highaltitude.log.20150313

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[08:00] <henryplumb> morning
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[08:06] <edmoore> good morning henryplumb
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[08:12] <jcoxon> good good morning edmoore
[08:13] <daveake> good morning jcoxon
[08:13] <edmoore> good good good morning jcoxon
[08:13] <jcoxon> daveake, dropped the ball
[08:14] <daveake> good good good good grief my eyes are blurry
[08:14] <edmoore> mine are a bit too
[08:14] <edmoore> i drove back quite late from cambridge last night
[08:14] <edmoore> fighting jetlag too
[08:15] <edmoore> kind of flirted with the kerb a couple of times
[08:15] <edmoore> not the best
[08:15] <edmoore> had a starbucks espresso and brownie on the m25 somewhere and the caffeine/sugar hit just about got me home
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[08:15] <jcoxon> know the feeling
[08:15] <daveake> you need a car with an alertness monitor
[08:16] <jcoxon> often don't really remember the last hour
[08:16] <edmoore> no because then it wouldn't turn on
[08:16] <daveake> lol
[08:17] <edmoore> the espresso did the trick
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[08:17] <edmoore> delhi belly still lingering too
[08:18] <edmoore> wish i could just be reset
[08:18] <edmoore> i want to get on with life
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[08:18] <jcoxon> if it hangs around for a while might be worth a visit to the GP
[08:19] <jcoxon> edmoore, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNQeB5OvFug
[08:19] <jcoxon> mwhahaha
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[08:22] <edmoore> jcoxon, nice
[08:22] <edmoore> jelly
[08:22] <edmoore> what was the occassion?
[08:22] <jcoxon> that was how we travelled to our 'cottage' in south africa
[08:22] <jcoxon> (my father has a share of a place)
[08:23] <jcoxon> basically a coxon a long time ago wrecked a ship of the SA coast and they found it about 10 years ago
[08:23] <jcoxon> so we were going to have a look
[08:24] <edmoore> nice
[08:24] <cm13g09> 3/win 21
[08:24] <cm13g09> fail
[08:25] <jcoxon> i flew the heli for a bit (not filmed) was fun, incredibly responsive
[08:26] <edmoore> i've never flown a heli
[08:26] <edmoore> sounds like fun
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[08:37] <henryplumb_> bloody internet explorer keeps crashing :(
[08:37] <henryplumb_> god i hate it
[08:38] <edmoore> have you not a choice to use something else?
[08:38] <henryplumb_> IE only on my work latop in the office
[08:39] <henryplumb_> *laptop
[08:39] <edmoore> maybe ask IT for something sensible
[08:39] <edmoore> or an IRC client
[08:39] <henryplumb_> haha
[08:39] <henryplumb_> i wish
[08:40] <henryplumb_> loads of the web stuff we use was designed to only work properly on IE for some reason so any other browser makes it unuseable anyway :(
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[08:40] <edmoore> lol
[08:41] <edmoore> i have never experienced not being able to use something on the web because i don't have IE
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[08:41] <edmoore> IE is usually what breaks things
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[08:41] <edmoore> i haven't used IE for maybe 12 years?
[08:41] <henryplumb_> yeah, that's usually the situation but they had a monkey make our web services i think lol
[08:41] <edmoore> don't recall ever having a problem
[08:41] <edmoore> do you work for a $MEGACORP?
[08:42] <henryplumb_> I work for BT
[08:42] <edmoore> ah
[08:43] <henryplumb_> lol
[08:43] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03INFCU1 after 0311 hours silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=INFCU1
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[09:15] <infaddict> morning all. TGIF ;-)
[09:16] <infaddict> Successful battery powered tracker test in the car this morning. Think I'm ready to push the button on a PCB order soon.
[09:18] Nick change: fl_0|afk -> fl_0
[09:19] <Vaizki> do you have gerblook pics?
[09:19] <infaddict> i have Eagle files at the moment. Just deciding on final routing (as a noob i am using autoroute).
[09:19] <infaddict> Its very simple so think autorouting is fine
[09:20] <infaddict> as i'm totally new to PCB's would like a review of my board if people have some time. Probably be ready to post up some pics tonight.
[09:21] <Vaizki> nooo :)
[09:21] <Vaizki> don't autoroute
[09:21] <Vaizki> if I didn't have to, you don't have to either :)
[09:22] <infaddict> what are pros/cons of each approach? i might make more mistakes than mr. auto ;-)
[09:23] <Vaizki> validation will catch all mistakes like that
[09:23] <Vaizki> pros are satisfaction and beauty :)
[09:24] <Vaizki> but you are basically making a "motherboard" for a 3.3V mini pro right?
[09:25] <infaddict> yes so 3.3v mini pro, 2x temp sensors (1 on board, 1 off board connector), ntx2b, sd card, battery connector and a SMA connector.
[09:25] <infaddict> oh and gps of course
[09:25] <infaddict> fits nicely in less than 5x5cm board
[09:28] <infaddict> I'm learning Eagle as I go along, so will give manual routing a try. managed to get ground plane done and a "restrict" area for my GPS antenna.
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[09:36] <Vaizki> what's a restrict area..
[09:36] <UpuWork> autorouting is never fine infaddict
[09:36] <Vaizki> is it a "no solder mask" area?
[09:37] <infaddict> it prevents any copper (e.g. plane) and any routes or anything on it
[09:37] <infaddict> ok UpuWork thx ;-)
[09:37] <UpuWork> especially not for the boards we do as it has no concept of RF
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[09:40] <infaddict> problem is neither do i so likely to make similar errors
[09:40] <infaddict> so what do i need to do RF rise apart from a wider trace for the signal and create coax like situation with vias?
[09:40] <UpuWork> lets have a look
[09:40] <UpuWork> stick it on gerblook
[09:42] <Vaizki> well if he hasn't routed it yet..
[09:45] <LunarWork> hello
[09:45] <edmoore> avoid 90 degree bends
[09:45] <edmoore> try and keep the rf traces short and away from other stuff
[09:45] <edmoore> have them running over solid grounds on the other side
[09:45] <edmoore> start with that advice and when you have a first pass at a layout we can dive in
[09:49] <infaddict> ok guys thanks. will work on manual routing and dropbox it so you can all laugh at me ;-)
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[09:52] <Vaizki> just put out the gerber files and stick them through gerblook, it will give easy to view pics
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[11:03] <henryplumb_> anybody used http://balloonhelium.co.uk/main/pricing for helium before?
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[11:08] <craag> henryplumb_: Yes
[11:09] <craag> Got their X-small, picked up from a local depot. No complaints.
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[11:12] <infaddict> craag: what filling kit/valve did it come with?
[11:13] <storm_work> on the topic of getting gas: I recently learned about a local club of people flying manned gas (hydrogen) balloons, they have permission to tap into a gas pipeline going by their airflied, I will be able to fill my balloon for free and launch from their side, maybe you have something similar nearby...
[11:13] <craag> infaddict: I select the latex filling kit, it came with a wide conical nozzle, with a smaller narrow conical bit on the end. (Really wish I'd taken a photo)
[11:13] <craag> Narrow conical bit fitted a bit of pico-fill tubing I had, perfectly.
[11:13] <craag> hosepipe diameter would be harder to fit
[11:14] <infaddict> thx craag and you can keep it for 30 days it seems, although likely much less
[11:14] <craag> Yes, the cylinder is a 30 day load
[11:14] <craag> *loan
[11:14] <mattbrejza> its a boc fitting though?
[11:14] <craag> mattbrejza: on the tank - i assume so
[11:14] <mattbrejza> goooood......
[11:14] <craag> Although I don't have enough experience to say!
[11:14] <craag> twas a boc tank
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[11:15] <mattbrejza> im sure gaffa tape otherwise :P
[11:15] <craag> :D
[11:15] <cambazz> hello
[11:15] <craag> Will get photos of it - have had lots of people ask.
[11:16] <cambazz> i just received rm98w s in the mail. actually, anarduino coupled with rfm98w, and its got 64mbit mem, and rtc as well.
[11:16] <cambazz> compared to moteinos those are very well designed
[11:16] <mattbrejza> http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mfb2g09/ph_inflator.pdf infaddict
[11:17] <craag> Ok the one I got wa a universal then :S
[11:17] <craag> other one looks a lot more hosepipe friendly :)
[11:18] <craag> paperwork says 'latex filler kit' .... oh well
[11:18] <mattbrejza> http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=164.42,-15.97,1275 bit windy thre
[11:21] <henryplumb_> right, cheers guys. think i might get from there as they have a depo 6 miles from me
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[11:22] <henryplumb_> planning my launch soon
[11:22] <Babs____> Planning my lunch soon
[11:22] <henryplumb_> that too
[11:22] <Babs____> Arf
[11:22] <fsphil> don't mix them up
[11:22] <Babs____> Morning fsphil
[11:23] <Vaizki> go to a cheap seafood place for an afternoon lunch launch
[11:23] <henryplumb_> next month is my target, getting my CAA form done and finished building payload now i think
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[12:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HENHAB_TEST_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HENHAB_TEST_chase
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[13:22] <Babs____> Prepping for programming through icsp - if my board is running on 3v, presumably I have to watch for programming through an external board like an arduino uno running at 5v - is there a more elegant solution?
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[13:44] <fsphil> my programmer (an olimex one) senses the voltage through the vcc pin on the iscp header, or can be setup to provide it
[13:44] <fsphil> I don't know how common that is
[13:45] <Babs____> I'm a bit confused by it all
[13:45] <craag> The proper icsp devices will autodetect, the uno won't have a way of doing that.
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[13:46] <Babs____> I have an ftdi breakout from sparkfun which I am using to program a dip version
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[13:46] <craag> You could put a 1K in series with each of the icsp lines and rely on the protection diodes to pull it down I guess.
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[13:46] <Babs____> But it isn't through the miso mosi pins
[13:47] <craag> Now you've got me confused :P
[13:48] <craag> Describe the setup
[13:48] <Babs____> 2 secs
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[13:51] <Babs____> So this is how the breadboard version is working
[13:51] <Babs____> http://flic.kr/p/qDNtXG
[13:51] <Babs____> Obvs programming through the pins on the upper left of the atmega
[13:52] <Babs____> For the version I have that I am doing in eagle I am doing everything through the icsp header
[13:52] <craag> Ok, so you're programming with the ftdi currently.
[13:52] <craag> I see
[13:52] <Babs____> Boot loader, programming etc
[13:52] <craag> I'd recommened getting a proper AVR ISP
[13:53] <craag> http://www.atmel.com/tools/avrispmkii.aspx
[13:53] <Babs____> And that does the same thing , just through a different interface basically?
[13:54] <craag> The ftdi relies on the arduino bootloader when the avr starts up, to load the firmware through the uart.
[13:54] <craag> The ISP talks directly to the flash and fuses.
[13:54] <Babs____> Can I use the ISp through the arduino ide still?
[13:54] <craag> yep
[13:55] <craag> it also autodetects target voltage
[13:55] <Babs____> Ok handy
[13:55] <craag> and will tell you which pins are open/shorted if there's a fault
[13:55] <craag> and flashes the red led nice and fast if you plug it in the wrong way round :P
[13:56] <Babs____> Anything which minimises my own incompetence is a good thing
[13:56] <Babs____> Thanks craag, v helpful
[13:56] <craag> There are olimex clones - but they have driver issues on recent versions of windows I found - and aren't as verbose with error messages.
[13:56] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You could try this as a programming device ;-) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/12/usb_drive_fry_your_laptop/
[13:56] <UpuWork> I've used Olimex
[13:56] <UpuWork> like them
[13:57] <craag> They do work, but I had a lot of driver issues with mine that just disappeared when I got the atmel one.
[13:59] <Babs____> Ok thanks guys - they are just plug in, no config?
[13:59] <Babs____> (Windows 8, Linux etc)
[13:59] <craag> Linux needs a quick udev rule to allow running it as normal user iirc, or you can just run the ide as root :P
[14:00] <craag> Windows I was in such a mess after the olimex I can't remember - probably will need some kind of drivers.
[14:03] <db_g6gzh> Olimex AVR-ISP500 appears as /dev/ttyACM0 on Linux so just need to be in the right group (dialout on Debian) to access it
[14:04] <UpuWork> thats the one I use
[14:04] Nick change: db_g6gzh -> dbrooke
[14:05] <Babs____> I though Linux was a peanuts character until last year , just use standard windows but wanted to check on complexity. Thanks everyone.
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[16:01] <chrisstubbs> Upu omg that apple developer video :')
[16:01] <UpuWork> yup :)
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[16:09] <chrisstubbs> In other news, Spirit Circuits are shutting down "go naked" :(
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[16:11] <mattbrejza> i thought they did that ages ago
[16:11] <mattbrejza> or perhaps they just stopped the uni using it
[16:11] <chrisstubbs> I had a board from them last month, got an email about it closing down today
[16:12] <mattbrejza> oh
[16:13] <storm_work> oshpark is great, but shipping from the USA always takes it time
[16:18] <mattbrejza> are they better than the various chinese ones?
[16:19] <adamgreig> more expensive and less choice in colour etc :/
[16:19] <adamgreig> last i looked
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[16:20] <UpuWork> yeah that thought purple :)
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[16:21] <storm_work> well on small areas the price is good, and the quality is amazing (http://hackaday.com/2012/09/11/bed-of-nails-and-accuracy-in-pcb-manufacturing/)
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[16:21] <storm_work> but yeah the purple is not for everybody ;)
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[16:22] <UpuWork> Give Hackvana a go
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[16:23] <storm_work> UpuWork: a couple of people aready mentioned Hackvana, I will do
[16:23] <UpuWork> Well I've used them for a few years
[16:23] <UpuWork> drills and via placement are good, silk screen can occasionally be poor but he seems to have sorted that out
[16:24] <UpuWork> and he has lots of options board size, colour, finish etc
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[16:53] <fsphil> somewhat ot - anyone successfully used a 5ghz wifi dongle on the pi with raspbian?
[16:57] <fsphil> or linux in general
[16:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 030x06 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=0x06
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[17:03] <fsphil> oh looks like the TL-WDN3200 is supported in newer kernels
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[17:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 032e0pnp
[17:28] <SpacenearUS> _chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=2e0pnp%0A%20%20%20%20_chase
[17:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[17:57] <Flerb_> I was having a look at information theory again
[17:58] <Flerb_> I'm still stumped by logarithms
[17:58] <Guest57654> Does anyone have any useful links for transmitter/receiver coding?
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[18:30] <Guest57654> Does anyone have any useful links for transmitter/receiver coding?
[18:34] <edmoore> Guest57654, coding in the software sense or coding in the line-coding/error correction sense?
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[18:37] <Guest57654> just help with getting to grips with the software. receiver mostly
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[18:56] <kent_hab> the dl-fldigi keeps saying my checksum is bad , is there a way of fixing this
[18:56] <kent_hab> im getting all of the information i need
[18:56] <fsphil> can you paste one example string
[18:58] <kent_hab> it should come out as : $$$$ jh575-HAB, time, altitude, lat, long, speed $$ checksum
[18:58] <fsphil> can you paste one that is failing though
[18:58] <kent_hab> $$$$ JH575-HAB,18:55:14:,51.355309,0.567380,00099,$$*77A2
[18:59] <fsphil> ok, a normal ukhas string is $$callsign,time,latitude,longitude,altitude*1234
[18:59] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[19:00] <fsphil> the checksum covers everything between but not including the $$ and *
[19:00] <kent_hab> okay, do i have to follow these
[19:00] <kent_hab> oh i see
[19:00] <kent_hab> okay
[19:00] <fsphil> you don't have to, but if you're using dl-fldigi and the habhub tracker then yes
[19:01] <kent_hab> okay
[19:01] <kent_hab> so i just change call sign and the * and it should be okay? :)
[19:01] <fsphil> the space before the callsign is unusual
[19:01] <fsphil> the time has a trailing :
[19:02] <fsphil> and the ,$$ needs to go
[19:02] <kent_hab> okay thank you
[19:02] <fsphil> just follow that wiki page and you'll be fine
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[19:02] <fsphil> remember to make a payload document when you want to test getting it on the map
[19:03] <fsphil> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[19:03] <kent_hab> i just created one 5 minutes ago :)
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[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[19:04] <fsphil> howdy LL
[19:06] <kent_hab> hi!#
[19:12] <kent_hab> fsphil, when you said *1234 did you mean to include 1234 or is that just the checksum
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[19:12] <kent_hab> $$$$HABUni,19:11:01,51.35581,0.56740,00109*FAA8, failed for me
[19:16] <fsphil> thecksum
[19:16] <fsphil> er
[19:16] <fsphil> checksum
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[19:18] <fsphil> yea FAA8 is definitly wrong
[19:18] <fsphil> for that string it should be 05EF
[19:19] <fsphil> how are you generating it?
[19:19] <kent_hab> yeah for some reason it doesnt decode the new string very well
[19:19] <kent_hab> not sure why when my old one worked perfectly fine and all i did was remove dollar signs and spaces
[19:22] <chrisstubbs> you probably need to change your checksum calculating code to compensate for the removed characters
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[19:23] <fsphil> ideally it should count the $'s
[19:24] <fsphil> I'm not able to get FAA8 with the usual faults
[19:25] <kent_hab> hmm
[19:25] <kent_hab> im not really sure what im doing here haha
[19:26] <fsphil> might be worth using pastebin to share the code that generates it
[19:26] <fsphil> someone may spot the error
[19:26] <fsphil> there are also some examples for generating the crc on that wiki page
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[19:58] <kent_hab> http://notaminfo.com/ is this reliable, i cant find my notam on this and my launch is next thursday ;(
[19:58] <Upu> have you got your NOTAM yet ?
[19:59] <kent_hab> i sent the application on 1st feb but havnt got anything back
[19:59] <Upu> :)
[19:59] <Upu> So David Miller who issues the NOTAM's
[19:59] <Upu> is a bit of a last minute charlie
[19:59] <kent_hab> oooh thats fine
[19:59] <Upu> so I'd expect it about 16:59 on Wednesday
[20:00] <kent_hab> id rather that - i thought it got lost in the mail
[20:00] <Upu> however do chase it first thing Wed
[20:00] <Upu> it will come via mail
[20:00] <kent_hab> okay, thank you
[20:00] <Upu> but until you have that PDF you're not good to fly
[20:00] <Upu> and yes it should appear NOTAM info
[20:00] <Upu> I suspect I know the answer but where are you launching from ?
[20:01] <kent_hab> i'll give them a call wednesday morning, does david have a direct number or shall i follow the number given on the application form ?
[20:01] <kent_hab> banbury
[20:01] <kent_hab> i know, im sorry for the kent name hahah
[20:01] <Upu> David Miller
[20:01] <Upu> Airspace Specialist 5
[20:01] <Upu> 020 7453 6585
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[20:01] <kent_hab> thank you upu :)
[20:02] <kent_hab> meanwhile i'll try fix this checksum
[20:02] <chrisstubbs> kent_hab, post the code up here if you get stuck
[20:03] <kent_hab> fldigi software gives me all the data i need but when i change it into the string required for habhub tracker it doesnt work !
[20:03] <kent_hab> and im not too experienced with it ive pretty much constructed it all from various online sources
[20:03] <daveake> Your launch is this coming thursday?
[20:04] <kent_hab> it was supposed to be, i applied for 19th and 21st
[20:04] <daveake> brave
[20:04] <kent_hab> why brave? :)
[20:04] <daveake> you need to get a decent amount of testing in once your tracker is working
[20:04] <chrisstubbs> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing <<this
[20:04] <kent_hab> well
[20:04] <daveake> e.g. range, crossing meridians
[20:05] <kent_hab> it works perfectly when i do it on my own
[20:05] <daveake> practice your tracking skills
[20:05] <kent_hab> ive tested over 1km
[20:05] <daveake> ok that's 1 test done
[20:05] <kent_hab> but when i change it into the habhub string
[20:05] <kent_hab> it doesnt work
[20:05] <Upu> yeah you want to sort that out
[20:05] <kent_hab> andi have a gsm with it that texts me coords
[20:05] <Upu> assume that won't work
[20:05] <Upu> if it does bonus
[20:05] <kent_hab> roger that
[20:05] <daveake> this ^
[20:06] <Upu> but they don't have a great sucess rate
[20:06] <daveake> For every person who says "oh it's OK if my radio tracker doesn't work as I have a GSM backup2
[20:06] <daveake> there's a person with a lost payload
[20:07] <Upu> sorry for the negativity its just we see alot of this and we don't want anyone to loose their payload
[20:07] <gonzo_> and it's the same person
[20:08] <Vaizki> the curse of the gsm
[20:08] <kent_hab> hahah
[20:08] <kent_hab> okay thank you for the warnings :)
[20:08] <kent_hab> how accurate are the landing predictors ?
[20:08] <kent_hab> from your experience
[20:08] <Upu> depends really
[20:08] <gonzo_> see if there are any other experienced HABers near you. Someone may lend you a known tracker.
[20:09] <Upu> generally good enough to keep you away from cities/airports
[20:09] <daveake> on the day, better than accuracy in filling
[20:10] <Upu> get an hourly setup like this : predict.habhub.org/hourly/cambridge
[20:10] <Vaizki> kent_hab: I'm going to repeat the kind offer put forth by others, get your code on pastebin and let's take a look...
[20:10] <Upu> if its changing wildly over the 7 day period accuracy maybe less
[20:10] <Vaizki> with less than a week to go you should be way past debugging code:P
[20:10] <kent_hab> i was originally going to just try it by myself
[20:11] <kent_hab> okay one second i'll put it into pastebin
[20:11] <kent_hab> it features sensors etc though
[20:11] <kent_hab> not just gsm / gps
[20:11] <Vaizki> I meant the checksum code
[20:11] <Vaizki> if that's what you're having trouble with
[20:11] <kent_hab> okay - one moment :)
[20:13] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: 434 MHz #CanSat Competition in York http://t.co/adjPuZ9MIC #amsat #hamradio #hamr #ukhas
[20:15] <kent_hab> Vaizki
[20:16] <kent_hab> http://pastebin.com/UiUaAi1U - i included the code needed i believe
[20:16] <Upu> Using a ublox ?
[20:17] <kent_hab> yes i am
[20:17] <Upu> do you put it in flight mode ?
[20:17] <kent_hab> i did yes
[20:17] <Upu> k
[20:17] <kent_hab> oh also, the code i have just listen i have already made the changes with the checksum end
[20:17] <kent_hab> did you see the chat earlier?
[20:18] <daveake> That will fail at or above 32768 metres
[20:18] <daveake> Remove the space between $$ and the payload ID
[20:19] <kent_hab> i did, and changed the checksum
[20:19] <daveake> Remove strcat(test,"$$"); //Final dollar sign for transmission reocgnition.
[20:20] <daveake> Also you need a "*" before the checksum
[20:20] <kent_hab> removed payload id and put callsign, removed trailing : after time, removed final dollar signs aswell
[20:20] <daveake> So the code you have isn't what you uploaded?
[20:20] <kent_hab> when i made the changes it didnt work so i reverted back and came here
[20:20] <kent_hab> i'll re-do them for you
[20:21] <daveake> it helps if we see the same code you're using
[20:21] <kent_hab> sprintf(buffer, "*%04X\n", gps_CRC16_checksum(test)); - is that fine for the ending
[20:21] <Vaizki> and instead of a gazillion strcat() calls, try to do it all in one sprintf for example
[20:21] <Vaizki> or as few as possible
[20:22] <kent_hab> im fairly new and not very experienced sorry for the mess
[20:22] <daveake> indeed
[20:22] <daveake> I'd expect 1 strcat, just for the checksum
[20:22] <Vaizki> I don't have even one...
[20:22] <Vaizki> strcat is evil. but yes one is ok :)
[20:24] <kent_hab> http://pastebin.com/6Z5mQz5k so this is with the changes made
[20:24] <kent_hab> im not sure what to do for the strcat
[20:24] <Vaizki> ok strcat() with empty string is just mad :)
[20:25] <Vaizki> your checksum problem is that $$ are part of variable test
[20:25] <Vaizki> from which the checksum is calculated
[20:26] <kent_hab> where should i put the && and you want me to remove strcats?
[20:26] <kent_hab> i appreciate this help :)
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[20:27] <Vaizki> well strcat(test,""); does exactly nothing
[20:27] <Vaizki> it's like saying i = i + 0;
[20:29] <kent_hab> okay
[20:29] <kent_hab> 1 strcat down
[20:32] <Vaizki> I have no idea why your lat/long are floats.. I would just take them as strings or fixed point integers from the GPS..
[20:32] <Vaizki> but I get the feeling you have no idea either?
[20:34] <kent_hab> no i dont
[20:34] <kent_hab> i looked at alot of examples online
[20:35] <Vaizki> for a quick fix of the checksum, replace gps_CRC16_checksum(test) with gps_CRC16_checksum(&test[2])
[20:35] <Vaizki> that should get your checksum calculated from the string after the $$ in the beginning
[20:36] <Vaizki> some people would write that as gps_CRC16_checksum(test+2) and that should work as well :)
[20:36] <Vaizki> I'm assuming here that gps_CRC1_checksum() function calculates over the whole string
[20:36] <kent_hab> okay thank you :) sorry for the fuss
[20:36] <kent_hab> i'll upload and test it
[20:36] <Upu> I wouldn't keep apologising we'd rather it worked :)
[20:37] <Vaizki> if you combine code from more than one example you really have to understand what's happening in both
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[20:40] <Vaizki> doesn't hurt if you copy paste from a single example either...
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[20:44] <kent_hab> $$HABUni,20:44:14,51.355381,0.567420,00103 *0358
[20:44] <kent_hab> still get a bad checksum , is it the space before the * ?
[20:45] <Upu> no
[20:45] <Upu> you should only be doing the check sum on "HABUni,20:44:14,51.355381,0.567420,00103"
[20:45] <kent_hab> i used the gps_CRC16_checksum(&test[2]) for the $$
[20:45] <Upu> loose the space
[20:46] <Upu> could do with a sequence number in there too
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[20:47] <daveake> And a minus sign
[20:47] <daveake> 51.355381,0.567420 isn't Banbury
[20:49] <kent_hab> im not in banbury at the moment
[20:49] <daveake> ah
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[20:49] <fsphil> good enough reason :)
[20:49] <daveake> sounds reasonable :)
[20:49] <kent_hab> the coordinates are right !
[20:49] <kent_hab> just the poor check sum
[20:49] <Vaizki> well then we know where you are
[20:50] <fsphil> lack of a negative is a common error
[20:50] <daveake> yeah I was working from dodgy information :p
[20:50] <fsphil> especially when between -1 and 0 degrees
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[20:50] <Upu> !wiki common coding errors
[20:50] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Wiki page 03common_coding_errors_payload_testing - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing
[20:50] <fsphil> we've made all the errors so you don't have to :)
[20:50] <daveake> lol
[20:51] <kent_hab> wait whats the error
[20:51] <fsphil> I haven't seen your code so there might not be an error
[20:51] <kent_hab> excellent
[20:51] <fsphil> but check that page anyway
[20:51] <kent_hab> i think everyone got mixed up with the coordinates and my launch location
[20:52] <daveake> Read the page assuming you've made all the mistakes, then prove to yourself that you haven't made any of them
[20:52] <pc1pcl> what's the current code as I guess the earlier pastebin link is now a bit out of date?
[20:53] <pc1pcl> (maybe also paste in the checksum function itself so we know if we can feed it the string with an offset of two or not?
[20:54] <kent_hab> http://pastebin.com/c26zdjbm the current code
[20:54] <pc1pcl> also http://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/info/crc-calculation.html is a quick online check to see what the calculated cksum should be.
[20:55] <fsphil> good page that
[20:55] <pc1pcl> on the code, probably want to start off with setting the character array to a 0 length string,
[20:55] <fsphil> CRC-CCITT (0xFFFF) is the one you want
[20:55] <Vaizki> ah ok gps_CRC16_checksum() already skips over the 2 first characters
[20:55] <pc1pcl> test[0]='\0'; or something.
[20:56] <daveake> Right first problem, you can't strcat into a string that you haven't set to something yet
[20:56] <Vaizki> so the &test[2] is not needed
[20:56] <daveake> char test[100]; //Byte of 100 for string of data.
[20:56] <daveake> ^ does not define what is in "test"
[20:56] <daveake> then you strcat onto it
[20:56] <daveake> which could go very, very, wrong
[20:56] <Vaizki> right.. that might run amok into memory
[20:56] <pc1pcl> sane compiler will probably set it all to 0 so you can't snoop old memory BUT don't rely on that
[20:57] <daveake> might be lucky
[20:57] <daveake> might not
[20:57] <kent_hab> umm
[20:57] <daveake> fix it - use strcpy
[20:57] <pc1pcl> strNcpy
[20:57] <Vaizki> or combine it into the next sprintf
[20:57] <daveake> that
[20:57] <kent_hab> im rather lost
[20:57] <kent_hab> let me just catch up
[20:57] <daveake> strcat appends to a string
[20:58] <daveake> but you haven't put anything in the string yet
[20:58] <daveake> and you *cannot* rely on it having an empty string
[20:59] <kent_hab> ok
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[20:59] <pc1pcl> most important part is Vaizki's remark about not needing to do the skippin gof first two characters yourself, so the final call to the checksummer can just use "test" instead of "test+2" or "&test[2]"
[20:59] <kent_hab> it was originally test
[20:59] <kent_hab> shall i remove the &test 2 back to just testthan
[20:59] <pc1pcl> after that we can polish up the bufferoverflows waiting to happen.
[20:59] <pc1pcl> kent_hab: yes
[20:59] <Vaizki> yea go back to just test
[21:00] <pc1pcl> as fixed too many things in one go before.
[21:00] <kent_hab> ok done
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[21:00] <Vaizki> because the function you use for CRC skips the first two chars.. (the for-statement does not start with i=0 but i=2)
[21:00] <pc1pcl> That's why I asked to include the crc code, so we could confirm or refute teh assumption made by Vaizki earlier.
[21:01] <pc1pcl> so, check what the checksum comes out as now.
[21:01] <Vaizki> yea, I should have asked for it as well but at least I stated the assumption ;)
[21:01] <pc1pcl> Vaizki: yup, absolutely not blaming you ;)
[21:01] <kent_hab> YES
[21:01] <kent_hab> i got one
[21:01] <kent_hab> one moment
[21:02] <kent_hab> it worrrrrks
[21:02] <pc1pcl> ok if it is now the correct checkum, PLEASE don't say okthanksbai.
[21:02] <kent_hab> its alivvvveeee
[21:02] <kent_hab> CYA
[21:02] <Vaizki> :D
[21:02] <kent_hab> joking
[21:02] <Vaizki> he's already letting go of the balloon
[21:02] <pc1pcl> because we are OCD to fix the potential buffer overflow
[21:02] <kent_hab> hahaha
[21:02] <kent_hab> yes i dont think it will keep working
[21:02] <kent_hab> let me test a few maybe i got lucky
[21:02] <pc1pcl> it probably will work as is.
[21:03] <pc1pcl> as 100 is a pretty deep buffer.
[21:03] <pc1pcl> but, let's try and make it slightly more bullet proof ;)
[21:04] <kent_hab> yeah
[21:04] <kent_hab> its not perfect
[21:04] <kent_hab> i only got a few successful
[21:05] <pc1pcl> errors in the reception or bogus checksums?
[21:05] <kent_hab> errors in checksum it seems
[21:05] <kent_hab> i got like 2/6 correct
[21:06] <Vaizki> good enough to launch!
[21:06] <kent_hab> erm
[21:07] <Vaizki> oh wait it isn't
[21:07] <kent_hab> it only seems to work in offline ?
[21:07] <kent_hab> or is that coincidance
[21:08] <kent_hab> when i put it into online it is failing
[21:08] <kent_hab> 3$$HABUni,21:07:55,51.30,0.567490,00103*0C57
[21:09] <fsphil> just a coincidence
[21:09] <Vaizki> the leading 3 was there?
[21:09] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI_SKY_PLUS after 033 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI_SKY_PLUS
[21:09] <kent_hab> yeah every now and then i get leading numbers or letters
[21:09] <kent_hab> is that normal
[21:09] <Vaizki> I'm guessing you didn't do what daveake told you to
[21:10] <pc1pcl> that might be cause dby not setting test[0]='\0'
[21:10] <pc1pcl> or buffer[0]
[21:10] <Vaizki> which is to replace the first strcat() with strcpy()
[21:10] <kent_hab> i got lost then changed the test2
[21:10] <Vaizki> test and buffer will contain random bytes
[21:10] <Vaizki> so you can't strcat() to them
[21:10] <pc1pcl> so let's start with a nice empty string instead.
[21:11] <pc1pcl> strcat is 'short' for string concatenate.
[21:11] <kent_hab> strcpy(test,"$$HABUni,"); i changed first one now
[21:11] <pc1pcl> but that is usually just used when you already have something to concatenate to.
[21:12] <pc1pcl> you can start with a fresh string in a few ways, so you might find 5 different ways in online examples.
[21:12] <pc1pcl> so yes, that should make things better.
[21:13] <pc1pcl> so let that run for a bit to see if it has no more spurious crap at the start messing with your checksums
[21:13] <kent_hab> the strcpy does seem to have improve it
[21:13] <kent_hab> im not seeing any at the start
[21:14] <pc1pcl> personally, actually I prefer a few more characters before the real $$, we can always put those before at the very end after the checksum is already calculated and appended.
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[21:14] <kent_hab> the strcpy has worked :) and i did originally have four $
[21:14] <Vaizki> you can just send loads of stop bits by sending \0
[21:15] <pc1pcl> yes, those four would mess up the checksum as it is too stupid to just skip all leading $s just skips a fixed 2 characters.
[21:15] <kent_hab> as soon as i turn it online
[21:15] <kent_hab> it missess something or the string isnt complete
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[21:16] <pc1pcl> time to check logtail
[21:17] <kent_hab> what is logtaio
[21:17] <kent_hab> logtail*
[21:17] <kent_hab> im getting a few correct strings
[21:17] <Vaizki> http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[21:17] <kent_hab> but it definatly is working better offline
[21:17] <pc1pcl> [2015-03-13 21:16:47,670] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: No configuration doc for 'HABUni' found [2015-03-13 21:16:47,565] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$HABUni,21:16:29,51.355282,0.5674,00110*8129\n' (c2afa4b93e4615fcfc4e795badf9c52319b5c4afe666369f97e89cd13e75eb19) from HABUni [2015-03-13 21:16:45,801] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[21:18] <pc1pcl> probably getting some feedback from the server that is displayed back to you making you think it is 'wrong'
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[21:19] <pc1pcl> (which it arguably is, as need to add a payload document I think)
[21:19] <Vaizki> but I would suggest adding the sentence counter to your string
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[21:20] <kent_hab> i have to request the document be approved , i have yet to do that
[21:20] <Vaizki> no you don't
[21:20] <pc1pcl> so, few options to work on: a) get a first basic 'payload doc' in. (needs no approval, a flight do would)
[21:20] <Vaizki> you can make payload docs with the wizard
[21:20] <Vaizki> then test with dl-fldigi
[21:20] <pc1pcl> b) improve the string a bit so it has an increasing counter.
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[21:21] <pc1pcl> c) do some lenght checks and other nonfunctional (but important) improvements to the code
[21:21] <kent_hab> i made one called Kent_HAB
[21:21] <kent_hab> earlier
[21:21] <pc1pcl> might want to do a) first then b) and a) all over again.
[21:21] <pc1pcl> earlier one probably has a subtle mistake so it doesn't match your current format to that definition.
[21:22] <kent_hab> oooh ok
[21:22] <pc1pcl> probably will need to make one or two versions more anyway until you get it just right.
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[21:22] <kent_hab> i have to remake dont i ? i cant edit
[21:22] <pc1pcl> Not a huge issue.
[21:22] <pc1pcl> 'edit' just makes a new copy, I thnk the keep your mistakes forever so they can be used aginst you later.
[21:23] <Vaizki> well Kent_HAB has time, altitude, latitude, longitude, speed
[21:23] <Vaizki> your current one has time, latitude, longitude, altitudem checksum
[21:23] <Vaizki> so it doesn't match
[21:23] <kent_hab> oh yes
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[21:23] <kent_hab> ive lost the link to it
[21:24] <Vaizki> just make a new one with the wizard
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[21:24] <pc1pcl> can just fix the code to make it match again, butprobably want to add some more stuff later too, like the sequence number.
[21:24] <Vaizki> and paste the string into it
[21:24] <Vaizki> you can even save it under the same name
[21:24] <pc1pcl> so no problem to redo it with the wizard and get some practice.
[21:24] <kent_hab> okay
[21:24] <kent_hab> editing now
[21:24] <Vaizki> habitat will use the latest version
[21:24] <Vaizki> use the wizard, don't edit
[21:25] <pc1pcl> Vaizki: is that true, or will it try to match them all and take the one that fits? (doesn't really matter anyway...)
[21:25] <daveake> latest
[21:25] <Vaizki> I was told it uses the latest one
[21:25] <Vaizki> and it would matter for example if you have different scaling but otherwise the same def
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[21:28] <pc1pcl> yeah, I meant the answer would jus tbe confusing and not pertinent to the current discussion ;)
[21:28] <kent_hab> umm
[21:28] <kent_hab> i think i just edited original instead of making new one vaizki
[21:29] <pc1pcl> just easier to use the Wizard option, but if it is corrected now, bonus.
[21:29] <kent_hab> im not entirely sure if it was
[21:29] <Vaizki> well you can't edit old ones, you are either making a fresh one or copying the old one
[21:29] <Babs_> Evening all - is there any way to view just a single layer in eagle without going into layer settings, turning them all of and then turning them all back on again singly?
[21:29] <pc1pcl> Test again.
[21:30] <kent_hab> ah yes theres two of Kent_HAB in the database browser
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[21:30] <kent_hab> but called the same so its just the latest ?
[21:30] <Vaizki> it's not ok, it's missing checksum
[21:30] <Vaizki> use the wizard luke :)
[21:30] <Vaizki> it will look at your example string and find the checksum, figure out the algorithm etc
[21:31] <Vaizki> it's magical and wonderful
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[21:31] <pc1pcl> normally I avoid things called wizard like the plague, but in this case it is the better option.
[21:31] <kent_hab> it has to be a string that worked?
[21:31] <Vaizki> of course
[21:31] <Vaizki> it will tell you if the checksum is wrong
[21:32] <pc1pcl> not really, as in you can probably use the ones 'rejected' earlier in 'online mode'
[21:32] <pc1pcl> as those were rejected becuase of not matching the other format.
[21:32] <Vaizki> yea sure you can use an earlier string that worked offline
[21:32] <kent_hab> what is "Scale this"?
[21:32] <pc1pcl> advanced option
[21:32] <pc1pcl> i.e. forget about it for now.
[21:32] <Vaizki> it's for x10 or /10 ops
[21:33] <happil> Hello everybody! I apologise to take up your chat with "advertising", but if I would like to share with you my HAB project. I'm 15 years old, from the UK, looking to secure funding on Kickstarter for my balloon to record HD footage from two cameras in near space, while launching backers' messages from our payload. To find out more, you can see our campaign: http://kck.st/1M1TldL
[21:33] <pc1pcl> but can be useful if your string has speed in furlongs per forthnight.
[21:33] <Vaizki> like you send 1000 when you really mean 10.00 so you need to scale it
[21:33] <chrisstubbs> Babs_, you can set up your own key combos to run scripts
[21:33] <chrisstubbs> and cli commands
[21:33] <Upu> well at least your goal is realistic happil
[21:33] <Upu> but pls
[21:34] <Upu> use a radio tracker
[21:34] <happil> Really?
[21:34] <happil> Concerning the funding.
[21:35] <kent_hab> what format shall i use for no lock
[21:35] <happil> One person has told me it's too much, but I added the equipment costs, added 10% for fees and such and rounded to the nearest 100.
[21:35] <kent_hab> i'll donate happil, i get paid next monday
[21:35] <Upu> happil I will sponsor you a radio and a suitable GPS if you take the time and effort to make one
[21:36] <Vaizki> wow..
[21:36] <happil> Upu: I appreciate that, however we're already talking with SPOT about a sponsorship
[21:36] <Vaizki> well I have used a SPOT
[21:36] <Upu> trouble is (Sacha?) they don't work above 16km or so
[21:36] <happil> and kent, thank you so much, I really I appreciate anything
[21:36] <Babs_> thanks chrisstubbs, will look into it
[21:36] <Upu> which means you have no idea where your balloon is
[21:36] <Upu> for most of the flight
[21:36] <Upu> which is
[21:36] <Upu> rubbish
[21:37] <Vaizki> and it will take so long to reacquire on the way down it might not send out a position until it's in a ditch
[21:37] <happil> Upu: Yes, Sacha :), and I completely understand that. They regain lock and I don't need to know where it is for the entire duration of the flight. The SPOT will be placed so that it never lands upside down, and we also have a cheapie GSM (cellphone) tracker.
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[21:37] <Upu> so listen welcome to #ukhas here you will get a serious amount of assistance
[21:37] <pc1pcl> Upu's radio will not "cut out when it reaches its maximum altitude "
[21:37] <Vaizki> never say never
[21:37] <pc1pcl> at least, not until you reach a much more maximal altitude..
[21:37] <Upu> put the effort in
[21:38] <Upu> it will be way more fun than sticking a spot tracker in a box which may or may not work
[21:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SIRIUS - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SIRIUS
[21:39] <happil> Being quite honest, I'm doing my A levels this year. I can't guarantee that I can finish any radio tracker while doing them.
[21:39] <Upu> up to you
[21:39] <Upu> offer is there
[21:39] <happil> I took all of this into account (I've looked into several resources) and picked SPOT with a GSM backup to balance time, cost and reliability
[21:39] <happil> I really appreciate that Upu but I just wouldn't be able to do it.
[21:39] <daveake> What you get there is lots of cost and little reliability
[21:39] <jcoxon> cost?
[21:40] <Upu> ok happil I'll tell you want
[21:40] <Upu> what
[21:40] <pc1pcl> hmm it's more likely for GSM 'backp' to fail before the spot.
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[21:40] <Upu> dump the GSM
[21:40] <Upu> I will lend you a radio tracker
[21:40] <happil> Well, we're probably going to randomly give out 1-2 bits of the equipment (tracker and GSM)
[21:40] <happil> and camera
[21:40] <Upu> because I know it will be better
[21:40] <Upu> just account for 50g and give me a shout
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[21:41] <happil> Can I ask - how long would a simple tracker take to make?
[21:41] <happil> And get working, functionally
[21:41] <Vaizki> he just offered to give you one on loan :)
[21:41] <Upu> whats your experience with coding ?
[21:41] <jcoxon> making one is the fun part of all this ballooning
[21:42] <happil> Well I know some html and I did some python ages ago.
[21:42] <pc1pcl> kent_hab: how long did you take for your (almost) working tracker?
[21:42] <kent_hab> not long at all
[21:42] <kent_hab> i have a logbook from when i started
[21:42] <kent_hab> let me go find it
[21:43] <jcoxon> all the info is on the wiki, it should take say a weekend to build a tracker
[21:43] <pc1pcl> happil: html is not directly applicable, but you have a head start compared to someone who has no experience with programming so should be a cinch.
[21:43] <jcoxon> (and thats from complete beginners basics)
[21:43] <happil> Oh and I know raspberry pi language..
[21:43] <happil> Although that's useless here.
[21:43] <Vaizki> what is raspberry pi language?
[21:43] <pc1pcl> yeah, I put my proof of concept together in half a day, (and then didn't work on it for months, ;( )
[21:44] <happil> How about habduino?
[21:44] <Vaizki> well upu makes habduino
[21:44] Action: Upu waves
[21:44] <pc1pcl> actually Pi can be a very useful payload.
[21:44] <happil> Wait... Upu you're the maker?
[21:44] <chrisstubbs> kent_hab, did you fix (int)AltitudeGPS ?
[21:44] <kent_hab> can someone confirm i did the HAB_test 1 wizard correctly
[21:44] <Upu> I am
[21:44] <Vaizki> happil: everyone is here
[21:44] <happil> Holy cow... I had no idea
[21:44] <Upu> and the pi in the sky
[21:45] <Upu> though daveake does the code for that one
[21:45] <daveake> >_>
[21:45] <kent_hab> i didnt change it chriss
[21:45] <daveake> better :)
[21:45] <happil> ... man, I worship you
[21:45] <happil> lol
[21:45] <pc1pcl> kent_hab: proof pudding eating, just run the tracker and fldigi again ;)
[21:45] <Upu> wouldn't go that far
[21:45] <happil> I was actually considering buying the habduino
[21:45] <Vaizki> we don't worship upu
[21:45] <Vaizki> we send him money
[21:45] <kent_hab> its working like 3/10 times
[21:45] <Vaizki> and he sends us bits and bobs
[21:45] <Vaizki> and it's aaaalll goood
[21:46] <happil> Upu, how much time would it take to set up and get functional the habduino
[21:46] <chrisstubbs> kent_hab, int will only go up to 32767
[21:46] <Vaizki> habduino? an hour?
[21:46] <kent_hab> im aiming for 28000
[21:46] <kent_hab> for my first try
[21:46] <Upu> 5 mins
[21:46] <chrisstubbs> kent_hab, dont count on that
[21:46] <Upu> then you need to learn how to recieve it
[21:46] <pc1pcl> 2015-03-13 21:46:10,544] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Exception in UKHAS main parse: ValueError: Invalid CRC16-CCITT checksum. [2015-03-13 21:46:10,542] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Selected payload_configuration feb218fd05a90f3e17d39dda5fad25f6 for 'HABUni' [2015-03-13 21:46:10,465] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$HABUni,21:45:51,5553,0.56,00104*2955\n' (d2d67022b5385b85f
[21:46] <pc1pcl> 91e3efadfebf484a4408c3b63f45a5cf31fe86c99ca9060) from HABUni [2015-03-13 21:46:00,942] DEBUG habitat.parser_daemon MainThread: Saved doc 04ef22627b292cf84e0bcb82dfc96d3af8b2cd5ffb135f59dbde0bdbf3d6aa97 successfully }
[21:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HABUni - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HABUni
[21:47] <kent_hab> pc1pc1, what does this mean
[21:47] <kent_hab> ooo im on the map
[21:47] <kent_hab> IM FAMOUS
[21:47] <Vaizki> almost upu'ish
[21:47] <pc1pcl> buried in that gobbledy gook was Invaldi CRC16CCITT checksum.
[21:48] <jcoxon> kent_hab, I'm based in whitstable, so shout when you launch...
[21:48] <Upu> happil have a read of http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1732
[21:48] <pc1pcl> so something stil lgoing wrong a bit there, need to take a closer look at what it calculated and what it should be.
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[21:49] <kent_hab> is it possible the wizard was wrong
[21:49] <kent_hab> from me setting it up
[21:49] <kent_hab> or is this code error
[21:49] <happil> So, how can I receive HABduino signals?
[21:49] <Upu> well you need a radio
[21:49] <happil> I just read the documentation and it seems easy as Pi (lol)
[21:49] <Upu> this can be anything from a £10 SDR dongle to a £1000 amateur radio
[21:49] <happil> £10 SDR dongle sounds good.
[21:49] <pc1pcl> kent_hab: as some of them do work, the payload doc is ok
[21:49] <Upu> though I'd recommend something in the middle like a fun cube dongle
[21:50] <happil> Okay
[21:50] <Vaizki> especially if you have £1500
[21:50] <pc1pcl> if you get 1500 quid from the kickstarter you can get a nice HAM radio ;)
[21:50] <happil> I presume all I have to do,
[21:50] <happil> Is read the UKHAS guide on receiving
[21:50] <happil> Then plug in the radio frequency I got on the habduino
[21:50] <Upu> yes and practice
[21:50] <happil> Practice...?
[21:50] <Upu> and try recieve other peoples flights
[21:50] <Upu> yes practice
[21:50] <happil> How do you do that?
[21:50] <pc1pcl> kent_hab: we'll have to take a closer look at your codeto see what it's doing wrong.
[21:51] <happil> Tune to other frequencies?
[21:51] <Upu> send someone off into some woods with your radio
[21:51] <Upu> then you go find them
[21:51] <Vaizki> get your brother to put the payload on his bike and see how far you can get him on the SDR
[21:51] <Vaizki> etc etc
[21:51] <happil> Wait... I thought the tracker shows a map right?
[21:51] <Upu> if the reciever has an internet connection yes
[21:51] <happil> And how am I supposed to detect the signal from the habduino if the SDR doesn't have a long range?
[21:52] <Vaizki> the SDR has very long range as long as there is line of sight
[21:52] <daveake> line-of-sight
[21:52] <Upu> ok so if you use something that transmits via the UKHAS network
[21:52] <daveake> range in air >>>>> range on ground
[21:52] <Upu> err can be recieved by the UKHAS network
[21:52] <Vaizki> when it drops behind whatever (trees etc) you lose it
[21:52] <happil> But what happens when it lands?
[21:52] <Upu> you won't be the only person recieving it
[21:52] <happil> And how do I connect to this ukhas network?
[21:52] <Upu> also
[21:52] <Upu> you will get a live prediciton of where its likely to land
[21:52] <Vaizki> then you take the last known position and go find the signal near there
[21:52] <Upu> so you can go there
[21:52] <Upu> and be close when it comes down
[21:52] <happil> So basically you wave the aerial around
[21:53] <happil> And when you get a strong signal
[21:53] <happil> You walk towards it
[21:53] <Upu> you got it
[21:53] <happil> OK.
[21:53] <Upu> or just get a string
[21:53] <happil> String?
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[21:53] <kent_hab> pc1pc1, in the string im not required to put my call sign when making the document am i
[21:53] <Vaizki> the tracker sends out a string with coordinates
[21:53] <Upu> telemetry string
[21:53] <kent_hab> i just have time, lat, long, alt
[21:53] <happil> Oh
[21:53] <happil> Where does it send it to?
[21:53] <Upu> like what kent_hab its currently working on
[21:54] <kent_hab> *waves*
[21:54] <pc1pcl> unfortunately I have drop off for a bit as need to be up early tomorrow for some real work.
[21:54] <Vaizki> sends it out to all the people who track hab launches including you
[21:54] <Upu> you can then stick this in something like Locus on your Android and it will point stright to it
[21:54] <Upu> night pc1pcl
[21:54] <kent_hab> thank you for all the help pc1pc1
[21:54] <happil> Ok, well thank you all so much. Upu, looks like I'll be using a habduino if it's ready in time (the new board)
[21:54] <Upu> yeah they are due to ship back to me tommorrow so I think late next week
[21:54] <happil> I can't change the funding goal now, but roughly it should come to the same (even though I have an arduino already :))
[21:55] <Upu> ok so habduino
[21:55] <happil> I hopefully look forward to using radio telemetry and habduino
[21:55] <Upu> fun cube dongle
[21:55] <Upu> antenna
[21:55] <Vaizki> 2 x antenna...
[21:55] <happil> dongle = antenna no?
[21:55] <Upu> £300
[21:55] <Vaizki> no
[21:55] <Upu> balloon £70
[21:55] <Upu> gas £150
[21:55] <happil> 2 hd cameras 300
[21:55] <Upu> you can spend the rest on burgers
[21:55] <Vaizki> parachute
[21:55] <happil> backer rewards 150
[21:55] <Upu> oh yeah
[21:55] <Vaizki> it's known to help
[21:55] <happil> chute 60
[21:55] <Upu> put one of those :)
[21:56] <happil> Wait... I need antenna?
[21:56] <Upu> yes
[21:56] <happil> I thought dongle was antenna
[21:56] <Upu> for the chase car
[21:56] <Upu> no the dongle is a radio reciever
[21:56] <Upu> but it needs an antenna
[21:56] <happil> I gtg... thanks
[21:56] <Vaizki> you want a 433MHz magmount antenna which connects to the dongle
[21:56] <Vaizki> the dongle is radio receiver
[21:56] <Upu> you can use something like a diamond MR-77S for the car
[21:56] <happil> What's the difference?
[21:56] <happil> Why do I need two?
[21:57] <Upu> and if you have budget get a yag for direction finding
[21:57] <happil> I thought it's just a laptop with a funcube attached to the dongle
[21:57] <Upu> MR-77S is an omnidirectional
[21:57] <Upu> yagi is directional
[21:57] <chrisstubbs> funcube == dongle
[21:57] <Vaizki> I said you need 2 antennas because you need to make one for the habduino transmitter
[21:57] <happil> It doesn't have one already?
[21:57] <Upu> don't worry about that
[21:57] <Upu> I supply a bit of wire for you to make one
[21:57] <daveake> You need this: http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/system-1024x813-500x396.jpg
[21:57] <Upu> !wiki payload antenna
[21:57] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Wiki page 03payload_antenna (guides) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payload_antenna
[21:57] <SpacenearUS> 03Upu: Wiki page 03projects:picoatlas:picoatlasi - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas:picoatlasi?s[]=payload&amp;s[]=antenna
[21:58] <Upu> Appreciate there is alot to take in happil
[21:58] <Upu> so just take notes
[21:58] <Upu> absorb it
[21:58] <happil> Ik
[21:58] <Upu> come back and keep asking questions
[21:58] <happil> If I'm to use this instead of spot I've got a lot of work to do
[21:58] <daveake> Some guy wrote a nice guide at http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1732
[21:58] <Upu> use spot as well if you can get one but radio is where its at all WAY more interactive
[21:58] <Vaizki> you can fly the spot if you really want. it shouldn't knacker your habduino.
[21:58] <Upu> just to throw something into the mix
[21:59] <Upu> check out pi in the sky too
[21:59] <Vaizki> just don't tape them together
[21:59] <Upu> linked that already daveake )
[21:59] <Upu> :)
[21:59] <happil> Already saw piinthesky
[21:59] <Upu> we need to put that on the wiki
[21:59] <happil> So wait
[21:59] <happil> I can either make an antenna out of wire
[21:59] <Upu> for the payload
[21:59] <Vaizki> for the transmitter, make it out of wire
[21:59] <Upu> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payload_antenna
[21:59] <happil> Or just plug the same antenna into the dongle as I do the habduino?
[21:59] <Upu> you could do
[22:00] <happil> Does quality/size matter?
[22:00] <Upu> but from a practicality point of view you need something solid on your chase car
[22:00] <happil> i.e. could I use this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/351154923625?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&chn=ps&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108
[22:00] <happil> (from a quick googlesearch)
[22:00] <Upu> yeah
[22:00] <Upu> you could use that
[22:00] <Upu> though for the payload a 1/4 wave would be better
[22:01] <happil> so http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/281610497566?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&chn=ps&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108
[22:01] <Upu> the signal from the balloon is weak you should use the best antenna you can
[22:01] <Upu> again will work but meh
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[22:01] <Upu> anyway I give you an RG174 tail so you can make an antenna
[22:01] <Vaizki> happil: bit of wire with ground plane ( = radial wires at base of antenna)
[22:01] <Upu> for the payload
[22:01] <happil> ok
[22:01] <happil> Well I'll have a think
[22:02] <Upu> do
[22:02] <Upu> take your time
[22:02] <happil> If all goes well and we get funded, I'll do my best to see if I can use a habduino AND a spot
[22:02] <Upu> lots of information to take in
[22:02] <happil> Just in case I mess something up
[22:02] <happil> In the meantime I've got a lot of work to do, and 1200 funding to secure
[22:02] <Upu> http://www.funcubedongle.com/
[22:02] <Upu> for your list
[22:03] <happil> Your help has been much appreciated guys, thank you. Remember just £5 gets your message into space... although that's old news for you guys! (and upu already seen thanks!)
[22:03] <fsphil> aww, that pulseaudio bug is back :(
[22:03] <Upu> just for the record and to be a miserable sod
[22:03] <Upu> its not space
[22:03] <Upu> :)
[22:03] <happil> near space
[22:03] <happil> near space is for the body
[22:03] <happil> space is for the title
[22:03] <happil> ;)
[22:03] <fsphil> only 30% of the way ;)
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[22:04] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/HELIOS%201%20Side%20Camera%20ps.png
[22:04] <fsphil> wonder who made up the term
[22:04] <Upu> still looks good though :)
[22:04] <fsphil> indeed
[22:04] <fsphil> the shadow real?
[22:05] <Upu> think so
[22:05] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/14.07.2012.Launches/vlcsnap-2012-07-14-23h40m01s150.jpg
[22:05] <Upu> pink in space :)
[22:05] <daveake> lol
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[22:05] <daveake> Bought you some more pink card btw
[22:05] <happil> Ok guys. Well thank you all. Please fund if you can and I'll do my best to use Habduino! http://kck.st/1M1TldL
[22:06] <Upu> nps
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[22:06] <daveake> I'll fund if you use a radio
[22:06] <daveake> oh too late
[22:06] <Upu> heh
[22:07] <qyx_> uh, kickstarter for this?
[22:07] <Upu> if he was older than 15 I may have raged but meh
[22:08] <daveake> yeah
[22:08] <daveake> It's better than "$100 for a piece of latex"
[22:08] <daveake> at that rate Babbage should be worth thousands
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[22:17] <Reb-SM0ULC> Upu & daveake: our little guys made it to the national final for "youth research"
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[22:32] <Upu> little guys ?
[22:33] <Vaizki> ok I'm going to sleep before he answers :)
[22:33] <Vaizki> nite&
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[23:12] <kent_hab> night guys - thanks for all the help !
[23:12] <chrisstubbs> Laters kent_hab, good luck!
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[23:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SUSF after 032 days silence - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SUSF
[23:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PS-38 - 12http://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-38
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[00:00] --- Sat Mar 14 2015