highaltitude.log.20150419

[00:01] <fsphil> yea, launched: http://ssdv.habhub.org/MTG003
[00:01] <fsphil> looks like a C328-style serial camera
[00:02] <amell> looks like the outback to me
[00:03] <fsphil> it certainly is
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[00:09] <fsphil> little glitch in the jpeg now and then
[00:09] <fsphil> hopefully not an ssdv bug
[00:12] <fsphil> ooh hi-resolution mode
[00:12] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03MTG004 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MTG004
[00:13] <Ian_> amell, you could always save on the postage and collect instead :)
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[03:21] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WB8ELK-1 after 038 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-1
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[06:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0317 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
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[06:47] <SA6BSS-Mike> thats nice, k6rpt west of north portugal/spain :)
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[10:22] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 0317 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
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[11:07] <Laurenceb> attn edmoore: rocketlab.co.nz
[11:07] <Laurenceb> still silly tho :P
[11:07] <edmoore> i know about them
[11:10] <Laurenceb> when i did the numbers, its not really a very smart idea
[11:10] <Laurenceb> surprising how close to workable it is tho
[11:10] <edmoore> you can probably live with the isp reduction on an expendable
[11:12] <Laurenceb> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11432396
[11:13] <Laurenceb> wow these guys are serious
[11:13] <edmoore> the amount of journalistic confuse is enought to make you sick in your mouth
[11:14] <edmoore> they even still insist on calling them turbopumps
[11:14] <Laurenceb> heh
[11:15] <Laurenceb> i think i solved my oscillating rotor problem, in simulation at least
[11:15] <Laurenceb> theres this stuff called grease
[11:16] <Laurenceb> http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201516/Rutherford.jpg
[11:16] <Laurenceb> whats the blue thing?
[11:16] <edmoore> actuator
[11:16] <Laurenceb> yeah but hydralic?
[11:17] <Laurenceb> unless its an inline motor i guess
[11:17] <edmoore> looks hydraulic
[11:17] <edmoore> think i saw some hydraulic fittings
[11:17] <Laurenceb> ah
[11:18] Action: Laurenceb wonders if "3D printed" titanium is actually cheap
[11:19] <edmoore> not especially but cnc machines and operators are a lot of capital
[11:22] <edmoore> i think people just decide turbopumps are hard and scary
[11:23] <edmoore> to be fair they are, but it's just a question of learning how to do it
[11:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03YO3FVR-7_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YO3FVR-7_chase
[11:23] <edmoore> i don;t think there's anything inherent about the difficulty, just that the designers needs to be very good at lots of things to design one
[11:25] <Laurenceb> its a pity Giffard injectors arent practical for most fuels
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[11:27] <edmoore> that's one of those steam ejectors for (for example) creating vacuums quickly right?
[11:27] <Laurenceb> yes
[11:27] <edmoore> why would that be useful for an engine injector?
[11:27] <Laurenceb> or alternatively you can run them to create really high pressures
[11:27] <edmoore> we looked at them for creating a vacuum test cell for small thrustors
[11:27] <Laurenceb> they work with MON
[11:27] <Laurenceb> ah
[11:28] <Laurenceb> that was probably a conventional ejector
[11:28] <Laurenceb> when you have a phase change inside its a Giffard
[11:29] <Laurenceb> getting the phase change to occur is virtually impossible with liquid oxygen
[11:29] <Laurenceb> unless maybe if its pre cooled slush
[11:29] <edmoore> (googling it)
[11:29] <Laurenceb> H2O2 also works, but it might also blow up....
[11:30] <Laurenceb> this idea was looked at briefly in the 60s, there is a fair bit of work to be found
[11:30] <Laurenceb> aiui it looked practical for MON/Kerosene
[11:30] <edmoore> nitrous, i'm thinking
[11:30] <Laurenceb> ah yeah maybe
[11:31] <edmoore> we usually try and engineer the phase change in the injector for that
[11:31] <Laurenceb> would need some maths :P
[11:31] <edmoore> always
[11:32] <Laurenceb> so you go liquid -> gas -> nozzle -> high velocity gas -> mix in more liquid -> condenses to high velocity liquid stream
[11:33] <Laurenceb> on steam locos they can inject water into the boiler with no venting, its like magic :P
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[11:35] <Lunar_Lander> did you see the ULA announcement for the new ACES upper stage?
[11:36] <Lunar_Lander> calling it "sports car to the stars"
[11:36] <Laurenceb> for nitrous you would need a high temperature and pressure gas phase supply
[11:36] <Laurenceb> sounds a bit splody
[11:36] <Laurenceb> Lunar_Lander: we were talking about it about a week ago lol
[11:36] <Laurenceb> get with the times
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> If only ozone wasn't so tempramental.
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> Emphasis on the mental.
[11:37] <Laurenceb> it has a couple of model T ford engines strapped on
[11:37] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[11:37] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I have a german book from 1982 listing LOX+LH2+LO3 as the most powerful propellant
[11:39] <Laurenceb> actually nitrous will go supercritical
[11:39] <Laurenceb> could be interesting
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> I suspect gaseous/supercritical nitrous is a high explosive.
[11:40] <Laurenceb> Richard Branson agrees
[11:41] <edmoore> Lunar_Lander, the ozon-oxygen mixtures are interesting
[11:41] <edmoore> so ozone on its own is in theory good but it's also lethally toxic
[11:41] <edmoore> and extremely sensitive
[11:41] <Laurenceb> but nothing says you cant use multiple gasses in a giffard injector
[11:42] <edmoore> it explosively decomposes to oxygen in the presence of almost anything - water, chorine, metal oxides, lab technicians
[11:42] <Laurenceb> e.g. a refridgerant
[11:42] <edmoore> so people looked at solutions of liquid oxygen and liquid ozone as you identify
[11:42] <edmoore> but it still has annoying properties - the boiling point of ozone is about 50K higher than oxygen
[11:42] <edmoore> so on engine shutdown you have this liquid solution evaporating in the lines, and the oxygen naturally boils off first
[11:43] <edmoore> and you're then left with a solution of liquid ozone
[11:43] <edmoore> and then very frequently you're left with no more propellant lines
[11:44] <Lunar_Lander> true
[11:44] <SpeedEvil> Simplifies cleaning.
[11:44] <edmoore> i think people managed to avoid this phase separation by adding flourine
[11:44] <edmoore> but it all sounded like a bit of a pig
[11:44] <edmoore> lo2 is pretty well behaved on its own
[11:44] <edmoore> a decent engineering compromise
[11:45] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[11:45] <Laurenceb> liquid ozone is corrosive?
[11:45] <edmoore> heh i've found an amusing quote from a paper
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> Earth has a low enough delta-v requirement that it's nt - really - required to go to really exotic propellants fortunately
[11:46] <edmoore> Some investigators believe that the ex- plosions are initiated by traces of organic peroxides in the stuff, which come from traces, say, of oil in the oxygen it was made of. Other workers are convinced that it's just the nature of ozone to explode, and still others are sure that original sin has something to do with it. So although ozone research has been continuing in a desultory fashion, there are very few true believers left, who are still convinced tha
[11:46] <edmoore> t ozone will somehow, someday, come into its own. Im not one of them.
[11:47] <fsphil> I Believe
[11:47] <fsphil> heh, "stuff"
[11:48] <Laurenceb> oh it explodes
[11:48] <Lunar_Lander> nice quote :D
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[12:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03f0gra_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=f0gra_chase
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[13:11] <TT7> hello everybody
[13:14] <TT7> I've recently made a Google Earth animation of a HAB flight and air traffic http://tt7hab.blogspot.cz/ Does anyone have any experience with getting raw data from FlightRadar24's playback history?
[13:19] <edmoore> no experience, but nice animation
[13:20] <edmoore> would be good to have one of the angles really emphasise how much higher the balloon is
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[13:22] <TT7> try downloading the KML files and running it yourself. the videos and pictures will always suppress the dimensionality
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[13:24] <SpeedEvil> Not always
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[13:24] <SpeedEvil> You can for example slect out apparant intersections and freeze the time, and then rotate around to show the 3d perspective
[13:27] <TT7> I tried taking a video of the camera rotating around, but it turned out to be to demanding on my computer hardware and it kept freezing, so I decided to share the files instead
[13:28] <edmoore> :)
[13:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03TEST - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TEST
[13:40] <Matt_Project_Hel> Getting really exciting now... We're aiming for a Tuesday launch from Cambridge :)
[13:40] <Matt_Project_Hel> Can someone OK my flight document?
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[13:51] <Matt_PrjHet> It's PrjHeT
[14:08] <mfa298> Matt_PrjHet: you'll want to post the flighgt doc id into #habhub, but ensure the payload appears on the map first with that flight doc
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[14:10] <mfa298> also if you're using one of the standard sites in cambridge I assume you've already arranged to use the site with the people that own/control it.
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[14:42] <Matt_PrjHet> Yep, I'm in touch with CUSF. I've added a flight document on habitat.habhub.org/genpayload (actually I've done two by mistake...) - but it hasn't appeared yet on tracker.habhub
[14:45] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03MONDO-3 after 035 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MONDO-3
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[15:20] <Herman_> flights
[15:21] <Herman_> !flights
[15:21] <SpacenearUS> 03Herman_: Current flights: 03MTG003 10(5568)
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[15:40] <alxwntr> Hello all
[15:40] <alxwntr> I'm just thinking about the definition of my tx string
[15:40] <alxwntr> does anyone have any feelings about which fields are really useful?
[15:41] <alxwntr> other than lat lon alt, of course
[15:41] <alxwntr> are horizontal speed and bearing of any practical use when chasing?
[15:41] <alxwntr> I've not done it so I don't know
[15:42] <alxwntr> I thought perhaps getting that from successive positions might be good enough
[15:42] <alxwntr> any thoughts?
[15:43] <edmoore> the latter
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[15:45] <alxwntr> ah great
[15:45] <alxwntr> that shortens the tx string
[15:45] <alxwntr> thanks
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[16:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Bcsdpi_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Bcsdpi_chase
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[16:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BCSDPI - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BCSDPI
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[16:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF7RCV-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF7RCV-11
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[17:09] <G6ZKC> Is K6RPT-11 on 144.800 or 144.390 over Europe ?
[17:10] <daveake> former
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[17:14] <daveake> ^ presumably doesn't stand from "low noise" something
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[17:14] <daveake> s/from/for
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[17:19] <lz1dev> Upu: pls /ban *!~lnr@*$##FIX_YOUR_CONNECTION
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[17:24] <bradfirj> i haven't seen Max SendQ in a long time
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[17:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PrjHeT - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PrjHeT
[17:33] <gb73d> [18:32] <gb73d> a 2nd UK ISS pass is due in a shortwhile
[17:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VE2WMG-11 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE2WMG-11
[17:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03STRATOS_CHEM - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=STRATOS_CHEM
[17:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03YO3FVR-7_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YO3FVR-7_chase
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[17:58] <stevef_> hi. does anyone know the name of the antenna socket on a ublox neo6m ?
[17:58] <Upu> it doesn't have an antenna socket
[17:58] <Upu> thats just a module
[17:58] <Upu> if its mounted on a board its likely to be u.Fl
[17:59] <stevef_> ive got a module with an active antenna plugged into it
[17:59] <SA6BSS-Mike> sma like
[17:59] <SA6BSS-Mike> likely*
[17:59] <stevef_> like this http://s3.electrodragon.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/EDXGPS-Ublox-NEO-6-GPS-Module-wActive-Antenna-EERPOM-Battery-3.jpg
[17:59] <stevef_> its too small for sma
[17:59] <SA6BSS-Mike> not sma
[18:00] <stevef_> is it sirf or something like that
[18:00] <stevef_> i just want to see if there is an adapter to convert it to sma
[18:00] <craag> UFL
[18:00] <craag> or U.FL
[18:01] <stevef_> yeah it could be, thats the same as on the spark cores i think
[18:01] <craag> That's what it is :)
[18:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> seen it a thousand times , never now4 it name :)
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[18:02] <stevef_> i want to put an external GPS outside cos I dont work near a window, and ive fed up of astanding by the kitchen window (and so is the wife!!)
[18:02] <mikestir> just watch out if you get a pigtail off ebay or similar - a lot of them will be RP-SMA sold for wifi applications
[18:03] <mikestir> RP-SMA has the pin on the wrong side of the connector
[18:03] <stevef_> ok. sparkfun do them
[18:04] <craag> You could just get a more modern MAX-8 (GPS+GLONASS) module with a real connector ;) http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=96
[18:06] <Lunar_Lander> hi craag
[18:06] <craag> yo Lunar_Lander
[18:06] <craag> How's things?
[18:07] <Lunar_Lander> all good thanks and with you?
[18:07] <craag> Yeah good - playing with not-so-shiny loot from radio rally today
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[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> sh
[18:10] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VA2RMG-11 after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VA2RMG-11
[18:10] <Lunar_Lander> *ah
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[18:14] <craag> 1x pentium-m, dual 1gb ethernet 1U rackmount pc - now loaded up with pfsense firewall :)
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[18:17] <stevef_> really need to get an irc client the webirc keeps crashing out
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[18:19] <chrisstubbs> Anyone get anything from the ISS just now?
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[18:19] <mikestir> why, what's on?
[18:19] <stevef_> all my radios are in the loft lol
[18:20] <chrisstubbs> Just tried tuning in but nothing, how can you tell when its transmitting? :P
[18:21] <mikestir> the ARISS stuff isn't on very often as far as I can tell. last week's sstv was a special event
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[18:21] <pidpawel> aprs?
[18:21] <SA6BSS-Mike> 145.825
[18:21] <pidpawel> aprs digipeater on iss is constantly on afaik
[18:21] <pidpawel> i've even made some contats through it
[18:22] <mikestir> oh yeah forgot about that
[18:24] <darkstar-20011> Or did you mean this: http://amsat-uk.org/2015/04/18/iss-2395-mhz-digital-amateur-tv-blank-transmission-test/
[18:24] <stevef_> how do i get my GPS time to be correct its exactly one hour slow, is it a programming solution or can i change something via u-centre
[18:25] <mikestir> it's utc
[18:25] <stevef_> only UTC ?
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[18:26] <mikestir> well yes. in general local time should only ever be used at point of presentation
[18:26] <chrisstubbs> I was expecting SSTV on 145.800MHz
[18:27] <pidpawel> sstv is active only on special events
[18:27] <lz1dev> ARISS feed is available on http://spacenear.us/sats/ and it's on most of the time on ISS, unless they are doing EVAs
[18:27] <stevef_> used to love sstv but didnt hear anything for months from ISS so packed everthing up,keep meaning to advertise them on flebay
[18:28] <chrisstubbs> pidpawel, ah that will be why then!
[18:28] <pidpawel> wait. there were sstv few weeks ago
[18:28] <mikestir> I'd like to have a go at the DVB-S downlink - need to build a downconverter
[18:29] <mikestir> sstv last week
[18:29] <pidpawel> actually i see them every few weeks :D
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[18:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG7HIZ-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG7HIZ-11
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[18:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KE7SYF-3 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KE7SYF-3
[18:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KE7SYF-2 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KE7SYF-2
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[19:17] <SpeedEvil> Random question. I'm trying to find out weather for my little part of scotland ~14-20th march
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> Any hints?
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[19:21] <TT7> SpeedEvil what sort of data?
[19:23] <TT7> for sounding data I use this. It's a database of raw sounding data from allaround the world. http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html
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[19:27] <SpeedEvil> TT7: Just surface rain and wind
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[19:29] <TT7> well, for wind you can use the link, but I won't help you with the rain
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[19:42] <mikestir> SpeedEvil: http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/
[19:42] <mikestir> I was thinking about the old personal weather stations, which they seem to have assimilated into their main database now, but it looks as though you can request historical data still (custom duration at the bottom)
[19:45] <SpeedEvil> thanks - trying to work out how to work that
[19:45] <mikestir> it doesn't seem anywhere near as useful as it used to be
[19:46] <mikestir> I suppose the other thing to try is just googling for a weather station nearby
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> http://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=IGLENROT4#history/s20150314/e20150314/mdaily
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> seems to tell me
[19:50] <SpeedEvil> Thanks!
[19:51] <mikestir> yeah I was just looking at that same feature - seems you can download a table as well
[19:52] <mikestir> although that station you're looking at doesn't seem to have either wind or rain measurements!
[19:52] <mikestir> chances are you'll find one reasonably nearby that does though
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> That's because there was no rain that day
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> I don't care much about wind actually
[19:55] <SpeedEvil> http://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=IGLENROT4#history/s20150307/e20150314/mweek - yeah - it's got no wind
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[20:01] <daveake> I've got my weather station uploading to wunderground
[20:02] <daveake> pretty easy to set up
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> Not here alas.
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> I have to setup an interfacy thing
[20:05] <daveake> mine has usb, so add Pi and s/w, set it up, job jobbed
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[20:06] <SpeedEvil> I need to open mine or snoop the RF
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> Or just say screw-it and put an ESP up the pole and wire up the sensors
[20:06] <SpeedEvil> Which is probably easier
[20:07] <mikestir> if it's a conrad fht based one then the gnuradio stuff I did for sniffing radiator valves will be pretty close to doing the job
[20:07] <mikestir> I think a lot of the cheaper ones use that protocol
[20:07] <mikestir> it's OOK so easy enough to inspect with audacity
[20:09] <russss> https://github.com/merbanan/rtl_433 decodes quite a lot of weather stations
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> An amusing project might be a couple of sensitive directional antennas to sweep the local area for weather stations
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[20:44] <Vaizki> I can get 2 neighbors weather stations on 433MHz
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[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[22:26] <esculca> hi giys
[22:26] <esculca> guys, sorry
[22:27] <esculca> anyone in here has experience with RFM98 operating in FSK mode?
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[22:28] <craag> Hi
[22:28] <craag> Yes
[22:28] <esculca> you do Craag?
[22:28] <craag> Yep
[22:28] <esculca> good
[22:28] <craag> Do you mean it's native FSK packet or RTTY?
[22:28] <esculca> it seems you have to do oversampling
[22:29] <esculca> to get the lower bitrates of rtty
[22:29] <esculca> I want RTTY
[22:29] <esculca> I have it operating lora mode
[22:29] <craag> one sec
[22:29] <craag> I got Lora and RTTY working
[22:29] <esculca> i want to send ths balloon and transmit lora and fsk
[22:29] <esculca> using the same chipset
[22:29] <craag> but couldn't switch reliably between them
[22:29] <esculca> no?
[22:29] <craag> others have
[22:29] <craag> so it is possible
[22:30] <craag> just need to work out how :)
[22:30] <esculca> I ma trying, i am trying
[22:30] <craag> see: https://github.com/philcrump/early-bird/blob/master/Firmware/Radio.c
[22:31] <esculca> I know that site
[22:31] <craag> radio_lora_init() and radio_rtty_init() are meant to switch between them
[22:31] <esculca> went trhough his coede
[22:31] <craag> github is a code-sharing website
[22:31] <craag> That's my code
[22:31] <esculca> your?
[22:31] Action: craag is philcrump
[22:31] <esculca> how could I know that?
[22:31] <esculca> :)
[22:32] <esculca> well, I went through your code
[22:32] <craag> You couldn't - but that code for doing rtty works
[22:32] <esculca> chenged a lot of stuff to fit my mine
[22:32] <esculca> ok
[22:32] <craag> jsut changes the LSB of the freq register
[22:32] <esculca> that's a good start
[22:33] <craag> note: if you overflow or underflow the register it'll break stuff
[22:33] <esculca> but how can it overflow?
[22:33] <esculca> it has only one byte?
[22:33] <craag> yep
[22:33] <craag> so if your frequency already has it set to 0xFE or something
[22:34] <craag> and you want to shift up 5 steps
[22:34] <craag> It's gonna overflow
[22:34] <esculca> now I am lost
[22:34] <esculca> let me check
[22:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG7QDJ - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG7QDJ
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[00:00] --- Mon Apr 20 2015