highaltitude.log.20150415

[00:00] <russss> amell: got a reference for the exact frequency?
[00:00] <adamgreig> it's probably overpowered in any event :p
[00:00] <russss> I'm not immediately aware of any license exempt frequencies around 1GHz though
[00:01] <amell> It's in a rc forum. Just says 1ghz
[00:03] <Laurenceb_> 1Ghz?!
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[00:03] <Laurenceb_> that makes no sense
[00:03] <amell_> "Aeronautical radionavigation"
[00:03] <russss> unless they're rounding 868MHz up rather significantly I don't think that's a license exempt band.
[00:04] <amell_> Wondering if they have some kind of agreement
[00:04] <Laurenceb_> some n00b
[00:04] <Laurenceb_> :P
[00:04] <Laurenceb_> they dont seem to know what they are talking about
[00:04] <amell_> I agree I wonder if they actually mean 915
[00:04] <amell_> Which would translate to 868 in our world
[00:06] <russss> "The use of the band 960-1215 MHz by the aeronautical radionavigation service is reserved on a worldwide basis for the operation and development of airborne electronic aids to air navigation and any directly associated ground-based facilities. (WRC-2000)"
[00:06] <amell_> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2391450
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[00:06] Nick change: amell_ -> amell
[00:07] <russss> but you really don't want to be transmitting there. That would be a very naive interpretation of that allocation.
[00:08] <russss> aviation transponders/secondary radar are very close to 1GHz, and I would suggest that transmitting over those would be a Very Bad Idea.
[00:08] <arko> it's not a 1ghz radio
[00:08] <lz1dev> powered by twin 1 GHz computers
[00:08] <lz1dev> ^
[00:08] <Laurenceb_> lorf
[00:09] <lz1dev> how did you manage to mistype rofl?
[00:09] <Laurenceb_> lorf as in laugh
[00:10] <russss> yeah someone in that thread does say 1GHz is the downlink but I suspect that is unlikely.
[00:10] <arko> i call bullshit
[00:10] <arko> i mean bs
[00:10] <arko> sorry, language
[00:12] <lz1dev> do they even have a working prototype?
[00:13] <lz1dev> coz all i see is CGI videos, and plastic thingy in a plexiglass case
[00:13] <Laurenceb_> the world’s first smart drone
[00:13] <lz1dev> if you have something, usually you would show it flying
[00:13] <Laurenceb_> omg bullshit
[00:13] <Laurenceb_> almost as much bs as zano
[00:14] <amell> It looks fooking sexy
[00:14] <amell> Shipping in one month
[00:15] <amell> Selling at currys in the UK
[00:15] <amell> Methinks CAA will be clamping down on the swarms of drones
[00:18] <lz1dev> Flight time: 14 min* ;)
[00:18] <amell> Thats about right for a drone
[00:18] <amell> Normal
[00:18] <lz1dev> the thing from their shop
[00:18] <lz1dev> costs 5.4k $
[00:19] <amell> Yes it is usual for drone owners to have lots of lipos
[00:19] <amell> Which thing do you refer to?
[00:19] <lz1dev> https://store.3drobotics.com/products/x8-m
[00:19] <Laurenceb_> anyone waiting for PS-41?
[00:19] <lz1dev> thing has 8 propellers  _ 
[00:20] <lz1dev> 915mhz
[00:20] <amell> Oh that's a mapping drone with redundancy
[00:20] <lz1dev> yeah they are probably rounding to 1ghz
[00:20] <amell> Laurenceb_: what's the story with ps-41?
[00:20] <lz1dev> for europe it says 433mhz
[00:21] <amell> Gah. My 3dr 433mhz clone from China obliterates spectrum there
[00:21] <amell> 500mW 8)
[00:22] <amell> 100pc duty cycle on 10 channels.
[00:22] <lz1dev> i need to get one of these
[00:22] <amell> Can up it to 20 channels for more bandwidth
[00:22] <lz1dev> the DIY version is 550$
[00:22] <amell> Link?
[00:22] <lz1dev> https://store.3drobotics.com/products/diy-quad-kit
[00:23] <lz1dev> I wonder if it can lift a camera
[00:23] <amell> You can do it cheaper than that
[00:23] <lz1dev> oh fore sure
[00:23] <lz1dev> i was talking in general, not this particular one
[00:23] <amell> Wait for the solo
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[00:24] <amell> Maybe we can do a solo swarm at the next conference lol
[00:25] <amell> It will lift a gopro no problem
[00:28] <lz1dev> get a simple point and shoot
[00:28] <lz1dev> 2-4 times cheaper
[00:29] <lz1dev> new ones even have pretty decent image stabilization
[00:29] <lz1dev> shooting larger image, and stabilizaing via software
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[01:06] <lz1dev> https://store.3drobotics.com/products/diy-quad-kit
[01:06] <lz1dev> copy paste fails me
[01:06] <lz1dev> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/588142879245238273/photo/1
[01:12] <fxmulder> kind of looks like it took to long to correct for its drift
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[02:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-41 after 0313 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-41
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[03:15] <dcbertelsen> !aprs
[03:15] <SpacenearUS> 03dcbertelsen: Tracking via APRS: 03DL4MDW-11, 03DL4MDW-12, 03DN4GB-11, 03KB1YTY, 03KC3EMR-11, 03KF5PGW-8, 03LU7AA-11, 03M0RPI-9, 03SP9UOB-11
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[03:16] <kemfic> hi
[03:16] <kemfic> anyone on
[03:18] <dcbertelsen> Hello.
[03:19] <kemfic> I have some questions
[03:19] <kemfic> im new to the HAB community
[03:19] <dcbertelsen> I'll try to answer any questions. I've only got three launches with some high school students under my belt.
[03:20] <kemfic> What would you reecommend as my main tracker
[03:20] <kemfic> well, thats three more than me
[03:20] <kemfic> :)
[03:21] <kemfic> I saw PI in the Sky but im not sure that 434 Mhz is legal in the US
[03:21] <kemfic> Is it?
[03:21] <dcbertelsen> You just answered my first question.
[03:21] <dcbertelsen> 434 MHz is legal in the US if you have an amateur radio license.
[03:22] <dcbertelsen> Which is my second question: Do you have a license currently or would be willing to get one? (Not terribly difficult.)
[03:22] <kemfic> oh
[03:23] <kemfic> what are the frequencies that I can use without a license
[03:23] <kemfic> In the us.
[03:23] <kemfic> US*
[03:24] <kemfic> I can get one, but I only have 14 days till the launch
[03:24] <kemfic> is that enough time?
[03:24] <dcbertelsen> Mostly the 900 MHz range.
[03:25] <dcbertelsen> Most areas have fairly regular tests. See http://www.arrl.org/licensing-education-training for local testing sites.
[03:26] <dcbertelsen> I studied for about 4-6 hours and passed the tests for the first two levels; the third was pretty rough (I didn't even study for that one.) If you have a good handle on electronics it's not too bad.
[03:27] <dcbertelsen> In such a short time, you may want to look into a SPOT tracker. They are a little pricey, but low time requirements.
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[03:32] <dcbertelsen> Welcome back.
[03:32] <kemfic> I apologise my internet was disconnected for some wierd reason
[03:32] <dcbertelsen> What was the last of my posts you read?
[03:33] <kemfic> Ameteur radio licences
[03:33] <kemfic> I have 14 days, Is it possible for me to get it in time
[03:33] <dcbertelsen> Most areas have fairly regular tests. See http://www.arrl.org/licensing-education-training for local testing sites. [22:26] <dcbertelsen> I studied for about 4-6 hours and passed the tests for the first two levels; the third was pretty rough (I didn't even study for that one.) If you have a good handle on electronics it's not too bad. [22:27] <dcbertelsen> In such a short time, you may want to look into a SPOT tracker. They
[03:34] <kemfic> I really want to make it to GSBC
[03:34] <dcbertelsen> In short, possibly. I assume you are wanting to participate in the GBSC... Yup...
[03:35] <dcbertelsen> You may try to locate somebody with a license that can fly their radio on your balloon or look for a balloon to hitch a ride on.
[03:35] <dcbertelsen> What part of the US?
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[03:39] <kemfic> sorry again
[03:40] <kemfic> Will I be able to change the transmitting frequency?
[03:40] <dcbertelsen> Change the frequency on which thing?
[03:41] <kemfic> Pi in the sky
[03:41] <kemfic> There are no places for me to get my license in where i live
[03:42] <kemfic> never mind, i found some
[03:43] <kemfic> Its like a 30 min drive from where i live
[03:43] <dcbertelsen> Pi in the sky uses regulated frequencies in the US. It would be a major undertaking to change the frequencies on it.
[03:43] <kemfic> So I cant use it without a license
[03:44] <dcbertelsen> What part of the US?
[03:44] <kemfic> Orange county CA
[03:45] <kemfic> could I change the module
[03:45] <dcbertelsen> Not in the US. And a good SDR (Software Defined Radio) will be another $200 ish. There are less expensive ones that don't perform as well.
[03:45] <kemfic> how about the usb ones?
[03:46] <kemfic> Let's say that I have a 600 dollar budget, what equipment would you recommend
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[03:47] <dcbertelsen> Most reviews have suggested to not depend on the USB versions for live tracking; better for testing.
[03:48] <dcbertelsen> Either a SPOT or get your license and a 2M BigRedBee ($259 ish) would get your payload posting to aprs.fi and other sites.
[03:49] <dcbertelsen> There should be some other fliers in your area that could help out.
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[03:50] <kemfic_> I'm back
[03:50] <kemfic_> my new internet is pissing me off
[03:50] <dcbertelsen> USB versions not recommended as only tracking.
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[03:51] <kemfic_> I already have those
[03:51] <kemfic_> gps trackers
[03:51] <dcbertelsen> SPOT for Internet tracking or get amateur license and 2M BigRedBee ($259ish) to get on aprs.fi
[03:52] <kemfic_> I have the one where you put the sim card in and its transmits every 5 minutes
[03:52] <kemfic_> to my phone
[03:53] <kemfic_> So you are saying that I should get a spot
[03:55] <kemfic_> I have to tell my other friends the exact cost of the whole project
[03:55] <dcbertelsen> In such a short time frame and limited budget, yes.
[03:56] <dcbertelsen> You might still see if there is a HAM in the area that would be willing to fly their equipment.
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[04:02] <kemfic> ugh
[04:02] <kemfic> just called the ISP
[04:03] <kemfic> they said they were gonna fix it
[04:03] <kemfic> then they cut off my internet
[04:03] <kemfic> Now i'm using hotspot off my phone
[04:03] <kemfic> its even slower
[04:04] <kemfic> is spot reliable
[04:05] <kemfic> will the battery die when it freezes
[04:05] <lz1dev> SPOT is as reliable as your internet
[04:05] <kemfic> it has lithium batteries, so it might make it
[04:05] <lz1dev> and thats probably a compliment :)
[04:06] <dcbertelsen> How high are you looking to fly? Reports are pretty good for the SPOT. I haven't done much research as I have the license and hardware for better options.
[04:06] <kemfic> 100,000
[04:06] <kemfic> a little high for my fist flight
[04:06] <kemfic> too high
[04:06] <kemfic> first*
[04:07] <dcbertelsen> We underfilled (unintentionally) our first flight and it hit 106,000 feet. The worst part was the overly long flight time/drive. It was still unforgettable.
[04:07] <kemfic> my new internet isn't reliable
[04:07] <kemfic> that must suck
[04:08] <kemfic> so the average flight is around 4 hours?
[04:09] <dcbertelsen> With SPOT, you will need to log into their site for updates. The signal on the tracker runs via satellite.
[04:09] <dcbertelsen> Use the predictors to get about 5 m/s (15 ft/sec). This is about 1000 feet per minute. 100 minutes up and probably a little shorter down depending on parachute size.
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[04:11] <dcbertelsen> Has anyone online used the tracker site for an APRS only flight? (US in this case.)
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[04:13] <kemfic> life sucks when you have bad internet
[04:13] <kemfic> time warner cable was so good in my old area
[04:13] <kemfic> now we have cox
[04:13] <dcbertelsen> First world problems...
[04:13] <kemfic> top lel
[04:14] <kemfic> so do you have any other suggestions?
[04:14] <kemfic> is picotracker good
[04:14] <kemfic> nvm its probably gonna take a long time to ship to US
[04:14] <kemfic> I can get a spot from the nearest fry's
[04:15] <kemfic> will the spot transmit above 50k feet?
[04:15] <dcbertelsen> Picotracker looks like a nice board, but still needs amateur license.
[04:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03troy1066_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=troy1066_chase
[04:18] <dcbertelsen> It looks like SPOT may be good up to 60k. You will have a blackout time if that is the case.
[04:19] <lz1dev> the problem with spot is that you can't control the pings it sends
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[04:19] <lz1dev> there is no granteed you will get good pings before and after you land
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[04:20] <lz1dev> at that point, you sit home and hope someone will eventually find and ring the phone number written on the payload
[04:21] <kemfic_> i lost you there
[04:21] <kemfic_> i was like gone for 3 min
[04:21] <kemfic_> is it just me or is this god's way of saying no?
[04:22] <kemfic_> what I'm afraid is that its either going in the ocean, or its gonna be run over with farm vehicles
[04:22] <kemfic_> those things they use to shred and pick up crops
[04:23] <kemfic_> i don't know the name right now
[04:23] <dcbertelsen> SPOT looks to be limited to 60k feet. I think most of them send out pings every 15 minutes. That means you might not get packets when you most need them.
[04:24] <kemfic_> I really want to use an arduino or a raspberry pi, but i need a license
[04:24] <kemfic_> what do you mean by when I most need them
[04:24] <lz1dev> lz1dev> the problem with spot is that you can't control the pings it sends
[04:24] <lz1dev> lz1dev> there is no granteed you will get good pings before and after you land
[04:24] <lz1dev> lz1dev> at that point, you sit home and hope someone will eventually find and ring the phone number written on the payload
[04:24] <kemfic_> yeah
[04:25] <dcbertelsen> Bright red or orange parachute; I'm guessing they won't want hit it if it is visible. Use http://predict.habhub.org/ to get a rough idea of landing site. You will need to have good data on weight and ascent/descent rates for good predictions.
[04:25] <kemfic_> ok
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[04:25] <lz1dev> if you get a position 1000m above ground, and nothing more, you'd be pretty lucky if you actually manage to find it :)
[04:25] <kemfic_> i'm planning on sending a Nokia lumia 1020 and a js5000 camera on board
[04:26] <lz1dev> a gsm tracker would probably do a better job than SPOT
[04:26] <kemfic_> i have that
[04:26] <lz1dev> for finding it after it lands
[04:26] <kemfic_> don't think it will stand the temperature though
[04:27] <kemfic_> Was launching your first HAB hard for you guys?
[04:27] <lz1dev> yes, but only because of other people :)
[04:27] <lz1dev> 'team' project
[04:27] <dcbertelsen> Get in touch with this group http://www.w6ze.org/ ASAP. You would be surprised how many HAMS would be more than happy to teach the younger generation about radio.
[04:27] <kemfic_> same here
[04:28] <kemfic_> thank you very much
[04:29] <dcbertelsen> Not really; I'm from a high power rocketry background and was pretty comfortable with on the ground tracking. Filling fully was the biggest issue the first time. It was a bit windy and we stopped filling too soon.
[04:29] <kemfic_> first tracking experience
[04:29] <kemfic_> the tracking is the only hard part for us
[04:30] <kemfic_> maybe the power supplies too, but that will take like 30 min of research
[04:30] <kemfic_> how hard was your first tracking?
[04:30] <kemfic_> I just jumped into this with no knowledge on tracking
[04:31] <kemfic_> i'm an 8th grader
[04:32] <dcbertelsen> Other than dead batteries in my handheld (charger was dead and I didn't know it), not too bad at all. But, I have invested a good amount of time and $$$ in the hardware. This is why I'd recommend finding a HAM to help.
[04:33] <kemfic_> I don't think I have the time
[04:33] <kemfic_> GSBC is ending on the 27th
[04:33] <kemfic_> is that enough time?
[04:33] <kemfic_> Their next meeting is on the 17th
[04:34] <kemfic_> and i only have a 600 dollar budget
[04:35] <kemfic_> is there any chance of the payload dropping in the ocean on the pacific coast?
[04:35] <kemfic_> because that would really suck
[04:41] <dcbertelsen> Use the predict.habhub.org to plan your landing zone. I would see if there is an e-mail for the HAM group. There are 6 registered GSBC teams in your area. See if you can fly a payload on their balloon.
[04:41] <dcbertelsen> Don't give up your plans; we wanted to launch last year for GSBC and didn't get a balloon in the air until August.
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[04:42] <kemfic> is high altitude sciences 600g balloon good?
[04:42] <dcbertelsen> [23:41] <dcbertelsen> Use the predict.habhub.org to plan your landing zone. I would see if there is an e-mail for the HAM group. There are 6 registered GSBC teams in your area. See if you can fly a payload on their balloon. [23:41] <dcbertelsen> Don't give up your plans; we wanted to launch last year for GSBC and didn't get a balloon in the air until August.
[04:43] <kemfic> ok
[04:43] <kemfic> my principal is expecting my team to make it though
[04:43] <kemfic> we decided to do it for fun, but my principal took it to a whole new level
[04:45] <kemfic> there was originally 8 teams in our school, and the other 7 teams aren't smart enough to do anything
[04:46] <dcbertelsen> Another tracking possibility is the Eggfinder; it is a fairly low-cost tracker for rockets. Might not be a strong enough signal without a directional (Yagi) antenna. Android apps exist to help.
[04:47] <dcbertelsen> Above all, bright colors and return information in case you lose track of it.
[04:48] <kemfic> have attained a clear-air range of over 8,000' with no signal loss
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[04:48] <kemfic> will it be able to transmit over 20 miles?
[04:48] <Reb-SM3ULC> kemfic: rpi in the sky is a very nice compoenent for tracking
[04:49] <kemfic> yeah the one is nice
[04:50] <dcbertelsen> We're dealing with US frequency regulations and no HAM license.
[04:50] <Reb-SM3ULC> kemfic: was incolved in a student-project before christmas, they ened up with a couple of broken gsm-trackers etc but they had a pits onboard that worked very good. tracked it 200 km away with dvb-dongle and stock-antenna.
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[04:53] <kemfic> there is an exam on the 16th
[04:53] <kemfic> will i be able to study for it
[04:53] <kemfic> what do I need to know
[04:55] <kemfic> you have to bring your SSN and a few other papers
[04:55] <kemfic> I havent seen those in years
[04:56] <dcbertelsen> http://www.kb6nu.com/study-guides/ -- You just need the technician class license.
[04:56] <kemfic> I have a school ID
[04:58] <dcbertelsen> http://www.eham.net/exams/ for practice questions. Keep taking it until you regularly pass.
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[04:59] <kemfic_> I have a lot to study then
[05:00] <kemfic_> At least I have some knowledge on ELectronics
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[05:02] <kemfic_> are there any other reliable options
[05:02] <kemfic_> are you able to transmit video?
[05:02] <dcbertelsen> Give it a shot, but like you said, 14 days isn't very long. Best of luck!
[05:03] <dcbertelsen> Transmitting video well takes a bit more work; best to hold off until you get the basics going.
[05:03] <kemfic_> Ok,
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[05:05] <kemfic> I only have 2 days till the next exam
[05:05] <kemfic> launching this HAB will be more stressful than I thought It would be
[05:05] <dcbertelsen> That's not impossible, only difficult.
[05:05] <kemfic> yeah
[05:06] <kemfic> I also have 5 projects due this month
[05:06] <kemfic> and a bunch of deadlines
[05:06] <kemfic> and I have 4 more competitions coming up
[05:06] <kemfic> I'll research this more in class
[05:07] <kemfic> do you know any good and cheap ham radios
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[05:08] <kemfic> h
[05:09] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[05:10] <dcbertelsen> You basically get one or the other.
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[05:11] <kemfic> ?
[05:11] <kemfic> ugh
[05:11] <kemfic> anyone on?
[05:11] <kemfic> night
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[05:55] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03MTG004 after 0315 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MTG004
[05:59] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[07:07] <fsphil> morning all
[07:14] <number10> morn
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[07:15] <daveake> morning all
[07:16] <fsphil> only wednesday. long week
[07:17] <daveake> yeah, I'm sure it's longer than last week :/
[07:17] <daveake> https://v.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/7A1A091C561199927551154683904_3a5cd1574e0.2.1.51832829461268263.mp4?versionId=1t0RwgC6OwOAcJT4TQOd4zOemeP9waxc
[07:21] <HB9RSU> sad :-(
[07:24] <fsphil> vine refuses to work on pretty much all my stuff
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[07:25] <fsphil> that came in fast
[07:26] <fsphil> looked like it over-corrected itself near the end
[07:28] <daveake> yes that's what I was thinking
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[07:35] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc8jj-y5FJI
[07:35] <fsphil> low contrast was annoying me
[07:36] <fsphil> you can see the thrusters on the tip firing
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[07:55] <infaddict> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32313179
[07:56] <infaddict> Close but no cigar!
[07:59] <cm13g09> infaddict: not quite.... they're getting close though
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[08:10] <SQ5KVS> Hi Altitude
[08:11] <fsphil> very good
[08:13] <Alexandr_> hello
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[08:13] <x-f> morning
[08:14] <Alexandr_> I have a couple of questions about data transmission over rf
[08:14] <Alexandr_> is here anybody who can help me?
[08:14] <jonsowman> just go ahead and ask
[08:15] <jonsowman> someone will hopefully reply
[08:15] <Alexandr_> :)
[08:15] <Alexandr_> I was reading the article about raspi in the sky
[08:16] <Alexandr_> there is some information about how to connect an RF transmitter and to send data, but not very detailed
[08:16] <Alexandr_> I am looking for some tutorial with a step by step explanation
[08:17] <Alexandr_> I am absolutely unfamiliar with electronics, so it must be something easy to understand
[08:17] <daveake> What's your intention - to build a GPS/radio tracker ?
[08:17] <edmoore> we're not great at spoon-feeding here
[08:18] <edmoore> we prefer people who develop understanding to answer their own questions
[08:18] <edmoore> hmm maybe i'll have coffee before contributing further
[08:18] <Alexandr_> I want to send pictures wirelessly on the distance of 3-5 km
[08:18] <daveake> So this is not for a balloon?
[08:18] <Alexandr_> no
[08:19] <daveake> and no wifi or 3G/4G at each end of the link?
[08:19] <Alexandr_> but you used such system in your baloons to send pictures
[08:19] <Alexandr_> exactly, no wifi or 3g
[08:20] <gonzo_> you will have difficulty getting the low power RF mofules to work over that distance on the grounbd. Unless it's a hilltop to hiltop path
[08:20] <Alexandr_> it is a rural area with trees
[08:20] <gonzo_> balloons are line of sight
[08:20] <Alexandr_> not really a forest but some trees available
[08:21] <daveake> Can you get line-of-sight by putting aerials up on a mast?
[08:21] <gonzo_> the transmitters we use are basically the same as your car key fob. So use that as a rough guide of the ranges you would expect
[08:21] <Alexandr_> I think it is possible
[08:21] <daveake> point-to-point wifi might be the best bet
[08:21] <SQ5KVS> edmoore: I have to remember You'r answer for my customers
[08:21] <SQ5KVS> :)
[08:22] <daveake> Get a pair of Ubiquiti dishes with built-in wifi repeaters; job jobbed
[08:22] <edmoore> SQ5KVS, yes well
[08:22] <edmoore> step-by-step instructions (write this here, then press that, they hit enter) only cause more problems on this channel
[08:22] <SQ5KVS> ubiquiti is very good
[08:22] <daveake> yeah I'm not a fan of tutptials for that reason
[08:23] <daveake> or spell checkers obviously :/
[08:23] <SQ5KVS> Alexandr_: What kind of pictures? From digital camera or something?
[08:24] <Alexandr_> yes, it from webcam or raspi cam
[08:24] <Alexandr_> I will check out the Ubiquity.
[08:24] <Alexandr_> Thank you.
[08:25] <SQ5KVS> yhm, so it's digital. So You must use IP. So You must use wifi
[08:25] <gonzo_> also, the receive systems we need, to get the ranges we do from balloons, need to be quite specialised. Certainly far more work than putting a WLAN dish unit up a pole
[08:25] <Alexandr_> can wifi do it for 5km?
[08:25] <daveake> depends on those trees
[08:25] <day> trees are evil
[08:25] <Alexandr_> :)
[08:25] <daveake> but yes that distance itself is not a problem
[08:25] <SQ5KVS> right.
[08:26] <gonzo_> the 5ghs stuff copes with trees better than 2.4GHZ
[08:26] <day> iirc. water and metal is 2.4GHz worst enemy
[08:26] <Alexandr_> can you give me a link with some details about such wifi devices?
[08:26] <gonzo_> (not because of the frequency, but the modulation is better suited to scatter/multipath)
[08:26] <daveake> google.com
[08:27] <SQ5KVS> Alexandr_: In case of analogue traditional (pal) camera (no digital) You can use the analogue method to send the live by a few km.
[08:27] <gonzo_> ubnt.com
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[08:28] <Alexandr_> can I connect such PAL camera to raspi?
[08:28] <fsphil> not without a capture device
[08:28] <fsphil> do you have power at the remote site?
[08:29] <Alexandr_> only accus
[08:29] <Alexandr_> I can one for cars if necessary
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[08:30] <SQ5KVS> second method, a quite good, is to buy a strong TELE lens :D
[08:31] <gonzo_> with a pi and wlan unit, you will be changeing batteries every day
[08:31] <SQ5KVS> (tele does need any charging , lol)
[08:33] <gonzo_> probably looking at an amp or so of drain. pi + wlan. So 24AH capacity per day. Even with a 100AH batt, you will be changing every 2-3days
[08:33] <Alexandr_> so, no good solution at the moment?
[08:34] <gonzo_> you could add some solar panels, but you will be supprised how many/size you need
[08:34] <fsphil> I know I was
[08:35] <fsphil> you likely have more sun where you are than I do though
[08:35] <gonzo_> for an amp of drain, you are looking at an average of 250W PV. The problem is, that is av for the year. May be worse in the winter
[08:35] <Alexandr_> it is also too expensive
[08:35] <fsphil> yea solar is expensive. batteries are too
[08:35] <fsphil> good batteries*
[08:35] <infaddict> can you not send everything to sleep for 99% of the time and only wake up to take and send a pic?
[08:36] <infaddict> depends on frequency of pictures
[08:36] <Alexandr_> preferably 1-10 pics per minute
[08:36] <gonzo_> (my PV calcs are based on UK average generation)
[08:36] <Alexandr_> can be one per minute
[08:36] <fsphil> you will struggle for power at that rate
[08:37] <Alexandr_> also depends on resolution, I believe
[08:37] <infaddict> yep that is a lot of pics
[08:37] <gonzo_> at that rate, you would not be able to get wlan devices to sleep and reboot
[08:38] <infaddict> agreed
[08:38] <infaddict> i was thinking like 1 an hour or 2 hours
[08:38] <fsphil> too fast for 434mhz ssdv too
[08:38] <gonzo_> but with wlan, the resolution is prob not an issue
[08:38] <Alexandr_> I found a technology called LoRa
[08:38] <Alexandr_> it can send data up to 20 km but with low rate
[08:39] <Alexandr_> do you think it can work also for me?
[08:40] <gonzo_> for ground based systems, there are lots of RF modems available, that run at the 9600-19k2 rate. They may be worth looking at. (Radiometrix used to do some)
[08:41] <gonzo_> not sure of the law in your country, there may be some licence exempt frequencies you can use them oin. or get a licenecd channel
[08:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Several people are using LoRa here as well, take a look at daveake blog http://www.daveakerman.com/
[08:42] <day> about the daily/hourly started weather balloons. are there armees of people scavengerhunting them?
[08:42] <Alexandr_> I was reading the blog but did not see any LoRa
[08:42] <Alexandr_> I will check it out
[08:42] <Alexandr_> Thank you all for advises
[08:43] <Alexandr_> good luck with your projects
[08:43] <fsphil> lora would definitly be more power friendly than wifi
[08:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1719
[08:43] <fsphil> let us know how it goes Alexandr_
[08:43] <Alexandr_> ok, thanks again
[08:43] <Alexandr_> it was talking to you :)
[08:44] <Alexandr_> was nice
[08:44] <Alexandr_> :D
[08:46] <SQ5KVS> maybe try to find the web Wifi camera with antenna socket for external antenna. Typicall power consumption is about 10W but probably much less, so with 12Ah batter it should work dozen or more hours (non-stop)
[08:47] <gonzo_> with careful chouse of antenna, that may be a good way
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[08:48] <gonzo_> there are lots of really crap wifi antennas on the market
[08:48] <EI2KK> then use your Pi to switch it off/on
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[08:48] <Alexandr_> can you advise about the antennas?
[08:48] <gonzo_> you probably don't want to be running lead-acid batts down to flat, so budget for double the capacuty you think you need
[08:49] <EI2KK> any sector/directional wifi antenna should do
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[08:50] <gonzo_> the prob is, lots of so called directional wifi antennas ar so badly designed that they are little more use than a paperclip poled in the connector
[08:50] <Alexandr_> :)
[08:51] <gonzo_> for 5GHz you probably want a 30cm+ dish
[08:51] <gonzo_> and for 2.4GHz, probably a 60cm+ dish
[08:51] <Alexandr_> why 5GHz?
[08:52] <gonzo_> for 2.4gig, mesh dishes perform well
[08:52] <SQ5KVS> Alexandr_: but if Your transmitter or receiver will be in move... forget
[08:53] <gonzo_> on the 5GHz band, the modulation they use is better for onstructed paths. 2.4HGz is ok if line of sight
[08:53] <craag> Ubiquiti kit with the built-in antennas are great.
[08:53] <Alexandr_> no, they are stationary
[08:53] <gonzo_> +1 on ubiquity.
[08:53] <craag> We used 2x ubiquiti nanobeams for a 6km link through trees
[08:53] <Alexandr_> ok, i see
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[08:54] <craag> ~10mbps duplex, went down to ~5mbps when it rained (wet trees are more opaque)
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[08:54] <Alexandr_> which nanobeams do you mean? there are a few on their website
[08:54] <gonzo_> we had a ... 35km? link running with a pair of 60cm M5 units
[08:54] <gonzo_> that was line of sight
[08:54] <craag> We used the NanoBeam M
[08:55] <craag> But I know fsphil has used the NanoStation M with great success.
[08:55] <gonzo_> is that 2.4GHz craag?
[08:55] <craag> gonzo_: No, 5ghz.
[08:55] <gonzo_> rr
[08:56] <craag> Nanostations are probably the best to go for tbh. A lot less visually intrusive.
[08:56] <fsphil> yea 8km with just two naonstation M5's
[08:56] <gonzo_> I think they use ofdm for 5gig, which handles multipath (same as DVB-T)
[08:56] <fsphil> although I didn't do a proper speed test due to only having a Pi on the remote site
[08:57] <fsphil> LOS, no trees though
[08:57] <craag> fsphil: They report throughput on their status page iirc? (we found real throughput was about 10% lower)
[08:57] <gonzo_> I lied, our 35km path was a 60cm dish <> nanpstation
[08:57] <craag> s/throughput/capacity/
[08:58] <fsphil> craag: I ran the speed test and got some odd results. want to re-try it with iperf
[08:58] <fsphil> my nanostation won't get properly installed for another month so will have to wait for that
[08:58] <fsphil> over the 2km path it was getting about 50mbit/s
[09:01] <fsphil> my odd results on the 8km path was 90mbit/s down and about 10mbit/s up
[09:01] <fsphil> using the built-in speed test
[09:02] <SQ5KVS> hm.. send an image by JT9 .... :D
[09:02] <SQ5KVS> for exampe an icon, 32x32 pix :)
[09:04] <fsphil> hah
[09:04] <fsphil> a single jpeg mcu
[09:04] <fsphil> 16x16
[09:08] <SQ5KVS> from PS-41 a one bit should be enough - blue, or not. Blue - balon over the ocean. Not - under the water :D
[09:16] <EI2KK> what about clouds? :)
[09:21] <SQ5KVS> EI2KK: you want to ruin me?
[09:22] <craag> Can also work for the UK
[09:22] <craag> White - above clouds. Grey - under clouds.
[09:22] <craag> Although today is a bit of an anomaly ;)
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[09:40] <EI2KK> well.. what about co.Donegal.. clouds are usualy at knee level here :)
[09:42] <gonzo_> for payloads on the grougd, need a bacon / _bacon flag
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[09:55] <Laurenceb_> PS-41, so close :P
[09:55] Nick change: Guest12864 -> spe
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[09:56] Nick change: spe -> Guest12905
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[09:58] Nick change: Guest12905 -> spe
[09:59] <spe> When pigs can fly...
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[10:11] <SQ5KVS> when? :)
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[10:16] <SQ5KVS> "If you ask without expecting an answer, don't be surprised when You hear an unexpected answer" :)
[10:16] <stevef__> morning
[10:18] <stevef__> does anyone know how i can set the ublox baudrate using u-center
[10:22] <SQ5KVS> You want to change the baundrate in gps module or ublox program?
[10:24] <SQ5KVS> and, did You tried read manual for ublox? :)
[10:25] <SQ5KVS> http://www.drotek.fr/ftp/pdf/ublox_EN.pdf - page 4 & 5
[10:32] <mattbrejza> you can but unless you have an eeprom it wont remember what you set it to
[10:34] <SQ5KVS> it's depending on the eeprom, right. So, If You don't have eeprom on gps, after the reset the speed will be default.
[10:35] <edmoore> it's a good idea to have the flight computer always put the gps into a known state on powerup or if it detects it's gone wrong
[10:37] <stevef__> problem i have is if i run bog std GPS code everything works Ok but if i then run UPU's code my code never works again, but UPU's does its as if UPU's code bricks it - obviously it doesnt
[10:37] <edmoore> so i would parse upu's code
[10:37] <edmoore> understand what it's doing
[10:38] <edmoore> then integrate that into your code
[10:38] <stevef__> i'm wondering if the baudrate is chaning or its chaning it from NEMA to UBX or vics versa
[10:38] <edmoore> you need to look this up
[10:38] <edmoore> the nice thing about hab is that none of the problems are big enough to need someone else's code - you can fit it all in your head
[10:38] <edmoore> it's a great playground for learning in that regard
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[10:40] <stevef__> i think its more that i dont know the ublox, i had hoped power cycling it would return it to defaults but it doesnt seem to
[10:40] <edmoore> oh i see, apologies i misunderstood
[10:40] <fsphil> it only remembers its settings if there is an eeprom or backup battery
[10:40] <edmoore> so it's not making any sense with u-centre at the moment?
[10:40] <stevef__> no battery
[10:42] <edmoore> it should factory reset then - the ublox8 modules have no onboard flash
[10:43] <infaddict> yep, everytime i power cycle my ublox it loses all settings. so my code re-applies them every time i startup.
[10:43] <infaddict> stevef__: how do you know it is not returning to defaults?
[10:43] <day> isnt there a gps almanach?
[10:43] <day> how do the ublox unit save it?
[10:44] <infaddict> they dont when u power down (without battery)
[10:44] <edmoore> a 'cold start' can take 15 minutes because it has to download that
[10:44] <infaddict> cold start again and it redownloads the almanac
[10:44] <day> oh
[10:44] <Vaizki> but you can add a coin cell backup that will keep settings & almanac for a long time
[10:45] <edmoore> which is the beauty of the coin-cell really
[10:45] <edmoore> rather than keeping flight-mode settings
[10:45] <edmoore> you'll re-aquire lock very quickly if you get a power-glitch in flight (or whatever)
[10:47] <Vaizki> every payload should have a gsm module for a-gps
[10:47] <Vaizki> O:)
[10:47] <edmoore> lol
[10:54] <stevef__> infaddict if i use it in u-centre then use the UKHAS emaple code then go back to u-centre it doesnt work
[11:00] <infaddict> what part doesnt work? are you using ucentre to view position information etc?
[11:00] <infaddict> and do u have a link to sample code u r running?
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[11:07] <infaddict> bye steve ;-) and thanks
[11:07] <SQ5KVS> :)
[11:08] <SQ5KVS> btw
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[11:32] <SpeedEvil> https://vine.co/v/euEpIVegiIx wow - they nearly nailed it (spacex)
[11:32] <adamgreig> i want like, the next five seconds
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:34] <russss> looks like a simple enough software fix :P
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[11:34] <SpeedEvil> Or just add a lot of cardboard boxes (fireproofed)
[11:35] <russss> foam pit
[11:36] <gonzo_> huge ball pond
[11:37] <gonzo_> and can hire it out for parties between launches
[11:37] <mattbrejza> just land it sideways in hte first place so it cant fall over
[11:38] <russss> I'm a bit surprised it only spotted that it needed to correct for lateral velocity when it was 25m or so away
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[11:38] <Laurenceb> im not sure thats so easy to fix
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[11:39] <adamgreig> apparently sticktion in a valve added a phase lag
[11:39] <adamgreig> so just add a phase lead compensator and done ;)
[11:40] <Laurenceb> oh god
[11:40] <Laurenceb> ive tried to fix that problem before :-/
[11:40] <Laurenceb> as i was saying...
[11:41] <Laurenceb> did they say that?
[11:41] <Laurenceb> vine not playing?
[11:41] <Laurenceb> im just seeing the first frame
[11:42] <russss> wfm
[11:42] <russss> https://v.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/7A1A091C561199927551154683904_3a5cd1574e0.2.1.51832829461268263.mp4?versionId=1t0RwgC6OwOAcJT4TQOd4zOemeP9waxc
[11:42] <fsphil> vine never works for me
[11:42] <Laurenceb> aha
[11:43] <Laurenceb> lol not loading
[11:43] <SpeedEvil> That is some quite massive gimbal angles on the rocket
[11:44] <Laurenceb> erm yeah
[11:44] <Laurenceb> looks like def control loop issues
[11:44] <Laurenceb> very odd
[11:44] <Laurenceb> id have though they would be able to copy over their stuff from grasshopper
[11:44] <Laurenceb> maybe someone screwed up the code in the meantime
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> '@ID_AA_Carmack Looks like the issue was stiction in the biprop throttle valve, resulting in control system phase lag. Should be easy to fix.
[11:45] <russss> SpeedEvil: yeah I thought that, quite some control authority
[11:45] <SQ5KVS> while(1);
[11:45] <Laurenceb> russss: which actually seemed to make things worse here :P
[11:45] <SQ5KVS> SQ5KVS: No resources
[11:45] <Laurenceb> Should be easy to fix.
[11:45] <Laurenceb> for some values of should and easy
[11:46] <Laurenceb> control loops are horrible
[11:46] <adamgreig> like I said, add a phase lead compensator :P
[11:46] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:46] <Laurenceb> been there, done that
[11:47] <Laurenceb> looks like it was all ok before it got to the platform, which is good
[11:47] <day> did a rocket explode?
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> Well - the fix to stiction is not to add a phase compensator
[11:49] <SpeedEvil> But to fix the valve.
[11:49] <SQ5KVS> they told that the don't have a full record from this place and will publish them later. So , I think, exploded :D
[11:49] <SpeedEvil> That's spin.
[11:49] <SpeedEvil> They most certainly have a full record.
[11:50] <SpeedEvil> The video above diddn't magically cut off at Z=0
[11:50] <russss> he said the full video from the platform wasn't streamed so they'll have to wait until it gets back to port before they can recover it
[11:50] <adamgreig> and yet they have video from what's presumably a plane or helicopter right nearby? :P
[11:51] <russss> the direct cause of it exploding was that it fell over though, they have said that
[11:51] <SQ5KVS> russss: aha.. the have asdl 64kbitps ... Indeed ? :D
[11:51] <SQ5KVS> they
[11:51] <SQ5KVS> has
[11:51] <SQ5KVS> no resources :D
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> Even 64kbits is 600M/day
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[11:52] <russss> well tbh the plane/helicopter would have been able to get back quicker. I think their data handling capability is probably still optimised for engineering rather than PR
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> They're - quite sensibly - waiting till they can get full res video from all cameras available, and cut it together into a media package
[11:53] <SpeedEvil> They may aready have it in fact, and have decided that it's most optimal to release later.
[11:53] <Laurenceb> odd that grasshopper worked ok
[11:54] <Laurenceb> something must have changed
[11:54] <russss> yeah, grasshopper was quite significantly older hardware
[11:57] <Laurenceb> oh of course
[11:57] <Laurenceb> they have "upgraded" all the engine hardware
[11:57] <Laurenceb> woops
[11:58] <russss> yeah testing is hard
[11:58] <daveake> You're thinking Ariane 5 overflow ?
[11:59] <Laurenceb> huh
[11:59] <Laurenceb> its pretty obviously a loop stability issue
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[12:04] <Vaizki> it comes down pretty fast.. is it supposed to descend at that rate all the way down?
[12:05] <russss> no point wasting fuel
[12:06] <adamgreig> is there not? I don't imagine they plan to pump fuel out of a landed stage for re-use
[12:06] <adamgreig> burning it off reduces weight too
[12:07] <SpeedEvil> They plan on only having ~200kg of propellant remaining
[12:08] <russss> yeah but less fuel used on landing means more payload capacity
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> And it's supposed to be able to vary the rate smoothly
[12:08] <SpeedEvil> Inability to do so may cause various issues
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[12:10] <Laurenceb> yeah, the vertical rate decrease looked perfect
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> But if it's trying to smoothly gimbal and then increase or decrease thrust, then go back to centreline - that's going to fuck things up
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> If it can't
[12:12] <infaddict> whats the centre of gravity? pretty tall structure so does it need wide legs upon landing?
[12:13] <Laurenceb> itll be near the bottom
[12:13] <Laurenceb> engines are heavy
[12:13] <Laurenceb> the height is deceptive
[12:13] <Vaizki> and empty fuel tanks are light
[12:14] <fsphil> there are thusters on the very top
[12:15] <fsphil> won't be as heavy as the engines to be fair
[12:15] <infaddict> right i see
[12:16] <Vaizki> but in terms of recent space-related gadgetry (last 30 years), that thing is outrageous
[12:16] <Vaizki> it has some of that attitude which took the US to the moon
[12:22] <daveake> What, fear of the Ruskies?
[12:23] <Ian_> Maybe needs to be weeble shaped . . .
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[12:30] <Laurenceb> this is kind of cool http://www.colder.com/Tabid/72/MaterialID/1/cID/1/sID/73/Products.aspx
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[12:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0311 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
[12:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> !flights
[12:43] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: There are no flights currently :(
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[12:44] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[12:45] <fsphil> there was talk of a launch from the south coast of ireland, but haven't heard anything recently
[12:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Indeed, craag was talking yeterday about an early morning launch!
[12:46] <craag> Hi Geoff-G8DHE
[12:46] <craag> That was tomorrow - and has been scrubbed due to prep not going as planned.
[12:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Ah OK, I won't get up for an early morning tune then ;-)
[12:47] <day> starting from ireland seems kind of ridiculous
[12:48] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: I still have the NOTAM for mornings til sunday - so am watching predictions. Will make final call by this evening (as have to return He if not)
[12:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> No problems, the iCal Bings me when some thing new appears, just not always around when it bings!
[12:49] <fsphil> day: not if you live there
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[12:53] <infaddict> lol fsphil
[12:56] <fsphil> apparently the balloon is being filled
[12:57] <daveake> Have they changed the payload ID ?
[12:57] <fsphil> still don't have a frequency
[12:57] <fsphil> unknown
[12:57] <daveake> I emailed them about that, and the M6JCX, yesterday
[12:57] <Maxell> https://imgur.com/gallery/EoAW5/ Drone base under construction
[12:57] <fsphil> yea the M6JCX thing was odd
[12:58] <daveake> Perfectly normal If there's a fail, they'll find it
[12:58] <fsphil> assuming the config hasn't changed, it'll probably be 434.450
[13:06] <day> fsphil: true :D. But its neither a highaltitude nor close to the equator.
[13:07] <day> a high altitude launch location*
[13:08] <SQ5KVS> fsphil: You have more details?
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[13:36] <fsphil> "ready to release" 30 minutes ago
[13:38] <SQ5KVS> fsphil: ?
[13:38] <fsphil> just getting updates from twitter atm
[13:38] <fsphil> @LIT_SU
[13:39] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Hope that's not the chase vehicle on the right!
[13:39] <fsphil> hah
[13:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W0ZC-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W0ZC-11
[13:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W0ZC-13 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W0ZC-13
[13:40] <SQ5KVS> fsphil: true, but sorry I can't read anything, Could You tell what balloon, from what place, when?
[13:40] <fsphil> south west coast of ireland
[13:40] <fsphil> dunno about the balloon
[13:41] <fsphil> I've been scanning the radio but haven't seen any signal
[13:41] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Cahitsiveen https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Cahersiveen,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=51.947651,-9.714661&spn=1.132568,1.73584&sll=52.8382,-2.327815&sspn=8.883892,13.886719&oq=cahitsiveen&t=h&hnear=Cahersiveen,+County+Kerry,+Ireland&z=9
[13:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Prediction http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=ae622726e07afd22dc00d75bec3a5c0fdf792553
[13:47] <daveake> Given issues so far, here's my predictionhttp://i.imgur.com/dlloiBn.jpg
[13:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Don't think that's likely to get over my horizon even :-(
[13:54] <fsphil> just hope the 434mhz antenna is good
[13:56] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Just looking back at that last tweet, the balloon looks quite well filled ? Don't know its size any thoughts ?
[13:56] <fsphil> they're not going for a float, that much I know
[13:57] <fsphil> that's a lot of mountains and a really big lake it has to fly over
[13:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Yes changing around the prediction has it landing all around the lake!
[14:00] <fsphil> they're not far from where my hipi flight landed
[14:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Didn't that drown ?
[14:02] <fsphil> yep
[14:02] <fsphil> "landed"
[14:02] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> with a splash!
[14:03] <fsphil> scanned over the band, no signal
[14:05] <fsphil> some interesting PSK signals from ISM devices though
[14:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SV3PJL_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SV3PJL_chase
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[14:07] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Oh Edmoore's woken from his afternoon snooze ;-)
[14:07] <edmoore> what?
[14:07] <edmoore> i never sleep
[14:07] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> You went sleep it said!
[14:08] <fsphil> snooze wouldn't be too bad...
[14:08] <edmoore> i exhausted my computer with number bashing obviously
[14:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> :)
[14:09] <fsphil> ok they've launched
[14:09] <fsphil> about 10 minutes ago
[14:10] <fsphil> still don't know the frequency
[14:10] <edmoore> they need to launch a few more times before you can calculate a frequency
[14:10] <fsphil> undefined Hz
[14:10] <fsphil> is 0Hz a frequency
[14:11] <fsphil> discuss
[14:11] <edmoore> yes
[14:11] <Laurenceb> sqrt(-1)Hz
[14:11] <fsphil> well that was easy
[14:13] <tweetBot> @G8DHE: @LIT_SU @LimerickIT And the Frequency for tracking & callsign are ?
[14:13] <tweetBot> #ukhas #hab
[14:15] <mattbrejza> well if they havnt changed the callsign i think we can assume they havnt changed the frequnecy
[14:16] <mattbrejza> whats the default?
[14:16] <fsphil> 434.450 I believe
[14:16] <mattbrejza> yep https://github.com/PiInTheSky/pits/blob/master/boot/pisky.txt
[14:25] <fsphil> this would be easier if I could see more than 3khz at a time
[14:27] <edmoore> spoilt brat
[14:27] <fsphil> yes :(
[14:27] <edmoore> so hangon, someone has launched as M6JCX?
[14:27] <edmoore> from some old code they found online?
[14:27] <fsphil> M6JCX was used as the receiver callsign when they where testing
[14:27] <daveake> No, set up dl-fldigi as callsign M6JCX
[14:27] <daveake> and a location in NL
[14:28] <edmoore> oh fine
[14:28] <edmoore> well still silly
[14:28] <daveake> they were told yesterday
[14:28] <edmoore> but not punishable by death
[14:28] <daveake> no, that's reserved for people who put the pits card on upside down and reversed
[14:28] <fsphil> it's odd though, unless jcoxon was helping them setup
[14:28] <daveake> pass
[14:29] <Laurenceb> can someone check my ublox code pls?
[14:29] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32_Launcher/blob/master/Ublox/ubx.h
[14:29] <craag> Maybe they used a git build that had M6JCX as a default callsign?
[14:29] <infaddict> aha M6JCX = jcoxon
[14:29] <Laurenceb> im using the "AIR_4G_3D" config
[14:29] <infaddict> sry i'm playing catch up
[14:29] <fsphil> what's the shift on pits boards these days?
[14:29] <Laurenceb> should that be good for operation at altitude?
[14:29] <daveake> 910
[14:29] <Laurenceb> setting "air mode"
[14:29] <fsphil> I have a potential signal but the shift is very low
[14:30] <daveake> I assumed James had written a "how to" and they'd literally followed it to the letter
[14:30] <fsphil> ah
[14:30] <fsphil> that'd make sensee
[14:30] <fsphil> got a signal with 300hz shift
[14:30] <fsphil> it's a payload
[14:30] <fsphil> $$NSEOP1
[14:30] <fsphil> it's doing ssdv
[14:30] <infaddict> presume theres no flight doc?
[14:30] <Laurenceb> lol
[14:30] <daveake> haha
[14:31] <infaddict> !flights
[14:31] <SpacenearUS> 03infaddict: There are no flights currently :(
[14:31] <fsphil> yea getting image data
[14:31] <daveake> dunno how it can be 300
[14:31] <fsphil> 434.454
[14:31] <fsphil> coordinates match, it's them
[14:31] <daveake> not a s/w configurable thing
[14:31] <infaddict> image just arrived on http://ssdv.habhub.org/
[14:32] <daveake> cool well they put the right aeriel into the right socket
[14:32] <infaddict> not a great image however
[14:32] <infaddict> 26 missing
[14:32] <fsphil> I'm the only receiver, and it's still quite weak
[14:33] <Laurenceb> going up?
[14:33] <infaddict> wheres the payload roughly fsphil? any lat/long?
[14:33] <fsphil> 54.044, -9.something
[14:33] <fsphil> sorry
[14:33] <fsphil> 52.04441, -9.9483
[14:33] <fsphil> 11km altitude
[14:34] <fsphil> going up
[14:34] <fsphil> I could use an eye of morder yagi like UpuWork
[14:35] <infaddict> So its near the coast of Country Kerry
[14:35] <adamgreig> hmm this ublox is so deaf ;( even after i tell it the current almanac and ephemeris and its current time and location and it's hanging out the window, it occasionally glimpses one GLONASS sat
[14:35] <edmoore> fun to say
[14:35] <adamgreig> something's up
[14:35] <edmoore> yes
[14:35] <mattbrejza> adamgreig: max8?
[14:35] <adamgreig> yea
[14:35] <adamgreig> m8
[14:36] <mattbrejza> had no issues (unlike those max7s.... ¬.¬ )
[14:36] <Laurenceb> maybe power supply?
[14:36] <edmoore> something is up
[14:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> Launch picture of site looks like here 51.94359, -10.24531 http://goo.gl/maps/6aZEM
[14:36] <edmoore> toughed rf_in?
[14:36] <fsphil> they launched from the met office sonde site Geoff-G8DHE
[14:36] <edmoore> touched*
[14:36] <adamgreig> it's possible
[14:36] <fsphil> think it's called valencia (sp?)
[14:36] <infaddict> prediction is very close to coast mind
[14:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah right
[14:36] <adamgreig> it's a bench supply feeding an AD LDO and plenty decoupling
[14:37] <mattbrejza> fsphil: how come its not getting to snus?
[14:37] <fsphil> I'm not decoding anything beyond 2 ssdv packets
[14:38] <fsphil> signal is very weak
[14:38] <fsphil> no idea why the launch team isn't uploading
[14:38] <mattbrejza> oh right
[14:38] <fsphil> well I have idaes
[14:38] <fsphil> ideas*
[14:38] <mattbrejza> should you be, or is that expected for the distance?
[14:38] <daveake> I shall refrain from commenting
[14:38] <adamgreig> rf in is under a thin layer of the spray on acrylic stuff too though
[14:38] <fsphil> it's not that far away, signal should be better
[14:38] <bradfirj> fsphil: If they're launching from limerick I'm impressed you're getting anything at all
[14:38] <bradfirj> There's a few sizeable hills in your way
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[14:39] <fsphil> bradfirj: it's high enough now to be line of sight
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[14:39] <fsphil> ah there we go
[14:39] <bradfirj> Oh right I thought it was just launching
[14:39] <fsphil> got a full string
[14:39] <fsphil> nah they launched about 40 minutes ago
[14:39] <fsphil> and no flight doc
[14:39] <fsphil> arg
[14:39] <bradfirj> Ach sure it'll be fine
[14:40] <craag> uni teams
[14:40] <fsphil> 52.06527 -9.50483 13km altitude
[14:40] <craag> don't need no payload docs ;)
[14:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.met.ie/about/valentiaobservatory/
[14:40] <bradfirj> Irish uni teams*
[14:40] <craag> *all* uni teams
[14:40] <craag> trust me ;)
[14:40] <fsphil> some more image data
[14:40] <fsphil> looks like clouds
[14:41] <mattbrejza> well they did better than the one in scotland recently
[14:41] <daveake> hmm where did they point the camera?
[14:41] <mattbrejza> *are doing
[14:42] <Laurenceb> down
[14:43] <Laurenceb> by the look of it
[14:43] <infaddict> yep looks down to me
[14:44] <mattbrejza> still no telemetry?
[14:44] <mattbrejza> or just no doc?
[14:45] <daveake> there's no payload doc
[14:45] <fsphil> making one up. because I'm nice like that
[14:45] <mattbrejza> lol i just did one
[14:45] <fsphil> ah beat me to it
[14:45] <daveake> Copy the pi_sky_plus one :)
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[14:45] <fsphil> I've not had a valid string in a while
[14:46] <fsphil> http://ssdv.habhub.org/NSEOP1
[14:47] <fsphil> camera must be aimed down
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[14:48] <mattbrejza> well more cloudy than it is here
[14:48] <mattbrejza> not sure ive seen a cloud all day
[14:48] <fsphil> http://piview.sanslogic.co.uk/webcam/image.jpeg
[14:48] <fsphil> looking roughtly in that direction
[14:48] <infaddict> UK very hit and miss today. 24 and blue sky in SE, 12 and raining in Manchester ;-)
[14:49] <edmoore> when are you moving south again infaddict ?
[14:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NSEOP1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NSEOP1
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[14:49] <fsphil> there they are
[14:50] <infaddict> edmoore: sometime in the summer, likely August time. My son has to finish exams (end of June), my wife has to find a job and then we need to sell/buy a house.
[14:50] <edmoore> wow
[14:50] <edmoore> busy few months then
[14:50] <infaddict> yep!
[14:50] <SQ5KVS> ha
[14:50] <SQ5KVS> better late than never
[14:50] <infaddict> oh and my first HAB launch at some point hehe
[14:50] <edmoore> + hab :)
[14:50] <fsphil> signal's improving
[14:50] <UpuWork> just yell when you're ready infaddict
[14:50] <fsphil> sorta
[14:50] <UpuWork> also
[14:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Quite a bit different from the standard prediction
[14:50] <UpuWork> worrying its got to 15km with no reception :/
[14:51] <mattbrejza> and payload doc
[14:51] <infaddict> ooh its on the tracker, good work guys
[14:51] <UpuWork> impressive
[14:51] <UpuWork> not enough gas in it either :/
[14:51] <edmoore> who is flying it?
[14:51] <edmoore> i might sound like an old person asking same questions
[14:52] <fsphil> uni in limerick
[14:52] <fsphil> mechanical engineering
[14:52] <infaddict> will do UpuWork! let me know if you have any planned and I'll drive down to watch and learn if thats ok.
[14:52] <UpuWork> sure will do
[14:52] <UpuWork> Need Mike
[14:52] <UpuWork> also 0x07
[14:52] <UpuWork> ping seventeen_
[14:53] <UpuWork> already on th emap
[14:53] <edmoore> there was once a hab launch called nseop
[14:54] <daveake> 4.36m/s between those last 2
[14:54] <edmoore> about ukhas, they couldn't be bothered to read-up
[14:55] <edmoore> meh fill in the rest
[14:55] <fsphil> 0x07 receiving
[14:55] <dbrooke> they followed https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide a bit too closely to begin with
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[14:55] <Reb-SM3ULC> so, PS-41 is soon doing "one" lap :)
[14:55] <Laurenceb> third team to circumnavigate
[14:56] <dbrooke> so they must have known about UKHAS
[14:56] <Laurenceb> impressive rate of progress in one year
[14:57] <edmoore> once you crack float, about circumnavigating you can gloat
[14:57] <fsphil> the tracker seems to have stopped updating
[14:58] <gonzo_> or else it will be a....... Hmm, need a rhyme ed?
[14:58] <CraigChapman> Afternoon all
[14:58] Nick change: CraigChapman -> KF5WYX
[14:59] <edmoore> when the tracker doth crash, the chase-car throttle must thrash
[14:59] <KF5WYX> when the poetry gets weird, introduce beer.
[15:00] <edmoore> for if rely on the packets of others you do, then in their absense, up shit creek are you
[15:00] <gonzo_> and in your tracker code, don't forget the flight mode
[15:00] <SQ5KVS> KF5WYX: you mistake cause and effects
[15:01] <KF5WYX> :-P
[15:01] <seventeen_> pong upu
[15:01] <UpuWork> hi there
[15:01] <UpuWork> its ok :)
[15:01] <UpuWork> you have it
[15:02] <UpuWork> unping :)
[15:02] <edmoore> if direction you lose, and to irc you flee, get not with us naggy, get yourself a yagi
[15:02] <seventeen_> ok. Watching the wrong screen
[15:02] <edmoore> it's all happening in the irc window tbh
[15:02] <fsphil> we're not sure what it is yet though
[15:03] <UpuWork> what frequency is it on fsphil ?
[15:03] <fsphil> 434.453
[15:03] <UpuWork> oh lol the camera is facing down
[15:03] <edmoore> if an oscilloscope you cannot afford, yet buy one you do, maybe leave work early, and have several drinks in london
[15:03] <dbrooke> I thought edmoore was building up for a haiku for a moment and then he went too long
[15:03] <fsphil> yoda would be proud
[15:03] <UpuWork> oh my radio isn't connected to the antenna :/
[15:03] <UpuWork> never mind
[15:03] <fsphil> my vnc link to home has died
[15:03] <edmoore> air makes the best coax
[15:04] <UpuWork> at least they connected the battery
[15:04] <KF5WYX> edmoore: I miss drinking in london.
[15:05] <edmoore> if disconnected you are, and no signal you see, then the answer, my friend, is to attach a BNC
[15:05] <edmoore> KF5WYX, i've not had much opportunity to miss it as i've always lived fairly near
[15:05] <edmoore> tho never in
[15:05] <daveake> There once was a HAB team in Eire
[15:05] <daveake> Who sent a balloon in the air
[15:05] <daveake> They decide to hack it
[15:05] <daveake> Uploaded no packet
[15:05] <daveake> And now it could be anywhere
[15:06] <fsphil> oh it's dl-fldigi that crashed
[15:07] <fsphil> back on
[15:07] <dbrooke> very appropriate daveake
[15:07] <daveake> I could go on, but I can't think of a word to rhyme with anchors
[15:08] <Reb-SM3ULC> fsphil: multipsk has a purpose, to make fl-digi look amazingly :)
[15:08] <gonzo_> what freq do we have for them?
[15:08] <SQ5KVS> anyway, the balloons with broken antenna are very often ;D
[15:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> !dial NSEOP1
[15:08] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: There are no flights currently :(
[15:08] <edmoore> thankfully they're less frequent now
[15:08] <edmoore> people realise that some bits of unsupported solid core wire are not a good idea
[15:08] <SQ5KVS> in SP it happend few times.
[15:08] <fsphil> 434.453 gonzo_
[15:09] <fsphil> yes don't use solid core wire. it'll land in yorkshire
[15:09] <gonzo_> I'll have a look if it gets closer/higher
[15:09] <gonzo_> ta
[15:09] <daveake> I wonder if the downward-pointing camera is deliberate
[15:09] <daveake> or it was a dodgy launch
[15:10] <SQ5KVS> edmoore: especially when ballon have a rotation and is really cold
[15:10] <SQ5KVS> so
[15:10] <SQ5KVS> we decide
[15:10] <SQ5KVS> to develop ballons without antenna :D
[15:10] <edmoore> there once was a camera faced down/ whose photos caused listeners to frown/ for cloud is quite boring/ and hams started snoring/ and they didn't notice when the payload came down
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[15:10] <edmoore> oh i double-downed
[15:11] <edmoore> ruining what was otherwise an exceptionally bit of doggeral
[15:11] <kemfic> anybody on?
[15:11] <edmoore> exceptional*
[15:11] <edmoore> everyone is on kemfic
[15:11] <edmoore> fire away
[15:11] <SQ5KVS> kemfic: bots only
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[15:11] <kemfic> I'm new to the HAB community, I have some issues with the tracking and communication with the payload
[15:11] <Vaizki> I'm not on anything, I just passed a drug screen
[15:12] <edmoore> kemfic, go ahead
[15:12] <kemfic> I don't know anything about this
[15:12] <edmoore> you've come to the right place then
[15:12] <daveake> www.ukhas.org.uk
[15:12] <fsphil> indeed
[15:12] <daveake> ^^ read
[15:12] <kemfic> I know that
[15:12] <kemfic> thats where I got the channel from
[15:12] <adamgreig> ugh
[15:12] <fsphil> lol
[15:12] <adamgreig> i took my ublox outdoors
[15:12] <daveake> "I don't know anything about this" ... then read more :)
[15:13] <adamgreig> in the middle of the garden
[15:13] <kemfic> Do you need a ham radio license for sdr
[15:13] <Vaizki> no
[15:13] <edmoore> not to receive
[15:13] <adamgreig> and it manages to lock alright
[15:13] <fsphil> you only need a license to transmit on ham frequencies
[15:13] <kemfic> I also want to transmit
[15:13] <daveake> and powers
[15:13] <kemfic> yeah you answered my question
[15:13] <adamgreig> https://agg.io/u/m2r_gps.png is that OK or a bit weaker than you'd expect for clear sight of the sky?
[15:13] <daveake> We generally use low-power licence-free transmitters
[15:13] <kemfic> Is a usb SDR reliable
[15:13] <gonzo_> kemfic, what country are you in?
[15:13] <mattbrejza> adamgreig: yea
[15:13] <edmoore> then you'll need a ham license kemfic for anything interesting
[15:13] <russss> for some values of "interesting" :)
[15:14] <adamgreig> you'll need a ham licence for most of the boring things too :p
[15:14] <kemfic> I am planning on using a GSM tracker, a SPOT tracker, and a phone In case for emergencies
[15:14] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: not sure what's up. it works alright but yea, seems way weak
[15:14] <kemfic> US
[15:14] <kemfic> CA
[15:14] <adamgreig> kinda want to blame the LNA
[15:14] <edmoore> difference between gsm tracker and phone?
[15:14] <fsphil> ah the land without water
[15:14] <kemfic> none
[15:14] <daveake> On the plus side, NSEOP1 is in flight mode
[15:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> kemfic, There is an ISM band within an Amateur band, so provided you meet the requirements of the ISM your fine to transmit.
[15:14] <kemfic> Just put the phone for backup
[15:14] <fsphil> Geoff-G8DHE: not in the US
[15:14] <edmoore> fine
[15:14] <SQ5KVS> there are some frequencies where you don't need the license, called ISM (industrial something .....), but this freq. typically have noisy and there are power limits to transmit on them
[15:14] <gonzo_> your options in terms of airborn telemetry transmitters are far wider in the US, then here in the UK
[15:15] <edmoore> so we generally get much better performance from a radio transmitting throughout the flight
[15:15] <edmoore> and generally only use gsm/spot as nice-to-have backups
[15:15] <Reb-SM3ULC> kemfic: all those are pretty hard to track with a generic radio plus antenna on the ground
[15:15] <kemfic> I also wanted a Pi in the sky, but it transmits at 434 Mhz
[15:15] <mattbrejza> adamgreig: i did the ESD protection cap+inductor from the datasheet, which actually just killed the signal
[15:15] <UpuWork> we have an APRS board for it
[15:15] <SQ5KVS> and , you have know the regulations in Your country
[15:15] <mattbrejza> although is this the upu approved lna? ( adamgreig )
[15:15] <Reb-SM3ULC> kemfic: 434 mhz not ok?
[15:16] <daveake> needs ham license in usa
[15:16] <kemfic> yeah i need a license
[15:16] <edmoore> technician class though only, probably
[15:16] <daveake> get it - it's easy
[15:16] <edmoore> which i understand is extremely easy to get
[15:16] <kemfic> the next exam is in 1 day
[15:16] <edmoore> cram
[15:16] <daveake> yes technician class is enough
[15:16] <kemfic> like a 40 min drive from my house
[15:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes outside of Europe you will need a radio license ..
[15:16] <kemfic> dammit
[15:17] <daveake> just do it
[15:17] <kemfic> ok
[15:17] <mattbrejza> (TM)
[15:17] <kemfic> I saw the study guide and it has like 120 pages
[15:17] <edmoore> that png doesn't load for me adamgreig , streangely
[15:17] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: this is one of the LNAs I think UpuWork found OK?
[15:17] <gonzo_> at least you need one person in your team with a ham licence
[15:17] <kemfic> I'm going to be that person
[15:17] <gonzo_> and that is useful for the radio experience
[15:17] <adamgreig> ALM-2712 UpuWork ?
[15:17] <SQ5KVS> 120 pages not so much :D
[15:17] <UpuWork> Darkside found them
[15:17] <SQ5KVS> but
[15:17] <kemfic> everyone in my team told me to do it
[15:17] <UpuWork> hmm ?
[15:18] <UpuWork> for gps ?
[15:18] <SQ5KVS> what about CB freq's (I know, the antenna is a bit longer)
[15:18] <gonzo_> depending on your backgrround, it is probably notb that hard
[15:18] <Reb-SM3ULC> daveake: oh, totally missed that
[15:18] <kemfic> how many usb webcams can a raspi use
[15:18] <SQ5KVS> the CB isn't licensed in USA , right?
[15:18] <adamgreig> edmoore: nothing better than 30dB, most around 20dB
[15:19] <adamgreig> it should just be a normal PNG :p
[15:19] <edmoore> yeah
[15:19] <edmoore> being screwing
[15:19] <edmoore> i am sockings through my phone to kraken
[15:19] <edmoore> but i don't see how that makes a diff
[15:19] <edmoore> socksing*
[15:20] <KF5WYX> In competition for dumbest mistake. I told my AX.25 protocol class to package up the flag 0x7E through the same function which checks for five 1's and inserts a zero. Am I close to a win?
[15:21] <edmoore> you are giving a class on the ax.25 protocol?
[15:21] <edmoore> hab university?
[15:21] <KF5WYX> not an instructional class, a C++ class. Okay, you win.
[15:21] <KF5WYX> :-P
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[15:22] <kemfic> can the Pi in the sky transmit serial?
[15:22] <edmoore> keep your use of c++ classes private
[15:22] <edmoore> kemfic, yes - rtty is basically just (slow compared to normal) serial
[15:23] <kemfic> can the PITS send at least 2 fps video?
[15:23] <edmoore> no
[15:23] <edmoore> well maybe if the video is absurdly tiny
[15:23] <daveake> You can plug the composite out into a video sender
[15:23] <fsphil> spoke to the launch team. yes camera is suppose to be pointing down :)
[15:23] <kemfic> ?
[15:23] <daveake> wow
[15:23] <fsphil> their laptop died
[15:24] <fsphil> heading to the predicted landing site now
[15:24] <daveake> they probably jammed the PSU into a USB or something
[15:25] <kemfic> any usb dongles recommended for sdr?
[15:25] <SQ5KVS> computers are evil!!
[15:25] <daveake> fsphil are they laptop-less then ?
[15:25] <fsphil> they're not evil. they're just programmed that way
[15:25] <kemfic> they're stupid but fast
[15:26] <fsphil> not anymore it seems, they where looking for the signal so I presume the laptop is going again
[15:26] <daveake> ah ok
[15:26] <SQ5KVS> with computers you can do things faster, but without computers you don't need do this at all :D
[15:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> something vaguely on my w/f at last but not decodeable yet
[15:26] <kemfic> ha
[15:26] <fsphil> hint of a coastline in that picture
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[15:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> kemfic, most dongles will work, but Airspy and FCDPro are better than most
[15:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/NSEOP1_20150415/index.php?ind=1
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[15:30] <SQ5KVS> bye
[15:30] <edmoore> yep. https://twitter.com/iamdevloper/status/588355053104267264
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[15:31] <daveake> :)
[15:32] <fsphil> oh it burst
[15:32] <fsphil> earlier than I thought it would
[15:34] <fsphil> "Macroom" .. wonder if they have an apple store there
[15:34] <mattbrejza> i hope they had other cameras on board
[15:35] <kemfic> thanks
[15:36] <kemfic> what about the FUNcube
[15:36] <fsphil> the funcube pro+ work pretty well
[15:36] <kemfic> better than the Airspy and FCDPro
[15:36] <kemfic> ?
[15:36] <fsphil> FCDPro == Funcube Pro
[15:36] <kemfic> oehw
[15:36] <kemfic> oh
[15:36] <fsphil> there is an old model and a Plus model
[15:36] <fsphil> avoid the old one
[15:37] <kemfic> so i should get the plus
[15:37] <fsphil> yes
[15:37] <kemfic> Was your first flight and tracking hard?
[15:37] <fsphil> the old one was easily overloaded by strong signals
[15:37] <kemfic> ok
[15:37] <fsphil> my first flight was good fun. but it was a large team so I had less to do
[15:37] <kemfic> what about the Eggfinder
[15:37] <kemfic> ?
[15:37] <fsphil> solo flights are a bit more stress
[15:38] <kemfic> oh
[15:38] <kemfic> well i have a team of four, but it feels like solo
[15:38] <edmoore> save solo for once you've done one or two
[15:38] <kemfic> im the only one doing stuff
[15:38] <edmoore> one to build a hab is fine
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[15:38] <edmoore> but have one driver and one radio/laptop operator in the chase car
[15:38] <kemfic> ok
[15:39] <edmoore> for your first go
[15:39] <kemfic> i'm an 8th grader, I cant drive
[15:40] <edmoore> get a driver
[15:41] <kemfic> ok class is over thanks for your help i gotta go
[15:43] <fsphil> this is quite a nice image coming down now. shame I'm not going to get it all
[15:44] <infaddict> yep fsphil a clearing in the clouyd
[15:44] <fsphil> hopefully they recover this, should have some nice pics on the SD card
[15:44] <infaddict> Guessing thats the harbour
[15:45] <fsphil> signal's fading
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[15:50] <fsphil> partial string at 10km alt
[15:52] <mattbrejza> i guess having a chasecar on the map is asking a bit much
[15:52] <fsphil> they ran out of internet
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[15:53] <fsphil> that's it for me
[15:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/NSEOP1_20150415/index.php?ind=3
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[15:55] <infaddict> well done fsphil, good effort
[15:56] <tweetBot> @philcrump2: Sunrise HAB Launch cancelled tomorrow due to preparation delays. Prediction for rest of the week is wet landings. In summer perhaps! #ukhas
[15:56] <fsphil> predicted landing site is basically the middle of nowhere
[15:56] <fsphil> I'll be surprised if they get a gsm (I think they have a gsm backup)
[15:56] <bradfirj> fsphil: Hahah killarney national park
[15:57] <bradfirj> They'll be lucky
[15:57] <Laurenceb> hits Arnie on the head?
[15:57] <bradfirj> Rally of the lakes I went a full weekend without getting signal once
[15:57] <Laurenceb> terminator hab
[15:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Somewhere around Gneevgullia I should think ....
[15:58] <fsphil> hopefully it works before it lands, cause it sounds like they're having trouble with the radio receivers
[15:58] <fsphil> might be enough to get them in the rough area
[15:59] <bradfirj> Do people not test these things?
[15:59] <fsphil> sadly not
[15:59] <infaddict> i've seen a trend where if you're not paying for it you are less bothered about it working or losing it. not in all cases of course.
[16:00] <bradfirj> The premade tracker kits lead to a bit of that I suspect
[16:00] <x-f> "every flight is a test flight"
[16:00] <bradfirj> When it's something you've designed and built yourself, you take a bit more care!
[16:00] <edmoore> bradfirj, i think you're right
[16:01] <edmoore> was nicer before they existed
[16:01] <fsphil> this flight was launched without knowing if it was even transmitting
[16:02] <x-f> :|
[16:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-42 after 0314 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-42
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[16:04] <fsphil> and on the other side of the planet
[16:05] <fsphil> that is about as far from anywhere as you can get
[16:05] <fsphil> !whereis PS-42
[16:05] <SpacenearUS> 03fsphil: 03PS-42 is over 03South Pacific Ocean 10(-32.31601,-132.565) at 039015 meters
[16:08] <bradfirj> habhub telemetry graph screws up a bit with those infrequent telemetry bursts
[16:08] <bradfirj> Should really do interpolation or somethiing
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[16:13] <Laurenceb> as long as matlab is avoided
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[16:16] <lz1dev> bradfirj: there is no point interpolating over such large gaps
[16:16] <lz1dev> you can just zoom in at the point you want
[16:18] <Vaizki> The Schwarz is strong in my car
[16:18] <Vaizki> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cul0k4vyy28ilor/photo%2015.4.2015%2019.09.29.jpg?dl=0
[16:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ooh Look a Floppy disc!
[16:19] <Vaizki> Oh yes
[16:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> You keep that and past the rest out to us then ?
[16:21] <Vaizki> I gave the link to the Wales auction many times :)
[16:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> :)
[16:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> I didn't want a floppy anyway ;-)
[16:24] <Laurenceb> omg
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[16:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Looks like PS-41 might make it! http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/PS-41/
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[16:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03J2314289 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=J2314289
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[17:52] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[17:53] <fsphil> payload recovered
[17:53] <fsphil> gsm worked
[17:54] <Lunar_Lander> yay!
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[17:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Pa1mar_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Pa1mar_chase
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[18:02] <newburyham> does anyone know if there was a launch. planned for today in Berkshire?
[18:05] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[18:06] <fsphil> hadn't heard
[18:06] Nick change: gary -> Guest20312
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[18:08] <Guest20312> Should I be getting a beer out the fridge for PS 41? It will be the first round in the southern hemisphere will it not?? Or did they already get one around??
[18:08] <fsphil> nothing on notaminfo in that area either
[18:08] <newburyham> OK. only asking. I'm at gym and I've just witnessed 2 launches. probably without payloads in Newbury Racecourse. No radio to check with ATM.
[18:08] <fsphil> ooh
[18:09] <fsphil> not sure what that would be
[18:09] <newburyham> could be non-radio related and that might not know about permissions requirements.
[18:10] <newburyham> can't load up websdr ATM either. I don't want to stop running till I've done my target. :(
[18:12] <newburyham> I don't want to become fatnewburyham :p
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[18:27] <Jartza> talking about radio :D
[18:28] <Jartza> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ua67kvk1qjk46ct/1429114280.mp4
[18:28] <Jartza> Tagsu modem seems to work over FM radio too :)
[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> yay!
[18:31] <fsphil> I've lost a box of dev boards. how'd I manage that. it was a big box
[18:32] Action: fsphil needs to start putting radio trackers on everything
[18:33] <Reb-SM3ULC> J23 coming down
[18:35] <lz1dev> fsphil: then you can figure out who ate your sandwitch
[18:36] <fsphil> I had a sandwitch? Didn't know, she must be sneaky
[18:36] <newburyham> Nom Nom
[18:37] <fsphil> I am quite hungry now that you mention it
[18:37] <fsphil> but no, must find this box first
[18:37] <newburyham> done running, home for food then shower. food first.
[18:42] <lz1dev> fsphil: :>
[18:45] <fsphil> yes
[18:45] <fsphil> yes indeed
[18:46] <mikestir> fsphil: that pulseaudio sample rate bug - do you know if the fix has found its way into any distros yet?
[18:48] <fsphil> it seemed to be fixed in fedora for a while
[18:49] <fsphil> although lately I've been having other problems with it
[18:49] <mikestir> seems to still be present in mint 17
[18:49] <mikestir> the fix was committed in august 2013
[18:49] <fsphil> the bug I was seeing previously was where the waterfall would start moving faster than normal
[18:49] <fsphil> that was fixed about a year ago
[18:49] <fsphil> in fedora
[18:50] <mikestir> that's probably the one. only on monitor loopback?
[18:50] <fsphil> yes
[18:50] <fsphil> current problem is something in PA is messing up the audio
[18:50] <mikestir> also makes the decoders unusable because the baud rate ends up wrong
[18:50] <fsphil> I think the only reliable fix is the UDP audio output from gqrx > fldigi
[18:51] <fsphil> woo, dev boards found
[18:51] <fsphil> and chance of aurora tonight
[18:53] <x-f> that is why it is raining now..
[18:53] <mikestir> do you remember we discussed those high-end PIC32 micros for doing pico ssdv? I've finally got chance to play with one. they're pretty good
[18:53] <fsphil> yea I've heard the PIC32's fix a lot of the issues of the smaller ones
[18:53] <fsphil> no memory banks!
[18:53] <mikestir> well it's not really a pic in any way
[18:53] <fsphil> do they have a good C compiler?
[18:53] <mikestir> it's MIPS
[18:54] <mikestir> yeah it's gcc but microchip cripple it and make you pay to enable the optimiser
[18:54] <fsphil> oh that's nice
[18:54] <mikestir> except they do comply with the gpl so you can just get the source and compile it with that bit commented out
[18:55] <mikestir> or in fact it's easier than that. you can replace their license manager utility with a program consisting of int main(void) { return 2; }
[18:55] <fsphil> the ssdv encoder is pretty simple C code, so should work anywhere gcc works
[18:55] <fsphil> how would you get images into it?
[18:55] <mikestir> the thing that made them attractive vs arm is the 512K of SRAM on chip
[18:55] <fsphil> mmmm
[18:55] <mikestir> however it's even better than that - they have a basic MMU and they can memory map external serial memories as well
[18:56] <fsphil> that's enough ram to hold a 384x288 raw rgb image
[18:56] <fsphil> can it DMA into memory from a camera?
[18:56] <fsphil> you could use a cheap cmos sensor
[18:56] <fsphil> jpeg encoding wouldn't be beyond it
[18:57] <fsphil> though probably not fast, but at 300 baud that's not an issue
[18:57] <mattbrejza> tbh i think the stm32 parts will encode to jpg on the fly
[18:57] <fsphil> yea
[18:57] <mikestir> yeah but memory is the problem
[18:58] <mikestir> a solution that avoids external DRAM would be great
[18:58] <mattbrejza> well you wouldnt need the ram if you did it on hte fly
[18:58] <fsphil> the mcu on the f4disco board has 192kb
[18:58] <fsphil> enough for the jpeg if the real time encoding can work
[18:58] <richardeoin> mikestr: I've been able to workaround the pulseaudio sample rate bug on mint 17
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[18:59] <mikestir> hmm: two 16 pixel high strips in ping-ping, one being encoded and the other being input
[18:59] <richardeoin> default-sample-rate = 48000 in /etc/pulse/daemon.conf does the trick
[18:59] <mikestir> be nice if it was fast enough to do that
[18:59] <mikestir> richardeoin: thanks I'll try that
[19:00] <richardeoin> mikestir: from http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=989456&p=6225657#post6225657
[19:00] <fsphil> ah I must see if that fixes my fedora bug too
[19:01] <fsphil> or I can stop being lazy and add an rtty demod to gqrx :)
[19:02] <mikestir> mattbrejza: I'm not convinced the stm32 would do jpeg on the fly without some M4-specific optimisations. do you know if anyone's tried that? I guess the SIMD features would speed up the DCT a lot
[19:02] <richardeoin> fsphil: yeah I'm not sure if it works generally but give it a try
[19:03] <mattbrejza> not that i know of
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[19:26] <bradfirj> fsphil: At least one stm32f4 has an external memory controller that can DMA into external SDRAM
[19:27] <fsphil> yea one of my dev boards has that
[19:28] <mattbrejza> its just more board space,wiring etc
[19:28] <fsphil> just playing with the dac atm
[19:28] <fsphil> trying to make radio waves
[19:28] <bradfirj> dac is nice, I have one driving an ntx2b
[19:30] <adamgreig> fsphil: richardeoin: i was having sample rate issues before, but went away when i made a sink just for gqrx
[19:30] <adamgreig> so now gqrx outputs into its own null sink at 48kHz and I set fldigi to input from monitor of gqrx
[19:31] <adamgreig> by not going through the main system audio sink, i don't need to touch pulse default SR settings
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[19:45] <adamgreig> but yea if we could add UDP input to fldigi that'd be superb :p
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[20:20] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhMSzC1crr0
[20:21] <fsphil> big badda boom
[20:21] <fsphil> those poor little thusters at the top. they had no hope
[20:22] <geo_> quit
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[20:22] <fsphil> the power of suggestion
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[20:25] <Upu> wasn't far off though
[20:25] <Upu> was really trying as well :)
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[20:26] <fsphil> yes many points for aim
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[20:37] <x-f> SpaceX made that video private now :/
[20:37] <arko> lame
[20:38] <Ian_> Managed to see it first.
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05khw-Au24M
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> copy
[20:42] <mattbrejza> rockets seem to blow up pretty easily
[20:44] <jcoxon> Drone Ship blew up :-(
[20:44] <jcoxon> https://twitter.com/TheDroneShip
[20:45] <russss> I'm sure the people who make those hydraulic propulsion pods are enjoying spacex's custom
[20:45] <russss> https://twitter.com/SpaceXEngineer/status/588375834030776320
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[20:48] <russss> video re-posted here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAzwuEmZcmE
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[20:50] <russss> it's kind of amazing how big a bang a few hundred kgs of lox/RP-1 can make
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> Don't forget the 200m^3 of GOX@80PSI
[20:52] <russss> oh, true
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[21:07] <amell> how long would it normally take for an M8N straight from china to get first lock?
[21:07] <amell> its been sat outside for 30 mins, and still only 4 sometime 5 sats.
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[21:15] <mcbcurator> Upu, got the PITS all tested today. New unit appears to be working fine.
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[21:17] <Upu> super good to heard mcbcurator
[21:18] <mcbcurator> APRS wasn't working, though I've got to poke at that and figure out why. Might just be that I was too far away from it - I only thought to test it at the end of a distance test. (Dismayingly short range on the ground - maybe 250m of readable RTTY!)
[21:19] <amell> 1 hour now, and still only 6 sats with hdop=2.6m - this is ridiculous
[21:19] <amell> we need to launch more GPS sats
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[21:24] <Reb-SM3ULC> pretty close try form spacex though. just a tad bit slower and they might make it....
[21:26] <Upu> M8N ?
[21:26] <Upu> oh the neo
[21:27] <mcbcurator> Question for the group: What's the effective difference in RX range between an RTL-SDR and a "real" radio? We don't own a real radio, and the prices are scary for something that does SSB.
[21:28] <Upu> Airspy ?
[21:29] <KF5WYX> The source and destination SSID's in an APRS packet are twos complement?
[21:29] <Upu> RTL's are ok for testing as long as you know what you're doing they should work for actual tracking but I'd prefer something a little more sensitive like the Airspy
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[21:33] <mcbcurator> Too bad the Baofeng radios don't do SSB. :(
[21:34] <Upu> nope
[21:34] Nick change: Crashbone -> Crashbone|Away
[21:35] <amell> up to 8 sats now. hdop 3 - this will take hours.
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[21:36] <amell> maybe i should leave it in a field somewhere for a day or two
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[21:38] <fsphil> KF5WYX: they're not negative
[21:39] <KF5WYX> fsphil: That's confusing based on the spec, I guess that's a leading hyphen rather than a negation operator?
[21:39] <fsphil> the hyphen is not stored
[21:39] <fsphil> 6 bytes for the callsign, then one for the ssid
[21:40] <SA6BSS> mcbcurator: I can say that the difference is not that big between a sdr stick and a "real"radio, I actualy prefer the rtl over my ts2000 & ft817
[21:40] <SA6BSS> put your mony on a good antenna and preamp if you have long cabel runs
[21:40] <SA6BSS> *preamp=lna
[21:41] <mcbcurator> I've got a good whip for the car. LNA's a pretty good idea.
[21:41] <KF5WYX> Okay, accept what you're telling me. I was confused because the spec has the hyphen in the SSID field :)
[21:42] <SA6BSS> waiting for the airspy light, that will be a great uppgrade on the sdr
[21:42] <KF5WYX> I'm also confused about what should go in the destination and digipeater address fields. If I'm reading it right, I should put
[21:42] <fsphil> it's normal to display it with the hyphen
[21:43] <fsphil> but the callsigns are always 7 bytes long in the ax25 header
[21:43] <KF5WYX> 'APRS-1' in the destination field for WIDE1-1 and then, how to terminate the digipeater?
[21:43] <KF5WYX> *nods, padding the callsigns to 6+1 characters
[21:43] <fsphil> destination can be anything for aprs iirc, though I set it to APRS-0 in my own stuff
[21:44] <fsphil> the path is optional
[21:44] <KF5WYX> In that case, you put WIDEX-X in your digipeater path?
[21:44] <fsphil> I don't normally have any path
[21:44] <fsphil> though I could see one being useful when it's nearer the ground
[21:46] <KF5WYX> ok, one last question. If the digipeater path is optional - I can simply omit it? If so, what is the terminating character, the control field value?
[21:47] <fsphil> yea you just don't add it
[21:47] <fsphil> you set the LSB in the last byte of the last callsign
[21:48] <fsphil> I have no idea why the callsigns are stored bit shifted in the first place
[21:48] <KF5WYX> So all other addresses last byte needs to be shl (<<) 1 if the LSB is set?
[21:49] <fsphil> yea all the callsign bits are << 1
[21:49] <fsphil> the LSB is zero in all but the last byte
[21:49] <KF5WYX> I hadn't considered that when putting out the callsigns.
[21:49] <fsphil> I'm sure there is a logical reason...
[21:49] <fsphil> I guess that also means you can have as many callsigns as you want
[21:50] <fsphil> since there's no hard limit
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[21:50] <fsphil> I bet some digipeaters would not be happy if you sent more than two
[21:50] <KF5WYX> Spec limits the max number of digi addresses, but since it's variable there has to be something to denote the end of them. I would guess that's what the shifting is about.
[21:50] <KF5WYX> Because the control field might contain an ascii value
[21:50] <fsphil> yea the LSB signals the end
[21:51] <fsphil> dunno why they don't use the MSB and just limit the callsign characters to 7 LSBs
[21:52] <KF5WYX> I don't know why they didn't just add one octet to specify the number of addresses to follow.
[21:52] <fsphil> one of the many weird things about aprs
[21:52] <fsphil> and this isn't even aprs yet
[21:53] <KF5WYX> Well it looks like I have some fixing up to do if I'm going to bit shift everything, and I have a commute to do before then. I may catch you on here later (though I know it's late in the UK). Thanks for the pointers fsphil
[21:53] <fsphil> np
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[22:07] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
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[22:11] <Laurenceb_> any PS-41 yet?
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[22:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-41 after 0312 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-41
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> WOOOT
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> not quite circumnavigated yet
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[22:44] <fsphil> not far from it
[22:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Do we know the launch point ? None of the tracks seem to start from launch ?
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[22:45] <arko> http://www.wired.com/2015/04/analysis-falcon-9-crash-landing/?mbid=social_fb
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[22:46] <arko> :/
[22:47] <KF5WYX> re:
[22:48] <fsphil> they're re-released the video
[22:48] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhMSzC1crr0
[22:49] <fsphil> strangly the 720p version seems to start half way through
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[22:52] <Laurenceb_> oops
[22:52] <Laurenceb_> thats one oscillating control loop
[22:52] <Laurenceb_> i dont get why it explodes so badly
[22:52] <Laurenceb_> maybe the termination system triggered?
[22:52] <fsphil> Michael Bay mode
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[22:53] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[22:53] <Laurenceb_> its was weird
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> i wouldnt picture a punctured tank exploding like that
[22:54] <fsphil> the barge is going to need some cleaning
[22:54] <Laurenceb_> heh
[22:54] <arko> elon said it's possibly a stiction in one of the biprop throttle valves
[22:55] <arko> leading to system lag
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[22:55] <arko> but that tweet was deleted
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> iirc they said "TFS disarmed" on the audio
[22:56] <arko> whats that?
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> that did look like a high grade explosion
[22:56] <Laurenceb_> flight termination system
[22:56] <arko> oh yeah
[22:56] <arko> totally
[22:56] <arko> no doubt about that one
[22:56] <arko> wait.. disarmed?
[22:57] <arko> i thought it self terminated
[22:57] <arko> oops
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> yeah they def said they were disarming the FTS just before touchdown
[22:59] <arko> woah
[22:59] <arko> didnt know that
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> seems like a good idea :P
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> control loop was oscillating like crazy :-/
[23:04] <arko> poor thing
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[23:19] <KF5WYX> fsphil still around?
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[23:23] <fsphil> sorta
[23:24] <fsphil> should be asleep but some cats have decided to have a gang war outside
[23:24] <fsphil> that time of the year
[23:24] <KF5WYX> 420. Does the FCS field calculation include the initiating flags in an AX.25 packet?
[23:24] <fsphil> nope
[23:24] <KF5WYX> Oh I'm sorry. I could mail you some of our rattle snakes to keep as pets
[23:24] <KF5WYX> take care of them cats.
[23:24] <fsphil> hah
[23:25] <fsphil> snakes are nice easy pets
[23:25] <KF5WYX> Not these little blighters
[23:25] <fsphil> ah, snappy?
[23:25] <KF5WYX> One almost got me the week I moved in to my new home
[23:26] <KF5WYX> There was a stack of boxes (from unpacking) and on top of them, a stand from a TV (no idea which tv). I was going to put all that in the trash / recycling, so I press the garage door button and walk towards the door as it opens. It knocked the stack of boxes, which the snake was in. The T.V stand landed on the snake, pinning it. Had it not, he'd have made the extra inch or so and got my leg.
[23:27] <fsphil> ooch
[23:27] <fsphil> we don't have snakes here
[23:27] <KF5WYX> yeah, it was only a baby rattler, but those are the more dangerous one.s
[23:28] <KF5WYX> I know, I miss the safety of UK wildlife. We have rattlers, two breeds of dangerous spider (though they are rare), taratula (one was living on my doorstep, not venomous but can bite nasty).
[23:28] <KF5WYX> Seen some nice stuff too though, like a real life road runner up close in the yard.
[23:28] <fsphil> I was all ready to be fighting off spiders and snakes in australia
[23:28] <fsphil> didn't see a single spider
[23:29] <fsphil> and the only snakes where in a cage
[23:29] <fsphil> meep meep!
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[23:29] <KF5WYX> see!! I said meep meep to my wife and family, they all thought I'd got it wrong and told me it was beep beep.
[23:29] <KF5WYX> I knew I was right.
[23:29] <KF5WYX> lol
[23:29] <fsphil> lol
[23:29] <fsphil> definitly meep
[23:30] <KF5WYX> Yeah, you rarely see the snakes and spiders to be fair - but this house had been unoccupied for a while and it's on the edge of green belt, so some critters moved in.
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[23:30] <KF5WYX> Black widdows are dangerous but non agressive. Brown recluses, more agressive but more rare. Though I have noticed most spider breeds here aren't afraid of humans like they are in the UK. A couple have fronted up to me as I examined them
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> i read that as windows
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> thought you were talking about drivers
[23:31] <KF5WYX> lol
[23:31] <KF5WYX> Those are dangerous to
[23:31] <KF5WYX> too*
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> tinted windows usually means roadrage
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[23:43] <Laurenceb_> "Private IoT reporting for duty, Sir!"
[23:43] <Laurenceb_> "Hello Private! I would ask why you are here, but apparently the rest of us don't really have a fucking clue either..."
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[23:57] <hyde00001> !whereis PS-41
[23:57] <SpacenearUS> 03hyde00001: 03PS-41 was over 03Indian Ocean 10(-52.724,144.125) at 039191 meters about 0316 minutes ago
[00:00] --- Thu Apr 16 2015