highaltitude.log.20150505

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[04:14] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0311 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
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[07:31] Nick change: diegoesep -> fab4space
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[08:10] <lz1dev> !whereis k6rpt-11
[08:10] <SpacenearUS> 03lz1dev: 03K6RPT-11 was over 03Mediterranean Sea, Eastern Basin 10(34.17427,26.56682) at 0313176 meters about 03an hour ago
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[08:29] <russss> is K6RPT-11 geofenced to stop transmitting over most of asia, or are there just no receivers?
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[08:33] <SA6BSS> just look at aprs.fi and u se there is verry few resievers and those that are is not allways i.gating
[08:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03saddik_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=saddik_chase
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[08:36] <mfa298> technically most of these long term floaters should probably be geo-fencing so they only transmit over places the license is valid (i.e. a reciprocal agreement like CEPT). But I'm not sure any have yet.
[08:37] <number10> i think upus floaters have used geo-fence
[08:37] <russss> iirc the CNSP balloons do have geofencing for switching between APRS frequencies
[08:37] <russss> and they also don't transmit over the UK
[08:39] <mfa298> there's a lot of other places they probably shouldn't transmit as well. CEPT only covered Europe and a few other places (USA, Australia and a couple of others). I don't know if the USA have other agreements that might cover asia, africa etc.
[08:40] <russss> yeah hence why I was wondering
[08:42] <mfa298> I've not been aware of anything that does that level of geo-fencing so far. I think they've just done it to choose the right aprs freq.
[08:43] <mfa298> which might put it in a more dubious position (why are you selecting the aprs freq for asia when your not covered by a license to transmit)
[08:54] <craag> Leo's did
[08:54] <craag> His geofencing was quite elaborate
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[09:00] <DL9UL> !flight Justus-1
[09:00] <SpacenearUS> 03DL9UL: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[09:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> !flights
[09:01] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE-M: Current flights: 03SP3OSJ 437.7MHz RTTY 100 10(961f)
[09:02] <DL9UL> Hi, I need the flight doc "Justus-1" to be approved. As this is our maiden flight, how is the approval procedure?
[09:02] <DL9UL> Thanks :-)
[09:03] <craag> Hi DL9UL
[09:03] <Vaizki> have you tested the payload and seen it being received by dl-fldigi, uploaded to habhub, parsed correctly and your payload appear on the map?
[09:03] <craag> You need to post the flight doc id in #habhub
[09:03] <garymortimer> Goto #habhub and post it there
[09:04] <DL9UL> Yes, I checked the payload, submitted the telegramm and checked the parser log online
[09:04] <DL9UL> Ah, ok, thanks!
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[09:32] <Laurenceb__> http://i.imgur.com/tSzm8EM.png
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[09:41] <edmoore> lol Laurenceb__
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[09:55] <Vaizki> mandatory old but gold link: http://www.eisenbits.com/graphics/ext/tree-swing.png
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[10:45] <Laurenceb__> someone has been stealing my ideas
[10:45] <Laurenceb__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_rocket#Solar-thermal_for_ground_launch
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> Bastiges.
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
[10:49] <SpeedEvil> There was that 'airship to orbit' that was ridiculous unless you consider that this as a solar launcher
[10:59] <edmoore> JP Aerospace
[11:01] <SpeedEvil> The released data was little more than a few paragraphs that emphasised slow accelleration - which was widely ridiculed at the time.
[11:01] <Laurenceb__> yes they lose their marbles
[11:01] <Laurenceb__> *lost
[11:01] <SpeedEvil> For obvious hypersonic L/D reasons.
[11:01] <SpeedEvil> I don't recall anything inconsistent in principle with a massive solar-thermal launcher.
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> Which would be odd, but not in principle actually impossible.
[11:02] <Laurenceb__> I was thinking of ~10┬Ám aluminized mylar collector and ~15minute to orbit
[11:02] <Laurenceb__> yeah, simulations say its doable
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> yeah - and of course it scales.
[11:02] <Laurenceb__> pita to built the envelope
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> You were thinking of several meter class IIRC
[11:02] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[11:02] <SpeedEvil> If you go up tenfold, your engineering gets way easier.
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> (in some ways)
[11:03] <SpeedEvil> And obviously proportionally drag improves a lot
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[11:07] <Laurenceb__> it actually worked better if it was towed to ~42km with a balloon then released
[11:07] <Laurenceb__> rather than just filled with H2 and launched
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> I suspect for something larger, a monster quadcopter might be an option.
[11:09] <Laurenceb__> lulwut
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> As a tow vehicle.
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> IT's basically insane.
[11:10] <SpeedEvil> Truly massive props that spin at ~M0.5 or so.
[11:10] <SpeedEvil> It's one of those 'the numbers work, but...' things.
[11:11] <Laurenceb__> i dont understand the obsession with quadcopters
[11:12] <SpeedEvil> And yes, in principle a balloon is way more sane.
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[11:14] <SpeedEvil> http://www.diesel-rk.bmstu.ru/Eng/index.php?page=Vozmojnosti random free simulator porn
[11:16] <Laurenceb__> I dont understand why we arent all using CNG/turbo diesel vehicles
[11:16] <Laurenceb__> it seems to make perfect sense
[11:16] <Laurenceb__> i dont see why they are interested in methanol
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[11:20] <Laurenceb__> http://cngisuzu.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/ImpcoCNG.jpg
[11:20] <Laurenceb__> could be fun in a crash
[11:21] <gonzo_> I ran LPG for about 10 years
[11:22] <gonzo_> much easier than CNG, as it is stored at much lower pressure
[11:22] <Laurenceb__> yeah but LPG is harder to scale
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> I guess methanol has no issues with carbon particulates
[11:23] <gonzo_> and CNG tanks are that chunky, in a crash, the car could be turned to dust and you would probably find an intact CNG bottle in the debris
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> which are a regulatory issue.
[11:23] <Laurenceb__> i guess there is synthesis from natural gas
[11:24] <gonzo_> all the oithers are limited resource, laid down over millions of years
[11:24] <gonzo_> methanol is made in real time
[11:24] <Laurenceb__> yeah well nobody has a practical way round that yet :P
[11:24] <gonzo_> and mathanon suits the current invfrastructure
[11:24] <Laurenceb__> batteries that cost as much as a house and take all night to charge dont really count
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> Well, there was that PR blurb from SAAB aboput renewable diesel from CO2 and water
[11:24] <gonzo_> methanol
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> claiming 60% efficiency
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> But - it's all in the capital cost.
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> I mean - if you could get it cheap enough, I want one of those at home.
[11:25] <gonzo_> electric cars just move the pollution problem and add the battery mfr environmental cost
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> Add a couple of solar panels, and it's ideal for seasonal heat storage
[11:25] <gonzo_> I'd like to go RTG
[11:26] <gonzo_> think how carefully people wouyld drive!
[11:28] <Laurenceb__> haha
[11:28] <Laurenceb__> dusty fission rocket powered cars
[11:28] <gonzo_> the LPG only has a limited matrket, I believe they just flame off the excess. So rolling out more LPG for cars would be sensible. Thouygh it would never be a full soln
[11:28] <Laurenceb__> for the ultimate polluting drive
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: Orion.
[11:29] <Laurenceb__> or nuclear saltwater piston engine...
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[12:11] <UpuWork> anyone got any suggestions for a enclosure for a mast head preamp(s)
[12:12] <edmoore> a greenhouse
[12:12] <edmoore> a thermos flask
[12:13] <edmoore> a waitrose recyclable shopping bag
[12:13] <edmoore> a le creuset casserole dish
[12:14] <edmoore> my sock
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> Protip: Heat to +10C over the environment, and condensation isn't a concern anymore
[12:15] <edmoore> one of those nice pomonda ip68+rf sealed boxes with built-in BNCs
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/750ml-Stainless-Steel-Vacuum-Seal-Flask-Thermos-Travel-Hot-Cold-Drinks-Coffee-/141097291606?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item20da0dcf56
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> with the bottom pointed up, and you're just about done. A few tens of milliwatts will get it to +10C.
[12:16] <SpeedEvil> Do not, for obvious reasons, try to drill it.
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[12:17] <SpeedEvil> And yes, it needs a sun-shade
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Giant-Action-Airpot-litre-capacity/dp/B001MX9D6G if you need bigger. :)
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> The above for example needs only 4W to maintain 100C delta-T, and has a ~2.5" opening.
[12:18] <SpeedEvil> (once you rip off the silly plastic)
[12:19] <edmoore> don't use a thermos
[12:19] <edmoore> but yes, the bit about heating to stop condensation is right
[12:19] <edmoore> don't just try and seal to ip68 and hope that'll work
[12:19] <edmoore> it won't
[12:19] <edmoore> it'll just fill with water
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> It can. But you needs sealing to fucking insane vapour tight levels.
[12:19] <SpeedEvil> And while that can be done, you really don't want to.
[12:19] <edmoore> yes exactly
[12:20] <edmoore> hence ip68 or whatever your hammon project-box claims
[12:20] <edmoore> hammond*
[12:20] <SpeedEvil> I had a vapour tight USB hard drive enclosure.
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> I made it from soldered copper sheet, with three vacuum feed-throughs.
[12:21] <SpeedEvil> This was buried outside my window, and worked quite well for some time.
[12:24] <edmoore> UpuWork, but srsly, those pomona bnc'd enclosures are perfect for this kind of thing
[12:24] <edmoore> and will be nicely finished
[12:24] <edmoore> or just a generic hammon sealed project box
[12:24] <edmoore> hammond*
[12:26] <UpuWork> got a link to the Pomona ?
[12:27] <edmoore> let me try and find it
[12:27] <edmoore> there's a whole range of generic things
[12:27] <edmoore> will have a farnell trawl
[12:28] <edmoore> sorta hab-amp sized pcb?
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[12:29] <edmoore> this is broadly indicative of the range http://uk.farnell.com/pomona/3603/box-shielded-aluminium-blue/dp/1235011
[12:29] <UpuWork> x 2
[12:29] <UpuWork> nice thanks
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[12:30] <UpuWork> was going to make it with a drain hole at the bottom
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> Outside sun-shield and rain shield is generally a good thing
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> direct sun can easily get stuff to >50C
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> sun shield keeps it air temp
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> http://www.weather-watch.com/smf/index.php?topic=23736.0
[12:33] <SpeedEvil> http://www.beals5.com/wx/shield.htm
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> - overkill
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[12:38] <edmoore> UpuWork, yeah drain hole
[12:38] <edmoore> drain hole + heater or self-heating and you'll be gravy
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[12:41] <edmoore> UpuWork, x2? http://uk.farnell.com/pomona/3234/box-shielded-aluminium-blue/dp/1230750?ost=pomona+3234
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[12:48] <gonzo_> I did see an interesting little design, where they had a small vent/drain grill, with a copper rod that ran through it, so half the rod was inside and half outside the enclosure
[12:48] <Laurenceb__> i take your hammond project box
[12:48] <Laurenceb__> and give you a Clarkson project box
[12:49] <infaddict> guys does duck/gaffa tape contain any metal content? or is safe to use near antennas etc?
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[12:49] <gonzo_> so when it went cool at night, the rod woudl coopl qiocker than the box ans condesnse the moisture out of the box, before it condensed on the kit. Then it dripped down through the hole
[12:50] <gonzo_> not usually any metal in it
[12:50] <gonzo_> I have seen some ointeresting results of using ali tape near strong rf fields though
[12:50] <infaddict> thx gonzo_ - i didnt think there would/should be, but worth asking in case people have had problems
[12:50] <gonzo_> and the resulting fire
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[12:51] <infaddict> my ground plane will be held by such tape
[12:51] <infaddict> and my box lid too
[12:51] <gonzo_> a good test to whether a material will affect/absorb RF, put a sample in the microwave oven
[12:51] <infaddict> ;-)
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[12:52] <gonzo_> you could even use ali tape to hold a groundplane in place, as it would in effect become part of the groundplane
[12:52] <amell> hi. looking at doing my own PCBs and need software. Wondering if EAGLE light would be good enough for doing tracker PCBs? it says 2 signal layers max.
[12:53] <edmoore> that's fine
[12:53] <edmoore> 99% of people never venture beyond 2 layer
[12:54] <amell> I was a little concerned that it wouldnt let me do ground planes.
[12:54] <edmoore> it does let you
[12:54] <amell> oh okay. I will install it then and have a go
[12:54] <infaddict> yep amell ive just used it for my 2 layer first PCB
[12:54] <infaddict> i had 2 ground planes
[12:54] <amell> infaddict: great.
[12:54] <adamgreig> though i recommend using kicad, which is actually free and open source and allows as many layers as you want
[12:54] <adamgreig> (plus is better)
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[12:54] <amell> i guess ground plane doesnt count as a signal layer
[12:55] <amell> ive not used PCB soft for years. Kicad or Eagle Light? - which has the best parts libe?
[12:55] <infaddict> adamgreig: one reason i chose Eagle was all my components seemed to have library parts. does kicad have such support?
[12:55] <infaddict> e.g. every part i bought from online stores seemed to have Eagle files
[12:56] <edmoore> eagle will v likely have better parts libraries
[12:56] <edmoore> but with either tool i would recommend practicing making parts
[12:56] <edmoore> so that making your own part holds no fear in combat situations
[12:57] <edmoore> nothing more annoying than using an inferior part because it has a lib vs the part you actually want, because you think making a part is hard
[12:57] <amell> my rocket tracker worked well but i noticed the G force was pulling header pins off&
[12:57] <amell> so I need to get it all on one PCB ideally& :)
[12:58] <adamgreig> or use real connectors
[12:58] <adamgreig> eagle has more readily available part libraries out the box, but
[12:58] <adamgreig> in general my advice (and personal practice) is to make all my own parts
[12:58] <adamgreig> i can trust them this way, and you quickly build up all the parts you use commonly
[12:58] <amell> nah, the prototype is a right mess of wiring. its a pain to mount too.
[12:58] <adamgreig> it's not hard, takes maybe a few minutes
[12:59] <edmoore> header pins pulling *off*!?
[12:59] <amell> i mean the molex connectors ed...
[12:59] <edmoore> but a molex connector should be able to take like 100s of G
[12:59] <edmoore> maybe even 1000G
[12:59] <adamgreig> pulling wires off header pins i assume
[13:00] <amell> well, when i opened it, the connectors were hanging off the pins.
[13:00] <adamgreig> "connectors" though
[13:00] <edmoore> proper molex crimps?
[13:00] <infaddict> yep i've made my own parts in Eagle where I either couldnt find one or it looked wrong
[13:00] <adamgreig> are they just wires with female headers, arduino style?
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[13:01] <amell> yeah. wires with female headers.
[13:01] <edmoore> oh jesus
[13:01] <edmoore> never do that
[13:01] <amell> not surprising really :)
[13:01] <edmoore> that's awful
[13:01] <amell> its called prototyping& :)
[13:01] <edmoore> it's called pillage
[13:02] <edmoore> solid core has no business doing anything on flight hardware
[13:02] <amell> its stranded wire into crimps,
[13:02] <edmoore> oh right
[13:02] <amell> it is a prototype&.
[13:02] <edmoore> well that really should hold?
[13:03] <adamgreig> edmoore: the female pins won't hold on some male pins..
[13:03] <amell> it works good. so want it all on one board with four screw holes.
[13:03] <adamgreig> female headers or whatever
[13:03] <edmoore> i can't visualise this at all
[13:03] <edmoore> nvm
[13:03] <amell> adamgreig: yeah, some are a little loose.
[13:04] <adamgreig> edmoore: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10898
[13:04] <adamgreig> + https://www.sparkfun.com/products/116
[13:04] <edmoore> oh i see
[13:04] <amell> yeah thats it
[13:05] <amell> got one niggly problem. the LCD display i use to display coords, it keeps getting corrupted with single pixels here and there. seems to be temperature dependent.
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[13:27] <randomwaves> Hi all,
[13:28] <randomwaves> I just generated a payload doc for a dry run we want to on the 18th, for a flight planned for early june.
[13:28] <randomwaves> Would the powers that be be so kind to approve the doc so we do a complete end to end test? TIA!
[13:29] <craag> Hi randomwaves
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> randomwaves: I think you want the other channel that I've forgotten the name of
[13:29] <craag> Have you got a flight doc?
[13:29] <craag> (a document with your launch date, that links to your payload doc)
[13:29] <randomwaves> craag: yes, submitted through the website, doc id 7d80de6bc3a344a603ce6bd66ef5d062
[13:30] <mattbrejza> #habhub
[13:30] <craag> randomwaves: Ok, paste it in #habhub
[13:30] <randomwaves> Ah, nope, that I missed. Switching channels...
[13:30] <x-f> flight docs need approval, payload docs you can use right away (or create new ones)
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[13:47] Nick change: Geoff-G8- -> Geoff-G8DHE
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[14:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD0ZTV-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0ZTV-1
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[14:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MGSP_ONE - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MGSP_ONE
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[15:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9YCR - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9YCR
[15:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9UKT-2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9UKT-2
[15:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD0AWK-12 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0AWK-12
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[15:48] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[16:54] <linuxthefish> hi, can i make a small balloon with hydrogen?
[16:56] <prog> https://youtu.be/nLuOM9aOWvk?t=47s
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[16:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SKRUFFY - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SKRUFFY
[16:57] <linuxthefish> prog what if i don't blow them up? :(
[16:57] <prog> http://www.iswintercoming.com/lets-replace-helium-balloons-w-hydrogen-will-they-notice-t1040.html#p31751
[16:58] <linuxthefish> oh
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[17:14] <mattbrejza> that was probably methane not hydrogen
[17:14] <mattbrejza> (or potentially)
[17:15] <linuxthefish> can't i hold it with a string or something lol?
[17:15] <linuxthefish> i don't intent to go very high, just a few shots of my house :)
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> hydrogen and methane are fundamentally the same - it's just that methane gives a more visible flame
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> hydrogen is largely invisible
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> ^from a safety POV
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> Methane as a lift gases only virtue is it's very, very cheap
[17:16] <SpeedEvil> Of the order of a pound for a kilo of lift.
[17:18] <mattbrejza> i thought quadcopters were all the rage for taking photos of houses
[17:18] <linuxthefish> o
[17:18] <mattbrejza> (thats not to say you cant with balloons)
[17:19] <mattbrejza> as you dont want it to go very high you dont need to worry about underfilling it so youll need a smaller balloon than usual
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[17:20] <SpeedEvil> Major issue with balloons is wind.
[17:21] <SpeedEvil> Even with a string, 2m/s wind will make it move a _lot_ off vertical
[17:21] <mattbrejza> especically today...
[17:21] <Laurenceb__> http://tiffzhang.com/startup/?s=692727194547
[17:21] <daveake> s/2/20 today
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> Online wife branding? That sounds like a sizzling idea.
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> The most british startup ever. http://tiffzhang.com/startup/?s=69272719454
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[17:35] <lz1dev> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXql26sF5uc
[17:42] <mattbrejza> needs more propellers
[17:43] <SpeedEvil> And more cowbell.
[17:45] <SpeedEvil> yay rolling shitter
[17:51] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
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[17:54] <fsphil> the shutter has hit the fan
[17:58] <fsphil> impressive beastie
[18:00] <SpeedEvil> yup
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[18:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03buttcrap_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=buttcrap_chase
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[18:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[19:01] <zeta_> hi all
[19:03] <zeta_> Can anyone reccommend a flight or payload that I can export data for that will have some nice data I can use as a example in a STEM club? has there been any recent flights for example? there is so much data on habitat
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[19:10] <Upu> habhub.org/ept
[19:10] <Upu> knock yourself out :)
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[19:17] <SpeedEvil> http://t.co/2626wb8596 superdracos are super
[19:17] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[19:23] <Laurenceb> v close to vertical
[19:23] <Laurenceb> nice design
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[19:27] <SpeedEvil> That was bolted down.
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> Which makes attitude control easier.
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[19:36] <edmoore> works for colleagues too
[19:39] <Laurenceb> i meant the angle of the engines :P
[19:39] <SpeedEvil> As does putting them in the flame trench.
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[19:39] <Laurenceb> i always thought they were going to have issues getting them to fire at a useful angle
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[19:46] <SpeedEvil> Well - even 30 degrees off is still ~90%
[20:08] <Laurenceb> yeah
[20:08] <Laurenceb> and it looks like ~30
[20:09] <Laurenceb> http://www.kiss.caltech.edu/study/science/AIAA-2001-3377-169.pdf
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> hawt
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[21:57] <Laurenceb> any idea how fast you can spin a ball bearing before it explodes?
[21:57] <arko> why would it?
[21:58] <arko> oh nvm
[21:58] <Laurenceb> centrifugal "force"
[21:58] <arko> yeah
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[22:08] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[22:15] <SpeedEvil> Depends on the diameter.
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> And to a lesser extent what it's made of
[22:16] <SpeedEvil> For a given material, double the diameter, octuple the stress on the rotating thing.
[22:16] <Laurenceb> yeah looks like im >2 orders of magnitude off failure
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[22:33] <SpeedEvil> There are interesting papers using them for vacuum guages.
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> you spin the BB up to ~1MRPM or so.
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> and measure teh spin-down.
[22:33] <SpeedEvil> Nice thing is it doesn't care what the gas is
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[00:00] --- Wed May 6 2015