highaltitude.log.20150511

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[02:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03car chase_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=car%20chase_chase
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[06:52] <LunarWork> hello
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[07:09] <Chetic> is it possible to buy premade payload antennas?
[07:09] <Chetic> not sure if this is meant for that: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_66&product_id=118
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[07:15] <UpuWork> hey Chetic
[07:15] <UpuWork> that will work but
[07:15] <UpuWork> I would recommend you use a 1/4 wave
[07:15] <UpuWork> we use those SRH-519's on our backup trackers
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[07:19] <Chetic> UpuWork: what's the reason for not selling payload antennas?
[07:19] <Chetic> what do you mean by backup trackers? why on them?
[07:20] <UpuWork> Reason : not found anything that works as well as a home made 1/4 wave
[07:20] <Chetic> ok
[07:20] <UpuWork> i.e
[07:20] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_66&product_id=88
[07:20] <UpuWork> +
[07:20] <UpuWork> https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payload_antenna?s[]=payload&s[]=antenna
[07:21] <UpuWork> Backup trackers tend to be things we just throw in a box need to be very quick to assemble so insert battery, screw on antenna and go
[07:21] <UpuWork> doesn't matter hugely if the signal is slightly weaker
[07:21] <UpuWork> as its just a backup anyway
[07:22] <Chetic> I see
[07:22] <Chetic> why would you need to do that?
[07:22] <UpuWork> why backup ? Well if your flygin 4 gopros or something you want to make sure you have a backup :)
[07:22] <edmoore> are you asking why would you backup?
[07:23] <edmoore> even experienced flyers can make mistakes with their flight computers
[07:24] <edmoore> have them reset when they fire a pyro or something
[07:26] <mfa298> Chetic: those pre-made (rubber duck) antennas are often designed for use on a handheld radio so may not work well on a payload unless you provide a suitable counterpoise (ground plane). Making your own will gennerally give better results and will be much cheaper.
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[07:27] <lahyouh> hi All
[07:28] <fsphil> morning
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[07:29] <lahyouh> could you explain the labeling on ublox modules : first line exist on the documentation but the 2nd 3rd and 4th do not.
[07:29] <lahyouh> example : neo 6m 0 0001
[07:30] <lahyouh> 244242434434
[07:30] <lahyouh> 1217
[07:30] <lahyouh> 0300 6
[07:30] <lahyouh> what is the mening of the 3 last lines
[07:31] <fsphil> no idea. 1217 could be a date code
[07:31] <lahyouh> hmmmmmm
[07:31] <lahyouh> may be
[07:32] <mfa298> one of those (possibly 244242434434) could be a serial number
[07:32] <lahyouh> no not a date, i have an example of 1447
[07:32] <lahyouh> ok so no worry
[07:33] <lahyouh> just want to order and don't want to forget anything
[07:33] <lahyouh> my second question :
[07:34] <mfa298> could still be a date code, I've seen things where part of the serial number tell you the year, week number and factory of manufacture as something like 0533G-
[07:34] <mfa298> but unless you know how to decode it it's fairly meaningless
[07:34] <lahyouh> any Ublox NEO-6M GPS Module form what i can find in ebay can do the job or do you recommend some modules ? want this for baloon tracking
[07:36] <mfa298> if you're flying it on a baloon I'd highly recommend getting one from http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_60
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[07:38] <mfa298> I think people have had issues with some of the ones on eBay where the module has used low quality parts that don't always work at altitude (when it gets very cold)
[07:38] <fsphil> 1447 could still be a date code
[07:38] <edmoore> your ebay modules should work though
[07:38] <fsphil> 47th week of 2014
[07:41] <lahyouh> hahahaha ... yes you got it fsphil
[07:42] <mfa298> I still refer you to my previous comment:
[07:42] <mfa298> 08:34 < mfa298> but unless you know how to decode it it's fairly meaningless
[07:43] <mfa298> 47th week starting from when (could be chinese new year or some other arbitary week), It could also be 14th year from some arbitary point (not necessarily 2014).
[07:45] <mfa298> Does a Neo-6m module being assembled in Dec 2014 make sense (given I thought they're pretty old devices now).
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[07:47] <lahyouh> dec2014 old !!
[07:52] <cm13g09> morning mfa298
[07:54] <mfa298> considering the neo-6 dates back to 2009 and ublox list it as a previous generation on their site (being replaced by Neo-7 and Neo-m8, a date code 5 months ago seems a bit recent.
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[07:56] <mfa298> lahyouh: also a word of caution. A lot of the ebay breakouts for ublox modules that claim to be 5v tolerant don't have any level conversion on the data lines so aren't really 5v tolerant (something to check out if you're using something like a 5v arduino)
[07:56] <mfa298> morning cm13g09
[07:57] <cm13g09> I don't enjoy Mondays :P
[07:57] <fsphil> tell me why
[07:57] <cm13g09> fsphil: When you work 8 days a week
[07:57] <mfa298> fsphil: :)
[07:58] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kobdb37Cwc
[07:58] <cm13g09> fsphil: lol
[07:59] <mfa298> fsphil: you spoiled it, I was about to find another cryptic line to add ;)
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[08:06] <lahyouh> thanks mfa298, i ll pay attention to this
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[09:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03car_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=car_chase
[09:17] <fsphil> ambulance_chase next?
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[09:23] <gonzo_> dragon_chase?
[09:25] <fsphil> chevy_chase
[09:25] <edmoore> jpmorgan_chase
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[09:30] <daveake> fsphil Make a note: rent a Chevy for the USA eclipse trip :)
[09:35] <edmoore> lol
[09:36] <edmoore> proably need to start coordinating frequencies now for that
[09:36] <daveake> and launch sites :)
[09:36] <daveake> Arrange evenly from coast to coast
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[09:43] <lz1dev> take one of those: http://i.imgur.com/5ga35qV.jpg
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[09:50] <fsphil> lol
[09:50] <fsphil> the solution to global warming
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[11:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03sp9uob - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=sp9uob
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[11:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP9UOB-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB-12
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[13:03] <SpeedEvil> http://xkcd.com/ hah
[13:04] <SpeedEvil> Love the alt-text
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[13:08] <daveake> hah
[13:09] <infaddict> Afternoon all. Balloon and chute arrived ;-) The balloon is much bigger than I thought!
[13:09] <adamgreig> do be careful with the balloon
[13:09] <adamgreig> once you take it out of the bag it's fragile and starts getting damaged by UV and oil on fingers and so forth
[13:09] <adamgreig> (maybe you haven't taken it out of the bag yet! if not I recommend leaving it there until you come to inflate it)
[13:09] <infaddict> ok thx adamgreig. unrolled it just to take a look and then carefully rolled it back up, re-wrapped it in the paper and put back inside plastic bag.
[13:10] <adamgreig> should be fine then :)
[13:10] <adamgreig> once did a school launch where it became apparent they'd been fondling the balloon since they bought it some months ago
[13:10] <adamgreig> discovered the hole in the balloon before we let go thankfully
[13:10] <adamgreig> although after they had run out of helium
[13:10] <adamgreig> luckily we have spare balloons and helium ;)
[13:11] <daveake> :)
[13:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03STRATOS_CHEM - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=STRATOS_CHEM
[13:24] <infaddict> that sounds a nightmare adamgreig! I dont have any spares so that would be an abandonment for me.
[13:25] <adamgreig> haha yea it was pretty terrible
[13:25] <infaddict> if anybody has any launches coming up next few weeks/months and wouldnt mind me coming down to watch and learn, please PM me. I can provide refreshments ;-)
[13:25] <infaddict> particularly interested in balloon fill and neck lift etc.
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[13:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N8ERF-5_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N8ERF-5_chase
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[13:56] <Maxell> Meh, habnl dramas
[13:56] <Maxell> "We are launching in 3 weeks but what transmitter do we need"
[13:56] <Maxell> Like, SRSLY GUYS
[13:57] <Maxell> oh and hi there been a while since I said something here :P
[13:58] <craag> yo Maxell
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[13:59] <Maxell> Hi there craag
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[14:00] <craag> How goes?
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[14:01] <Maxell> I've been off air for like two months. HF more like 4 months.
[14:01] <Maxell> I require more radio.
[14:03] <Maxell> I do still visit the hackerspace and radio club every week. Not much hacking going on in between though.
[14:04] <Maxell> Off to home. Interschip--
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[14:10] <gonzo_> keeping off HF is a good habit to cultivate
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[15:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N8ERF_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N8ERF_chase
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[15:39] <Laurenceb__> attn SpeedEvil http://shulmanaviation.com/product_info.php?cPath=292&products_id=2748
[15:39] <Laurenceb__> 4 of those...
[15:40] <Ian_> Hi Maxell, it seems that no one has answered your question - most strange . . . The NTX2B-AF from Hab Supplies seems like a good starting, and ending, point.
[15:42] <Ian_> What are you intending to run, RTTY? Where are you launching from and pico or NOTAMed balloon?
[15:42] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: Holy shit.
[15:42] <craag> Ian_: He was quoting an email
[15:42] <edmoore> Ian_, maxell is a regular
[15:42] <edmoore> hopefully this clears up any strangeness - there is none
[15:43] <craag> "It's ok, he's one of us"
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: I guess 190mm diameter - 600mm circumference - ~25000RPM
[15:43] <Ian_> Thanks craag, the crystal ball isn't working too well today. I recognise the name from a few lengthy tutorials a few months ago. It did seem to be a strange /
[15:43] <Ian_> question from him, given his prior presence.
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: For extra silliness - consider the above as the 0th stage for an afterburner.
[15:44] <Laurenceb__> but only a couple of minutes of flight time
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> (murderously fuel inefficient)
[15:44] <Laurenceb__> rofl
[15:44] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: yeah
[15:44] <Laurenceb__> EDF + afterburner could be ... interesting
[15:45] <SpeedEvil> The fuel efficiency compared to a proper jet is absolute shit.
[15:45] <SpeedEvil> But - if your flight lasts a couple of minutes - ...
[15:45] <Laurenceb__> I was thinking for a hover backpack
[15:46] <Ian_> Short hover at 300A?
[15:46] <Laurenceb__> afterburning backback couple burn your legs
[15:46] <Laurenceb__> Ian_: 1200A
[15:46] <Laurenceb__> at 60V
[15:46] <Laurenceb__> ~70kw
[15:47] <Ian_> I'm obviously having difficulty keeping up this avo; Bags I don't spring for the power source.
[15:47] <Laurenceb__> its doable in a small backpack
[15:47] <Laurenceb__> the fans could fold into the sides
[15:48] <Laurenceb__> could make a fun commute
[15:48] <SpeedEvil> Err - wait - lol. It produces about 5kg/s of air throughput. That would be ~300g of fuel a second, Neglecting stuff, that's 15 megawatts thermal
[15:49] <Ian_> A non-stop commute it would seem. Flips switch, ah s**t no gps lock . . .:)
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> I _think_ that would get you a factor of five in thrust, to ~100kg. Using 30kg of fuel in 100 seconds.
[15:50] <edmoore> 5kg/s of air is a lot
[15:50] <edmoore> for hobby level stuff
[15:50] <edmoore> blimey
[15:50] <edmoore> like, my air injector is 10kg/s on the current engine and that's A Lot
[15:50] <edmoore> you stand back from such a thing
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> I don't know if you can fairly call it hobby if it can ingest a small child.
[15:52] <edmoore> admittedly it's massively supersonic because it's coming through an injector
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> (I am doing the supremely lazy .04m^2*100m/s calculation, not doing it properly)
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> It would also make a truly excellent bouncy castle inflator.
[15:54] <Ian_> [16:51] <SpeedEvil> I don't know if you can fairly call it hobby if it can ingest a small child. - Would that be the sport version then. Frozen chickens are engineering!
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[15:56] <SpeedEvil> I think it is reasonable that with a minimal weight structure, you could get 3-4G straight up.
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[16:26] <Vaizki> SpeedEvil: some people keep dogs that could ingest a small child. they don't even have off switches.
[16:27] <Vaizki> 4675 usd for that EDF.. at least it's not ridicilously cheap as well
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[16:29] <Laurenceb__> http://www.etotheipiplusone.net/?cat=83
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[16:29] <Laurenceb__> more sane means of transport
[16:31] <Laurenceb__> http://img.banggood.com/images/upload/2014/04/w64/14.jpg
[16:34] <Laurenceb__> new easy to solder version
[16:36] <SpeedEvil> hah
[16:40] <lz1dev> Laurenceb__:  _  http://static.rgp.io/2015-05-11_wh54h4ckis.png
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[18:05] <michemto> Hi, question about PITS again... It is using baud rate 300 for image transfer, yes?
[18:06] <michemto> Would it be possible to enable camera, so raspbpi will save pictures to sd card but wont send them out so I could use lower baud rate?
[18:06] <daveake> It uses what you set. default is 300. See the configuration page
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[18:07] <daveake> To disable the SSDV but still take photos you would need to modify the camera script
[18:07] <michemto> Ok... Well it would be easier to keep it as it is, eh?
[18:08] <daveake> It's not hard to change that
[18:09] <michemto> As I understood... usually this custom shift is something between 800-900 for PITS?
[18:09] <michemto> I have no idea but our MTX2 on PITS is sending out correct data... but it comes 440-500
[18:10] <daveake> As with any transmitter you should set up the receiver to match the transmissions
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[18:13] <michemto> Yeah, I understand that...
[18:14] <michemto> Would it be reasonable to lower baud rate but still use SSDV?
[18:14] <daveake> no
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[18:37] <DL7AD> Upu: thx a lot. the modules came today without any problems :)
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[19:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[19:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> please turn on hysplit on SP9UOB-12
[19:05] <Dread> hi
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[19:07] <DL7AD> hi Dread & SP9UOB-Tom
[19:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> Evening Sven
[19:09] <DL7AD> hi Tomasz!
[19:12] <Reb-SM3ULC> evning!
[19:13] <DL7AD> hi Reb-SM3ULC
[19:16] <Reb-SM3ULC> hi sven!
[19:16] <Lunar_LanderA> hi tom and hei reb
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[19:24] <Upu> !hysplit add SP9UOB-12
[19:24] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Added 03SP9UOB-12 to defaults
[19:24] <Upu> !hysplit run SP9UOB-12
[19:24] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Your job has been added to the queue. Check in a few minutes
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[19:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AMFTST01 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AMFTST01
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[19:30] <Reb-SM3ULC> aha, not noticed mr oub in the air :)
[19:31] <Upu> ping infaddict
[19:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AVA - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AVA
[19:31] <infaddict> hey Upu
[19:31] <Upu> ----/\ your back up tracker
[19:32] <Upu> timing was amazing
[19:32] <Upu> if you want it
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[19:33] <infaddict> yep its probably a good idea, will PM you my address. do people track the backup all the time or only if main tracker fails?
[19:33] <Upu> you'll probably find people track it
[19:33] <Upu> its on 434.485
[19:34] <infaddict> ok cool, im planning on 434.200 for main tracker, depending who else is launching
[19:34] <infaddict> i'll see if i can find a small sphere or poly egg to put it in.
[19:34] <Upu> I have one with it
[19:34] <Upu> and an antenna
[19:34] <Upu> just dangle it on somewhere
[19:34] <Upu> its flown twice this one
[19:34] <infaddict> aha brilliant! thanks so much. i will hang it beneath my main payload then.
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[20:31] <Vaizki> rigol 1054z is here, finally
[20:32] <Vaizki> seems to be quite a box of wonders for the price
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[20:50] <Molit> Can someon suggest an alternative to the Canon A570?
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[20:55] <Molit> Ping up u
[20:57] <mattbrejza> whatever comes up on ebay when you search for canon
[20:57] <mattbrejza> ixus ones are fine
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[20:58] <Molit> Thanks, I take it they are programable using the chdk ?
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[20:59] <mattbrejza> yea
[20:59] <mattbrejza> check a specific model befor eyou buy though
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[21:00] <Molit> Thanks mattbrejza for your advice
[21:00] <mattbrejza> np :)
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[21:03] <Ian_> Works like magic Clive :)
[21:03] <Upu> pick one that takes AA batteries Molit
[21:04] <Upu> A810 is a nice camera
[21:04] <Molit> Will do, I was looking at A570
[21:04] <Upu> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canon-PowerShot-A810-16-0-MP-Digital-Camera-Silver-/221767054911?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item33a258b63f
[21:04] <Upu> £30
[21:05] <Molit> Thanks Upu, this one can be hacked using the chdk?
[21:06] <Upu> I believe so
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[21:07] <Molit> Thank for your help, I feel an eBay purchase on its way!
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[21:12] <Vaizki> ok n00b time.. how come I'm able to relatively accurately see 300MHz signals on my new 50MHz scope (attenuated of course).. I would have thought there'd be a lowpass filter or something keep out frequencies way out of the front end spec? :P
[21:13] <edmoore> what is the peak-to-peak voltage you're seeing?
[21:13] <edmoore> and what is the peak-to-peak you're feeding?
[21:14] <edmoore> but basically the answer is that low pass filters are not brick-walls
[21:14] <mikestir> also, what is the frequency you're seeing?
[21:15] <edmoore> so a completely vanilla single pole low pass filer will have a roll-off of about 20dB/decade
[21:15] <edmoore> so if the signal is x at 50Mhz, it'll be 20dB less at 500MHz
[21:16] <edmoore> i.e 100x lower
[21:16] <Vaizki> so I am feeding in 300MHz at -20dBm and seeing 300MHz 301mV on the scope
[21:16] <edmoore> (in power)
[21:17] <Vaizki> like a single order RC filter?
[21:17] <edmoore> yeah
[21:17] <edmoore> is your scope 50 ohm or lots of ohm?
[21:18] <edmoore> well it must be lots because -20dB into 50 ohm would be a lot less than 300mV
[21:18] <Vaizki> I think we're talking 10M ohm :)
[21:18] <mikestir> what scope is this?
[21:18] <Vaizki> Rigol 1054z
[21:19] <Vaizki> arrived today, playing with the new toy
[21:19] <Vaizki> so it's basically 50MHz 1Gsps
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[21:22] <Vaizki> let me put up a screenshot just for fun
[21:23] <Vaizki> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/367935/Rigol_300MHz.png
[21:23] <mikestir> looks nice. I guess given the high sample rate they will have cheaped out on the analogue filtering, since there's no real need to make it really sharp
[21:23] <Vaizki> so it's wanfered off a bit there as you see :)
[21:23] <mikestir> but to keep it useably flat within the specified bandwidth it probably doesn't really start rolling off until a lot higher
[21:23] <mikestir> amplitude scale is likely way out of spec though
[21:24] <mattbrejza> i would have thought a better filter would less than a better adc though
[21:24] <Vaizki> sure, and I expected that it would be severely attenuated
[21:24] <edmoore> ok so -20dbm in 10e6 ohms is about 14V peak-peak
[21:24] <mattbrejza> athough persumably a firmwire mod will turn this into a 100MHz scope and so then the 1GSPS isnt so overkill
[21:24] <mikestir> mattbrejza: it needs to have constant phase though
[21:24] <Vaizki> edmoore, let me check at 10MHz what is the peak to peak
[21:24] <edmoore> if you're getting 300mV peak-peak that's 46 times reduced
[21:25] <edmoore> Vaizki, yeah do
[21:25] <mattbrejza> butterworth filters have that iirc?
[21:25] <Vaizki> 1.3V
[21:25] <Vaizki> oh hmm sorry
[21:26] <Vaizki> I may have botched the whole test setup I just realized :)
[21:26] <mattbrejza> they could also have digital filters to increase the ENOB
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[21:27] <Vaizki> first of all, I have a direct 50ohm BNC cable from sig gen to scope
[21:27] <Vaizki> second, I have 10x probe setting active
[21:27] <mattbrejza> not sure if thats something you would do on a scope though
[21:27] <Vaizki> both of these are probably bad
[21:27] <mattbrejza> yea itll be 10x out then
[21:28] <Vaizki> if I change to 1x then it's 130mV on 10MHz
[21:28] <mattbrejza> is the scope hi-z input?
[21:28] <edmoore> apparently yes
[21:28] <mattbrejza> (some you can switch to 50ohm in but i doubt you can on this one)
[21:28] <edmoore> so what's the voltage ratio (peak-peak) between 10MHz and 300MHz, everything else being equal?
[21:29] <Vaizki> ok now that I have it on 1x I can't see the 300MHz waveform any more
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[21:29] <edmoore> worth saying it'll be wierd anyway doing this with all the dodgy termination
[21:29] <edmoore> i'd buy a 50 ohm terminator to do it properly
[21:29] <Vaizki> oh ok I got it now
[21:29] <Vaizki> yea that's what I started thinking
[21:29] <edmoore> i wouldn;t really trust it otherwise
[21:30] <Vaizki> that I shouldn't just slam it in
[21:30] <edmoore> yep
[21:30] <edmoore> tho it -20dbM you probs won't damage anything
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[21:30] <edmoore> i hope
[21:30] <mattbrejza> do you need termination at both ends of the coax though? (been reading appendix H of AoE recently)
[21:30] <Vaizki> no, one end only I think?
[21:31] <Vaizki> anyway, with 1x setting I see 130mV at 10MHz and 29.7mV at 300MHz
[21:31] <Vaizki> and I'm just running a sine carrier wave
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[21:33] <edmoore> um, both ends need to be terminated properly
[21:33] <edmoore> else you'll just get a massive reflection off the 'unterminated' (treating 1e7 ohms as open here)
[21:33] <edmoore> end
[21:33] <mikestir> the source would typically be 50 ohm already though
[21:34] <mattbrejza> itll reflect and be absorbed by the sourc
[21:34] <mattbrejza> you wouldnt ususally do it for RF but for digital stuff at least apparently its fine
[21:34] <edmoore> sure, it comes back to the source
[21:34] <edmoore> so the source can see double the voltage
[21:34] <Molit> Thank for your help all, just purchased a Canon A810
[21:34] <edmoore> if the reflection is perfeck
[21:35] <edmoore> and the cable length is wrong
[21:35] <Vaizki> do you mean get an in-phase reflection?
[21:35] <Molit> QUIT
[21:35] <Vaizki> JUST DO IT
[21:35] <mattbrejza> i didnt think it mattered how long the coax is
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[21:36] <Vaizki> ok so don't want to bug you guys with this really, was just wondering how it goes so "well" so far beyond spec in terms of seeing the waveform even though the amplitude is way off as I expected
[21:37] <Vaizki> not complaining of course :)
[21:37] <mattbrejza> so how much it is attenuated by at 300Mhz compared to say 10MHz?
[21:37] <Vaizki> 00:31 Vaizki: anyway, with 1x setting I see 130mV at 10MHz and 29.7mV at 300MHz
[21:38] <mikestir> mattbrejza: butterworth does feature a long phase roll off over a much wider range than the amplitude response, which would be unacceptable for an instrument within its spec bandwidth. This is really what I was getting at - use a simple filter but set the cut off much higher to minimise the frequency dependent phase effects
[21:38] <adamgreig> my 60MHz scope only does 500MS/s and I don't imagine it would see much of anything at 300MHz ;(
[21:38] <edmoore> might be worth plotting a few values between 10mhz and 300MHz
[21:38] <edmoore> see if it's straight attenutating or of the lpf is giving up
[21:38] <mattbrejza> thats what happens when you bought your scope before the rise of the rigols adamgreig :(
[21:38] <mattbrejza> seems odd after you said it doesnt do this when set to x1 instead of x10
[21:39] <mikestir> pfft you guys and your DSOs
[21:39] <edmoore> my scope can see 300MHz unattenuated
[21:39] <edmoore> nernernernerner
[21:40] <Vaizki> 47mV at 200MHz and 77mV at 100MHz
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[21:40] <edmoore> Vaizki, i guess it looks like it's just not the sharpest roll-off
[21:41] <Vaizki> and 114mV at 50MHz
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[21:41] <Vaizki> but I guess the "spec" is at -3dB as usual?
[21:41] Nick change: markie -> Guest5680
[21:41] <edmoore> i would have thought so
[21:41] <Vaizki> so it's normal to have 114mV at 50MHz even though scope is specced for it?
[21:42] <edmoore> remind me what it is at 10MHz?
[21:42] <Vaizki> 130
[21:42] <mikestir> I'd expect it to be correct in both amplitude and phase at 50 MHz if that's its spec
[21:42] <Vaizki> I would too but I'm sure someone slipped in a -3dB as usual :D
[21:42] <mikestir> but you said the cable is unterminated?
[21:42] <Vaizki> yes sir
[21:42] <mikestir> so the measurement is probably invalid
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[21:43] <Vaizki> sure, probably is
[21:43] <Vaizki> but I still see a pretty waveform
[21:43] <mikestir> not got any old 10base2 ethernet terminators?
[21:43] <Vaizki> nope, I threw a bunch out 20 years ago :(
[21:43] <Vaizki> that'll teach me
[21:43] <Vaizki> I have loads of t-connectors but no terminators
[21:44] <Vaizki> I guess I could terminate it in a spectrum analyzer at 50ohm? :)
[21:47] <Vaizki> done.. let's see
[21:48] <adamgreig> well you need to terminate it at the measurement point
[21:48] <Vaizki> oh I can't measure in the middle?
[21:48] <Vaizki> damn
[21:48] <adamgreig> in the middle might work..
[21:48] <mikestir> should still be better than nothing - if the line is properly terminated there shouldn't be any standing waves on it
[21:49] <adamgreig> yea, if the scope connects to the middle without another piece of coax you might be ok
[21:49] <mikestir> it's no different to 10base2 ethernet :)
[21:49] <adamgreig> siggen to a T on the scope to the specan
[21:50] <mikestir> this configuration also means you can verify the signal power on the specan
[21:50] <Vaizki> specan is actually a gsm test set
[21:50] <Vaizki> showing -23dBm
[21:51] <Vaizki> oops sorry -20.14dBm at 10MHz
[21:51] <Vaizki> and -22.3 dBM at 300MHz
[21:54] <edmoore> just cable losses i guess
[21:54] <Vaizki> so anyway with this setup, rigol shows 66mV at 10MHz and 22mV at 300MHz
[21:54] <mikestir> pk-pk?
[21:54] <Vaizki> Vpp yes
[21:57] <Vaizki> 333MHz is the max where it will trigger on a rising edge.. which seems reasonable given the 1Gsps
[21:57] <Lunar_LanderA> good night :)
[21:57] <Vaizki> it can't really go higher than that :)
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[21:58] <mikestir> so where does the response start to roll off?
[21:59] <mikestir> because that 66mV is about right, so the setup seems ok
[22:00] <Vaizki> to find a -3dB level.. 71% of 66mV = 47mV..
[22:01] <Vaizki> at 50MHz it's 60mV
[22:01] <Vaizki> and at 90MHz it's at 48mV
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[22:02] <Vaizki> this model can apparently be hacked to 100MHz bandwidth with a software code so probably the front end is ok up to 100MHz at -3dB then
[22:03] <Vaizki> get 44mV at 100MHz
[22:03] <adamgreig> if you can 'hack' it up to 100MHz with software, what on earth is it doing telling you about 300MHz signals?
[22:03] <Vaizki> I dunno, that's why I opened this can of worms :)
[22:04] <Jartza> you have plenty of those
[22:04] <Jartza> :)
[22:04] <Jartza> cans... with worms
[22:04] <Vaizki> I have an inquisitive mind
[22:05] Geoff-G8DHE-Tab (~GeoffNexu@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[22:05] <Vaizki> and actually I have a real can of worms in the garden
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[22:05] <Vaizki> waiting for thursday's trip to the island...
[22:05] <Jartza> as a backup? :)
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[22:06] <m0lit> ping Ian_
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[22:08] <Jartza> I'm just making an offer for weird request
[22:09] <Jartza> or well, the request is clear, I just think this potential customer might not know what they are requesting the offer from
[22:10] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[22:10] <Vaizki> situation normal
[22:10] <Jartza> ...or I'm just lacking the imagination... might be that too
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[22:11] <Jartza>
[22:12] <Jartza> like, 4000 tagsus. to bank.
[22:12] <Jartza> just can't imagine why.
[22:12] <Jartza> :D
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[22:13] <Jartza> but what the heck, potential customer asks, I'll offer
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[22:22] <Vaizki> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/367935/DS1Z_QuickPrint7.png
[22:23] <Vaizki> this thing has a few triggering choices :P
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[22:23] <adamgreig> wow, that looks like a nice scope :3
[22:24] <Vaizki> it was 300 eur + VAT
[22:24] <Vaizki> so REALLY EXPENSIVE :)
[22:25] <Vaizki> 4 channels too
[22:26] <Jartza> wow
[22:26] <Jartza> nice
[22:26] <Vaizki> http://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS1054Z.html
[22:26] <Vaizki> apparently they are backlogged until August or something
[22:26] <Jartza> I paid almost 300 for my 2 channel hantek
[22:27] <Vaizki> oh wait
[22:27] <Vaizki> it says in stock now :O
[22:27] <adamgreig> yea I paid over £300 for my 2 channel 500MS/s tenma scope ;(
[22:27] <Vaizki> apparently batronix got 4 full containers of these
[22:27] <adamgreig> that was many years ago though, maybe i should upgrade
[22:27] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[22:27] <mattbrejza> adamgreig: ever looked to see if they can be 'unlocked' to 100MHz or something?
[22:28] <Vaizki> but I need to sleep, now
[22:28] <Vaizki> so g'nite
[22:28] <Jartza> I need too
[22:28] <Jartza> but the offer first
[22:30] <adamgreig> it's hard 'cuz it's rebranded uni-t
[22:30] <adamgreig> looks maybe doable though
[22:30] <mattbrejza> google is a bit useless
[22:33] <adamgreig> I think mine is probably a Uni-T UT2062C
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[23:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KJ4RSG_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ4RSG_chase
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[00:00] --- Tue May 12 2015