highaltitude.log.20150520

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[07:43] <amell> sunday afternoon looks like very good HAB weather.
[07:44] Action: amell wonders if there is a page that links to all the hourly predicts.
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[10:36] <infaddict> Anybody know of waterproof laptop covers that keep it dry whilst open and in use? found plenty that are waterproof whilst shut, but none that allow you to type and use it.
[10:36] <infaddict> e.g. http://www.pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1070CC
[10:36] <infaddict> nice case, but only waterproof when shut.
[10:41] <gonzo_> a big clear plastic bag
[10:42] <gonzo_> I assume you just want to protect from rain. As fully enclosing may cause colling problems
[10:42] <gonzo_> cooling
[10:44] <infaddict> yep just rain protection really. cooling is a good point.
[10:44] <infaddict> cling film?!
[10:46] <SpeedEvil> A tent.
[10:48] <infaddict> lol, thinking more of mobile tracking via dongle
[10:48] <infaddict> Most will be in car i know but being England its likely to be peeing down ;-)
[10:50] <SpeedEvil> The nuclear option is a waterproof laptop :)
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PANASONIC-TOUGHBOOK-TABLET-CF-19-10-4-MK2-C2D-1-06GHz-2GB-120GB-WINDOWS-VISTA-/400877544208?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5d5629e310
[10:54] <infaddict> interesting idea
[10:54] <infaddict> a lot safer than carrying a £1500 macbook around countryside
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[10:56] <christopherlee> Have to admit i have just made sure it stays in boot or the car seat. One reason i did like the look of some of the other tracking solutions using LORA devices
[10:57] <SpeedEvil> A tablet, with a waterproof case, and a waterproof keyboard is another option
[10:57] <adamgreig> just receive it inside the car and write down the gps positions usually
[10:57] <adamgreig> oh, unless you're trying to foxhunt with an sdr
[10:57] <adamgreig> i usually bring along my garmin handheld GPS (though most smartphones would work fine too) for final locating
[10:58] <infaddict> tablet cant accept sdr dongle so cant use that. a netbook would tho.
[10:58] <infaddict> yep adamgreig i have ViewRanger full OS mapping on my iPhone so will use that once on foot I think
[10:58] <infaddict> as you say, one option is to leave all the tracking kit in car once you have a GPS location.
[10:58] <adamgreig> in which case I should just get a GPS position in the car and leave the expensive laptop behind
[10:59] <adamgreig> or hope it's not raining :P
[10:59] <infaddict> yep. if it comes to yagi direction finding/no location then have to pray its not raining hehe
[10:59] <Vaizki> I don't think you want to launch in rain anyway?
[11:00] <craag> Vaizki: Then when would us brits ever launch?
[11:00] <infaddict> If I've done all the hard work to get it all approved, load the car up and travel down country, I probably would launch if raining.
[11:01] <infaddict> exactly craag
[11:01] <adamgreig> launching during rain is a thoroughly miserable experience
[11:01] <infaddict> i can imagine
[11:01] <adamgreig> all the rain that lands on the balloon ends up running down your sleeve basically
[11:01] <adamgreig> and you're cold and something's always not working to boot
[11:01] <infaddict> also camera lenses likely to get wet
[11:02] <adamgreig> i recommend waiting for a clear moment before launching in rain, but you can't control whether it'l be raining when it touches down
[11:02] <infaddict> in my head i have a lovely summers day, green grass, blue sky
[11:02] <craag> sounds like you've got your head in the clouds infaddict ;)
[11:03] <christopherlee> Windows 8.1 tablets can be picked up cheap, but not sure how well they cope with both sdr. I had mixed results so went with macbook in end.
[11:03] <infaddict> mmm i think for part time hobbyist like me, trying to use existing kit makes sense. anybody doing regular stuff needs more dedicated kit i guess.
[11:05] <craag> It's easy to look at fancy toys for launches (eg. steve's fill meter ohmygodyesplease)
[11:06] <craag> But if you can do it with stuff you've got - it can reduce stress on the day when you already know the stuff you have
[11:07] <infaddict> ooh what is steves fill meter?
[11:08] <SpeedEvil> A really fancy gas flow meter
[11:08] <infaddict> to monitor your balloon fill accurately. very nice.
[11:10] <craag> Yeah no messing about with a fish scale bouncing from 10g - 1kg in the wind, trying to estimate if you have have 550g +-20g.
[11:11] <craag> But - we make do with fish scales :)
[11:18] <Vaizki> I have run dl-fldigi on a win 8.1 tablet connected to a ft817nd
[11:19] <Vaizki> just testing the setup though
[11:19] <Vaizki> not used in anger
[11:21] <Vaizki> how is RDF done with a SDR-dongle btw, just looking at spectrogram peaks and dBm levels?
[11:21] <Vaizki> or do you use software that produces a tone of different frequencies for different signal levels etc?
[11:24] <Vaizki> of course running several Airspys locked together and a phased array of antennas on a roof rack I could RDF from the car
[11:24] <Vaizki> (no, not really going to do it :)
[11:34] <gonzo_> there was an analogue version of that, sold by Datong in the UK
[11:34] <gonzo_> very old now
[11:37] <dbrooke> there are similar ones still about, search for doppler df
[11:37] <Vaizki> With one airspy, 5 whip antennas in a circle and a switcher should get under 5deg accuracy
[11:38] <Vaizki> but it's a big build just for no loc backup
[11:38] <craag> A handheld 4-ele yagi on an fm handheld works alright.
[11:39] <Vaizki> yea just pondering :)
[11:39] <craag> Listen to the quieting caused by the clicking
[11:39] <Vaizki> ?
[11:40] <craag> With rtty you'll just get clicking on an fm demodulator
[11:40] <craag> But you can guage the S/N by the noise in the background
[11:40] <craag> Holding the handheld with stock antenna close to your chest and walking in circles also works
[11:41] <Vaizki> Hmm ok so auto gain boosts noise when snr drops?
[11:41] <craag> yep
[11:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF5FPX-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5FPX-11
[11:41] <Vaizki> makes sense
[11:41] <craag> follow the clearest clicks
[11:41] <craag> :)
[11:42] <Vaizki> So no use in having USB for RDF
[11:43] <craag> It's preferable certainly. But in that case I had final rtty position, and didn't want to lug laptop+sdr through the field.
[11:43] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W5YW-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W5YW-11
[11:45] <dbrooke> attenuators can be useful when closer
[11:47] <tweetBot> @horizonqmgs: Polystyrene everywhere as construction of the #sunchaser probes continues: http://t.co/fIXJ87afd7 @QM1554 #ukhas http://t.co/3cGyq6YcJu
[11:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K5LSU-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K5LSU-11
[11:51] <Vaizki> craag, right.. I actually have 2 usb-capable portable receivers so pretty set if I ever get to launching something....
[11:52] <Vaizki> one of them is a portable spectrum analyzer but it demodulates AM/FM/SSB audio out to a 3.5mm jack
[11:53] <Vaizki> spec an display might work ok for RDF too :)
[11:56] <craag> Oh nice - sounds perfect
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[12:01] <Vaizki> it's a pretty weird spec an though because there is no way to adjust RBW directly.. so it seems to sweep reaallllyyy slow even if looking at a very small span. but still manages to demod broadcast fm or usb while doing it.
[12:01] <Vaizki> maybe I'm just Doing It Wrong, haven't had a proper play with it yet
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[12:10] Action: nickjohnson is getting his new scope with specan this friday :)
[12:11] <Vaizki> ... or maybe I should just RTFM once in a while.. which says RBW is fixed at 2.4kHz if in SSB mode and the span can't be smaller than 1MHz. but in FM mode rbw is 12.5kHz.
[12:11] <Vaizki> so might get a much faster sweep by using FM for RDF
[12:13] <Vaizki> nickjohnson, oo which one? I got the rigol 1054z which is amazing for the price.. but my better specan is non-portable and actually a gsm test set
[12:13] <Vaizki> I mean better specan than this portable weirdo (a protek)
[12:13] <nickjohnson> Vaizki: MDO3054 :)
[12:13] <Vaizki> I see
[12:13] <Vaizki> we clearly paid too much for the tsunami ;)
[12:14] <nickjohnson> I had the DS1054Z too, it's a nice scope for the price. Sold it when someone offered me the MDO for a ridiculously low price
[12:14] <nickjohnson> Heh
[12:14] <eroomde> this is still my favourite thing in tv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFWeoxrhbE8
[12:14] <Vaizki> I would take a MDO3054 for a ridicilously low price too :(
[12:14] <nickjohnson> Basically, Tek discontinued the option with specan preinstalled. RS electronics went "oh, discontinued item, let's discount it to 1/3 MSRP" and a bunch of people snapped it up
[12:15] <nickjohnson> Mine's actually an MDO3034 with all the upgrades applied :P
[12:15] <Vaizki> uhuhu
[12:15] <Vaizki> not fair :D
[12:15] <eroomde> and i am delivering it to him in 2 days
[12:15] <nickjohnson> And it cost me £2300 vs £5740 retail price
[12:15] <eroomde> s days and 2 hours
[12:15] <nickjohnson> eroomde: And I can't bloody wait :P
[12:15] <eroomde> 2 days and 2 hours*
[12:15] <nickjohnson> Though the first task I have for it is disappointingly mundane
[12:15] <nickjohnson> 2 days and 3 hours by my watch
[12:16] <eroomde> floor
[12:17] <nickjohnson> heh
[12:17] <Vaizki> that is a nice scope. although to be fair I don't need a scope that nice right now and when I do in a few years, similar ones will probably cost <2k anyway :)
[12:17] <nickjohnson> Yeah, it's more scope than I need right now, but I'm never going to get offered it that cheap again :P
[12:18] <eroomde> snap
[12:18] <eroomde> (i got the 1GHz version from same guy)
[12:18] <eroomde> actually i'm using it now
[12:18] <nickjohnson> And I'm not so sure about that, I suspect the current crop of scopes like the DS1054Z fill most needs of hobbyists just fine, so there's little incentive for manufacturers to make more capable ones cheaper.
[12:18] <eroomde> a really wide band amplifier for particle detectors
[12:18] <nickjohnson> I also got the logic analyzer pod, so I can sell my Saleae
[12:18] <nickjohnson> eroomde: Interesting. In SA mode, or Scope mode?
[12:19] <nickjohnson> My near field probes came with a nice +10dB LNA
[12:19] <eroomde> scope
[12:19] <nickjohnson> Which cost a lot less than the MDO3034 ;)
[12:19] <eroomde> needs to be scope
[12:19] <eroomde> as you are amplifying random pulse shapres from a detector
[12:19] <eroomde> shapes*
[12:20] <Vaizki> nickjohnson, sure.. these are low volume products I know. so even though ADCs and FPGAs are getting a lot better and fast, not sure if there's a market to drive prices down
[12:20] <nickjohnson> Vaizki: That's kind of what I think, yeah
[12:20] <nickjohnson> eroomde: Ah, right
[12:20] <Vaizki> what I really want to see is RTSA stuff crash down in price
[12:20] <nickjohnson> I think a hobbyist level SA would be pretty cool
[12:21] <nickjohnson> Until I got offered this scope, that was my next dilemma. The cheapest SA worth the name is still too expensive.
[12:21] <Vaizki> I got 2x R&S boxes with SA inside for 130 euros each :)
[12:22] <Vaizki> not very feature rich SAs but they do seem to work ok
[12:22] <nickjohnson> R&S?
[12:22] <nickjohnson> That's certainly a good price for anything that can be an SA
[12:22] <Vaizki> rohde & schwarz
[12:23] <nickjohnson> Where did you get those?
[12:23] <Vaizki> broadcom shut down operations in finland and uk, I bid on them
[12:23] <nickjohnson> ah, right
[12:23] <nickjohnson> So that's not retail price :P
[12:23] <Vaizki> no no :)
[12:26] <Vaizki> I would be happy to get something like the RSA306 for 500 euros.. please..
[12:26] <Vaizki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Kuebq2LqIo
[12:26] <nickjohnson> It does seem like making a simple sweep based specan for a reasonable price shouldn't be intractable
[12:27] <nickjohnson> I'm not going to do it, though :P
[12:27] <Vaizki> no, RSA306 is a real time SA
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[12:27] <Vaizki> 40MHz real-time display span
[12:28] <nickjohnson> Yes, I wasn't referring to that particular SA
[12:29] <eroomde> Vaizki: do you have any of those cmu200 communications test sets?
[12:29] <eroomde> there are lots of those around
[12:29] <Vaizki> yes I have 2 of them right now.. they cost me 350euros apiece I think..
[12:31] <Vaizki> I need to test them and then let go of one of them
[12:31] <Vaizki> the cheaper ones are CRTU-RU ones
[12:31] <Vaizki> they have SA also but only one siggen (cmu200 has two) and less AF stuff etc
[12:32] <nickjohnson> eroomde: I'm thinking I might lasercut a little box with a bulkhead mount BNC jack to bring out the siggen on the MSO somewhere I can access it more easily
[12:34] <eroomde> aye
[12:34] <eroomde> or just a floating bnc cable :)
[12:35] <Vaizki> nickjohnson, so instead of sweep specan you can build us this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxBrp0XUmMc&feature=youtu.be&t=3m5s
[12:36] <Vaizki> it would make a nice SDR also ;)
[12:37] <nickjohnson> Vaizki: Wow, that's pretty neat
[12:37] <Vaizki> but it's >3k USD
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[12:38] <Vaizki> build cost.. $55? :)
[12:38] <nickjohnson> I'm going to have to see if I can do anything approaching that on the MDO
[12:38] <nickjohnson> But I already said I'm not building it :P
[12:38] <eroomde> Vaizki: so what features does the cmu200 have?
[12:38] <Vaizki> umm no.. you want a RSA6000 for that
[12:39] <nickjohnson> Vaizki: That reviewer really needs a better microphone
[12:39] <Vaizki> eroomde, 10MHz-2.7GHz specan and dual siggens.. power meter.. hmm
[12:39] <Vaizki> the sig gens are just RF carrier generators without modulation
[12:39] <eroomde> can the siggens track with the specan?
[12:40] <Vaizki> nope
[12:40] <Vaizki> I wish..
[12:40] <eroomde> yeah
[12:40] <eroomde> well i guess with two you can mix at least
[12:40] <Vaizki> nope
[12:40] <Vaizki> not internally
[12:40] <eroomde> are they not independant?
[12:40] <eroomde> no sure
[12:40] <eroomde> was assuming an external mixer
[12:40] <eroomde> as a device under test
[12:41] <eroomde> i really just want a vna a lot
[12:41] <gonzo_> or use a high power noise source instead of a TG
[12:42] <Vaizki> I don't think the LO is easily accessible from inside the unit either
[12:42] <eroomde> i wonder if you could script the mdo sufficient to be a vna with an external siggen
[12:42] <eroomde> sufficiently*
[12:42] <eroomde> so you have an rf siggen which you sweep
[12:42] <eroomde> and you tee its output into the scope
[12:43] <eroomde> then you pass it through a DUT and put that output into the scope
[12:43] <eroomde> then just sample and send over the network to your pc
[12:43] <eroomde> and that does phase and mag difference between channels
[12:44] <eroomde> to a first approximation let's say your scope does from 2mV/div to 20V/div
[12:44] <eroomde> that's a range of 10000
[12:44] <eroomde> and it can do 8 bit samples within 10 divs so about 25 samples per div
[12:44] <nickjohnson> eroomde: That's kind of the application I had in mind for the Tsunami's aux output
[12:44] <nickjohnson> Not VNAs, but using two inputs on the scope to track and calculate
[12:44] <eroomde> 20*log(25*10000) = a bit under 110dB
[12:45] <eroomde> which is respectable
[12:45] <Vaizki> one nice thing in the cmu200 is that it has a nice power ratings.. +13dBm output and +47dBm on one of the RF inputs for power metering etc
[12:45] <eroomde> i'd still much rather have a VNA but that'd to in a pinch for 0-1GHz stuff
[12:45] <eroomde> Vaizki: so the power sensor head is built in?
[12:46] <Vaizki> well I'm no expert but yes it seems so
[12:46] <eroomde> that's nice
[12:46] <eroomde> those are a few hundred quid on their own
[12:47] <eroomde> it can demodulate too, that's nice
[12:48] <eroomde> i know lots of specans can do that but it's still nice
[12:48] <Vaizki> and you can use the specan up to +47dBm too
[12:48] <eroomde> i wonder if it can measure distortion in amps
[12:49] <Vaizki> it has 4 x N-connectors on the front, 2 are in/out, 1 in-only, 1 out-only
[12:49] <Vaizki> they have different power ratings, uncertainty levels and noise floors
[12:50] <Vaizki> the gui is pretty atrocious though because it was not built to be a general purpose instrument but to run specialized GSM test cases
[12:51] <Vaizki> can't argue with the price though
[12:53] <eroomde> indeed
[12:55] <Vaizki> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/367935/Photo%2015.4.2015%2019.09.29.jpg
[12:55] <Vaizki> my auction loot
[12:56] <infaddict> nice haul! 4 of the same model?
[12:56] <Vaizki> no, 2x cmu200 and 2x crtu-ru
[12:56] <SpeedEvil> Vaizki: 2k?
[12:57] <Vaizki> 2k?
[12:57] <SpeedEvil> 2000 pounds
[12:57] <Vaizki> nah more like 1k
[12:58] <Vaizki> wait.. + VAT 24% (yea I know!) but that's not meaningful for me because I bought them for my company
[13:00] <Vaizki> paid 23 euros for the CRTU-PU .. :)
[13:00] <Vaizki> which is the box with no display and a floppy drive
[13:01] <Vaizki> I have to tear it down, seems to be just a windows vista PC with RF boards stacked in
[13:01] <UpuWork> damn
[13:01] <UpuWork> which auction was this ? :)
[13:01] <Vaizki> the one I kept advertising here ;)
[13:02] <Vaizki> was a similar one in Wales
[13:02] <UpuWork> doing them up to sell on ?
[13:03] <Vaizki> I will keep 2 and sell 2
[13:03] Action: nickjohnson is now watching the EEVBlog MDO3000 teardown
[13:03] <Vaizki> have to make sure they are ok and somewhat in spec and options etc
[13:03] <Vaizki> just haven't had time
[13:06] <Vaizki> I also bought an Anritsu 3700A
[13:06] <Vaizki> but Anritsu has not approved my registration so I can't download the PC software for it
[13:07] <craag> Anyone been
[13:07] <craag> err
[13:08] <craag> Anyone been testing a payload in manchester? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/20/car_park_vehicle_locks_hacked_en_masse/
[13:12] <Vaizki> nice.. been waiting for that to spread widely :P
[13:13] <nickjohnson> eroomde: Surprised to see that the ADCs aren't on the frontend PCB in the MDO3000
[13:13] <nickjohnson> So the 100-500MHz models have the same ADC as the 1GHz one
[13:18] <mattbrejza> so glad youtube can speed up videos, very useful for dave videos
[13:19] <Vaizki> dave is a bit long winded sure.. :)
[13:31] <mattbrejza> well seems that thing needs the adc speed to sample the rf too
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[13:42] <nickjohnson> mattbrejza: indeed
[13:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PI_CE2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI_CE2
[13:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KI6RC-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KI6RC-11
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[14:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> humm
[14:51] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[14:57] <mfa298> "The attack was probably carried out using a £30 jamming device bought over the internet." - that's a bit of profit on an ntx2b
[15:00] <UpuWork> I made my friend (Policeman) and RFM22B based jammer a while back as a proof of concept
[15:02] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[15:02] <mfa298> pong
[15:02] <cm13g09> see PM
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[15:06] <gonzo_> rfm's will only be low power. Use a cheap UHF hheld off ebay, and you get 5watts
[15:07] <infaddict> what freq range does this stuff use?
[15:07] <gonzo_> will flatten every keyfob rx, so nometter how close the owner gets, no go
[15:07] <gonzo_> 434.9
[15:08] <gonzo_> and there have been amateur radio repeaters close to that freq for decades
[15:08] <infaddict> yep thats close
[15:09] <mfa298> infaddict: you'll (potentially) learn all about this when you chase your first balloon and then find you can't get back into your car
[15:09] <infaddict> lol
[15:09] <gonzo_> it was less problem when most UK cars used 418MHz. The 434.9 is EU wide allocation. But I have a feeling the EU amature bandplan is a littl;e different, nso the repeaters were not as close to the keyfob freq
[15:10] <Vaizki> a uhf handheld swamps the whole freq?
[15:10] <Vaizki> Freq range
[15:10] <gonzo_> but for convenience and eu harmonisation, thet started using 434.9 in the UK as well. And oh dear, they have problems
[15:10] <infaddict> i'm gonna press my fob next time im tracking to see if it pops up
[15:11] <mfa298> Vaizki: possibly more that it desenses the rx in the car so it doesn't hear the weak signal from the fob
[15:12] <gonzo_> a 5watt handheld would have enough power that it would justr flatten the car receivers, so even if you were not actually transmitting on the keyfib freq, you could still desentitise them enough that they would not hear the weak keyfob sig
[15:12] <gonzo_> so it;'s poss for these probs to happen, even with perfectly legal amateur transmissions
[15:13] <Vaizki> Right, just wondering how wideband those jammers are
[15:13] <infaddict> presume it tx's some sort of unique & encrypted code?
[15:13] <gonzo_> the road recovery people have known about thios for years. Their only fix is to tow the car away from the strong signal
[15:13] <infaddict> or use a key
[15:14] <gonzo_> if the car will allow you to start it that way. Mine won't
[15:14] <gonzo_> you can open/lock it but no way of disabling the immobiliser
[15:14] <infaddict> ah right
[15:14] <infaddict> what protocol are they tx'ing?
[15:15] <gonzo_> there are often emergency override codes. But often lost when cars are sold on
[15:15] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[15:15] <gonzo_> keyfobs are just ppm pulses
[15:15] <craag> this is why you can't get 70cm repeaters approved in anywhere remotely urban any more
[15:15] <gonzo_> yep
[15:15] <gonzo_> and some existing ones have been taken off
[15:16] <Ian_> 433.800MHz used to be good for blocking cars, quick key up when it's raining and someone is returning to their car carrying a 24 pack of beer . . . Always let them in on a third attempt and never block a lock, just the unlock.
[15:17] <adamgreig> surely the trick is to block the unlock and then take the beer? :p
[15:17] <adamgreig> or, you know, the car. what a system.
[15:17] <adamgreig> car keyfobs are such a horribly insecure thing considering the cost of the cars
[15:17] <gonzo_> that is cruel. And I've never done it. Honest
[15:20] <gonzo_> if the keyfobs all have a common PN key, or they have a selection for that car type. Then if you jam it for enough attempts, the car and fob get out of sync. The owner is forced to go through the resync sequence. So you can start trying known codes
[15:21] <gonzo_> that may not work these days, but did try it with some of our company cars once when someone lost thie fob and we managed to get another one synced up
[15:22] <gonzo_> This was a system where you had to take the fob batt out to zero it back to it;s PN start
[15:23] <infaddict> mmm i remember in 80's/early 90's a lot of that stuff going on
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[15:24] <Vaizki> Now with expensive cars having proximity keys they use amps to open cars outside houses
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[15:25] <Vaizki> Or rather repeaters
[15:28] <Vaizki> The cars should really check ToA for challenges but guess not
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[15:32] <gonzo_> early radio fobs were fixed code, very simple to false
[15:32] <gonzo_> later rolling code ones, but as usual it's the human element that was the weak point
[15:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VORTEX1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VORTEX1
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[16:01] <eroomde> the way one of my american customers say 'continuity' makes me think he's talking about an obnoxious person's pension scheme
[16:03] <guest4563> hi
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[16:08] <eroomde> welcome guest4563
[16:08] <guest4563> hi eroomde
[16:16] <arko> eroomde: caw-tin-new-ity?
[16:16] <arko> more it-ee*
[16:16] <eroomde> arko: yep that'd be the one
[16:17] <arko> :P
[16:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SBS001 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SBS001
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[16:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VORTEX4 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VORTEX4
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[17:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KT5TK-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KT5TK-11
[17:27] <michal_f> daveake - are you there ?
[17:35] <fsphil> SBS001 seems to be upside down
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[17:35] <fsphil> http://ssdv.habhub.org/SBS001
[17:38] <michal_f> http://onebigphoto.com/uploads/2013/08/owl-tilts-her-head.jpg
[17:38] <michal_f> :]
[17:39] Action: fsphil rotates monitor
[17:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VORTEX5 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VORTEX5
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[17:51] <fsphil> return of Lunar_Lander's straw? :)
[17:52] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[18:01] <Lunar_Lander> next flight will have the antenna rotated by 45°
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[18:57] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> http://sail.planetary.org/
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> lightsail - they now have packets
[19:03] <SpeedEvil> 32m^2 of 4.5um mylar
[19:03] <Reb-SM3ULC> it's up?
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> yes
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> not rigged yet.
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[19:12] <baird> No chance of TLEs yet?
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[19:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Chevy_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Chevy_chase
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[19:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ6OMN-O - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ6OMN-O
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[20:52] Nick change: baird_ -> baird
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[21:12] <AdamDynamic> I'm just figuring out how I'm going to build a ground plane antenna using this guide https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payload_antenna
[21:12] <AdamDynamic> Does it matter if the wire you use is multi-core instead of single core?
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[21:15] <craag> AdamDynamic: Nope, multicore may be better in fact.
[21:15] <AdamDynamic> Ah, good news! I have no single-core but more multi-core than I know what to do with :)
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> evening craag
[21:17] <craag> evening Lunar_Lander
[21:17] <craag> How are you?
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> good thanks and you?
[21:18] <craag> Yeah good ta. Film+Pizza+Cake at SUSF 2nd birthday celebration this evening :D
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> nice!
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> happy birthday to SUSF :)
[21:18] <lilafisch> happy birthday susf :)
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[21:19] <lilafisch> almost went there but had some other things on my plate :/
[21:19] <lilafisch> are you still going?
[21:19] <craag> Nope finished about 9
[21:19] <craag> Watched apollo 13
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> one of the best things is IMO the start of Day 6
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> where the walkman floats around and the battery goes flat
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> and then, the urine bag detaches from the wall
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[21:21] <craag> yeah
[21:23] <lilafisch> in that case I'll go home now^^
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[21:31] <Ian_> AdamDynamic if made with multi-core wire, it will be more flexible and less likely to fracture in use, but use drinking straws to support the wire for rigidity :)
[21:31] <Ian_> *wires
[21:31] <AdamDynamic> I've got some drinking straws
[21:31] <craag> drinking straws are always a good plan
[21:31] <AdamDynamic> Is there a set length that the wires for the ground plane have to be?
[21:32] <AdamDynamic> (i.e. 164mm as well?)
[21:32] <craag> ideally infinite
[21:32] <craag> but 164mm is a good compromise ;)
[21:32] <Ian_> But at least as long as the radiator
[21:32] <AdamDynamic> So "as long as possible" then?
[21:33] <craag> Nah jsut make them ~17cm
[21:33] <craag> Any more has very little extra gain, isn't worth the effort
[21:33] <AdamDynamic> Ah ok, I'll stick to the instructions then :)
[21:33] <craag> :)
[21:33] <Ian_> :::)
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[21:44] <michal_f> hi all - I have problems with uBlox gps talking to raspberry over I2c
[21:44] <michal_f> anyone with expertise ?
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[21:47] <mattbrejza> you have to bitbang it as the pi's i2c is weird
[21:47] <mattbrejza> it doesnt support pulse stretching or something like that
[21:47] <michal_f> that's right
[21:48] <michal_f> I tried rrunning pits code on it, but the chip keeps returning 0xff character - which means smth. like 'no data'
[21:48] <michal_f> if I understand correctly
[21:49] <michal_f> I should probably wait for daveake or upu to show up - they'll now for sure
[21:50] <adamgreig> 0xff also can mean "you haven't connected it right"
[21:50] <eroomde> touching faith.
[21:51] <adamgreig> last person with exactly this problem on a raspberri pi had it fixed when i asked them to take a photo and in doing so they tidied the cable a bit and it started working
[21:51] <adamgreig> hmmm
[21:51] <adamgreig> maybe they were using an arduino mega actually?
[21:51] <eroomde> with little bits of solid core jammed into the headers?
[21:52] <adamgreig> is there any other way?
[21:52] <michemto> Hi - does anyone have good notification sign for payload over here?
[21:52] <eroomde> enough to make me want to go to bed and abandon the universe for a few hours
[21:52] <adamgreig> flare gun?
[21:52] <eroomde> so, nn
[21:52] <adamgreig> seeya eroomde
[21:52] <michal_f> loose wires - I can check that
[21:53] <adamgreig> worth checking
[21:56] <michemto> Noone? :D
[22:00] <adamgreig> michemto: what do you mean exactly?
[22:00] <adamgreig> my 'flare gun' suggestion was a bit tongue in cheek
[22:00] <michemto> I mean notification letter for potential payload finder
[22:00] <adamgreig> oh
[22:01] <adamgreig> usually i just stick "if found please call <phone number>"
[22:01] <adamgreig> few ever do but it happens
[22:04] <gonzo_nb> 'non hazardous scientific payload'
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[22:06] <michal_f> replacing wires didn't help :/
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[22:08] <richardeoin> michemto G0TDJ has a nice design, he was giving them out last conference
[22:09] <richardeoin> might be online somewhere
[22:09] <craag> !wiki payload label
[22:09] <SpacenearUS> 03craag: Wiki page 03guides_payload_labels - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides_payload_labels
[22:09] <SpacenearUS> 03craag: Wiki page 03payload_labels (guides) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payload_labels
[22:09] <SpacenearUS> 03craag: Wiki page 03danish (guides_payload_labels) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides_payload_labels:danish
[22:09] <michemto> I guess you are talking about this - http://www.g0tdj.com/PDF/payload_label.pdf
[22:09] <michemto> :)
[22:09] <richardeoin> ta-da
[22:09] <michemto> Ty
[22:10] <michal_f> but the software acts the same with disconnected gps
[22:11] <michal_f> still, i2cdetect shows my gps at expected adress 42
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[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> good nigh!
[22:44] <Lunar_Lander> *night
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[23:06] <michal_f> night all
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[23:34] <Ian_> michemto "Reward" is a good word to include. Also include a website URL to a page that can't be accessed other than directly. If you get a page hit, then someone has found your package.
[23:35] <Ian_> Someone's package with camera was located after being stolen following landing beside a road. Police recovered camera and package.
[23:35] <Ian_> About a year ago.
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[00:00] --- Thu May 21 2015