highaltitude.log.20150319

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[00:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC3EMR-11 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC3EMR-11
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[07:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG5FRM-1 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5FRM-1
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[08:15] <Vaizki> morning
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[08:21] <Reb-SM0ULC> morrn
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[08:22] <Vaizki> hab launch ical feed is still completely bare for tomorrow?
[08:22] <Upu> don't think we've done any flight docs yet
[08:23] <edmoore> just you wait enry iggins
[08:24] <Vaizki> keep calm and carry on? I have yet to master all English euphenisms ;)
[08:24] <Vaizki> english not being my primary language and all
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[08:26] <Upu> try now Vaizki
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[08:28] <Vaizki> try now what? my calendar is still empty
[08:28] <daveake> Google calendar?
[08:29] <Vaizki> outlook
[08:29] <daveake> That has a slow refresh rate
[08:29] <daveake> pass
[08:29] <Vaizki> it doesn't refresh when I press Update folder?
[08:30] <daveake> pass
[08:30] <Vaizki> ok well that's just ridicilous
[08:30] <Vaizki> thank you microsoft.
[08:31] <Vaizki> ah ok in google calendar I see APJ09
[08:32] <daveake> That's been there since yesterday
[08:32] <Vaizki> thanks daveake, I had no idea it's that braindead on outlook
[08:32] <daveake> I didn't say it was
[08:32] <daveake> I said I didn't know
[08:32] <Vaizki> ah
[08:32] <daveake> For me, Google calender has yet to show the flights Upu approved just now
[08:32] <Vaizki> ah²
[08:33] <Vaizki> well my outlook doesn't even have APJ09
[08:33] <daveake> MS you say? :/
[08:33] <daveake> Google refresh "every few hours"
[08:34] <Vaizki> indeed. but there's a big button on outlook "Update folder" with a sync arrow circle on it.
[08:34] <Vaizki> you'd imagine that would force a poll...
[08:34] <Vaizki> Outlook relies on the custom property X-PUBLISHED-TTL to set the download frequency but unless set in the file you subscribe to, there is no way to force within outlook an update frequency (nor in google calendar).
[08:35] <Vaizki> someone? please? :)
[08:37] <daveake> Is Kent_HAB1 flying today?
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[08:39] <daveake> There's a notam for near Banbury, which is where I think he said he was launching
[08:40] <edmoore> kent hab
[08:40] <edmoore> in banbury
[08:40] <daveake> yup
[08:41] <edmoore> ...alright
[08:41] <daveake> I know
[08:41] <daveake> This was mentioned
[08:41] <daveake> He didn't seem altogether prepared
[08:41] <edmoore> i'm not far from banbury
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[08:45] <edmoore> there was someone testing a tracker about 1 mile from me a few weeks ago
[08:45] <daveake> could you rx it ?
[08:46] <edmoore> i wondered if heading out with a yagi to found his house and knocking on the door was an acceptable way to kidnap him into the cult or not
[08:46] <daveake> hah :)
[08:46] <edmoore> 'hello, it appears your one of us'
[08:46] <edmoore> i should get an anorak with lots of pockets
[08:46] <daveake> :)
[08:47] <jcoxon> edmoore, ukhas would insist that your wore clothes underneath said anorak
[08:47] <daveake> afk packing the car
[08:47] <daveake> oh and yesterday was the first shorts-day of the year
[08:47] <edmoore> heh
[08:47] <edmoore> thankfully my record is upheld
[08:48] <daveake> :)
[08:48] <edmoore> as i was shorts in febraury
[08:48] <Vaizki> we had this similar case in Finland in the late 90's.. someone from an Oulu student dorm was trying to guess passwords into a private FTP site in Helsinki university.. so the FTP admin contacted the student dorm network admin who wrote a note 'stop hammering my FTP' and dropped it through his mail slot
[08:48] <daveake> Jan 1st ?
[08:48] <edmoore> (.... in delhi)
[08:48] <Vaizki> it stopped within 5 mins
[08:48] <daveake> cheating
[08:48] <daveake> I once printed "Please secure your WLAN" on someone's network printer
[08:49] <daveake> ^ lie, but it was there, available
[08:50] <mfa298> we used to do that (legitimately) to insecure printers on the network when I started working
[08:50] <mfa298> one person hated it as it crashed their network printers each week
[08:50] <edmoore> i once played the British national anthem on a 20MW german natural gas compressor
[08:50] <edmoore> that caused problems
[08:51] <edmoore> but it made a point
[08:51] <Vaizki> ...
[08:52] <mfa298> we also did the "We think your computer might have a problem" email to someone who's network port was at 100% utilization 24/7.
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[08:52] <mfa298> the pictures of his storage setup were pretty impressive.
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[08:52] <edmoore> yeah there was a guy like that at college
[08:53] <edmoore> he was legendary (so I'm told) within CUDN
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[08:53] <edmoore> chu_porn
[08:54] <jcoxon> haha
[08:55] <edmoore> jcoxon remembers
[08:55] <jcoxon> i don't directly remember
[08:55] <edmoore> :)
[08:55] <jcoxon> there was that program we used to share files
[08:56] <jcoxon> something like direct share
[08:56] <edmoore> yeah
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[08:58] <jcoxon> but then cudn shut that down i think
[08:58] <Vaizki> direct connect?
[08:58] <jcoxon> but then being cambridge someone just wrote something new
[08:58] <Vaizki> dc++ and friends...
[08:58] <jcoxon> Vaizki, yes that was it
[08:58] <edmoore> yeah dc++
[08:58] <edmoore> wow memories
[08:59] <Vaizki> remember FSP
[08:59] <Vaizki> running ftp-like udp service without root in uni machines..
[08:59] <jcoxon> obviously we weren't involved in any of these activities
[09:00] <edmoore> no.
[09:00] <edmoore> back in 30 mins
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[09:01] <Vaizki> naturally you merely observed this like Jane Goodall, wondering wtf are these monkeys up to....
[09:01] <Vaizki> excuse me, apes
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[09:25] Action: mfa298 remembers tracking down some of the dc++ networks on the network, although the 100% utilization guy predated that
[09:26] <mfa298> it was something like 1.6TB of useful storage in the days when 200G PATA drives were big (or possibly even earlier)
[09:34] <cm13g09> morning mfa298
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[09:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Uh ? Is the tracker map really clear ?
[09:59] <Vaizki> no
[10:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh despite refreshes its not showing ANY balloons even on ALL!!
[10:00] <Vaizki> maybe 15 stations in the UK on my map
[10:00] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: Same here
[10:00] <Vaizki> oh balloons.. no balloons.
[10:00] <henryplumb> I can't see any either :(
[10:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes stations but no balloons - ah tks!
[10:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Clearing it for tomorrow perhaps!
[10:01] <craag> It will have a few on tomorrow ;)
[10:01] <henryplumb> yeah, it's gunna be pretty cluttered tomorrow :L
[10:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Hoping we might see Kent_HAB1 today actually! Tmrrw can wait ;-)
[10:02] <Vaizki> {"positions": {"position": [
[10:02] <Vaizki> ]}}
[10:02] <Vaizki> that's the whole response from the server
[10:02] <Vaizki> for All balloons
[10:02] <Vaizki> and All timeframe
[10:02] <daveake> Yes it was cleared
[10:02] <Vaizki> http://spacenear.us/tracker/datanew.php?mode=all&type=positions&format=json&max_positions=0&position_id=0&vehicles=
[10:03] <craag> The server is going to be hit hard tomorrow - a small dataset is a good thing!
[10:03] <daveake> I'll put my car on just to give you something to watch :)
[10:03] <Vaizki> ok :)
[10:03] <daveake> laterz .. off to launch site
[10:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Tks Dave its not right being this clear!
[10:04] <Vaizki> new stations popping up
[10:05] <edmoore> coffee
[10:05] <edmoore> it's just the best
[10:06] <Vaizki> we have HABUni on the map
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[10:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah ha HABUni appears
[10:06] <infaddict> morning
[10:06] <Vaizki> gotta catch them all
[10:06] <edmoore> that was the coffee at work
[10:07] <edmoore> hmm that's really close to me
[10:09] <edmoore> so their predicition isn;t great
[10:09] <Vaizki> and it's going up
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[10:09] <edmoore> wonder if the ballsed up the fill
[10:09] <craag> edmoore: 2.6m/s - looks like it!
[10:09] <Vaizki> ouch
[10:09] <craag> big wet oops
[10:10] <craag> wat
[10:10] <edmoore> lol
[10:10] <Vaizki> 2-way lora and an abort would be nice just about now
[10:10] <edmoore> they have problems
[10:10] <Vaizki> oooops
[10:10] <edmoore> their cockup or did it get through the checksum soehow?
[10:10] <craag> I can't even see how they managed that :P
[10:10] <Vaizki> -115m/s?
[10:10] <craag> It was rxed by 2x receivers
[10:10] <craag> So guessing that was transmitted
[10:11] <Vaizki> hehe
[10:11] <jcoxon> perhaps we have a floater...
[10:11] <dbrooke> I'm only uploading what I receive 8-)
[10:11] <edmoore> in the sense of shit in a bowl, yes
[10:11] Nick change: dbrooke -> db_g6gzh
[10:12] <jcoxon> nice
[10:13] <jcoxon> the predictor is a little confused
[10:13] <craag> prediction now thinks it's burst.
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[10:13] <edmoore> well basically it's quite windy and they're going up really slowly
[10:14] <edmoore> so unless they burst low i think they might have some problems
[10:14] <jcoxon> i think it might be a parse error
[10:14] <jcoxon> as we just had the same issue
[10:15] <db_g6gzh> glitching into 'mexican' mode
[10:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/Kent_HAB1_20150319/
[10:17] <edmoore> the devil
[10:20] <PE2G> !flights
[10:20] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2G: Current flights: 03Kent_HAB1 10(863d)
[10:21] <PE2G> !dial 863d
[10:21] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2G: Latest dials for 03Kent_HAB1 10(863d): 03434.075326 MHz, 434.0757 MHz, 434.075 MHz, 21.0082 MHz
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[10:25] <db_g6gzh> could do with an ignore if height==16960 filter
[10:25] <Vaizki> is that really rtty?
[10:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not many lead in characters either
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[10:27] <fsphil> is it jumping to the same altitude each time?
[10:27] <db_g6gzh> so far always 16960
[10:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/Kent_HAB1_20150319/HABUni_201503191026.jpg
[10:29] <db_g6gzh> Vaizki: it is RTTY but has slight FM noise spikes so possibly a lack of decoupling somewhere
[10:29] <Vaizki> what freq?
[10:29] <Vaizki> '
[10:30] <Vaizki> I stole amell's radio ;)
[10:30] <db_g6gzh> 434.075
[10:30] <Vaizki> ok I don't see it there
[10:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> !dial
[10:30] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[10:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> !dial HABUni
[10:30] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Latest dials for 03Kent_HAB1 10(863d): 03434.075938 MHz, 21.0082 MHz, 434.0755 MHz, 434.075326 MHz, 434.0757 MHz, 434.075 MHz
[10:31] <db_g6gzh> he's not far from me so should be able to hear it
[10:34] <Vaizki> some strong signals about on 434.125 for example but I can't see the RTTY
[10:35] <Vaizki> well this is hit & miss anyway over the network it seems
[10:35] <db_g6gzh> I don't know what antenna he has, mine is reasonably in the clear and it's flat terrain hereabouts
[10:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> He's strong for me appeared well below the horizon caused by the downs
[10:36] <Vaizki> X-50 at 10m
[10:37] <db_g6gzh> that should be OK
[10:37] <Vaizki> I see a single peak at 434.0705 but it's not rtty, looks like a carrier only
[10:38] <db_g6gzh> 520Hz shift
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[10:38] <db_g6gzh> but spends a few seconds on mark between sentences
[10:40] <db_g6gzh> about 50% sentence/mark actually
[10:41] <mightymik> freq?
[10:41] <db_g6gzh> 434.075
[10:41] <Vaizki> well I see nothing. might be that this remote setup is knackered.
[10:41] <Vaizki> oh there was a feint whhisper now
[10:43] <db_g6gzh> it's 1.4° elevation so if there are local obstructions ...
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[10:44] <fsphil> I can't think where 16960 is coming from
[10:44] <fsphil> the coordinates and time are both fine
[10:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> You can hear frequency jumps during the high period as someone said poor supply regulation perhaps ?
[10:47] <fsphil> same value every time though
[10:47] <fsphil> a power problem enough to affect the program would probably just crash or reset it
[10:48] <fsphil> would be interesting to take a look at the code
[10:48] <fsphil> interseting, or horrific.
[10:48] <db_g6gzh> 8-)
[10:48] <mattbrejza> where is dave off to i wonder...
[10:48] <db_g6gzh> it does seem a strange one
[10:49] <Vaizki> ok now I can hear RTTY but not decode yet
[10:49] <db_g6gzh> it's faded a bit with me now and the 433.9 ISM splatter is winning
[10:49] <henryplumb> mattbrejza: he said he was going to the launch site
[10:50] <mattbrejza> i assumed so
[10:50] <henryplumb> :)
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[10:51] <mightymik> 7e2?
[10:51] <mattbrejza> yea
[10:52] <db_g6gzh> 7N2 50/520
[10:52] <fsphil> pretty steady 2.3m/s ascent in the last 20 minutes
[10:52] <nickjohnson> Okay, stupid question: the RTL-SDR's dongle is 75 ohms input, while my broadband amp's output is 50 ohms output. Assuming I care, how do I convert the impedances?
[10:53] <mattbrejza> transformer, LC match
[10:53] <mattbrejza> its 0.18dB loss iirc
[10:53] <jcoxon> fsphil, it'll be interesting when we go above 16960 and see what happens
[10:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> It won't be 75 Ohms at all frequeinces either
[10:54] <craag> If the amp is an exotic one (eg. pga103+), there's a chance it might get a bit unhappy.
[10:55] <craag> But 99% will be fine.
[10:55] <nickjohnson> Are there premade feedthrough devices that can do this for me, with SMA connectors?
[10:55] HABUNI (55ffe979@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.255.233.121) joined #highaltitude.
[10:55] <craag> I wouldn't worry aobut it
[10:55] <fsphil> morning HABUNI
[10:55] <HABUNI> hi guys, currently in car tracking habuni
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[10:55] <nickjohnson> Alright then :P
[10:56] <craag> o/ HABUNI
[10:56] <craag> What's you expected burst altitude?
[10:56] <nickjohnson> And for anyone who's played with RTL-SDR dongles - what's good for doing spectrum analysis, and supports sampling a wider band than the attached dongle can sample simultaneously (eg, scanning the frequency range)?
[10:56] <craag> (and do you have a boat)?
[10:56] <mattbrejza> could try the coast guard
[10:56] <db_g6gzh> I've fed 2 ICOM receivers and a LoRa chip from the o/p of HABamp using just T pieces. Probably less loss than using a matched splitter?
[10:57] <mattbrejza> such a shame they wouldnt let us use the helicoper for recovery tomorrow
[10:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Helicoptors aren't much good they tend to shred the teher line before you get close
[10:58] <mattbrejza> they also didnt have any boats out :(
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[10:59] <habuni-car> bad receptioj n in car
[10:59] <db_g6gzh> nickjohnson: someone posted a script to use rtl_power for wideband spectrum plots
[10:59] <craag> habuni-car: What's your expected burst altitude?
[10:59] <fsphil> assuming 33km, http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=3c4dd70c8f967db8ad8b151d4c8d9527feb26d6c
[10:59] <habuni-car> 265km
[10:59] <habuni-car> 25km
[10:59] <fsphil> hehe
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[10:59] <henryplumb> habuni-car: can you put your car on the mpa?
[10:59] <craag> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=e0be76740f417ba1fb41324477fc0d4cec30fc9f
[11:00] <habuni-car> weere trying
[11:00] <habuni-car> but the app idsnt showing
[11:00] <henryplumb> habuni-car: that's a shame
[11:00] <nickjohnson> Hm, does rtl_power operate interactively?
[11:00] <craag> habuni-car: Which app?
[11:00] <nickjohnson> That is, can you see events as they happen?
[11:00] <habuni-car> hab tracker
[11:00] <habuni-car> our rtl is intermittent
[11:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Wide spectrums http://www.rtl-sdr.com/rtl_power-instructions/
[11:01] <craag> habuni-car: iphone or android?
[11:02] <habuni-car> android
[11:02] <nickjohnson> Looks like the answer is no, it logs to CSV
[11:02] <nickjohnson> I really need something that shows the spectum in realtime
[11:02] <habuni-car> ive set the callsign to HABUNI
[11:02] <craag> HAB Tracker and Modem then?
[11:02] <habuni-car> yes
[11:02] <craag> Ok, then under '
[11:02] <craag> MY Location'
[11:02] <craag> Tick the two checkboxes
[11:03] <habuni-car> sorry didnt see that
[11:03] <habuni-car> done
[11:03] <craag> (Show my location and Enable chase car reporting)
[11:03] <db_g6gzh> nickjohnson: not realtime but the link was https://github.com/corpr8/widebandradioscan
[11:03] <craag> Cool, you should be on imminently :)
[11:03] <RocketBoy> So the Ustream HD ISS feed is being turned off for schedualed maintenance tomorrow - nice timing
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[11:03] <craag> habuni-car: Working :)
[11:03] <henryplumb> habuni-car: you're on the map :)
[11:03] <nickjohnson> Thanks. I'm using it for EMI diagnosis with some nearfield probes, so it's useless to me if it's not realtime, unfortunately
[11:03] <craag> habuni-car: Now where's habuni-boat?
[11:04] <henryplumb> :P
[11:04] <RocketBoy> I smell a rat
[11:04] <jcoxon> craag, it might make it to france...
[11:04] <RocketBoy> two passes that would have captured the start and end of the eclipse
[11:04] <craag> jcoxon: If it bursts: http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=e0be76740f417ba1fb41324477fc0d4cec30fc9f
[11:05] <fsphil> slow ascent should increase the burst alt
[11:05] <fsphil> hopefully
[11:05] <fsphil> long way to go though
[11:06] <habuni-car> we will see!
[11:07] <jcoxon> craag, oh noes!
[11:07] <habuni-car> boat is being prepped now
[11:08] <craag> really? awesome
[11:09] <craag> Might be well out towards guernsey if you mis-estimated the fill.
[11:09] <craag> Or a lot further if jcoxon is right and it floats...
[11:10] <jcoxon> floating isn't a bad optin
[11:10] <Vaizki> let's hope it floats or floats
[11:10] <jcoxon> french recovery isn't too bad if you rally the rescue teams...
[11:15] <fsphil> nice excuse for a trip to france
[11:15] <craag> We've been trying to justify it for tomorrow ;)
[11:15] <fsphil> hah
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[11:23] <infaddict> anyone know who G7SVI is?
[11:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Clive in Poole
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[11:31] <infaddict> thx Geoff-G8DHE... i'm moving to Bmth/Poole this year
[11:32] <Vaizki> to catch more balloons? ;)
[11:33] <infaddict> haha yep thats a good byproduct of the relocation ;-)
[11:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://qrz.com is your friend ;-)
[11:34] <craag> extreme move infaddict, didn't you say you're up on the tyne atm?
[11:35] <infaddict> yep, so moving 350 mile South!
[11:35] <infaddict> work related. i've worked for a company in Bmth for 14 years.
[11:35] <infaddict> working from home and now time to head down
[11:36] <edmoore> infaddict, cool
[11:36] <edmoore> welcome to civilisation
[11:36] <edmoore> hopefully upu isn't listening
[11:36] <fsphil> oi
[11:36] <fsphil> the north is a powerhouse now, didn't you hear?
[11:37] <infaddict> powerhouse of football ;-)
[11:38] <fsphil> jcoxon: I'm guessing it'll drop down to 16960m after it passes it
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[11:47] <DL7AD> !flight HABUni
[11:47] <SpacenearUS> 03DL7AD: Flight 10(863d): 03Kent_HAB1 10(1 payload) - Launch date 03Today at 10:00 from 03Warwickshire, UK 10(52.02347,-1.58169)
[11:47] <DL7AD> !payload HABUni
[11:47] <SpacenearUS> 03DL7AD: Payload 03Kent_HAB1 10(863d) 03$$HABUni - 03Kent_HAB - 03434.075 MHz USB 03RTTY 50/425Hz ASCII-7 none 2
[11:49] <infaddict> HabUni now require a boat.
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[11:52] <infaddict> extremely uniform ascent graph (except the peaks) hmmm
[11:53] <henryplumb> fsphil: I think you were on the money about it jumping down peaks now
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[11:53] Nick change: [1]chrisstubbs -> chrisstubbs
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[11:55] <infaddict> yep so now jumping down to that same altitude
[11:56] <henryplumb> i wonder what's so special about 16,960m lol
[11:58] <infaddict> if lucky it will land on the beach or in the estuary - prediction jumping from there to out at sea
[11:59] <craag> It'll be out to see unless it bursts particularly early
[11:59] <craag> *sea
[11:59] <craag> The inland ones are only when the sudden drop from the spike makes the predictor think it's just burst.
[12:00] <henryplumb> yeah, the predictor keeps getting into a bit of a flap whenever it drops :L
[12:00] <Vaizki> the map icon for burst is not very visible
[12:02] <infaddict> good point craag
[12:02] <Vaizki> http://www.thinwithin.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Boom.jpg
[12:02] <Vaizki> here's a new burst icon
[12:04] <henryplumb> haha :P
[12:08] <habunicar> Anyone got a boat?
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[12:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> What's wrong with swimming ?
[12:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> Send the Kracken after it http://track.poseidon.sgsphysics.co.uk/
[12:12] <habunicar> are you offering?
[12:15] <nickjohnson> Hm. I think I can get Hammond to make a few red cases for the Tsunami, for people who back the red PCB :)
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[12:21] <henryplumb> habunicar: http://weymouthleisure.com/weymouth-small-boat-hire/
[12:21] <craag> If they were spot on with the 25km burst, it will still hit dry land.
[12:22] <craag> *just*
[12:22] <henryplumb> craag: fingers crossed - i suppose this is where uplink LoRa would be nice
[12:22] <craag> mm or geofence cutdown
[12:22] <henryplumb> yeah
[12:23] <henryplumb> burst now would be nice
[12:23] <habunicar> We are anticipating 26km
[12:23] <henryplumb> if it goes to 26k you'll probably want a boat ;)
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[12:24] <Vaizki> habunicar, what happened? underfill?
[12:25] <craag> 26km may be ok
[12:25] <craag> depending on chute
[12:26] <henryplumb> think it's going to be close either way
[12:26] <habunicar> Sorry we meant 26km
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[12:28] <henryplumb> habunicar: what's the predicted descent for your chute?
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[12:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> 26Kms
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[12:32] <Vaizki> isn't this altitude problem what the patch filters are for...
[12:33] <Vaizki> or hotfix filter...
[12:33] <Vaizki> but I guess only the habitat admin can add those
[12:34] <craag> Without making a new payload doc, making a new flight doc, approving the new flight doc - yes.
[12:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Normally only used for problems with actual sentence structure, but since asking that people test before approving flight docs demand is now a lot less!
[12:34] <craag> And it's a minor error
[12:34] <craag> Not affecting tracking
[12:35] <henryplumb> 27 and still climbing...
[12:35] <craag> Everything now depends on how rubbish their parachute is
[12:35] <craag> the rubbisher, the better :)
[12:36] <craag> If it bursts right now, it might land west of weymouth
[12:36] <craag> Else, it's gonna land east...
[12:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> I reckon their aiming for Portland Prison exercise yard!
[12:36] <henryplumb> that would just be unfortunate :L
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[12:42] <craag> burst :)
[12:43] <henryplumb> i wonder how big their chute is
[12:43] <craag> bloody big looks to be the answer
[12:44] <henryplumb> haha
[12:44] <henryplumb> in the sea methinks
[12:44] <craag> yep, no question.
[12:46] <henryplumb> they better get that boat ;)
[12:48] <tweetBot> @philcrump2: Southampton University Spaceflight are flying 2x Live Image Pis during the eclipse, more info: http://t.co/yJvwF8Q0HB #ukhas #hamr #hamradio
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[12:50] <fsphil> aww
[12:50] <fsphil> hope they really do have a boat
[12:51] <fsphil> that would gain them many hab points
[12:51] <henryplumb> http://weymouthleisure.com/weymouth-small-boat-hire/
[12:51] <craag> 12:08 < habunicar> Anyone got a boat?
[12:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup but if they land on the West side you have the Portland Race to consider ....
[12:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_race
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[12:54] <henryplumb> That's a point :L
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[12:58] <henryplumb> unicar: what's the plan?
[13:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Probably http://goo.gl/maps/nl7yR
[13:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its got a good view of both sides
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[13:01] <Vaizki> I have a boat
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[13:01] <Vaizki> it's not in Weymouth though...
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[13:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Well if their car can take it just run down here http://goo.gl/maps/eEDDn
[13:03] <henryplumb> :P
[13:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/Kent_HAB1_20150319/HABUni_201503191306.jpg
[13:07] <Vaizki> they've got a 20 knot surface wind pushing them out to sea...
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[13:12] <infaddict> i wonder what their original prediction said - how close to coast
[13:12] <henryplumb> infaddict - that would be interesting to know
[13:13] <henryplumb> the 2.3m/s ascent probably didn't help
[13:13] <junderwood> 1000 bonus HAB points if they land on Chesil Beach
[13:13] <infaddict> tons of boats around portland. might find a charitable owner.
[13:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its aiming for the Ferry Bridge at the moment!
[13:13] <infaddict> yep junderwood that would be one hell of a landing!
[13:14] <henryplumb> need to find a charitable fisherman
[13:14] <infaddict> just tell them its for BBC stargazing and bound to get a taker ;-)
[13:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.sailingalmanac.com/Almanac/Navigation/portlandbill.html
[13:16] <Vaizki> if there's a lifeboat on the beach....
[13:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> All the boats leave from the harbour side, nothing is allowed to launch from the Chesil Bank side
[13:16] <infaddict> doesnt look like any marina or harbours or boats on that west coast
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[13:17] <infaddict> mmm it can be a nasty stretch of water around the bottom, depending on tides and wind
[13:19] <Vaizki> wind is from northeast which helps
[13:19] <fsphil> definitly in the sea then
[13:19] <infaddict> still at 3000m over beach
[13:19] <Vaizki> except it will push the payload out to sea
[13:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> They will get some shelter from the wind as they come down pass the Bill itself
[13:20] <infaddict> mightve been able to see it depending on cloud. shame chase car too far away.
[13:21] <Vaizki> still getting on SUWS websdr
[13:21] <Vaizki> getting it
[13:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.westbay.co.uk/webcam/lymebay.php
[13:22] <infaddict> nice day
[13:22] <fsphil> it's going to be Horus 8 all over again: http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/DSC_0422.jpg
[13:22] <fsphil> only much much colder
[13:22] <infaddict> descent has slowed
[13:22] <fsphil> and less chance of being eaten by a shark
[13:22] <infaddict> lol fsphil
[13:23] <infaddict> at least they've had a nice drive out today
[13:23] <Vaizki> 7km out to sea from shore at least...
[13:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/Kent_HAB1_20150319/HABUni_201503191323.jpg
[13:24] <infaddict> down to 2 rx now
[13:25] <Vaizki> I am also seeing on SUSW but not uploading
[13:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> just visible on my wf but no decodes now
[13:25] <Vaizki> fading into noise now though
[13:25] <henryplumb> 1 rx
[13:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> gone for me
[13:26] <infaddict> just ASTRA now
[13:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> DEV88 should get it
[13:26] <fsphil> soon
[13:27] <infaddict> think chase car mightve turned back home
[13:27] <henryplumb> DEV88 was on rx list until about 2 mins ago
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[13:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> 3G coverage is poor down that way
[13:27] <fsphil> 560m, impressive
[13:28] <henryplumb> what antenna has ASTRA got?
[13:28] <fsphil> still going
[13:29] <infaddict> yep, surely the island has to get in the way soon
[13:29] <henryplumb> 527 - think that's it
[13:29] <PE2G> http://www.vesselfinder.com/?p=1719
[13:29] <infaddict> yep >1m since last rx now
[13:29] <infaddict> well that was fun ;-)
[13:29] <infaddict> ooh chase car re-appeared very close now
[13:29] <DL7AD> splashdown
[13:30] <infaddict> time to re-engineer my payload with an EPIRB
[13:30] <edmoore> i like cutdowns
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[13:31] <edmoore> they are a good feature
[13:31] <infaddict> theres a 60,000 tonne car carrier nearby
[13:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> And with LoRa links easy to arrange ..
[13:31] <SpeedEvil> That's a heavy car.
[13:31] <edmoore> sure
[13:31] <edmoore> although autonomous cutdowns are also fun
[13:31] <infaddict> http://www.vesselfinder.com/?p=1719
[13:31] <infaddict> lol sry PE2G missed your link
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[13:33] <f5ct> Good day to all
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[13:59] <henryplumb> Any news of HABUni?
[13:59] <henryplumb> *on
[14:06] <infaddict> car is on portland. payload landed approx 5k offshore.
[14:06] <infaddict> no word from them
[14:09] <henryplumb> cheers
[14:09] <henryplumb> do we know which way the tide and current are going?
[14:11] <infaddict> http://www.yr.no/kart/#lat=50.5808&lon=-2.3493&zoom=8&laga=straum&proj=3575
[14:11] <infaddict> pushing it westerly then northerly
[14:11] <infaddict> it might land on a beach to the west eventually
[14:19] <henryplumb> The car is right down the bottom now :L
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[14:24] <infaddict> if they have binoculars the might see it floating if brightly coloured ;-)
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[14:24] <tweetBot> @SUSpaceflight: Got the helium, got the NOTAM, chosen chasecar callsigns, looks like we're ready for #eclipse2015 #ukhas
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[14:26] <pidpawel> btw (event description in polish) https://www.facebook.com/events/965476706796365/
[14:26] <pidpawel> one guy robably be trying make a live stream from baloon
[14:27] <pidpawel> to see tomorrows eclipse from around 30km! :D
[14:27] <pidpawel> *probably
[14:27] <pidpawel> *will be
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[14:29] <jcoxon> oh dears, sea landing
[14:29] <Vaizki> just like a real astronaut
[14:30] <pidpawel> :D
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[14:53] <infaddict> finally soldered up the HabAmp so can try cheap SDR dongle through it, via my Yagi. for mounting yagi, it will be vertical but what elevation do i need? horizontal or slightly up?
[14:54] <Vaizki> mounting where?
[14:55] <infaddict> on a camera tripod
[14:55] <infaddict> pointing roughly towards a HAB
[14:56] <infaddict> hoping i might pick up one of the 3,298 balloons up tomorrow ;-)
[14:56] <Vaizki> ah
[14:57] <Vaizki> just off the top of my head I would point it at the visible horizon
[14:57] <myself> is there, like, a launch-all-the-balloons day?
[14:58] <fsphil> yes
[14:58] <Vaizki> the queen is pardoning all balloons and clowns
[14:58] <fsphil> I am launching 50% of all the balloon I own (1)
[14:58] <infaddict> yep the sky will go dark and be full of balloons
[14:59] <infaddict> and if I can't detect one (just one) I am giving up
[14:59] <fsphil> there will be plenty of choice
[14:59] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
[15:00] <infaddict> indeed. gonna be a random selection as believe my SDR is way off real frequency.
[15:00] <fsphil> the trick will be getting a balance between all of them
[15:00] <fsphil> there will be five ssdv signals
[15:00] <infaddict> whoa phil, havent even managed RTTY yet ;-)
[15:00] <infaddict> others RTTY i mean, my own works great short range
[15:01] <fsphil> in theory you could decode all five with the sdr
[15:01] <fsphil> I think they're all close enough frequency wise
[15:02] <fsphil> 434.149 - 434.400
[15:02] <fsphil> the rtlsdr's can do 1mhz iirc
[15:03] <infaddict> i'd be happy to just see a signal first. received 0 with just a SDR and Yagi. hoping HabAmp helps.
[15:04] <infaddict> Yagi likely needs some tuning (kit build) too
[15:05] <edmoore> hopefully wide enough
[15:05] <edmoore> unless it's absurdly long
[15:06] <edmoore> where wide and long have different types in this context
[15:06] <infaddict> what kind of antenna are most guys using who track balloons regularly on here?
[15:06] <infaddict> just interested
[15:07] <infaddict> are they fixed (e.g. in loft or mounted outside) or something else
[15:07] <fsphil> roof mounted colinear here (diamond x60)
[15:07] <fsphil> or is it x50
[15:08] <edmoore> i have a watson w50
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[15:08] <edmoore> i think that and the diamonf x50 are v similar if not the same, even
[15:08] <fsphil> the watson version is good too
[15:08] <fsphil> basically the same yea
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[15:10] <infaddict> any pics?
[15:11] <fsphil> imagine a long white stick
[15:11] <Oddstr13> infaddict: you can use a FM station to adjust the ppm setting quite well, they are usually on a known frequency
[15:11] <infaddict> ha fsphil
[15:11] <fsphil> http://www.radiowave.ro/276-513-large/diamond-x50n.jpg
[15:11] <fsphil> that's basically it
[15:11] <fsphil> the radials at the bottom are the only noticable part
[15:12] <infaddict> ah right, not too obtrusive to the external of house then
[15:12] <edmoore> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/w-50_watson_2m_70cm_base_station_vertical_antenna
[15:12] <Oddstr13> Choose a FM station that has occasional silent periods, as you can more easily locate the carrier frequency then
[15:12] <infaddict> thx Oddstr13. weirdly local FM stations tune in near perfect at 98.1 and 103.5 etc... but my own NTX2B is several hundred Hz out. Im gonna reprogram it first.
[15:13] <infaddict> quite reasonable too edmoore
[15:13] <edmoore> yep
[15:13] <edmoore> you won't be dissapointed
[15:13] <infaddict> presume you mount higher the better?
[15:13] <edmoore> yep
[15:14] <Oddstr13> well, a few hundred hertz I'd say is reasonable when comparing to FM broadcast signals, as they are quite wide
[15:14] <fsphil> keep them above the local roof line if you can
[15:14] <fsphil> living on a mountain helps too
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[15:15] <infaddict> mmm thinking ahead to when i move to a new house and might get into this radio stuff a bit more. that looks like a good and cheap option. what would i receive with is the next question... FCB+, airspy or a proper radio.
[15:15] <Oddstr13> so, where are all them loons gona get launched from? the UK?
[15:15] <infaddict> yep lots here Oddstr13
[15:15] <henryplumb> Oddstr13 yup :)
[15:16] <fsphil> infaddict: if you're doing proper radio, all of them :)
[15:16] <infaddict> any planning/legal stuff to deal with mounting one on top of your house?
[15:16] <fsphil> the FCD+ is good apart from my troubles with it on linux
[15:16] <Oddstr13> any chance any of them might be heard from the middle-ish of Norway?
[15:17] <fsphil> no planning issues, though the area might have special requirements
[15:17] <craag> Oddstr13: Not really. Your best bet would be the suws websdr.
[15:18] <infaddict> yer i had FCB+ and airspy on my list.
[15:18] <Oddstr13> craag: meh, not quite the same
[15:21] <craag> I know :/
[15:21] <craag> But it would still help us out :)
[15:23] <tweetBot> @jamescoxon: Eclipse Balloon Flights (20/3/15) - live images from above the clouds http://t.co/GIxntzm1Sd #ukhas #eclipse2015 @ProfBrianCox @daraobriain
[15:25] <fsphil> if they all get launched it'll certainly be the most coverage we've ever had
[15:26] <es5nhc> Good luck all!
[15:26] <infaddict> nice work jcoxon
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[15:37] <sloopjb11> good afternoon... would like to pose/get some ideas on a HAB battery design concept... Using a solar cell... have regulator and recharging shields... which type of battery would you fly?
[15:37] <tweetBot> @jamescoxon: Eclipse Balloon Flights (20/3/15) - live images from above the clouds http://t.co/GIxntzm1Sd & #ukhas #eclipse2015 @daveake
[15:38] <edmoore> sloopjb11, lithium polymer has been the most successfully used
[15:38] <edmoore> the big thing is to make sure the cell temperature is high enough to recharge
[15:40] <edmoore> there are a bunch of strategies for that
[15:41] <edmoore> you could angle the solar cells up enough so that the sun has to get to a certain height before enough charging voltage is generated, and the batts have heated up sufficiently while the sun is rising
[15:42] <edmoore> or you might just have some threshold detector that dumps anything the solar cell generates through a resistor affixed to the battery (i.e. a heater) until the batteries are warm enough, then switches to charging
[15:42] <edmoore> or or or
[15:42] <edmoore> there is room for innovation here
[15:43] <SpeedEvil> Clear bubble-wrap round a black surface covering the battery, for example
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[15:44] <SpeedEvil> And yes, you absolutely must have some mechanism to prevent charging before it's at >-20 or >0 depending on cell.
[15:44] <jcoxon> some lipo chargers actually allow for temp sensors
[15:44] <sloopjb11> do have a microcontroller... can calculate long/time data for sunrise... got a small sparkfun heater/blanket... have some payload flexibility < 550 gms...
[15:45] <jcoxon> sloopjb11, i think leo did some calcs - heater isn't worth the energy it would take that you'd gain from charging the batt
[15:46] <edmoore> if your solar cell is generating power but the batts are too cold to recharge you might aswell use that power to heat the cells
[15:46] <sloopjb11> unless it is surplus from the solar panel?
[15:46] <edmoore> there's no point just doing nothing with it
[15:46] <jcoxon> edmoore, well you could run your payload
[15:46] <jcoxon> so not be drawing off your batt
[15:46] <edmoore> sure, we're assuming there's enough to run the payload here
[15:48] <edmoore> if you have the mass budget you might consider forgoing batteries
[15:48] <edmoore> and using a supercap or something instead
[15:48] <sloopjb11> we fly lipos on our big model planes here... the lipo is a beast... but likes charging current...
[15:48] <edmoore> if you have 500g to play with and you don;t need it all for electronics then i'd be inclined to try a supercap
[15:48] <edmoore> it doesn't care what you do to it, really
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[15:50] <edmoore> you can just charge whenever you want with whatever current you want
[15:50] <sloopjb11> no... no... not 550 excess... 550 total with 30 gms budget for a regulator... our design is at: www.jupiterspacestation.org/rcmodeling
[15:51] <edmoore> direct links preferred
[15:51] <edmoore> this one? http://www.jupiterspacestation.org/rcmodeling/balloon.html
[15:52] <sloopjb11> yes... that one...
[15:52] <edmoore> ok
[15:52] <edmoore> so what's the total mass budget for the power system?
[15:53] <edmoore> it's spread about acoss multiple boxes there
[15:53] <edmoore> and i can disentangle battery mass from sero or transmitter mass
[15:53] <edmoore> servo*
[15:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Object Movie of the Kent Uni flight today http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/Kent_HAB1_20150319/Kent-Uni_20150319.html
[15:53] <sloopjb11> current batt (lion) is 130 gms... 30 gms for regulator...
[15:54] <infaddict> Geoff-G8DHE: does it have splashdown?!
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[15:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> Only my estimated location following the path down from the precedding fixes
[15:55] <edmoore> ok, so you have about 150g mass budget all-in
[15:55] <sloopjb11> in testing the lion locked out...
[15:55] <sloopjb11> 150g... approx, yes...
[15:55] <edmoore> what is is a lock out in this context?
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[15:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> infaddict, Download the KMZ file for a deglitched path. launch and splashdown location ! http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2015_Flights/Kent_HAB1_20150319/index.php?ind=0
[15:57] <sloopjb11> lock out... refuses to charge... happened in 1 of 4 batts tested...
[15:57] <edmoore> right
[15:57] <edmoore> well lithium ion is a vague term
[15:57] <edmoore> it's used as a catch-all for a bunch of different lithium-based battery chemistries
[15:58] <edmoore> so I'd find something specific, read up on how to feed them, temperature considerations and so on, then have another go
[15:58] <edmoore> you might have to check your charging circuit is appropriate for the specific chemistry
[16:00] <sloopjb11> might consider another brand...the lock out occurred in the manufacturers re-charging cradle....
[16:00] <edmoore> for this application you might need to apply a bit more science
[16:00] <edmoore> for example, make your own charging and discharging rig, and temperature-controlled environment
[16:01] <edmoore> and then test a bunch of different brands under representative conditions
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[16:03] <sloopjb11> thanks for the consult... signing out... john
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[16:04] <edmoore> always... very... welcome...
[16:05] <edmoore> if an ent... were to use... irc............
[16:05] <edmoore> ...... i imagine... they would write....
[16:05] <edmoore> ...
[16:05] <edmoore> like this...
[16:06] <craag> laughing... out.......
[16:06] <craag> .... loud
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQCLrtgfRis - neat. dynamic CFD of rocket engines
[16:07] <Oddstr13> temperature controlled environment? freezer!
[16:07] <SpeedEvil> I wish the full video were available
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[16:08] <edmoore> very pretty
[16:09] <edmoore> what you then want to do is to build a model of the engine and put loads of tiny pressure tappings along the nozzle wall to see where the shocks form and reflect and where the flow detaches and so on
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> Screw that actually. Code
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:10] <SpeedEvil> And yes - without ground truth, you have nothing
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[16:10] <SpeedEvil> Well - other than really, really awesome stuff for KSP
[16:13] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
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[16:14] <infaddict> anybody looked up at jupiter recently? even with my fairly small scope i can see the 4 moons horiztonally. quite rare.
[16:16] <edmoore> infaddict, yep
[16:16] <edmoore> from work: https://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/8371635224/
[16:16] <infaddict> nice, good colour
[16:17] <infaddict> whats that taken thru?
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> nice
[16:17] <edmoore> a telescope
[16:17] <SpeedEvil> Boom Boom.
[16:17] <edmoore> er, a meade something-or-other
[16:17] <edmoore> 8" maybe
[16:17] <infaddict> edmoore: is here all week
[16:17] <fsphil> I got one of the guys photographing the eclipse to try jupiter with his nikon and kit lens, he was able to resolve all four moons, just about
[16:17] <edmoore> meade lx90
[16:18] <fsphil> saturn is great through a nice scope like that
[16:18] <infaddict> yer, my cheap scope (< £150) can see the 4 moons but literally just specs
[16:19] <infaddict> too much light pollution here too
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[16:19] <fsphil> you can try a better eyepiece
[16:19] <fsphil> my celestron eyepieces on a cheap refractor is good enough to see the main belts on jupiter
[16:19] <infaddict> saturn looks like a burger, can see the rings but whole thing is smal
[16:20] <infaddict> yep i see the belts and sometimes the spot
[16:20] <fsphil> now that I've never seen
[16:20] <fsphil> it never seems to be there when I look
[16:20] <infaddict> that was 4 years ago mind, havent used scope much since
[16:20] <fsphil> I'd better hurry up, the spot is fading
[16:20] <edmoore> i have seen saturn through the meade
[16:20] <edmoore> it was a glory
[16:21] <infaddict> mm i bet edmoore... next time get us a piccy!
[16:21] <fsphil> the orion nebula is worth a go too with a nice big eyepiece
[16:22] <infaddict> yep never managed to see that properly due to light pollution here. i have a designated night sky about an hour away so must get up there on a clear night.
[16:22] <edmoore> yeah i'd need to go somewhere dark and dry
[16:22] <edmoore> no nun jokes plz
[16:22] <fsphil> yea. my back garden is useless these days
[16:22] <infaddict> they put a sodding street light right on my fence
[16:22] <fsphil> the town has overtaken me
[16:23] <infaddict> i am few hundred metres from coast tho so in summer i take the scope over there and chill with a beer
[16:23] <infaddict> at least looking east is pitch black
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[16:23] <fsphil> I don't really see the milkyway anymore
[16:23] <infaddict> sadly a lot of interesting objects are mostly South for me
[16:23] <edmoore> there is a dark sky site in northumbria i believe?
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> infaddict: people have had good results pointing laser pointers on tripods at streetlights
[16:23] <edmoore> near you
[16:23] <infaddict> yep kielder forest
[16:23] <infaddict> and observatory
[16:24] <infaddict> they do excellent open evenings
[16:24] <uobgemini> Hello. Could I be added to the UKHAS wiki edit list? I would likr to add information on the University of Birmingham balloon launch.
[16:24] <infaddict> the milky way there is awesome
[16:24] <fsphil> when are you launching uobgemini?
[16:24] <uobgemini> 9am tomorrow
[16:24] <fsphil> oh nice
[16:25] <uobgemini> Yeah for the eclipse
[16:25] <fsphil> are you transmitting on 434mhz?
[16:25] <uobgemini> Yeah just APRS GPS coordinates
[16:25] <edmoore> aprs?
[16:25] <fsphil> what frequency? there are about 5 others
[16:25] <fsphil> we need to be careful there is no overlap
[16:25] <uobgemini> 434.5 MHz I believe
[16:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> APRS on 434Mhz ?
[16:26] <uobgemini> Yes
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[16:26] <edmoore> uobgemini, you should find out for sure
[16:26] <edmoore> otherwise you might have to scrub if it's wrong
[16:26] <jcoxon> maybe its just packet
[16:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Are you using an amateur callsign ?
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[16:29] <uobgemini> Yes
[16:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> Amateur radio isn't allowed airborne!
[16:29] <fsphil> it's not amateur radio if it's 10mw on 434mhz
[16:30] <jcoxon> uobgemini, i can sort of the wiki edit
[16:30] Action: fsphil closes that can of worms :)
[16:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Agreed but using an amateur callsign airborne is not allowed!
[16:31] <edmoore> yes it is
[16:31] <fsphil> callsign is fine
[16:31] <edmoore> you can do whatever the hell you like if it's within the power exemption
[16:32] <edmoore> there are no magical reserved text-strings that it's illegal to broadcast
[16:32] <craag> Yeah, it could be mis-interpreted as someone using 10mW under the ham license. But saying "I'm using ISM" is enough for it to be totally fine.
[16:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Don't actually agree so we will have to agree to disagree
[16:32] <edmoore> we've done this one to death
[16:32] <fsphil> yep :)
[16:33] <edmoore> an example of hams getting too big for their boots
[16:33] Action: fsphil checks the can of worms, it's empty
[16:33] <fsphil> just one of the joys of overlapping bands
[16:33] <infaddict> lol at least that didnt last long
[16:33] <fsphil> hah
[16:34] <fsphil> I think 434.500 should be fine, as long as one of the B's doesn't show up
[16:34] <jcoxon> haha
[16:34] <uobgemini> Yes definitely 434.5 MHz
[16:35] <jcoxon> uobgemini, i've sorted your wiki account - see the pm
[16:35] <uobgemini> Thank you very much!
[16:35] <infaddict> jcoxon, i'd like to setup my own project page to account my story. any chance u can sort me out access when you have time pls?
[16:36] <fsphil> so that's four uk launches tomorrow, 6 payloads?
[16:36] <jcoxon> infaddict, whats your registered wiki name?
[16:37] <infaddict> jcoxon: it is "infaddict" (just registered)
[16:38] <jcoxon> done
[16:39] <infaddict> thanks!
[16:40] <amell> APRS on 434.500? How wide is that FM bandwidth&
[16:41] <amell> would it conflict with rimmer on 434.450?
[16:41] <jcoxon> anybody else need wiki stuff while i'm logged in?
[16:41] <fsphil> 15khz-ish
[16:41] <craag> No. It'll be 25KHz at worse.
[16:41] <fsphil> that said rimmer is pretty wideband too
[16:41] <amell> yes, it is lora as well
[16:42] <craag> Ah
[16:42] <craag> What BW?
[16:42] <amell> 20.8kHz
[16:42] <amell> a bit close for comfort?
[16:43] <craag> So there'll be >=54 KHz of space between them.
[16:43] <fsphil> think it's fine
[16:43] <craag> *24
[16:43] <amell> even when the APRS one is FM?
[16:44] <craag> 29KHz even
[16:44] <craag> 50 - (25/2 + 20.8/2)
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[17:08] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: #UKHAS List of #SolarEclipse 434 MHz Balloon Launches March 20 http://t.co/CElrkMK69x #amsat #hamradio #hamr #Eclipse2015
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[17:32] <Solaris-CQ> hello everyone, I am from the Gemini 1 team (the last project from the link above)
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[17:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> Hello
[17:33] <Solaris-CQ> does anyone want to join the tracking effort tomorrow ?
[17:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> You will need to specify the details if you want us too!
[17:34] <Solaris-CQ> we are sending standard APRS packets on 434.5 MHz
[17:35] <Solaris-CQ> the procedure is the same as for the APRS on 144.8, capture the packets, decode and upload to the APRS network
[17:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> what callsign will you use to track it with ?
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[17:38] <Solaris-CQ> LZ2WIN-11, I dont know if its appropriate to use a custom callsign on the APRS network
[17:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thats Vergil callsign ?
[17:39] <Solaris-CQ> yes, that is me
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[17:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK we know what to looik for in APRS.Fi then
[17:40] <Solaris-CQ> thanks
[17:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> and as its not a UK callsign shouldn't be a problem!
[17:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh waht power will you be running ?
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[17:48] <Solaris-CQ> 10mW
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[17:53] <gethralkin> hello
[17:54] Nick change: db_g6gzh -> dbrooke
[17:55] <gethralkin> I have a research project that involves attempting to place a phonesat in lagrange orbit, and I am wanting to minimize mass to conserve fuel and loft my insertion vehicle with a HAB...
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[17:56] <gethralkin> What i am concerned about is what requirements and/or regulations I have to meet or pass to do it.
[17:57] <gethralkin> anybody here?
[17:57] <Solaris-CQ> yes
[17:57] <gethralkin> ah, splendid
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[17:57] <adamgreig> you want to launch your phonesat into orbit from a hab?
[17:57] <gethralkin> yes
[17:57] <jcoxon> gethralkin, you planning to launch a rocket from a HAB?
[17:58] <gethralkin> yes, using a navy trick of drop chute upright orientation
[17:58] <gethralkin> except the HAB is the chute
[17:59] <adamgreig> that's not really an activity you can get regulatory approval for unless you _are_ the navy or similar equivalent
[17:59] <gethralkin> at HAB burst the altimiter would initiate launch
[17:59] <adamgreig> what organisation is your research project with?
[17:59] <gethralkin> I am working on trying to get Boeing and NASA interested
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[18:00] <adamgreig> I think they already have some quite well developed systems to launch satellites into orbit
[18:00] <gethralkin> University of Texas when I propose the research
[18:00] <DL1SGP> yeah also... considering that you want to reach one of teh Lagrange points... how high is the mass of the payload you want to lift by a HAB?
[18:00] <Solaris-CQ> i dont think this is realistic
[18:00] <gethralkin> This will be as shoestring budget format for proof of principle
[18:01] <gethralkin> I will use a phonesat cube with ion thrusters
[18:01] <adamgreig> the sort of budget you'd need to reach any orbit from a hab is probably only described as shoestring by central government banks :p
[18:01] <Solaris-CQ> you will need a solid budget for this one, and the phonesat will not be your main concern ...
[18:01] <gethralkin> solar powered so little fuel needed
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[18:02] <gethralkin> lol, yeah I check ed on prices, and 7500USD for a phone sat is not quite shoestring, but I mean relative compared to million USD projects
[18:02] <Solaris-CQ> getting the phone there is the bigger problem
[18:03] <Solaris-CQ> not building the satellite itsself
[18:03] <adamgreig> your design uses ion thrusters to get from the HAB to orbit?
[18:03] <gethralkin> I plan for a launch to spiral out to mid L3/L5
[18:04] <gethralkin> no, the orbital insertion will be composite fuel
[18:04] <adamgreig> how much composite fuel?
[18:05] Action: DL1SGP was about to ask the same
[18:07] <gethralkin> I am still calculating that, I haven't quite settled but I am considering two different solid fuels and another gas/solid mixture.
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[18:10] <gethralkin> diameter would be small, and length also. an altititude of 125k-130k would be rarified, so less friction resistance makes fuel needs different than surface launch
[18:13] <gethralkin> I have research I concluded that proved focusing ultrahigh cosmic rays is possible with an electrostatic lens. and I want to use such a lens on a phonesat to measure protons and antiprotons from space. it would be like a telescope.
[18:14] <gethralkin> Getting to a lagrange point would be the first step
[18:15] <gethralkin> and launching from a HAB would be an awesome way to do it, I think; that is, if I can convince NASA and JPL that the idea is a good idea.
[18:16] <edmoore> oh cool we're doing space launch
[18:16] <edmoore> but i don't think that a HAB helps at all
[18:16] <gethralkin> why not?
[18:17] <Hiena> Size, is the matter.
[18:17] <edmoore> well when you calculated how much energy it saved you for your given payload size, what was the saving?
[18:17] <gethralkin> friction
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[18:18] <edmoore> the answer to my question is a number, not a noun or an adjective
[18:18] <gethralkin> that's the problem with fuel consumption. gaining altitude uses a lot of fuel due to resistance.
[18:18] <edmoore> see above
[18:18] <edmoore> there is only a numerical understanding of this problem
[18:18] <edmoore> if it's not numerical it's not an understanding
[18:18] <Hiena> gethralkin: It depends on the speed.
[18:19] <gethralkin> ah, got it. sorry. misunderstood
[18:19] <edmoore> you really need to sim this
[18:19] <edmoore> humans are bad at intuition of thermodynamic properties
[18:19] <edmoore> things don't scale at all well
[18:20] <edmoore> or rather at all like you think
[18:20] <gethralkin> it will definitely be simmed.
[18:20] <edmoore> you need to do it first before talking to JPL or boeing or whatever
[18:20] <edmoore> otherwise you're today's crank number 57895 from the internet
[18:20] <gethralkin> well, I haven't even written up the proposal at all yet, I am not even at the design phase.
[18:21] <edmoore> cool
[18:21] <edmoore> well, get some rough order of magnitude numbers for the energetics
[18:21] <edmoore> that will frame the problem properly
[18:21] <gethralkin> hahah, you sound just like my nuclear physics professor, lol!
[18:22] <Hiena> Burned skin flakes well, and gives better intuition for the thermodynamic calculations.
[18:22] <edmoore> well, that's engineering right?
[18:22] <edmoore> done with numbers :)
[18:22] <gethralkin> yes and yes, and I have a LOT of calculating to do. ;)
[18:22] <gethralkin> my fridge is filled much to my wife's dismay, lol
[18:23] <gethralkin> (equations with dry erase, in case anyone was wondering)
[18:24] <edmoore> my supposition is basically that for a very small saving in KE you have a very large increase in complexity of the rocket and the launch gondola
[18:24] <edmoore> vs just a slightly bigger first stage
[18:25] <gethralkin> well, I am not sure I need a gondola if the rocket just takes off once an altimeter trips at HAB burst.
[18:25] <Hiena> Or a horizontal launched single stage aerodynamic body.
[18:25] <edmoore> well the rocket needs to go up right
[18:25] <gethralkin> up, yes.
[18:26] <edmoore> so you need something to guide its launch
[18:26] <gethralkin> will also need to curve to the east
[18:26] <edmoore> you can't just have some string on the rocket nose cone
[18:26] <gethralkin> no
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[18:28] <gethralkin> shell will also need to be lightweight with a low heat conduction constant. plus it will need firewalling anyway.
[18:29] <gethralkin> and yes this is all quite a lot to ask of a project that is supposed to be minimalist
[18:29] <edmoore> yes
[18:29] <Hiena> BDR is the answer.
[18:30] <edmoore> BDR?
[18:30] <gethralkin> but I have never picked the easiest research ideas, lol.
[18:30] <Hiena> Big Dumb Rocket.
[18:30] <edmoore> well i work in a similar field to you
[18:30] <edmoore> thinking about ways of making space access much cheaper
[18:31] <Hiena> Huge rressure feed liquid engine, with huge tanks and tiny payload.
[18:31] <Hiena> -r+p
[18:31] <gethralkin> hmm.
[18:32] <edmoore> not mega convinced that BDR is going to sort out the probelm
[18:33] <Hiena> The fuel is the cheapest part any rocket propulsion system. Mr. Truax crunched the numbers for the Sea Dragon project and it was found feasible by the TRW engineers.
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[18:34] <edmoore> mmm
[18:34] <Hiena> But the rockets always will be just potato throwing.
[18:34] <gethralkin> yes, but cheaper doesn't mean safer.
[18:34] <nick_> gethralkin: you want to measure primary cosmic rays?
[18:34] <edmoore> but making something completely reusable makes fuel the only part of the rocket propulsion system
[18:34] <nick_> google AMS
[18:35] <edmoore> (to a first approximation)
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[18:36] <gethralkin> ah, meteorological society. I am actually an ANS member and intend to present my results at the next conference following my experiment.
[18:37] <nick_> No
[18:37] <gethralkin> but there won't be an experiment without a solid plan
[18:37] <gethralkin> and calculations to back it up
[18:37] <nick_> http://ams.nasa.gov/
[18:38] <nick_> For only ~$10bn you can probably measure primary cosmic rays in space too.
[18:38] <gethralkin> oh, the sat. got it. no mine will be rudimentary and prove that less can be more
[18:38] <gethralkin> I already built the thing out of salad bowls and strips of shower curtain. lol
[18:38] <nick_> The problem is you have to launch a strong magnet.
[18:39] <gethralkin> fitted with PVC of course
[18:39] <gethralkin> it isn't a magnet though
[18:39] <gethralkin> it's a rudimentary electrostatic lens
[18:40] <gethralkin> it will extend from the phonesat and charge up and focus HECRs
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[18:40] <Hiena> If we want to beat the first mile problem, we need something simple, fault tolerant and reuseable. Reuseability means single stage. Fault tolerance means means high mass and simple mechanism. Scaling up the rockets pointless due the high TO mass and the first 30 km losses, while a simple supersonic body aerodynamic could take off only 1/10th thrust as a same rocket.
[18:40] <nick_> You think you can do anything to a cosmic ray proton with electrostatics?
[18:41] <gethralkin> I have already. My second year research proved that muons are movable with a cheap vdg.
[18:42] <nick_> How much did you move them?
[18:42] <gethralkin> ah, just a minute, and I'll get that number.
[18:44] <gethralkin> I successfully detected with NaI scintillators an excess of .0151 +/- 0.0018 cps over the established muon to antimuon ratio of 1.220 +/- 0.0440
[18:45] <gethralkin> actually, the instrumentation I used successfully detected it, not me personally, lol.
[18:45] <nick_> I mean, what kinda potential can you realistically produce, few keV?
[18:45] <nick_> And you want to bend something with a few GeV...
[18:46] <nick_> I assume that's just a systematic error.
[18:46] <gethralkin> 1 million volts was the measured output of the lens
[18:46] <gethralkin> plus or minus a couple 1000
[18:47] <gethralkin> and no error, both my nuclear professor and I checked and rechecked by switching polarities of the lens.
[18:47] <nick_> So what did you do?
[18:48] <gethralkin> how do you mean?
[18:48] <nick_> Because I seriously doubt you managed to get any great deflection on those muons.
[18:49] <gethralkin> the deflection was measurable but only when accounting for both muons and antimuons.
[18:50] <gethralkin> so I had to use the charge ratio instead of the individual hits in the scintillators
[18:50] <nick_> How did you measure it?
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[18:50] <nick_> You tracked the muons with high spacial resolution?
[18:51] <gethralkin> an array of NaI detectors arranged to capture piped through signal amplifiers and SCAs in parallel configurations
[18:52] <nick_> What was the spacial resolution of the crystals?
[18:52] <gethralkin> those were then gated to eliminate false positives and piped through a counter for raw data
[18:54] <gethralkin> how do you mean? the capture area or the distance between PMTs? or something else?
[18:55] <nick_> YEah
[18:55] <gethralkin> LOL
[18:55] <nick_> I measured the cosmic charge asymmetry once as an undergrad using CMS
[18:56] <nick_> I've thought about it recently and decided it's pretty tricky to measure cheaply.
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[18:58] <gethralkin> well, for my project, the flux as f(PE) was a narrow area of interest... somewhere between 10^11 to 10^14
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[18:59] <gethralkin> so I eliminated the background and calibrated to the "low" plateau of the muonic charge ratio
[19:00] <nick_> What did you actually measure, just the flux?
[19:00] <nick_> Then you see how that changes with an electrostatic field?
[19:01] <gethralkin> that's the point. but then, muons are massive, so they are difficult to move. on the order of 200x of an electron, I believe.
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[19:02] <nick_> So you count the muons at the top of the electrostatic field and compare it to the number at the bottom?
[19:03] <nick_> I don't see how you turn that into a charge asymmetry measurement exactly.
[19:03] <nick_> Did you even calculate how much you expect the muon to deflect in the field?
[19:05] <nick_> I mean, the average muon at the surface has what, 10 - 100 GeV of momentum.
[19:07] <nick_> So, if you make them go a very long path through a MV potential you'll give them ~MeV to the side.
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[19:08] <nick_> But I guess you had a fairly short path through your potential, ~1 m, so probably you gave them ~0 MeV momentum.
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[19:10] <gethralkin> sorry, txt convo with the wife. brb
[19:14] <gethralkin> short path, yes.
[19:14] <gethralkin> limitations on the height due to the ceiling of the lab
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[19:16] <gethralkin> and the PMTs were arranged to detect deflection as mutual signals... after they all were calibrated to each other. that was a long long day with a oscilloscope
[19:17] <gethralkin> any signal that didn't make it to the lower tiers were considered not to be muon interference.
[19:17] <gethralkin> and the array took into account angle deflection.
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[19:21] <gethralkin> which wasn't much
[19:23] <gethralkin> muon = 1105.6583668 +/- 0.0000038 Mev/c^2
[19:24] <gethralkin> sorry, 105.etc
[19:24] <gethralkin> twitchy figures
[19:24] <gethralkin> what I measured was the difference of the charge ratios between positive and antipositive muons
[19:25] <gethralkin> the normal charge ratio at mean sea level is 1.220 +/- 0.440 as I mentioned before.
[19:27] <gethralkin> and I got that measurement (or relatively close to it anyway) by having the machine off for every other week between polarity flips
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[19:30] <gethralkin> anyway, this is all beside the point of the irc; I did this project on the ground and now I want to do it in space
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[19:37] <gethralkin> anyhow, thank you, edmoore, for your feedback. I need to keep things in realm of reality and reasonableness.
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[19:37] <gethralkin> and you too, Hiena. very provacative ideas. have to think on them.
[19:39] <Vaizki> Ok I just came back but is it 2029 now?
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[19:39] <Vaizki> muons? La grange points? GeV? Eep
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[19:41] <Stefan93> hey guys has anybody of you placed the parachute inside the balloon?
[19:41] <Stefan93> does it work?
[19:41] <Vaizki> Why?
[19:41] <Vaizki> 2m Limit?
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[19:42] <Stefan93> because we have a uni project and thousands of requirements to complete
[19:42] <Stefan93> yeah
[19:43] <Stefan93> vaizki have you done that? parachute inside balloon?
[19:44] <Vaizki> No i have not even touched a balloon
[19:45] <lz1dev> never even at birthday parties?
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[19:48] <stefan93_> fsdf\
[19:48] <stefan93_> hi guys i asked already but was disconnected. has anyone ever placed the parachute inside the balloon? does it work?
[19:49] <jcoxon> stefan93_, i haven't seen it done, not the easiest thing to put it inside
[19:50] <jcoxon> most people find the pre-deployed parachute works well
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[20:07] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[20:09] <nick_> gethralkin: yeah, the muon mass is ~100 MeV, but the momentum of cosmic muons at ground level is ~50 GeV
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[20:20] <gethralkin> nick: oh, gotcha. sorryt not immediate reply. had to get off a bit. but yes, momentum, I understand now. I took into account the charge ratio as a function of momentum.
[20:22] <gethralkin> momentum was initially measured by Stephens in 1979 with a /very/ nice instrumentation setup (more than I could ever afford) to be 1.E+0 to 1.E+2 GeV/c
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[20:23] <gethralkin> due to time dilation, the charge ratio is reletive to our frame of reference as being perceived moving faster than C
[20:23] <gethralkin> c
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[20:25] <nick_> Well, the charge ratio doesn't have anything to do with time dilation.
[20:25] <gethralkin> muons have a mean life of 2.19703 +/- 0.00004 microseconds at rest
[20:26] <nick_> yes, but that doesn't depend on their charge.
[20:26] <gethralkin> with their mass of 105.65etc. MeV/c^2
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[20:27] <gethralkin> dt' = ydt = dt/[sqrt1-(v^2/c^2)]
[20:27] <gethralkin> the charge ratio is mu+/mu-
[20:28] <gethralkin> and it is the charge ratio that becomes the function of momentum
[20:28] <gethralkin> (mu+/mu-) / (GeV/c)
[20:29] <nick_> Yes, it's a function of momentum, but I guess you couldn't measure it as a function of momentum, just as the integral over the momentum.
[20:30] <gethralkin> uuu, hang on let me find the journal I found that in. it's been a couple of years since my project.
[20:30] <nick_> IT's in the PDG
[20:31] <nick_> But without a large magnetic spectrometer you can't really measure the muon momentum, so you just have to measure the charge ratio integrated over the momenta.
[20:32] <nick_> However I don't understand how you could have measured the charge ratio.
[20:32] <gethralkin> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/92JA02672/pdf
[20:32] <gethralkin> yes, and over time. you got it
[20:32] <nick_> Because, again, without a large magnetic spectrometer you can't really measure the charge.
[20:33] <gethralkin> oh, and the flux also becomes a function of the magnetic deflection
[20:33] <gethralkin> the charge was significantly measured in stephens equipment without a mass spec
[20:34] <gethralkin> oh, mag spec
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[20:35] <gethralkin> ok I consent. but I didn't need mag spec bc the measurement has already been eestablished. my project was only to use the previous data to compare with my datasets
[20:36] <gethralkin> (previously established data, that is)
[20:37] <Vaizki> i need a spot of whiskey to digest something this heavy
[20:37] <Vaizki> green spot will do...
[20:37] <gethralkin> LOL! Me too. This was my second year university undergrad research
[20:39] <gethralkin> breaking my brain having to remember everything. I was spot on with answers to the questions in front of the panel bc I was prepared back then. didn't expect to embark down this rabbit hole so soon again, lol
[20:39] <nick_> Yeah, I wouldn't base any further work on something you think you did in your second year.
[20:39] <gethralkin> funny.
[20:39] <gethralkin> it was peer reviewed.
[20:40] <gethralkin> by physics university professors.
[20:40] <gethralkin> I even got asked questions I /didn't/ expect to be asked...
[20:41] <gethralkin> and I was mentored by a PhD nuclear astrophysicist
[20:43] <nick_> I expect a lot of my undergrad students' work to be wrong, it's just the way it is when they don't know what they are doing and there isn't a big investment in making sure it is correct.
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[20:44] <gethralkin> Now, I do have to qualify this by saying that although I had his expertise in judging my experiment, he thinks I'm nuts for my idea to put it in space or on or near the moon.
[20:44] <gethralkin> that it would bew out of the realm of logistical possibility, etc. etc. ad infinitum
[20:44] <gethralkin> I just want to try.
[20:45] <nick_> I think you're kinda nuts for thinking you can significantly bend muons with an electric field over a short distance.
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[20:46] <gethralkin> heh, well I didn't expect to but I had to see if I could. and it was a big surprise to the board that I did. I got grant. it was nice.
[20:48] <gethralkin> Have the data and everything to prove it, but haven't gotten around to publishing it... I really need to... would liike to see another attempt from someone else.
[20:48] <nick_> Well, let's sanity check.
[20:48] <gethralkin> lol
[20:49] <gethralkin> don't put it in space!
[20:49] <nick_> Best case scenario you give it ~1MeV transverse momentum (I guess you give it a whole lot less), and it has 10 GeV vertical momentum.
[20:49] <nick_> So it goes from vertical to... basically vertical.
[20:49] <gethralkin> it depends depends on the polarity.
[20:50] <gethralkin> the issue I was faced with...
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[20:51] <gethralkin> was the size of the electrostatic guassian lens being about the same area (shadowing) the scintillator array.
[20:51] <gethralkin> so, in the end I didn't detect any deflection because any deflection could still pass through the field.
[20:52] <gethralkin> at that momentum
[20:52] <gethralkin> however, the collection of either polarity (the muons and their antiparticles) was what the results had to be based on.
[20:53] <nick_> Or you didn't detect any deflection because there wasn't any significant deflection.
[20:53] <gethralkin> yes.
[20:54] <nick_> I'd be interested to know what you actually did.
[20:54] <gethralkin> so since the collection of either polarity over norms was higher, I had to focus on that instead of deflection.
[20:54] <nick_> But how did you know the the charge?
[20:55] <gethralkin> oh, easy. I reversed the polarity of the lense
[20:55] <nick_> I assume really you just measured a flux through your detector?
[20:55] <nick_> But I don't think the lens did anything.
[20:55] <gethralkin> yes, as a spectrum
[20:56] <gethralkin> and yes the lens did. bc the difference was quite significant when the lens was off.
[20:57] <nick_> Probably because you screwed with the PMTs
[20:57] <nick_> Or something like that.
[20:57] <gethralkin> nope. my mentor made sure of that
[20:58] <jcoxon> no mention of balloons on stargazing live :(
[20:58] <daveake> That'll change
[20:59] <daveake> We heard that the plane might not be able to fly, in which case balloons are their only hope :p
[21:02] <gethralkin> What do you teach Nick? Or is it Dr. Nick?
[21:02] <nick_> I don't teach, I just do research.
[21:03] <nick_> Although I supervise student projects.
[21:03] <gethralkin> awesome, what kind of research?
[21:03] <gethralkin> and may I ask what university?
[21:03] <nick_> Oxford
[21:03] <gethralkin> cool\
[21:03] <edmoore> hi dr nick
[21:03] <daveake> :)
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[21:04] <nick_> Hi ed
[21:05] <edmoore> what's up?
[21:06] <nick_> Well, today I actually got started on using a microcontroller with an 80 MS/s ADC to try and classify signals from silicon photomultipliers.
[21:06] <nick_> And by started of course I mean I flashed some LEDs...
[21:06] <edmoore> of course
[21:07] <gethralkin> And Dr nick and I were also talking about how nuts my projects are. You'll think my last project is really nuts, too, lol. I design a theoretical volumetric pressure vessel to create a vertical column of supersaturation for optical cosmic ray verticle vector study.
[21:07] <nick_> But recently we built and deployed a 300 kg neutrino detector, now I need to worry about the read-out system for a 1.5 tonne detector.
[21:07] <gethralkin> oh wow
[21:07] <edmoore> i suspect my problems are bigger
[21:07] <edmoore> i'm fighing floating point support on chibios
[21:07] <edmoore> and no one is waiting for it to work patiently
[21:07] <nick_> Our current detector picks up a horrible amount of noise.
[21:08] <edmoore> except all of the european space agency
[21:08] <nick_> But we basically planned on re-using the same electronics :S
[21:08] <edmoore> calling constantly
[21:08] <edmoore> the entire rocket engine is not being fired until this wrinkle gets wrinkled out
[21:08] <gethralkin> what kind of noise? NORM?
[21:08] <edmoore> hence i am at work with a takeaway pizza and coke
[21:08] <gethralkin> or electrical interference?
[21:09] <nick_> So you can't just round to the nearest integer and hope the rocket goes the right way?
[21:09] <edmoore> funny how you see into my mind
[21:09] <nick_> We pick up two high-ish frequency sinusoids that are about the period of our signals and about twice the size of one photon detection.
[21:10] <edmoore> we might run this thing open-loop initially
[21:10] <myself> Just make the integers really big and pretend the decimals don't exist
[21:10] <edmoore> with careful maffs to stop /badness 10000
[21:10] <Vaizki> nick, LPC4370?
[21:10] <nick_> yes
[21:10] <nick_> So I'm starting playing with an LPC Link2
[21:10] <nick_> Or really two of them, one to debug the other.
[21:11] <Vaizki> I have one too but it's inside my airspy ;)
[21:12] <nick_> I've got a design ready for dumping the data from one or two channels into a circular buffer, and I'll trigger using the comparitors i the ADC circuit, but I need to work out how quickly I can identify the signals I want.
[21:12] <nick_> Also, I've yet to actually test that the dumping into a circular buffer works.
[21:12] <Vaizki> maybe check out airspy firmware also?
[21:12] <nick_> What is that?
[21:13] <edmoore> a little software-defined radio
[21:13] <Vaizki> a 10Msps SDR based on LPC4370
[21:13] <nick_> Cool
[21:13] <nick_> I'll take a look.
[21:13] <nick_> Is the code available?
[21:13] <Vaizki> prog herr makes it
[21:13] <Vaizki> yes
[21:14] <Vaizki> https://github.com/airspy/firmware
[21:15] <nick_> Thanks, I'll check it out.
[21:15] <prog> nick_: get an airspy. much better hardware than the lpc-link
[21:15] <nick_> I don't actually want it for a radio.
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[21:16] <prog> the ADC inputs are much cleaner
[21:16] <Vaizki> and there's a clock
[21:16] <nick_> Sure, but we'll make our own board soon.
[21:16] <prog> good luck
[21:16] <nick_> Since we need some specific circuitry to control our sensors and amplify the signals.
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[21:17] <nick_> The LPC Link is just for getting some basic tests done with a pulse generator.
[21:17] <Vaizki> why not FPGA then?
[21:17] <gethralkin> it's a neutrino detector that is getting signal interference
[21:17] <gethralkin> constructive or destructive?
[21:18] <nick_> Vaizki: I'm hoping this will be better for some small portable detectors.
[21:18] <nick_> Our large 300 channel system uses a handful of FPGAs instead.
[21:18] <jcoxon> night all, will be back on tomorrow for some eclipse tracking
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[21:18] <nick_> Also, just because I think it's fun enough that I could convince someone to give me some cash to develop it.
[21:19] <Vaizki> accepted ;)
[21:19] <Vaizki> check out red pitaya also
[21:19] <Vaizki> if you are bored
[21:20] <nick_> We're currently worrying about our 3000 channel system we need to build in the next year, so I'm not sure when I'll have time to be bored.
[21:20] <gethralkin> HAHA, always fun to root for cash! ;)
[21:20] <nick_> 3000 channels each spewing out ~Gbps.
[21:20] <nick_> That we need to get down to ~GB/day
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> nick_: microwave scope?
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:21] <nick_> ?
[21:22] <gethralkin> dr nick, you said 1.5 tonne detector, but you also said 300 kg? can you explain?
[21:22] <nick_> The one we just built was 300 kg
[21:22] <gethralkin> do you have a link to the project i could look at?
[21:22] <nick_> The one we're just about to build is 1.5 tonne.
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[21:22] <gethralkin> ah, nice. okay. so the 300 kg is having signal issues, not the 1.5er?
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[21:24] <nick_> I worry it'll be my job to make sure the 1.5 tonne version doesn't have issues.
[21:24] <nick_> And that it doesn't cost too much and is ready in a year.
[21:24] <gethralkin> may I have a link or is this proprietary stuff that is not public release material yet?
[21:25] <nick_> There's not much public stuff.
[21:25] <gethralkin> anything I could see that is?
[21:25] <nick_> https://www2.physics.ox.ac.uk/research/mars-project/solid is a fairly crap web page that we probably haven't udpated in years.
[21:26] <nick_> https://indico.in2p3.fr/event/10050/session/0/contribution/4/material/slides/0.pdf is a presentation I gave to a nuclear safeguards meeting a little before christmas
[21:27] <edmoore> [21:25] <nick_> There's not much public stuff.
[21:27] <edmoore> my life
[21:27] <infaddict> evening
[21:27] <edmoore> are you part of the So Solid Crew nick_ ?
[21:28] <nick_> YEah, it's going to screw me over soon since I need to start applying for a new job
[21:28] <nick_> edmoore: you're showing your age.
[21:28] <edmoore> 27!
[21:28] <edmoore> i was a wipper-snapper when SSC were a thing
[21:28] <nick_> me too
[21:29] <infaddict> I started off with a toothpaste box, then moved onto a tupperware box, then saw Geoff-G8DHE design and inspired (shamefully copied) to produce my own HabAmp and Dongle box: http://imgur.com/pVR6hM1
[21:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> They fit nicely!
[21:30] <infaddict> yep and those hammonds are so workable. drill and file so easily you can do almost anything!
[21:30] <infaddict> the newer HabAmp is a bit wider tho so I had to hacksaw off the side part with Upu's name on it (sure he wont mind!)
[21:31] <infaddict> otherwise it wouldn't rotate in the box to solder both sides
[21:31] <infaddict> just in the nick of time to try it out tomorrow
[21:33] <gethralkin> omg! being 42, I feel so old here!
[21:34] <gethralkin> thanks for the links. I am off to view. I'll be back another time with more crazy ideas, lol!
[21:34] <Laurenceb_> nick_: are you in aopp?
[21:34] #highaltitude: mode change '+o jonsowman' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
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[21:35] <Laurenceb_> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/projects:report_v4.pdf <- me :D
[21:35] <edmoore> 80msps puts my datalogging into perspective
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[21:36] <edmoore> thank god i don't need that much
[21:38] <Vaizki> I want a signalhound....
[21:40] <Vaizki> but I hear theres balloons tomorrow morning so I need to sleep
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[21:41] <Laurenceb_> ah no, particle stuff
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[21:42] <PetNoc> Evening @all
[21:43] <PetNoc> i am a new guy in HAB hobby
[21:43] <bertrik> hi PetNoc, I'm a lurker here :)
[21:43] <PetNoc> i found accidentally the python script used by Cambridge Uni to drive their spid alpha rotator
[21:44] <PetNoc> accidentally i have one too
[21:44] <PetNoc> looking for people using it
[21:45] <PetNoc> hi bertrik
[21:45] <nick_> Laurenceb_: no, particle physics
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> ah, I was a student there back in 08
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> when i first got into ballooning :D
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> but I never had much to do with particle :-/
[21:46] <nick_> I came to Oxford in 09/10
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> I work on medical kit now
[21:46] <nick_> I think
[21:46] <Laurenceb_> ah
[21:46] <edmoore> PetNoc, good luck
[21:46] <edmoore> that was my era
[21:46] <edmoore> forgotten all about it
[21:47] <edmoore> infact can you link to the script - does it say who wrote it?
[21:47] <nick_> I'll probably be here another 1.5 years then I need to go somewhere new.
[21:48] <PetNoc> edmoore, nope
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> hey nick_
[21:48] <Laurenceb_> heh I know the feeling
[21:48] <PetNoc> very few comments
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> long time no see
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> if I am not mistaken
[21:49] <edmoore> PetNoc, it would have been written in about 25 minutes one evening
[21:49] <edmoore> i probably wrote some of it
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> im working at a university spinout atm, but thinking of moving someplace else
[21:49] <edmoore> but like, i don't even know which version it is or whatever, if it's just floating like a ghost in some old server
[21:49] <edmoore> or it might be a brand new thing written since i left cam
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> im tempted to form my own startup working on workplace safety monitoring hardware
[21:49] <PetNoc> https://github.com/cuspaceflight/RadioFox
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> theres lots to be done in that area
[21:51] <PetNoc> link found at http://www.cusf.co.uk/autorotator/
[21:51] <edmoore> ok so that's 99% new
[21:51] <edmoore> the radiofox was a circuit which actually talked to the alphaspid
[21:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Well two of the contributors are in the User list
[21:51] <edmoore> that's in arduino-launguage
[21:51] <edmoore> that was written by iain
[21:51] <edmoore> he's graduated too but we now work together
[21:51] <edmoore> the pc-side interface is rewritten since i left
[21:51] <PetNoc> but the arduino part was for the GPS i think
[21:51] <edmoore> you can look at the commit logs to see jonsowman and adamgreig are involved
[21:51] <PetNoc> there is a code in python called interface
[21:52] <jonsowman> o/
[21:52] Action: edmoore passes buck gracefully
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[21:53] <edmoore> heh
[21:53] <edmoore> no
[21:53] <edmoore> actually
[21:53] <edmoore> i recognise interface.py
[21:53] <edmoore> fergus and I wrote that
[21:53] <edmoore> (callsign, lat,lng,alt) = urlopen('http://www.robertharrison.org/listen/lastpos.php?callsign=%s' % callsign_wanted).read().split(',')[:4]
[21:53] <edmoore> that dates it!
[21:53] <jonsowman> hah
[21:53] <jonsowman> yes I'm unsure of the current state
[21:53] <Babs__> he's well famous that guy
[21:54] <jonsowman> not even sure if that repo accurately represents current state
[21:54] <jonsowman> suspect not
[21:54] <edmoore> rob harrison?
[21:55] <jonsowman> oh so https://github.com/cuspaceflight/trackotron
[21:55] <PetNoc> so the robertharrison.org website was my first question
[21:55] <PetNoc> it seems to be obsolete now
[21:55] <edmoore> yes
[21:55] <PetNoc> there is another url hardcoded in the script
[21:56] <edmoore> what are you trying to do?
[21:56] <Babs__> exactomondo edmoore. we could reminisce about the time you were simply known as
[21:56] <Babs__> eroomde
[21:56] <edmoore> well i was edmoore for a few years before eroomde
[21:56] <edmoore> now back to edmoore
[21:56] <PetNoc> http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/habitat/_view/
[21:56] <jonsowman> PetNoc: ok so that is more up to date
[21:56] <Babs__> i personally miss the withering posts that eroomde would throw out from time to time
[21:56] <edmoore> i am coming up on a decade of hab now, you see. so it's time for another hobby
[21:56] <Babs__> we are entering the golden age of hab
[21:57] <jonsowman> the golden age of hab was about 2008-2010 (for me)
[21:57] <Babs__> leobodnar can put a tracker on a grain of dust, yet gaffer tape still solves 98% of all construction problems
[21:59] <PetNoc> i intend to use the script without the wx (or TK) interface and statically define my own coordinates and the baloon callsign as a parameter
[21:59] <edmoore> 2006-2010 for me
[21:59] <edmoore> haven't really done anything since
[21:59] <PetNoc> and make it drive spid rotator
[21:59] <edmoore> kinda peaked with the mars chute stuff and didn't really have the motivation to do much after that
[22:00] <Babs__> neil! run!
[22:00] <edmoore> but that period from saying 'well morse is tedious - why don;t we try this rtty thing?' to spacenear.us and the distributed listener and the predictor all being created and established was a nice one
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[22:02] Action: Laurenceb_ has been putting all his effort towards an epic project
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> thats forever in development hell...
[22:02] <PetNoc> a few more general questions if you do not mind
[22:02] <edmoore> go for it
[22:03] <PetNoc> from a simple math using distace to the launch site of 160 km and a altitude of a baloon of 20 km
[22:03] <PetNoc> it seems that i will have it less than 10 degree above horizon
[22:04] <PetNoc> would i still hear it from that distance using 6 element yagi for 70cm ?
[22:04] <Vaizki> yes
[22:05] <edmoore> yes
[22:05] <PetNoc> clearly enough to receive the SSDV ?
[22:05] <edmoore> yes
[22:05] <Vaizki> but sleep time for me
[22:05] <PetNoc> great
[22:06] <PetNoc> how long a baloon is operation after the launch ?
[22:06] <PetNoc> operational
[22:06] <edmoore> 2-3 hours?
[22:06] <edmoore> ish
[22:06] <edmoore> for an up-down flight
[22:06] <edmoore> floaters (rarer) can be weeks
[22:06] <PetNoc> thise that will be launched tomorrow for the eclipse ?
[22:06] <edmoore> not a floater
[22:07] <edmoore> actually i think fsphil is trying to float
[22:07] <edmoore> but there will be plenty of 2-3 hour ones
[22:07] <PetNoc> is the 2-3 hour limit related to the baloon itself or the battery and circuits onboard ?
[22:08] <fsphil> yea hoping to float it
[22:09] <fsphil> for about 24 hours
[22:09] <fsphil> I suspect it will be well out of range before it bursts
[22:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> 2-3 Hours is for the balloon, abtteries normally last longer ;-)
[22:12] <PetNoc> is there any info available in advance on the wind direction and speed on the float altitude of the balloon such that i can try predicting the float direction ?
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[22:12] <edmoore> yes
[22:12] <edmoore> we have also written some software that does that
[22:13] <PetNoc> ha
[22:13] <edmoore> http://predict.habhub.org/
[22:14] <PetNoc> ah, now i understand what this url is about :-)
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[22:17] <edmoore> it's for people who want husbands who are into balloons
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[22:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> Humm where has STREEK come from on the news page ? http://ukhas.org.uk/news:balloon_launches
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[22:26] <PetNoc> ok, thanks a lot all for the info
[22:28] Nick change: fl_0 -> fl_0|afk
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[23:42] <amell> `Just looking at the robert harrison website. Looks like james may has been to elsworth more times than many of you :)
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