highaltitude.log.20150401

[00:00] <berry120> hey - designing a first balloon launch at the moment, any tips or suggestions? At the moment I'm aiming to keep it simple so the payload is just ublox gps, ntx2b and an atmega328 all running at 3.3V via a step up regulator
[00:00] <berry120> pico balloon launch that is - aiming to keep it light & cheap
[00:00] <craag> berry120: Sounds like you're right on track :)
[00:01] <craag> What balloon are you planning to launch?
[00:01] <berry120> at present just one of the small foil ones we got off amazon
[00:02] <berry120> literally just a plain foil party balloon I think
[00:02] <craag> I started off in hab with those :)
[00:02] <berry120> awesome
[00:02] <craag> The ~1m across ones right?
[00:03] <berry120> nah they're much smaller, about half that diameter i think
[00:03] <craag> Oh right - have you worked out how much lift you can get from it?
[00:04] <berry120> not yet, planning to soon and then if not adequate will get a bigger one! waiting for some digital scales to arrive
[00:04] <craag> Even the 1m across ones are max about 60g payload.
[00:04] <craag> eg. https://plus.google.com/photos/+PhilipCrump/albums/5797700489215558993/5797778251972197682?banner=pwa&pid=5797778251972197682&oid=111985625986161608212
[00:05] <berry120> ah ok, may be pushing it then
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[00:05] <berry120> where did you get your 1m ones?
[00:06] <craag> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
[00:06] <craag> Qualatex 36"
[00:06] <berry120> cool
[00:07] <berry120> i'll probably order a couple of those regardless
[00:07] <berry120> i have a feeling from what you're saying the ones i have are probably way too small!
[00:08] <craag> Most likely - measure the diameter and calculate the volume though to find out.
[00:08] <craag> Also weigh the balloon, larger balloons tend to have better volume-per-weight ratios.
[00:08] <berry120> cheers
[00:09] <berry120> i think i've got wrapped up in the payload lots without thinking so much about the lift!
[00:09] <craag> Lift is rather important
[00:09] <berry120> Yeah definitely
[00:09] <berry120> in terms of helium - do the cheap helium canisters off amazon do the trick, or would you recommend something else?
[00:10] <craag> I did one pico launch in a 48h hackathon after very little sleep - got the lift off by 10g.... it floated stupidly low, didn't get it back :P
[00:10] <berry120> hah i'll try not to make that mistake..!
[00:11] <craag> http://balloonhelium.co.uk/products/helium
[00:11] <craag> That's the place I tend to use
[00:11] <craag> They've got the cylinder volumes listed at: http://balloonhelium.co.uk/main/pricing
[00:13] <berry120> they look quite similar to the disposable cylinder i've got but will check
[00:14] <craag> Oh yeah they'll all be rebadged BOC cylinders probably :P
[00:14] <craag> Just look for a volume in m3, and make sure it's enough for the total lift you want (including balloon weight)
[00:15] <berry120> yeah will do
[00:15] <craag> + ~10% at least as you never get all of it out of the cylinder
[00:15] <berry120> ideally i'd want to grab enough for a few launches anyway :)
[00:16] <craag> a 0.35m3 disposable will do 3 light launches or a couple of heavy ones at least if I remember correctly.
[00:16] <berry120> nice
[00:17] <berry120> that seems to be lining up with my calculations as well based on a ~40g payload
[00:17] <craag> :)
[00:18] <craag> remember that the 40g has to include string, tape, etc
[00:18] <berry120> good point... *adds a few more grams*
[00:18] <berry120> if i've learnt anything from the last few minutes it's not to underestimate the lift calculations!
[00:19] <craag> good :)
[00:19] <craag> Are you aiming for a simple up-burst-down flight?
[00:20] <berry120> in terms of the payload again - what would you recommend in terms of power saving / transmit frequency? (as in how often to transmit rather than the frequency to transmit on.) I'm looking into playing around with low power modes for the GPS, but worried if might chew just as much power looking for a lock from cold if i'm constantly power cycling the thing
[00:20] <berry120> (it's one of the M8C breakouts)
[00:21] <craag> Leo Bodnar did some testing on this
[00:21] <craag> if you're wanting a fix less than every 15 minutes, he found it was better to leave it running in Cyclic (1s) mode, than to turn it on and off.
[00:22] <berry120> ah cool... i think i'd want to be transmitting much more frequently than that
[00:22] <craag> So what most people do, is start it up in High performance mode, wait until it has 5+ satellites, then drop to Cyclic (1s) mode.
[00:23] <craag> If it loses lock, then switch back to High Performance until it has 5+ sats again.
[00:23] <craag> (which hopefully won't happen very often)
[00:23] <berry120> that sounds sensible
[00:24] <craag> If you leave it in Cyclic without a lock, it can sometimes never re-lock :/
[00:24] <craag> Re: transmitting
[00:25] <craag> Are you doing a float flight, or up-burst-down?
[00:25] <berry120> i presume there's a telemetry string to switch it between cyclic and high performance mode?
[00:25] <berry120> aiming for float
[00:26] <craag> Yes, there's a protocol called UBX
[00:26] <craag> specified in the ublox Protocol Description
[00:27] <berry120> cool, i've just pulled that doc and will give it a read
[00:27] <craag> There's also a utility called uCenter
[00:27] <berry120> normally i'd be tempted to transmit relatively infrequently with a float, but since it's the first one i thought it sensible to aim for a higher transmission frequency even if it does drain the batteries faster, just to check everything is ok early on in the flight at least (or not as the case may be!)
[00:28] <craag> WHere you can plug the gps into the pc (via an FTDI cable), and change these settings from a GUI
[00:28] <berry120> I've played with ucenter a bit when i first got the chips - you may have seen my mailing list post about struggling to get a lock with them
[00:28] <craag> You can then also see the commands it's using
[00:28] <craag> Ah!
[00:28] <berry120> I'll have a longer play in it with some of those power save mode settings then - I didn't know you could flip them from there directly
[00:29] <craag> Obviously the gps loses them as soon as you disconnect it
[00:29] <craag> But there's a view where you can see what messages it's sending.
[00:29] <craag> And copy those into your microcontroller code :)
[00:29] <berry120> ah that will be very useful
[00:30] <craag> So with the floats, most people transmit between once every couple of minutes, and once every 5 minutes.
[00:31] <craag> You could have it transmit often below a certain altitude, then once it's floating it'll slow down, if it descends it speeds up again.
[00:32] <berry120> that sounds like a good idea
[00:32] <craag> a 40g payload is going to be difficult to float for very long.
[00:32] <berry120> too heavy?
[00:32] <SpeedEvil> Of course, if you have a pressure sensor too - you can determine when waking the GPS may be a good idea
[00:33] <craag> Yeah - for multi-day ones you need to be sub-20g it seems.
[00:33] <berry120> hmm, I do have some bmp085's knocking around
[00:34] <berry120> I could probably get it a lot lighter going for smd components and getting rid of the veroboard
[00:34] <craag> Yes, would wholeheartedly recommend making a PCB :)
[00:34] <berry120> to be honest, if i get more than a few hours from the first one I'll be happy!
[00:34] <craag> But - try the NTX2+veroboard first
[00:34] <craag> great :)
[00:35] <craag> where are you based?
[00:35] <berry120> Canterbury - university of kent
[00:36] <berry120> I'm in the comp sci department there, want to try something a bit different and interesting and hab seemed to fit the bill rather well
[00:36] <craag> Cool!
[00:37] <craag> I'm in Southampton - graduated from uni here last year.
[00:37] <berry120> ah nice one, what did you study?
[00:38] <craag> electronic engineering
[00:38] <berry120> nice, all the electronics / firmware stuff must be a breeze to you then!
[00:39] <craag> tbh I'd barely touched firmware before I started doing HAB
[00:39] <craag> now I do it for a living :)
[00:39] <berry120> i've done odd bits of firmware / pcb design over the last few years but this looks like it could become much more complex than previous projects I've looked at
[00:40] <berry120> hah, often the way :)
[00:43] <craag> anyway I have work to get up for tomorrow, goodnight!
[00:43] <berry120> right, well thanks very much for all the advice - much appreciated! early start tomorrow so i should probably head off. Cheers! :-)
[00:44] <craag> np
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[04:42] <Bobsaget> hey guys does anyone have an audio file I can play to test my dl-fldigi setup?
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[04:59] <Bobsaget> fsphil: are you around to help me with my gqrx + dl-fldigi setup?
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[05:08] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[06:02] <Upu> Bobsaget there is one on the wiki
[06:03] <Upu> an Icarus flight
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[06:08] <Vaizki> speaking of recordings, do I remember someone planning to generate an i/q file for gps simulation of a complete hab flight?
[06:08] <edmoore> possibly
[06:08] <edmoore> there are periodic rumblings of such tings
[06:09] <Bobsaget> thanks I found it Upu tried playing it in mplayer but no data came across
[06:10] <Upu> you can play it in dl-fldigi
[06:10] <Upu> File -> Audio -> Playback
[06:12] <Bobsaget> ahh ok
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[06:13] <Vaizki> well if such an I/Q file came about I'd be happy to test it ;)
[06:16] <Bobsaget> ok thanks that seemed to work
[06:17] <Bobsaget> does it matter what frequency is displayed in dl-fldigi if i'm feeding it from gqrx?
[06:18] <Upu> nope
[06:18] <Upu> unless you have a plugin that can tune it
[06:18] <edmoore> my breakfast is smelling jolly good
[06:18] <Bobsaget> ok so the stand freq using gqrx
[06:18] <Bobsaget> 134.075?
[06:19] <Upu> well if you're playing back you can ignore gqrx
[06:19] <Bobsaget> no i just want to setup a basestation for rx here
[06:19] <Bobsaget> or do you think that is not really needed?
[06:19] <Upu> whatever frequency you're using
[06:19] <Upu> what radio is it ?
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[07:43] <ibanezmatt13> morning
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[08:21] <fsphil> morn
[08:24] <infaddict> morning fsphil. a rather early one for me due to callout at work ;-(
[08:25] <daveake> That's going to go well ....
[08:25] <daveake> ... checked the date? :p
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[08:27] <mattbrejza> 'you drove 400 miles to fix my printer?'
[08:27] <mattbrejza> -'ahahah aprils fools'
[08:28] <mattbrejza> would be kinda mean...
[08:28] <infaddict> haha!
[08:28] <infaddict> forgot about the date. sadly it was all too real.
[08:28] <infaddict> just about fixed up now tho
[08:28] <infaddict> as most often the case, problems outside of my team causing problems to my team. meh.
[08:30] <jcoxon> i'm enjoying this april fool article http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/apr/01/jeremy-clarkson-joins-guardian-drive-for-fossil-fuel-divestment
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[08:33] <infaddict> ha, just spotted authors name
[08:34] <daveake> https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/l/t31.0-8/10333397_1049105191770568_8687200483335621582_o.png
[08:35] <ibanezmatt13> that looks excellent :)
[08:35] <fsphil> love the name
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[08:38] <daveake> how to build one http://www.rs-online.com/designspark/electronics/eng/blog/henry-hover-drone-tutorial?/designspark/electronics/blog/henry-hover-drone-tutorial=
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[10:22] <LunarWork> hello
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[10:23] <LunarWork> SOIC-8 to DIP adaptor boards (1.27mm/0.65mm pitch) at eBay: 1€ per piece
[10:23] <LunarWork> leaded solder 0.5 mm: 5€ per roll
[10:24] <LunarWork> discovering that the sensor has a 1 mm pad pitch: priceless
[10:24] <edmoore> that's annoying
[10:24] <LunarWork> yea
[10:24] <edmoore> i think we've all done that with a connector or package at some point
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[10:25] <LunarWork> can imagine that
[10:25] <mattbrejza> just bend them out a bit
[10:25] <mattbrejza> the leads
[10:26] <LunarWork> ah its a leadless flatpack
[10:26] <LunarWork> this one http://uk.farnell.com/sensirion/sht21/sensor-feuchte-temp-3x3mm-2/dp/1855468
[10:27] <mattbrejza> its still bodgable
[10:28] <LunarWork> ok
[10:28] <LunarWork> thanks :)
[10:28] <Maxell> https://com.google/
[10:29] <daveake> (: ecin
[10:29] <fsphil> yhw
[10:29] <pc1pcl> hmmm should perhaps have been moc.elgoog ?
[10:29] <edmoore> elgoog not a tld
[10:29] <edmoore> sadly
[10:30] <edmoore> unless the spanish google have managed to get it
[10:31] <superkuh> ( http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/program-status/delegated-strings )
[10:33] <edmoore> where does one buy some of these more obscure ones?
[10:34] <superkuh> enom does a few of them.
[10:35] <fsphil> nice, even the image search is backwards
[10:36] <zyp> LunarWork, should be easy enough to deadbug
[10:37] <zyp> just make sure to leave an opening for the sensor window
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[10:48] <dongfang> Anyone knows the exact type of supercap used with K6RPT? The ones I tried turned into 200k resistors in the cold...
[10:50] <fsphil> define cold
[10:54] <dongfang> -50 C and colder
[10:55] <dongfang> I don't know exactly at what temp my caps stopped working. Okay maybe in daytime flight they would be okay
[11:00] <fsphil> the only ones I've played with are rated to -40c
[11:08] <dongfang> okay are they small & light?
[11:10] <LunarWork> thanks zyp
[11:10] <fsphil> yea, not huge capacity though
[11:10] <fsphil> well compared to a battery
[11:12] <dongfang> nice, tnx!
[11:12] <fsphil> doesn't mention weight sadly, and I've no weighed them
[11:12] <fsphil> not*
[11:13] <fsphil> the low voltage is annoying
[11:19] <amell> any idea why the LEA-6H would be more expensive than NEO-7M?
[11:20] <Vaizki> just the chips or a module?
[11:20] <amell> module. for quadcopter.
[11:21] <Vaizki> the lea module maybe has a compass as well
[11:21] <Vaizki> can't think of any other reasons off the top of my head
[11:22] <amell> they both have compass. strange, maybe a supply issue.
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[11:23] <Vaizki> if you run into a cheap gps compass let me know :)
[11:24] <Vaizki> to avoid ambiguity on what a gps compass is, http://www.cactusnav.com/images/satcomp.jpg
[11:25] <amell> 133 yen = £14.50 for a LEA-6H and compass. but yeah
[11:25] <Vaizki> basically looks at L1 phase from several gps antennas
[11:25] <amell> thats something else.
[11:25] <Vaizki> yes, just saying that's what I want :)
[11:26] <Vaizki> if anyone sees a cheap one, shout
[11:27] <Vaizki> my local boat shop asks 1790 euros for one...
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[11:33] <amell> I dont know how these chinese sellers make any margin on ebay&. its crazy pricing
[11:34] <Vaizki> I know.. sometimes I think all the components must be fakes but I get a lot of good stuff from them...
[11:34] <Vaizki> I can get a circuit with a $2 BOM at 100k quantities delivered to my mailbox for $1
[11:34] <amell> i was talking to manufacturer in china re autopilot parts. even at qty of 100 i cant make sufficient margin.
[11:35] <amell> they are literally buying them in thousands and making like 2% margin.
[11:35] <Vaizki> or they are manufacturing them for someone else and just stamping out an extra 100k with a dfrobot silk screen or something ;)
[11:36] <amell> probably. its completely insane market.
[11:36] <amell> £14.50 for a ublox GPS module and compass on board, cased, with cables and connectors? crazy.
[11:37] <Vaizki> patch antenna?
[11:37] <amell> yep!
[11:37] <Vaizki> yea I have something like that on my hexacopter
[11:37] <Vaizki> don't remember what's inside
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> Random spammage. ##optics exists, for all your discussion about optics needs.
[11:39] <amell> i prefer to go to specsavers
[11:39] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[11:39] <Vaizki> mmm.. laser data uplink to hab?
[11:39] <daveake> Sign in specsavers window: "If you can't see what you want, you've come to the right place"
[11:41] <Vaizki> amell, which NEO-7M? url?
[11:41] <amell> thats a 6M
[11:42] <amell> it was on taobao somewhere.
[11:42] <Vaizki> ah
[11:43] <amell> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.9.MdN00C&id=16781765775&ns=1&abbucket=9#detail
[11:43] <SpeedEvil> Vaizki: Laser downlink is in some ways more interesting
[11:44] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30Kpps-laser-scanning-galvo-scanners-ILDA-/190436814256 (the bits are available at half this)
[11:44] <Vaizki> more customers for specsavers...
[11:45] <Vaizki> I don't even know what that does.
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> Take this, a very rough positioner to get it roughly on target, scan around the area to pick up a pilot beam, and then do wobble tracking at 1khz or so to keep it on target
[11:45] <Vaizki> it looks like a club laser display
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> It is
[11:46] <SpeedEvil> But you can put your own laser for comms - a beamsplitter to pick up inbound beams and a photodiode in there.
[11:46] <amell> what is the applicability of this to habs?
[11:46] <Vaizki> balloons with friggin' LAZERZ on them
[11:46] <Vaizki> what's not to like?
[11:46] <amell> but theres only 20 degree deflection?
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> amell: yes - which is why you need a rough positioner.
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> But this can then take over and position to .05 degrees at >1khz
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> Live HD video, for example.
[11:48] <Vaizki> so this is on the ground?
[11:48] <amell> so a basic servo driven by software and compass.
[11:48] <Vaizki> or both ends?
[11:48] <amell> wont the payload be spinning so fast, the servo cant keep up
[11:50] <SpeedEvil> No, on the air
[11:50] <SpeedEvil> in
[11:50] <SpeedEvil> The ground can have a small telescope pointed with slow servos
[11:51] <Vaizki> so the pilot beam is from the ground?
[11:51] <SpeedEvil> And yes - you need something to keep the spin rate down. This can be for example a spar with a draggy thing on, and a swivel to the balloon
[11:53] <Bobsaget> amell: are you in china?
[11:53] <amell> no.
[11:53] <Bobsaget> then how do you order off taobao?
[11:53] <amell> thankfully. i was glad to get out the last time.
[11:53] <amell> just ship to UK.
[11:53] <Bobsaget> haha trust me i know what you mean
[11:54] <Bobsaget> really you can do that?
[11:54] <Vaizki> throw money at chinese, they send stuff back
[11:55] <Bobsaget> I have a hell of a time getting them to ship stuff to HK
[11:55] <amell> are you in HK?
[11:55] <Bobsaget> yes
[11:55] <amell> sorry to hear that, it was never the same after 1986
[11:56] <Bobsaget> Haha, you brits
[11:56] <amell> if youre in HK, why cant you just get a bus with a suitcase
[11:57] <amell> there are so many suppliers in Shenzen, and thats a short bus ride.
[11:57] <Bobsaget> been there done that. the chinese are not fun to deal with
[11:58] <Bobsaget> i have a runner that will just box it all up and send it SF express, much easier and less stress
[11:59] <Bobsaget> and cheaper
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[12:09] <zeta> hi all
[12:10] <SpeedEvil> hi
[12:11] <zeta> i have erroneously submitted data to habhub using dl-fldigi (I am only bench testing). I have switched to offline now, is there anyway I can remove the entry on habhub?
[12:13] <daveake> It doesn't matter - it'll get deleted sometime anyway
[12:14] <zeta> ok thanks dave
[12:16] <edmoore> i cannot do that for you dave
[12:17] <daveake> Dave can't do it either :/
[12:17] <daveake> Used to before the map got replaced
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[12:26] <Vaizki> it would be nice to have a (possibly default) filter that only shows flights with flight documents.. :)
[12:27] <Vaizki> would maybe encourage people to submit them
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[12:27] <infaddic_> Vaizki: you mean on the map or fldigi? fldigi already does that
[12:28] <Vaizki> on the map
[12:28] <daveake> no it doesn't
[12:28] <daveake> you don't need a flight doc to upload or view on the map
[12:28] <infaddic_> oh i thought i had to click "all payloads" in fldigi to see my payload (no flight doc)
[12:28] <Vaizki> yes but fldigi main window gui only shows active flights
[12:29] <Vaizki> anyway, I meant the map
[12:29] <daveake> I thin it would be reasonable for the map to only show payloads with a flight doc, by default, with an option to show other (testing) payloads
[12:29] <daveake> think
[12:30] <Vaizki> that was my idea
[12:30] <daveake> There was going to be a real map and a testing map, at one point
[12:30] <Vaizki> of course there is no flight doc for PS-40 or the aprs stuff but those could be handled
[12:32] <pc1pcl> although a general way to just filter out non interesting flights might be nice. Usually I am curious enough to see all testing things, but typically then just want to get rid of them if they are 'just a test'. The 'last x hours' thing helps a lot there though.
[12:34] <Vaizki> yea sure.. it would be nice to have "this is/was a real flight" flag in the db, however it ends up getting set
[12:35] <Vaizki> wpuld probaby help with server load as well
[12:36] <edmoore> just give an sql interface
[12:37] <edmoore> be done with it
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[12:44] <Vaizki> to couchdb? :)
[12:45] <edmoore> i think the new one is postgres
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[13:19] <SSC_Leggs_> Hi guys
[13:20] <SSC_Leggs_> Could someone authorise our flight for this weekend please?
[13:20] <craag> Yo
[13:20] <SSC_Leggs_> DOC ID: bac15126bd0d63fd33bf5c27d7808ab8
[13:21] <Laurenceb> can anyone here help me with some bash script stuff?
[13:22] <Laurenceb> http://pastie.org/10067232
[13:22] <Laurenceb> i have processed_transport_data/, which contains a whole bunch of stuff
[13:23] <Laurenceb> i want to move folders from it to "transport data"
[13:23] <Laurenceb> but i dont know what im doing lol
[13:23] <Laurenceb> i should probably exaplin better
[13:23] <Vaizki> huh
[13:24] <Vaizki> still not sure what you want :)
[13:24] <zyp> that code doesn't make sense at all
[13:24] <amell> no it doesnt
[13:24] <Laurenceb> just a sec
[13:25] <amell> you havent escaped characters for a start
[13:25] <Vaizki> I think you need to explain what you want to do
[13:26] <Laurenceb> http://pastie.org/10067241
[13:26] <zyp> you might want to do something like find processed_transport_data -type d -depth 1 -exec mv {} transport_data/{} \;
[13:27] <amell> what he said
[13:27] <zyp> or rather: find processed_transport_data -type d -depth 1 -exec mv {} transport_data/ \;
[13:27] <Laurenceb> ok ill try it
[13:28] <Vaizki> yea if you only want to move dirs, zyp's should do it
[13:28] <Laurenceb> you have specified the -depth option after a non-option argument -type, but options are not positional (-depth affects tests specified before it as well as those specified after it). Please specify options before other arguments.
[13:29] <Laurenceb> didnt work for that reason
[13:29] <amell> would you appreciate clubbing with someone wearing this? http://www.goodluckbuy.com/lt-532-2532nm-1mw-green-laser-glove-black-stage-laser-show-dance-dj-club.html
[13:29] <zyp> swap the order of the arguments then
[13:29] <amell> 100mW!
[13:29] <zyp> I only tested this with bsd find, not gnu find :p
[13:30] <Laurenceb> heh
[13:30] <Laurenceb> hmm which arguments?
[13:31] <Vaizki> if you use zsh you can do: mv processed_transport_data/*(/) transport_data/
[13:31] <Vaizki> as a curiosity ;)
[13:31] <zyp> oh, looks like it's a different thing
[13:31] <zyp> try -maxdepth 0 instead of -depth 1
[13:31] <Laurenceb> ok
[13:31] <zyp> or maybe it's -maxdepth 1
[13:32] <zyp> -mindepth 1 -maxdepth 1
[13:32] <Laurenceb> almost works
[13:32] <zyp> otherwise it'll grab the parent dir too
[13:32] <Laurenceb> aha
[13:33] Action: Vaizki hugs his unpure zsh
[13:34] <Laurenceb> -maxdepth 2 -mindepth 1 works
[13:35] <Laurenceb> but i get an error
[13:35] <Laurenceb> find: ‘foo/bar’: No such file or directory
[13:36] <Laurenceb> thats the folder name it moved
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[15:50] <ibanezmatt13> Afternoon all. Would it be possible to use an analog output on an arduino or something to create a sine wave signal, which I could flip the polarity of to send PSK?
[15:52] <dongfang> yes you can look at the trackuino project and modifyit for psk
[15:53] <fsphil> you'll be limited to audio-level frequencies
[15:54] <fsphil> but should be simple enough. probably easier than FSK
[15:54] <ibanezmatt13> Great, thanks. I just thought I might try to make a PSK encoder type device to see what's involved
[15:54] <fsphil> neat project
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[15:55] <ibanezmatt13> The main issue I'm facing at the moment is getting audio into a Yaesu 897 without having to use the mic; it has no audio in as far as I can tell
[15:57] <fsphil> one of the round ports on the back does
[15:58] <mattbrejza> persumably youll have to modulate the psk up to a 1Khz or so rather than putting baseband psk into the radio
[15:58] <fsphil> the DATA port
[15:59] <ibanezmatt13> right, I'll see what I can do :)
[16:02] <fsphil> then try QPSK :)
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> mm, not yet thanks :)
[16:13] <Lunar_Lander> I tried to deadbug the chip I showed earlier and also a BMP180, the latter one worked well, the other one not so
[16:13] <Lunar_Lander> that wasn't a nice experience
[16:13] <Lunar_Lander> also, the BMP180 then had the strangest phenomenon I ever saw, it was powered by the 3.3V pin of an Arduino Mega, and it was not responding, and when I measured the voltage between the VCC and GND pins of the sensors it said 4 Volts
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[16:21] <Lunar_Lander> but getting the wires onto the sensor worked surprisingly well
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[17:30] <cambazz> so i just ordered the gps, and my baloons. now i gotta find some helium. any recomendations?
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[17:30] <cambazz> would any helium do?
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[17:42] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[17:42] <SpeedEvil> You care somewhat about purity - but not very much
[17:43] <SpeedEvil> As long as it's >90% or so, it's fine
[17:49] <cambazz> ok they are also selling a device that claims it is mixing in 40% air, and it is more economic this way. it would be stupid to do that for hab right?
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> yes
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> It is more economic for party balloons and you want to do that
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> but not for HAB
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[18:03] <cambazz> i am only missing directional antenna
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[18:04] <SpeedEvil> As a random point - if you have plenty of volume - in principle you could use natural gas
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> half the lift - but 50p/m^3
[18:06] <myself> party balloons will generate "enough lift" to lift themselves at 40% air, they have no payload. But you care about payload, so watering-down your lift would be the wrong idea.
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> yeah
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[19:33] <craag> multi-SDR people - I'm after the most sensitive 144MHz SDR, what would you suggest?
[19:35] <craag> Bandwidth not relevant - I'm interested in 20KHz at most.
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[19:40] <Vaizki> aprs?
[19:42] <craag> No, cubesat receiver.
[19:43] <lz1dev> there are aprs transmitting cubesats
[19:43] <lz1dev> and what not
[19:43] <craag> This one won't be ;)
[19:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is dynamic range critical any local Tx ?
[19:44] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: Yes, could be.. if the uni radio club are messing around!
[19:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Airspy has one of the better figures for that, sensitivity seems good as well. Not quite sure what FCD Pro+ uses it never seems to be specified ...
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[19:50] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: Thanks, airspy does match up rather well against the fcdpp.
[19:51] <Upu> well as my wife managed to trash my BladeRF all I have is an airspy now :/
[19:51] <craag> The fcdpp has 16-bits, but if I recall doesn't use a couple of bits-worth.
[19:51] <Upu> (she was cleaning and knocked the USB3 connector which tore off the board)
[19:51] <craag> aww Upu
[19:52] <craag> oucj
[19:52] <craag> *ouch
[19:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ouch
[19:52] <Upu> may be able to fix it but its not looking hopeful
[19:52] <Upu> tore some tracks off
[19:54] <craag> I might put forward a case for getting both to run in parallel, then we can do the comparison :)
[19:56] <Upu> brb
[19:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> craag, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7tGFUG4FFQ#t=293
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[19:57] <Vaizki> craag, airspy also oversamples
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[19:58] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: airspy looks good there..
[20:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> The spreadsheet is available somewhere as well
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[20:02] <myself> Upu-: I'll buy your busted bladeRF for $100 ;)
[20:02] <craag> The only point against the airspy is the massively wide bandwidth compared to the narrow SAW on the fcdpp - but we're already planning to use a habamp with saw filter at the masthead :)
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[20:03] <Upu-> and ipv6 working yay
[20:03] <Upu-> myself : no :)
[20:03] Nick change: Upu- -> Upu
[20:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thats what I use along with a few others as well, but would prefer to add my own bandwidth control rather than have it fixed internally.
[20:03] <myself> Heh. I'm a sucker for a soldering challenge.
[20:04] <craag> Thanks Geoff-G8DHE - airspy it is.
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[20:11] <Vaizki> craag, check with prog about the uk distr.. I think he said one is imminent
[20:11] <Upu> whats it for craag ?
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[20:14] <Vaizki> cubesat
[20:14] <craag> Vaizki: Thanks - much paperwork to be done before it gets to that stage.
[20:15] <craag> Upu: University Cubesat ground station.
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[20:16] <Upu> ah rgr
[20:16] <ibanezmatt13> sounds exciting :)
[20:16] <prog> craag: decimation
[20:16] <Upu> hence asking about the 2mtr amp
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[20:16] <Upu> I'll sort you one out
[20:16] <Upu> evening prog
[20:16] <prog> hello
[20:16] <Upu> I'm "stuck" with the Airspy, its more wife proof
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[20:17] <prog> I'm glad to hear that
[20:17] <Upu> (scroll back a bit)
[20:17] <prog> Upu> well as my wife managed to trash my BladeRF all I have is an airspy now :/
[20:17] <prog> what happened?
[20:17] <prog> ah. USB connector.
[20:17] <Upu> she was cleaning and knocked it off the table
[20:18] <Upu> was in a case
[20:18] <Upu> but usb3 hole is massive and offers no support
[20:18] <Vaizki> I'm trying to like my sdrplay but it might be a bit too 'ham' for me :(
[20:18] <Upu> it has a beard ?
[20:18] <prog> Vaizki: how's that?
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[20:20] <Vaizki> well it's clearly optimized for certain bands with discrete fioters and all
[20:20] <Vaizki> fikters
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[20:20] <Vaizki> argh im on an iphone here
[20:21] <prog> how's the dynamic range?
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[20:23] <Vaizki> it is actually quite easy to adjust gain etc on it quickly for different signals
[20:23] <Vaizki> but i have not measured dr
[20:24] <prog> try to compare the DR at the same bw
[20:24] <prog> using the decimation etc.
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[20:51] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[20:56] <Vaizki> maybe you should write a guide to evaluating...
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[21:20] <DL7AD> does anyone know baudline?
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[21:27] <KF5WYX> Hey all, Does anyone know how to read the data on this map: http://skyvector.com/ <- I need to find a suitable launch location and the balloon may not travel through Class B Airspace, and should avoid Class C if possible.
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[21:28] <prog> Vaizki: just compare the two in the same conditions
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[21:40] <nigelvh> Ping Upu
[21:40] <Upu> o7
[21:41] <nigelvh> Nice job on the RPi NTP article on your site. I was looking for updated info since the kernel sources changed.
[21:41] <nigelvh> Came up on the second page of google.
[21:41] <Upu> oh cool
[21:41] <nigelvh> I built mine back when I had to recompile the kernel. Looks like they made it a lot easier.
[21:41] <Upu> yeah its basically David Taylors instructions condensed into a minimal just want it working don't need to understand form
[21:43] <nigelvh> There's value in condensed versions.
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[22:10] <KF5WYX> 30lb fishing cord for tethering, good? bad? ugly? I'm lead to believe it's difficult to fasten because it'll slip lose during a busy flight?
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[22:13] <SpeedEvil> Are you happy with your ability to knot it, perhaps inthe cold and rain
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[22:16] <KF5WYX> It'll be warm here, mid April in Texas. I may have to study knotting in the lead-up.
[22:17] <craag> Does it get brittle in the cold?
[22:17] <craag> (at altitude, not in texas :P )
[22:17] <KF5WYX> That, I don't know.
[22:17] <KF5WYX> probably.
[22:18] <KF5WYX> hmm
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[22:31] <Laurenceb__> http://science.slashdot.org/story/15/04/01/1632234/scientists-discover-meaning-of-life-through-massive-computing-project
[22:31] <Laurenceb__> lol first comment
[22:33] <Vaizki> hey it's well into April 2nd here.. so time to sleep and forget the lame pranks ;)
[22:34] <SpeedEvil> First comment may vary
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[22:43] <KF5WYX> Atmega328p Fast PWM mode, no prescaler. 16Mhz / 256 (counter per sample) = 62,500 samples per second. With baud at 1200, that's 62,500 / 1200 = 52.08 samples per baud period. That's quite a low resolution sine wave, especially for the 22Khz tone - so why do so many examples (such as trackuino f.x.) use a 512 byte array for the pre-calculated sine?
[22:46] <nigelvh> KF5WYX: Keep in mind that 256 is just the counter overflow, you can generate the interrupt at any value in the counter.
[22:46] <nigelvh> So you can interrupt much quicker.
[22:47] <nigelvh> Also keep in mind that it's 2.2khz, not 22khz
[22:47] <nigelvh> So, there's not a ton of a sine wave in a bit period.
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[22:51] <Laurenceb__> anyone here any good with shell scripts?
[22:51] <Laurenceb__> http://pastie.org/10068536
[22:51] <Laurenceb__> i think this is eating all my ram, sounds sane?
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[23:04] <SpeedEvil> I would try explicitly nuking the mapped array at end of every file
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> I have never used mapfile
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[23:06] <Laurenceb__> ah
[23:06] <Laurenceb__> yeah ram use seems to increase with time
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> If you're doing what I think you're doing, I would instead do find . -name "*csv" -exec grep "whatever" -q(or whatever argument) \{} \; -exec mv \{} wherever/ \;
[23:08] <SpeedEvil> yeah - -q was right
[23:09] <SpeedEvil> Without investigating things - using large string arrays in languages where they're really tacked on tends not to end well.
[23:09] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[23:09] <Laurenceb__> this isnt my code :P
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[23:10] <SpeedEvil> ah
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> As a first cut - try nuking the array each turn
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[23:17] <Laurenceb__> any idea how to do that?
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> unset n
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> ame,
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> where name is an array, or unset name[subscript], where subscript is *
[23:19] <SpeedEvil> or @, removes the entire array.
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[23:20] <Laurenceb__> ok
[23:21] <Laurenceb__> so " unset MAPFILE" ?
[23:24] <SpeedEvil> yes
[23:24] <Laurenceb__> ok
[23:24] <Laurenceb__> but im going to try grep in a loop instead now
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[00:00] --- Thu Apr 2 2015