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[08:47] <stheory> Hi everyone, we are working on a high-altitude balloon project and we need help with selecting a radio system.
[08:48] <eroomde> well coming here is a good first step
[08:49] <eroomde> what research have you done so far
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[08:50] <stheory> We have sorted out the GPS module, flight computer (arduino), and sensors
[08:50] <stheory> But selecting a reliable radio system is a challenge because we don't have a HAM license
[08:50] <eroomde> having a ham license doesn't affect the choice of radio
[08:50] <eroomde> in the UK anyway
[08:50] <eroomde> where are you absed?
[08:50] <stheory> we're in india
[08:50] <eroomde> oh
[08:51] <eroomde> well you'll need to check your local laws. I don't know of anyone in this room familiar with indian radio regulations, perhaps someone can speak up if they are
[08:51] <stheory> We've looked into this one: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9411
[08:51] <eroomde> often, but not always, you will have regulations pertaining to 'license free' radio usage
[08:51] <stheory> it doesn't require a HAM license but it's rather expensive
[08:52] <eroomde> those are combinations of freuqnecy and power that don't need a license to use - usually because the power levels are low
[08:52] <eroomde> are you sure it doesn't ened a ham license in india?
[08:52] <eroomde> the laws are strictly per-country
[08:52] <eroomde> so just seeing something on an american website saying license-free has no bearing on whether or not you can use it
[08:52] <stheory> Is a ham license required even if we don't need a callsign?
[08:53] <eroomde> you *must* look at your local laws
[08:53] <eroomde> asking me is pointless
[08:53] <mfa298> stheory: when looking at "license free" radio modules you probably want to look at your countries regulations as they may be more restrictive than the module gives (not neccessarily an issue if you can configure the modules)
[08:53] <eroomde> regardless, read this https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[08:53] <eroomde> and the wiki generally
[08:54] <stheory> In any case, laws notwithstanding, which radio module is a good solution?
[08:54] <eroomde> see above
[08:55] <eroomde> read this too http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1732
[08:56] <stheory> Thank you, we've already looked into that - is only the 425-480 MHz band suitable?
[08:56] <eroomde> no you can use other things
[08:56] <mfa298> Looks like India is ITU region 3 so might be closer to Australian rules than UK or USA. But you still need to check for your contry in detail.
[08:57] <stheory> In any case, any receiver for the above purpose looks very expensive and we're looking for a more cost-effective solution
[08:58] <eroomde> which receiver specifically
[08:58] <eroomde> or are you discounting all receivers
[08:58] <eroomde> inlcuing the $10 ones in the link i gave you which you said you read
[08:58] <stheory> specifically the Yaesu FT-817
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[08:59] <mfa298> which based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band might mean very limited set of bands (433 and 900 aren't listed for region 3)
[08:59] <eroomde> right well read the links i sent you, including the stuff about SDR
[08:59] <eroomde> you have a lot of reading to do before you can ask useful questions
[08:59] <eroomde> so i'm going to leave this for now
[08:59] <eroomde> good luck
[08:59] <stheory> thank you the assistance!
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[09:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> stheory, This might help http://www.wpc.dot.gov.in/Docfiles/National%20Frequency%20Allocation%20Plan-2011.pdf
[09:04] <stheory> Geoff-G8DHE-M, thank you!
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[09:07] <eroomde> stheory: you might wish to ask stilldavid about his experience with those radio modules for ballooning
[09:07] <eroomde> i believe he's used them
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[09:09] <michal_f> hi
[09:11] <stheory> eroomde, after reading those links I get the impression that SDR isn't reliable for high-altitude communication
[09:12] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Not sure why you got that impression ?
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[09:12] <stheory> Geoff-G8DHE-M, https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
[09:12] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> SDR Software Defined radio is as reliable as hardware based radio and much more flexible
[09:12] <stheory> "Warning. I don't know if mine is broken but its totally useless at receiving actual in the air HABs. Ok for testing but it drifts badly too. I would appreciate anyone else who has uses these giving some feed back thanks - Upu"
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[09:13] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I think thats getting a bit old then, Upu now uses an Airspy and has used Dongles quite happily in the past
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[09:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I have two Dongles and an Airspy and they all get used for tracking HAB flights no problem
[09:14] <stheory> excellent, thank you
[09:14] <stheory> how much do those modules cost?
[09:14] <craag> A filtered preamp can help massively with improving the performance of an rtlsdr
[09:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> with colinear aerials I can track out a 10mW transmitter to 300-400Km no problem
[09:14] <stheory> sweet
[09:14] <tweetBot> @crispSV: #J43VHF AEOLUS-2WAY ground station https://t.co/mALSPiAIL0 via @YouTube #amsat #hamr #ukhas #hamradio
[09:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Dongle about $15 Airspy $150
[09:15] <dbrooke> stheory: regarding that Sparkfun link you posted, it says "Note: Due to manufacturers restrictions in other countries, we can only ship these to the USA and Canada. Sorry world!"
[09:17] <eroomde> there are 868 versions available internationally
[09:17] <eroomde> i've used them before
[09:17] <eroomde> but just for ~1km range (robotic airship project i've probably linked to a bunch before)
[09:18] <stheory> Will we see a massive improvement using a 300mW transmitter over the 10mW one?
[09:18] <stheory> Note the 300mW is on 144 MHz and the 10mW is on 400ish MHz
[09:18] <dbrooke> Ah, fair enough eroomde
[09:19] <daveake> stheory No point asking about range on different powers/frequencies until you find out what you can legally fly
[09:24] <michal_f> any kind of RTL based dongles are particulary recommended for HABing?
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[09:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Currently the R820T2 is the best available
[09:25] <michal_f> I need to get one and wonder which one
[09:26] <stheory> Geoff-G8DHE-M, is this all one needs for tracking the balloon? What does the airspy do?
[09:26] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The Airspy uses one internally but then uses other chips as well
[09:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The Airspy is MUCH mor stable, also has a better Dynamic range i.e. it handles stronger signals much better
[09:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> the cheaper dongles don't handle strong signals at all well and cause whats termed crossmodulation where a strong signal interferes with weak ones
[09:27] <michal_f> hmm....
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[09:28] <stheory> Interesting, so maybe a 10mW would end up to work better than a 300mW with a cheap receiver!
[09:28] <michal_f> Geoff-G8DHE I already have AirSpy, but wanted to try this: http://www.rtl-sdr.com/rtl-sdr-tutorial-measuring-filter-characteristics-and-antenna-vswr-with-an-rtl-sdr-and-noise-source/
[09:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Its worth having available a Pre-Amp or LNA with extra filtering such as the HABAmp as well to eliminaate strong out of band signals
[09:29] <michal_f> do you think this would work with AirSPy ? The software used in tutorial is for RTL based dongles
[09:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> No reason not to play with sme of the Dongles I started with some E4000 based dongles then moved onto the Airspy when it became available
[09:30] <michal_f> AirSpy if for my base station, I also need smth for a chase car
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[09:30] <daveake> When the cheap SDRs cost not much more than a few adapters, and come with 2 adapters and a cable, there's little argument not to buy at least 1
[09:31] <michal_f> daveake do you think smth. less than AirSpy could work for a chase car ?
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[09:31] <UpuWork> The cozycave ones are cheap
[09:31] <UpuWork> Personally I'd use something decent in the car
[09:31] <UpuWork> as thats what recovers your payload
[09:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The main SDR software all support Airspy SDR# SD-Radio etc.
[09:32] <stheory> UpuWork, why did you remark SDRs are not reliable in your tutorial
[09:32] <daveake> But as Geoff-G8DHE-M says, the Airspy is very very good. When testing with an original FCD I get lots of crossmodulation (so much so it's difficult to see the actual signal); with the Airspy I get none (well nothing noticeable)
[09:32] <UpuWork> because they aren't
[09:32] <UpuWork> they are find for testing
[09:32] <michal_f> my costs grow rapidly :)
[09:32] <UpuWork> and with a filter should be ok
[09:32] <UpuWork> but I wouldn't rely on one
[09:33] <michal_f> there's an AirSpy reseller for europe now, I wonder what's the price
[09:33] <fsphil> I couldn't find one
[09:33] <UpuWork> I would strongly recommend the Airspy
[09:34] <michal_f> from may 26: https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/airspy/conversations/messages/2049
[09:34] <fsphil> though I see the airspy page now links to one
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[09:34] <fsphil> https://secquest.co.uk/
[09:34] <fsphil> typical, they add that after I order :)
[09:34] <fsphil> mine is coming from iteadstudio.com
[09:34] <michal_f> ouch
[09:34] <UpuWork> delivery from Itead doesn't take long
[09:35] <michal_f> it was ~3 weeks for me, to Poland
[09:35] <fsphil> hmmm
[09:35] <fsphil> secquest.co.uk has no shop
[09:35] <fsphil> that's, useful
[09:36] <gonzo_> there is a uk agent for airspy now
[09:36] <michal_f> so do you know if rtl_power will work with AirSpy? Or do I need a dongle anyway
[09:36] <gonzo_> ah, beat me to it!
[09:38] <mfa298> stheory: in some places you see sdr it may mean rtl-sdr (i.e. the cheap $10 dongles). e.g. when it's suggested they're only really suitable for testing. Other sdrs (funcube Pro+, Airspy, HackRF, BladeRF etc) are good for chasing (although some people prefer a real radio with knobs you can adjust easily in a moving car).
[09:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Never used RTL_power, I would look at SDR# or SDR-Radio and similar both are free
[09:39] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> rtl_power is more about spectrum recording
[09:39] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> than radio signal reception
[09:39] <mfa298> however real radios generally have a more limited receive range which might not work with modules on other frequencies (depending on whatever you discover is legal in your area)
[09:39] <stheory> so using those $10 dongles isn't gonna fly for a balloon project?
[09:40] <infaddic_> Interesting that the "Information Security" company SecQuest site is using obselete SHA-1 encryption
[09:40] <mfa298> people have used them to chase with, but most people here wouldn't recommend it as your only means of chasing
[09:40] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> No it will work, but you may need to be a bit mkore careful and consider boxing the seperate modules up
[09:41] <fsphil> I wouldn't rely on one, but useful to have
[09:41] <stheory> Given that these modules are so cheap, I think we could work it out using two of them for redundancy
[09:41] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> hence why always buy two of cheap things ;-)
[09:41] <infaddic_> I'm using a rtl dongle in conjunction with HabAmp as my main chase kit. I have a spare rtl dongle just in case. I'll take my chances and upgrade to AirSpy later.
[09:41] <eroomde> buy one for testing and playing
[09:44] <fsphil> and as a bonus you can watch TV on it
[09:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> if you get the TV software as well ;-)
[09:45] <infaddic_> i didnt like having the dongle sticking out side of laptop (bit flimsy) so boxed the PCB up with amp in an enclosure (inspired by Geoff, I think it was)
[09:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/HABAMP_and_DONGLE/
[09:46] <mfa298> stheory: you potentially want to determine what's legal to use first. If you can only used pre-made modules with no or limited control of the modulation you may find the sdr isn't much use (although worth having to listen around the radio bands)
[09:52] <michal_f> ok, I just bought one for 25$
[09:54] <daveake> And when you replace the TV dongle with something better, you can use it to build an ADS-B rx station, or APRS iGate, or something
[09:55] <daveake> or watch telly I suppose
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[10:28] <mfa298> daveake: I did start looking at building a more fancy pvr using a couple of dongles, although I don't think they liked being in a VM that much.
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[10:41] <Vaizki> tried it also, didn't really work at all
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[10:42] <Vaizki> well currently I run a linux pvr inside a VM but it's a bit different...
[10:43] <Vaizki> it's a VMWare ESXi 6 hypervisor running on a Xeon E3 and uses I/O virtualization to present PCI-e tuner cards directly to the guest OS in the VM
[10:43] <Vaizki> so the cpu and motherboard chipset handle the device virtualization and it's not a USB dongle
[10:43] <Vaizki> works great.. but dongles in a VM running on virtualbox or something like that.. no. just no.
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[10:49] <KM4FSW> Upu: got the new adsb preamp thanks so much! I haven't had a chance to test it, hoping to get that done over the weekend
[10:49] <garymortimer> @sttheory I use a $10 dongle as a back up nothing wrong with them for the price, in fact they are amazing just have somebody watch it as temperature really affect mine. A much cheaper way to have friends distributed and listening out.
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[10:51] <eroomde> maybe we could have #nothighaltitude for aeroplane tracking
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[11:04] <christopherlee> Can any one confirm if the Neo 6M is ok to 50'000m. Looking at data sheet its not 1005 clear
[11:05] <christopherlee> 100%
[11:05] <craag> christopherlee: It will be, once in flight mode.
[11:05] <christopherlee> Thanks
[11:06] <craag> However you have to configure flight mode every time it powers up
[11:06] <craag> and check it's set correctly!
[11:06] <christopherlee> Just got one cheap ages ago and thought time to have a play.
[11:06] <christopherlee> thanks
[11:06] <craag> The -6 series pull a lot more power than the newer -7 and -8
[11:07] <christopherlee> Using it as much to have a play with building a tracker. Used a PITS board the first time and thought would have a play with arduino etc.
[11:07] <craag> Good plan :)
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[11:08] <christopherlee> Can send it up as a second payload and probably have some other sensors attached to relay back data.
[11:18] <RealBorg> i wonder if a gps above its altitude would still emit GPGSV messages
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> In general, yes
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> you get however invalid position messages, and it either reports ,,,,, or 0,0,0...
[11:19] <RealBorg> that would you could still approximate the positions by looking at which satellites are above the horizon
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> ah
[11:19] <RealBorg> way
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> It's really pretty pointless.
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> Today, with a very, very,very,very cheap MCU, you can take a GPS 'front end' chipset and process the ~18mbps data into a nice GPS position
[11:20] <SpeedEvil> You can't quite do it on the base model arduino, but that ARM one could probably cope
[11:20] <RealBorg> talking about pointless: earth will be startdust in 4 bio. years
[11:21] <RealBorg> huminity will probably last another 500 mio. years or so
[11:21] <RealBorg> humanity
[11:21] <SpeedEvil> s/500mio/5/
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> The mice with ears on their back will take over.
[11:22] <RealBorg> if i had a time machine i would probably travel back to ancient egypt and talk with a pharao about that
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[11:22] <RealBorg> "you think your pyramids are going to last forever? make you immortal? think again!"
[11:22] <SpeedEvil> 'guards, kill him'
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[11:23] <RealBorg> he wouln't dare
[11:23] <RealBorg> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bikeballs/bike-balls-bike-light
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[11:27] <RealBorg> yesterday I turned my raspi into a seismometer :)
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> I've been pondering silly things about that.
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> It's quite plausible to for not particularly much money to parallel ~100 MEMS accellerometers to dramatically reduce the noise
[11:28] <RealBorg> funny how you can use cheap hardware to build instruments which would previously have cost thousands of dollars
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> ~100 accells reduces the noise to below 1/10th, and the integrated velocity error to 1/10th, with the integrated position improving by a factor of 100
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> (somewhat more than 100 in reality)
[11:30] <RealBorg> I'm just doing some averages over the samples and I got noise levels of ~10/16384
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> You need really quite low indeed noise if you want to pretend it's an actually functional INS over more than a few seconds.
[11:31] <RealBorg> I believe smart things can be done in software
[11:31] <RealBorg> let's see how far I can get with my approach
[11:32] <RealBorg> next thing to try is to calculate its relative position and attitude
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> You can't get below the sensor noise though.
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> You can filter off some of it, if you know your sensor is not moving at that frequency
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> Or have a specific model of what your movement must be
[11:33] <RealBorg> and I can use geomagnetic data to correct attitude/gyro information
[11:33] <RealBorg> and I can use gps data to correct for motion errors
[11:33] <SpeedEvil> Don't forget about iron, and magnetic deviation models.
[11:34] <RealBorg> what do we know about the geomagnetic field in the ionosphere?
[11:35] <Laurenceb__> ive got down to ~1degree IMU error using taulabs EKF code and ublox5
[11:35] <RealBorg> is a compass reliable up there?
[11:35] <Laurenceb__> the taulabs code is insane
[11:35] <Laurenceb__> hand optimised c
[11:35] <Laurenceb__> thousands of lines
[11:36] <KM4FSW> anyone in here ever built a WSPR pico tracker?
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: what is 'bare' IMU performance without the GPS like?
[11:37] <Laurenceb__> very poor
[11:37] <Laurenceb__> well if you want <10 seconds and <10meters its ok
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> yeah - thought so alas.
[11:37] <RealBorg> Laurenceb__, I found IMU data to be almost unusable unless averaging at least 8 samples
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> Averaging is missing the point.
[11:37] <Laurenceb__> thats a meaningless statement
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> you need to throw it all into a filter.
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> the kalman filter does your averaging, without throwing away data.
[11:38] <Vaizki> isn't averaging a filter...
[11:38] <Laurenceb__> SpeedEvil: but thats still good enough for space launch and weapons...
[11:38] <RealBorg> I'm not throwing away data
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> If you simply do a moving average, for example, you are filtering out the high frequency components - which may have meaning if your vehicle rapidly slews
[11:38] <RealBorg> i'm filtering in the time dimension
[11:39] <RealBorg> avoiding noise and drift
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> And yes, in many cases, that's not going to be an issue, as at desired slew rates, the cosine error before the next sample is negligible
[11:41] <RealBorg> so the kalman filter would approximate a curve between two measurements?
[11:41] <Laurenceb__> https://ukhas.org.uk/code:7_state_ekf_with_bias
[11:41] <RealBorg> not a linear line but a dynamic curve for an acceleration profile?
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[11:54] <mfa298> Vaizki: heh, I only had a lowly AMD thing (E-350 I think) with ESXi 5.5, and usb dongles so not much good virtualisation stuffs
[11:55] <Vaizki> well just running ESXi instead of something like virtualbox on top of windows makes a world of difference to VM performance and latencies
[11:55] <RealBorg> my biggest problem at the moment is of a rather trivial nature: how to connect both a display and sensors to a raspi
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[12:18] <Laurenceb__> SpeedEvil: theoretical accel drift might be low, but there are nonlinearities, temperature drift and coupling from misalignment and g to consider
[12:19] <Laurenceb__> hovering in space the drift might be low :D
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> yes, I know.
[12:19] Action: SpeedEvil wishes things were simple.
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[12:20] <SpeedEvil> RealBorg: what sort of display
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[12:25] <Laurenceb__> i bolted my imu board to a tripod and aligned it with distant landmarks
[12:25] <Laurenceb__> then grabbed OS map
[12:28] <garymortimer> Just a thought, is there a Whatsapp group ?? Much easier to add pictures when actually chasing and tracking
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[12:29] <eroomde> that sounds horrifying
[12:29] <Laurenceb__> a whatswhats???
[12:29] <garymortimer> ludites
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[12:30] <Laurenceb__> sensibleites
[12:30] <garymortimer> Ok how about I put it like this, a whatsapp group would make it much easier to communicate pub choices
[12:31] <Laurenceb__> and thats relevant how?
[12:31] <garymortimer> Its really popular down here I guess because of the cost of comms, and it works on older phones I forget its not so big in the rest of the world.
[12:32] <Laurenceb__> garymortimer is Nigel Farage?
[12:32] <Laurenceb__> priority 1: pub
[12:32] <garymortimer> Blast and I have so much time now the party des not want me
[12:32] <Laurenceb__> we have a google group
[12:32] <Laurenceb__> and irc
[12:32] <Laurenceb__> surely thats fine?
[12:33] <Laurenceb__> too much stuff and people are going to get lost
[12:33] <garymortimer> Ok ok fair enough I was only asking. Its just much easier to post images in real time and other stuff than this old fashioned stuff ;-)
[12:34] <garymortimer> I actually avoided it for ages because its a FB thing but so many of my friends here only use it that I had to relent
[12:35] <eroomde> the idea of my phone constantly buzzing with a #highaltitude watsapp fills me with complete horror
[12:35] <Laurenceb__> haha
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[12:36] <gonzo_> the only problem with irc when out mobile, there is not way of knowing if packets get lost
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[12:37] <gonzo_> needs a cashing proxy
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[12:39] <daveake> I have ZNC running on a Pi at home, and connect to that
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[12:43] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: quassel I like
[12:44] <SpeedEvil> you run the core on some server, and then you have a unified backscroll and notifications over internmiettently connected clinets which mya be on ios android, linux, windows, ...
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[12:48] <day> but znc connected to multiple servers feels so clunky :/
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[12:51] <gonzo_> ta SpeedEvil, will look at that
[12:54] <adamgreig> I use weecehat
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> quassel has issues, but WFM
[12:54] <adamgreig> weechat*
[12:54] <adamgreig> it's not dissimilar to quassel in principle
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> I love the cross-platform thing.
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> #quassel #quasseldroid
[12:54] <adamgreig> but it's also a lot like irssi in that 90% of my usage is console ssh'd to my server
[12:54] <adamgreig> just, it also has an android app that can connect and gives me the same backlog and everything else
[12:56] <eroomde> it's also like irssi in that i haven't really had to relearn any key combinations
[12:56] <gonzo_> a few options then. Wonder why I never found these last time I went googling??
[12:57] <gonzo_> probably as with most things, I don't have the jargon to searck with
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[13:31] <Laurenceb__> bonkers but actually very awesome
[13:31] <Laurenceb__> http://www.islandone.org/LEOBiblio/SPBI110.HTM
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[16:18] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[16:21] <Reb-SM3ULC> hello
[16:21] <craag> Afternoon
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[16:25] <Reb-SM3ULC> Yet another day with HAB-discussion at work. This time timesynchronization and small and cheap solutions. :)
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[16:25] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[16:48] <Laurenceb__> any pro inkscape users here?
[16:48] <Laurenceb__> im trying to scale the dashes on a line
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[16:56] <Laurenceb__> graphs, i hate them
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[17:14] <nick_> Laurenceb__: I'm not a pro
[17:14] <nick_> But, if you have a dashed line, open up the fill and stroke box
[17:14] <nick_> Go to the third dab, which is stroke style
[17:15] <nick_> And there's a drop down list of options for different styles of dashes
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[17:51] <Laurenceb__> nick_: yeah but that seems to be resetting at multiple points along my line
[17:52] <Laurenceb__> maybe i need to play with group/ungroup
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[19:29] <DutchMillbt> Hi does anyone know why the rfm22 needs a periodically restart?
[19:31] <fsphil> it freezes up / crashes sometimes
[19:31] <lz1dev> does it run windows?
[19:31] <lz1dev> ill let myself out
[19:32] <daveake> :)
[19:33] <daveake> It has many failure modes
[19:36] <DutchMillbt> Oke thankz fsphil
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[19:54] <pd3t> ola allen
[20:09] <DutchMillbt> Hi Terry
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[21:16] <Laurenceb_> calling linux gurus
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> say i want to 'ls' somewhere i dont own
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> how do i temporarily get permission?
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> like sudo but not for superuser?
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[21:19] <craag> sudo -u [user]
[21:19] <craag> *sudo -u [user] [command]
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> ok
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> is there a way to script that?
[21:21] <craag> script it to do what?
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> i need a script run by user1 to access stuff owned by user2
[21:21] <Laurenceb_> is there a way to make it so that user1 only has to enter password once?
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[21:22] <SpeedEvil> Do you actually want that.
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> Or do you want user1 always able to access user2s files
[21:22] <craag> Sorry gtg
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> no, but i cant think of another way
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> i could copy the files but its many gigs
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[21:22] <Laurenceb_> make that TB
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> hmf
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> You could ad user1 to the appropriate group
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> user1==me user2==file store
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> aha
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> add
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> so what group do i get added to?
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> guess i need to read about groups lol
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> create a new group, add users1 and 2?
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> Or add user 2, then add/remove user 1 after they run a script, and perhaps on a timer
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> ok thanks
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> ill try after having some food
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> :P
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[21:34] Nick change: day_ -> day
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[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> good night! :)
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[22:17] <mfa298> Laurenceb_: man sudo - you can do a lot of stuff with it, including allowing user1 to run named commands as user2 with no password
[22:18] <mfa298> hmm, many TB, small scale stuff then
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[22:20] <mfa298> groups can get harder as your group list is normally only loaded at login - if your added to a group you may not get that access until you logout and back in
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[22:43] <Laurenceb_> thanks mfa
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> ive got some reading to do :P
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[22:54] <Laurenceb_> sudo -u <user> <command>
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> ok i get that far
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> but is there some way to run multiple commands without multiple sudo?
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> or am i being daft?
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> its not going to ask me again if its scripted?
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> maybe i should just try this
[22:59] <lz1dev> Laurenceb_: how many commands?
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> im not sure
[23:00] <Vaizki> you can do: sudo -u luzer "cd /habifier; high5 -n; rm /tmp/bits_n_bobs*; echo All done."
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> there some "ls"
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> but then the rest is gnu-octave
[23:01] <lz1dev> Laurenceb_: sudo -s -- "echo 1; echo 2"
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> ok yeah
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> guess i need to run this and see
[23:02] <lz1dev> -s is to spawn an interactive shell
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> oh wait i have an idea.. its nasty
[23:02] <lz1dev> -- makes sudo stop processing arguments
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> sudo -u <user> octave
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> then system() inside octave
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> and the rest of the data loading is done by octave
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> will that work?
[23:03] <lz1dev> don't do that
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> well i need to sort files based on their numerical contents
[23:04] <Laurenceb_> its fairly simple to use :P
[23:05] <lz1dev> why do you need sudo for that?
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> as i need to connect to a fileserver
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> the fileserver is pretty simple, theres a "fileserver user"
[23:06] <lz1dev> why dont you write your commands into a file
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> everyone connects that user
[23:06] <lz1dev> and run that as sudo
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> hmm
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[23:07] <Laurenceb_> ill see if i can make my current plan work :D
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[23:41] <mfa298> if it's a cifs server the login user shouldn't have to match the local user. i.e. you can probably set mount options so stuff looks like your local user
[23:41] <mfa298> been a while since I've looked at that though
[23:44] <mfa298> otherwise sudo is easy if you spens a bit of time with the man page. There's a load of stuff you can make it do. I use it regularly to have things owned by a specific user and change to that user to do things (e.g. web site owned by a specific user)
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[00:00] --- Fri May 29 2015