurenceb__> looks like processed renderings
[16:20] <garymortimer> So to put it another way. If you launch 3 payloads as the N series have in the USA all out of comms now why would'nt you put RTTY on as well. Very little weight penalty. I get it for the round the worlds but not these??
[16:20] <mattbrejza> so what exactly is the secret that stopped it icing up?
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[16:23] <anerdev> hey hey guys =D
[16:24] <Laurenceb__> dunno yet...
[16:25] <mattbrejza> hmm just an application so far
[16:25] <mattbrejza> only UK?
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[16:27] <Laurenceb__> antifreeze injector
[16:27] <Laurenceb__> lol
[16:27] <Laurenceb__> they claimed it didnt involve that
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[16:37] <Vaizki> great to see some old world science around stuff like this, hope it pans out
[16:38] <Laurenceb__> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37386.0
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[17:24] <SpeedEvil> http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/ADXL362.pdf
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> 270nA @2V wakeup from an accel
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> And 512 entry fifo, for 'pre-wake' shakes
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[17:28] <mattbrejza> and 2uA active current (100Hz)
[17:28] <mattbrejza> geez
[17:29] <Laurenceb__> less than stm32 with RTC
[17:29] <Laurenceb__> (for make mode)
[17:30] <Laurenceb__> having said that, ive got a datalogger thats leaking 127µA through a regulator...
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[17:30] <Laurenceb__> so these things are all irrelevant compared to checking datasheets
[17:30] <Laurenceb__> still good enough for ~8months standby
[17:32] <Laurenceb__> LTC1844 is quite good iirc
[17:32] <mattbrejza> mind you even the cheapest part on farnell can do 7uA active if you push it (1.5Hz out)
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> 40mWh/decade
[17:33] <SpeedEvil> silly
[17:33] <Laurenceb__> pity there isnt a low power transmit technique
[17:33] <Laurenceb__> for pico balloons
[17:34] <Laurenceb__> long wave ir harvesting looked like the best bet to me, if you want to transmit at night
[17:34] <SpeedEvil> yeah
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[18:38] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[20:33] <day> what is the reason for this giant peak in the center of the SDR spectrum display?
[20:34] <arko> DC
[20:34] <day> DC @100Mhz?
[20:36] <arko> turn on Correct IQ
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[20:41] <arko> better?
[20:42] <day> well the peak is gone. but its strange. im not even able to see radio stations o0
[20:43] <arko> it's the dc offset from the output of the downconverter i think
[20:43] <arko> there's always a little dc
[20:44] <day> yeah when i started the program for the first time dc was centered so i assumed its DC noise, but then it kept staying in the middle while i was scrolling, which seemed odd to me
[20:44] <adamgreig> it's to do with how most SDRs work
[20:44] <adamgreig> they are not sampling at 100MHz, right
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[20:44] <adamgreig> they sample at say 10MS/s
[20:44] <adamgreig> (mega samples per second)
[20:45] <adamgreig> so the RF at 100MHz gets downconverted to 0Hz and you sample around that
[20:45] <adamgreig> which means any DC on the ADC input (which is very often present) will appear as a big signal right on your local oscillator
[20:45] <day> anyways im getting signals: http://i.imgur.com/u91odtH.jpg no idea what that is. But i dont get anything around 106Mhz/91Mhz (where two strong FM radio stations are)
[20:45] <adamgreig> using "correct iq" or similar is usually a bit of a kludge, I recommend tuning the LO to something less than what you want so the DC peak is not an issue
[20:46] <arko> ohhh
[20:46] <arko> thats a good idea
[20:46] <day> thats what i did before :P
[20:47] <adamgreig> those signals are pretty weird
[20:47] <day> another thing that i noticed. FM stations are giant in a tutorial i saw (width) the once here that MIGHT be FM radios are just little spikes
[20:48] <day> adamgreig: yeah they look odd dont they? thoguht the same
[20:48] <day> i even get them without antenna...
[20:49] <adamgreig> yea... probably that's internal noise or something
[20:49] <arko> kinda looks like an FM signal where the message waveform is a constant sine or something
[20:49] <arko> but i dont know what im tallking about here :P
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[20:56] <Vaizki> fm broadcast transmitters are so strong you should be able to see them almost any antenna...
[20:57] <day> Vaizki: there definitely is a strong transmitter around 106.5Mhz here. Here is what my stick shows me http://i.imgur.com/KuwJVPk.png
[20:57] <Vaizki> and they are 200kHz wide peaks
[20:58] <Vaizki> nope
[20:58] <day> doesnt look good does it? :D
[20:58] <Vaizki> nope
[20:58] Nick change: Upu_ -> Upu
[20:58] <day> any idea what im doing wrong?
[20:59] <Vaizki> did you increase RF gain from the settings?
[20:59] <Vaizki> the third "cog" icon in the toolbad
[20:59] <Vaizki> toolbar
[20:59] <day> i even put that thing on the screenshot :D
[21:00] <Vaizki> haha so you did
[21:00] <Vaizki> I have too many windows open
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[21:01] <j0nnynmac> yo
[21:01] <Vaizki> change to WFM mode first of all
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[21:01] <day> i tried all of them
[21:02] <day> they just make my ears bleed in different ways :P
[21:03] <day> i had one issue during the installation
[21:04] <day> i had to reinstall the driver via zadig
[21:04] <day> just an idea..
[21:04] <Vaizki> http://i.imgur.com/GK2K5OC.png
[21:04] <Vaizki> for comparison..
[21:04] <day> yeah i know, thats how they look in the youtube vid. that i saw as well :/
[21:04] <Vaizki> random dongle with included dvb-t whip
[21:04] <day> thats why i tend to think it might be a driver issue
[21:05] <Vaizki> yea could be
[21:07] <tweetBot> @M6EDF: Fun day of radio, ballooning and drones in #essex this Sunday! https://t.co/k9phCsIxnw @EssexHam #hamr #ukhas
[21:07] <Vaizki> I can't remember where I put my airspy....
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[21:08] <day> do i need WinUSB or libusb or libusbK?
[21:08] <adamgreig> if you're seeing that data i doubt it's a driver issue
[21:09] <day> but im not living in a bunker :/
[21:09] <adamgreig> well, actually, who knows. could be
[21:19] <Vaizki> I never had any issues with the zadig drivers myself but I've heard horror stories
[21:20] <day> i tried all of them. nothing changed :/
[21:21] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
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[22:10] <anerdev> hey guys =D
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[22:16] <SpeedEvil> hy
[22:16] <j0nnynmac> hey there
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[22:17] <j0nnynmac> just read that there are two sites in cambridge with rolling permission to launch
[22:17] <j0nnynmac> whereabouts are they?
[22:17] <Upu> sort of
[22:17] <Upu> you need to contact the site owners to see if they can accomodate you
[22:17] <Upu> they aren't public
[22:17] <j0nnynmac> ok
[22:17] <Upu> one is Churchill College, the other is near the village of Elsworth
[22:18] <eroomde> they're in cambridge
[22:19] <j0nnynmac> are there details available on who & where these folks are? ill see if i can sort something out
[22:19] <j0nnynmac> sorry
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[22:19] <j0nnynmac> screen didnt scroll
[22:19] <eroomde> cambridge university spacelfight
[22:19] <eroomde> cusf.co.uk
[22:19] <eroomde> for churchill college
[22:19] <adamgreig> spacefight, oh man
[22:19] <adamgreig> now there's a society I would join
[22:19] <eroomde> rocketboy (steve randall) for elsworth
[22:21] <j0nnynmac> is rocketboy a frequent visitor on this channel?
[22:21] <eroomde> yes
[22:32] <j0nnynmac> great
[22:32] <j0nnynmac> thanks!!
[22:35] <eroomde> cusf might be nearer than you think tho
[22:35] <eroomde> they are sometimes on this channel even
[22:35] <adamgreig> it's been known to happen
[22:35] <adamgreig> you can email contact@cusf.co.uk to ask about using the launch site, including an indication of roughly when you want the launch
[22:36] <adamgreig> the main restrictions are that right now most of the students in CUSF have exams or are going to leave the university for the summer vacation, so it's not the most ideal time of year
[22:36] <adamgreig> some of them are unlucky enough to be postgraduates and stuck here all year though
[22:36] <eroomde> but they are often bendable via a curry at the end of a launch day
[22:37] <adamgreig> that can dramatically improve chances of finding a suitable time :P
[22:44] <j0nnynmac> ooohh
[22:44] <j0nnynmac> sorry for delay in replying
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/3fhOfNw
[22:44] <j0nnynmac> just popped a note to the cusf email address
[22:44] <SpeedEvil> Why lightning rods are important, and god hates churches.
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[22:46] <j0nnynmac> a curry sounds like an epic form of barter
[22:47] <j0nnynmac> consider the curry sorted!
[22:48] <j0nnynmac> was looking around the 10 > 15th June if that were possible
[22:51] <adamgreig> hmm, the good news is that a few people might well be around then, the bad news is I won't be personally until the 20th, alas
[22:52] <adamgreig> will try and find out and get back to you soon
[22:52] <adamgreig> (in case it wasn't clear, I'm one of the postgraduates involved in CUSF)
[22:52] <adamgreig> (I realise it wasn't clear)_
[22:53] <j0nnynmac> :)
[22:53] <j0nnynmac> i got there in the end
[22:54] <j0nnynmac> aaah shame you wont be there :(
[22:54] <j0nnynmac> hmm let me see if there is flexibility there
[22:55] <adamgreig> I'm at a conference in another country so would struggle!
[22:55] <adamgreig> we'll find out if anyone else is around, you'd be in capable hands one way or another
[22:55] <j0nnynmac> i know the Imperials have to do the writ up by a certain ate
[22:56] <j0nnynmac> date
[22:56] <j0nnynmac> even
[22:56] <adamgreig> nothing more motivating than a good deadline!
[22:56] <j0nnynmac> brilliant - im sure - thanks - really appreciate it
[22:57] <j0nnynmac> yes - thankfully for them i have no art in that
[22:57] <j0nnynmac> part
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[23:04] <_charlie> hi
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[23:45] <fsphil> howdy
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[00:00] --- Sat May 30 2015