highaltitude.log.20150527

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[07:31] <Vaizki> morning
[07:32] <mfa298> moaning
[07:35] <craag> mornin
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[07:39] <Vaizki> morning coffee spiller.. http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/well-that's-one-way-to-make-contact/?action=dlattach;attach=153864;image
[07:39] <Vaizki> I'm sure it's "temporary".. at least until there's some load :)
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[07:55] <mfa298> I like the piece of lx tape holding the ends of the cable ties together
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[08:25] <cm13g09> morning maounis
[08:25] <cm13g09> no.....
[08:25] <cm13g09> try mfa298
[08:26] <cm13g09> :/ tab-complete = FAIL
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[08:53] <gonzo_> would that bit of tape be a common neutral point?
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[09:50] <daveake> early retirement
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[10:07] <gonzo_> UNLESS HE MEANS, JUST TIRED YET AGAIN
[10:08] <gonzo_> agh, caps lock on home machine and is a pain when using vnc
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[10:29] <eroomde> Vaizki: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/(wtb)-rohde-schwarz-crtu/
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[10:43] <Laurenceb__> eroomde: another way to launch from a balloon - big cannon
[10:44] <Laurenceb__> turns out there are robust enough tcxos http://www.euroquartz.co.uk/Portals/0/hgxo.pdf
[10:48] <eroomde> well the tcxo was the only obvious drawback between you and the space cannon
[10:48] <eroomde> so i'm glad it's now easy
[10:50] <Laurenceb__> this https://www.shoeboxcompressor.com/products.html + propane and 27mm long 1m CF tube gets 20grams to 1.25km/s
[10:50] <Laurenceb__> lol
[10:50] <Laurenceb__> also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Bull
[10:53] <eroomde> i know of him
[10:53] <eroomde> wouldn't the gondola have to provide a perfect reaction?
[10:55] <Laurenceb__> the tube could be designed to fly downwards off some clips
[10:55] <Laurenceb__> and be disposable or tied to a long weak spring
[10:55] <eroomde> i reckon stick with your plan A :)
[10:57] <day> about spectrum analyzers. if i want to measure an antenna output i want the analyzer to have the same impedance as the antenna output, correct? But what if someone would wanted to measure frequencies on the house powerline?
[10:58] <eroomde> plug the mains into the N connector on your specan
[10:58] <eroomde> simples
[10:58] <eroomde> (just because it takes all-sorts on this irc channel, please do not do this)
[10:59] <eroomde> you'll want some kind of field probe probably to just hold near the power line
[10:59] <eroomde> or a log-periodic antenna or whatever
[11:00] <day> ive never worked with a specan. i thought they would be used like a 'voltmeter' but apparently that is completely wrong
[11:02] <eroomde> well it looks at a voltage timer-series and turns it into a spectrum
[11:02] <eroomde> but you don't need direct electrical contact with an object to measure the field coming off it
[11:03] <eroomde> so for example have a look at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJeycGw86YU
[11:03] <day> well i just dont get why they are so sensible. a voltmeter is pretty much impossible to kill
[11:04] <eroomde> well, there are good reasons
[11:04] <day> same goes for an oscilloscope
[11:04] <day> im sure there are
[11:04] <mattbrejza> well 240Vac into a 50ohm load will end badly for htat 50ohm load
[11:04] <eroomde> that's one reason
[11:04] <day> so its not actually the sensor that dies, but the 50ohm load?
[11:04] <eroomde> no you'll probably destroy the entire front end
[11:04] <mattbrejza> the 50ohm load is the front end of your specan
[11:05] <day> like a shunt for an amp meter?
[11:06] <eroomde> sort of. more to match the impedance of the thing supplying the signal
[11:06] <day> but it shouldnt be to hard to build a load that withstands 100W for a while
[11:07] <eroomde> yes but why put a huge fan-cooled load in the front of a very sentive instrument designed to measure spectral content
[11:07] <eroomde> you just put a big load in-line before the specan if you want to do that
[11:08] <eroomde> load/attenuator
[11:08] <day> so, do specans have an 'infinite' impedance mode? That forces you to use an external load?
[11:08] <eroomde> I've never seen one that wasn't 50 or 75 ohm input impedance
[11:09] <day> me neither. i just thought that maybe the 50/75 ones can be switched between 50/infinite 75/infinite
[11:09] <eroomde> not as far as i know
[11:09] <day> i better not touch a specan :D
[11:09] <eroomde> well take it slowly if you do
[11:10] <eroomde> most of them have maximum power input specs right by the connector
[11:10] <eroomde> and maximum amount of DC they can take
[11:10] <eroomde> and so on
[11:10] <day> but that doesnt help much if you connect it to a blackbox
[11:11] <eroomde> sure but don't just connect your most sensitive and expensive bit of lab equipment to a black box
[11:11] <eroomde> do some preliminary stuff
[11:11] <eroomde> connect it via a big 30 ohm attenuator to a power meter first to see what you get
[11:12] <day> so a power meter is essential i take it
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> Well, you can cheat
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> and improvise one
[11:13] <SpeedEvil> a 50 ohm tiny resistor will get very hot on very little power
[11:13] <SpeedEvil> But you really ideally want a fast meter that can react to fast power spikes
[11:14] <SpeedEvil> if your analyser can cope with 10mW, that doesn't mean it can cope with 100W, 1/10000th of the time
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[11:27] <gonzo_> AS i FOUND WITH ONE OF MY LOADS RECENTLY
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[11:28] <Laurenceb__> REALLY?
[11:28] <gonzo_> though it was a 100w loar by design, converted to a calibrated open cct by the applkication of 350w
[11:29] <gonzo_> (VNC'ing to a machine with the caps lock on. pAIN)
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[11:52] <michal_f> hello
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[12:37] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[13:13] <SpeedEvil> http://video.foxnews.com/v/2553193403001/severe-storms-cause-record-flooding-in-texas/??cmpid=cmty_twitter_fn#sp=show-clips oops
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[13:14] <SpeedEvil> (damn in texas
[13:15] <mattbrejza> gripping tv
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[13:33] <Laurenceb__> uh oh
[13:33] <Laurenceb__> its washing away
[13:34] <Laurenceb__> i dont get the pumps
[13:34] <Laurenceb__> why dont they just set up syphons
[13:34] <Laurenceb__> looks like there do have one or two of those
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> siphons would be a good call indeed
[13:36] <gonzo_> would be a bugger to get your mouth over the enbd to get it started!
[13:37] <SpeedEvil> I guess you'd want a couple of gate valves, a couple of flexible couplers, a small pump to fill a section, and some 24" pipe
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[13:39] <Laurenceb__> are they filming from a helicopter?
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[13:39] <Laurenceb__> its going to run out of fuel soon surely
[13:40] <SpeedEvil> I think it's a nearby hill
[13:43] <Laurenceb__> http://i.imgur.com/3Jl6d6r.png
[13:44] <SpeedEvil> hah
[13:44] <Laurenceb__> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Cabin_nose_section_of_747-8I_prototype.jpg
[13:44] <Laurenceb__> lol
[13:45] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[13:48] <SpeedEvil> I find it amusing that they've put all the pumps right on the bit of the dam most likely to fail.
[13:48] <SpeedEvil> Not on the bit on the left bank
[13:48] <russss> this is strangely hypnotic
[13:48] <Laurenceb__> needs a heavy metal band playing
[13:49] <Laurenceb__> or maybe justin beeber
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[13:49] <Laurenceb__> at the bottom obviously
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[13:59] <Vaizki> have you guys seen the sea level control system being built in the Venice lagoon? dam(n) impressive.
[14:00] <Vaizki> of course it's italians + technology so it'll most probably be polished chrome and almost work :)
[14:01] <russss> why does this dam not have a spillway anyway
[14:01] <Reb-SM3ULC> should not be too low berfore the streams cut way deeper in the walll
[14:02] <mattbrejza> this dam looks like it was built by a local farmer with a jcb to stop the local stream getting at his field
[14:05] <Reb-SM3ULC> weird idea to try to pump water out of a dam in that way.. with heavy pipes they could from from bottom and when started it will suck by itself..
[14:07] <Vaizki> are you sure they are pumping out?
[14:07] <Vaizki> probably they are but yes it's weird
[14:09] <Reb-SM3ULC> Vaizki: not sure no
[14:09] <Vaizki> if pumping in, it would make sense to have the pumps push up and not suck up
[14:09] Action: Reb-SM3ULC actually are working on extra alarmfunctions for dambreaks right now.. :)
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> they are pumping out
[14:11] <SpeedEvil> it occasionally zooms out to show the outlet
[14:17] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
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[15:16] <infaddict> any idea of what pressure is involved when a latex balloon is filled? guessing its not much as don't believe they are fully inflated, but could be wrong. mine is a Hwoyee 1600g with 3.45m3 of helium
[15:17] <mattbrejza> the pressure is very close to the external pressure
[15:18] <tridor> I've been trawling the Internet to find info about the type of coax I need for my 2m receiver setup..........
[15:18] <tridor> going to put RG174 on balloon tx
[15:18] <tridor> but not sure what to use for my main receiver
[15:18] <tridor> ?
[15:22] <eroomde> the same stuff should be fine
[15:23] <infaddict> thx mattbrejza - so thats about 1 atmos then. around 15psi ish.
[15:23] <infaddict> just testing my filling equipment
[15:23] <mattbrejza> well what i mean is that the difference between in and out is almost zero
[15:24] <mattbrejza> it has been measured during an ascent before
[15:24] <infaddict> right, i was wondering what the inflation equipment had to cope with
[15:24] <infaddict> i know these things are not inflated to high pressures
[15:24] <eroomde> zero
[15:24] <eroomde> for the purposes of your fill rig
[15:25] <mattbrejza> the balloon is basically just a bit of material to keep your He and air separate
[15:25] <eroomde> the lift trying to pull the neck off the tube will be thousands of times bigger than any other force of the fill tube
[15:25] <craag> lift+wind :)
[15:25] <eroomde> sure
[15:31] <tridor> so stick with 50 ohm not 75?
[15:31] <eroomde> yes
[15:31] <eroomde> always 50
[15:32] <eroomde> 75 is only analogue video
[15:32] <eroomde> you should never ever need 75ohm in hab unless you know that you do in which case you wouldn't be asking the question
[15:32] <RealBorg> infaddict, pressure is probably 1mbar or so
[15:33] <infaddict> ok thx everybody. so basically next to no back pressure down the filling tube.
[15:34] <eroomde> not static no
[15:34] <infaddict> my 1 bar test is overkill then haha
[15:34] <infaddict> no leaks tho ;-)
[15:35] <tridor> learning, learning, learning, thanks
[15:36] <eroomde> this is a good place for it
[15:37] <infaddict> indeed, no such thing as a stupid question (unless you've asked it 5 times before, then people get angry hehe)
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[15:39] <tridor> honestly it's a mountain of information to understand, especially the tracking stuff but slowly working through it all :-)
[15:42] <infaddict> mmm i was in similar position 4 months ago. my advice would be to take it slow, read everything (twice) and learn by trial and error where you can.
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[15:44] <RealBorg> is there a opposite to sdr?
[15:45] <fsphil> tracking can at least be practiced on other peoples flights
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[15:45] <fsphil> which I recommend doing if possible
[15:45] <infaddict> yep, depends where in the world you are, i struggled with that being up North and not many flights (if any) come close enough for my equipment
[15:46] <infaddict> but you can still practice tracking your payload from as far away as possible (e.g. big field or top of a hill)
[15:46] <fsphil> have someone drive around with it
[15:47] <fsphil> this helps test the antennas too
[15:47] <infaddict> yep that too. My Dad found that quite amusing.
[15:47] <infaddict> Hide and seek!
[15:47] <fsphil> a faulty antenna might not be noticed in the same room
[15:47] <fsphil> but you notice pretty quickly after launching
[15:47] <infaddict> tridor: theres a good "what not to do" page on the wiki which is v useful
[15:48] <infaddict> !wiki how to lose
[15:48] <SpacenearUS> 03infaddict: Wiki page 03how_to_lose_your_flight - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:how_to_lose_your_flight
[15:48] <adamgreig> RealBorg: an opposite?
[15:48] <adamgreig> "hardware defined" radio?
[15:49] <RealBorg> software defined transmitter
[15:49] <fsphil> softeare defined cup and string
[15:49] <adamgreig> sdr is software defined radio
[15:49] <adamgreig> many can transmit
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[15:52] <RealBorg> I am thinking about creating an rf signal from i/q data
[15:52] <adamgreig> uh huh
[15:52] <adamgreig> you might consider buying something like the HackRF or BladeRF or an ettus B200 or any of a number of similar SDR transceivers
[15:52] <adamgreig> they are a little pricier than the RTL-SDR dongles typically, but that's market forces for you
[15:53] <adamgreig> check out this PSK31 transmitter I wrote for the HackRF recently: https://gist.github.com/adamgreig/0326b06edef87db97f84
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[15:54] <adamgreig> admittedly with binary phase keying you only require I and not Q but nevertheless :p
[15:55] <ibanezmatt13> I've been trying to do that recently adamgreig but you appear to have had more success than me :P
[15:55] <adamgreig> what radio do you have?
[15:56] <Vaizki> I have a nice IQ transmitter but missing the pc software to generate waveform files...
[15:56] <ibanezmatt13> Well, I mean I just thought I'd try to write some python to convert some text into a psk signal and plot it with matplotlib
[15:56] <ibanezmatt13> But it soon became quite tricky, so I've postponed it til after the exams :)
[15:57] <craag> How long til you're done ibanezmatt13 ?
[15:57] <Vaizki> it does accept I and Q as external inputs
[15:57] <ibanezmatt13> last exam 24th June craag. The few I've had so far have gone well I think, but harder ones to come
[15:57] <adamgreig> good luck :)
[15:57] <ibanezmatt13> thanks :)
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[16:09] <RealBorg> if anyone is interested: i have written some perl code to access BMP085/BMP180/HMC5883L/MPU6050 sensors
[16:14] <michal_f> I'd be interested in BMP180 in near future, but...
[16:14] <michal_f> God, why perl ???
[16:14] <michal_f> :)
[16:18] <mattbrejza> why is the mpu6050 so popular anyway :/
[16:18] <RealBorg> i'm used to writing perl and I like it :)
[16:18] <RealBorg> seems to be a cheap and decent accel/gyro
[16:19] <RealBorg> C would be better but that's so cumbersome to write
[16:19] <mattbrejza> cheap?
[16:19] <mattbrejza> lol
[16:19] <craag> more cumbersome than perl?
[16:20] <adamgreig> how does your perl even talk to them? does cpan have some horrific i2c library?
[16:20] <adamgreig> of course it does, stupid question really
[16:20] <RealBorg> cpan has Device::SMBus
[16:21] <RealBorg> and I've gotten all my sensors to work within a day
[16:21] <adamgreig> yes but now you have perl :P
[16:21] <adamgreig> is your code online?
[16:22] <RealBorg> not yet
[16:22] <RealBorg> i want to package it for cpan later
[16:22] <RealBorg> but i'm more interested in getting things working together
[16:23] <RealBorg> gps + accel + gyro + compass
[16:23] <Lunar_Lander> what are the limitiations of the mpu6050?
[16:23] <mattbrejza> i cant actually remember anyone here trying to use perl before...
[16:23] <michal_f> ok, I'm going home - bbl
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[16:23] <mattbrejza> (apart from us in 2009 lol)
[16:23] <RealBorg> mattbrejza, I thought that ;)
[16:24] <RealBorg> mattbrejza, what did you use perl for?
[16:24] <mattbrejza> 'the tank'
[16:24] <mattbrejza> http://gallery.apexhab.org/Apex-I
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[16:28] <RealBorg> nice :)
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[16:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[16:28] <Lunar_Lander> never found to this day :(
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[16:32] <RealBorg> mattbrejza, I am going to use a raspi for *everything*
[16:33] <mattbrejza> my personal opinion is that you dont
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[16:36] <infaddict> how much did the tank weigh mattbrejza
[16:36] <mattbrejza> not sure
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[16:37] <craag> You can use the rpi for everything without using perl ;)
[16:38] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[16:38] <craag> I used it for everything with javascript \o/
[16:38] <Lunar_Lander> btw it's stratosphere day
[16:39] <RealBorg> craag, javascript / node.js would be my second choice
[16:39] <Lunar_Lander> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auguste_Piccard
[16:39] <craag> Don't
[16:39] <RealBorg> but I'm more used to getting things done in perl :)
[16:40] <RealBorg> gps/nmea parsing also coded in perl
[16:44] <Vaizki> I am very happy with i2c Ublox so far, no faffing about with NMEA
[16:44] <Lunar_Lander> and UBX serial?
[16:46] <RealBorg> got a ublox usb gps/glonass
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[16:55] <Vaizki> Lunar, ubx over i2c
[16:55] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[16:56] <infaddict> yep me too Vaizki. good implementation from uBlox and smaller data packets than NMEA, without the parsing.
[16:56] <Vaizki> Yea just read directly into a struct boom
[16:57] <Vaizki> no ascii parsing or variable length buffers
[16:58] <Vaizki> no converting ascii to floats
[16:58] <Vaizki> or fixed point ints whatnot
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[17:11] <arjunnaha> Has anyone seen this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-32901233
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[17:50] <SpeedEvil> http://petapixel.com/2011/11/28/dslr-reunited-with-owner-after-year-on-ocean-floor-photos-intact/
[17:52] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[19:34] <chrisstubbs> "Password cannot exceed 8 characters in length" oh.
[19:35] <fsphil> :/
[19:35] <fsphil> bad sign
[19:35] <chrisstubbs> uni application form
[19:36] <chrisstubbs> one the other day sent me my password in plaintext when I reset it
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[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> not good
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[19:46] <nick_> I used to use a wiki that used a hash system that only actually used 8 chars of your password.
[19:46] <nick_> Without making it clear to you.
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[19:48] <fsphil> I noticed a website I use does that too
[19:49] <tweetBot> @crispSV: #J43VHF AEOLUS-2WAY ground station https://t.co/mALSPiAIL0 via @YouTube #hamr #amsat #hamradio #ukhas
[19:49] <fsphil> a bank that asks you for three characters from your password
[19:49] <fsphil> but only ever asks for one of the first 8
[19:50] <fsphil> nice, balloon repeater
[19:52] <fsphil> SSB?
[19:52] <fsphil> unusual to see that on VHF
[19:58] <Dread> hmm
[19:58] <Dread> fsphil: you should look for ham sats
[19:58] <Dread> the same way.
[19:58] <fsphil> true
[19:59] <fsphil> wonder what hardware they're using
[19:59] <Dread> on baloon?
[19:59] <fsphil> yea
[20:00] <Dread> dunno, it should be simple receiver on one band, and simple transmitter on second
[20:00] <fsphil> I have all the bits to do a simple FM repeater
[20:00] <Dread> low powers, so not so complicated
[20:00] <Dread> it's often reversed one
[20:00] <fsphil> RX on VHF, transmit on the ISM band on 434mhz
[20:00] <Dread> standard crossband.
[20:01] <fsphil> picking a VHF frequency that's clear across the entire UK would be tricky
[20:02] <fsphil> though a tone frequency would help reduce unintentional repeating
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[20:02] <Dread> not so much
[20:02] <fsphil> ctcss
[20:02] <Dread> you can always use such common frequency like 145.500
[20:04] <fsphil> that would annoy too many people :)
[20:04] <fsphil> probably keep it somewhere near 145.100
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[20:08] <_charlie> hi
[20:08] <fsphil> howdy
[20:20] <Laurenceb_> http://www.last.fm/music/Goatpenis/_/Combustion+Light+Gas+Gun+%28CLGG%29
[20:20] <Laurenceb_> my interests combined
[20:20] <_charlie> erm lol?
[20:20] <_charlie> :P
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[20:29] <Vaizki> goats and penises?
[20:29] <Vaizki> or should I actually open the url
[20:34] <fsphil> probably not
[20:34] <jcoxon> really Laurenceb_?
[20:35] <jcoxon> please don't post random stuff
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[20:52] <_charlie> LOL
[20:52] <_charlie> chillax
[20:52] <_charlie> Not as good as pen island though Kappa
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[21:04] Nick change: Dread -> Dead
[21:04] Nick change: Dead -> Dread
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[22:12] <_charlie> Hopefully send off for pcbs tomorr
[22:13] <_charlie> night everone
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[22:14] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[00:00] --- Thu May 28 2015