highaltitude.log.20150428

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[01:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-43 after 037 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-43
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[06:19] <edmoore> stilldavid, this article is great
[06:19] <edmoore> (reading it properly over breakfast)
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[07:32] <fsphil> "I startled a bearded man" ... "Luckily he's a ham radio operator"
[07:32] <fsphil> was there any doubt?
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[08:15] <sq5kvs> that is better
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[08:51] <LunarWork> hello
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[08:53] <sq5kvs> Hell
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[09:07] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Heaven!
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[09:22] <fsphil> it's a place on earth
[09:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> No where near here then ;-)
[09:27] <daveake> Carlisle?
[09:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Settle
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[09:30] <gonzo___> I wouldn't settle for that
[09:33] <Laurenceb__> edmoore: ping
[09:34] <edmoore> pong
[09:34] <Laurenceb__> can I ask you some pyromanic questions?
[09:34] <Laurenceb__> im thinking about rocket ignition
[09:34] <edmoore> can't promise to be sueful but fire away
[09:34] <Laurenceb__> the cesaroni reloads use a black powder ignition grain
[09:34] <edmoore> useful*
[09:35] <Laurenceb__> im wondering about smearing grease on it and having a non rotating ignitor
[09:35] <Laurenceb__> on the end of a CF tube
[09:35] <Laurenceb__> grease as I'd worry about friction igniting it
[09:35] <Laurenceb__> do you think this would stand any chance of working?
[09:36] <edmoore> so having the ignition grain spin relative to the e-match?
[09:36] <Laurenceb__> yes
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> sandpaper+match
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> (not seriously)
[09:36] <edmoore> i don't know
[09:36] <edmoore> is the viscosity of the greese low enough?
[09:37] <Laurenceb__> yes
[09:37] <SpeedEvil> What's wrong with the existing system of inductive - does it complicate the suspension?
[09:37] <Laurenceb__> but id worry about it effecting the black powder
[09:37] <edmoore> yeah
[09:37] <Laurenceb__> SpeedEvil: its tricky to combine with air bearings
[09:37] <SpeedEvil> ah
[09:37] <edmoore> you don't want any barriers to heat transfer into the BP grain really
[09:37] <Laurenceb__> and i might have to resort to air
[09:37] <edmoore> just being in low pressure is likely to make it a losing battle
[09:37] <Laurenceb__> yeah :S
[09:37] <Laurenceb__> oh shit
[09:38] <Laurenceb__> i forgot about that lol
[09:38] <edmoore> yeah
[09:38] <Laurenceb__> yeah it needs silicone nozzle plug, impossible
[09:38] <edmoore> most low pressure ignition systems are in sealed solid motors
[09:38] <Laurenceb__> other option is ignition by the payload
[09:38] <Laurenceb__> thats a bit dangerous, rocket is permanently "live"
[09:38] <edmoore> i would strongly consider that
[09:39] <edmoore> it's dangerous either way
[09:39] <Laurenceb__> i guess it could have a protruding FPC solder tab
[09:39] <edmoore> or at least, no way requires any less careful thought and testing than the other, because both involve rocket motors on balloons
[09:39] <Laurenceb__> to arm it
[09:39] <edmoore> unless you are working for the register
[09:39] <Laurenceb__> lol
[09:40] <Laurenceb__> i think i have some level of competence
[09:40] <edmoore> in which case let's garden shed it and hope no-one gets hurt
[09:40] <Laurenceb__> so thats a no
[09:40] <Laurenceb__> anyhow, atm air bearings is a backup
[09:40] <edmoore> but yeah i would consider ignition from the rocket
[09:40] <Laurenceb__> yeah I'll go for that if i have to resort to air bearings
[09:40] <Laurenceb__> atm I'm going to try UHMWPE bearings next
[09:41] <Laurenceb__> its very close to working atm, but just the wrong side of working :-/
[09:41] <edmoore> heh been a while since i've seen that stuff
[09:41] <edmoore> we used it for the very early zero-pressure balloon experiments
[09:41] <Laurenceb__> "PTFE is low friction" is a lie
[09:41] <edmoore> called in oompha-woompa
[09:41] <Laurenceb__> PTFE is low friction at high speed and very high load
[09:42] <Laurenceb__> my PTFE friction coefficient is about 0.3
[09:42] <Laurenceb__> UHMWPE is ~0.11 under the same conditions
[09:42] <SpeedEvil> 'very high load'
[09:42] <SpeedEvil> can you fake it by having a tiny tiny bearing?
[09:42] <Laurenceb__> as in ~200MPa
[09:43] <Laurenceb__> maybe, but thats be hard to build
[09:43] <SpeedEvil> 200MPa? Isn't that damn close to cold flow
[09:43] <Laurenceb__> exactly
[09:43] <Laurenceb__> everyone quotes PTFE friction at max possible loading
[09:44] <Laurenceb__> its a massive con :-/
[09:44] <Laurenceb__> really i need to talk to an expert
[09:44] <SpeedEvil> Big slidy?
[09:44] <Laurenceb__> as the friction losses are completely trivial
[09:44] <Laurenceb__> but the friction destabilises the bearing
[09:45] <Laurenceb__> theres probably a "pro" way to solve this problem
[09:45] <Laurenceb__> without using brute force and air bearings
[09:45] <SpeedEvil> I go back to my original suggestion of a tiny bearing on top of the rocket
[09:45] <Laurenceb__> but I've literally never worked with high speed bearings before :-/
[09:45] <Laurenceb__> wtf
[09:46] <Laurenceb__> its _kind of_ in the way
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> with a mounting that pops off as it comes under pressure
[09:46] <SpeedEvil> you take the bearing along.
[09:47] <sq5kvs> I worked with 12 Gpa :D
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[09:50] <Laurenceb__> the main problem isnt finding a way to install bearings
[09:51] <Laurenceb__> its making it not precess and not shake itself to pieces
[09:52] <SpeedEvil> Oh - you're relying on compliance and bearing flex to compensate for balance assymetry - I forgot
[09:52] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[09:53] <SpeedEvil> Why did you consider balancing wasn't possible?
[09:55] <Laurenceb__> balancing is only possible in a static configuration
[09:55] <Laurenceb__> as it slides out, the balance changes
[09:55] <Laurenceb__> it ends up "chattering" unless you are very careful
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[10:06] <Laurenceb__> you can actually do a lot with a 2L pop bottle filled with 150psi oxygen...
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[10:07] <SpeedEvil> Can it precess that fast as it's sliding out? I'm assuming the bearing disconnects in the first 5mm or so of travel.
[10:07] <SpeedEvil> And has plenty of gap on the sides
[10:10] <Laurenceb__> i guess designs involving wedges might be feasible
[10:11] <Laurenceb__> i havent investigated
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[10:24] <gonzo___> does the igniter have to be rotating? Or could it not be at the base of the launch tube? (Unless I am totally misunderstanding the system)
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[10:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PI_CE2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI_CE2
[10:29] <Laurenceb__> gonzo___: for cesaroni reloads the ignitor needs to be up inside the fuel grain
[10:30] <gonzo___> ok
[10:31] <gonzo___> We have lit the hobby motors by having a bit of brass tube filled with shotgun powder, ignited with a fusewire at the top. It creates a pencil jet that is directed up the 'ole to ignite the motor.
[10:32] <gonzo___> just piddly D motors
[10:32] <gonzo___> that was after lots of failures with commercial match head ignitors
[10:33] <gonzo___> I even resorted to pouring powder into the motor and pushing a straw full of it up the hole as a fuse
[10:34] <gonzo___> though the time delay you get acn be a bit indeterminate if lighting by hand!
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[11:53] <Laurenceb__> [temp_bins,temp_indices]=histc(temps,[10:0.25:40]);
[11:54] <Laurenceb__> erm
[11:54] <Laurenceb__> http://www.spaceflight101live.com/progress-m-27m-launch-to-docking.html
[11:54] <Laurenceb__> top right
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> 12RPM ish.
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[11:55] <SpeedEvil> Interesting question as to if the attitude thrusters can corect that even if it's got telemetry
[12:00] <edmoore> i have come in late - what's happening?
[12:02] <edmoore> nvm audio now
[12:14] <sq5kvs> So, storm season opened !
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[12:17] <sq5kvs> guys do You planning any flight in next weekend ?
[12:17] <sq5kvs> in schedule I can see the serenity only
[12:20] <edmoore> It's a long weekend in the UK
[12:20] <edmoore> suspect some people might be holidaying
[12:22] <sq5kvs> so, the same in Poland. So it's a lot of time to start something :)
[12:23] <Dread> hjyup
[12:24] <sq5kvs> TOM sp9uob did some tests in last weekend, but nobody know what will happen next :)
[12:24] <Dread> i would try to setup on vhf finally
[12:24] <Dread> sq5kvs: next baloon? ;D
[12:25] <edmoore> i'm away on hols
[12:25] <edmoore> tho i want to start building my home electronics work bench
[12:25] <sq5kvs> definitely. But what balloo :)
[12:25] <sq5kvs> :)
[12:26] <edmoore> oh i haven't launched a balloon for years
[12:26] <edmoore> i'm useless
[12:26] <edmoore> why am I even here? so many mysteries
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[12:28] <sq5kvs> no one is useless
[12:28] <craag> SpacenearUS auto kicks you after too much time without launching right?
[12:28] <Laurenceb__> heh me too
[12:28] <sq5kvs> even as compost :D
[12:28] <Laurenceb__> i was going to launch a rockoon
[12:28] <Laurenceb__> but then i realised i dont know how to
[12:31] <sq5kvs> don't be discouraged :)
[12:32] <edmoore> i'm having fun learning about lots of other non-ballooney things atm
[12:32] <sq5kvs> like me
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[12:33] <sq5kvs> I have few months in this workplace where I am now, to learn some interesting things :)
[12:33] <Laurenceb__> I'm having "fun" working as a matlab monkey
[12:33] <sq5kvs> and next I would leave this place :D
[12:35] <sq5kvs> Laurenceb__: So, You are very specialized engineer :)
[12:35] <Laurenceb__> you mean a generic "engineer"
[12:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EDUPIC_Alt1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EDUPIC_Alt1
[12:36] <Dread> okay, antennas detached
[12:36] <sq5kvs> Laurenceb__: ritht !
[12:37] <sq5kvs> ritht
[12:37] <sq5kvs> .. right!
[12:38] <edmoore> i'm pleased i don't have to matlab anymore
[12:39] <staylo> Hmm, interesting about the Soyuz / Progress launch issues. Is there anything new about the Progress vehicle?
[12:40] <russss> this news just in https://twitter.com/SpaceflightNow/status/593031546724085760
[12:42] <Laurenceb__> no shit sherlock
[12:44] <Laurenceb__> http://pbx.mine.nu/dvhs/logo.png
[12:44] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
[12:45] <russss> still going
[12:45] <Dread> Laurenceb__: the hell :DD
[12:46] <Laurenceb__> i know right
[12:46] <Laurenceb__> K6RPT-11 circumnavigation
[12:46] <Laurenceb__> this is getting too easy
[12:46] <edmoore> when i get to the south pole i'm going to run around it 50 times
[12:46] <Laurenceb__> "via Pigeon" O_o
[12:46] <edmoore> then i'll beat all the circumnavigation records
[12:47] <russss> APRS over avian carrier
[12:47] <Laurenceb__> heh
[12:47] <Laurenceb__> i like K6RPT-11
[12:47] <Laurenceb__> custom Nylon/EVOH/PE foil with H2 and solar only
[12:48] <Laurenceb__> 12.8Km, it could fly practically for ever
[12:48] <edmoore> i want someone to do it at high altitudes
[12:48] <Laurenceb__> it gets harder once you get past ~12km
[12:48] <Laurenceb__> as you need proper seams
[12:48] <edmoore> yes
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[12:49] <sq5kvs> edmoore: but south pole is at least few thousand meters above sea level? Or i'm wrong
[12:49] <edmoore> it doesn't scale nicely mechanically
[12:49] <Laurenceb__> also UV kills en envelope past ~15km
[12:49] <sq5kvs> so, in fact, You did :D
[12:49] <Laurenceb__> *the
[12:49] <Laurenceb__> i suspect optimal altitude is 13 to 14km
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[12:51] <Laurenceb__> when i sufficiently bored im going to try the UV treatment used on glasses on some foil samples
[12:51] <sq5kvs> funny
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[12:51] <Laurenceb__> somewhere i have a thor labs spectrometer...
[12:52] <sq5kvs> I was trying to find the altitude of south pole in google earth but .. there is 0m :D
[12:52] <edmoore> Laurenceb__, i acquired me a nice scope
[12:52] <Laurenceb__> what make?
[12:52] <edmoore> tek 3104 with everything unlocked (hardware 3GHz spec-an, 16ch LA, all the serial decode and triggering options)
[12:52] <Laurenceb__> oh nice
[12:53] <Laurenceb__> i have the same one
[12:53] <edmoore> bitch
[12:53] <edmoore> i love it
[12:53] <Laurenceb__> i took the naughty route :P
[12:53] <edmoore> it's prompted getting my home lab together properly
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[12:53] <Laurenceb__> meaning mine also has lots of features
[12:54] <sq5kvs> :o https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3038/2363693564_11d5911440.jpg
[12:54] <edmoore> yes i suspect all my features were got by the same route
[12:54] <edmoore> but i am very happy with it
[12:54] <edmoore> also the 4 probes
[12:54] <edmoore> 1GHz passive probes have my respect
[12:55] <Laurenceb__> i need to fix the FFT on mine
[12:55] <edmoore> what's wrong with it?
[12:55] <Laurenceb__> after "upgrading" it draws a solid noise floor
[12:56] <Laurenceb__> so it looks pretty but i cant get the last few dB out of it
[12:56] <edmoore> this is the maths fft on normal channels?
[12:58] <Laurenceb__> yes
[13:00] <Laurenceb__> bbl, matlab calls
[13:00] <edmoore> hmm i will investigate on mine
[13:00] <edmoore> i've always found scope math fft functions to be so horrible that i usually don't bother
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[13:24] <russss> progress onboard video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMiNjHjpunU
[13:26] <russss> "Multiple rate sensor failures" apparently
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[13:27] <Laurenceb__> heh its spinning faster than the osd can update
[13:27] <Laurenceb__> actually
[13:28] <Laurenceb__> yeah all those zeros are bad
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> I do wonder if this is yet another case of 'we screwed the rate gyro on backwards'
[13:28] <SpeedEvil> And it spun itself up until it pinned the gyro
[13:39] <edmoore> would be very russian
[13:46] <Reb-SM3ULC> pse approach the station with caution.. ;)
[13:49] <sq5kvs> BTW
[13:53] <sq5kvs> I heard that in the last weeks, there were a lot of fires Siberian forests
[13:55] <sq5kvs> so, announced state of emergency
[13:56] <sq5kvs> (siberia is in russia, maybe someone doesn't know)
[13:57] <sq5kvs> and, besides state of emergency the also introduce prohibition :D
[13:57] <Ian_> Finding them might be quite difficult of course.
[14:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N0MPM-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N0MPM-11
[14:15] <staylo> Doesn't look like it's in a fit state to approach any station. Well, maybe Space Station V.
[14:18] <sq5kvs> They need docking station
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[16:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DG8AR_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DG8AR_chase
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[16:17] <Lunar_Lander> hello again
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[17:10] <infaddict> After 20 mins of battling with desoldering braid, solder sucker and pliers, I managed to get my dodgy SD board taken off. Slight damage to 1 pad but all still works great!
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[17:12] <infaddict> So my board is done! http://i.imgur.com/iz0EAvb.jpg
[17:13] <Ian_> You have learned how difficult they are to get off easily though . . . Good that it's still working OK
[17:15] <infaddict> yep Ian_ didnt think it would be that hard.
[17:15] <infaddict> the damaged pad was on the top of board, so still a nice join to the lower pad
[17:16] <infaddict> tested it and works great. now to put it in the garden for a full GPS test with everything running. onwards and upwards to fitting in my payload box ;-)
[17:18] <Ian_> Just make sure you recover it on your first flight . . . Did you catch Nova2 last night? Instant gratification teenager, with little or no respect and a bit blatant about it.
[17:19] <infaddict> nope i wasnt on last night - sounds like i missed a treat!
[17:19] <infaddict> has he launched or looking for help?
[17:19] Action: infaddict goes to check logs
[17:19] <Ian_> Why do such people want to run lots of power illegally, break altitude records and . . . drum roll . . . stream video from a balloon. Yep a real treat to make your sensibilities cringe.
[17:20] <Ian_> I think that the idea came to him like a revelatioon in his sweetie break :)
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[17:33] <Reb-SM3ULC> infaddict: :)
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[17:35] <j0nnymac> helloo
[17:35] <Reb-SM3ULC> Ian_: interesting to see these naive ones pass by...
[17:36] <Reb-SM3ULC> j0nnymac: hi
[17:37] <j0nnymac> he there - im sourcing launch sites in hampshire - wondering if there any recommended locations?
[17:37] <infaddict> hey Reb-SM3ULC
[17:37] <infaddict> read the log. what a ****
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[17:39] <Reb-SM3ULC> infaddict: i was around whan he dropped in and started pretty ok, but....
[17:42] <Ian_> Definitely at a rebelious age .
[17:42] <infaddict> disregard for the law is one thing, but being cheeky and rude about level of help (when he actually got a lot of help) is out of order
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[17:44] <infaddict> gps question. can the position of sats over time mean that one week it can take <5 mins for full lock and few weeks later take 15-18 mins using same equipment?
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[17:44] <infaddict> i.e. the almanac takes longer perhaps
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[17:48] <SpeedEvil> For a cold start?
[17:49] <infaddict> yes. appreciate cold start specs can be 20+ minutes. just interested how it used to be around 5 mins now much longer.
[17:49] <infaddict> wondered if sats move around and some time of month its longer to lock
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> 'no'
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> If you have an adequate signal, it shouldn't be a problem.
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> Problems occur if you have a dodgy signal.
[17:50] <infaddict> ok thx
[17:50] <christopherlee> Evening, after some advice for a possible an antenna for tracking from my home. My previous tracking was done using just a whip antenna(will still be great for the car) but would like to track existing flights from home.
[17:50] <infaddict> breadboard was around 5 min lock. now on PCB (hanging over edge, no copper near it) and now 15-20 mins.
[17:50] <edmoore> watson w-50
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> infaddict: Where is this - inside?
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> r rather - in the same position that it was at first test?
[17:51] <infaddict> nope open garden with no big buildings around
[17:51] <infaddict> yes same place as before
[17:51] <edmoore> christopherlee, my previous was at you
[17:52] <infaddict> just to get UTC time now takes 6-7 mins (was previously 1 minute)
[17:52] <edmoore> bad sat constellation?
[17:52] <edmoore> new interference source?
[17:53] <edmoore> you've damaged the front end by touching the antenna (static)?
[17:53] <christopherlee> edmoore: cheers, any problems mounting this along side tv aerial? Not that i fancy going up on roof.
[17:53] <edmoore> nope
[17:53] <edmoore> shouldn't be structurally, electromagnetically or planningly
[17:53] <infaddict> thx edmoore. possibly slightly closer to radio than it was on breadboard but nothing major. hope i havent damaged it. never touched the chip antenna directly.
[17:53] <edmoore> tho don't have the literally right by each other
[17:54] <christopherlee> May even take the tv one down as not used.
[17:55] <christopherlee> Just need to sell the idea to wife
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[18:07] <Ian_> christopherlee Watson are normally more cost effective than Diamond in the collinear antenna stakes. They each make fairly comparable models /
[18:09] <Ian_> Watson W50 2m/70cm 4.5/7.2dB. Watson W300 2m/70cm 4.5/9dB . . . not sure if that is dBi or dBd, but we are comparing two collinears from the same manufacturer/
[18:09] <Ian_> Obviously the extra gain is at the expense of a slightly larger radiator.
[18:10] <Ian_> Avoid Tri-band collinears like the plague.
[18:12] <Ian_> Best height around 20ft+ at the base of the antenna. Cost is obviously another parameter that comes with the extra gain. Given that you may well pick up an Amateur radio ricket in the next year or two, if you haven't already, spend just the once. and go for the W300.
[18:13] <Ian_> If you feel exceptionally rich then you might opt for the Diamond series. The specs of both are available on the Internet. I have a W300 on swaged poles at 20ft with the end on the ground and a bit of washing line securing it at 7ft
[18:14] <Ian_> It's been threatening the greenhouse for more than ten years and the poles will be replaced this summer and will be additionally guyed. At the moment it bends alarmingly in the wind.
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[18:27] <christopherlee> Ian_: thanks
[18:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EDUPITS - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EDUPITS
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[18:32] <christopherlee> Do you need planning permission if its longer than 100cm?
[18:33] <fsphil> Ian_: the tri-band ones bad? I had considered replacing mine with one that does 6m
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[18:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SM0ULC_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SM0ULC_chase
[18:45] <Ian_> christopherlee - sorry just had my tea Mmmmm. The tri-band collinears perform badly. The point of failure is that the length of the radials is too short for the 6m band.
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[18:46] <Ian_> If you put on radials to accommodate 6m then you have a much better antenna, but as it comes they are all severely compromised. I would have thought that over the last few years the lesson would have been learned and longer radials supplied, but apparently not.
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[18:49] <Ian_> http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/7492 this is not an untypical comment and supports what I have just said. I Googled "triband collinear problems".
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[18:51] <sennet> hello folks
[18:51] <sennet> anyone home?
[18:52] <Ian_> Good evening.
[18:52] <sennet> Good Evening Ian_
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[18:53] <Ian_> Question, answer or conversation?
[18:53] <sennet> We are very new to HA ballooning and wondered if you or anyone on this had experience with usuing hydrogen gas as opposed to helium
[18:54] <sennet> definetly a question sorry Ian
[18:54] <sennet> can't spell either
[18:55] <Ian_> Hydrogen is king, but of course comes with risks with regard to transportation, storage and use. But it's the best and cheaper than Helium.
[18:55] <sennet> We were planning on releasing a HA weather balloon using hydrogen gas and apart from the ground handling safety requirements we are not sure of the CAA restrictions
[18:56] <Ian_> Helium is what most people tend to use. If you are going for an altitude record then Hydrogen is the gas of choice.
[18:56] <Ian_> I take it that you are in the UK?
[18:56] <sennet> yes Central Scotland
[18:56] <sennet> near Glasgow
[18:57] <sennet> obviously the launch site will be outside controlled airspace
[18:58] <Ian_> If your 'complete system' will not exceed a 2m sphere at any point in it's flight then it's a Pico Balloon and almost totally unregulated.
[18:59] <sennet> we have one more complication :)
[18:59] <Ian_> If it's going to exceed a 2m sphere, then you will need to apply for a NOTAM (NoticeTo AirMen) and a waiver. It takes a good month to organise and will likely need a bit of chasing in the final days.
[19:00] <sennet> one of our stretch goals is to maximise flight time & we have someone in the team working on a pressure relief valve for the neck of the balloon. Payload recovery is optional
[19:01] <Ian_> No NOTAM, no flight. If your launch site is established then the wheels may turn a little easier. You seem to have a grasp of the fact that out in the sticks away from flight corridors etc. is likely to be the better bet.
[19:01] <sennet> but I'm worried about the implications if this ball of hydrogen gas should decend intact
[19:02] <Ian_> Sounds like a larger than 2m option . . . Ha ha. It only comes down when the balloon pops. No chance of recycling the gas, or blowing someone to kindom come on landing.
[19:03] <sennet> its the latter I'm worried about
[19:03] <sennet> :)
[19:03] <Ian_> daveake, upu, rocketboy et al are better positioned to advise you.
[19:05] <Ian_> I think that your balloon will only come down after bursting, unless your relief valve does an exceptional job. I don't think that it is much of a risk. More of a risk if you have numpties at the launch. Handled 'properly' there is little problem.
[19:05] <sennet> we have an ATCO on the team which helps with the notams :)
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[19:06] <Ian_> Always good to have an ATC specialist to help with the ropes.
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[19:07] <Ian_> |wiki hydrogen
[19:07] <Ian_> !|wiki hydrogen
[19:07] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[19:07] <Ian_> |wiki hydrogen
[19:07] <pc1pcl> !wiki hydrogen
[19:07] <SpacenearUS> 03pc1pcl: Wiki page 03hydrogen (guides) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:hydrogen
[19:07] <Ian_> . . . finally . . . :)
[19:08] <pc1pcl> voila
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[19:08] <sennet> excellent thanks
[19:08] <sennet> having a read now
[19:08] <Ian_> Thanks pc1pcl obviously my fingers were having a "moment"
[19:10] <pc1pcl> no problem ;)
[19:11] <edmoore> "UKHAS don't advise the use of Hydrogen in balloon flights"
[19:11] <edmoore> is that true?
[19:11] <edmoore> and since when has UKHAS had a collective voice?
[19:11] <edmoore> it doesn't
[19:11] <Ian_> The bit that isn't in the wiki is that the valve on a hydrogen tank should not be cracked to blow away any dust . . . that way static becomes a problem and BOOM
[19:12] <Ian_> edmoore, we listen to the voice of reason . . .
[19:12] <edmoore> it probably won't boom
[19:12] <edmoore> just burn
[19:12] <edmoore> might even blow itself out unless you get unlucky on the mixing
[19:12] <Ian_> That from a guy that makes gases burn FAST . . . :)
[19:12] <edmoore> yes
[19:12] <edmoore> but having carefully calculated the momentum flux ratio at the mixing boundary
[19:12] <russss> heh
[19:13] <Ian_> At least if I think it might go boom, I am likely to be extra vigilant . . . numbers, numbers!
[19:13] <russss> if it's outside you'll be fine
[19:13] <sennet> I think i'm swaying towards helium
[19:14] <edmoore> i'd just wear google or a face mask
[19:14] <edmoore> and long sleeves
[19:14] <Upu> Ian_ it is on the wiki
[19:14] <edmoore> then you'll basically be cool if something flashes
[19:14] <Ian_> Probably wise. Thanks Upu
[19:14] <sennet> the gas will need to flow through the relief valve and this is an unknown risk
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[19:14] <Upu> https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:hydrogen?s[]=hydrogen
[19:15] <daveake> h2 and a release valve?
[19:15] <Upu> fair point Ed
[19:15] <daveake> sounds like a recipe to land a semi-inflated balloon in someone's garden whilst they're BBQing
[19:15] <Ian_> That's the one we were just reading
[19:15] <edmoore> it should really just link to this http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lk7tqmRvi71qfs0fco1_1280.png
[19:15] <Ian_> ^ ^ ^
[19:15] <Upu> lol
[19:15] <Upu> fixed anyway
[19:16] <edmoore> i suppose language warning
[19:16] <edmoore> if you're into that sort of thing
[19:16] <edmoore> this is a family irc chan afterall
[19:17] <sennet> "sounds like a recipe to land a semi-inflated balloon in someone's garden whilst they're BBQin" <- thats my biggest worry :)
[19:18] <mfa298> Personally I'd be wary of anything filled with hydrogen that could come down partially inflated. We know how normal payloads are attracted to trees so no doubt a H2 filled balloon will be attracted to the nearest BBQ
[19:19] <edmoore> i probably concur with the views here if landing a partially inflated balloon is a real possibility
[19:19] <edmoore> especially if you're either not that experienced with hab or that used to designing safe systems
[19:19] <sennet> cheers for your help tonight folks, gonna speak to the lads and probably switch to helium on the back of this
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> Hydrogen is possibly reasonable several launches in
[19:21] <mfa298> sennet: it's well worth hanging around here (for you and the team) whilst putting things together as there's a wealth of experience to tap into
[19:21] <mfa298> how far have you got with tracking systems (what are you planning on doing ?)
[19:22] <Ian_> Wise move. used by the well experienced when they need the extra altitude. For a floater you are probably looking for 12 to 21km altitude I guess.
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[19:22] <Ian_> Stay in touch and test everything fully.
[19:30] <edmoore> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQvpK9cl0No
[19:30] <edmoore> you see the hydrogen is not really the issue, that burns clean and quick
[19:30] <edmoore> the latex is a bit fugly tho
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[19:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ZR6LJK_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ZR6LJK_chase
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[19:44] <jcoxon> UKHAS Conference 2015 has been announced...
[19:44] <jcoxon> https://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2015
[19:45] <edmoore> oh i'm giving a talk
[19:45] <edmoore> news to me
[19:46] <jcoxon> edmoore, you volunteered!
[19:46] <edmoore> i replied to an email from steve a bit ago asking if i'd got any old notes and pics and things
[19:46] <edmoore> said i'd help
[19:47] <edmoore> that was the first and last contact on the matter!
[19:47] <edmoore> it's fine, there's a good talk's worth of stuff there
[19:47] <jcoxon> i'm sure there was an irc conversation
[19:47] <edmoore> nope
[19:47] <jcoxon> i remember being a part of it
[19:47] <edmoore> i don't
[19:47] <jcoxon> well you're talk will be excellent
[19:47] <jcoxon> your*
[19:48] <edmoore> of course it will
[19:49] <Laurenceb> oh UCL, nice
[19:49] <Laurenceb> uh ho
[19:49] <Laurenceb> I'll have to get writing
[19:49] <edmoore> i found an old hdd today
[19:49] <edmoore> from like 2007
[19:50] <edmoore> hoping if it still works it might have some old interesting ukhas things
[19:50] <jcoxon> edmoore, i've got loads of old stuff
[19:50] <jcoxon> if you need
[19:50] <edmoore> yeah
[19:50] <jcoxon> edmoore, did you see David Millers email
[19:50] <mfa298> Laurenceb: it's fine, you've got 3.5 months before you have to start thinking about panicing about writing a presentation
[19:50] <edmoore> will be a useful exercise to just collate everything we've got
[19:50] <Laurenceb> heh
[19:50] <edmoore> also laurence
[19:51] <Laurenceb> mfa298: I feel like I'm at work
[19:51] <danielsaul> edmoore: I've told several people they're doing talks, no choice :P
[19:51] <edmoore> lol
[19:51] <edmoore> jcoxon, who was around then but not now?
[19:51] <jcoxon> danielsaul, can we do soldering at the venue?
[19:52] <edmoore> people like mc (mike castle)
[19:52] <jcoxon> edmoore, thats a bit morbid
[19:52] <edmoore> lol
[19:52] <Laurenceb> http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/58890579.jpg
[19:52] <edmoore> mr palliative
[19:52] <jcoxon> its is what i do
[19:52] <danielsaul> jcoxon: I've certainly done soldering in the lobby before... whether we're actually allowed is another matter
[19:53] <edmoore> but srsly
[19:53] <Laurenceb> now if back to wondering if i should take up that job offer at ucl... one slight extra advantage = less far to travel :P
[19:54] <edmoore> ucl is nice
[19:54] <edmoore> do you want to live in london?
[19:54] <Laurenceb> no lol
[19:54] <edmoore> the List of Launches on the wiki has gaps
[19:54] <edmoore> from the v early days
[19:55] <edmoore> like when mc used to post payloads for us to lauch
[19:55] <edmoore> with the funny hybrid morse
[19:55] <Laurenceb> im thinking of getting involved in their time resolved optical functional brain imager
[19:55] <danielsaul> Laurenceb: Youve got a job offer at ucl?
[19:55] <Laurenceb> its a cool project.... if its not overhyped, need to make my mind up
[19:55] <Laurenceb> I need to get my life organised lol
[19:56] <tweetBot> @jamescoxon: Ticket to #UKHAS 2015 Conference purchased, Sat 22nd August at UCL, London. More info: https://t.co/zIhwLkzj9b Great day about HABs and more
[19:56] <danielsaul> Laurenceb: What dept is that?
[19:56] <Laurenceb> BORL
[19:56] <edmoore> sounds like net slang
[19:57] <Laurenceb> heh
[19:57] <danielsaul> Cool :)
[19:58] <arko> \o/ yay ukhas 2015
[19:58] <Laurenceb> any idea what sort of rocketry stuff adam will be discussing?
[19:59] <edmoore> probably cusf
[19:59] <edmoore> martlet2
[19:59] <Laurenceb> ah
[19:59] <edmoore> or maybe what gets launched at Big Range 2015?
[19:59] <edmoore> i dunno
[19:59] <edmoore> will let him answer :)
[19:59] <Laurenceb> ok, so regular stuff
[19:59] <Laurenceb> no clash then :P
[19:59] <edmoore> i kinda wan to do a talk about my rocket stuff at some point
[20:00] <jcoxon> arko, you coming?
[20:00] <arko> jcoxon: gonna try :)
[20:00] <arko> depends how the new job at jpl goes
[20:00] <danielsaul> He was hoping we might have the conf later so he could talk about their launch out in black rock, not sure what he'll do now since the conf is before that
[20:00] <arko> need to negociate the planned vacatoin
[20:00] <edmoore> is that a medecine?
[20:01] <arko> vacation*
[20:01] <arko> or
[20:01] <arko> "holiday"
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[20:05] <jcoxon> arko, :-)
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[20:07] <edmoore> thanks arko
[20:07] <arko> :P
[20:07] <arko> ukhas is probably my favorite conference
[20:07] <Upu> be great if you can come again arko
[20:07] <arko> err.. favourite*
[20:07] <Upu> Appreciate its a fair drive
[20:07] <arko> lol
[20:08] <arko> oh neat, its at london college
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[20:08] <arko> closer from heathrow at least
[20:08] <arko> to*
[20:08] <arko> i might just a uk only trip again
[20:08] <arko> make it short
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[20:08] <arko> i dont want to take off too much time from the new job
[20:09] <jcoxon> arko, welcome to stay at ours if you want to escape london
[20:09] <edmoore> it's for science, at least
[20:09] <arko> jcoxon: thanks :)
[20:09] <arko> edmoore: yes! im gonna look into seeing if i can get them to pay for it :P
[20:09] <arko> i doubt it
[20:09] <arko> but a lot of people do that
[20:09] <arko> for science
[20:09] <arko> oh score, aug 21st is RDO
[20:09] <arko> err day off
[20:10] <arko> so i bet i can work it out
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[20:11] <Jededu> startx
[20:12] <arko> lol
[20:12] <jcoxon> Jededu, wrong console
[20:12] <Jededu> xstartx
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[20:12] <arko> how you doing jcoxon?
[20:12] <Jededu> startx
[20:12] <jcoxon> arko, not bad thanks
[20:12] <Vaizki> pkill -9 X
[20:12] <jcoxon> though have an interview tomorrow which isn't cool
[20:13] <arko> oh?
[20:13] <arko> not cool?
[20:13] <arko> good luck :P ?
[20:13] <jcoxon> well its stressful
[20:13] <arko> heh, i feel ya man
[20:14] <arko> i had an 8 hour interview on friday for my dream job
[20:14] <jcoxon> eek
[20:14] <arko> the prep was far more stressful
[20:14] <arko> the interview was great
[20:14] <arko> im sure you'll do well :)
[20:14] <jcoxon> i've not really prepped which isn't great
[20:14] <arko> :|
[20:14] <jcoxon> i've already got a job so its not vital
[20:14] <arko> heh
[20:14] <jcoxon> (a different job)
[20:15] <jcoxon> arko, been doing ukhas stuff
[20:15] <arko> :)
[20:15] <jcoxon> ukhasnet stuff rather
[20:16] <arko> very nice, im interested to see how the net has grown
[20:16] <jcoxon> slowly
[20:16] <jcoxon> need more nodes...
[20:17] <arko> hah, yesss
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[20:20] <Jededu> jcoxon Wrong keyboard :/
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[21:55] <chrisstubbs> btw the * next to the student concessionary option on the conference wiki page doesn't go anywhere
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[22:00] <Upu> *be honest
[22:05] <chrisstubbs> Cool :)
[22:10] <j0nnymac> hello
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[23:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9YMN - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9YMN
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[00:00] --- Wed Apr 29 2015