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[02:16] <Rohad> Just to confirm
[02:16] <Rohad> On habhub
[02:16] <Rohad> When it says 'speed'
[02:16] <Rohad> It means horizontal speed, right?
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[06:18] <x-f> good morning, high people
[06:21] <x-f> Reb-SM3ULC, did you find any details on the Serenity launch? especially its launch time?
[06:23] <Reb-SM3ULC> morrn
[06:25] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: yepp, chetic was in the channel right here.. :) he's aim for around 07 but exact place for release will be ajdusted for the predictions, he is from Sala south of the announced Avesta
[06:26] <Chetic> is*
[06:26] <x-f> morning, Chetic
[06:26] <x-f> is that UTC?
[06:26] <Chetic> morning!
[06:26] <Chetic> yes
[06:26] <Chetic> I'm not from Sala but it is looking like a good location
[06:27] <Reb-SM3ULC> Chetic: aha, sorry...
[06:27] <x-f> thanks, will try to receive it over the sea
[06:28] <x-f> what burst altitude are you expecting?
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[06:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ZS6GC_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ZS6GC_chase
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[06:50] <Chetic> x-f: 33km
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[06:51] <x-f> nice
[06:52] <x-f> good luck with the launch on Saturday and have fun!
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[08:06] <Jededu> ping daveake
[08:06] <daveake> pung
[08:08] <Jededu> Ahh on the PITS when I tx the callsign for telem is correct EDUPITS but the callsign for SSDV is default Pi-SKY any ideas
[08:10] <daveake> If you just changed the callsign, it's sending the old SSDV file
[08:11] <daveake> Let it finish, or stop the tracker, delete the file and restart
[08:11] <daveake> btw max SSDV ID length is 6 characters
[08:12] <fsphil> sorry about that
[08:12] <daveake> :)
[08:12] <Jededu> OK ill try that :)
[08:13] <daveake> Can't think of anything else; the code uses the same config variable for both telemetry and SSDV so there's no chance it's using the old payload ID
[08:13] <Jededu> It was a completly new build tho and I changed the callsign in the txt file before first run
[08:16] <daveake> Colour me cynical, but there's no "PI-SKY" in the code so it can't possibly use that ID without it being in the config file
[08:17] <Jededu> Ahh ok
[08:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03F4HHV - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=F4HHV
[08:20] <daveake> The LoRa branch has separate payload IDs for each "channel" (channel = RTTY or LoRa device 1/2 or APRS) but still same payload ID for SSDV and telemetry
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[08:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ZR6LJK_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ZR6LJK_chase
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[08:32] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03EDUPITS after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EDUPITS
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[08:35] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[08:52] <Jededu> I deleted the files and changed config to EDPITS still PI-SKY mmm
[08:53] <Jededu> Ill build it again gater
[08:54] <Jededu> later
[08:54] <Jededu> And those are def not my images
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[08:57] <diegoesep> daveake, I have just sent to you a pull request for lora-gateway
[08:57] <diegoesep> This new feature enabled by EnableKML=Y in gateway.txt allow to export in a KML file .kml for each payload, updating in realtime the position in the track of the kml. A -refresh.kml is also automatically created for viewing in realtime the updated positions from google earth.
[08:57] <diegoesep> This feature will be used in the chasecar when the internet connection is lost and will allow to have the payload position on a map even without internet connection.
[08:58] <Jededu> daveak where are the ssdv images stored? keep?
[08:58] <Jededu> daveake
[08:59] <daveake> "download" for the SSDV ones and "keep" for the full size ones
[08:59] <daveake> dated folders within
[08:59] <daveake> diegoesep ok ta
[08:59] <Jededu> Ok
[08:59] <daveake> I'm going to add a port like dl-fldigi has for other programs to listen to the telemetry
[09:00] <daveake> As I use that in my chase car for mapping etc
[09:00] <diegoesep> good, that will be nice
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[09:01] <diegoesep> also I have noticed that when there is no internet connection , the main decoding thread is blocked on curl uploads preventing from receiving the data
[09:01] <daveake> Also, there's some auto-tune code that someone else wrote
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[09:02] <daveake> yeah that one's on my todo list
[09:02] <daveake> I have real work filling my time at the mo but I'll get some free time in ~ 2 weeks
[09:03] <diegoesep> great :)
[09:06] <diegoesep> last thing I have noticed is that it seems that it is not using the tracker.txt tracker callsign for ssdv upload
[09:06] <diegoesep> but instead it is using the callsign in payload_x.txt
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[09:16] <diegoesep> look in : http://ssdv.habhub.org/F4HHV2
[09:16] <diegoesep> it is display same callsign for ssdv image and for receiver
[09:17] <diegoesep> but in my gateway.txt I'm using F4HHV3 for tracker callsign daveake
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[09:32] <LunarWork> hello
[09:36] <Haxxa> So is it possible to launch something into space for under $10,000?
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[09:38] <SpeedEvil> Haxxa: If you are a university, and can get agreements, and it's small, possibly, yes
[09:39] <SpeedEvil> A random group may have a much worse time of it
[09:40] <Haxxa> Well, in this case I don't mean piggy backig on a rocket... I Literally mean could a hobbist build something?
[09:40] <Haxxa> Or if not what would be the cheapest possible cost to send something for?
[09:40] <SpeedEvil> No.
[09:40] <Haxxa> Why not?
[09:40] <SpeedEvil> It depends what you mean.
[09:41] <SpeedEvil> Can the physical materials for an orbital capable rocket cost less than $10K - certainly.
[09:41] <Haxxa> really
[09:41] <Haxxa> and why has no one ever built one?
[09:41] <SpeedEvil> The problem is that machining those materials into a suitable launcher will take dozens of skilled people working for a long time.
[09:41] <Laurenceb__> cuz small market
[09:41] <Laurenceb__> and dev costs
[09:42] <Laurenceb__> but more realistically, you can easily launch a small cubesat for $10k
[09:42] <Laurenceb__> for certain values of easily
[09:42] <SpeedEvil> And the other problem is that it's unlikely in most places to get a launcher for 10K approved
[09:42] <Laurenceb__> still a shitton of paperwork
[09:42] <SpeedEvil> It depends how much you relax your ambitions.
[09:42] <Laurenceb__> also $10k is pretty irrelevant
[09:42] <SpeedEvil> For example, I have a design using a four stage H2O2/kero rocket.
[09:42] <Laurenceb__> so if you team up with say a university its likely to be $0k
[09:42] <SpeedEvil> Using really relaxed margins.
[09:43] <SpeedEvil> Staging helps lots.
[09:43] <Laurenceb__> http://www.rocketlabusa.com/index.html
[09:43] <Haxxa> ok but say when I get older i.e. in my lifetime - not in 0's yet would a hobbiest be able to do something like this likley?
[09:44] <SpeedEvil> Once you get in the range of a ton or so launch weight, you almost need another stage anyway - as you can't do what the normal rockets do. You see a _hugely_ increased drag penalty for going over the speed of sound. You need to ascend to ~20km or so at mach 0.8, and only then start to accellerate properly
[09:44] <Laurenceb__> rocketlab does look a bit http://www.rocketlabusa.com/index.html
[09:44] <Laurenceb__> erm http://tiffzhang.com/startup/?s=648742617639
[09:44] <SpeedEvil> Haxxa: Legal issues are very unlikely to go away
[09:45] <Haxxa> so silly they don't less us play with missiles and rockets .. pfttt.
[09:45] <Laurenceb__> lol http://tiffzhang.com/startup/?s=66436614972
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> In principle, advanced 3d printers do help with this.
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> If it becomes lots cheaper to print superalloys, or decent aluminium structure, or ...
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> Or filliment wind carbon fibre
[09:47] <Laurenceb__> a more realistic goal might be to get to 100km
[09:47] <SpeedEvil> Both are realistic goals.
[09:47] <SpeedEvil> It's just 100km requires _lots_ less investment of time and effort.
[09:47] <SpeedEvil> 100km is plausible for a tiny group or single person.
[09:48] <SpeedEvil> Orbit is in principle plausible for a single person, but they're gonna have to be really skilled, spend a _LONG_ time on it, and probably have a reasonable amount of cash to spend.
[09:49] <SpeedEvil> http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=about_this_project
[09:49] <SpeedEvil> ^and even then, unless they do the orbit illegally, are likely to need to spend many tens of K to get approval to launch
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[09:51] <SpeedEvil> The most important bit is system design, and avoiding optimisation.
[09:52] <SpeedEvil> You want lots of margin on each stage - which implies lots of stages.
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[09:57] <Laurenceb__> I have a design for a 1.2Kg GLOW orbital launcher
[09:58] <Laurenceb__> 2 stage off the shelf HPR reloads launched from a balloon
[09:59] <day> Laurenceb__: a 1.2kg rocket that is able to reach leo? Or a rocket that has 1.2kg ballast capability?
[09:59] <Laurenceb__> although i now realise i massively underestimated the difficulty of spin stabilising something well
[10:00] <Laurenceb__> a 1.2kg rocket
[10:00] <day> wow
[10:00] <day> how is that even possible
[10:00] <Laurenceb__> you are only really limited by air dra
[10:00] <Laurenceb__> *drag
[10:01] <Laurenceb__> so as you go higher at liftoff, you can get lighter
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> And yes - the above was for a ~1kg payload.
[10:01] <Laurenceb__> i was looking at 15gram payload
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> For a gram or two of payload, things can get wierd
[10:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI_SKY_PLUS after 037 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI_SKY_PLUS
[10:01] <day> ive watched a few youtube vids of pretty big hobby projects. and they werent even remotely able to reach orbit
[10:01] <day> and they built some big ass rockets
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> day: In general, they're doing it wrong.
[10:01] <Laurenceb__> yup
[10:01] <SpeedEvil> day: 'big ass rocket' is in many ways the entire opposite of what you want to do.
[10:02] <SpeedEvil> day: If you have a rocket taking off from the ground, and accellerating at 10G - unless it weighs over (say) 20 tons, it's not getting to orbit.
[10:02] <day> SpeedEvil: well i assumed they need to be that big to contain enough fuel to get higher.
[10:02] <day> so the key is to control the fuel flow
[10:03] <SpeedEvil> For small rockets - going fast low in the atmosphere purely burns fuel and wastes it against drag
[10:03] <day> keep it low till you are high enough
[10:03] <SpeedEvil> You can get to orbit with high accelleration, but...
[10:03] <day> Laurenceb__: what does your 1.2kg rocket cost?
[10:04] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msXtgTVMcuA
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[10:05] <Laurenceb__> day: a lot of your time to build it
[10:05] <SpeedEvil> day: In principle, it's quite inexpensive - the individual components are cheap
[10:05] <day> i dont have the tools or the plan to make one. just intrigued :)
[10:06] <Laurenceb__> its the faff of building it thats the problem
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> It's gonna take a long time to figure it out, and perhaps several-many launches
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> The most expensive bit is almost the balloon
[10:06] <SpeedEvil> (single component)
[10:06] <Laurenceb__> yeah, balloon was 40% of my budget
[10:06] <day> ah you lift the whole thing to ~40km? haha. i thought we are talking about ground starts
[10:06] <Laurenceb__> i got the cost down to £600
[10:07] <Laurenceb__> but there were a lot of parts to build, CF bulkheads and other tricky bits
[10:07] <day> what fuel do you use?
[10:07] <SpeedEvil> Ground starts could be done, but you need to swap a 60s burn rocket stage in for the balloon
[10:07] <Laurenceb__> off the shelf HPR reloads
[10:08] <SpeedEvil> And that means you can't use a solid rocket stage
[10:08] <SpeedEvil> At altitude, you can use ridiculous accellerations without any issues at all as long as nothing falls off.
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[10:09] <SpeedEvil> On the ground - well - see the above ABM test
[10:09] <SpeedEvil> And teh ridiculous shape
[10:09] <day> im amazed the rocket doesnt tumble. if you accelerate it at 10G in almost non existing atmosphere
[10:10] <SpeedEvil> It's not ballistically stabilised, but actively
[10:12] <day> are there documented projects? Has anyone managed to create a stable orbit? Or leave earth orbit?
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> No.
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> Well, there are documented projects.
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> But none have - at least publically - succeeded
[10:13] <day> the next frontier :D
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[10:20] <SpeedEvil> HPR in general concentrates on 'looks like a rocket', not 'absolutely 100% full of fuel and minimising weight to extraordinary levels.
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[10:22] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcyBBSZJURk - interesting and worth a watch
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEdk-XNoZpA - more relevant
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> Blue origins test flight of passenger vehicle to ~100km
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[11:02] <x-f> that was soooo yesterday
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[11:12] <Laurenceb__> wait wut
[11:12] <Laurenceb__> blue origin built something
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> WAcky
[11:19] <SpeedEvil> Of course - the obvious corrolory of that is you can pull off the ~4 ton passenger thing (guess) and stick a 4 ton rocket that now doesn't have to deal with drag at all on it.
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[11:22] <Laurenceb__> i just shocked that they actually did anything
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[11:24] <SpeedEvil> And if you normally have a payload of that shape, then you can do stupid stuff like a pancake of 100 asparagus rockets
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> err - not asparagus
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTRAG_%28rocket%29
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> As a stupid example, if you can get 1km/s from a solid rocket massing equal to the payload, then you can have 9 stages, and end up with an orbital rocket that you can basically design in an afternoon.
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> And get to interplanetary space with a several kilo payload
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> (yes, it has a payload fraction of .1%)
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[11:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03INFCU1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=INFCU1
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[11:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03car_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=car_chase
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[12:07] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0311 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
[12:08] <sq5kvs> so, guys
[12:09] <sq5kvs> what is the chance progress will burn over my home?
[12:09] <sq5kvs> 50%
[12:09] <SpeedEvil> sq5kvs: What latitude are you at
[12:10] <SpeedEvil> If under 51 degrees - 0%
[12:10] <sq5kvs> 52, but it's not important
[12:10] <sq5kvs> the chance always is 50%
[12:10] <SpeedEvil> what?
[12:10] <zyp> «50-50, either it happens or it doesn't»
[12:11] <sq5kvs> will burn or not :D
[12:11] <sq5kvs> zyp: right!
[12:11] <daveake> Exellent, I have a 50% chance of winning the lottery*
[12:11] <daveake> * if I enter
[12:12] <daveake> Maybe I'll enter twice and make it 100%
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[12:13] <sq5kvs> anyway, because of longer holidays, I have an idea to organise small barbecue. It's good opportunity , always. To burn something :D
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[12:16] <Laurenceb__> time to reinforce the roof
[12:16] <sq5kvs> about the chances. Today I have seen hm.. expected results of presidential elections in second round. Candidate 1: 55%. Candidate 2: 39% .. So.. Who will get 6%? :)
[12:19] <sq5kvs> Laurenceb__: Right, progress can mix up my antennas.
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[12:34] <sq5kvs> does anyone has seen GPS tracker for ferrets? I have three (ferrets) and never can find the
[12:34] <sq5kvs> them
[12:35] <edmoore> http://hackaday.com/2010/03/17/arduino-balloon-tracking/
[12:36] <daveake> Get them together and make a ferret ring
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[12:39] <sq5kvs> they can destroy everything
[12:42] <sq5kvs> brood of satan and worms!
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[12:44] <infaddict> hey guys, am i right to think the maximum number of theoretical satellites for a hemisphere is 16? Assuming no outages of course. Clearly normal usage would be less than this, esp at ground level due to buildings etc.
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[12:45] <infaddict> wondering how many sats is normal once a balloon is at altitude?
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[12:49] <daveake> Depends on what else is near the antenna, what type of antenna, and whether or not you put the GPS into power saving mode
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[12:51] <infaddict> ok thx dave, agree its a very hypothetical question and depends on many factors.
[12:51] <infaddict> i'm getting 6-7 sats at ground level at the moment
[12:51] <infaddict> with a chip antenna and in normal power mode (flight airborne mode)
[12:54] <sq5kvs> infaddict: 6-7 it's ok - But You have clear horizon?
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[12:56] <amell> Does anyone know what this is for? http://m.imgur.com/E7rOvAr
[12:56] <amell> Can't figure it out
[12:58] <infaddict> nope i have some semi detached houses about 30 metres either side of me
[12:58] <infaddict> so i think 6-7 is ok for my situation
[13:01] <sq5kvs> https://in-the-sky.org/satmap.php - it should works, but now I have some problem with this page
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[13:05] Nick change: amell_ -> amell
[13:06] <mfa298> amell: that looks a bit like a mini pci / mini pci-e type connector, but context probably helps there
[13:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC1DEO-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC1DEO-11
[13:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W1YA-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W1YA-11
[13:17] <amell> mfa298: there's no context. That's the problem. Was posted on a friends LinkedIn feed asking if anyone knew what it was for...
[13:17] <amell> I agree it looks like mini PCI
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[14:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD0ZTV-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0ZTV-1
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[14:09] <sq5kvs> haha : http://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-concludes-most-rigorous-super-pressure-balloon-flight-to-date
[14:10] <Laurenceb__> heh 32 days
[14:10] <sq5kvs> yea :)
[14:11] <sq5kvs> btw guys
[14:11] <sq5kvs> I;m trying to "develop" dualband antenna for 2m/70cm rx only
[14:11] <sq5kvs> but
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[14:13] <sq5kvs> what is the typical polaization of antenna in balloons..
[14:15] <SpeedEvil> vertical
[14:15] <sq5kvs> if is 'inverted" vertical, polarization should be vertical, but if it's dipole, often should be "horizonta"
[14:15] <SpeedEvil> horizontal polarisation implies assymetric horizontal radiation
[14:15] <SpeedEvil> which you don't want
[14:15] <SpeedEvil> Vertical dipole emits vertically polarised
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[14:17] <KM4FSW> hey upu: any timeline on the new adsb preamps?
[14:17] <sq5kvs> ok , so I have seen the counterpoises, not the "cross" dipole
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[14:21] <UpuWork> hey KM4FSW working on some stuff
[14:21] <UpuWork> we tried one idea which didn't work
[14:21] <UpuWork> but have another idea I'm testing
[14:21] <UpuWork> I've tuned the existing ones up
[14:21] <UpuWork> replaced the inductors with some better ones
[14:21] <UpuWork> which has taken the gain up 2db
[14:22] <UpuWork> just testing some PCB filters atm
[14:22] <sq5kvs> SpeedEvil: Thanks. I know it, but I wasn't sure what kind of antennas are typically used in payloads.
[14:22] <UpuWork> but yet another chinese holiday in the way
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[14:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K5ARB-10 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K5ARB-10
[14:24] <sq5kvs> I had a great idea but ..
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[14:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K5ARB-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K5ARB-11
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[14:31] <Laurenceb__> http://chrishecker.com/Kurt_G%C3%B6del_is_Laughing_His_Ass_Off_Right_Now
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[14:39] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[15:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC3DDW-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC3DDW-11
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[16:38] <mcbcurator> Hey all. launch tomorrow!
[16:38] <mcbcurator> daveake, upu, we're carrying your APRS board.
[16:40] <Upu> ooo super
[16:40] <Upu> whats the aprs callsign ?
[16:40] <mcbcurator> KD5ZPL
[16:40] <Upu> !aprs list
[16:40] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Tracking via APRS: 03DL4MDW-11, 03DL4MDW-12, 03DN4GB-11, 03J43VHF-11, 03KB1YTY, 03KC3EMR-12, 03KC8UCH-11, 03KD0TRE-11, 03KD2E-12, 03KF4OVF-2, 03KF5PGW-8, 03KF5WYX-11, 03KG5FKB-11, 03LU7AA-11, 03M0RPI-9, 03SP9UOB-11
[16:40] <Upu> -11 ?
[16:40] <mcbcurator> yes
[16:40] <Upu> !aprs add KD5ZPL-11
[16:40] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Added 03KD5ZPL-11 to APRS Importer
[16:41] <Upu> ace can't wait
[16:41] <Upu> what time and what TZ ?
[16:41] <mcbcurator> ~1430Z. I did a flight doc just a sec ago
[16:41] <Upu> need it approving ?
[16:42] <Upu> back in 5
[16:43] <mcbcurator> whoops, messed it up. It's actually 1300Z. But the flight doc will be right anyway.
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[16:46] <Upu> you need the flight doc approving
[16:46] <Upu> so post me the flight doc iod
[16:46] <Upu> id
[16:49] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[16:51] <mcbcurator> sorry was on the phone with FAA filing NOTAM. Looks like I closed the window with the ID. :(
[16:52] <mcbcurator> found it: 94072a51069962443c0165da34b862e8
[16:52] <Upu> can you transmit a few strings and upload them ?
[16:53] <mcbcurator> erm, yes. Standby. It'll take a couple minutes to get everything booted up and powered on.
[16:55] <mcbcurator> I'm going to have my computer primarily listening on 70cm, so hopefully someone hears the APRS as well.
[16:55] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[16:56] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[16:58] <mcbcurator> haha, I'm a big idiot. No SD card in the Pi. :P
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[17:05] <daveake> (back)
[17:05] <daveake> yes that'd compromise the performance somewhat
[17:08] <mcbcurator> argh are you kidding me. now the PITS lights aren't coming on. I wonder what's happened. Fouled up SD card, perhaps...
[17:09] <russss> oh raspberry pies
[17:20] <mcbcurator> ok so upu, it appears I can't transmit any strings. I don't know what's going on, but I'm still troubleshooting.
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[17:24] <mcbcurator> ok, time to go wipe the SD card and try again.
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[17:26] <russss> I think a spare SD card with the same image on is probably a good plan if you're doing anything with a Pi
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[17:46] <Jededu> ping upu
[17:46] <Upu> hey Jededu
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[17:47] <Jededu> All done forgot the antennas, just send them when you can they are on the order thanks for that
[17:49] <mclane_> H upu; I have a quick HW related question: how do you solder qfn parts? e. g. the voltage regulator on your pava board 2-3 years ago?
[17:49] <Upu> sure nps
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[17:49] <Upu> stencil mclane_
[17:50] Nick change: Matt_soton -> mattbrejza
[17:50] Possible future nick collision: mattbrejza
[17:50] <mclane_> uh - the semi-pro approach:-(
[17:50] <edmoore> you can do it with an iron, tho binocular microscope helps a lot (and i normally have no probs seeing)
[17:50] <prog> if the question was for me, I'd have said:
[17:50] <edmoore> stencil is in no way semi-pro!
[17:50] <prog> chinese mclane_
[17:51] <Upu> you can solder through vias but use a stencil
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[17:51] <mattbrejza> ask someone nicely with a laser cutter
[17:51] <Upu> the original pava7's I used a via on the back of the qfn stuff and solderer through
[17:51] <edmoore> i just used slightly extended pads
[17:52] <Upu> well
[17:52] <Upu> I mean for ground pads under the chip
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[17:52] <edmoore> oh sure
[17:52] <edmoore> (tho keep the via untented!)
[17:52] <Upu> normal qfn stuff like ed says extended pads and fine iron
[17:53] <Upu> yeah make sure you do that :)
[17:53] <mclane_> so you first solder the ground pad in the middle through a via and then the edge contacts?
[17:53] <Upu> seriously save yourself pain
[17:53] <Upu> do stencil
[17:53] <Upu> toaster oven
[17:53] <edmoore> i can't recommend stencils enough
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[17:53] <edmoore> which is why i recommend them a lot to whoever will listen
[17:54] <edmoore> and to those who won't listen who eventually listen
[17:54] <Jededu> stratx
[17:54] <edmoore> Jededu, give up
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[18:23] <kc2pit> I've done a lot of QFNs with an iron and hot air gun. I load the small pads up with as much solder as they'll hold with plenty of flux, put some solder on the ground pad (getting that quantity right is the only hard part), refresh the flux (usually clean the old stuff off first), drop the chip on, and heat with air.
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[18:24] <kc2pit> It's not too hard, but stencil+paste beats the crap out of loading the pads with solder on an iron.
[18:24] <Harvy> Hi guys, I was wondering if anyone knows about putting designs on balloons?
[18:24] <kc2pit> Hot air works fine instead of an oven, at least for the small boards I normally work with.
[18:25] <Harvy> Either transfers or paint on foil or latex.
[18:26] <mclane_> what is a good source for stencils?
[18:26] <kc2pit> Harvy: I would not expect that to work on latex balloons. They stretch enormously, and one normally takes pains to keep them clean for fear of creating weak points and causing premature burst.
[18:29] <kc2pit> mclane_: So far, I've only used https://www.oshstencils.com/ . They make kapton stencils, which are annoyingly curly. They're still better than no stencil. I plan to try http://dirtypcbs.com/ steel stencils with my next order, and would love to hear if anybody has used them.
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[18:41] <Jededu> edmoore I have
[18:41] <Jededu> :)
[18:41] <edmoore> :)
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[18:45] <Harvy> So has anyone actually tried transfers on balloons?
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[18:48] <edmoore> no
[18:48] <edmoore> it sounds like a really bad idea
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> You would need to get it _very_ dyed
[18:50] <SpeedEvil> as it will expand lots
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[19:08] <mcbcurator> Upu: update. Reformatting SD card. Had to go to a meeting but will get back to it in an hour.
[19:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03IK2TGW_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK2TGW_chase
[19:08] <Upu> nps this is why we suggest you test :)
[19:09] <mcbcurator> Oh indeed. Was going to do a test today anyway.
[19:11] <mcbcurator> Planning on booting the tracker 90 minutes prelaunch tomorrow at home to ensure it works there too.
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[19:21] <mcbcurator> Also hoping that whatever cattle ranch we land on has friendly cowboys who let us look for the payload.
[19:22] <edmoore> or hook with with a lassoo as it's coming down
[19:22] <mcbcurator> Haha, while riding my horse?
[19:22] <edmoore> (my knowledge of cowboys is broadly informed my hollywood)
[19:22] <edmoore> by*
[19:24] <mcbcurator> It's probably not too inaccurate honestly. Texas is a strange place.
[19:28] <fxmulder> I've seen far less cowboy paraphernalia since I moved to texas than I saw living up in south dakota
[19:28] <mcbcurator> Guess it might depend where in TX you are. But SD is pretty cowboy-y too!
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[19:30] <MIG-29> Hi there!
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[19:32] Nick change: SpacenearUS1 -> SpacenearUS
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[19:42] <Upu> evening MIG-29
[19:42] <MIG-29> good evening :)
[19:43] <Babs_> evening everyone - my yaesu is outputting rtty but I'm not getting a waterfall on fl-digi. i have a 3.5mm lead from the yaesu to the dell laptop (has a combined headphone microphone jack) - trying to figure out why not!
[19:43] <Babs_> should s
[19:44] <Babs_> should the switch on the yaesu next to the jack be sp or ph?
[19:44] <pc1pcl> combined jack might not 'see' your input as a mike.
[19:44] <MIG-29> Does anybody know online stores that sell products related to high altitude ballooning?
[19:44] <pc1pcl> I think the sp/ph doesn't really matter, just that it might limit max volume if set to headphone
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[19:45] <Babs_> so when i plug it in it asks me whether it is a bunch of different options, which one is appropriate line in or mic in?
[19:45] <Upu> Well MIG-29 balloons and stuff www.randomaerospace.co.uk
[19:45] <Upu> electronics my shop http://ava.upuaut.net/store
[19:45] <pc1pcl> Babs_: Line in, probably.
[19:45] <Upu> there are no others worth talking about :)
[19:46] <pc1pcl> but if that doesn't work, try mic, but might have to make sure you turn the volume quite far down.
[19:48] <pc1pcl> Babs_: also try recording some of the supposedly incoming sound with a simple recording program to see if it's an issue with fldigi or with input settings.
[19:48] <Vaizki> a combined HP/MIC jack might need a 3.5mm plug with 2 rings, i.e. stereo HP and mono mic all in one (with common ground)
[19:48] <Vaizki> like some phones / tablets
[19:50] <Vaizki> other option is that it's measuring impedance of the line or something to decide whether you just plugged in a microphone or headphones.. dunno
[19:52] <Babs_> good tip vaizki - its only got one ring and through a third party recording program and that isn't pulling in any sound either
[19:54] <Vaizki> which yaesu is it btw?
[19:54] <Babs_> 817ND
[19:55] <Vaizki> ah, got the same one here
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[19:58] <Vaizki> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Startech-com-3-5mm-Headset-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B004SP0WAQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1430423862&sr=8-1&keywords=headset+adapter
[19:58] <Vaizki> that kind of cable works with my Win 8.1 tablet with only one port
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[20:00] <Vaizki> or you can get a USB sound card like http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microphone-Earphone-Socket-Speaker-Adapter/dp/B00DUVGLLI/ref=pd_sim_computers_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=11J46PSF2ZSE01TNR96Bhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Microphone-Earphone-Socket-Speaker-Adapter/dp/B00DUVGLLI/ref=pd_sim_computers_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=11J46PSF2ZSE01TNR96B
[20:01] <Vaizki> ok maybe not that exact one based on reviews :)
[20:02] <Jededu> ping daveake
[20:03] <daveake> pong
[20:05] <Jededu> Still have this PI-SKY problem, I have deleted all the images, done another build and set the callsign in the config
[20:06] <Jededu> The telem picks up the callsign changes but not SSDV
[20:07] <daveake> There is no "PI-SKY" ID in the code or the config
[20:07] <daveake> Default (in the config) is PI_SKY_PLUS
[20:07] <Jededu> I Know odd
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[20:07] <DL7AD> ping Upu
[20:07] <Upu> hey
[20:07] <DL7AD> Upu: any conference updates?
[20:08] <Upu> Err open for registration
[20:08] <daveake> kill the tracker (sudo killall tracker), recompile/link (run "make" in /home/pi/pits/tracker), then restart the tracker (sudo ./tracker)
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> evening everyone
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> has been a long time actually writing on here
[20:09] <Upu> DL7AD https://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2015
[20:09] <DL7AD> Upu: got it :) thanks
[20:10] <Lunar_Lander> hope all is well
[20:10] <Jededu> Ok
[20:10] <Babs_> oooo, a lot more convenient for me to haul 3kg of blue polystyrene across London and then around the local pubs. Thanks Upu!
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> why 3kg?
[20:11] <DL7AD> Upu: done :)
[20:11] <edmoore> 4kg is too much
[20:11] <edmoore> 2kg is too little
[20:11] <Upu> Super
[20:12] <DL7AD> :D
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[20:13] <Babs_> i take comfort from the fact that no one else has done an SLR, and therefore there are no comparables
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[20:14] <Babs_> unlike the tiny tracker i am building which is kirstie alley like compared with Leobodnar's victoria beckham
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> the SLR flight still is sort of a benchmark which I tell of when people ask me what a balloon can carry mass wise
[20:16] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI_SKY_PLUS after 0310 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI_SKY_PLUS
[20:16] <Babs_> the only benchmark I set was one of weight? There was millions of man hours put in to that to prove that an SLR takes no better pictures than a compact...
[20:16] <Upu> only reason Babs_ is doing a pico is because he can't be arsed carrying all that stuff across London this time
[20:16] <Babs_> fair point Upu
[20:17] <Lunar_Lander> :D
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[20:25] <Jededu> Done daveake same output http://imgur.com/6TGZMmG,6q4TUVn#0
[20:26] <daveake> delete the ssdv file
[20:28] <daveake> /home/pi/pits/tracker/snap.bin
[20:28] <daveake> It's in the repo but shouldn't be
[20:30] <MIG-29> Does anybody know where I can locate rigid film balloons? Or were I could buy polyethylene film to build such balloons?
[20:31] <Upu> no idea
[20:31] <Upu> done some launches before ?
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[20:31] <MIG-29> weather- latex balloons
[20:31] <Upu> ok
[20:31] <edmoore> MIG-29, you can buy PE sheet in lots of places, but vanilla PE isn't much good
[20:32] <MIG-29> yes, I know that polyethylene is used for packaging but it is generally too thick for a high altitude balloon
[20:32] <edmoore> most of the films used for long duration floating are much more specialist and designed to be less permeable
[20:32] <MIG-29> it needs to be less permeable and thin (20-50 microns)
[20:32] <edmoore> you can get uhmwpe as a sort of stepping stone
[20:32] <edmoore> and it's easy to get in those thicknesses
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[20:33] <MIG-29> http://catalog.cshyde.com/viewitems/films/uhmw-pe-film/
[20:33] <MIG-29> the first one is 76 microns thick... not that bad!
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[20:34] <edmoore> mm
[20:34] <edmoore> i'm sure we got some that was about 10 microns
[20:35] <MIG-29> 10 microns would be very good!
[20:35] <edmoore> what size balloon did you have in mind?
[20:35] <edmoore> there are places you can buy pre-made ones but they're not cheap
[20:35] <MIG-29> the current altitude record is set with a balloon that was built using 3.4 microns thick film- if I am not wrong
[20:35] <MIG-29> I was looking for a balloon to carry a 2 kg payload
[20:35] <MIG-29> max. 3 kg
[20:35] <edmoore> to what sort of altitude?
[20:36] <MIG-29> this would mean that a total volume equivalent to a sphere of around 16 meters is needed (I want to exceed 40 km altitude)
[20:36] <edmoore> right
[20:36] <edmoore> so that's fairly substantial
[20:36] <MIG-29> yes... I extrapolated from some results with 3000 grams balloon
[20:36] <MIG-29> they go to about 35 km with 2-3 kg payload and according to manufacturer they expanded to over 12 meters diameter
[20:36] <edmoore> you'd probably have to fabricate a reasonably large bit of equipment to help you fabricate such a balloon from sheet
[20:37] <MIG-29> It is easy to compute the volume needed for a certain altitude and payload but just as a guess I would say around 16 meters diameter should be enough
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> Trained rhino. Reportedly they're great with gores.
[20:37] <edmoore> your altitude will be strong dependant on your film thickness - i suspect the balloon mass will be larger than the payload mass by a big factor
[20:37] <MIG-29> yes
[20:37] <MIG-29> that too
[20:38] <edmoore> i'd probably look to buy something for that sort of mass/altitude combination
[20:38] <MIG-29> it would actually make an interesting exercise to calculate the needed balloon volume given PE properties and payload required to be lifted to the given altitude
[20:38] <edmoore> as that's not easy
[20:38] <edmoore> well it's a few lines of code certainly
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> MIG-29: are you very sure you can't reduce the payload
[20:38] <MIG-29> computing the needed volume is not difficult; however, building the balloon is indeed difficult!
[20:39] <edmoore> yes, my working assumption here is that you know you need this. if you jsut want to get pictures from above 40km then this is a vastly overcomplicated method
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> Not-crap cameras can be gotten in several grams.
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> If you're OK with daylight only.
[20:40] <MIG-29> it is not only for the pictures; it is for a long duration experiment
[20:40] <Babs__> Building a big balloon in a garage is the final frontier for Habbing
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> Getting long duration with a non-rigid envelope is hard
[20:40] <MIG-29> How would one go about "sticking" together the polyethylene film "segments"?
[20:40] <Babs__> I would doff my blue polystyrene cap to that one
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> The term is 'zero pressure' balloons.
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> MIG-29: welding
[20:41] <Babs__> with an iron rather than oxyacetylene
[20:41] <MIG-29> yeah :)
[20:41] <MIG-29> however for thin PE might be... tricky
[20:41] <daveake> jededu The reason you're getting "PI-SKY" as an SSDV payload ID is a) because the payload ID was "PI_SKY_PLUS", b) because SSDV shortened that to 6 characters (PI_SKY), and c) because it converted "_" to "-"
[20:41] <edmoore> ok, so for long duration you'll probably want super-pressure
[20:41] <edmoore> and that is a step change in design complexity at the scale you're talking about
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> MIG-29: you generally reinforce the weld area, and then weld the thicker including the thinner
[20:42] <edmoore> you'll need both good design and construction
[20:42] <Babs__> has anyone done a sky anchor yet?
[20:42] <MIG-29> a zero pressure balloon could achieve long duration
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> Babs__: does a shelf count?
[20:42] <daveake> So, as I said before, kill the tracker, change the payload ID, then start the tracker
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> MIG-29: yes, but that tends to require truly massive scales to do
[20:43] Action: SpeedEvil ponders a laser powered stratoquad.
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> high altitude quads aren't actually completely insane.
[20:44] <MIG-29> the super pressure is also a rigid wall balloon, isn't it?
[20:44] <MIG-29> it just doesn't vent the hellium to the atmosphere, is this correcT?
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> MIG-29: tensile, yes
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> super pressure is a rigid pressurised volume
[20:44] <MIG-29> they claim, raven, that the superpressure could achieve constant altitude... how's that?
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> it maintains altitude by being neutrally bouyant
[20:44] <edmoore> because they become neutrally bouyant
[20:44] <MIG-29> if the density of the atmosphere changes during the night due to lower temperature
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> and not expanding much
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> when external pressure changes
[20:45] <MIG-29> one assumes that hellium also cools down?
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> It is approximately isothermal at night
[20:45] <MIG-29> because otherwise maintaining the same volume in a lower density atmosphere
[20:45] <MIG-29> would generate a drop in altitude
[20:46] <MIG-29> and vice versa maintaining the same volume in a higher density atmosphere would generate an increase in altitude
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> It's constant altitude only in the sense that it's constant density
[20:46] <MIG-29> ok
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> It floats at a constant density. Not a constant height
[20:46] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03EDUPITS after 0312 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EDUPITS
[20:46] <MIG-29> yes
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> (and then only sort of, because it does swell somewhat due to internal pressure due to temperature say)
[20:46] <MIG-29> so it is basically a very large thermometer :)
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> Humididy also mattters
[20:48] <MIG-29> so a super pressure balloon could be also made of polyethylene only that it needs to be thick in order to resist the difference in pressure
[20:51] <MIG-29> it would be nice to design and build such a balloon. basically one would need to compute the needed volume to keep aloft a payload (certain mass) at a certain altitude. if, let's say, for a payload of 2 kg we need a balloon with a diameter of 16 meters then one could build it and inflate it on the ground with the needed amount of hellium to achieve the desired ascent rate. of course balloon mass would also come into calculation.
[20:52] <MIG-29> question is: will there be any pressure difference between the inside of the balloon and the outside of the balloon?
[20:52] <MIG-29> I do not see how there could be any pressure difference...
[20:52] <MIG-29> (at float altitude)
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[20:53] <richardeoin> MIG-29: I attempted to build a super pressure balloon from LDPE a couple of months ago - it was fun but it didn't work well
[20:54] <Jededu> daveake i see, removing snap.bin gives sh:1: ssdv: not found ill do another build tomorrow
[20:55] <Laurenceb> LDPE is practically like a sieve for He and H2
[20:55] <richardeoin> Mmm yes, especially when you apply a pressure differential
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[20:56] <daveake> jededu you don't need to do another build; just restart the tracker program (or reboot)
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[20:56] <MIG-29> richard... what didn't work?
[20:56] <Jededu> I have many times :)
[20:57] <Laurenceb> the pressure differential is pretty insignificant
[20:57] <Laurenceb> its partial pressure that matters
[20:57] <daveake> but you'll only get an error about missing ssdv if you didn't stop the tracker first
[20:57] <richardeoin> The helium leaked pretty rapidly as laurenceb says
[20:57] <richardeoin> here's the altitude plot http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/UBSEDS4#g/altitude
[20:58] <daveake> Just stop the tracker, set the payload ID, restart the tracker. That's it.
[20:58] <MIG-29> UHMW PE seems indeed to be a better option....
[20:58] <Jededu> ok 1 more time :)
[20:58] <MIG-29> but the price is staggering...
[20:59] <Laurenceb> you need the EVOH multifoils
[20:59] <MIG-29> 76 microns film... costs around $14.85 per square meters
[20:59] <Laurenceb> five orders of magnitude better
[20:59] <Laurenceb> theoretical flight time is 10 to 15 years
[20:59] <daveake> Jededu I'm doing it here and it works every time
[21:00] <MIG-29> what are the regular zero-pressure balloons and super pressure balloons manufactured from?
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[21:00] <Laurenceb> google use some sort of custom MWPE formulation
[21:01] <Laurenceb> but they fly at low partial pressure and large size
[21:01] <Laurenceb> still, theoretical flight time is less than 10 months
[21:01] <MIG-29> so using UHMW might not work?\
[21:01] <Laurenceb> it may well work, but its a silly choice
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[21:01] <MIG-29> I found it referenced in couple of balloon flights as a manufacturing material
[21:01] <MIG-29> why silly?
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[21:02] <Laurenceb> Leo and CNSP use PE - EVOH -Nylon6 multifoils made for packaging
[21:02] <MIG-29> just for fun a 16 meter diameter balloon (assuming it is a sphere) would cost 14.85 USD*803.84=
[21:02] <Laurenceb> cheaper and fly until the UV wrecks it or it gets rained on
[21:02] <MIG-29> 11937.024 USD
[21:02] <Laurenceb> lol
[21:02] <MIG-29> wow :) I think I wouldn't afford it
[21:03] <Laurenceb> the multifoils cost practically nothing
[21:03] <Laurenceb> just a bit of a pita to find the right stuff
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[21:03] <Laurenceb> but they are used in literally tons of packaging applications
[21:03] <MIG-29> yes, however you also need the right thickness
[21:03] <MIG-29> not too thick because it is heavy
[21:03] <Laurenceb> yes, as i said the problem is sourcing the right stuff
[21:03] <MIG-29> not to thin because it becomes a sieve
[21:03] <MIG-29> :)
[21:04] <Laurenceb> commercial packaging products is one of those areas where google is unlikely to help you
[21:04] <richardeoin> for google's project loon they appear to have bought their own plant for multilayer films http://www.convertingquarterly.com/industry-news/articles/id/4029/raven-industries-installs-7-layer-blown-film-line.aspx
[21:05] <richardeoin> multilayer films aren't that expensive in volume, I've been quoted about 0.20 USD per square meter
[21:06] <MIG-29> 0.2*803=160 USD for a 16 meter diameter sphere
[21:06] <MIG-29> not that bad!
[21:06] <MIG-29> that I could probably afford! :)
[21:07] <richardeoin> but they deal with large minimum order quantities unfortunately
[21:07] <MIG-29> How large is large in their view? :)
[21:07] <richardeoin> that was for at least 20,000 square meters
[21:07] <MIG-29> that I couldn't afford hahaha
[21:08] <richardeoin> yeah me too haha - plus import duties, shipping etc
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[21:08] <MIG-29> What thickness did they offer you?
[21:08] <Laurenceb> oh wow thats news to me
[21:09] <Laurenceb> i thought it was a simple film
[21:09] <Laurenceb> 7 layer O_o
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[21:09] <Laurenceb> i have some loon samples, but they must be early stuff
[21:09] <richardeoin> Changing over the machines between runs is very difficult apparently, you have to purge all the extruders which generates huge amounts of scrap
[21:09] <Laurenceb> they arent multifoil
[21:09] <Laurenceb> yeah i can imagine
[21:10] <Laurenceb> holy shit
[21:10] <Laurenceb> they can mass produce entire loon balloons in one go with that
[21:10] <richardeoin> I'm just speculating that plant is related to loon.. I have no actual evidence :)
[21:10] <Laurenceb> yeah, this is interesting
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[21:10] <Laurenceb> (EVOH, Nylon
[21:11] <Laurenceb> wow a loon made from that would be interesting
[21:11] <richardeoin> MIG-29: That was for 25 micron apparently, but I'm not entirely sure and didn't investigate further
[21:11] <Laurenceb> would probably fly so long youd be long dead by the time it came down
[21:11] <MIG-29> it could be the right thickness for ballooning
[21:12] <MIG-29> do you still have the contact to that distributor/manufacturer?
[21:12] <Laurenceb> no, not for multifoil
[21:12] <Laurenceb> i know Leo found someone on ebay, but they dont seem to exist anymore
[21:12] <richardeoin> MIG-29: PM me
[21:14] <Laurenceb> something i wanted to look at was UV treatment
[21:14] <Laurenceb> http://www.lenscoloring.com/htm/Solutions/One_Minute_UV.htm
[21:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP3OSJ - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP3OSJ
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[21:27] <Nova2> hey
[21:27] <Nova2> anyone online?
[21:28] <jcoxon> lots of people
[21:28] <DL7AD> yep
[21:28] <Nova2> ive seen all these ppls websites lol
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[21:30] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
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[21:30] <Jededu> the callsign is now 122B no idea where that came from at least its working
[21:39] <jcoxon> hooray my 3d printer isn't completely broken
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[21:42] <richardeoin> yay jcoxon
[21:42] <richardeoin> the university labs have someone who appears to spend his whole time fixing the makerbots
[21:43] <richardeoin> they're not the most bulletproof things
[21:46] <jcoxon> i had to replace some parts of my reprap (of course i printed them)
[21:47] <jcoxon> but it messed all my calibrations
[21:47] <jcoxon> so decided to fully upgrade hte firmware and start again
[21:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MCB - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MCB
[21:48] <jcoxon> can't say that reprap printers are for beginners
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[21:50] <mcbcurator> hey upu, thanks for all your help - balloon is totally transmitting to the map and to ssdv.habhub.
[21:54] <mcbcurator> Also, I'd like to boot the tracker tomorrow early and have it on and tracking as I drive the payload to the launch site. Will that foul up anything with the map or predicted path?
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[22:16] <Upu> you need a fligthr doc mcbcurator
[22:16] <Upu> flight
[22:16] <Upu> then I can approve that]
[22:21] <mcbcurator> already submitted a flight doc.
[22:24] <mcbcurator> dfeff5c0642b1839ccc6171d9bcb03d4
[22:24] <Upu> [23:24] <SpacenearUS> Upu: Flight Museum of the Coastal Bend launch 1 (dfeff5c0642b1839ccc6171d9bcb03d4) has been approved! Good luck
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[22:27] <Upu> right night all
[22:30] <mcbcurator> night
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[22:35] Nick change: lilafisc1 -> lilafisch
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[22:38] <DL7AD> d6es any6ne 2n6w 5f theres a 0ay6r d5fference 5n 0ax7 and 0ax8?
[22:39] <DL7AD> ops
[22:39] <DL7AD> num activated on noteboook
[22:39] <DL7AD> does anyone know if theres a mayor difference between max7 and 8?
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[00:00] --- Fri May 1 2015