highaltitude.log.20150516

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[01:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03dodge neon_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=dodge%20neon_chase
[01:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03dodge neon 2005 red_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=dodge%20neon%202005%20red_chase
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[02:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03red dodge neon 2005 _chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=red%20dodge%20neon%202005%20_chase
[02:04] <daveake> If I had one of those ^ I think I'd keep quiet about it :)
[02:06] <KM4FSW> haha
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[02:31] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI_SKY_PLUS after 0316 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI_SKY_PLUS
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[04:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-11
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[09:00] <Herman_> gm ALL
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[09:01] <KM4FSW> hey Upu: how is the new adsb preamp coming along?
[09:01] <Upu> hey KM4FSW
[09:01] <Upu> just messing with filters as I type this
[09:02] <KM4FSW> awesome well love to play with one too :)
[09:02] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/fC3GPQr.png
[09:02] <Upu> pick one :)
[09:02] <KM4FSW> haha well the blue one i guess ?
[09:03] <Upu> possibly too much gain on that one
[09:03] <Upu> also
[09:03] <Upu> very expensive
[09:03] <KM4FSW> really?
[09:03] <KM4FSW> i've got the other one you sell
[09:03] <KM4FSW> i had to run a seperate power line to it but after that working well, RPi couldn't handle the power on its own
[09:03] <Upu> yeah the filter on that blue one costs twice as much as the entire build on the existing one
[09:04] <Upu> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gm3k85fwlbe93c/2015-04-15%2022.19.27.jpg?dl=0
[09:04] <KM4FSW> really where you getting the filters? if they are made in china let me know
[09:04] <KM4FSW> i've got a guy
[09:04] <Upu> thats a minicircuits one
[09:05] <Upu> about $50 for that filter
[09:05] <KM4FSW> wow
[09:05] <KM4FSW> what is the part num?
[09:05] <Upu> https://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/CBP-1090C+.pdf
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[09:07] <KM4FSW> OK. I found it for 41 dollars... but not much a a savings
[09:07] <Upu> no :)
[09:07] <Upu> I guessed @ $50
[09:07] <Upu> £27
[09:07] <KM4FSW> yeah well i suppose you get what you pay for
[09:07] <Upu> yep
[09:07] <KM4FSW> do you live near a major airport?
[09:07] <Upu> 2
[09:08] <KM4FSW> so how well is it doing in the real world over the older one you sell?
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[09:09] <Upu> my effective range is the radio horizon here no matter whaty combination of reciever/preamp I use
[09:09] <Upu> though preamp does make a difference
[09:09] <Upu> do you want to try one ?
[09:09] <KM4FSW> yes!
[09:10] <Upu> mail me your postal address
[09:10] <KM4FSW> i've been patiently waiting
[09:10] <Upu> got my email ?
[09:10] <KM4FSW> sure.... yes somewhere. I'll look. I want to pay for it of course
[09:10] <Upu> nah its ok
[09:10] <Upu> I need to drill the case so it will be a few days
[09:10] <Upu> and its total prototype
[09:11] <Upu> there is lots more filtering on the power
[09:11] <Upu> and the regulator is ultra low noise
[09:11] <KM4FSW> awesome can't wait to try it out here in HKG. i'll email you in a bit
[09:11] <Upu> like I say there may be too much gain
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[09:13] <KM4FSW> well i'll let you know what improvement over the old model
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[11:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VORTEX1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VORTEX1
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[11:52] <garymortimer> There's a spitfire in a barn near that there Voretx, I can't remember exactly where but I was amazed when I came across it (the flying type)
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[12:10] <Maxell> !payload VORTEX1
[12:10] <SpacenearUS> 03Maxell: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[12:10] <Maxell> !flight VORTEX1
[12:10] <SpacenearUS> 03Maxell: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
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[12:12] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[12:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VORTEX4 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VORTEX4
[12:40] <garymortimer> Is Vortex going to fly this PM?
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[12:44] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KB1YOF-11 after 034 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KB1YOF-11
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[12:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W1YA-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W1YA-11
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[13:08] <Lunar_Lander> I thought about something
[13:08] <Lunar_Lander> when you use an NMEA parser rather than UBX polling, can you get your program sequence run faster?
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[13:09] <Lunar_Lander> it seems like the waiting periods in the polling are some limiting factor during data acquisition
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[13:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AB1QY_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AB1QY_chase
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[13:45] <fsphil> anyone know why this doesn't produce a nice constellation pattern in gnuradio: http://i.imgur.com/rXb7vZj.png
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[14:18] <infaddict> afternoon all
[14:19] kalestew (ad4cddeb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.76.221.235) joined #highaltitude.
[14:20] <kalestew> hello everyone, I am a student in boston and have had the dream of launching a HAB for years now
[14:21] <infaddict> hi kalestew
[14:21] <kalestew> I just received my HAM license and have a cheap Baofeng handheld
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[14:22] <kalestew> I am looking to launch a payload and track it using APRS
[14:23] <kalestew> I am looking at what kind of antenna would be best to receive the 144.39 Mhz signal
[14:23] <kalestew> do I need a pre amp?
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> kalestew: Where are you?
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[14:24] <SpeedEvil> nvm
[14:24] <Herman_> !flights
[14:24] <SpacenearUS> 03Herman_: Current flights: 03SP9UOB - 144.250 MHz (434,500 where ham not allowed) 10(a1e1), 03June Sky Glider 1 10(acdb), 03PS-45 434.650 OLIVIA 8/250 Enable RSID 10(0f94)
[14:26] <kalestew> I am from boston, I am looking to launch somewhere in western Massachusetts
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/scientists-earth-endangered-by-new-strain-of-fact-resistant-humans
[14:30] <SpeedEvil> - never done APRS - sorry
[14:31] <infaddict> Yep I'm the same, not used APRS so can't help. Somebody will be along who can tho!
[14:31] <Ian_> ;)
[14:32] <Ian_> Hi kalestew, me too, but you want an antenna. I guess that it is a base station antenna?
[14:32] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> The aerial won't care about the modulation, so normal 1/4 wave ground plane.
[14:32] <kalestew> no worries, I can handle most of the APRS but I am a bit worried about the ground station antenna. you have any advice for a 144 Mhz RX antenna?
[14:32] <Ian_> I belive that a Colinear is your best bet. this is UK based, but will give you some clues http://pastebin.com/XjNg3z04
[14:33] <daveake> For a chase car, one of these http://wsplc.com/antennas-tuners/vhf-uhf-antennas/vhf-uhf-mobile-antennas/watson-mobile-antennas/wgm-270-watson-2m-70cm-on-glass-antenna.html
[14:33] <daveake> For a base station, a W-30 or similar
[14:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Yes for RX then a colinear is easiest get a dual band 2m & 70cms
[14:33] <kalestew> sweet, i will take a look at those!
[14:34] <infaddict> guys i'm thinking of a set of these for neck lift check on launch days (dont have access to water which would be easier). should be able to get close to most values i need: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kitchen-Craft-Natural-Elements-Traditional/dp/B002DUZ2MQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1431786636&sr=8-2&keywords=kitchen+weights
[14:34] <kalestew> I will be back with updates on the project! Thanks for your help!
[14:34] <infaddict> anybody ever used anything similar or is there better way?
[14:34] <Ian_> You pay for the extra gain and the size increases, but you get to match your needs, availability and wallet to find your ideal deal
[14:34] <daveake> er, just take a milk container full of water
[14:34] <daveake> and some cheap kitchen scales
[14:35] <daveake> empty water till you get the weight right
[14:35] <daveake> If you overshoot, improvise ....
[14:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KJ6TLZ-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ6TLZ-1
[14:35] <infaddict> mmm i was envisaging problems with 1) scales not being accurate nor flat or level in a field... 2) overshoot
[14:35] <infaddict> or is it normal to do the water bit before you set off?
[14:36] <Ian_> Ahhhhhh! improvised
[14:36] <daveake> Well yes you can calculate everything beforehand and fill your container in advance
[14:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9ZMJ-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9ZMJ-11
[14:37] <infaddict> ok thx daveake. also looking at fill tubes and the like. is something like this still the norm for latex: https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:fill_tube
[14:37] <daveake> Also worth labelling the container with marks for every 100g, say
[14:37] <daveake> yes
[14:37] <infaddict> ok great i will make one
[14:39] <infaddict> not sure what connection the helium cannisters have nowadays. i found this in the garage, not sure what it is or if any use haha: http://imgur.com/q4Bdm0L
[14:42] <mfa298> you could also get a 10L water container (or a set of 2L coke* bottles) to take extra water (and double up as a drinking supply)
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[14:43] <mfa298> * other soft drinks are also available and just as tasty
[14:44] <infaddict> thx mfa298. so my last question of today is... any recommendations for helium cannister supply/rent in the Oxford area?
[14:44] <craag> I use http://balloonhelium.co.uk/
[14:45] <craag> You can then collect from your local depot
[14:45] Action: SpeedEvil imagines the Jungle Book interpretiation of that URL
[14:45] <infaddict> cool - do u use disposable or hired?
[14:45] <Lunar_Lander> hi craag
[14:45] <craag> both
[14:45] <craag> but hired for latex
[14:45] <infaddict> ok i will check out how much is in each option
[14:46] <infaddict> do you need any valve convertors or do the hired ones have something to fit to hose?
[14:46] <craag> infaddict: http://balloonhelium.co.uk/main/pricing
[14:46] <craag> ^^ Lists the volumes of the cylinders
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[14:46] <craag> But be aware you won't get 100% of it out
[14:47] <infaddict> the calc page says i need 3.23m^3
[14:47] <infaddict> so would have to be medium i guess
[14:47] <craag> yep :)
[14:47] <infaddict> gives just enough spare
[14:47] <infaddict> so around £100 if I collect
[14:47] <infaddict> thx a lot! bookmarked these links
[14:48] <daveake> Also click4balloons.co.uk
[14:48] <daveake> They supply AP cylinders which are lighter
[14:49] <infaddict> thx daveake
[14:49] <craag> and 3 month rental, nice :)
[14:49] <daveake> Yes indeedy
[14:49] <daveake> Mine has to go back next Saturday
[14:49] <daveake> and it's still half full
[14:50] <daveake> so if anyone wants to steal and return it for me :p
[14:51] <daveake> I ordered a medium and got given a large :p
[14:51] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[14:51] <Ian_> Can't be all bad if you have a vehicle that will carry the larger size easily enough - bonus
[14:52] <daveake> When I pointed this out, the guy said "well this is what I signed out, and I don't want to have to drag it back"
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:52] <daveake> They're smaller than the BOC cylinders and should fit inside most cars
[14:52] Action: SpeedEvil wonders about improvised helium storage.
[14:53] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[14:53] <Lunar_Lander> I read that people use weather balloons as some sort of gas tank
[14:53] <Lunar_Lander> somewhere
[14:53] <SpeedEvil> I guess 50*2l coke-bottles would store ~1m^3.
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> And cost ~10 quid
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> that's 100 L
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> Not at 1 bar
[14:54] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[14:55] <Lunar_Lander> do you think the bottles can be overpressurized to 10 bar?
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> Well - 10 may be borderline
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> 5 is safe
[14:55] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[14:56] <craag> Afternoon Lunar_Lander
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[15:30] <michemto> hi
[15:30] <michemto> Me back... with new problems..
[15:31] <michemto> Anyway... I figured out one thing... if I connect my raspberry pi camera to Pi while using PITS then I wont be able to decode this signal any longer...
[15:31] <michemto> If I remove camera, everthing works like charm @ 300 baud rate, 440 custom shift
[15:31] <michemto> But with camera attached i won
[15:33] <daveake> 440 is wrong set it to 600
[15:33] <daveake> and when you say "wont be able to decode", do you understand that the image data will look like garbage on the screen?
[15:34] <daveake> You need to select View --> SSDV in dl-fldigi so you can see the image
[15:36] SA6BSS-Mike (kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) left #highaltitude ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is").
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[15:41] <michemto> Yeah Dave I understand it clearly :)
[15:41] <michemto> There are also some other weird things...
[15:42] <michemto> I have set frequency to 434.075 but i can get data at 434.656
[15:44] <michemto> CF--K7 image 12... Where can I change this name...
[15:44] <michemto> CF--K7 aint payload name :)
[15:46] <daveake> Payload ID should be <= 6 characters for SSDV
[15:51] <dbrooke> infaddict: this appears to be the way to check neck lift http://album.dbrooke.me.uk/AH3/P1010869.JPG
[15:52] <daveake> Curiously, this is actually documented: http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/index.php?id=configuration "payload – This is the name of the flight, as shown on the live map. Keep it to no more than 6 characters if you are going to transmit images"
[15:53] <daveake> Though given some of the recent support emails I'm not sure why we bothered documenting anything
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[15:58] <daveake> dbrooke Steve appears to be measuring his own neck lift :p
[16:00] <edmoore> is steveTV on?
[16:00] <michemto> Where to?
[16:01] <Laurenceb_> lol steveTV
[16:01] <Laurenceb_> sounds like an alternative to Dave
[16:02] <Ian_> I had noticed that phenomena [16:52] daveake, soul destroying. I guess that some think it should be like stuffing geese with corn - pass the funnel.
[16:03] <daveake> When a customer sends a screenshot, taken by a camera, that happens to be upside down, I do wonder if they're taking the piss
[16:04] <daveake> edmoore It was a reference to this posted shortly before you joined http://album.dbrooke.me.uk/AH3/P1010869.JPG
[16:06] <dbrooke> daveake: maybe they're in the Southern hemisphere ?
[16:08] <edmoore> who would deal with muggles for a living
[16:23] <Laurenceb_> http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jcse/2013/657182/
[16:25] <edmoore> there's a lot of money available if you can make a 1U propulsion block which can add about 50m/s delta v (total) to a 3U cubesat
[16:28] <Laurenceb_> heh 50m/s
[16:29] <CHarlie_> Yeah I did some experiments with magentic torques a couple of years ago
[16:29] <CHarlie_> reaction wheels in a cubesat are more of a pain to make
[16:30] <CHarlie_> Have you seen the CAT thruster for cubesats?
[16:32] <CHarlie_> Furthermore, I didnt realise NASA offers free cubesat launched 8o
[16:33] <craag> The ESA also offers free launches to universities sometimes
[16:34] <craag> Our uni is hoping for one in Q4 2016
[16:34] <edmoore> suspect if you attach an hourly rate to doing the compliance paperwork it'll be far from free
[16:35] <craag> Very true
[16:36] <Lunar_Lander> a launch slot on a Vega?
[16:37] <CHarlie_> lol trye
[16:37] <CHarlie_> yeah
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[16:37] <Lunar_Lander> CAT thruster?
[16:38] <edmoore> i know the chap who brokers a large proportion (probably most?) of the smallsat launches on old russian rockets for people like surrey sats and other smallsat people you've heard of
[16:38] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:38] <Lunar_Lander> Dnepr flights
[16:38] <CHarlie_> nice one ed
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[16:39] <edmoore> one of his big frustrations is when potential customers come and say 'well this rocket takes 5 tonnes for XX million which works out at $20k/kg and my cubesat is 1kg so i only want to pay $20k'
[16:39] <CHarlie_> http://pepl.engin.umich.edu/thrusters/CAT.html
[16:39] <CHarlie_> yeah that would be annoying
[16:39] <edmoore> and he has to explain that you can't even get the thing signed off regardless of its mass for less than about 100k
[16:39] <CHarlie_> great if the price got down that low though
[16:39] <edmoore> there's a fixed cost of several hundred k before you even discuss the weight
[16:40] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[16:40] <edmoore> unless you have a space agency on your side trying to account that all away as i assume some of the esa and nasa schemes do
[16:40] <CHarlie_> they have to do deal with insurance aswell? incase a cubsat messes up the main sat or something?
[16:40] <edmoore> yep they have to deal with all of that
[16:40] <edmoore> and it's all expensive and complicated
[16:41] <edmoore> at work for a bit of fun we came up with a concept to go to the moon from LEo with a 3U cubesat
[16:41] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[16:41] <Lunar_Lander> like smart-1?
[16:41] <edmoore> we asked him if it would be a headache to have nitrogen tetroxide and hydrazine tanks on a cubesat payload
[16:41] <edmoore> he just laughed
[16:41] <CHarlie_> well apprently that CAT thruster could take a 3U to any planet in the solar system
[16:41] <CHarlie_> I believe the CAT works from water
[16:41] <CHarlie_> LOL
[16:43] <edmoore> ah yes but it's take a while
[16:43] <edmoore> those things have good isp but rubbish thrust
[16:43] <edmoore> good for deep space exploration
[16:43] <edmoore> a bit boring to go to the moon
[16:43] <edmoore> you'd spend weeks and weeks in radiation belts
[16:43] <CHarlie_> meh i think just going to the moon would be epic D:
[16:43] <edmoore> i was thinking of just Leroy-Jenkinsing straight into lunar injection
[16:43] <CHarlie_> that sounds cool
[16:44] <CHarlie_> now, orbital physics isnt my thing but...
[16:45] <Laurenceb_> so is propellants on cubesats a significant overhead in terms of paperwork?
[16:45] <edmoore> yes
[16:45] <Laurenceb_> I see
[16:45] <edmoore> well if they're hypergolic
[16:45] <CHarlie_> could you not have two sats, connected by a wire, have one rotate rapidly, so the second is held taught, and then at the right moment detach and 'lob it' away?
[16:45] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[16:46] <edmoore> it's a large additional overhead from a paperwork pov, and a large additional overhead in upper stage integration
[16:46] <edmoore> CHarlie_, you could
[16:46] <edmoore> but where does it get it's rotational energy from?
[16:46] <edmoore> and why not use that energy sauce just to thrust conventionally?
[16:46] <CHarlie_> magnetic torque
[16:46] <CHarlie_> have three coils, work against earths magnetic field
[16:47] <edmoore> i see
[16:48] <CHarlie_> if you run out of power, wouldnt it maintain most energy until you could recharge again?
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> I was working on a spin stabilised pocketqub with two magnotorquers
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> for picoballoon link
[16:48] <edmoore> i guess it would keep spinning yes
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> working on simulation :P
[16:48] <CHarlie_> idk at all, feel free to say thats a terrible idea Xd
[16:48] <edmoore> i guess you can only rotate about the field line axis
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> TMP006 sensor to keep it earth facing
[16:48] <edmoore> which might be limiting?
[16:49] <edmoore> your reaction mass is limited to 50% of the totaly mass
[16:49] <Laurenceb_> not true if its spinning
[16:49] <Laurenceb_> you can use precession effects to get two axis pointing
[16:49] <edmoore> to keep this spinning thing balances
[16:49] <edmoore> one half (the sat half) shoots off one way and the other half shoots off the other way
[16:49] <edmoore> just as a lost reaction mass
[16:49] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[16:49] <edmoore> your tangential velocity would probably have to be enormous to make that more worthwhile than chemical propulsion
[16:49] <edmoore> let's spit-ball this
[16:50] <Laurenceb_> yeah tether materials can give km/s velocities
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[16:50] <Laurenceb_> combine with a small motor...
[16:50] <edmoore> 50% mass fraction with a decent storeable propellant combo
[16:50] <Laurenceb_> in fact - a deployable tether with small reaction mass
[16:50] <edmoore> say mon/hydrazine which has a specific impulse of about 230s in a vacuum
[16:51] <CHarlie_> :D
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tether#Practical_materials
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> zylon is 3km/s
[16:52] <Laurenceb_> but not all the mass is at that velocity
[16:52] <Laurenceb_> for untapered you could have to halve it
[16:52] <Laurenceb_> so ~160s ISP
[16:52] <edmoore> yeah
[16:52] <edmoore> so 230*g*logn(2) is about 1500m/s
[16:53] <Laurenceb_> unless you have a clever design
[16:53] <Laurenceb_> small masses on the end that fly off
[16:53] <Laurenceb_> then tether is wound back up and another mass attaches
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[16:55] <CHarlie_> At least it is somewhat easier to actually get into orbit. :P
[16:55] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[16:55] <Laurenceb_> you could easily get 3km/s with a 1m long tether
[16:55] <Laurenceb_> suprising
[16:55] <Laurenceb_> - and off the shelf brushless motor
[16:55] <edmoore> well the forces on your cube would be absurd
[16:56] <edmoore> don't think it's easy at all
[16:56] <Laurenceb_> not necessarily
[16:56] <Laurenceb_> you could decouple the motor and use it as reaction mass
[16:56] <Laurenceb_> i.e. vibration isolation
[16:57] <CHarlie_> you guys are mentally smart
[16:57] <CHarlie_> where do you learn all this?
[16:57] <Laurenceb_> heh
[16:59] <CHarlie_> physics degrees? :P
[16:59] <edmoore> engineering
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[16:59] <edmoore> but basically start with maths
[17:00] <edmoore> makes everything much easier
[17:00] <edmoore> if you can do differential equations then you can design circuits as easily as you can design car suspension because the underlying principles are the same.
[17:01] <edmoore> (also I work in rocket propulsion research so this isn't that off-topic for me)
[17:01] <edmoore> ((although i just do chemical propulsion rather than weird exotics))
[17:01] <CHarlie_> oh wow
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[17:02] <CHarlie_> I had my last maths lecture ever last friday :P
[17:03] <edmoore> tragic
[17:03] <edmoore> you forget a lot after graduating
[17:03] <edmoore> i wish i hadn't
[17:04] <CHarlie_> vector calc and statistics ;-;
[17:05] <edmoore> both super useful
[17:05] <CHarlie_> hmmm
[17:06] <CHarlie_> I might agree after the exam
[17:06] <edmoore> yes i sympathise
[17:06] <edmoore> i only really started enjoying all this properly after exams
[17:06] <CHarlie_> But yeah that CAT thruster is oneplace I see plasma antennas being useful
[17:06] <edmoore> i hated thermodynamics as a ugrad
[17:06] <edmoore> now it's my bread-and-butter
[17:06] <CHarlie_> Which is what I get to look forward too in the summer
[17:07] <CHarlie_> I got a book on thermodynamics from the library over easter
[17:07] <CHarlie_> Dont remember any of it :P
[17:07] <edmoore> :)
[17:08] <Laurenceb_> I will have to read about this CAT stuff
[17:08] <edmoore> well it never really went in when exam questions were about where condensation might happen in an air conditioner
[17:08] <edmoore> but rocketry made it fun
[17:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9PON-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9PON-11
[17:09] <CHarlie_> yeah
[17:12] <edmoore> do you know what you might want to do after graduating?
[17:13] <CHarlie_> Join the RAF
[17:13] <CHarlie_> Failing that, the army
[17:13] <CHarlie_> Failing that PhD
[17:14] <edmoore> i know a few people who'd joined the RAF after an engineering degree
[17:15] <CHarlie_> My understanding is they are deperate for engineers
[17:18] <CHarlie_> Where abouts in the country is your company ed?
[17:18] <edmoore> oxford
[17:18] <CHarlie_> ah cool
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> ok I might have an idea: think how a strimmer works
[17:19] <Laurenceb_> http://www.abbeygardensales.co.uk/webupload/ABBEYGAR/CUSTOM/MOUNTFIELD/LARGE/gp-231550000.jpg
[17:20] <CHarlie_> yep
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> then a trimming blade
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> which might get ablated...
[17:20] <CHarlie_> yeah
[17:21] <CHarlie_> are you thinking of lobbing a trimming blade at the moon? O.o
[17:24] <edmoore> i have not being sure your meter is trustworthy
[17:24] <edmoore> i only have a dodge old multimeter to hand here
[17:24] <edmoore> like being blindfolded
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[17:27] <CHarlie_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm-V5dccq8 go to 2:50
[17:27] <CHarlie_> make the small mass your object to be launched
[17:28] <CHarlie_> bbl dinner
[17:28] <edmoore> oh fun
[17:30] <CHarlie_> or maybe not, the queue is huge
[17:31] <edmoore> lol
[17:31] <edmoore> so you still need much higher rotation speeds than that
[17:31] <edmoore> e.g. to go to the moon from low earth orbit you need to increase your speed by about 3km/s
[17:31] <CHarlie_> yeah
[17:32] <edmoore> so that would be a hell of a spinning thingamabob to get that kind of tangential velocity before cutting the tether
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[17:34] <CHarlie_> longer tether?
[17:35] <edmoore> i guess
[17:36] <CHarlie_> hmm well a 10m tether would require like 45rps I think
[17:36] <Laurenceb_> yeah the speed is doable
[17:36] <Laurenceb_> other aspects are tricky
[17:37] <mattbrejza> you would have to detach at exactly the right time?
[17:38] <CHarlie_> yeah
[17:38] <mattbrejza> as persumably you wouldnt be able to correct as the whole idea is to avoid having conventional thrusters?
[17:38] <CHarlie_> problem is trying to even get conventional thrusters into orbit in a cubesat in the first place
[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> hmm
[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> on the line I use for commuting the train crashed with a tractor trailer that detached on a level crossing
[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[17:42] <edmoore> leaving a trailer of destruction
[17:42] <CHarlie_> eek
[17:42] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/niedersachsen/osnabrueck_emsland/Zwei-Menschen-sterben-bei-schwerem-Zugunglueck,zugunglueck302.html
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[17:50] <CHarlie_> Well i've got a presentation topic sorted for my last exam
[17:50] <CHarlie_> "Living Beyond Earth: The Reasoning and Engineering for Venus"
[17:51] <Lunar_Lander> interesting
[17:53] <CHarlie_> imo Venus is a much better choice than Mars
[17:53] <Lunar_Lander> why exactly?
[17:54] <CHarlie_> 1) a lot closer
[17:54] <CHarlie_> 2) If you live in the atmosphere, you wouldn't need a spacesuit, as at altitude the pressure on Venus is similar to Earth
[17:55] <CHarlie_> 3) You would need protection from the heat and sulphuric acid, but much easier than a full spacesuit you would need for mars
[17:55] <CHarlie_> Alot closer to the sun too, so you'd get better returns from solar energy
[17:56] <CHarlie_> I need to restart my pc bbs
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[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> what about the 96.5% CO2?
[17:56] <Lunar_Lander> ah well
[18:02] <baird> Venus' atmosphere would have very high concentrations of oxygen radicals, too?
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[18:04] <Charlie> am back :P
[18:04] Nick change: Charlie -> Guest94902
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[18:05] <Lunar_Lander> wb
[18:06] <Charlie_> thanks
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[18:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KJ4TDM-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ4TDM-1
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[18:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Kc9pon-11_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Kc9pon-11_chase
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[18:57] <Charlie_> Anyone know what June Sky Glider is?
[18:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N4XWC-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
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[19:02] <jet_> I was just wondering, do any of you guys know roughly how much 3G data a HAB launch and chase will require?
[19:03] <jet_> I am looking to get a 3g dongle for the launch and I was wondering how much I should prepay it with.
[19:03] <edmoore> what are you streaming over 3G?
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[19:04] <jet_> The habhub tracker site, dl-fldgi, and the IRC
[19:04] <edmoore> i gig should do it really
[19:04] <edmoore> a gig*
[19:04] <edmoore> i'm assuming that's the smallest amount you can buy
[19:05] <jet_> Yes
[19:05] <jet_> OK.. thanks.
[19:05] <Charlie_> Yeah I've managed easily with 1gig
[19:07] <jet_> Thanks very much
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[19:07] <edmoore> this is a pleasing den https://www.flickr.com/photos/124211342@N06/14290581524/
[19:07] <Charlie_> ed did I ask you about programming ARMs yesterday?
[19:07] <edmoore> don't believe so
[19:08] <edmoore> but i do program arms so try me if you want
[19:08] <Charlie_> Ok
[19:08] <Charlie_> So for the sake of quickly launching some picoballoons, I thought I'd copy this tracker http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/pico-tracker/
[19:09] <edmoore> right
[19:09] <Charlie_> However I've never programmed an ARM before - whilst they suggest that black magic programmer, you can only import it and it is a bit pricey. Can you suggest anything that might be a bit more readily available in the UK?
[19:10] <edmoore> i own three black magic debug probes
[19:10] <edmoore> for what it's worth
[19:10] <edmoore> because they are good and really save faffing with openOCD
[19:10] <edmoore> however there are alternatives like the olix arm jtag debugger
[19:10] <edmoore> olimex*
[19:10] <Charlie_> How long did it take you to recieve them?
[19:10] <edmoore> couple of weeks?
[19:10] <edmoore> if that
[19:10] <edmoore> don't really remember
[19:10] <Charlie_> Was that from NZ?
[19:10] <edmoore> yep
[19:11] <Charlie_> okay in that case I'll just go for one of those.
[19:11] <edmoore> yeah
[19:11] <Charlie_> And what IDE?
[19:11] <edmoore> it'll save you a lot of annoying setup
[19:11] <edmoore> vim
[19:11] <edmoore> .... i'm not the person to ask about IDEs
[19:11] <edmoore> there are a bazillion tutorials online tho about setting up a gnu-arm toolchain with eclipse though
[19:12] <Charlie_> I've had to use CodeBlocks and MPLAB (legacy) so just about anything is better than those :P
[19:12] <edmoore> this is a gnu toolchain you want https://launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded
[19:12] <edmoore> eclipse probably is the thing to go for then
[19:13] <Charlie_> ok
[19:13] <Charlie_> thanks
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[19:15] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[19:20] <edmoore> shout if you need any help tracking down components
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[19:28] <Charlie_> thanks ed
[19:28] <Charlie_> will have a quick look now, and then pop down to the music rooms
[19:28] <Charlie_> I don't suppose you have Eagle?
[19:30] <edmoore> do you music?
[19:30] <edmoore> i do have eagle
[19:31] <Charlie_> Would you be able to convert the schematic to a jpg, as my desktop cant be turned on atm (not enough plugs in my room) :|
[19:31] <edmoore> sure!
[19:32] <Charlie_> Thanks so much https://github.com/bristol-seds/pico-tracker/tree/master/hardware
[19:32] <Charlie_> :)
[19:32] <edmoore> which one?
[19:34] <edmoore> Charlie_, ^
[19:34] <richardeoin> you'll want bristol_longshot.sch
[19:34] <Charlie_> Sorry, just trying to figure out
[19:34] <Charlie_> Ah thanks Richard
[19:35] <richardeoin> I should put .pdfs in there too
[19:35] <richardeoin> pity there's no automated way of getting eagle to generate them
[19:35] <Charlie_> This is your project Richard?
[19:36] <Charlie_> Props for being the only source (I have found at least) to properly document your stuff.
[19:37] <richardeoin> It's a society project, but I've done all the electronics so it's essentially mine
[19:37] <richardeoin> I'm not sure it's 'properly' documented
[19:37] <richardeoin> there's some documentation
[19:38] <Charlie_> Closest I've seen ;)
[19:38] <Charlie_> Better than four green pixels on a png :P
[19:38] <edmoore> Charlie_, http://i.imgur.com/ELnC2FI.png
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[19:39] <richardeoin> If you bug me I might finish writing that page on the website
[19:39] <Charlie_> Thanks very much ed!
[19:39] <Charlie_> Yes, please do
[19:39] <Charlie_> What made you choose the ARM?
[19:39] <richardeoin> I started it on a late night train iirc, it's rather bad
[19:40] <edmoore> many a blues song has started on a late night train
[19:40] <edmoore> Charlie_, arm is a lovely core
[19:41] <edmoore> (family of cores)
[19:41] <Charlie_> @Richard, its better than my website - done all in html, and I accidently deleted half of it :p
[19:41] <Charlie_> Ed, I like pics
[19:41] <Charlie_> Never got on with them until uni, but have since found them to be quite nice.
[19:41] <edmoore> nobody's perfect
[19:42] <Charlie_> Never even touched an ARM
[19:42] <Charlie_> LOL
[19:42] <richardeoin> Lowest power consumption, full 32 bit processor, great toolchain, the peripherals on the sam d are really configurable
[19:42] <Charlie_> pics are cool B)
[19:42] <Charlie_> idk, microchip has some low power stuff now
[19:42] <Charlie_> Like 22nA in sleep
[19:43] <Charlie_> 32 processor is nice though
[19:43] <richardeoin> I started on pics if that makes you feel better. Never got past the 18F things though
[19:43] <richardeoin> I heard they've improved since
[19:43] <Charlie_> Started with 18F asm at my first uni, then 24H at Notts
[19:43] <edmoore> i have done some pic stuff too
[19:43] <Charlie_> asm was fun, but C just made things a breeze
[19:44] <edmoore> i am rude about them because i am a (microprocessor) generation older than you both
[19:44] <edmoore> being 28
[19:44] <edmoore> i had pic16s
[19:44] <edmoore> with their 8-level deep hardware stack that made me want to punch someone
[19:44] <Charlie_> LOL
[19:44] <edmoore> i hear the new stuff is nice
[19:44] <richardeoin> There was a HC08 asm project in my degree course, was really looking forward to it
[19:44] <edmoore> but i have arm now so
[19:45] <Charlie_> I love showing comp scientists my free use of global variables XD
[19:45] <edmoore> yeah they don't like embedded generally
[19:45] <Charlie_> I started with HCS08
[19:45] <Charlie_> learnt some really good stuff in my computing C++ module though
[19:46] <edmoore> our uni course was a 6800 i think
[19:46] <edmoore> there was a hex numberpad which is how you programmed it
[19:46] <edmoore> after a long period of pencil and paper to write the code and then translate it into hex
[19:46] <richardeoin> they scrapped the module for some silly lpc17xx project
[19:46] <richardeoin> that sounds wonderful ed
[19:47] <edmoore> it was
[19:47] <richardeoin> you were a true programmer back then
[19:47] <edmoore> i still like assembly
[19:47] <Charlie_> Reminds me of the old PDP computers that does
[19:47] <edmoore> i might do an -m0+ flight computer is assembly to keep it sharp
[19:47] <edmoore> thumb is a useful thing to know
[19:47] <edmoore> especially with reverse-engineering other bits of electronics
[19:48] <Charlie_> yeah
[19:48] <Charlie_> I was working on reverse engineering the gameboy advance communication protocol
[19:48] <Charlie_> So players could connect over the internet to play
[19:48] <Charlie_> But the uni internet is all sorts of messed up and so I gave up
[19:49] <edmoore> have you a logic analyser?
[19:49] <Charlie_> yep
[19:49] <Charlie_> Fixed it from ebay
[19:50] <edmoore> nice
[19:50] <edmoore> which one?
[19:50] <Charlie_> german ebay is literally the best source for test equipment
[19:50] <edmoore> or israel if you don't mind bullet holes in it
[19:51] <Charlie_> yeah XD
[19:51] <edmoore> yeah there is not enough in the uk
[19:51] <edmoore> i'm keeping an eye out for a vector signal generator at the moment
[19:51] <Charlie_> 1650B if i remember correctly
[19:51] <edmoore> ideally a fixie uppy too
[19:52] <Charlie_> good luck finding one of those lol
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[19:52] <edmoore> well there are a few
[19:52] <edmoore> but all a bit more than i want to pay
[19:53] <Charlie_> best one on ebay is £800 atm
[19:53] <edmoore> linky
[19:53] <Charlie_> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROHDE-SCHWARZ-SMIQ-02B-vector-signal-generator-with-options-/161701136262?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item25a6238786
[19:54] <edmoore> oh seen it
[19:54] <edmoore> max freq not enough
[19:54] <Charlie_> ah
[19:54] <edmoore> i want >= 4GHz really
[19:55] <edmoore> something like an agilent 4433b
[19:55] <Charlie_> Keysight now :|
[19:55] <Charlie_> annoying they keep changing name
[19:55] <edmoore> yes but if it's keysight branded it'll be too new for me to afford :)
[19:56] <Charlie_> lol true
[19:56] <richardeoin> btw Charlie_ if you want other trackers to steal ideas from, try https://github.com/thasti/utrak and https://github.com/DL7AD/pecan_femto
[19:56] <Charlie_> thanks richard i will look at those a little later!
[19:57] <DL7AD> richardeoin Charlie_: femto has some minor errors..... i will look for them if you want.
[19:57] <Charlie_> thanks
[19:57] <Charlie_> DL7AD
[19:58] <DL7AD> i already wrote them down: https://github.com/DL7AD/pecan_femto/blob/master/femto1/revision3/femto1_rev3_description.txt
[19:58] <Charlie_> check out what my uni has lying on its roof http://picpaste.com/pics/DSC_0101_zpse58c3f67-RoQJYDaw.1431806268.JPG
[19:58] <Charlie_> Oh awesome, I'll bookmark that page too!
[19:58] <richardeoin> and the bristol seds tracker has minor error too
[19:59] <Charlie_> hardware or firm?
[20:00] <edmoore> http://www.keysight.com/en/pd-1000002824%3Aepsg%3Apro-pn-E4433B/esg-d-series-digital-rf-signal-generator-4-ghz?cc=US&lc=eng
[20:00] <richardeoin> err hardware - you can't debug it with the watchdog in place
[20:00] <edmoore> this'n
[20:00] <edmoore> if you see one of them on your travels...
[20:00] <richardeoin> and the tcxo isn't connected to the arm correctly
[20:00] <Charlie_> ed, I'll let you know ;)
[20:01] <richardeoin> ah we can all play the "my uni has a dish" game Charlie_ http://www.grazebrookarchitects.co.uk/images/Projects/bristol-university-physics-building-roof-renovation.jpg
[20:01] <Charlie_> Ill check those out richard
[20:01] <Charlie_> ok now im jealous :P
[20:01] <Charlie_> Apparently it has been there for like 40 years
[20:01] <Charlie_> no ones used it in that time
[20:01] <Charlie_> Im tempted to ask if I can see if it can be dismantled I have it :P
[20:01] <edmoore> my uni has http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/MERLIN_dish,_Mullard_Radio_Astronomy_Observatory_-_geograph.org.uk_-_896227.jpg
[20:01] <edmoore> so ner
[20:01] <richardeoin> haha ours gets used most days
[20:02] <richardeoin> *checks out window*
[20:02] <Charlie_> LOL
[20:02] <richardeoin> not being used at the moment
[20:02] <Charlie_> I toyed with making a Hydrogen line reciever at one point
[20:02] <richardeoin> I won't bother with a blurry photo, it's nearly 2km away
[20:02] <Charlie_> Thought it would be cool to map the galaxy
[20:02] <edmoore> we actually got offered this for CUSF if we could put togther a realistic plan to refurbish it http://c8.alamy.com/comp/EFKABP/one-antenna-of-the-one-mile-telescope-at-mullard-radio-astronomy-observatory-EFKABP.jpg
[20:03] <Charlie_> Whats CUSF?
[20:03] <edmoore> 25m
[20:03] <edmoore> cambridge university spaceflight
[20:03] <richardeoin> I think you win ed ;)
[20:03] <Charlie_> Did you accept?
[20:04] <edmoore> no
[20:04] <edmoore> would have been a serious project
[20:04] <edmoore> not ideal for transient undergrads
[20:04] <Charlie_> ah :(
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[20:04] <edmoore> it was a bit ropey mechanically
[20:04] <richardeoin> exeter uni students are doing their hydrogen line receiver http://www.xrt-s.co.uk/
[20:04] <edmoore> and the electronics were all valved
[20:04] <Charlie_> I could se myself spending all my free time there
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[20:05] <edmoore> but we probably could have got 1080p down from a hab with 10mW
[20:05] <richardeoin> they need help digging a hole in about two weeks
[20:05] <richardeoin> if anyone down cornwall / devon way fancies some manual labour
[20:06] <Charlie_> yeah ed - or be able to listen to cubesat from Mars
[20:06] <Charlie_> I wish rich
[20:06] <Charlie_> Give me a couple of years to get settled in the RAF and I'll propose offering some help as part of a 'community outreach' program or something :P
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[20:07] <edmoore> nom http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AGILENT-Keysight-E4433A-4GHz-Digital-I-Q-Sig-Gen-D4000A-/151480115792?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2344eb2250
[20:07] <Charlie_> Shame Ed, would've been interesting to do if it were more manageable
[20:08] <edmoore> yes
[20:08] <edmoore> it would be a really fun project
[20:08] <edmoore> i really need to temper my test equipment habit
[20:08] <Charlie_> I wonder if you could do something with a massive array
[20:08] <Charlie_> I know that feeling
[20:09] <Charlie_> I got a 10KV 10mA supply the other month - I used the excuse I needed if for research lol
[20:09] <edmoore> i have never really done much HV stuff
[20:10] <Charlie_> Ended up getting it from a prof from Leicester I think - he was using it to generate plasma to help in crime scenes.
[20:10] <richardeoin> you need to build a spark chamber Charlie_
[20:10] <edmoore> helped an audiophile friend fix his valve amp (against my better judgement) which needed a 300v supply
[20:10] <edmoore> that was about it
[20:10] <Charlie_> richard that is actually an insane idea
[20:11] <Charlie_> 300V is nice
[20:11] <Charlie_> :D
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[20:11] <Charlie_> I wonder if the spark chamber idea would make a better final year project...
[20:13] <Charlie_> I would really like to make something worthwhile...
[20:13] <edmoore> make a pressure altimeter
[20:13] <edmoore> for hab
[20:13] <edmoore> 1m resolution at 40km
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[20:13] <Charlie_> my uni doesnt really do anything with semiconductor manufacturing
[20:13] <edmoore> nowt to do with that
[20:14] <edmoore> buy a bridge pressure sensor off the shelf and then make a front end that can digitise its output without messing up
[20:14] <Laurenceb_> how would you make such a device?
[20:14] <Charlie_> Whats a pressure altimeter then?
[20:14] <edmoore> which is no small challenge
[20:14] <Charlie_> urgh digital :P
[20:15] <edmoore> so something that can measure 1m height change at 40km (5e-2 Pa), but also measure absolute sea level pressure (1e5Pa) needs about 21 bits
[20:15] <richardeoin> here's a spark chamber we did at school https://twitter.com/richardeoin/status/378232219212345344
[20:15] <edmoore> to amplify and digitise a signal to 21 bits accuracy with <1LSB noise and non-linearity will be a hair-on-your-chest bit of analogue design
[20:15] <richardeoin> the amplifier was relatively non-trivial, but was mostly a mechanical design/build project
[20:16] <Charlie_> hmmm yeah
[20:17] <Charlie_> Spark chamber sounds cool
[20:18] <Charlie_> I wonder if you could make one light enough to put on a balloon>
[20:18] <Charlie_> Say, under 3kg...
[20:20] <richardeoin> this is partly how bristol got a bunch of Nobel prizes back in the '50s http://www.aip.org/history/newsletter/fall2004/bristol-photo.htm
[20:21] <edmoore> you could fly it above a storm and detect the upwards jets
[20:21] <richardeoin> that turret now hosts a bunch of microwave relays for the bbc, so no more balloons
[20:21] <Charlie_> I was born about 80 years too late for my Nobel, darn :P
[20:22] <Lunar_Lander> richardeoin, cool!
[20:22] <Charlie_> Yeah, OUt tower building has a bunch for police radios, so you are screwed if you touch one
[20:23] <richardeoin> detecting upward jets sounds like it could be useful, just reading up on them ed
[20:24] <edmoore> sprite detection
[20:24] <edmoore> i wondered about this on a hab
[20:24] <edmoore> a trapezoid of detectors with accuract timing
[20:24] <edmoore> from which you could get a vector from when the shower came
[20:24] <Charlie_> yeah
[20:25] <edmoore> you might see the sprite come up then then shower come back down
[20:26] <richardeoin> how would you build a detector?
[20:27] <edmoore> nick_ ^
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: Or you buy an off-the-shelf 21 bit ADC
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> with integral signal conditioning
[20:30] <edmoore> link me something suitable for a bridge sensor
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[20:34] <Laurenceb_> linear tech do a range of suitable stuff
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> I've never been able to make it meet datasheet spec :-/
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> edmoore: http://www.ti.com/product/ADS1220
[20:35] <edmoore> that was where i was heading
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> (It's not actually 24 bits of noise-free resolution)
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> But is quite a neat part
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> +-16mv full scale range
[20:38] <Laurenceb_> 18.5ENOB at 20sps, 128x gain
[20:40] <Charlie_> Ok, Ill bbl
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[20:40] <Charlie_> Still thinking about final year projects LOL
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> I like tha ball bearing pressure guage.
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> You levitate a ball bearing magnetically, spin it up to ~100m/s surface speed, and then let it coast down
[20:43] <edmoore> yeah so 18.5ENOB is quite far short
[20:43] <edmoore> of what you need
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> fitting parts into SLS build volumes is possibly the most unfun job ever :-/
[20:43] <edmoore> the INL is too big
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[20:47] <edmoore> just the gain drift with temperature is way high
[20:47] <edmoore> it really is hard to make something robustly get 21bits of actual info on a flying instrument
[20:47] <edmoore> and do the same thing again a few weeks later
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[20:51] <edmoore> i think the way to do it is to design an adc that can calibrate out all its own drifts and tempcos
[20:51] <edmoore> just build the entire thing around the most stable vref you can find
[20:52] <edmoore> and then just design the shit out of the pcb to minimuse temp gradients and other things at joints to get rid of all the thermoelectric effects
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> Or relative resistance and don't bother with the V
[20:53] <edmoore> and perhaps avoid amplification of the sensor output altogther to avoid all that distortion
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[21:07] <edmoore> SpeedEvil, indeed
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[21:07] <edmoore> it's basically just a fun or horrible problem
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> yeah
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[21:08] <SpeedEvil> Fun if you don't need it next thursday
[21:08] <edmoore> i think you'd have a hell of a challenge to get 21ENOB in a lab
[21:08] <edmoore> making it work on a hab then only adds to the fun
[21:09] <edmoore> might have to package the whole thing in a temp controlled enviroment
[21:09] <SpeedEvil> Just upsize the hab to carry your lab
[21:10] <edmoore> lol
[21:10] <edmoore> i think it's poss
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> yeah - teeeny atmospheric double-oven isn't _that_ hard.
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> It's just another annoyance.
[21:14] <edmoore> indeed - it's basically just a battle on every front
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> And eventually, seventeen not very hard things add up
[21:14] <edmoore> no single bit of balck magic
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> holy shit http://i.imgur.com/gAMb55w.png
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> and its still 0.5mm too big
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> Won't the helix fit through the bearing hole?
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> but it won't come out again :)
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> But yay!
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> heh yeah
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> it has to be dismanted afterwards
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[21:22] Action: LazyLeopard is reminded of a song... --> http://lyrics.wikia.com/Jordin_Kare:The_Engineer
[21:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-44 after 03a day silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-44
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> the disadvantage of buying in "containers"
[21:36] <nick_> edmoore: what do you want to detect at high altitude?
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[21:55] <SpeedEvil> nick_: it was a general discussion abbout someone asking about a useful sensor, and a pressure sensor being suggested.
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[22:05] <Ian_> edmoore I had a couple of those on the roof today . . . http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/MERLIN_dish,_Mullard_Radio_Astronomy_Observatory_-_geograph.org.uk_-_896227.jpg
[22:05] <Ian_> Of course crows can be elegant in slow, high maneouverability flight :)
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[22:16] Nick change: bertrik_ -> bertrik
[22:19] <dbrooke> edmoore: making use of the One Mile Telescope seems to have been an ongoing thing, we didn't get very far back in 1999 http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~arcus/cara/
[22:19] <edmoore> yeah they mentioned that
[22:20] <dbrooke> it's a shame but was just too much for the resource available
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> finally it fits
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> lol now i have space spare
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> anyone want some small SLS nylon bits?
[22:21] <Charlie_> What is that thing Laurence? :P
[22:21] <Laurenceb_> secret :D
[22:22] <Charlie_> Is it to launch rockets from?
[22:22] <Laurenceb_> maybe...
[22:23] <Laurenceb_> I have ~1x3x3cm if anybody has something they really want
[22:23] <Charlie_> The helixes though D:
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> yeah those are "fun" to do in CSG
[22:25] <Laurenceb_> it lofted using a point cloud generated in numpy
[22:26] <Laurenceb_> I guess thats a rule of CAD; if all else fails use lofting
[22:28] <richardeoin> Charlie_ I've update the docs somewhat, let me know if something needs adding http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/pico-tracker/
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> but you have to be careful or it goes full Zaha
[22:28] <Laurenceb_> and nobody wants that
[22:31] <Charlie_> richard looks awesome
[22:31] <Charlie_> Am I tripping, but I thought APRS wasnt allowed in UK?
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> not at altitude
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> why?
[22:32] <richardeoin> yeah there's a bit about that in the geofence section
[22:32] <adamgreig> not at altitude over the UK anyway
[22:33] <richardeoin> it knows it's in a country that doesn't allow airborne aprs so doesn't transmit
[22:33] <richardeoin> or that's the idea, aprs has been disabled for all the flights so far
[22:33] <Charlie_> The UK is in Green
[22:34] <Charlie_> I think France doesnt allow it
[22:35] <richardeoin> Yeah color fill map just shows frequency, not if airborne is permitted or not
[22:36] <richardeoin> my current list of not allowed countries: United Kingdom, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey, Belgium, Luxembourg, Portugal, France, Albania, Bosnia & H, Croatia, Finland (Aland), Hungary, Italy, Macedonia, Moldova, Kaliningradskaya??, Montenegro, Norway, Romania, Slovakia, Sweden
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[22:37] <Charlie_> lol N Korea
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> http://a5812dc8bd9140d242e5-6a6d461ce122a15fb2cf3be7c57b2f08.r88.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/PhoneSat_closeup.jpg
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> N Korea sat
[22:38] <richardeoin> Oh yeah Yemen and North Korea don't allow radio at all
[22:38] <richardeoin> iirc Leo stopped transmitting completely over N Korea
[22:39] <Charlie_> howd that happen laruecne
[22:40] <Charlie_> LoL should troll them by broadcasting "Greetings from the People of Glorious USA - rebel against the regieme and you will be paid great amounts of money by USA"
[22:41] <richardeoin> you can make the si4060 do way more modes than it was intended for
[22:41] <richardeoin> but I still think FM voice is pushing it
[22:42] <adamgreig> hmm idk
[22:42] <adamgreig> I got the si4060 doing FM voice
[22:43] <adamgreig> rocket alternates data telemetry and a voice announcement of altitude/state
[22:44] <richardeoin> oh wow
[22:44] <adamgreig> admittedly this is by crystal pulling and the 4060 is little more than a glorified PLL
[22:45] <richardeoin> I can't tell if you're genuine or just trolling me - you had a voice synthesiser of sorts on there?
[22:45] <richardeoin> *rummages through m2 repository trying to find evidence of this*
[22:45] <adamgreig> https://github.com/cuspaceflight/m2-electronics/blob/master/m2r/firmware/audio_data.c
[22:46] <adamgreig> https://github.com/cuspaceflight/m2-electronics/blob/master/m2r/firmware/audio_data.h somewhat less taxing on your computer
[22:47] <adamgreig> so no speech synth, just pre-recorded audio samples generated by the speech synth on our laptops
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> ooh CUSF github
[22:47] <adamgreig> to be fair, we had the idea for this day 2 of being in the middle of the desert with no internet or anything else
[22:47] <adamgreig> and by day 2.5 we had working radio voice announcements
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> omfg
[22:47] <richardeoin> excellent, sorry I ever doubted you
[22:48] <Laurenceb_> heh thats nutty
[22:48] <adamgreig> it's all cuz one other group had some cute box thing
[22:48] <adamgreig> which took radio telemetry from the rocket and did have a speech synth and made announcements
[22:48] <adamgreig> it was called 'radio kate' or something barmy
[22:48] <adamgreig> anyway they plugged their box into the site PA system
[22:48] <adamgreig> we figured we could do one better and just transmit the audio voice from the rocket
[22:48] <Laurenceb_> insane
[22:49] <Charlie_> nice one
[22:49] <bertrik> I've used this on arduino with an rfm69 for some fun: https://github.com/going-digital/Talkie
[22:50] <Charlie_> We had to do something similar, but speaking the output from an accelerometer on a pic dev kit
[22:50] <Charlie_> neat bert
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[22:54] <richardeoin> do you have any hab plans for this summer adamgreig?
[22:54] <richardeoin> your 5W PA looks super-neat
[22:54] <adamgreig> hmm
[22:55] <adamgreig> not sure! probably not
[22:55] <adamgreig> a lot of work will be going into relaunching martlet 2 and taking every effort to get it ready as early as possible
[22:55] <adamgreig> and spending a lot of time teaching CUSF freshers how-to electronics
[22:55] <adamgreig> they're learning so fast :')
[22:55] <adamgreig> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/751xgbp39lhvcgv/AACB4Job4bEWDNIxXAQarSoaa
[22:56] <adamgreig> i kinda wanna enter this pico-tracker competition but I feel like I'd be beat before I even began :p
[22:56] <richardeoin> ah that's great
[22:56] <adamgreig> they designed and routed and placed and soldered and are programming these all themselves
[22:57] <adamgreig> stm32f4 + accel, gyro, magno, baro + rfm69w + ublox + 4 pyrotechnic channels for rocket flight computer
[22:57] <Charlie_> see now that is proper education
[22:57] <richardeoin> is that a new revision of the martlet flight computer?
[22:57] <adamgreig> nah
[22:57] <adamgreig> this is for a different rocket
[22:57] <Charlie_> Can you call them freshers after a whole year? :P
[22:57] <adamgreig> Charlie_: i call them freshers when they're in like 3rd year now
[22:57] <adamgreig> hard habit to beat
[22:57] <Charlie_> LOL okay
[22:58] <adamgreig> I'm almost jealous i'm doing the electronics! the actual rocket airframe is cool
[22:58] <adamgreig> two stager made entirely from-scratch fibreglass
[22:58] <Charlie_> Wish we had something like that here
[22:58] <adamgreig> wet layup of the fabric onto a former to make the body tubes and cut out flat sheets for fins
[22:58] <Charlie_> Would have been impossible at Cov
[22:58] <adamgreig> hmm coventry?
[22:58] <Charlie_> Yeah thats where I ended up first year lol :|
[22:59] <adamgreig> they actually have a rocketry thing now i think! i was helping out one of the guys who started it
[22:59] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[22:59] <Charlie_> no way :O
[23:00] <adamgreig> hmmm or are they at warwick and just live in coventry...
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[23:00] <Charlie_> I still prefer notts... :P
[23:00] <adamgreig> not sure, i thought they were at coventry uni and they definitely live there but idk :p
[23:00] <Charlie_> I would imagine it would be Warwick uni (ironically in Coventry - nowhere near Warwick)
[23:00] <adamgreig> richardeoin: so yea, the martlet 2 fc is not changing, it's a bit of a beast and i can't face making more of them
[23:01] <adamgreig> the radio PCB for m2 i plan to redo a bit because i wanna change the gps around a little maybe
[23:01] <Charlie_> Adam, just out of curiosity, how big a rocket would you need to put a 1U cubesat in orbit?
[23:01] <adamgreig> but mostly the aim now is polishing the firmware and worrying about everything else - ignition systems, launch rail structure, cameras, logistics, antennas, etc etc
[23:01] <adamgreig> huge
[23:01] <adamgreig> well ask Laurenceb_ for a second opinion
[23:01] <adamgreig> but imo you're talking spaceX levels, $1m at least, and obviously that puts a lot more in orbit than a 1U cubesat
[23:02] <adamgreig> but the scaling is hard
[23:02] <Charlie_> I'm guessing somewhere between small hobby ones, and Vega
[23:02] <adamgreig> orbit is hard basically
[23:02] <adamgreig> getting to 100km is "trivial" in comparison and yet that's a really very select club for non-professionals
[23:02] <adamgreig> once there you need 8km/s more delta-v at least... tricky
[23:02] <Charlie_> yeah I suppose you also have to accelerat to whatever
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> yeah 1U is hard
[23:03] <Charlie_> yeah
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> 10 grams _might_ be doable
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> I had a go at n-prize
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> a design for it
[23:03] <adamgreig> richardeoin: what are your upcoming plans?
[23:03] <Laurenceb_> got to 1.5Kg lift off, two stage from a balloon
[23:03] <adamgreig> I intend to show the freshers your tracker after they're done with this to give them something to aspire to for the next PCB :p a few of them are keen to try HABs
[23:04] <Laurenceb_> but seriously, anything orbital is crazy hard
[23:04] <Laurenceb_> 100km is quite hard enough
[23:04] <adamgreig> are you just saying this now so we're more impressed by your talk at the conf?
[23:04] <Laurenceb_> lol
[23:05] <richardeoin> adamgreig: trying to get hold of some film that works really well for 11 - 14km floats
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> welcome to the club
[23:05] <Charlie_> XD
[23:05] <adamgreig> oh right yea
[23:05] <Laurenceb_> film is also hard... to get hold of :D
[23:05] <adamgreig> i would like to try this game too!
[23:06] <adamgreig> i have several hundred kilograms of suitable film but need to get a sample to my mate in the scary science lab to find out what it's actually made of
[23:06] <adamgreig> one day...
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> wow, nice
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> cant you just used a thor labs spectrometer?
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> *use
[23:06] <adamgreig> idk maybe? not my field
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> heh its trivial
[23:06] <richardeoin> I'm pretty sure some excellent films exist, it's just getting hold of a reasonable quanitity
[23:06] <Laurenceb_> i bet the thor labs drivers could do half the job for you
[23:07] <adamgreig> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/sets/72157621628336895
[23:07] <richardeoin> where did you get your several hundred kg from?
[23:07] <adamgreig> couldn't possibly speculate
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[23:07] <Laurenceb_> i could take a look at it for you?
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> if you want
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> I have a ton of spectroscopy kit
[23:07] <adamgreig> thanks but i think i should be ok, my friend in theory knows about this? just haven't gotten around to giving him a sample
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> ok
[23:08] <adamgreig> yea he likewise has the entire materials science dept at his disposal
[23:08] <adamgreig> will let you know if it can't work out tho
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> np
[23:08] <richardeoin> haha I see adamgreig
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[23:08] <Charlie_> Laurence, fancy being my project supervisor? :P
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[23:09] <adamgreig> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/sets/72157621632629963 as well richardeoin
[23:09] <kemfic> hello
[23:09] <adamgreig> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3741612693/in/album-72157621632629963/
[23:09] <adamgreig> check the rolls
[23:09] <kemfic> what is the best SDR for its price?
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> Charlie_: I'm not a university employee, sorry
[23:09] <Charlie_> erk ah well
[23:09] <richardeoin> I think this pico-tracker competition really a pico-film competition... and maybe you're not so behind there ;)
[23:10] <adamgreig> for all i know this film is especially porous for helium
[23:10] <kemfic> i have a question
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> yes you have to be caseful
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> PE is like sieve
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> *careful
[23:10] <kemfic> what is the best SDR for its price?
[23:10] <Laurenceb_> I have an airspy, but I dont like the driver situation
[23:11] <adamgreig> I think it's probably some LLDPE and some other things
[23:11] <adamgreig> it's kind of way old? I emailed the company that made it and there's no record of it in their current, archival, or old-archival systems
[23:11] <kemfic> ok thanks
[23:11] <adamgreig> airspy's good kemfic
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[23:11] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[23:11] <adamgreig> lol fine
[23:11] <adamgreig> for the price you can't touch the rtl-sdr though ;)
[23:12] <Charlie_> Kemfic I use these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-DVB-T-DONGLE-STICK-DIGITAL-TV-FREEVIEW-TUNER-RECEIVER-FOR-PC-LAPTOP-Win7-8-/400714756465?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5d4c75f171
[23:12] <Charlie_> Worked for decoding weather sat images
[23:13] <Charlie_> Don't the 'proper' pressure balloons use PET?
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> they used to
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> the thing is, few people have done serious work on small long duration superpressure recently
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> theres a lot of new packaging materials available since the 60s
[23:14] <richardeoin> I think I see the rolls you mean adamgreig
[23:15] <adamgreig> so way back before my time in CUSF people were working on quite big custom balloons like this
[23:15] <richardeoin> but yeah I think LLDPE and such are too porous for small superpressure
[23:15] <adamgreig> but it's hard and/or people got distracted and etc
[23:15] <Laurenceb_> yeah, ask edmoore
[23:15] <Laurenceb_> i remember talking to him about it
[23:16] <Laurenceb_> i suspect you have PE
[23:16] <adamgreig> yea i think long duration low porosity was not a design consideration
[23:16] <adamgreig> i think it's mostly not-PE
[23:16] <adamgreig> aiui
[23:16] <adamgreig> will confirm soonish
[23:16] <adamgreig> but with some PE
[23:16] <Laurenceb_> interesting
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[23:17] <richardeoin> someone metallocene yesterday - that's just a catalyst that means you get more long branch chains etc??
[23:17] <richardeoin> *someone mentioned
[23:17] <Laurenceb_> something like
[23:17] <Laurenceb_> there seems to be a whole family of polythenes
[23:18] <Laurenceb_> crosslinked, branched, high density etc
[23:18] <Laurenceb_> and combinations of those
[23:22] <Charlie_> nice
[23:22] <adamgreig> so many plastics @_@
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[23:24] <Charlie_> ikr
[23:24] <Charlie_> Why cant there just be _a_ plastic :P
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> I vote for polystyrene.
[23:25] <Charlie_> MDF for me
[23:25] <Charlie_> Kappa
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[23:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK2HBV - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK2HBV
[23:28] Upu (~Upu@ubn.upuaut.net) joined #highaltitude.
[23:49] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[23:58] heathkid (~heathkid@unaffiliated/heathkid) joined #highaltitude.
[00:00] --- Sun May 17 2015