highaltitude.log.20150522

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[08:47] <infaddict> Morning all. TGIF.
[08:48] <UpuWork> morning
[08:48] <infaddict> For hanging a backup tracker beneath my main payload, is a single line ok, or should i do 4 corners down to a single line (wondering if that prevents snagging).
[08:48] <infaddict> or maybe put backup in line (single line) above the main payload perhaps
[08:48] <UpuWork> when we flew that before
[08:49] <craag> If you've got cameras in your primary, put everything else below it.
[08:49] <UpuWork> I just did a alpine butterfly below the parachute
[08:49] <daveake> 4 shortish lines say 40cm to clear the aerial
[08:49] <UpuWork> tied a cord to that tracker
[08:49] <daveake> then 1 line down tto backup
[08:49] <UpuWork> slapped it in a box
[08:49] <UpuWork> ran like an idiot across a race course
[08:50] <UpuWork> and tied it to the alpine just as dave let it go
[08:50] <UpuWork> https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:knots?s[]=knots
[08:51] <infaddict> thx guys!
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[09:11] <Vaizki> UpuWork, but which knot did you use to tie it to the alpine? :)
[09:14] <UpuWork> Vaizki I think I called it "the panic"
[09:14] <UpuWork> or "the amaze it was still there at the end"
[09:15] <michemto> haha :D
[09:16] <Vaizki> did you seal it with blood? that helps
[09:16] <michemto> sealing w seals blood works 100%
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[09:16] <Vaizki> umm are you from greenland...
[09:17] <michemto> Well.. nope :D
[09:17] <Vaizki> although, we hunt seals in Finland too
[09:18] <Vaizki> well not "we", I don't personally have a permit to hunt them but the people who live out in the islands do
[09:18] <amell> ne1 know the cheapest place to get teensy 3.1 from?
[09:18] <michemto> Yup, they sometimes die here, in Estonia, too :/
[09:19] <michemto> Guys, how to get payload to the calendar which appears in the right side of tracker.habhub
[09:19] <Vaizki> get your flight approved
[09:19] <amell> btw, who is launching with steve on sunday?
[09:19] <UpuWork> everyone it seems
[09:19] <UpuWork> michemto you need to get a flight doc approved
[09:19] <UpuWork> Chris Stubbs amell
[09:19] <amell> I had to warn him there is a rocket event on the same site that day :) its deconflicted now.
[09:20] <UpuWork> just wait the 2.5 seconds for the rockets to finish
[09:20] <x-f> michemto, your flight is in the calendar already
[09:20] <infaddict> ooh rockets vs HAB part IV
[09:20] <infaddict> a new hope
[09:20] <michemto> Uhm... K then I had old data :(
[09:20] <daveake> yeah a conflict that's easily sorted
[09:20] <michemto> I thought that... i already got approval confirm
[09:20] <daveake> assuming not using H2
[09:20] <daveake> they don't like that
[09:21] <amell> I dont know. weve sorted it out so its fine.
[09:21] <Vaizki> I think the tracker calendar is from google which is lazy to update ical data
[09:21] <daveake> <michemto> Hi smart guys! Question to you... We have water-pump working in the stratosphere... if we have Li-PO battery powering this and our pump will continue to work for a long time, is there any risk that lipo will explode?
[09:21] <amell> there is also duxford VE/VJ day airshow from 2pm on sunday.
[09:21] <amell> the airspace will be v busy.
[09:21] <daveake> water pump ???
[09:21] <daveake> Presumably not using water?
[09:22] <Vaizki> maybe it's a ballast release?
[09:22] <amell> im guessing its a stratospheric water gun.
[09:22] <Vaizki> space lasers are so 90's
[09:22] <daveake> I'm not really asking about the purpose
[09:22] <Vaizki> golden eye replaced by..
[09:22] <daveake> More the problems of pumping ice
[09:22] <Vaizki> umm. coat.
[09:23] <amell> I see CHEAPO has been resurrected, last I saw of it was in the thames estuary when I put too big a chute on it&
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[09:26] <amell> be helpful if the saturday flights were added to the calendar.
[09:26] <amell> sunday i mean
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[09:30] <Vaizki> only launch I have in the ical calendar is the estonian one tomorrow...
[09:31] <x-f> maybe it has become geo-aware?
[09:32] <x-f> you never know what lz1dev will do next
[09:33] <UpuWork> they will be amell when people ask for docs to be approved
[09:48] <daveake> Which tends to wait until they know when and what is being launched
[09:59] <day> what is the reason for this whole approval process? did anyone here ever got a disapproval?
[09:59] <infaddict> firstly it proves payload doc and syntax of sentence is working
[09:59] <Laurenceb__> tho shalt not launch
[10:00] <infaddict> plus i guess it highlights serious conflicts in launch freqs
[10:03] <day> i thought the approval process is only about, can i launch X at place Y at time Z.
[10:03] <infaddict> the CAA approval is
[10:03] <daveake> 2 separate things here
[10:03] Action: infaddict leaves it to daveake hehe
[10:03] <daveake> No you got it
[10:03] <daveake> CAA approval forf launch
[10:03] <day> ok then what is the purpose of the CCA approval?
[10:04] <daveake> habhub approval for flight doc
[10:04] <daveake> CAA: To avoid physical conflict with other airborne vehicles
[10:04] <day> i can see why the habhub approval might be a good idea
[10:04] <daveake> Should be obvious
[10:05] <infaddict> what if a plane was flying nearby at time/location u launched? or other airborne stuff. CAA control that.
[10:05] <daveake> Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you seriously asking why flights need approval by the CAA ?
[10:05] <day> daveake: considering how irratic baloons behave, they could just define launchsides. if i request approval to launch my baloon next to an airfield they will block it every time anyways
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[10:06] <eroomde> day: who looks after the launchsite?
[10:06] <day> thats why i was asking if anyone ever got a 'no' and under which circumstances did that happen?
[10:06] <daveake> Yes people have a "no"
[10:06] <daveake> Proximity to an airport
[10:07] <daveake> Other NOTAM in place (e.g. air show)
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[10:07] <day> daveake: but thats a 100% no in all cases right? so asking was redundant in the first place
[10:07] <eroomde> well you don't know until you ask
[10:07] <day> haha
[10:07] <eroomde> there is no hard and fast ban on proximity to airports
[10:08] <eroomde> depends on the airport and the proximity and the time
[10:08] <daveake> I'm struggling here. You're asking why there's a separate approval for the flight doc when the CAA already have an approval process?
[10:08] <eroomde> i helped a launch that had to be up by 7.30am because of proximity to oxford airport
[10:08] <eroomde> for example
[10:08] <day> daveake: nah i thought there only is the CAA approval. i didnt know about the other one
[10:08] <daveake> I'm lost
[10:09] <daveake> The CAA thing is for safety
[10:09] <daveake> The flight doc thing is to filter out people who don't bother testing that their trackers appear on the map first
[10:10] <eroomde> manual habhub flight approval might not be the final solution but the hobby has grown a lot in the last few years and so it makes sense to manually keep an eye on it to see what direction things head in
[10:11] <day> daveake: that means without flight doc approval your balloon isnt going to be tracked/ shown?
[10:11] <eroomde> correct
[10:11] <daveake> No that's wrong
[10:11] <day> :D
[10:11] <daveake> If the payload doc is present and correct then the mapping still works
[10:11] <daveake> However the flight won't appear in the calendar
[10:11] <craag> doc approval causes your flight to appear in the habhub calendar, and an 'autoconfigure' entry in dl-fldigi
[10:12] <eroomde> oh sorry. ignore me and listen to daveake. i'm reading too lazily. you need doc approval for the autopconfigure thing i believe to others using dl-fldigi can trivially track
[10:12] <eroomde> too slow.
[10:12] <day> well i start to understand why people deal with all the approvals instead of simply starting them...
[10:12] <daveake> However, if someone's asks for a flight doc to be approved and it's rejected because they never tested, then probably the payload doc will be wrong anyway
[10:13] <day> what is so hard about testing them?
[10:13] <daveake> Nothing
[10:13] <eroomde> you;d be amazed
[10:13] <day> turn them on, listen to them done :/
[10:13] <eroomde> the creative ways people have flights not work
[10:13] <daveake> So you'd think
[10:13] <daveake> Yup
[10:13] <day> is that wrong?
[10:13] <eroomde> no that's the idea
[10:14] <eroomde> if you're competant it usually would work like that
[10:14] <eroomde> but people do strange things
[10:14] <day> idk if i put weeks of work into a payload i dont skip on testing
[10:14] <mattbrejza> well its normally that theyhave it working on fldigi but habitat isnt quite set up rigt
[10:14] <eroomde> or don't understand c libraries deeply enough, or think using solidcore wire is a good idea, or just get deplayed but still want to launch tomorrow anyway despite not having written the code yet
[10:15] <daveake> I think that people get too set on launching on a particular day
[10:15] <daveake> Even NASA delay launches
[10:15] <eroomde> they can't handle crossing the meridean line or zero-padding longitudes properly or all manner of things
[10:15] <daveake> Esp ^
[10:16] <eroomde> i think as more information about how to hab gets put up online people think less for themsleves too
[10:16] <daveake> If I had £1 for every launcher I've seen say "but we have to launch on xxx" I'd have ... well £2 at least
[10:16] <daveake> and it always, always goes wrong
[10:16] <eroomde> they follow various wikis but don't realise, for example, the ublox needs to be put into flight mode to work at altitude
[10:17] <eroomde> whereas just deeply reading the ublox receiver protocol description pdf would cover all that
[10:17] <eroomde> shortcuts basically
[10:17] <eroomde> but yeah you live or die by testing
[10:17] <infaddict> yep i agree with the above. people think they have to launch within X days of starting the hobby. path to disaster.
[10:17] <eroomde> even people who've done this many times before make mistakes from lack of testing and being too much in a rush
[10:18] <eroomde> happens to all of us
[10:18] <daveake> yup
[10:18] <UpuWork> its quite refreshing to see you taking your time infaddict
[10:18] <eroomde> though less and less as you get disciplined about doing it properly
[10:18] <infaddict> testing and patience guarantees nothing, but helps a lot imho
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[10:19] <infaddict> yer UpuWork, i'd like to have gone a little faster (5 months in now) but I have a full time job (more than full time really), a family, and several other hobbies.
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[10:19] <infaddict> plus winter/early spring is crap for launching so good excuse to wait for better weather ;-)
[10:19] <UpuWork> took me 6 months
[10:19] <UpuWork> wedding got in the way
[10:19] <daveake> Mine was 5
[10:20] <daveake> Weather got in the way for 2 weeks
[10:20] <UpuWork> 1st October 2011, was 38'C in a field in Elsworth
[10:20] <infaddict> but in that 5 months i've literally started from "dummies guide to electronics" to designing and building a custom made PCB tracker
[10:21] <daveake> cooler in the sea though
[10:21] <infaddict> i owned no electronics or radio kit at all
[10:21] <daveake> or was that flight 2 ?
[10:21] <UpuWork> no that was the first one
[10:21] <tweetBot> @G7IGB: Mass 434 MHz balloon launch Sunday: There are many 434 MHz balloon launches planned for Sunday... http://t.co/f61Jb5Oiu2 #hamradio #ukhas
[10:22] <day> do most people even build the whole payload on their own? there are so many almost perfect payload projects already :/
[10:22] <infaddict> depends on your objective. can either buy ready made and launch quicker or learn how it works and build it
[10:22] <UpuWork> nothing is perfect
[10:22] <tweetBot> @G7IGB: Mass 434 MHz balloon launch Sunday: There are many 434 MHz balloon launches planned... http://t.co/f61Jb5Oiu2 #hamradio #ukhas
[10:22] <eroomde> day: yes
[10:22] <day> UpuWork: 'almost'
[10:22] <eroomde> eveything has been diy
[10:23] <infaddict> but to me, maybe 80% of the fun was in learning, building, coding, testing the solution. Not just buying it off a shelf.
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[10:23] <daveake> The main thing is to fly something *you* made.
[10:23] <daveake> The more of it you actually made the better
[10:23] <eroomde> steve has just put up a pic i remember him taking of a payload box i made, wondered where it was for a while https://www.flickr.com/photos/16828840@N07/17603602058/in/album-72157652588841849/
[10:23] <infaddict> the remaining 20% is standing in a field and changing underpants as I let go ;-)
[10:24] <eroomde> there's some oldies in that set generally
[10:24] <eroomde> me (2nd left) https://www.flickr.com/photos/16828840@N07/17605079829/in/album-72157652588841849/
[10:24] <day> i agree. i just feel a bit retarded after trying to figure out how to generate the proper sine signals via dds for the transmitter. and failing epically :P
[10:24] <eroomde> laurence's rogallo https://www.flickr.com/photos/16828840@N07/17605086229/in/album-72157652588841849/
[10:24] <daveake> hah yes just spotted that
[10:25] <eroomde> day: DDS is complicated compared to how it all started
[10:25] <UpuWork> like that straping
[10:25] <eroomde> don't feel bad
[10:25] <eroomde> yes
[10:25] <Laurenceb__> I have some old photos somewhere
[10:25] <eroomde> the reason i wanted that pic is because it shows the strapping
[10:26] <day> how is it complicated o0
[10:26] <eroomde> i made that payload for flight trains where would could affix just a good solid reliable CUSF payload to other more experimental ones
[10:26] <day> its basics
[10:26] <UpuWork> https://plus.google.com/photos/118244444241111963790/albums/5658660548779579377/5658661497551576450?banner=pwa&pid=5658661497551576450&oid=118244444241111963790
[10:27] <Laurenceb__> hmm not on this pc tho
[10:27] <eroomde> day: i bet there are 10^4 transistors in your dds for every 1 transistor in an old ntx2 :)
[10:27] <Laurenceb__> I'll upload this evening
[10:27] <Laurenceb__> i have some Nova1 stuff iirc
[10:27] <Laurenceb__> with early CUSF crew
[10:27] <eroomde> i have a big nova1 gallery ssaved somewhere
[10:28] <eroomde> Laurenceb__: henry is staying at mine next weekend
[10:28] <Laurenceb__> ah cool
[10:28] <Laurenceb__> is he still working on airborne wind turbines?
[10:28] <eroomde> lol no
[10:28] <Laurenceb__> or is it the GPS receivers now?
[10:28] <eroomde> not for years
[10:28] <Laurenceb__> ah
[10:28] <eroomde> lol no either
[10:28] <eroomde> not for years
[10:29] <eroomde> he's one of planet lab's v early employees
[10:29] <Laurenceb__> ah planet labs
[10:29] <Laurenceb__> I need to find myself a proper job
[10:30] <eroomde> yes
[10:30] <eroomde> find a space job
[10:30] <Laurenceb__> maybe... if its in the right company
[10:30] <eroomde> i'm quite pleased with the fact that a lot of early CUSFers have gone into interesting space-related jobs
[10:31] <Laurenceb__> just discovered I'm out of a job at end of next month :-/
[10:31] <infaddict> well, it is the final frontier
[10:31] <infaddict> oh no Laurenceb__
[10:31] <Laurenceb__> working on uni spinout projects sucks - its not stable employment
[10:32] <Laurenceb__> yeah - there wasnt enough funding for the contract I was supposed to work on to go ahead :S
[10:32] <Laurenceb__> found out 2 months after everyone guaranteed me it was 100% on
[10:32] <eroomde> start looking now for something fun
[10:32] <Laurenceb__> yeah thats my plan
[10:32] <amell> How many balloons are there on sunday? Im not sure which have multiple trackers.
[10:33] <eroomde> maybe hit the uk space conf in july
[10:33] <Laurenceb__> currently these guys are pestering me to send a CV....
[10:33] <Laurenceb__> http://www.heartlightsystems.com/
[10:33] <Laurenceb__> worlds worst website award
[10:34] <Laurenceb__> think i need to keep better company in future :D
[10:34] <amell> looking at the elsworth hourly for sunday morning, it appears they will all come down into the duxford air space&.
[10:35] <amell> should we be worried about loads of things on chutes descending into spitfires and hurricanes?
[10:35] <Laurenceb__> im not actually sure...
[10:36] <Laurenceb__> technically if you have a NOTAM
[10:36] <amell> 12 noon - 1pm launch looks better.
[10:37] <Laurenceb__> this looks cool http://ukspace2015.co.uk/speakers/opportunities
[10:37] <Laurenceb__> i should write something
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[10:41] <daveake> amell As it's Steve, I really doubt we need to worry
[10:41] <amell> daveake: Im sure. Just wondering what the CAA policy is on descending objects
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[10:42] <Laurenceb__> Satellite Applications Catapult
[10:43] <Laurenceb__> Steve Bong is going, cool
[10:45] <Laurenceb__> Emma Carr
[10:45] <Laurenceb__> Director - Big Brother Watch
[10:45] <Laurenceb__> hahaha wtf
[10:46] <amell> I doubt this is the TV programme...
[10:46] <eroomde> satellite applications catapult - don't get too excited
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[10:57] <Laurenceb__> yeah i doubt it involves maglev
[10:58] <Laurenceb__> my kind of catapult http://www.sciencebuzz.org/sites/default/files/images/rail-launcher.jpg
[10:58] <Laurenceb__> this does look rather depressing http://ukspace2015.co.uk/speakers
[10:58] <Laurenceb__> massive gravy train
[11:00] <Laurenceb__> maybe i should rewrite my little talk "Innovative novel synergies to cross pollinate legacy in the digital cities initiative"
[11:01] <eroomde> we're not going i don't think
[11:01] <Laurenceb__> for some reason im thinking of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W1A_%28TV_series%29
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[11:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VAYU-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VAYU-1
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[11:39] Nick change: MaXimaN_2E0XIM -> MaXimaN
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[11:55] <LunarWork> hello
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[12:02] <infaddict> afternoon LunarWork
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[12:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PI_CE2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI_CE2
[12:31] <nickjohnson> Anyone here have Geomagic design?
[12:45] <Ian_> Call me a CAD but I don't think so. there may be one or two suspects though.
[12:47] <gonzo_> you must be drawing on your reservs of puns there
[12:47] <eroomde> it is but a sketch of what he can do
[12:48] <eroomde> in full swing he can reach lofty heights
[12:51] <Laurenceb__> i use freecad
[12:51] <Laurenceb__> cuz i is cheap
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[12:54] <LunarWork> be back later
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[13:31] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[13:42] <Ian_> I use Linux, because I am cheap
[13:42] <eroomde> no one uses linux to save money on a pc surely?
[13:44] <Ian_> No, but I thought that Laurencab said, 'cuz it is cheap', just a progression. My PC is a redundant server for free.
[13:45] <Ian_> HP ML10. with super duper cheapo USB sound dongle. Last night Firefox kiboshed my YouTube rendering - need a more recent distro - drat
[13:45] <eroomde> annoying
[13:46] <Ian_> I'll probably have to dig the dust out of the box and cpu heatsink too. They have been mythering me about it since last November.
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[13:46] <Ian_> YouTube that is, not the dust.
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[14:13] <infaddict> anybody still got a link to Babs eclipse rig photos?
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[14:15] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03GKCV3B after 0314 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GKCV3B
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[14:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF5ZBW - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5ZBW
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[15:06] <Ian_> Fill your boots infaddict :) http://habhub.org/zeusbot/ Range has to be a couple of days at most , search for Babs . . .
[15:06] <infaddict> hey Ian_ - it was months ago i saw him post his flickr or photosharing link. did he post it again recently (where i missed it)?
[15:07] <infaddict> if so i will indeed search... but last actual time i saw it was a random date in distant feb/march.
[15:07] <Ian_> Indirect link. I think that it must have been within about a week of the eclipse . . . How keen are you?
[15:07] <infaddict> mmm let me search around pre-eclipse dates - good idea ;-)
[15:08] <craag> https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/albums
[15:09] <infaddict> wow thx craag!
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[15:23] <_Charlie> hi
[15:25] Nick change: Crashjuh^ -> Crashjuh
[15:26] <infaddict> hey _Charlie
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[15:35] <adamgreig> richardeoin: hey, are you about?
[15:40] <richardeoin> hey adamgreig
[15:40] <adamgreig> just wondering how the si4060 does afsk for aprs
[15:40] <adamgreig> i see you put it into gfsk mode
[15:41] <adamgreig> set the freq dev to the FM deviation (so say 10kHz or 15kHz or so?)
[15:41] <adamgreig> and then feed it 0s or 1s..
[15:41] <adamgreig> talking it through I guess I can suddenly see
[15:41] <Laurenceb__> leo just used CW
[15:41] <richardeoin> yep, the data gets fed in through the gpio1
[15:41] <adamgreig> maybe? so you feed it say 0000111100001111 to get an 'audio wave' at one frequency, and 000111000111 to get another frequency
[15:41] <Laurenceb__> then bashed the pll
[15:41] <adamgreig> Laurenceb__: lol, that works as well
[15:42] <adamgreig> richardeoin: so the idea is your input data is a square wave which is your audio tone?
[15:42] <Laurenceb__> he found it worked better
[15:42] <adamgreig> and the filtering helps turn it into sines instead of squares?
[15:42] <richardeoin> that's pretty much the idea, except there's no specific "bit rate"
[15:42] <Laurenceb__> due to pre emphesis
[15:42] <chrisstubbs> hmm, is 80 bar a little empty for a K size H2 cylinder?
[15:42] <adamgreig> right, forgot about aprs's preemphesis
[15:43] <Laurenceb__> you dont need it
[15:43] <richardeoin> you'd have to change the fm deviation on the fly to get pre-emphasis
[15:43] <richardeoin> it's on my todo list
[15:45] <richardeoin> so yeah: the atmel feeds a phase-continuous square wave in gpio1, the si4060 puts that through a digitial GFSK filter, kinda-nice spectrum comes out the end
[15:46] <Laurenceb__> nice
[15:46] <Laurenceb__> nicer than leos nasty asm :P
[15:46] <adamgreig> nice
[15:47] <adamgreig> sounds reasonable
[15:47] <richardeoin> you can play with the fm deviation value to get you're preferred high/low tone deviations, it's modeled in the notebook so you can play there
[15:47] <richardeoin> if you get it on a SA it'd be interesting to see how accurate the model is
[15:48] <richardeoin> *your
[15:48] <Laurenceb__> just bitgrab with an sdr
[15:48] <richardeoin> having a mind-blank day
[15:48] <Laurenceb__> thats how i got my silabs code running in the first place lol
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[15:49] <Laurenceb__> trial and error
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[15:51] <Laurenceb__> my experience with the GFSK shaping is that it matches the datasheet very well
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[16:10] <_Charlie> through the mean only so far XD
[16:11] <Lunar_Lander> eveing
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[16:32] <Laurenceb__> anyone here any good with matlab?
[16:32] <Laurenceb__> know a way to use NA as an index?
[16:32] <mattbrejza> NA?
[16:33] <Laurenceb__> not applicable
[16:33] <mattbrejza> so get the whole row of an array for example??
[16:33] <Laurenceb__> yeah this is going to get hard
[16:33] <Laurenceb__> ive got a 15k line file to maintain
[16:34] <Laurenceb__> and people are feeding it poorly formatted data
[16:34] <Laurenceb__> so my plan was to use NA
[16:34] <Laurenceb__> this is going to be hard :S
[16:34] <mattbrejza> well array(:,2) will get colomn 2
[16:34] <Laurenceb__> ...and
[16:42] <richardeoin> Laurenceb__: Do you have any idea how long to pre-stretch an envelope for?
[16:42] <Laurenceb__> a few hours
[16:42] <richardeoin> ah cool
[16:43] <richardeoin> I'm going to have a go tonight
[16:55] <Laurenceb__> im going to be getting confused by matlab :-/
[16:55] <Laurenceb__> i dont have the first clue what this code even does
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[17:51] <Laurenceb__> wtf
[17:51] <Laurenceb__> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36313.4100
[17:52] <Laurenceb__> what are they smoking
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[18:05] <_Charlie> madness
[18:06] <_Charlie> worst exam done now so nice and relaxed
[18:07] <_Charlie> gonna see about drawing up some boards tonight and send them off
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[18:43] <j0nnymac> hey folks - i remember seeing a guide to payload weight in relation to altitude and drift - does anyone know where that might exist as i cant remember
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[18:57] <SA6BSS-Mike> https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:balloon_data
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[19:01] <SpeedEvil> j0nnymac: weight is irrelevant
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> j0nnymac: all that matters is the altitude
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[19:03] <Laurenceb__> calling stats gurus, is the p value output from this broken?
[19:03] <Laurenceb__> http://octave.sourceforge.net/nan/function/corrcoef.html
[19:03] <Laurenceb__> i cant replicate it with my simple test code
[19:11] <j0nnymac> hi - i thought more weight = more drift?
[19:11] <j0nnymac> as more weight = less ascent metres per second
[19:13] <daveake> unless you increase gas to compensate. Altitude is key. See the calculator I linked to for how ascent rate / weight / balloon / gas relate
[19:14] <j0nnymac> gotcha - thanks
[19:14] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI_CE2 after 036 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI_CE2
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> To clarify
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> weight is irrelevant - position in the atmosphere matters only
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> for a given balloon, yes, if you put more weight, that will slow its rise for a given amount of helium.
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> But it will follow 'exactly' the same path as a lighter balloon + payload on exactly the same altitude profile over time
[19:19] <j0nnymac> ok - its just that if i use 5ms ascent in the predictor - i get this path http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=1fe1d831d25894243a6fd44a8d4d0841c4be6ef9
[19:20] <j0nnymac> and 2ms - this http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=61436ca4a14c688707f1d10670e2c7310f9fc5dc
[19:20] <daveake> yes of course - lower ascent rate so it spends more time at lower altitudes
[19:20] <daveake> Also, at 2m/s, it's very likely to float rather than burst
[19:21] <j0nnymac> ok - thanks
[19:22] <j0nnymac> keep the float thing in mind
[19:22] <j0nnymac> :)
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[19:30] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> Is that true?
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> I mean - yes, it's clearly true if you put in less He
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> but if you add ballast - won't the burst diameter be constnat
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[19:30] <SpeedEvil> err - no
[19:31] <SpeedEvil> it may change teh behaviour, but not as simply as that
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[19:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03E3SPCE - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=E3SPCE
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[19:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CHEAPO - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CHEAPO
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[20:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ECC1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ECC1
[20:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SPARK - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SPARK
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[20:30] <Herman_> !flights
[20:30] <SpacenearUS> 03Herman_: Current flights:
[20:32] <fsphil> everyone's grounded tonight
[20:34] <lz1dev> !flights
[20:34] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: Current flights:
[20:34] <lz1dev> wut
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[20:59] <Babs> evening everyone - is anyone on who knows a little about pwm on the ntx2?
[21:00] <eroomde> first rule of irc
[21:01] <kc2pit> Is the first rule "Yeah, someone probably knows" or "Don't ask to ask, just ask"? I forget.
[21:01] <eroomde> 2nd one
[21:01] <eroomde> of which bab's was a sort of variation on the theme
[21:01] <Babs> politeness is my forte
[21:01] <Babs> so, anyway
[21:02] <eroomde> politeness is a fart
[21:02] <Babs> i switched the tx pin around to a different pin from the standard arduino pin 10 because it was neater on my board
[21:02] <Babs> got the boards made up, made up 4 of them. all beautiful.
[21:03] <Babs> soldered in an ntx2, and the thing didn't transmit
[21:03] <Babs> looked back and saw the pin 10 i used before was a pwm pin, and the one i switched it to wasn't
[21:03] <Babs> clever babs .....
[21:04] <Babs> is it feasible to do some sort of fake pwm on a non-pwm pin so i don't need to get the boards remade, and make another load?
[21:04] <eroomde> so the question is, can you still make pwm on your new pin
[21:04] <eroomde> question 1) which chip is your arduino based on
[21:04] <Babs> atmega328
[21:04] <eroomde> question 2) which pin of that chip are you plugged into
[21:05] <eroomde> [1..32]
[21:05] <Babs> transmit pin is pin 8 or eqivalently pb0
[21:06] <Babs> i am so annoyed with myself
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[21:06] <SpeedEvil> Babs: well, interrupt driver, based on time, and then GPIO flip in the handler to do the PWM
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> it'll suck a lot more CPU, but...
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> ^handler
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[21:08] <Babs> i do not know what any of that means..
[21:08] <kc2pit> Either that or get out the kynar debugger and 300°C compiler.
[21:09] <Babs> i could just solder one of the pins directly as a jumper i guess
[21:09] <Babs> but it is so ugly
[21:10] <daveake> No need to cut anything; set the unused pin as an input and solder to a PWM pin
[21:10] <kc2pit> Looks like PB1 is a timer/counter output pin. You wouldn't even need wire if you can repeatably short those with a solder blob.
[21:10] <kc2pit> Unless that's used for something else.
[21:12] <Babs> pb1 is broken out but i don't need to use it
[21:12] <eroomde> yeah use pb1
[21:12] <eroomde> output compare 1A
[21:12] <Babs> ok, so what do i need to do?
[21:13] <eroomde> get the atmega328p datasheet from the net
[21:13] <eroomde> infact what is pb1 connected to in arduinoland?
[21:13] <eroomde> does it have an arduino name?
[21:13] <eroomde> because you may just be able to use it for pwm
[21:13] <eroomde> without having to drop out of arduino libraries
[21:13] <eroomde> which will save you some faff
[21:14] <Babs> ahh ok. i think you re saying put a solder blob between pb1 to pb 0
[21:14] <eroomde> yes
[21:15] <Babs> that is easy. lets fire up the iron...
[21:15] <kc2pit> PB1 appears to be Arduino's 9.
[21:16] <kc2pit> So make sure PB0 (Arduino 8) stays configured as an input, short PB0 to PB1, and analogWrite(9, stuff) to your heart's content.
[21:16] <eroomde> ok
[21:16] <eroomde> configure 8 to be an input
[21:16] <eroomde> and 9 to be pwm if you can
[21:16] <eroomde> my lack of arduino knowledge is not helping
[21:17] <Babs> i can do that i thin. i get where you are coming from.
[21:18] <eroomde> 8 being an input means it won't try and pull pin9 in any which way when you solderbridge
[21:18] <Babs> at the moment i pulse through pb0. but if i short pb1 and pb0 it should work by pulsing pb1?
[21:18] <eroomde> yes
[21:18] <eroomde> with the above proviso
[21:18] <Babs> as in i pulse the pwm pin, but via the short its connected to the tx pin
[21:19] <eroomde> yep
[21:19] Action: SpacenearUS is going for a nap.
[21:19] <Babs> ahh ok i understand. 5 mins, let me try.
[21:19] Action: SpacenearUS is back!
[21:19] <eroomde> we just went past my house. very weird
[21:20] <eroomde> am being driven to hereford by a nice swedish girl from brixton
[21:21] <craag> and yet you're on irc..?
[21:21] <Lunar_Lander> gsm?
[21:21] <eroomde> yeah well it's a boring drive and i have my laptop
[21:21] <eroomde> and she's singing along to abba just to upset me
[21:22] <craag> hehe
[21:22] <eroomde> i campaigned for radio 3
[21:22] <eroomde> vetoed.
[21:23] <Babs> a nice swedish girl from brixton sounds like a lyric from a smiths song
[21:23] <eroomde> she doesn't know the smiths so that was lost on her
[21:23] <Babs> solder short done. reprogramming...
[21:23] <eroomde> much education needed
[21:24] <Babs> punctured bicycle. on a hillside, desolate.
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[21:51] <Babs> eroomde, kc2pit you are both Gods of microelectronics. it worked.
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[21:58] <eroomde> i was glad, to quote thomas parry
[21:58] <eroomde> to celebrate i've just bought a textbook on gas turbine theory
[21:59] <eroomde> friday nights are the best.
[21:59] <eroomde> hubert parry sorry
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[22:46] <Laurenceb_> didnt realise these guys were in uk
[22:46] <Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NuiQTDanHx0
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[22:47] <chrisstubbs> anyone around to approve on #habhub?
[22:48] <Laurenceb_> i like how they dolled up their only female employee for the video
[22:48] <eroomde> they\re near culham
[22:48] <eroomde> ex jet people
[22:48] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[22:49] <Laurenceb_> looks promising, but i still think pulsed fusion has more chance of working
[22:49] <Laurenceb_> the helion approach
[22:49] <Laurenceb_> http://www.helionenergy.com/
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[22:51] <Laurenceb_> to be fair their website doesnt actually make much sense, but the concept does
[22:52] <Laurenceb_> achieve crazy high power density by accelerating plasmoids to ~c then colliding
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[22:52] <Laurenceb_> also doable with solid state switching and copper coils (with difficulty)
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> Great - if it works.
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-EC824_Helion_G_20140814162815.jpg
[22:55] <SpeedEvil> Fusion isn't remotely hard.
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> commercial yield now...
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[22:56] Action: SpeedEvil ponders posting that to the annoying person going on about coilguns on ##electronics
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> haha
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> yeah its basically two coilguns firing at each other
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> except without whirling lead and lots of hammers.
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> This is an unfortunate downside
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallturm_Bremen
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> Neat.
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if someone has an office on top
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> heh
[23:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LARDY-PICO - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LARDY-PICO
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> Is 'concrete shank' a germanism I wonder
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[23:21] <Laurenceb_> how EMdrive works: cold fusion converts faster than light neutrinos to dark energy, giving thrust
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> also, WTF http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19800010907.pdf
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> :)
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> NASA == Not A Sane Article
[23:22] <SpeedEvil> If you're spending billions on rockets, spending a few million on crap that almost certainly won't work isn't unreasonable.
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> Effects on minerals, plants, animals, and humans should be studied to gain insight into the radiation emitted by UFOs
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[23:58] <_Charlie> lol
[00:00] --- Sat May 23 2015